What’s your take on cordless power tools with built-in batteries?
Opinions on the matter tend to come up every time we talk about such tools, and so it made sense to give the discussion its own home.
I used my Bosch Go cordless screwdriver over the weekend, driving in dozens of screws to assemble an IKEA dresser for my daughter, it made the experience much easier than otherwise.
Advertisement
There are also lighting products with built-in batteries, such as Milwaukee’s new pocketable task light that has a phone-like form factor.
A common complaint about built-in batteries focuses on how the tool will be unrepairable down the road. Once the battery reaches the end of its useful life, the same happens to the tool.
A couple of brands offer compact cordless power tools with replaceable rechargeable batteries. Ryobi’s USB Lithium and Milwaukee’s RedLithium USB are two such systems.
Some of these products offer built-in charging, and so the battery doesn’t have to be removed or swapped out for a fresh one.
That you can do that – swap out a depleted battery – means the tool can be immediately available for continued use, which is a significant benefit for tools with replaceable batteries.
Tools with built-in batteries are simply not designed for battery replacements, at least not by the user. There are very few exceptions to this across multiple-industries.
Advertisement
Tools with built-in batteries tend to be more compact and less expensive than those with replaceable batteries.
What if you want longer runtime? What happens a couple of years in the future after x-number of uses wears down the battery’s charge capacity? It’s time for a different tool.
Some of you might be asking about the potential for a “best of both worlds” solution, and the prospect of a tool that works with off-the-shelf 18650-sized Li-ion batteries. That’s not happening, as multiple consumer protection groups and government agencies vehemently discourage products that allow for this.
I’m not sure if I have a preference yet. I’m fond of multiple cordless power tool battery systems, and also find certain tools with built-in batteries to be incredibly convenient.
I don’t like considering tools to be disposable just because their batteries wear over time.
But consider what happened to the smartphone industry. Long-gone are the days when you can change out a battery by yourself. How many people really care? My phone’s nearing 3 years old, and according to the built-in battery management software, it’s at 88% of its maximum capacity.
Battery longevity has come a long way in the past decade.
By the time the battery in a worklight or compact cordless screwdriver fails, it might be time for a new one.
My Bosch Go cordless screwdriver – also available in the USA under Dremel branding – would likely be bulkier or pricier if designed with a user-replaceable battery.
Thinking about Dremel, they used to make 7.2V tools – a screwdriver and an ergonomic Stylus rotary tool. Both had built-in batteries, and I don’t think the form factors would have been possible if designed around a removable battery.
There are pros and cons.
Would you pay more for compact tools engineered around a proprietary removable battery? How much more?
If I had to choose between a tool with a non-removable built-in battery and one with a proprietary but replaceable battery, it would come down to features, size, and cost, perhaps in that order.
That said, I also tend to avoid tools with built-in pouch cells unless I plan to use them often. I don’t need an LED light in my tape measure, or a laser distance measuring tool the size of a car key fob.
Dave
Good article and topic covered well Stuart. I would only add that many of us older users have had multiple tools in past experiences fail because of the built in battery which is frustrating if the tool still works fine. This generation of tools typically had the NiCad type of batteries. With that being said I do own a few tools with the built in lithium batteries and am quite happy with them thus far. Another item to mention is the downtime having to recharge a built in battery. Overall however, I wouldn’t hesitate to purchase a built in battery if tool had the features I was looking for.
Bonnie
I have that pictured Dremel stylus. I think it’s going on 13 years or so at this point and still works perfectly.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. I still own an old Makita NiMH drill… With a rebuilt battery. But it’s functionally a paperweight because it’s outclassed in every single way by even 10-year old tools. No matter how replaceable the battery might be, tools are still in a period of relatively rapid development that means there’s an expiration date on their usefulness even if replacement parts and batteries are available.
Fowler
“Tools with built-in batteries are simply not designed for battery replacements, at least not by the user. There are very few exceptions to this across multiple-industries.”
This is sometimes due to certification or safety requirements. One product I worked on needed UL certification and one of the certification requirements was that the internal battery be inaccessible to the user. If you don’t need that certification then you can do whatever you want, but it’s not uncommon for retailers to require that sort of thing to carry your product.
Personally, I think internal batteries are fine if they make the tool more usable. Lithium batteries last a long time now, and in most cases you can get to them and swap them out if you really need to
KokoTheTalkingApe
Very interesting, thanks! Why was making the battery inaccessible necessary for UL certification? And don’t some tools with replaceable or accessible batteries have UL certification?
Jason
In a word, no. I’ve experienced too many failures to want built-in batteries.
Mark M.
I definitely think long and hard before buying a tool or anything with a non-replaceable battery. But sometimes it’s worth the risk. Perfect example: The Klein worklight (56403) is awesome. Use it all the time. If it died today, I wouldn’t be mad at it. So as a general rule I think non-replaceables are a bad idea, but there are exceptions. But that light is also $40 and not $140, so that factors in, too.
The other thing we discount is the overall condition of the tool when the battery eventually craps out. At the rate it’s going, that Klein worklight is going to look and feel like it was run over by a train at the end of the battery life, but that’s OK b/c it’s been genuinely useful. Point being: When the battery eventually gives up you might be ready for a new version for that and other reasons.
ZPirate
I would love to see someone come out with a super compact 1/4 socket impact driver, which might make sense to have an integrated battery. Now that Milwaukee has the stubby gen 2 with a crazy amount of power. Imagine a much smaller version with around 100-200ft lbs of power.
Why are consumer protection groups and governments so against 18650’s? Can you elaborate? I’ve never heard this before and it seems like a great concept.
I also disagree with your point on iPhone battery life. If you got a new phone you would be surprised how much better a new battery is. The capacity remaining is based on Apples rated capacity of the battery. The battery’s initial capacity is significantly higher than what they rate it as, so as the battery degrades it still reports 100% for a long time. It’s all a scam to appear green and prevent warranty battery replacements.
