In recent years, professional power tool brands have been pushing the limits of what a cordless power tool can do.
Starting with Lithium ion battery technology, and then with brushless motor technology, brands have introduced new tools that would have been impossible just a few years ago.
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We’ve got cordless miter saws, nailers with air-like power, full-size cordless circular saws, drills that can bore hole out after hole without breaking a sweat, and a myriad of specialty tools that further help users cut power cord management out of their work and workflow.
You might have noticed that I tend to get excited about new technology. This is especially true for tools that are so innovative that they have the potential to change everything.
Dewalt recently teased us about a new “Worlds First” product development. There were lots of guesses, and some readers picked up on accidental leaks.
Well, it’s here – Dewalt FlexVolt is a brand new battery system that automatically changes voltage, depending on the tool it’s connected to.
At the heart of the new Dewalt FlexVolt system is the new FlexVolt battery, DCB606, which has patent-pending technology that makes it completely compatible with Dewalt 20V Max tools and chargers.
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Dewalt will also be unveiling a new line of 60V Max and 120V Max FlexVolt brushless power tools.
Take a moment to let that sink in.
Dewalt FlexVolt = a new 20V Max, 60V Max, and 120V Max compatible battery pack, and there will be new 60V Max and 120V Max FlexVolt tools that it’s designed around.
When used in a Dewalt 20V Max power tool, a FlexVolt battery should provide up to 4X the runtime.
Compared to Dewalt 18V NiCad technology, the FlexVolt battery should provide 3X the power. (Their words.) This is just to get a sense of power; the Dewalt FlexVolt battery is NOT going to be compatible with Dewalt 18V NiCad tools or chargers.
Dewalt FlexVolt battery packs will automatically shift to power 20V Max tools. In order to power 120V Max power tools, you will need to use (2) FlexVolt batteries.
Dewalt says that:
This means that high power tool applications that previously could only be accomplished by corded tools, can now be performed with the DEWALT FLEXVOLT™ system of cordless tools. As a result of this advanced battery technology, jobsites can now fully transition from corded to the freedom of cordless.
New Dewalt FlexVolt Power Tools
In addition to being able to power existing Dewalt 20V Max power tools, with the benefit being greatly extended runtime, there will be 5 new 60V Max tools, and 2 new 120V Max tools.
New 60V Max FlexVolt Tools
- Brushless 7-1/4″ Circular Saw, DCS575
- 4-1/2″ – 6″ Grinder, DCG414 (Amazon Listing)
- Reciprocating Saw, DCS388
- 1/2″ VSR Stud and Joist Drill, DCD460 (Amazon Listing)
- 8-1/4″ Cordless Table Saw, DCS7485
That’s right, a new cordless brushless table saw! I know what you’re thinking. Yes, a 10-inch saw would be more desirably, but maybe the 8-1/4″ blade size makes the saw more portable. But with 60V Max and 120V Max capabilities, maybe a 10-inch cordless table saw isn’t too far along.
Here’s a peak at the ones we could find early images of:
Ah, so it seems the FlexVolt angle grinder comes with interchangeable guards, for use with smaller or larger cutting and grinding wheels.
Wow, that’s a beefy drill.
Thanks to Mosh for the image leads!
New 120V Max FlexVolt Tools
As a reminder, these new 120V Max FlexVolt tools require the use of (2) 60V Max battery packs.
- 12″ Fixed Head Compound Miter Saw, DHS716
- 12″ Sliding Compound Miter Saw, DHS790
Whoa, cordless 12″ compound and sliding compound miter saws!
New 20V Max Products and Kits
There will be several new tools in the 20V Max lineup, including:
- Portable Power Station, DCB1800
- Bluetooth Radio Charger, DCR025
- Bluetooth Area Worklight, DCL070
- Hammer Drill & Impact Driver Combo Kit, DCK299, will be offered as a FlexVolt kit (Amazon Listing)
These tools are a little self-explanatory, but we’ll share more as we learn more.
The Dewalt DCB1800 Portable Power Station is already listed on Amazon, thanks to Marty and Corey for sharing the leads in our predictions post!
The Dewalt Portable Power Station is an 1800 Watt power station with 4 port parallel charger and operates on (4) 20V Max battery packs – or FlexVolt power packs – to deliver up to 15A of AC power!
In other words, the Dewalt Portable Power Station will power your AC tools!!
