Which is the BEST woodworking tool and machinery brand? Let’s talk about it.
To me, woodworking tools and machinery encompasses floor-standing equipment such as drill presses, table saws, planers, band saws, and similar, and also benchtop equivalents. I suppose miter saws might also be included.
I think the biggest differentiator is that these are the types of tools that you bring your work to – think router table vs handheld router, or table saw vs track saw.
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An interesting reader question came in a few weeks ago, and I’ve been giving some thought about how to approach it.
Jasper asked:
I would love to see content on larger tool options and companies. For example I have been wanting to buy a woodworking bandsaw for a while and I am close to pulling the trigger on Harvey Woodworking HW615P. I am put off but the companies random pricing policy. The price varies from $1999 to $2999 day to day, just why!
I don’t understand the desire to gamify the shopping experience. It gives me a bad taste for the company being reputable, as you contrast it with SawStop (almost!) never having sales.
There are many other options, Jet, Laguna, Powermatic, Grizzly etc. Seems like lots are made by same factories and painted different colors with a few tweaks. Some honest journalistic content on this like you have done on hand tool manufacturers would be great.
I think it’s best to split this into two parts. First, we’ll talk about as bunch of different brands, with summarizing thoughts and opinions. I’ll then share a couple more thoughts before delving into my understanding about what’s going on with tool brands and retailers “gamifying” the shopping experience.
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Summarizing Thoughts About Major Woodworking Tool Brands
JET
Specialty: None?
Our Take: I tend to see Jet as a lower cost alternative to Powermatic, which is part of the same company.
I purchase a Jet dust extractor, and it’s decent. By decent, I mean it’s extremely flimsy, but I couldn’t find anything better for the price.
I have two Jet air cleaners. The smaller one was long-discontinued and abandoned, but I can still find replacement filters for the larger one – for now.
I don’t see Jet as the “that’s the one I want!” brand, it’s more of a “that’s what I can afford” type of choice.
They sent over a benchtop jointer for review, and a portable dust separator. The separator was… let’s just say that a retailer had a huge Black Friday sale, and I declined to mention it anywhere. The benchtop jointer is well-made, but its high price and smaller capacity has kept me from being able to recommend it.
Every time I consider another Jet purchase, online user reviews have steered me away.
I worry that much of their consumer-accessible equipment is designed and manufactured to a price point.
Grizzly
Specialty: Broad options.
Our Take: I have yet to purchase any Grizzly tools, but I have researched them heavily over the years.
Every time I look at Grizzly, the consensus seems to be that they’re “hit or miss.”
I’ve heard that Grizzly has great customer service, but also that you’ll either need to be in contact with them, or will have to put time and effort into truing up or repairing a new purchase.
Grizzly has a lot of options, and it’ll take some work to sort through which of those options are worth buying and which should be avoided.
I feel that Grizzly could be a good starting point.
Harvey
Specialty: Hype.
Our Take: There are a couple of Harvey products and table saw accessories on my wishlist.
I considered picking up a Harvey table saw, but didn’t hear the best things about their customer service.
At the start of the pandemic, Harvey marketed their Gyro air cleaner as “a natural enemy of Coronavirus.”
Looking at their website, Harvey looks to be great at selling tools. It remains to be seen whether they’re good at making and supporting them.
Harvey Tools always seems to be running flash sales – track the price for a while and never pay full price.
When I say that Harvey specializes in hype, that’s not necessarily a bad thing. They make very convincing arguments about many of their tools and products. Their tools are well-presented in a way that strongly suggests in-house attention to design, development, manufacturing, and marketing.
They know how to sell tools, something I can’t say about all of the other brands also discussed here.
User reviews tend to be mixed, which continues to be a major source of my hesitation towards the brand.
Laguna
Specialty: Band saws?
Our Take: I bought a Laguna band saw a few years back, and the first one arrived destroyed. The second was fine, but the resaw blade I bought made pinging sounds. Laguna’s customer service was extremely helpful, and walked me through troubleshooting before replacing it.
I’ve considered ordering another Laguna tool, and also a SuperMax drum sander, but reviews steered me away.
I asked questions about their new band saw launch late last year, and most of my questions went unanswered.
I feel that Laguna has almost entirely shifted focus towards their CNC business.
Their band saws still seem to have a strong following, with the online community consensus informing and influencing my decision a few years ago. I have not seen much love for the rest of their “classic machinery” products.
Maksiwa
Specialty: Sliding panel saws?
Our Take: I first learned about Maksiwa when looking to buy a table saw.
Maksiwa is still largely unknown in the USA, and my interest waned after I read somewhere that they mostly rebrand imported equipment, similar to well-known brands already widely available here. I’m not sure if that’s accurate, but I also haven’t seen any reasons to shortlist this brand ahead of many of the others discussed here.
Nova
Specialty: Lathes, digital drill press.
Our Take: Nova sent a lathe test sample a few years ago, and it was good, but somewhat unremarkable. I felt that its build quality and performance wasn’t up to the hype I’d been led to believe. It didn’t
I purchased one of their smart drill presses, and it was good, except for an out-of-the-box defective gear rack for the table height adjustment.
Nova’s customer service didn’t seem to understand the problem with the drill press, deeply frustrating me, but ultimately sent a replacement rack that was slightly different in size, shape, and design. It’s been working okay since then, but the hassle left me with a weird aftertaste.
Powermatic
Specialty: None?
Our Take: Powermatic has a reputation as being THE woodworking tool and machinery company, but that reputation has been eroded.
The online consensus is that Powermatic tools are overpriced and overhyped for what they deliver, and aren’t the “gold standard” that they used to be.
I purchased a jointer, and it’s okay. I considered other purchases, but again, user reviews steered me away.
The company has been really pushing their “ArmorGlide” low-friction coating, but I can’t help but feel this is something that was added to their tools’ cast iron wood-movement surfaces just for the sake of differentiation, or maybe to help justify some of the price increases in recent years.