Stuart
3.6V/4V Max cordless screwdrivers typically top out at 45 in-lbs of torque or less. I don’t think we’ll be seeing a 3.6V impact tool anytime soon.
Loose 18650 cells present a fire hazard, especially when they lack built-in protections.
https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News-Releases/2021/CPSC-Issues-Consumer-Safety-Warning-Serious-Injury-or-Death-Can-Occur-if-Lithium-Ion-Battery-Cells-Are-Separated-from-Battery-Packs-and-Used-to-Power-Devices
https://www.cpsc.gov/Regulations-Laws–Standards/Voluntary-Standards/Topics/Batteries
I typically charge my phone once a day, and don’t run into capacity or runtime issues unless travelling for a media event or otherwise heavily utilizing my phone. I checked the number out of curiosity.
With earlier generation smartphones, I’d always notice a drop in runtime after a year and a half or so. Batteries are also increasingly software-managed to help prolong their life.
928'er
I have lots of loose 18650 cells that I’ve harvested from computer battery packs for use in LED flashlights. Also have a number of 14500 loose cells also used in flashlights. All stored in plastic cases of 4 each when not in use. Polarity is always observed.
I’ve read the CPSC warnings and they appear to be, mainly common sense stuff: don’t carry loose cells in your pocket with keys or loose change, in other words don’t short circuit them, don’t overcharge them, etc.
I’ve had cell phone batteries that have swollen up like a balloon. I think these batteries are far more of a hazard than loose 18650 cells.
You can’t fix stupid…
carl
Yeah, they’re really pretty safe, especially with modern chemistries. Just don’t physically damage them, set them on fire, etc. Common sense stuff. I have a ton of various sizes these days although mostly 18650, and 21700s.
If I had a device die these days, I’d probably just see how hard it is to tear apart and then try to ascertain whether I should pop in a protected or unprotected replacement cell.
MM
As for the “loose battery” angle, this is a very real problem. A lot of us have grown up learning that loose batteries are relatively safe. Lots of kids toys and everyday things used AA’s, C’s, D’s…people got used to just handling them without much special care. But modern batteries contain a *lot* more energy inside, and they can discharge that energy much faster than the old cells could. A modern rechargeable battery is dangerous for the exact same reason that a cup of gasoline is dangerous: there’s a bunch of energy trapped in those chemicals just waiting to get out. All it takes is a spark to set off the gasoline. In the case of the battery, all it takes is a short-circuit, which is as simple as a conductive object touching the cell the wrong way, or it suffering the right kind of damage from being dropped.
Farkleberry
I love how the fake green nanny state has brainwashed everyone into accepting that we should all be idiots who rely on others to keep us safe.
We should also spend everything we can packing the landfill with amazingly high quality items with dead batteries, as well as all the other junk we “need” or “deserve”.
-Cell phones – yes there is constant software change, but companies only offer one or two software updates before your perfectly functional phone is a brick. Changing a phone battery is not trivial, but it’s more a question of patience and YouTube than electronics knowledge. Finding a quality aftermarket battery for an “obsolete” phone is problematic in our disposable culture.
Obviously many items that don’t need to be sealed up could have batteries made replaceable for very little upcharge.
Equally obviously, the revenue and liability from replacement batteries are less attractive that just selling a whole new product.
I don’t think many well built tools with non replaceable batteries are worn out before their batteries die. Unless abused, low power tools aren’t typically doing hard work are they? The majority of tools are probably not doing much work at all – hard, easy or otherwise.
I would guess the percentage of tools worn out approaches that of SUV’s worn out offroading.
-18650 and gasoline – BAN THEM!
Let’s add knives and all sharp objects as well.
18650 flashlights have been commonplace since the beginning, and I have work lights that will take either AA or 18650.
How about we teach the citizenry that powerful fuel sources can be dangerous.
Maybe we should stop throwing everything away while we flush our freedom down the toilet?
carl
AA or 18650? Not 14500?
Saulac
I wonder if EU has regulation regarding built-in batteries. All batteries should be replaceable. All of my solar outdoor lighting has batteries behind a cover. And these are cheap no name brand lights. There is no justification for un-removable batteries.
Michael F
In the electronics repair world we replace internal batteries all the time. It’s a bit of a pain, but like you said it leads to a smaller product and I’m not sure I’d want a Nintendo Switch that’s 20% thicker because it has a swappable battery.
When it comes to power tools and accessories that are designed to be used in a system, it’s actually easier to charge a fleet of batteries on one charger (or dual charger) and then have them ready to use than remembering to plug in each individual tool periodically into some kind of USB-based charging cable. This is why for absolutely everything in a “system” (from a flashlight to a powered screwdriver) I’d prefer a 4V swappable battery like Ryobi and Milwaukee’s over an internal battery. It’s not about replacement, I’m very comfortable replacing internal batteries. It’s about ease of charging and use.
MM
I’ve never personally bought a power tool with a non-replaceable battery. That wasn’t deliberate but it just sort of worked out that way–those kinds of tools tend to be lower-end light duty sorts of tools that I don’t have any use for.
I do own a few lights that have built-in batteries, I’ve been happy with them as the batteries have proven to have a long enough run time so I’ve never been frustrated by the battery being dead. The lights were not super expensive so even if they die after a few years and turn out to be irreparable I’ve still gotten my money’s worth.
I think this article raises a good point though. There is a balance involved. On the one hand nobody likes the idea of a tool that cannot be repaired if the battery were to fail. But on the other hand technology improves quickly, if an older power tool fails it often makes more sense to replace it with a new model than it does to repair it, even if it could be repaired easily.
