Way back in October 2016, Stuart posted about the new Festool PRO 5 LTD random orbital sander, which was just $99. The deal is long gone, but according to a Festool representative, the Pro 5 was just the US and Canadian version of the ETS 125 REQ. It also came with a sample package of Granat abrasives and a voucher for $50 off a future Festool tool purchase.
I ordered one of the Pro 5 LTD kits the same day the article posted (for transparency, ToolGuyd reimbursed me), and had to wait until March 2017 for my Pro 5 LTD to finally arrive. I got around to testing it last week.
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I’m not going to go into detail about the features of this sander*, when and why you’d use it, or how to set it up. I’m going to go straight into my impressions, but that does require a little bit of setup.
*You can get more background in the original deal post: Crazy Sale Pricing on a Festool PRO 5 LTD Sander ($99), But Should You Take the Bait?
First Impressions
I needed a couple of smooth-finished 2x4s, for a project I’m working on that involves another tool I’m reviewing. Rather than do it the fast and easy way with my planer, I thought I’d give the Pro 5 a shot and compare it to the Bosch ROS20VSC I purchased while I was waiting for this sander to ship.
I needed two boards, so I figured I’d pre-sand one with the Festool Pro 5 LTD and the other with the Bosch ROS20VSC. Then after I build the project I can quickly touch up the joints and sand with a higher grit before painting.
The last time I used the Bosch sander was a few months ago, on a cutting board project. Unfortunately I haven’t been able to spend much time on projects lately.
I connected the Pro 5 to my shop vacuum hose, which already had the adapter for the Bosch sander. It turns out the included Festool adapter fits right over the Bosch adapter, and the rubber Festool adapter fits on the Bosch sander. So I just used the Festool adapter on both tools.
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The coarsest grit paper the Pro5 came with was 80 grit Granat paper, otherwise I’d have chosen an even coarser grit. I knew full well that I’d be making a little more work for myself by using 80 grit on some pretty rough SPF lumber — not to mention that it’s probably wetter and sappier than any hardwood or even select pine that you’d normally use with a ROS sander. But, I figured this would give both sanders a workout.
To tell you the truth, I wasn’t impressed with the Pro 5 at first. From all the hype about Festool, I was expecting life changing performance. It seemed to perform about as well as I remembered the Bosch perform. I really didn’t notice any appreciable dust left on the board, although I was sanding on my downdraft table. The Festool felt relatively smooth with only a little vibration. It seemed a little more compact and heavier.
On some of the rougher areas, it wanted to pull away from the direction I was moving it, but not in an uncontrollable way. It really didn’t bog down when I put pressure on it to quickly remove the black-stamped grade marks, but then I didn’t intentionally try to stop it either.
Then I pulled out the Bosch and some other 80 grit paper (the Granat paper doesn’t fit the Bosch of course). At first I was using some really cheap paper that lost its grit after about 2 feet of board. I really didn’t think that was a fair test. So I dug up some better 80 grit paper out of a drawer and finished with that.
All along, I’m noticing a few things. The grip is a bit larger on the Bosch. The sander seems lighter, but the body is definitely wider. Not really any less comfortable, just different. Then I start noticing I’m seeing more dust on the board than I did with the Pro 5. Not a lot, but enough to notice it wasn’t there when using the Pro 5. After a little while, I started noticing the sander was vibrating just a bit more. The more time I spent using it, the more I felt it. When I finished the second 2×4, my hands were just a little numb.
On the plus side, I really didn’t bog down the Bosch when I put pressure on it to remove the stamp marks either. I definitely did notice the Bosch didn’t want to fight me in really rough areas as much as the Festool. That was rare though, both sanders were typically pretty smooth and went were you pushed them with little effort. It may have been a matter of the paper. Maybe the Granat paper remained more aggressive even after using it for a while. It would be nice to be able to test the two sanders with the same paper.