This is kind of like the Bosch Battery Bank, but it works with (4) Dewalt battery packs you might already have.
Here you could see a charger-in plug, and standard 3-prong outlet.
The product description says that the unit can handle 30A max, which probably refers to the unit’s potential to handle 30A inrush, or current surges. They say that the max AC output is 3600W, but the rated AC output is 1800W. Seems reasonable.
Wow. If the price is right, this might be a very hot product. Let’s say a 5.0Ah battery pack provides 90 Watt-hours of power. I believe Dewalt describes them as 100 Watt-hours, due to the 20V Max, but for the sake of this argument, let’s say it’s 90 Watt-hours. Times 4 equals 360 Watt-hours.
Let’s say an AC tool drawers 15A at 120V. That’s an 1800 Watt-hour load. So, ignoring any losses, and if my math is correct, this Power Station should power such a tool for 1/5 an hour, or about 12 minutes, on 4x 5.0Ah battery packs. And that’s with CONTINUOUS usage at maximum power draw.
Now let’s say you are using (4) FlexVolt battery packs, which Dewalt says should provide 4X the runtime. So that would be around 48 minutes, baring any power losses. Again, that’s at full power draw.
Update: I don’t think the 4X is in regard to the 5.0Ah batteries. FlexVolt provides 4X run time of Dewalt’s COMPACT battery packs. Each has 15 cells. It’s equivalent to a 6.0Ah 20V Max battery pack.
Are you excited yet?
Now imagine you’re connecting a portable table saw, miter saw, or other tool that isn’t quite available as a cordless version yet. The Power Station should provide a decent amount of runtime, and since the tools are drawing every bit of power they need, you get corded performance.
Even More
There will be new power tool accessories too.
Dewalt says:
In addition to the tools, FLEXVOLT™ High Efficiency Accessories™ are Engineered to Maximize Runtime™. This new line is optimized for use with cordless power tools and is engineered to deliver more cuts or holes per charge than standard DEWALT accessories.
First Thoughts
Wow. Not only do I find this news to be massively exciting, I think there is great potential for it to be influential.
FlexVolt is completely optional, for users who simply want more. More runtime, and more energy to feed power-hungry tools.
Now only that, but FlexVolt is completely backwards compatible with Dewalt 20V Max power tools. I imagine there might be some physical compatibility issues, but perhaps not. Maybe with some accessories and things like heated jackets where a bigger battery is simply impractical.
You don’t get 4X the runtime without any compromises. FlexVolt battery packs are (obviously) going to be larger than 20V Max battery packs, and so there are tools where they won’t make much sense, both from a demand point of view, and from an ergonomics point of view.
I am very eager to find out how much a FlexVolt battery will cost. If I had to guess, I would think each battery costs at least $200-250. At least.
Dewalt is probably betting that the FlexVolt system is so innovative and beneficial that it will impact the entire industry, and it very well might.
Let’s return our thought to the new 20V Max power tools. A Portable Power Station that can provide an AC power output! A new Bluetooth-connected area worklight! A Bluetooth-connected radio charger. Well, a new Bluetooth radio charger isn’t that exciting, but the area worklight and power station are.
And those new 60V and 120V Max power tools? Even more exciting.
I know there will definitely be a lot of interest in the cordless table saw. What do you think about the 120V Max 12V miter saws? The circular saw and reciprocating saw make sense. What about the 4-1/2″ – 6″ grinder?
I should point out that the 60V Max tools won’t be compatible with 20V Max Li-ion battery packs, or at least I’m nearly certain they won’t be.
Which of these new tools are you looking forward to?
What FlexVolt tools do you want Dewalt to come out with next?
Here’s my wishlist: FlexVolt cordless dust extractor, FlexVolt cordless 1/2″ router. Err, make that a 20V Max router. I think that a FlexVolt might not be too comfortable to wield around.
Albert
Any mention of brushless 20v circ saw, grinder, recip saw? Or do you think they won’t even make them and stick to 60v with those tools? If so that’s sad.
Dacan
Wonder how the 60v tools will perform against the best 18/20v tools from other manufacturers. If there is not much difference that means Dewalt needed more than 20v to compete. 60v seems overkill.
Chris
Pfft you can never have overkill with power tools! Especially if you’re a contractor using them all day.
Chris
https://www.instagram.com/p/BG6tEorlImh/
Doresoom
It’s a little hard to tell from the angle of the video, but that looks like a 3 Ah battery on the M18 saw. If it’s a 5 Ah battery, they’re at least being fair, since the 9 Ah isn’t out yet.