Steven B
Phones are a bad example. They are disposable toys not meant for professional use. They’re consumer gadgets with a known limited lifespan. Even if your 10yo phone still works great, Apple and Google have long stopped making patches for them. You can’t run most apps and services on them. As a professional software developer, I get it…Netflix doesn’t want to support your beloved Samsung S2. There are serious security concerns. But we ask a lot more from a phone than we do from any conventional power tool.
Ironically, I used Apple products for work, but they’re not professional tools nor do they design them for professional use. They’re toys you can do work on, but are clearly not designed for working professionals. Pros don’t care very much how thin or light a laptop is. They just want it to be fast and reliable…and really easy to service.
Power tools? Well, it doesn’t have to be a nice hot-swap battery function, but if I can’t replace the battery…it’s a disposable toy and should be priced as such. I recognize that it’s difficult to make a water-sealed gadget in a small form factor. AirPods will never be easy to swap batteries on and that’s fine. However, there should be a massive tariff on any device that doesn’t allow the user to change the battery…I don’t care if you have to pry it open to do so…that’s reasonable. However, every manufacturer should be forced to either use common batteries or sell replacements for a minimum of 5 years, if not 10.
There is a MASSIVE ecological consequence to disposable cheap gadgets from China (and other locations) clogging our landfills with toxic substances leeching out. As a society, we should discourage disposable goods.
In contrast, look at cameras from Japan. A Canon/Sony/Nikon is a gadget that’s designed for professional use. I can hot swap batteries and the expensive models are fully weather-sealed. Even most video game controllers have replaceable batteries.
Having batteries that can’t be replaced really is scam. We’ve just grown to tolerate it as a society. Apple pioneered this scam and we just accepted it. And Apple is popular enough with its users that it can get by with it. The Korean manufacturers went along with the scam because they’re just as greedy…and it’s just the way it is now. I purposely bought Samsung because of the user-swappable battery until they stopped supporting it.
No one WANTED fixed batteries, the headphone jack removed, etc…we just didn’t really have much choice. Silicon Valley doesn’t really care what their users want. They are convinced they’re smarter than the rest of humanity and can see the future…the AppleVisionPro, for example.
SV doesn’t want or need your input…they’ll tell you what you want and need…and your choice is to either adapt or go without. You are inconsequential to SV…you’re just there to catch the bugs they missed and fund them (and so many are juiced up with so much VC funding they barely cared about sales until very recently).
Hopefully, the top tool brands will treat customers more like customers rather than beta testers.
TomD
iPads and laptops can certainly be professional tools – but in those cases when used that way the iPad is just discarded when the battery dies (now someone may take it home and get it fixed up but the company doesn’t care about that – they just want the thing to work).
fred
I think it comes down to use cases.
For tools that need to be used for prolonged periods and may run out of battery-charge – then probably it’s a no-go. But if the tool is cheap enough and does what’s needed – maybe buy two – to swap out. A swap out might be OK in a shop environment – but not so good out on a job site.
For tools used infrequently for short duration the advantages in cost and ergonomics of a built-in battery may outweigh the advantages of having a replaceable battery. Most of us have an environmentalist predilection for not wanting to create rubbish if we can avoid it. But as Bonnie points out, obsolesce may force tool retirement before battery failure.
When we bought a new non-capital tool (under $500) in one of our businesses – our expectation was that it needed to pay for itself through use within the first year. If the tool lasted longer that was sort of an extra bonus. As a hobbyist or DIY user – not making money off of my tools – I have greater expectations for longevity. Those “hobbyist expectations” often preclude my doing any sort of cost-benefit analysis. In the past 10 years – many of my power tool purchases – Festool Domino and Lamello Zeta P2 machines come to mind – have added capability and changed my workflow – but were not based on some dollars and cents calculation.
So, the next time I see a built-in-battery tool that appeals to me for personal use or to give as a gift – I might remember all these discussions – and decide to roll the dice and accept that a built-in battery will not last forever.
Champs
It certainly feels like Troll Week on ToolGuyd.
Who are the “multiple consumer protection groups and government agencies” that “vehemently discourage” replaceable batteries? They haven’t hesitated to standardize charging cables, and while I appreciate that sketchy lithium batteries are dangerous, device certification is a very backwards way of regulating around the problem.
Punish the hell out of people who make shoddy batteries. An ounce of prevention only costs a few cents more.
BigTimeTommy
These consumer protection groups could actually exist, and who is to say they aren’t actually just corporate lobbyists masquerading as consumer protection groups 🤷♂️
Stuart
Some of them are tied to battery companies.
e.g. https://be-cigarettesafe.org/
https://www.prba.org/wp-content/uploads/PRBA-Policy-on-Use-of-Stand-Alone-Li-ion-Cells-18.pdf
Stuart
See comment https://14cyiuhvcgv.com/cordless-power-tools-with-built-in-batteries-discussion/#comment-1557117%3C/a%3E%3C/p%3E
There have been many announcements, guidelines, warnings, and similar about this.
For a power tool brand looking to produce a 3.6V/4V Max tool, the choice comes down to featuring a built-in battery or developing a user-replaceable proprietary and encased battery.
Regarding standardizing charging cables, most brands moved towards micro USB and now USB-C, doing away with different barrel jacks and proprietary 2-pin connectors that were more common 10+ years ago.
BigTimeTommy
Only if it’s a cheap tool I intend to use once or a limited number of times, and only for DIY use. I definitely don’t want to wait for a tool to recharge at work. Selling certain tools without replaceable batteries seems like planned obsolescence to me.
OldDominionDIYer
I have yet to come across a situation in my life where I needed a tool with a built-in inaccessible battery that can’t be done with one of my many removable battery tools just as easily. My immediate view of them is that they are cheap since they’re made to be thrown away at the end of the battery life. Because of this I don’t own any and am not interested in them. I have many removable battery tools and love them but have zero interest in buying one with an unreplaceable style battery. To each his own, no big deal but not for me for now.