Don’t buy Powermatic tools at full price – there are semi-annual sales and discounts.
Rikon
Specialty: None?
Our Take: Rikon doesn’t have a lot of distinctions. I haven’t heard much about their tools in recent years, but still keep in mind positive things I heard a few years back about their benchtop tools.
SawStop
Specialty: Table saws.
Our Take: I went back and forth between several brands of sliding table saws and traditional cabinet saws, and ultimately went with SawStop.
I was all but set on a sliding table saw.
I didn’t want to buy a SawStop – I feel their table saws are greatly over-priced, simply because they’re the only brand with flesh detection and active injury mitigation technology.
Ultimately, I realized that it’s good to buy a well-supported tool that also has strong community support. If there’s a problem and customer support is closed due to it being a weekend or after-hours, there’s a greater chance I can find some helpful info online.
I had been talking with SawStop about securing a cabinet saw review sample for TWO YEARS. Once I realized SawStop would be the most suitable right-now solution, I pulled out my ToolGuyd credit card.
I had received two portable table saw test samples before that, and was already familiar with SawStop’s exceptionally good setup instructions and user manuals. They also have among the best packaging and freight delivery I’ve ever experienced.
I had a problem with the wooden table saw extension being too warped and out-of-spec, and they replaced it after some quick troubleshooting and photo documentation on my part.
They also gave me some advice on how to buff out the uneven lip in the cast iron table joint that was scraping away at the t-glide fence every time it passed.
SawStop had the most knowledgeable pre-purchase and post-purchase support of any woodworking tool and machinery company I have ever spoken with. SawStop also carries a wide range of replacement parts.
If or when SawStop starts launching other types of woodworking tools, and they put the same energy into it as with their cabinet saws, they’re going to greatly upset the status quo.
Felder Hammer
Specialty: European-style machinery.
Our Take: There were two tools on my wishlist, a Hammer sliding table saw, and a combination jointer-planer.
I ultimately went with a Powermatic jointer, and a SawStop table saw.
Everything I’ve read over time suggests that purchasing Hammer equipment is a very involved process, one where you need to talk to sales people and have to be very specifically about add-ons, accessories, features, and so-forth.
There are benefits to Hammer machines, but you’re going to pay dearly for it.
I also saw a couple of reviews that steered me away, including one that discussed the hassle it took for the company to replace a part that was defective/damaged from the start and not obvious during setup.
I don’t have the patience or risk tolerance to purchase Hammer machinery just yet.
Vevor
Specialty: None
Our Take: Nope.
Additional Commentary
When shopping for woodworking tools or equipment, it seems that – based on user reviews and community opinions – one must look for the least-worst option, rather than the best.
That is, I have often found that there is no “best” brand in any particular woodworking machinery category, just the ones with less potential for problems than some of the others.
There are so many complaints about nearly every brand and every product. When you’ve found one that hasn’t been panned online, that’s because it’s either new, unpopular, or unheard of.
It’s discouraging to read about say a drum sander and find that a user encountered an early defect that took months to remedy. That next user could be you.
Build quality, reliability, and customer service are all important.
I’ve purchased equipment from a couple of brands, and so far none of them are perfect in any regard.
It’s not even that you can pay more for better tools or a better experience. The industry, at least concerning consumer-accessibly equipment, is still very price-conscious, leading to different compromises depending on the brand, type of tool, or specific model.
A few years ago I wrote about how some tools are identical aside from brand and color. See also: The Benchtop Power Tool Clones Conundrum.
There’s some rebranding in the woodworking machinery space, but not as much when talking about higher-priced floor-standing models as with benchtop tools.
What’s up With the Pricing?
A lot of woodworking tools and machines tend to be discretionary purchases.
Individual woodworkers, whether hobbyists or small businesses and creators, also tend to be price-conscious.
Let’s say I have decided to upgrade my table saw. I’ve saved up the cash and can buy a saw any day now. A 10% or 15% sale, or a free accessory upgrade promo might just be what it takes to drive a consumer to complete a purchase.
Other times, a good promotion might be just the thing to convince you to pick up a new piece of equipment.
This Stanley 4-in-1 mini screwdriver is just $2.49 at Home Depot with free shipping. It’s a great tool for casual users, or tossing into the kitchen junk drawer for household device battery changes and similar.
$2.49 with free shipping.
How many readers do you think are going to buy this? 1? 10? 50? Of those, how many were looking to buy a 4-in-1 pocket screwdriver today?
Jet and Powermatic have semi-annual deals. Harvey ALWAYS has a flash sale of some kind. SawStop has annual “free with purchase” promos and recently kicked off an extremely rare money-off discount.
Felder/Hammer occasionally advertise different promos.
The higher the investment, whether we’re talking about price, floorspace, time, or a combination of these things, the longer it takes for consumers to reach a purchasing decision.
Often, a discount can influence that purchasing decision. Sometimes it will start the process, seeding an idea for a future upgrade in a woodworker’s mind, other times it will hasten it. A promo might sway a consumer’s choice of brand or model.
The purchase cycle for $1000+ machinery is going to very different from a $2.49 screwdriver that almost anyone can use in their home or workshop.
The Harvey band saw that the reader asked about? It’s $1949 right now, plus freight. That’s likely the price it was designed to sell at, not $2999.
Brands and retailers might “gamify” the purchase experience with occasional deals, promos, and rollercoaster pricing because it works.
The Overall BEST Woodworking Tool Brand?
I have purchased a drill press, band saw, air filters, a dust collector, jointer, router table, and table saw, and received test samples of a lathe, benchtop jointer, and other benchtop tools.
I have researched all of these tools, plus planers, combination jointer-planers, sliding table saws, drum sanders, spindle sanders, probably every type of air filter and dust extractor on the market, and maybe a few other types of equipment.
Thus far, I’d say that Laguna had exceptionally good customer service, based on the one time I needed them, and SawStop delivered the best customer experience so far.