However, I’m not going to make any judgements on which system is better until I see a side-by-side of each of their latest releases – 9Ah high demand vs 60V max.
Chance
It doesn’t matter what AH battery is on the tool, it will not make the tool any more powerful.
Chris
You can put a 12ah on the fuel saw, she ain’t going to cut that fast.
philip
There will be 3x the power when compared to 20v.
3 x 20 = 60. They are doing it because a cord is number one complaints of pro’s.
Paul
I was invited to a demo day with the new flex volt tools. After using the grinder, reciprocating saw, and circ saw there is no need to even have a corded tool in either of these. The circular saw is even more powerful then my 13 amp corded circ saw. And the grinder sanded straight thru angle iron with a flap disc and never bogged down. This line blows away any competition of cordless tools and most corded tool competition. The 20v line does not compare. They are reasonably priced as well. They’re actually roughly the same price as the Milwaukee fuel line tools. I highly recommend the flex volt line. Above and beyond anything I expected.
Cr8ondt
Wow just wow, I’m very happy I bought into DeWalt YESTERDAY!!!!!!;
Cr8ondt
Been watching the TIA guys Parascope and HI Stuart!
BigDan
Haha good call!
Paul
This is awesome! Thank you for sharing.
I see that they have the 7 1/4″ circular saw that I have been waiting a long time for. However, I’m a little (very little) bummed that the 20V max batteries aren’t compatible with it. I am afraid that this may price it out of my range but I really want the larger blade just for the diversity of aftermarket blades available. I think I’ll get over it.
Dacan
Exactly what is the “Worlds First” claim? The battery that can change its voltage based on the tool that its plugged into? Cool sure, but who would want that monster 60v pack on a regular 18/20v tool?
Cr8ondt
I would lol!
BonPacific
The same people that are interested in Milwaukee’s 9.0ah batteries. There’s plenty of tools where the extended runtime is worth the weight. Like an SDS Drill or a Reciprocating Saw during demo.
I’m happy DeWalt is moving to a standardized battery pack for their whole lineup. It’s not mentioned here, but I don’t imagine the 40v outdoor line will survive very long. Then again, you can still buy 18v NiCad tools.
JC
Judging by all the sales and the fact that HD one of Dewalt largest distributors doesn’t carry the 40v line anymore, I’d wager you’re right that it won’t be around very long. They’re practically giving them away compared to debut prices.
BigDan
Yeah I was afraid of that myself with my 40v string trimmer and hedge trimmer. However they are worth it as a standalone system they perform so well.
JC I didn’t remember HD carrying the 40v, I know they’ve had the 20v since release. Lowes has stuck with the 40v and I noticed dropped the 20v early on, so maybe it was a deal they all worked out?
The 20v yard tool line may expand now, and use the flexvolt batteries for the more commercial use variants.
Dewalt did just release the dual 40v 7.5AH blower backpack a few months ago. It’s possible that they still plan to stick to that line.
It may make more sense to go dual battery like Makita does with their x2 system using 2 18v batteries. With dewalt using the flexvolt to run 2 of them at 40v each. However, that would only be 40v @ 3ah with 2 flexvolts? Where you can get 40v at 7.5ah now with the outdoor set’s single battery?
JC
They show as discontinued on the HD site. Batteries were on clearance a little while ago.
Drew M
The outdoor tools seems like the perfect place to use these FlexVolt packs. I’m willing to bet they have some new FlexVolt trimmers and such to replace the 40v ones.
Though, I’m very curious how they’re actually making this work. I was thinking mosfets or solid state relays that rewire the pack internally from 15s to 3s5p or 5s3p or something like that. I would bet that going from a high drain 5s1p to a lower per cell drain 5s3p would yield the claimed 4x increase in runtime since the effective cell capacities at the lower drain rate would be higher.
For brushless tools, being able to tailor the voltage to the required power range of a particular tool really helps with motor efficiency. Most people think higher voltage is universally more efficient but it just isn’t true.
philip
I can also put this new bat on my 20v blower and line trimmer.
Bremon
I’m interested to see if this is a better idea than Milwaukee trying to convince us that 9.0 M18 batteries are as intense as anyone needs. There will be interesting competition.