Wayne R.
What kills my willingness to buy such a device is the sealed case. I don’t mind swapping out a dead battery for what’s usually a much better source, but having to nearly destroy the thing to get into it kills my desire to even look at it again.
Replacement cells are not usually a big deal, but sealed cases are the problem!
JR Ramos
For power tools? Low power short-time use only…like these screwdrivers…and it’s been done that way for three decades or more for that very reason, even with the added benefits of li-ion dense power storage now.
I’m probably not adding much to the comments already here and content of the article, but while I understand all of the reasons for choosing built-in inaccessible power sources, I think it’s a real shame and travesty that it’s usually done the way it is, because SO MANY end up in the landfill and that could easily be avoided (and sadly, actual recycling isn’t much of a thing in the US even if you do drop off items to be recycled…).
Safety, etc…? Fine. But make them somewhat user replaceable or at least require that the manufacturer make those cell replacement services available and at a reasonable cost. This means some slight redesigns for carriers or housings for many items since accessing the cell(s) is quite often destructive even if you know the correct steps/methods to get there. Because this is not possible for a great many items and manufacturers, it’s just a freakin’ waste in the name of laziness and/or profit.
Phones…nearly all of them can have replacement batteries, some easier than others, and you can do that at home yourself if you’re willing to take the time to learn, have reasonable aptitude, and possibly invest in a few inexpensive tools. The current state of affairs with phone batteries was precipitated by nothing else than wanting to deliver thinner models…nothing more. That necessitated removal of the bulky plastic pouch housings and jockeying the jigsaw puzzle around to fit different unprotected pouch cells in a new configuration. It’s a pain to replace, yes, but it does give us these awesome compact phones now. I don’t think it’s a good comparison to power tools and all the myriad of small consumer devices, in this aspect anyway.
The biggest difficulty that has now made the tail wag the dog is that generations of people are/were used to low power density alkaline type cells. Those can still start fires on occasion but so much lower risk. Some things like silver oxide need more attention (those can smolder fast and occasionally flame if opened and exposed to air…but you don’t see warnings about that) but mostly we’re only concerned about people swallowing them or otherwise losing them in an orifice.
Lithium chemistries do change the game, and a lot of people are not familiar or educated about them, even still now, 15-20 years after it has become ubiquitous in devices. And then there are the real health risks of lithium-metal primary disposable cells vs. lithium rechargeable which is pretty safe overall as long as you aren’t shorting or puncturing them or abusing them in ways that are not at all normal in typical applications (like Jackass stunts on videos, or vapers that misapply cell choices for what they want to do, or those who salvage and reuse old cells perhaps in power walls or bike batteries, etc). It doesn’t help that there was a spate of li-po and li-ion fires with laptops and hoverboards, then e-bikes…almost all of which were due to poor respect at manufacturing levels (cheap cells, poor engineering of products, etc). But here we are….lost of money or loss of life or the threat of either costs big bucks and so we knee-jerk and regulate and suddenly we have products with reduced lifespans and additional volume added to landfills, potential toxic pollution too).
We could do it better…should do it better.
Your Bosch Go has a somewhat poor choice of cell in it, but it’s cheap, and if you really want to you can replace it yourself with something more suitable, but Bosch packed everything in there quite nicely and there are plastic tabs on a number of things that must be treated with care else you break them and have issues with reassembly. Bosch won’t do this for you, nor will any service center, but you can if you want. There was a fellow in the UK I think that made a rather clumsy repair video on it…enough to serve as decent instructions for someone with skill and desire. Wouldn’t it be nice if that cell were more easily replaceable even if it had to be self-contained for safety of the masses or smaller tool size? It could be done, for no added cost at the manufacturing level.
Jared
I’m often defending built-in battery tools – not because that’s what I love, but they have a place.
They’re cheaper, smaller and usually don’t need a separate charger (maybe a usb cable). The point isn’t that they’re better, but that sometimes it’s the right fit.
That Bosch screwdriver Stuart mentions is a good example. I have the Dremel version and it lives in my mobile tool bag. I’m never in a situation where I’m using all day long, so I don’t need to hot swap batteries.
I toss that bag in my truck when I visit my mom or a friend who needs a hand with something – I don’t want to pack extra batteries or an separate charger. The whole point is to keep things light. An electrician who uses a tool over 12 hours would probably choose something different.
Even when tools have replaceable batteries, often the cost makes a whole new tool look pretty attractive.
Frank D
Hate built-in batteries for anything. Tool wise, fir compact space lower power stuff; I love my Bosch 12v – and hate Bosch for not bringing more stuff over – and my Ryobi 4v, especially the lights.
Nathan
I agree there are plusses to built around batter idea. Take you mobile when did you last swap out a mobile phone battery? For me not since my lgv20 in 2017 I think.
Dewalts new screwdriver thing. I initially don’t like a tool with a built around battery if it’s not field replaceable. I view the Milwaukee red lithium as something field replaceable.
Coast headlamps have a system with a field replaceable 21700 battery but it has some extra on it so the battery by itself can charge with a USB c. It’s mostly built in but field replaceable
I’m ok with that. But soldered into the tool is shop replaceable. And I don’t like that but given no better option I’m ok with it. But often there are options
Example I’d love another mobile with a field replaceable battery. Even if that 3mm thicker or 20g heavier. My favorite laptop is a the framework series. My second hp envy series. Why easy to work on. So a cordless tool that I’d have to breakout a soldering or worse welding kit to replace the battery doesn’t readily appeal to me. (Li batteries are considered welded as solder might melt)
JR Ramos
I’ve found a lot of cells that were soldered to their tabs/cradles rather than spot welded. There’s virtually no risk of the solder melting, even with the lower temp leaded eutectic solder, but the soldering process is frowned upon because there’s a real risk of damaging the cell internally – too much heat and too much time necessary to complete the joint. More of a risk on the negative end than the positive end, but at best the excess heat can reduce the cell capacity and increase resistance and at worst it can cause shorts and dendrites that could be a hazard down the line during charging. Spot welding is much preferred because it’s precise and even though the heat it much more intense it’s super quick and pinpoint localized so it does not risk that same internal damage, and there’s no risk of a cold joint, etc. That said, doing at-home cell replacements, soldering is usually the choice and it can be done “better”…..much easier with NiMH and NiCd cells with their thicker cans and different chemistries.