There are few woodworking tools I’d purchase from any of these brands without hesitations. I think it’s just the nature of these types of tools. I assume things are different once you rise above consumer and cost-conscious small-shop woodworking machinery tiers and enter no-compromise “you’ll pay whatever we charge” industrial equipment territory.
Frank D
Mmmmm. Best?
I think most people like value and several of those brands could earn my or other people’s money and workshop space rather easily; but one brand in particular that was mentioned; has burned its chances for me.
JasonG
I initially read the end of the third paragraph about SawStop as “active injury *litigation* technology”…
Brian
Harvey is a nightmare, and I’ll never buy from them again. The tool I got was so defective I had to return it – and it had been advertised as 30 day money back guarantee, so was I fine? No. The return was a major hassle, and they did not refund the ship (which was never mentioned in their ad) so at the end I was out $150 and about 10 hours of my time. Bad tool and terrible customer service. They do have a small army of paid YouTube influencers to shout you down if you mention how bad they are, if that’s your thing.
Sawstop has great saws and service, my Rikon bandsaw is great as is my Jet planer/jointer (no issues so I can’t say how their customer service is). My old Shopsmith served me well for years, and you can get them real cheap 2nd hand.
IronWood
I have a Jet Xacta cabinet saw and it is excellent. There is a distributor of JPW brands in Seattle that carries new unused surplus equipment and I got the saw almost half off. Best shop purchase I’ve made. Powermatic’s quality has dropped, but their prices have gotten crazy. I like a lot of Laguna stuff, but have also used a larger bandsaw that just never seemed well designed. SawStop makes a good saw, but I’ve had problems with them in heavy use industrial settings, they cost too much, and I don’t like the company. Grizzly is better than they’ve been in the past, but still feel discount to me. Best bet for a lot of things is still old US steel: Delta, Powermatic in green paint, etc.
fred
I bought (new from a local distributor) my band saw, cabinet saw, jointer, and drill press together in the 1970’s. I went with Delta (then part of Rockwell International the aerospace conglomerate). I had learned to use a Unisaw in HS shop – so the whole left tilt right tilt thing steered me away from Powermatic. Both brands were considered professional (but perhaps a tier below industrial) quality – and you paid accordingly. My Unisaw was over $1000 delivered. Equipping my shop with those 4 tools cost about what I paid for my new Oldsmobile. So, today’s prices on much shop equipment seems low by comparison. If my Unisaw was about 1/3 the price of a well-equipped new car – by today’s pricing – a Hammer K3 saw at $6600 seems like a bargain compared to cars and wages.
The idea that all old USA-made iron was great – is also more nostalgia than truth. My Delta bandsaw was OK – but I like the Laguna that I replaced it with much more. The Delta sliding table that I bought, some years later on, for my Unisaw was expensive, poorly designed and just functional.
I did have a good experience some years ago with buying and restoring some “heavy iron.” That was with an old Walker-Turner radial -arm drill press. It was acquired at a good price after some careful inspection. Having the means to pick it up and transport it helped convince me. But if I had known how much work would was going to be expended into restoring it – I might have passed on the bargain. So, buying an old Unisaw, can be a good deal – but be sure you know what you might be getting into.
Chris S
I had a NOVA DVR3000 lathe that was almost perfect (except for the control panel that felt delicate and speed adjustments were slow).
I sold it to make room for this:
https://rikontools.com/product/model-70-3040-30-x-40-vsr-lathe-with-sliding-bed/
What a beauty.
I’m waiting on woodcraft to do a 20% off deal like last year. $4K is way better than $5K.
Christopher Haley
A note on Grizzly: some of their tools are made in Taiwan and some in China. When I was considering a table saw, I talked with Grizzly customer service and the rep made it very clear that there is major quality difference between the made-in-Taiwan tools and made-in-China tools. So, in a sense, I consider Grizzly products as two companies: Taiwan Grizzly and China Grizzly. I’d buy no reservations from the former (I’ve had the saw many years now, perfectly happy with it; no issues), but the latter is just a toss-up among all the other made-in-China brands.
As simplistic as this may seem, one of the main things to look for when comparing is just the weight of the tool. Again, coming from Grizzly: heavier tools tend to be better tools, not just because they are heavier, of course, but because of what makes them heavier–larger motors, studier parts, etc. The Grizzly rep said a lot of these differences don’t show up on the spec sheet, but they show up in the weight.
MM
I have a few Grizzly machines personally and I’ve worked with others–metalworking machines in my old university’s machine shop, as well as woodworking machines owned by friends. In my experience they tended to fall into either of two categories: excellent value for money, or utter junk. I never bothered to track down if the explanation was Taiwan vs. Chinese manufacture but that would certainly explain things. I have observed that many of Grizzly’s tools came from the same factory as other well known brands even down to minute details on the castings. I will also say that Grizzly has fantastic customer service and their parts availability is very good. I have an older Grizzly 12″ 5HP table saw. Once my business partner was moving it and accidentally dropped it off the forklift, the impact caused one of the castings in the blade tilt mechanism to break when it fell. Grizzly had a replacement out to us in just a couple days even though that model of saw had been discontinued a few years before the incident happened. I’ve had that saw for about 20 years now. The paint on the cabinet isn’t the greatest but mechanically it’s been rock solid.
I would not hesitate to buy from Grizzly in the future, if the product arrives and I think it’s crap then I will get a refund.