BonPacific
I agree, it will be very interesting to see how the initial 60v tools stack up against Milwaukee’s High-Demand tools. I imagine it will be very close, but the performance ceiling is a lot higher for DeWalt, so this may be a win for them in the long-term.
Lenny
Wow. I thought Dewalt was asleep at the wheel for a while. Now I know what they’ve been working on all this time. I’m so happy that this was not their version of Milwaukee one key which is just a techie gimmick to me. Somebody at Milwaukee’s headquarters, in China, won’t be too happy in the morning.
Stuart
Milwaukee Tool is HQed in the USA. I’ve been there twice, seen it with my own eyes.
Lenny
Yes but they are still owned by a Chineese company.
Jim D
TTY actually.
Jim D
Sorry, TTI. lol
Tool Merchant 12
There is, unfortunately, a shell game there. TTI (Milwaukee / RIDGID / Ryobi) is Chinese from the top to the knees. It is 100% Chinese owned and manufactured . They keep a few people(designers) in the U.S.A. employed, yes, but fewer than Dewalt or Makita. Both of which have plants in the U.S., like the Makita plant in G.A. , for example. Which is ok. It’s just a personal decision whether you want your paycheck wired to a nation that is proping up the North Korean economy so they can continue developing nuclear launch vehicles that can reach, well, Milwaukee. (Maybe if my Milwaukee Fuel tools emmited a radiation sheild i would fell differently).
Tool Merchant 12
I, for one, am excited to see another manufacturer going in the right direction in allowing users to stack battery packs. Makita is a good option, but their platform is the 2×18. So a 36v vs a 54 v(honest voltage= 60v – 6v lie) from Dewalt is welcome. One other consideration: higher voltage does NOT mean more power. But it does mean smaller gauge conductors are required to transfer the SAME power. Power being (Volt * Amps = Watts, recall). This means they can run cooler using the same wire size than a higher Amp, lower Volt tool (like an 18v drawing higher amperage), while delivering the SAME power. Circuit components are far less expensive at these lower amperages, so look for the Dewalts to have design and form-factor advantages in the future. …And you don’t have to send your paycheck to China to buy Milwaukee? Those that follow world affairs will sleep better. (Oh, and they are made in U.S.A. (from global materials) in many products.)
Insider
Wow, that’s quite a diatribe… Especially the part about North Korea! You clearly don’t have any idea about the ownership of that business stating that it is ‘Chinese’ owned. Yes the business is listed on the Hong Kong stock exchange, and yes Hong Kong is part of China but does that mean it’s Chinese owned? Absolutely not! While HK indeed become part of China since its return from the UK, it remains autonomous and does not have the same ownership rules as businesses in mainland China. Techtronic remains under the control of its majority owner and founder who is a German national.
See link below for an article about him…
http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurahe/2013/05/22/new-hong-kong-billionaire-horst-pudwill-emerges-as-u-s-housing-recovery-boosts-power-equipment-exports/#12c34c952ac2
Build it better
100% correct. Look at the percentages in the financial statements from TTI : 20 % year over year profit increase on their “Milwaukee” line. How do you do that: make people think you are a USA company; then charge prices like you are. Its worth keeping a front end presence in the usa when you turn profits like that.
But Makita and Dewalt both have series/ parallel battery platforms now. And they make sense. If Milwaukee insists on staying with an 18v only system, AND they want to match the higher power applications, there tools will get hotter, due to higher current being delivered in the 18v system. Higher temps mean shorter tool life typically. So idk how that 5 year warranty will shake out.
AND A BIG PLUS ONE FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT POINTED OUT 60 VOLTS IS NOT MORE POWER FULL THAN 20 V, OR 18V actually. GOOD CATCH!!
I almost forgot that myself in all the hype, and i’m am electrical engineer! That’s some marketing Dewalt!
Drew M
While it is true that you can get the same mechanical power from a 5s pack as a 15s pack, when it comes to brushless, you’ll need a much much larger and heavier motor to get that same level of power and the 5s motor will more than likely be significantly less efficient than the 15s motor at those high amounts of power.
Though, as I said above, at lower power levels, the 5s system can be more efficient than the 15s.
Logan
As an owner of a few tools in the Makita 18V line, all my tools are Chinese.
I spoke with a Makita rep recently, and he told me that the new tools are Japanese in origin, but shift to China once they “have it down”. When the 1090 in/lb drill came out, I bought one. It was Chinese. Didn’t have much time in the market for how he described it, and I think all my Makita tools are Chinese. Chopsaw, impact, drill, saw, radio etc. the difference for me is that while i fully and wholeheartedly support American manufacturing, I don’t expect a company from Japan to have loyalty to our workers like I would an American company like SBD, US based and incorporated.