ColeTrain
Are we not all trades people of some sort here? To say one of these tools is unrepairable is nonsense. Use one of your other tools to take it apart and change the battery. On a different note I always thought the small tools could serve a purpose but then they seem to just be a nuisance to carry so I never buy them
Stuart
People come from all kinds of backgrounds.
Even if one has the right tools, do they know how to safely replace built-in Li-ion batteries? Get it wrong, make a mistake, or choose the wrong battery, and you can start a fire or worse.
If a tool is UL-rated and passes OSHA guidelines and approval, but you modify it with your own 3rd party battery, that tool is no longer complaint.
Let’s say you install a 3rd party battery into a tool that’s not meant to be user-serviceable. Will your insurance cover damage to your property or a client’s?
The whole issue is that even brand-name batteries cannot be sourced directly. So where are they coming from?
I’m of the mindset that it’s not worth messing around with.
Wayne R.
Even using YouTube for insight from someone else’s breaking the case into smaller pieces, getting into most of these things is an act of destruction.
Yes, once you’re in, changing the battery is usually straightforward. But the case is all too often badly damaged in the process.
JR Ramos
It really depends on the tool…lots really are not made where an enterprising user can replace the cell and get the tool back together or fully functioning again (which is stupid). Always worth a shot, though.
I think Stuart is greatly overstating the risks here and turning it into fear. There is a learning curve to doing this the best way but it’s short. Choosing the “wrong” battery (??) is not going to affect anything other than performance characteristics and would not affect any certifications or standards as far as safety and construction are concerned, so long as you make a sound electrical connection, etc. I just mentioned in another comment that when replacing li-ion round cells, soldering is the only choice for most people (although you can buy or make small spot welders fairly cheaply these days) and there is a small risk there of damaging the cell internally due to the heat and duration necessary to solder the joint – more so on the negative end of the cell than the positive and you’re mostly looking at reduced capacity/increased resistance if you do manage to heat damage it, but there’s a chance of creating dendrites that may be a problem down the line during charging…not a huge concern but something to be aware of so that you can solder appropriately.
Every loose li-ion cell is “third party” really, unless you’re able to pull from a lot that was shipped direction to an OEM manufacturer. The vast majority are sold from the battery factories to wholesalers in incredible quantities and filtered out to the market from there. This is true of every “brand name” major manufacturer although a lot of the smaller China factories will sell to anyone if you have the channels (MOQ is still higher than most will ever consider, though…).
Li-ion deserves respect, absolutely, but it’s not hard to learn to use and work with it safely – it’s no harder than other battery chemistries really and they are far more safe than people seem to believe these days (which, considering, is understandable yet overblown).
Insurance…if you ask your insurance company about this, do you know what they’re going to say? Probably nothing or perhaps “if it was confirmed that your work was the source of a fire…” So if that’s a concern, as it should be for a business especially, then just send it off for service or dispose and replace and eat the cost. If a homeowner is that unsure then they probably should not yet be attempting a simple repair like this anyway (not that that seems to stop anyone these days, but…).
E-waste and general increased disposable goods are a real problem for a long time now and recognized by governments around the world. I don’t think we’ll do anything to truly address and rectify it until it reaches critical mass, though, which is sad.
Stuart
Not everyone who wants to repair a tool with a built-in battery has the skills to do so. Online videos and posts are full of improper soldering and cold joints.
How many people know and respect the risks posed by handling – or mishandling – loose Li-ion batteries?
https://kdvr.com/news/problem-solvers/firefighters-urge-caution-after-lithium-ion-battery-explodes-in-boys-pocket/
*GORE/injury warning* https://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/announcements/battery-burn-warning-after-pocket-fires-flares-and-fireworks
E-waste is a problem, but it’s not an excuse to encourage potentially unsafe practices.
I agree that it’s not hard to learn proper skills and safety practices, but many people don’t.
I am an “overthink and then maybe attempt” type of person. On the opposite side of the spectrum there are “don’t think and just do” type of people. I won’t apologize for putting speed bumps in their way if there’s a chance it’ll save someone from injury or property damage.
Wayne R.
Regarding loose cells: The Storacell products are excellent.
https://storacell.net/collections/all?
JR Ramos
There was a time when people did not “learn” from online videos – for those that do so today, the onus is on them to learn as much as they can and question the material presented, compare it to other sources. But sure, if a person is going to attempt to learn a new skill and use that new skill to work on something potentially risky, and they don’t do all they can to ensure they are working appropriately, then it’s on them. I don’t think that deserves shying away from the entire concept and I don’t think it’s worthy of fear-based commentary that suggests it’s so risky as to create a larger hazard than it is. This is what people with no experience do with subjects that they speak about or regurgitate an opinion or misinformation without first learning themselves. But it’s the manufacturers that put us in this position and it really does not have to be this way.
People working on gas appliances is a far greater risk to both health and property, especially with today’s more complex systems. Heck, people working on plumbing that don’t realize the various health risks there (sewer gas being a major one). It’s not a risk problem, it’s an education problem and perhaps one of “cluelessness” in that there has been an explosion of “hack” culture where people dive into anything to DIY. Really, li-ion is not such a huge deal, just take a little time to learn about it and remember to respect it, and until such time as manufacturers start making products that are not so disposable (which benefits noone but themselves) then learn and have a go at it.