Final Thoughts
The big differentiation between these two sanders is cost. Remember, the Pro 5 LTD isn’t available anymore, so you have to look at the closest available model: the ETS 125 REQ. The ETS 125 REQ runs about $195 while the Bosch ROS20VSC runs about $69. The Bosch can use common sandpaper you find at Home Depot or Lowes, while the Festool requires special paper — unless you use a mesh-type paper.
The big question: is the slightly better dust control and reduced vibration worth the higher cost? It all depends, as both are capable sanders. But if you are using a tool like this everyday, the lower vibration and better dust collection is going to add up over time — less fatigue and less cleanup. If you don’t have as much money to spend, the Bosch is still a good choice.
If you are worried about vibration but don’t want to pay more, the vibration of the Bosch is easily mitigated by wearing gloves. I find that I can go for as long as I need to without my hands getting numb if I have decent gloves — the plus side is I get fewer splinters too.
Compensating for dust collection is a little harder, but I usually sand over a down draft table which keeps any airborne dust to a minimum.
Buy Now (Bosch ROS20VSC via Amazon)
Buy Now (Festool ETS 125 REQ via AceTool)
Note: The ETS 125 doesn’t seem to be available anywhere right now, and the ETS 125 REQ looks to be coming soon.
Stuart’s Note: A lot of Festool tools aren’t as “just grab and go” as other tools. My understanding is that the ETS 125 and Pro 5 are more finish sanders than general do-everything models.
fred
Thanks for your impressions. I bought one too – arrived in late-February – sitting in its box – waiting on being wrapped up as a Christmas present. I used the $50 coupon to buy the recipient a dust extractor before the Festool annual price increase – it didn’t go a long way on that – but $50 is better than nothing.
When I’m using construction lumber for a project where the surface quality is important, I usually give it a light pass on each face through the jointer – then sand if I need to (maybe to break the edges).
ShawnB
Always a safe bet to go with the cheapest available tool if you’re the type that isn’t interested in things like stroke length, sandpaper characteristics, and the other minutiae of selecting the appropriate tool for the job.
fred
To one of ShawnB’s points – when I saw some of the blurbs about the Granat paper when it was released – they intimated that it was designed for sanding hard finishes – particularly some of the low VOC finishes (I surmised that they might have been talking about finishes used in Europe). While some of the abrasives sold at HD might try to convince you of their all-purpose nature, the choice of paper for pre-finishing surface prep (e.g. bare wood) can be quite a bit different from your choice for removing finishes. Maybe your comparison might have been slightly different using a Festool Rubin or Brilliant disc.
Benjamen
Yeah, in some of the literature they talk about Granat originally being for finishes, but they do expressly say that they are now recommending it as an all purpose paper including use on wood and plastic.
I didn’t want to focus on the sandpaper in the post, but interestingly the Granat paper gummed up a little bit in several areas, the crappy Masterforce? (whatever cheap Menards brand I used first) lost it’s grit around the outside almost instantly, while the Diablo paper I ultimately used lost some of its grit, but didn’t gum up.
RC Ward
Sounds about right , way more money for a slight better tool, that about sums it up. If you have the money great if not? Well you know the answer.
John S
I don’t think this is sufficiently fair comparison as the Pro 5 LTD has stroke length of 5/64″ whereas the Bosch is 3/32″ orbit diameter, 3/64″ orbit radius. A similar stroke length (not to mention the obvious differences in sanding disk) would at least from this evaluation you did tend to point to less of any advantages of going with the Festool.
Benjamen
I could be wrong, but as far as I can tell stroke length and orbit diameters are analogs….so 6/64″ vs 5/64″ The Festool is actually 2mm, which is slightly larger than 5/64″
It seems to make sense if you look at how far a grain on the sandpaper moves in one direction that number is going to be diameter not radius.
2.5A motor on the Bosch vs a 250W (about 2.1A) on the Festool. That’s within 20%
To be totally fair maybe I could have used something like the new Diablo SandNet but that needs an adapter which could change the dust collection.