Alex
Brands to add:
1. Oliver Machinery (a good brand in my eyes, but don’t have any of their tools)
2. Cutech – has spiral head planers and jointers that are regarded as good value (again, I don’t have any, but have read good things)
My experience with Jet: My 1221VS lathe had an issue with the speed control electronics. A replacement circuit board is $300! To make matters worse, it also wasn’t available anywhere. I see that it is available now, but still absurdly expensive. When I tried to call Jet to try to diagnose my issue to see if the board even needed to be replaced, I could not even get ahold of a human being. I then read horror stories about Jet customer service online and vowed to never buy Jet/Powermatic ever again.
fred
We had an Oliver Straight Line Rip Saw in our cabinet shop. I’d recommend it – but it is no longer made. They do sell a laser upgrade for it at a pricey $1700
https://olivermachinery.net/straight-line-rip-saw-laser-for-models-4910-4920
Stewart
I just bought a bench top lathe from Grizzly and I am very pleased with it- it’s nothing fancy, but it has digital speed control, 12 inch turning capacity and an 18 inch bed, all for $400. I can add to the bed length 22 inches for $100 when I’m ready. It’s well made, whisper quiet and was a breeze to set up- I’m very happy with it.
eddiesky
I was about to get a Harvey bandsaw (yes, I’m aware they are Chinese company, just like Vevor) as Stumpynubs really stands behind their Ambassador model and 14″. I mean, the numbers look good and specs. And this is first time (here) I am reading negatives, mostly on customer service. My other option was Laguna or Rikon since I need this for resaw/woodworking.
If Toolguyd did a Fantasy Woodshop build… I would pick a Sawstop cabinet saw, the Harvey bandsaw and filtration, Nova drill press, Hammer planer/jointer, Jet sanders, my pop’s old Radial arm saw, a Festool miter saw, a Grizzly/shopfox mortiser, and Powermatic shaper.
kent_skinner
I no longer trust anything Stump Nubs reps. It seems like all of content is now reviews that are paid for.
Not saying he’s dishonest, but something changed in the last 18 months or so. No more building stuff – just tool “reviews” and thinly veiled ads.
Just my opinion, and you should believe who you want.
Stuart
I’ve noticed a stark difference in his content as well, and told myself it is likely an (understandable) effort to appease YouTube’s algorithm. Or at least that’s the least-worse possible explanation I could think of.
kent_skinner
Perhaps he’s just burned out. I’m sure that making content for a living is a grind. He had (has?) a number of employees and was running a small business that made video content.
He seems like a nice guy, and I learned from him over the years. I wish him well, even as a I hope for a return to what he used to do.
Craig
I totally agree. I wouldn’t put it so nicely though. I find him snarky in the comments and deceptive in the videos in my opinion. I’ll never watch his channel again
CMF
I have been following ToolGuyd since around 2012-2011. (was searching a product on Google, which TG came up in the results, but it was an old article from 2012. I read it quickly for the fun of it and low & behold, I had written a comment!)
Your reading negatives here, about customer service; I cannot speak to. But with everything, I check peoples review and comments from a variety of blogs, forums and videos, as opinions can vary on each site.
TG, in my opinion has fewer pros or trades people and more diy’ers than other websites. I would say a good part of the community is on the nerd side; not meant as a slight as I consider myself more nerd than anything else.
Never rely on one source. Stuart’s reporting is excellent, which is probably why I have followed him for so many years. His commentary, editorial opinions and reviews, I find are sometimes lacking objectivity or proper background experience, but everyone’s opinion has some value.
Many on this commentary/forum, often follow whatever Stuart’s viewpoint is. Many Lowes and Makita haters, at least more than other sites I frequent.
If you heard bad things about Harvey CS in many places, I would be worried. If jut on one site, in this instance TG (but could be any one site), I would still go ahead if I was really high on that Ambassador model. ( follow Stumpy, he is good, but not perfect either. Hard for anyone to be perfect)
Stuart
I think Harvey Tool has interested designs, but I have heard enough negativity to give me pause. But again, I’ve heard about or experienced negativity with almost every other woodworking machine brand.
I want an excellent ordering and delivery process, protective packaging, great build quality, high reliability, a helpful assembly and user manual, and the ability to connect with someone that knows the tools and can get me replacement parts, components, or troubleshooting fix as quickly as possible. From what I’ve heard and experienced, no single brand does all this.
One thing to point out is that Harvey is also an OEM, which means they’re also producing tools for other brands.
I think Harvey is trending upwards, and will continue to do so.
About subjectivity, I’ve got strong opinions, and tend to feel compelled to make them known where appropriate. Everyone should have a good idea of how I feel about any particular brand or retailer. Maybe I should instead cherry pick what I share, but that’s never been how I do things.
Hal A
I’ve been buying Bora Portamate 3500 rolling tool bases for years when they were ‘reasonably’ priced at around $129. Lately, you can’t find the under $160. So I thought I’d try the Vevor knock-off.
What a mistake. Poorly made, out of true, so it wouldn’t roll and just cheap.
With that experience, I won’t purchase anything made by Vevor.
fred
I bought 3 Vevor 6-tonne machinery skates and 2 Jet toe jacks last year.
I needed to move my radial-arm drill press. The 2 Toe Jacks worked as expected. Two of the 3 skates had rollers come off (almost immediately) during the move. I ended up visiting my ex-compatriots and borrowing some Jung skates. I sent the Vevor ones back to Amazon. I wasn’t expecting them to be high quality at their $45 ea. price point – but thought 3 could handle a load that was about 10% of their individual rating moving along a smooth surface. I would not buy anything Vevor again.
Bonnie
I think the core takeaway is that there is no such thing as a “best brand”. Each brand will have individual tools they tend to be the most competive in, and ephemerals like customer experience/support. There’s zero reason to stick to a particular color/name when building out a shop.
Personally, I’d say each company has a few stellar points.
Jet: Their midi and mini-lathes are consistently great for their pricepoint, and one of the most common first “real” lathes woodworkers buy for good reason.
Grizzly: Similarly, they’re right at the price/performance point to be the a first step into the big-leagues of cast-iron stationary tools: particularly their 15″ Planer, Jointers, and table saws (though these are becoming less and less appealing over competition), though their delta-clone bandsaws were also popular for awhile. I think Jet was purposefully moved down-market by JPW to compete with Grizzly, and they’ve done a decent job of that.
Powermatic: Their fit and finish is still excellent, even as the competition has increased. But I agree that they no longer have a real singular standout flagship product.