Critical thinking skills are…shall we say in high demand…these days and it’s a real problem. Very much compounded by the complete freedom on YouTube and such and then the lure of monetization that came later but the sad thing is we have two generations almost of people that don’t know much better. There’s great legit content out there but people need to be willing to find it and use that critical thinking to question and confirm.
Everyone raised on alkalines where loose cells in a pocket were not such a risk of shorting out (although not zero). Some vapers and flashlight users appear unable to learn to use common sense and respect for the power until they experience an oops or read about someone else doing the same. Can’t really fix that well but we probably could have in the beginning…took twenty years (or call it fifteen in common markets) for the pendulum to swing over to Safety/Safer and then it continued momentum into fear and dissuasion. I mean Samsung’s reactions eventually were ridiculous and they are the ones that started the ball rolling. Heck, people don’t even handle loose ammunition as carefully as they should, but that’s a great example as loose li-ion cells are similarly safe-but-not-zero-risk.
Personally, I’ve taken the stance that I would rather educate (where I can) than dissuade people in general. The more knowledge people have, the more skills they can develop, and that’s good for everyone.
JR Ramos
And I’m not unaware that as a “publisher” of sorts, you may have added concerns here, which is totally understandable (and wise, considering litigation these days).
s
i suspect a lot of people are entering this with the consideration that a ‘built in battery power tool’ means only drills or screwdrivers.
but then you bring up milwaukee’s pocket task light, or use the milwaukee neck light later on as an example.
so what exactly is a ‘power tool?’ it’s a very vague and overly obscure term anymore.
wikipedia says :
“A power tool is a tool that is actuated by an additional power source and mechanism other than the solely manual labor used with hand tools. The most common types of power tools use electric motors. Internal combustion engines and compressed air are also commonly used.”
so a cordless toothbrush is a power tool, same as a cordless screwdriver. but a worklight, light up tape measure, or digital/laser measuring tape isn’t.
it really depends on the use of the tool. at work under near-constant use, replaceable batteries are best. but for items, like tooth brushes that require waterproof-ness, or compactness, with low-duration usage, integrated batteries are perfect.
integrated battery power tools are always going to be more compact, due to the lack of a need for a battery locking mechanism, or multiple ruggedized contacts for battery power and condition monitoring– direct connection to the battery for those things can save a ton of space.
but the other part of integrated battery tools is that if it’s not used a ton, in many cases a corded power tool can be an even better solution. for instance, i only use a corded dremel tool at home, but exclusively use a milwaukee m12 cordless dremel at work. for the scope of projects i use a dremel tool for at home, i don’t trust the battery life.
but if we’re including lights as power tools(they’re one of my most important tools!) i’ve almost entirely transitioned to integrated battery lights. i’ve got a couple powerful application-specific hold-outs, but in almost all cases, i’m willing to trade a slightly lower run time for the cheaper price and more compact form factor.
for instance, i keep some of these as part of my normal tools
https://www.harborfreight.com/lighting/work-lights/750-lumen-rechargeable-ultra-compact-magnetic-led-floodlight-yellow-59587.html
the run time is about half of what i need, so i have 4 instead of the two i’d prefer to keep around. but they’re also significantly cheaper than i’ve paid for other lights in the past, which helps justify the double-light cost.
i also used to EDC a 4sevens quark flashlight, specifically for using the extremely common cr123 cells, but have also transitioned to rechargeable lights like the rovyvon a3 for the far smaller form factor, slightly better output, but at a slightly decreased long-term run time.
JoeM
As to my take on built-in tool batteries? I genuinely don’t like them. In all use cases, I would rather pay more for being able to swap the battery, regardless of the kind. Even standard AA/AAA batteries, I’d rather the Rechargeables, but as long as they work, and can be changed, I’m good.
Do I like the Bosch GO? When Bosch keeps it to themselves? Yes. I actually do. Because Bosch, a known Woodworking specialist company, puts their name on the technology of push-and-go screwdriving, then I trust that will be supported for a long time to come. When that battery dies, there will be a Type 2, or a Version 2, with a new nifty feature or control. And it won’t be just anything, it’ll be something Bosch fully supports and has tested.
However. When they drop the same tool on Dremel, the casing is shoddy, the connectors are flimsy, and the quality sucks. Dremel has made some of the best power tools in History, and I rely on my…currently 4, possibly going to change… To do their jobs wonderfully. Then they drop the GO, the Home Flashlight, the 8080 micro rotary, and… Was it a pair of package shears? And Dremel has to support these stripped-down versions of the Bosch versions? They don’t last long on the market, and they disappear from being sold without notice, and without anyone even knowing anyone who owns them. The Stylus, seen above, was one of the most desired Dremel tools of all time. And yes, it suffered from the one weakness of not having a replaceable battery. But given the newer Stylo+ Corded, and their new 4V Built-In model… The Stylo+ is a superior replacement for the Stylus. The 4V Built In? Is not. It lacks power, versatility, and everything that makes a Dremel Rotary tool famously indispensable.
But, it still comes down to these built-in batteries. The Dremel Versa, a cleaning tool, is wildly underpowered. Even with attachments, pads, the whole shebang… They forgot to do 2 major items. One: Create a rubber plug for the charging port, leaving it exposed to water splash from, funny enough, the spinning scrubbers it uses. That will short it out, I’ve done it. It had to sit and dry for days before I could charge it again. Luckily it still works, and I find it is handy. And Two: They made the Accessories ridiculously expensive. You can make the pads yourself for pennies on the dollar versus the Dremel Branded Versa pads. Something they did very right about the Versa? The Accessory Kits you can buy, with different extensions and scrubbers? Has a 1/4″ Drill Chuck Adapter. So, when the Versa gives up the Ghost, you can use a real power tool to get things done. This is a nice backup contingency, while we wait for a fully-waterproof Versa 2.0. Because it is a wonderful tool, and even if they swapped it for yet-another 12V Max edition with more power, at least you could get multiple batteries charging at once, and there’s no need to cover the charging port, with the batteries forming the seal between the Electronics and the Water. This is a good tool, that needs development into a heavier edition. And I see a lot of these built-in tools needing that very thing. They need beefing up, and using heavier replaceable batteries would do just that.