Any recommendations for a sander that is a fair comparison to the Festool?
John S
Hope it didn’t come off as critical, I think the comparison you did ended out getting us the answer that there isn’t such a leap in change to justify the price difference as the difference is pretty small alone anyway. On paper at least, and from what I’ve been always told, the Pro 5 and ETS 125/3 are their “fine” sanders while the Bosch model is a mid level more “do everything” more aggressive powerful model than a fine would suggest. Unfortunately there may not be a proper equivalent in 5 inch because on aggressiveness alone I’d imagine it would be ETS 150/5 as I don’t see a ETS 125/5 and that 150 is a 6 inch. Maybe it would be closer 6 inch Festool to 6 inch Bosch models.
Paul Sprague
The Bosch is not a terrible sander. Remember though this is the entry-level sander for Festool. There are much better Sanders available from this great company. If you are a weekend warrior and you only use the sander once every two or three months then by all means get the cheaper one and live with the dust and vibration. As Stewart said you can wear gloves and you can possibly sand outside. If you are a woodworker who makes a living with these tools or uses them often then the price difference is not very much when you consider the added safety factor of breathing clean air. Yeah it’s $120 higher but have you priced a set of lungs lately? Wood dust can and does cause many respiratory problems including lung cancer. Vibration isn’t a comfort thing. Vibration causes serious nerve damage and other problems. If you are sanding for any extended period of time, on a regular basis, you deserve much better than box store sanders.
Andrew LB
The bosch sander is also their entry level ROS. I own the bosch and use it exclusively with Mirka Autonet mesh discs and hooked up to a Rigid 14 gallon 6hp shop vacuum and the dust collection is amazing. You only get some residual dust when using normal 8 hole sanding discs with that little Bosch.
As for lung cancer. There is no direct link between wood dust and lung cancer according to an analysis of 85 scientific publications on the subject.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26403531
The number of additional hours you end up working in order to purchase a festool sander would offset any benefit from the negligible dust reduction benefit of their sanders.
Paul Sprague
Sorry guys I don’t know why I said Stewart. I did read the article and it does clearly state that it was Ben??
Mike
The first time I picked up a Festool I was shocked cheap it felt in my hands and it was there top of the line jigsaw, it just felt cheaply made and it’s ergonomics was the worst of any pro jigsaw I ever used
Reflector
I’d argue some of the Festools I’ve handled at stores always felt “worse” in ergonomics. The Carvex does definitely “feel cheap” in the body plastics compared to my Mafell AND my 12V Bosch and I’d argue about the guides since even Bosch had auto setting carbide guides that worked with the ejection from over two or three decades ago. The strobe isn’t for me and the auto speed really, really isn’t for me since I actually find that cutting at slower speeds in wood with a constant feed pressure (Translating to rate) with the orbital at the right setting in the Mafell provides a really, really smooth cut comparable to a fine finish circular saw blade.
I do like the Pro 5, but the ergonomics are worse than the ROS20. The Pro 5 is lighter but the square body (No body grip like the Bosch) sucks. Less vibration too, but at the Pro 5 price its worth it. At the current ETS125 REQ price? …Pass. If you told me someone fit the Pro 5’s internals into a ROS20 and kept the pad of the ROS20 but also left in the air vents to the center so I could just hole punch any normal sandpaper or mount Abranet/Diablo Mesh with a protector? I’d pay 100 for that. Maybe 120. I’d skip on the Festool Plug It system however, it feels vastly inferior to the Neutrik connector system once you use it.
Alexander
You can shut off the strobe. And because of licensing deals the P1 and the Carvex are effectively the same tool.