Harvey: They’re gimmicky, but they’ve got some unique tools that solve problems others haven’t tackled. I know a few woodworkers who love their gyro DC because they have constrained shops without the headroom for a traditional cyclone or the ability to put one outside the shop itself.
Laguna: I think you’re spot on here Stuart. They used to be the big fancy name in bandsaws, but they’ve since fallen to merely very good and just don’t seem to care about the traditional market. Their drum sander used to be pretty unique, but competition from Jet and Grizzly have sapped a lot of their appeal there.
Rikon: Benchtop bandsaws and slow-speed grinders. They also have one of the better entry-level dust collectors, though I know a few woodworkers on a budget ended up buying the better Rikon impeller as a part and just swapping it into the near identical housing of Harbour Freight’s model. Other than that they almost feel like an OEM playing at being a full brand these days.
Sawstop: They’re the only player in the game for proper tablesaw safety. Thankfully they also have good fit-and-finish and a rare customer focus, but you pay a premium for that. It’s going to be very interesting to see how their Festool ownership evolves.
Peter
I am in the market so what is the apr and perks on a Toolguyd credit card?
😉
bwh
Jet is the most awful manufacturer I’ve tried.
Bandsaw motor died a month inside the warranty. Barely been used a half dozen times at that point. Jet said they could send someone out, but it will take a month. Okay, waited six weeks and called to find out what the delay was and they said it’s outside of warranty so they won’t help.
Meanwhile the spindle sander is truly the dumbest design off all time. The spinning tightens the spindle to the point that even Hercules couldn’t remove it, so changing spindles is impossible. The tiny, pathetic wrenches they provide are utterly worthless as well. It required dry ice and an insane amount of elbow grease to remove. Never again.
Oh and then there’s the issue of their air cleaner catching fire. https://www.finewoodworking.com/forum/very-scary-jet-air-filtration-afs-1000b
Yet again, jet gives no support and just kind of shrugs that problems exist.
DRT42
I have two Jet bandsaws, and no problems. The only annoyance to date was totally my fault – I loosened the wrong screws during a blade change and screwed up the tracking on the larger bandsaw. It took me a while to get it back in adjustment.
I also own the small Jet 42×2 three wheel sander that seems to get mediocre reviews, but again, mine is not only fine – I love the thing! I use it so much that I have considered buying a second one, except they are definitely overpriced.
William
Another major tool brand is Shop Fox. Its a sister brand to Grizzly, similar to Jet/Powermatic. I just bought a new 3hp Shop Fox shaper and wasn’t terribly impressed by it. It will work for our needs, but if I was buying it for a real workhorse I’d have been disappointed. Paint was peeling off of surfaces, poor/course adjustments with lots of slop and too much play in the fence. But at the deal I got, $1,500, I’m happy.
Maksiwa specializes in cabinetry tools. They have a decent entry level edgebander, a line boring machine, and sliding table saws.
I’ve found you generally get what you pay for with tool brands when there’s competition in the marketplace. That said, it’s unlikely I’ll buy a newly manufactured tool as a business owner. There’s so many options and deals to be had on older industrial equipment from the 70’s-90’s that are generally better made.
Also, SCM would be another brand worth considering. They are certainly on the industrial level but their “lower level” products are obtainable for the consumer.
fred
We had a big Shop Fox sliding table saw in our cabinet shop. When we bought it, the guys thought it was great for panel cutting – even gang cutting. Having a dedicated scoring blade and greater accuracy it replaced our panel saw for a lot of work.
After my tenure – I heard that the saw suffered some motor/control failures, and it was replaced with a SCM
JR Ramos
I usually skip right over anything with “Best” in the title. From the days of penny-per-click blogs to associated clickbait puff pieces so ubiquitous these days, it’s exceedingly rare to find anything “best” worth the time to read. But I read this through. 🙂
It’s correct that things change a lot once you step up out of the consumer/pro-sumer goods, and there are a host of things added into those purchases. Service and technical assistance being the most important, right along with parts. And parts availability is the #1 drawback with so many less expensive items. Sadly, some of the better importers like Jet have fallen into that category over the years although they still make a strong showing usually.
Consumer expectations may need to be adjusted in this category. Shipping or “free returns” generally are not a thing, so research before purchasing is wise, as is knowing how to navigate shipping damage and such. The Walmart/Amazon easy experience should not be expected but it’s nice when it can happen. If there are problems you will generally be expected to take care of them yourself (with parts assistance from the manufacturer usually) rather than getting a complete exchange for a new item…to include motors and electrical issues.
I think once you get above some arbitrary 50lb $300 level you can expect things to be different. We’re only about 35 years into these cheap machinery items, maybe 40? Grizzly and Delta I think were the first to make them more broadly available as there was a shift to Asian sources and a dearth of American sources. Several years of great or decent-enough models from Taiwan and while – like today – most of them were compromises and even the higher end stuff still fell short of what was typical quality before then, they were functional and affordable for the new crop of home-based users and hobbyists. Then the shift went to China and all sort of issues arose, many of which still exist. Some of these tools are using the exact same designs and castings as they were three decades ago, so it’s wise to just get familiar with the items and ignore branding save for accoutrements like warranty and parts availability. Some of these things are too large, complex, or expensive to be considered throwaway tools, so the parts and company support should be paramount in deciding what to buy. Else you’re stuck hunting down boneyard parts or getting ghetto creative when you have problems, which you probably will. This is where Grizzly always shone brightest because so many of their items were the same thing at a higher price, but they gave you something for the future with that higher pricing. Jet was a step up but now they have sunk a little (but still have some very worthy machinery). Powermatic and Laguna both seem to be higher up the ladder in every way.
Rikon is weird. A lot of their items just seem to be dressed up a little but aren’t that different from Wen or Delta (Pentair days), and pricing seems higher than what it should be.