I think Makita only does 5″+ grinder assembly here in the states. The beast 7-9″ grinder, GA7911, is Japanese in origin.
Whole point is, Makita runs a good sized manufacturing game in China. So does DeWalt. Most Stanley tools are still made there, along with almost all of Stanley Black n Decker, save a couple industrial brands. Dewalt only very recently brought jobs back to America from China, and Milwaukee does have US based manufacturing. The corded Sawzall units and their blades have stateside assembly.
Stuart
Milwaukee and TTi have factories in the USA.
Milwaukee employs a LOT of people in the USA and are almost continually hiring more.
TTi is a publicly owned corporation.
Jim D
Milwaukee has 2000 employees and DeWalt has more than 4 times that. Plus the majority of Milwaukee employees are white collar and DeWalt are blue collar.
These are numbers and information from my factory reps.
DeWalt is attempting to have over 80% of its SKU’s manufactured in the US by the end of next year. They also give a lot more back to the community, not just in liquid funds, but in giving a lot of jobs to war veterans.
Simple fact, if you want more of your money to stay in the states, more jobs to come back to the US, and want to pay less for the same level of tool, DeWalt is the way to go.
And don’t take this out of context, I actually prefer Milwaukee branded tools so it’s not like I am a DeWalt fanboy, I can just appreciate what they are doing.
philip
Dewalt has a patent on flex volt. Wonder if millwaukee will try to work around it and copy it. I could see this turn into apple vs android. ..And millwaukee paying patent right Infringement in USA.
Mr. Creek
Flex Volt, camping ac / swamp cooler, with detachable fan. And a poll saw to go with my new 20v hedge trimmers.
P.S. on the predictions post I was 100% correct.
JC
I am a Milwaukee guy for the most part with only a couple of dewalt tools. I have to take my hat off to dewalt for this. Milwaukee, this is disruptive innovation, not the disappointment that nps16 was.
I’m really glad I bought into 3 battery platforms,1 of which is dewalt. Maybe dewalt can get the sliding miter saw right and at a price not quite as ridiculous as what Milwaukee is offering.
Again, hats off to dewalt. This is a milestone in the history of power tools.
Dacan
Milwaukee seems to have chosen better technology instead of more power. Yes Dewalts 60/120V cordless tools sound sexy. I don’t think either approach is where we will be in 5 years. I would like to see more of a balance between technology and battery power.
Eagerly looking for a real world test to Milwaukees Fuel 18v 10in Miter vs Dewalts 120v 12in one. If the Milwaukee had a 9ah 18v pack and the dewalt had 2 5ah 60v packs, which one will cut more boards before power runs out?
Chris
Can you elaborate on the better technology comment, I’d like to hear your explanation
Dacan
High performance efficient motors.
BikerDad
High performance efficient motors? Oh, you mean BRUSHLESS motors, like EVERY TOOL in the 60V AND 120V Flexvolt lineup?
BonPacific
BikerDad,
Brushless is only a type of motor, there’s still a lot of room in terms of performance/efficiency within the category. The DeWalt’s will have more potential power with the higher voltage, but whether or not they achieve that potential with the first round of tools remains to be seen. In 5 years, after a generation of development, DeWalt will certainly have more powerful tools at 60v than would be possible for Milwaukee at 18v, but right now we can’t be so sure.
Chris
And as mentioned these new brushless motors were built and designed by dewalt themselves so I imagine the performance is there
john
Well all Milwaukee batteries will work on their M18 platform. I heard 60V batteries will work on 20V, but 20V batteries will not work on 60V
Benjamen
20V batteries will not work on 60V tools. So you need new batteries for the 60v tools
JC
The comment below says it all, it’s what I was ranting about in the fuel miter saw thread last week. Dewalt had the intelligence to allow they’re new battery powered saw to run corded and cordless.
That for me makes it no comparison. I don’t have to worry about my $700 saw becoming obsolete because a company wants to abandon a battery platform.
I get future proofing and corded performance from the dewalt saw as well as convenience and portability of battery saw. Unless dewalt rolls out a pos saw I don’t see how the M18 compares.
Paul
To that I would interject that Milwaukee has a strong history of supporting “obsolete” or legacy tools; you can buy new batteries from them direct from iterations fifteen years ago.