Reflector
The Carvex isn’t even close to the Mafell, the mechanics are different, especially for the clamping mechanism and the lack of guides on the Mafell. I’ve found that its in a “league of its own.”
ktash
You could also get the Bosch ROS65VC-6 6-Inch Pad Rear-Handle Random Orbit Sander with Vibration Control for $229, just a bit more money than the Festool 125 sander. It may or may not be as good with the dust control, but the Bosch is very good for vibration control. I’ve used both and found the Bosch to have better vibration control. I do wear gloves with either one due to hand issues. Plus the 6-inch sander is faster, so less sanding=less overall vibration.
Alexander
The reason I switched to Festool was for longevity. I sand a lot of drywall (among other things) and all other sanders I’ve tried have end up burning up/ gumming up in the end. Plus dust extraction was starting to become a necessity in the level of clients I was procuring. Now I don’t really even think about it. Although buying my first Festool was a leap (cost wise) now I couldn’t really afford not to own them. My wife doesn’t really appreciate the cost but she sure loves the CT and the fact that she doesn’t have to cleanup as much as she used to. And my clients love the fact that their house isn’t filled with dust after finishing a project. My Bosch orbital has now become my loaner.
Alick
Can you guys in the USA get products from MIRKA ? The best finishing discovery I ever made was Mirka abranet mesh abrasives. Whether on a hand sanding block with an extraction hose or an air / electric ROS they seem to transform the performance of any tool with excellent cutting, superb extraction and longevity. The quality of their air and electric tools ( the yellow ones) is absolutely top class. I think better than festool …
Stuart
Yes, they’re available on Amazon. I also recently spotted a Diablo version at Home Depot.
Alick
Ahh, yes. You can get the DEROS sander too 🙂
I wish I could afford that kit. Work anywhere and have almost nothing to clean up afterwards !
I had one of their air powered units on loan for an industrial trial once. The paint shop guys loved it.
fred
We had almost exclusively used air sanders (like Dotco and Hutchins ) in a production environment – but I know my ex-compatriots recently bought a Mirka sander (the kind that is 110V-AC powered via the vacuum hose/extension cord) – and have been raving about it.
It might be this one:
https://www.amazon.com/Mirka-Deros-MID650-912-5-Dust-Free-System/dp/B01FRGX6MK
Alick
Maybe you can borrow it if you ever need to (say) refinish your dining table 🙂 Wouldn’t even need to move it to the workshop.
Rob
It’s really easy to get Mirka sandpaper in my area, as long as it says “Festool” written on it. ?
Abranet is easy to come by in 5″ or 6″ discs, locally, but while offered by online vendors, the expanded range takes weeks to get in stock. It outlasts everything, but it also leaves my stock pads a mess.
There used to be a lot of Mirka Gold in my neck of the woods, but since Festool brought Granat into the equation, the wood and paint shops have mostly dropped Mirka for Festool. It’s a distribution/availability/ease of ordering thing.
As far as retail options are concerned, I mix Festool, Mirka, Norton,
and Klingspor and am like: whatever dude. ?
Granat really shines in the higher grits (wayo).
Nathan
I think a few things made it out of your review. I know I shouldn’t bother spending the money on a festool since I don’t have and will never own a down draft sanding table.
that aside though – I think one of the other bits is the subtle differences is probably equally tied up in your paper. Ok so power wise they are the same – one is slightly heavier while more compact. Makes a bit of sense that it wouldn’t walk as much.
I think there is alot to be said for the paper choice – Like tires on a car – all the forces are there at that interface. so cutting ability, vibrations, dust etc. paper choice is a big part of that. I need to try one of these mesh jobs I guess.
Luis Soria
I use the cheaper version of the “Abranet” brand, it’s called “Autonet”, also made by Mirka; in Finland…
And the Mirka Deros, oh boy… At least I’m happy with my pneumatic Elite 3M ROS, in 6 inches flavor.
CochainComplex
I would definitely go for Festool – they are expensive but they last away longer than Bosch Prof. Any Professional carpenter here over in Germany would give you this advice. Especially when it comes to woodworking tools.