Metal cutting bandsaws are a great example for all of this. Few will justify the expense of the really good ones (new or used) and so the majority of people have cheap imports in various flavors and a lot of those are precisely the same as they were in 1994 or thereabouts, same issues, same relative costs. You can still find no-name Asian-branded ones or you can spend a little more for the same thing from Harbor Freight or Grizzly, or spend even more for the same thing from a few other companies. Sometimes buying the cheapest there, if you know that you can purchase compatible parts from one of the other companies who charges more, brings you ahead in the end, as long as it does what you need.
This has always been a category of compromise and demands and it’s always been hard to deliver these types of things at prices people are willing or able to pay (outside of commercial/industrial situations…where they’re more likely to be buying higher quality instead). So best? Yeah. Look for long term support after the sale.
fred
There are so many ways to cut metal these days that band saws may be playing second fiddle. We had a giant Armstrong Blum (Marvel) vertical tilting frame plate saw in our fabrication shop that was left over from the Cold War days. It hardly got used. We also had a DoAll horizontal band saw that got used a bit more. But plasma and water jet cutting can be more precise.
MM
Assuming we’re talking vertical bandsaws for cutting plate or sheet goods I think it really comes down to the sort of work one is doing. For ongoing production there are much faster and more precise methods of cutting metal than a bandsaw. They also often have lower consumable costs as well. However, there are pros and cons to every method, and one advantage that bandsaws have is their incredible flexibility. I have two older DoAll saws in my shop, they each have an interesting guide mounted on the saw with recommended blade speeds & feed rates for cutting different materials. Many of these are what you’d expect: hardwood, aluminum, copper, ferrous metal, etc. But these includes all sorts of interesting and exotic materials: babbitt, firebrick, slate, asbestos board, armor plate steel, even “meteorites”. That kind of flexibility is what makes the vertical bandsaw so useful in my opinion. You can be resawing hardwood boards one moment, swap a blade and switch to a different speed and now you can cut thick blocks of tool steel the next.
Stuart
Regarding “best,” it seemed to fit the nature of the discussion. and stood a good chance of reaching anyone looking for opinions on machine brands in the future.
Something like “my take on major woodworking tool and machine brands” would perform better, at least short-term, but be very difficult to find in the future via internal or external search.
Anyway, this is such a frustrating topic because all of the brands are kind of “meh” in their own way.
fred
” kind of “meh” in their own way” sort of describes much of what’s in the market today. My take is that a number of factors have contributed to that state of affairs. First is that the buyers of products have come to expect that innovations will be forthcoming on a regular cycle. Then the mass market buyer seems to be fixated on price more than longevity. Perhaps that’s a natural consequence of thinking that innovation will quickly obsolete whatever we buy. When I bought my Unisaw, I did not think about what innovations might come along to obsolete it. I was looking for a tool to last my lifetime and the price was the price. Consumerism, big-box stores and now the Internet have made us even more conscious of prices and the ability to shop around. So, if price is paramount, and the market has been schooled to accept obsolescence then manufactures may strive to “value engineer” their offerings at every price point.
I think of the example of my post WWII Leica Cameras. I own a M3 and M4 which were manufactured to very high standards. The M5 was the last of the series built in Wetzlar and IMO Leica then started on a path of value engineering. Could a modern digital camera be built to the quality standards of those old Leicas? I guess they could – but I doubt that there would there be a market for them willing to pay the price to make them profitable.
Alexk
Fred, you just destroyed my old dream of one day owning a M6.
I loved the feel of my old Nikons – FM, FE, F3HP and F2AS. Pretty sure they would be working today, forty five years later if I still had them.
In November, I bought the Nikon Zf and get so much use and fantastic quality out of it. Even though it feels built like a tank and is water resistant, I assume it isn’t built to last decades. With technology changing, most people will want to upgrade every few years, so why would a company build things to last?
I wonder what the perspective is of younger people who are trained by current times to want the latest and greatest. Can they have nostalgia for something they haven’t experienced, like things made to last?
JR Ramos
I’ve pondered this over the years and I just come away thinking that it is both curious and marvelous that “these types” of machines are even available so affordably and that they have become so common in home shops/small shops. Built to a functional price point is the achilles heel of course.
Seems like this was a phenomenon of the affluence after WWII and the at-home craftsman exploded along with power tools, what, in the 1950s? Ebbed and flowed as things do, and then from the late 80s forward it really seemed like with even more affordable imports it got to where many more people bought “large” machines…and then the internet happened and then influencers happened. It’s really rather weird when you think about it. I’d feel better about it if the majority of the machines weren’t comparative crap but there sure is a lot of scrap iron and space taken up in landfills for this cheap tooling that everyone “needs” to have at home.
fred
You’re probably right. The post WWII affluence and pent-up demand for housing – then consumer goods – had a lot to do with it. It was said the Roosevelt had worried that the end of the war would once again bring on a depression. But the great economist Wassily Leontief thought otherwise. With his input-output models, he predicted the booms that would follow the war. Then when people moved into a Levitt style house in the suburbs there was lots in the way of projects to undertake and even if you didn’t have a basement for a shop – maybe a garage and a Sears tablesaw or RAS would get you started.
JR Ramos
Fred you are always full of gems. I just spend a couple hours reading about Levitt and the whole works, which was interesting and insightful. I vaguely heard something-Levitt years ago but never looked into it, had no idea of his importance and legacy (and faults) or how it affected this entire country. Union busting, spray painting, power saws, and the American Dream all stemming out of this guy and his military experience. Probably distantly responsible for Starbucks, too, in his own way…..
JR Ramos
Also contemplated how much this affected domestic manufacturing. Probably not as much of an impact as the widespread use of plastics had, but it seems like the explosion of DIY must have affected a lot of various manufacturers one way or another.
Goodie
I agree that most woodworking machinery is “meh”, but I will push back just a little. I was born in the mid 70s and started wood-working with my Dad in the early-mid 80s. Pentair era Delta was pretty good, but tools were fairly expensive. We didn’t have any. Nor any of the corded Porter Cable stuff.