Headbands, and Neck Lights, and all these associated little gadgety types… I kinda expect to stay built-in batteries. My only request with them… Is to take a hint from the Mobile Phone batteries they’re emulating, and make them Wireless Charging compatible, minimum 25 watts for quick charging. These are tools, and having plugs and compartments to open, are a hazard for dust, debris, and good ol’ fluids and oils. Are we not advanced enough as a whole, that these companies can afford to get with the times? Didn’t Bosch or Makita at least attempt wireless charging at one point? That was a good move forward. I expect DeWALT and Milwaukee to at least attempt the next version of their on-battery charger/USB power Source to have some pad-style side, that allows for Qi/Qi2/MagSafe charging in either direction. Not because it’s popular, but because it would be invaluable to their already-existing systems. It would also increase the versatility of these devices beyond that of the built-in battery tools.
So if you need the TL;DR version, I want these companies to do Better than this. Not more or less, Better. And I want my trusted brands to get it into their heads, that we live in a far more tech-integrated world. Basic electronics knowledge, like not leaving a charging port open to elements that could harm it, are a must-have feature, not a cost-saving item you leave off. If we can Wirelessly charge Ear Buds, we should be able to wirelessly charge a light you stick to your forehead or wrap around your neck. It’s ridiculous that this has to be said at all.
KokoTheTalkingApe
Stuart makes a good point, that there are pros and cons to both sides (as there usually are.) It just so happens that for me personally, the pros of non-replaceable batteries don’t apply.
There’s a third option too, which is to use standard-sized rechargeable batteries, like Eneloops. They are NiMH, and have lower capacity than Li-ion batteries. But they can be recharged some huge number of times, so you can always have charged batteries ready to go.
Hugo
I would like to see manufacturers use standard cells and repairable connection systems (e.g. spring terminals instead of spot welded), so repair is at least possible. I have purchased a number of devices with user-replaceable 18650/21700 cells (flashlights, radios etc) and I see this user replaceability as a big benefit. Note that I don’t mean a design where the user would commonly swap the battery as a standard part of using the device – the cell should be charged in the device and only swapped for maintenance (and could for example be behind a panel retained with a screw).
Another avenue could be the use of safer cell chemistries such as lithium iron phosphate. Also, 18650/21700 cells with internal protection circuits are widely available.
Regarding the battery safety regulations (and voluntary regulations), this seems arguably relevant in consumer products – but if we’re talking about tools for professional use and/or where the tool itself can be dangerous (rotary tools, hot glue pencils, etc) the battery safety argument seems almost insulting. Use of the tool safely requires some level of awareness, education and self-responsibility; in such products having a user-replaceable cell seems acceptable. We aren’t talking about children’s toys!
Stuart
Lithium ion phosphate batteries are generally used for high capacity applications, and not high output. When you have higher output capabilities, it usually results from larger banks of batteries than one would need from Li-ion cells.
JR Ramos
I would love to see cell cradles, too, but doing so requires some adjustments to design that generally add cost and some complexity in assembly (seems like it should be opposite but to do it correctly, it does). Every li-ion round cell has some basic built-in protections – every one. The add-on electronic circuits you’re referencing provide some upstream protection against under and over voltage but they are also really limited in their current flow capacity (there are some better ones out now but still limited) so they are not suitable for many power tool needs in that aspect. Li-po isn’t a good choice for most tools either but it’s a good platform for a lot of things. But it can erupt in a volcano of flame just the same as a terribly abused li-ion can, too (different scenarios usually although I witnessed a drone crash at medium speed from around 20′ up and a few moments after hitting the ground, the li-po battery in it started smoking and then flamed up…thankfully no grass fire resulted from it. Most li-ion would not have done that in that circumstance.). Also have to account for water ingress in both design and the integrity of the same after a repair. I would love to see some “regression” to more easily replaceable cells, too, but I doubt it will happen. It is sadly amazing what the cluelessness of the curious general public can do with power density.
JR Ramos
And I say “most li-ion would not have done that” just because some of the old high cobalt ICR based cells could be more prone to venting, especially if well aged or highly stressed, than the couple of more modern and now almost standard li-ion formulations that have been used for years.
nate f
Built in battery means you can’t fly with it. You have to remove the lithium battery to put the tool in your checked back and they will almost certainly confiscate it if you try to bring the tool in your carryon. Heck you can’t even take your 3/8″ ratchet if it’s longer than 7″. I always carryon my batteries and check my tools to be safe.
CMF
So how do people get on the plane with their phone? Most phones today are sealed, no access to the battery.
TomD
I have some cheap Remington razor with built in battery and it’s been fine for six+ years.
I do like the idea of an iPhone with an M18 connector. Battery life for days!
CMF
In the “learn something new” category, I had no idea that a sealed Li-Io battery was not safe to carry around, or special care is required. I have 3 18650 batteries I got as extra for a flashlight. I treat them like any alkaline or similar type battery.
So these 3 Samsung batteries, within the scope of day to day things I might do with regular batteries but should not with these Li-ion batteries.
CMF
Just to clarify, what is it that just not be done or what special care is required?
I also forgot to mention on the main topic of removable batteries or not. I agree that each have their place but for me, non removable battery tools I generally avoid.