We used to watch Norm Abrams and dream of having many of his tools. I now have most of them for well under $10k invested. To Fred’s earlier point, this is less than 25% of the cost of my family car (an SUV).
What we did have was Sears Craftsman tools and some vintage 60s/70s aluminum housed handheld tools. We had a Craftsman 10 inch contractor style saw that was okay, but had a horrible fence. We had a Craftsman radial arm saw that was okay. A single Sears router that was fairly decent. Bench grinder from a farm co-op. Scroll saw from the 50s.
These tools are, in retrospect, pretty awful compared to what someone can buy today. A SawStop PCS represents much less of my income than that Craftsman gear was of my Dad’s salary at the time.
Today, price engineering has resulted in some “meh” tools, but the average woodworkers can still buy better tools, at lower price, than someone from the 80s. The 2000s/2010s represent the time that woodworking was most affordable for the average woodworkers, but we are not that far off from them today.
John
I have a lot of tools, some new, some used. I would say that every brand I have purchased has had something off that I had to fix on a new machine. Sawstop, Grizzly, Wen, Jet etc. There is no perfect brand. Maybe my Supermax 16-32 was the most near hassle free new tool years back. Hope Laguna doesn’t mess those up.
Grizzly is my most frustrating brand, because everything I have purchased from them requires me fixing something day 1.
I would never buy Felder/Hammer. Simply put, provide real out-the-door price (not get a quote garbage) or screw off.
Get into other types of tools and the same applies. I have 2 Ikier lasers about $1500 each that both required fixing. An Austrian branded $2500 welder that had to be replaced entirely because internal components were burning up.
Festool Domino 900 with a curved fence, which they promptly replaced hassle free.
Bought one of the early rotary units from Weldtables that was very off, they simply stopped responding to emails for a fix.
My list could go on and on. Multiple workshops with many tools for wood, metal, sewing etc. Thankfully I am capable of fixing most things because relying on these companies is hit and miss. Many companies simply don’t care if their product sucks.
daniel durkton
I have a Saw Stop (3hp) and a Hammer A3-31 Love them . Both companies are great to work with the machines are in my opinion top notch. I also have a grizzly 14 inch bandsaw that I’ve had for eight years now works great takes a little time to dial in.
Just a little sidenote. The saw stop is not a gimmick. It is a top-notch tablesaw. It was dead nut out of the box. I’ve had it for five years now. Never once did I say oh man, I should’ve bought a Harvey or any other brand.
Nick
After a lot of research, I bought a Harvey tablesaw about a year ago. I emailed them and asked for the best price I had seen over about a month of watching it and they gave it to me. I’ve been very happy with the purchase.
Jbongo
This was interesting to read through. I’ve only purchased a single machine, which was a SawStop table saw and I’ve been very pleased with it. All my other large tools I inherited from my Grandpa, which include an old craftsman bandsaw and drill press.
Since it’s just an occasional hobby, I haven’t replaced them (and don’t plan to). Reading through this, I’m not sure what I’ll do once they need fixed and I can’t find parts.
Kurt
I bought a Laguna F2 late last year, and I love it. So much better than the Delta Contractor’s saw that I had been using, even though I had upgraded the fence. Smooth, much quieter, just a pleasure to use.
Having the upgraded safety equipment of the riving knife and anti-kickback pawls has increased my peace of mind. It doesn’t have the flesh sensing technology, but I’m ok with the price/feature ratio compared to SawStop.
Robert
Kind of depressing in the big picture. Are we are own worst enemies, always searching for a bargain, so that price conscious mediocrity is the result?
JR Ramos
Well…yes…but. I think a lot of the blame can rest on the shoulders of many companies themselves and/or investment owners (which we have seen so much of since the 80s and maybe even more so in the last 10-15 years). It goes hand in hand, though. What’s frustrating is the dearth of actual quality goods now and who knew that making tons of items cheap-cheap would become the norm and see high end things disappear or nearly so.
Other companies leading the way but we can put a lot of this on WalMart in the 80s and how they affected literally everything in not that many years.
Goodie
I have a Laguna band saw (it’s excellent, but needs the Carter guides to really shine), 5hp SawStop CB (predecessor to the ICS), and Steel City jointer. Very happy with all of them.
A couple adds to the discussion:
1. Unless you need it RIGHT NOW, wait to buy these types of woodworking tools used. You can get great deals on them and they are all (as Stuart mentioned) somewhat compromised. Buying them used makes the tinkering afterwards a little more palatable. If you’re lucky, you can buy tool that was well set up by its’ previous owner.
2, I had a Jet “hybrid” saw prior to the sawstop. I would not hesitate to buy another one. It was well made, and super smooth. I would not buy many of their other tools, but their table saws deliver decent value for the money. Stay away from their bandsaws.
3. Grizzly bandsaws are often great value for the money. It takes some careful research to buy what you need, as they have a very deep line with lots of options.
4. SawStop manuals and customer service are first rate. Their saw quality is every bit as good as a Powermatic. Their prices are usually fairly close (within class) to the Powermatic. Close enough that I don’t think I could justify spending that much and not get the safety tech. I am not a huge fan of the litigious nature of the company, but I view them as delivering very high quality and features as well as safety tech. This is the cabinet saw to buy new right now. For everything else by used. Oh and by the way, my 20 year old Sawstop CB can be converted into a current ICS with a complete kit from the company. They stand behind their products and they won’t abandon you.
5. For all but the biggest shops, the DeWalt 735 planer is the right planer for you. Fantastic quality and a great for factor. Buy once, cry a little. I have friends with Felder planers who still keep a 735 around because they think the little DeWalt delivers better finish quality. Get a Byrd Shelix or Luc-Cut helical head of you want an upgrade
6, jointer? Try to buy a used parallelogram model in a brand you like. Jointers haven’t changed much in decades. If you feel like, upgrade to a helical head later. With the used price and the head, you can still be under the price of a new jointer.