In many instances, I find they are for the apartment dweller or anyone who has little need for tools. (typically less expensive)
JR Ramos
If you don’t have it already, pick up some kind of little carry case for the li-ion cells if you’re mobile with them. There are plastic snap cases in lots of flavors for singles, doubles, and beyond…or there are stretch silicone covers that are more compact and mostly just cover the two end terminals.
The gist of it is that these have a LOT more energy in them than any previous consumer battery chemistry. Accidental discharge is the big risk, so shorting out the terminals can give you a huge spark at best or a venting or fireworks at worst. This can be done just on the positive end – don’t necessarily have to have each end in contact with something and that is because of how they are constructed. The positive end is a cap that is connected to the can and the whole can is negative. Where they meet there is a non-conductive insulating seal. The positive end sticks into the goop to provide the connection. The plastic wrapper on these cells is VERY important because it protects that top positive end against accidental contact/shorting. If that plastic wrap gets dinged up or torn on the positive end, which it will, then buy some extra shrink wraps and put a new one on if the old is compromised and too risky. If the bottom negative end or along the can is damaged a little it’s usually no big deal, but do be sure that the wraps are in good shape (this is definitely important for pockets or packs but in some devices it can also be an issue).
There is a built in safety feature in all li-ion round cells so that if there is impact damage to the top end or excessive heat from use or over-volt situations it will cut connection and interrupt any electricity flow – some also have low voltage interrupt but not all. You can’t really see this part from the outside very well, but it’s beneath the positive cap. There is also a thin foil barrier that is designed as a failsafe if the cell were to build up pressure so it will vent the gas/pressure from the front end. In really bad situations like punctures or huge impacts (or someone improperly destructively cutting one open for a look) you will also see sparks shoot out through that foil and positive end.
So that said, the metal positive terminal sits above that failsafe with very little space between. In factory cells it’s just thin flat metal but if you have a button top (like alkaline cells) then that is an additional layer added on by aftermarket suppliers. The factory positive terminal is pretty thin and easily dented – button tops add a little stiffness there. But if that end gets dented badly it may trigger the failsafe and “kill” the cell. When that happens it’s just time to recycle and get rid of it – do not ever attempt to pry it back up (sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn’t, but it’s literally playing with fire if you manage to short out the cell).
Additionally, most devices are made to where they will cut power and stop working when the voltage goes below a certain level (usually like 2.7 to 3.0 volts for singles). This is smart because if li-ion cells are drained toooo much further than that (or allowed to stay in that highly discharged state for awhile) it can affect the chemistry physically and effectively damage the cell. That will usually just be reduced performance or capacity but it can also create a self-discharge situation (where the voltage drops gradually but steadily while not being used or with any parasitic load on it) and that’s bad. Also, if that damage happens from really low voltage it can create issues when charging (especially charging at higher rates) and the potential is there to create overheating or venting/fire if the charger is dumb (or just not smart enough…difference). That’s worse with older tech cells but the better chemistries today can still suffer from it. No need to keep them fully charged all the time, just be sure to charge them up to at least 3.4 volts when they get low and if you’re going to let them sit unused for awhile.
Really it’s mostly about shorting things out and not letting the pixies inside react in an uncontrolled manner like shaking up a 2L bottle of ginger ale. But watch the plastic wraps and look at the positive end to make sure it isn’t dented badly (some devices will dent them slightly, that’s usually fine) and just protect them when not inside a device. Just slightly more care than alkaline. Best recommendation is also to never leave them unattended when charging…stay in the area, don’t do it overnight while sleeping, and remove them as soon as they’re full….just in case there’s some freak problem and the charger doesn’t do the job most are meant to do. If you drop one on a hard surface, give it a look over and if the dent is more than a tiny ding (anywhere) keep an eye on it, maybe consider recycling/replacing it…they’re semi-fragile in a way and meant to be used inside devices that give them some rigid protection so when using them loose like in flashlights, just take a little care & awareness. Don’t freak out if one gets dented or dropped because venting and fire is actually not easy to accomplish but it does remain a risk.
Hope that wasn’t too much info/too many words.
JR Ramos
This very old article has great photos if you want to see better how these are put together and understand. Most round cells are still put together exactly like this with little or no functional differences. If you see batteries with built-in usb charging ports or some “proprietary” flashlight batteries (like Olight and Nightcore and some others have been adopting) that have poles reversed or both on one end, etc, those are still normal cells inside and they’ve just tacked on additional components to do whatever. Same for “protected” cells which are just tacking on tiny circuit boards and a connector strip, but all on top of a standard factory round cell.
https://lygte-info.dk/info/batteryDisassembly5000mAh%20UK.html
CMF
No, not too much info. Actually just enough to know what I should and should not do…thanks
Bob
I despise tools, flashlights, shavers, tooth brushes, water flossers, desk fans…Everything with built-in batteries. I have a few, but will replace them as soon as I can find one with replaceable batteries. When your electric screwdriver goes dead, wouldn’t it be nicer to swap batteries than to wait for it to charge for 2-3 hours?
When the battery stops taking a charge, people will most likely throw them away.
People just don’t understand the benefits of 18650 and 14500 cells, which are hidden treasures in old battery packs. They’re much higher voltage than alkaline, and therefore you don’t have to shake your flashlight for it to come on.
Bradly
I just purchased the Bosch Go Gen 3 from…maybe zChina or Malaysia. From AliExperess. And I hope it actually gets here. and is real. I would rather it be purchased from a real store in the USA, but they don’t sell it here and I had to go to extreme measures.
I bought it to do electrical outlets and switches. But I also know it it will work for little loose screws, hanging pictures, and random cores around the house for the wife. I am not worried about the battery. If I get 6-7 years from this thing, I will be happy. My 2…5 cents because of inflation.