7. Drill press? I have the WEN 4214T. I am actually fairly impressed with it It’s not great, but it’s very good for the money. Drilling wood doesn’t require the precision that metal requires.
8. Handheld power tools still matter in this area. I like my FESTOOL sanders, jigsaw, and Domino. If you join a guild or club, you might find some good deals on them. They have a 3 year “wear and tear” warranty, so sending them off for a tune up just shy of three years is always a good idea. There’s no reason to buy FESTOOL unless you want to, other tools work well. The Domino and sanders, though, are worth every penny to me.
John Stephenson
Thank you for the interesting article.
Aamong others, missing from your list are Altendorf, Martin, and SCMI.
These three, as well as Felder have provided me with great sales and service.
Additionally, SawStop is not “the only brand with flesh detection and active injury mitigation technology.” Altendord, Felder, and SCMI have technology on their saws that is arguably better. They are able to prevent injury, do not ruin the blade and can be reset within seconds.
Stuart
While Altendorf and others have flesh detection and injury mitigation tech, I am under the impression they are intended for commercial environments, not to mention astronomically priced.
fred
I hinted at it before – but I think we’ve gotten to expect that we can get high quality at a Walmart’s price point, My example of paying over $1000 for my Unisaw – the same year my Olds Cutlass Supreme was $3200 was meant to provide some perspective. Today I can no longer buy an Oldsmobile – but a Buick Envista would set me back over $30k with tax. So, using the same ratio – I could spend about $10,000 on a table saw. That might not buy an Altendorf with all the bells and whistles – but I could find a Minimax in that price range.
I think that fact that you can equip your shop with a well-made Sawstop that has flesh detection and injury mitigation technology is in itself a great thing. Not having others being able to offer the same in the Sawstop price range is not so good – but I do respect the idea of patent protection. If I were equipping my shop today – even their industrial model deflated to 1972 dollars ($1 in 1972 = $7.52 today) would be less in real terms than I paid for my Unisaw.
Goodie
This. I wrote about this above. While I don’t disagree that most woodworking machines are “meh” today, they are relatively cheap compared to those from 50-30 years ago. My Dad’s old Craftsman contractor saw lists at $375 today, which is over $1800. Fo about the same price (or less than that) today, you can buy a Grizzly cabinet saw, a Laguna F2 or a SawStop Contractor saw. They are miles ahead of that old Craftsman with its crappy fence.
We have better tools, at lower price, than most woodworkers just a few years ago.
Jasper
Thanks Stuart and all the commenters I learnt a bunch. It seems like my gut was right that it is a bit pot luck if you get a good one or bad one with most brands. I have been looking for a bandsaw for resawing some logs and other future projects. I think I have narrowed it down to between the Harvey ALPHA HW615Pro and Laguna BX 18. Mostly ruled out Jet though there are good deals on them at the Seattle surplus reseller time to time. Grizzly might be an option but the range of choices is confusing and I am not really a fan of the green.
Tool Junkie
I had a Jet 10″, 3hp Xacra saw. It had a good fit & finish. Sold it. Ihave their 2Hp dust collector mounted to my ceiling with a Onieda Dust Deputy under it, attach we d to a 55gal drum. Works great! I got a Grizzly 21″ bandsaw, 5hp. Great saw for the money. I had a Felder 12″ table saw, jointer/ planer, shaper, combo machine. Great all around tool & company. I sold it & bought an AD4-41 (16″ J/P), also a great tool. Spiral cutter head with knives. Excellent tool! Sawstop 3hp table saw. Excellent tool! Highly recommend! I have a Jet 12″ bandsaw with Cartier guides, 12″ solid neck. Nice tool, as is their drill press. I like my SuperMax 19/38″ drum sander, but it’s a little finicky at times, too. It has a tendency to burn wood & eat rolls of paper, but it’s great on end grain cutting boards.
My two favorites are the Sawstop & Hammer, as well as all my Lie Nielsen & Lee Valley hand planes!
Hammer
I worked in a large, professional cabinet/furniture shop only doing custom work/orders for several a little over 5 years. We had very good, very expensive shop tools (6 brands listed in this article). Personally, I would take a Powermatic over any other brand. We rarely experienced a mechanical failure or quality problems. We had 2 people who regularly inspected, cleaned, did any recommended routine maintenance, etc. on every tool in the shop weekly. I speak from experience that we NEVER had an issue with a Powermatic tools (I believe we had 11 Powermatic tools). I’m now retired and haven’t worked with many power tools in the last 3 years, but based on my personal experience, if I were to set up a new shop, every tool I need would made by Powermatic (also I would have no problem with used Powermatic tools because they are seriously that good). Further, I personally have two friends who have operated their own small cabinet shops and they have owned and used the same Powermatic table saws and Powermatic shapers in their shop for almost 30 years and they still perform flawlessly. I know there are other great tools to be had, but I’m only going on several years of personal experience.
kent_skinner
I think most of the big names have taken a big dive in quality over the years. My job puts me in various shop spaces around the country – I’ve been hands on in at least 40-50 shops in the last 10 years.
I’ve used most of the big players in the woodworking space (Delta, Grizzly, Powermatic, Jet, Saw Stop, Laguna, Hamer, ShopFox) as well as the metal working/machining space (Bridgeport, Sharp, Lagun, Hardinge, Bailigh, Baldor, and many, many more).
I think the vast majority of the big names in stationary wood tools are interchangable. Sawstop may make a slightly better table saw than most.
The new stuff isn’t junk, but I there’s no way I’d buy any of that stuff new these days. It’s just not that good.
All of my stationary power tools in my woodshop are used, vintage and usually US made. The exceptions are the miter saw (there’s are no vintage 12″ sliders) and my planer (couldn’t find a planer after years of searching so I got a new DeWalt.)
60’s Unisaw, 70’s PM lathe, 40’s Delta 14″ bandsaw, etc.
Adam
So after reading all that, I wouldn’t know what to buy, I thought Laguna table saws were good, but maybe their not.