Tool Merchant 12
You are exactly right: we will have to WAIT for a real test. That will depend entirely on design, It could go either way. Remember, ( Power = Volts x Amps).
***54v IS NOT MORE POWER POWER FULL THAN 18v*** .
It is only higher voltage. We will need to see what Amperage each individual tool is to make that call. Then multiply that figure by 54v or 18v respectively, to determine actual power. Sorry Dewalt, but the truth shall set you free.
What could be the biggest game changer: my sources tell me several 120v tools are planned to be AC/DC, (which makes sense, because a brushless dc motor is essentailly an ac in operation). If Dewalt makes good on this, we could PLUG THE SAME TOOL INTO A WALL, THEN RUN OFF BATTERY WHEN AWAY FROM AN OUTLETT.
maimo
I understand the basic power triad (E=IxR) but in reality doesn’t 120v provide more power than 60v, than 20v, than 12v, than 7.2v? Leave the engineering figures out, a 9.6 v cordless is not as powerful as a 120v tool.
taras
NO. That is dependant on current draw. Higher voltage has the POTENTIAL for higher current flow, but only if the system is designed for it. Think of voltage in the same way as water pressure. Picture two water lines. Think of wattage (power =work/unit of time) as Gallons/min. High pressure with a small line give you X gal/min. Lower pressure with a larger line can still give you the same X gal/min. Where higher pressure (voltage) is good is if you can draw more current (larger water line), thereby increasing wattage (gal/min)
philip
The near future will again be a new battery. Called semi solid.
Will be cheaper … charge twice as fast. Last twice as long.
Will make electric cars comparable to gas cars. Dyson heavily invested in it.
Chance
The miter saw has the ability to run corded as well, I like that option for when you don’t need to be cordless but don’t want to bring another corded saw in, just plug in your cordless saw.
ILA
New 12″ miter is cordless or corded? How do you know this?
Chance
Because DeWalt said so. A line voltage adapter clips on in place of the battery.
Benjamen
Yep, according to one of the Product Managers I talked to, you can buy the miter saw with just the AC adapter too, so if you already have 60V batteries, or just wanted the ability to go cordless in the future.
philip
New 60 saws are hybrids.
Todd H.
Much better then Milwaukee’s pathetic lame one-key garbage. Way to go dewalt! And that’s from a Milwaukee fan.
mizzourob
So does this mean the 40volt pro lawn system is dead? They need an adapter to use a 60v flexvolt battery.
Chris
I think the 40 volt system will be around for awhile
Lenny
Good question. I just pulled the trigger on the 40v chainsaw (which I love) and now I wished I waited.
BonPacific
DeWalt has been good about supporting legacy systems in the past, so I don’t think the batteries will be going away (just look at the 18v NiCads) but it seems likely all new development will be on the FlexVolt platform.
I wouldn’t hold out for a FlexVolt-40v adapter though… If they didn’t mention it in the announcement, the batteries probably don’t have that intermediate (40v) switching, so it would have to be a 2X arrangement, which just seems like too much re-engineering to be reasonable for them.
JC
Dewalt announced a 60v chainsaw, blower, and trimmer. My guess is support will be short lived. I’d return a 40v tool if you still can. Glad I chose EGO ope.
Hopefully we can get a good mower on this new platform.
Benjamen
No 40V system is still around for the pro landscaper who needs more runtime.
mnoswad
looks like the 40v batteries are up to 6ah, while the 60v batteries are only 2ah ……at the moment at least?
so the 40v tools will run longer as said above. I think the longer run time is preferable when working with outdoor equipment. Plus im hoping dewalt comes out with a 40v mower.
Chance
Actually, the 40v batteries are up to 7.5 ah.
Nathan
so while everyone else made 6.0+ AH packs that were hard wired sets of parralell batteries – dewalt went a step further and put in the logic and control circuits to flip flop from paralell to series to allow the flexibility to drawing different volt requirements for the loads necessary.
and then designed some tools around the extra potential of more voltage to reduce the internal current demand reducing line loss and heat build up in the motors or controllers.
slick move – and a unique move. That power station intrigues the hell out of me and I bet there’s going to be a new cordless welder coming soon.
What I don’t see- will flex volt run the out door power equipment 40V stuffs. that would help sell it to me.
and I’d digging that angle grinder.
Benjamen
Nope no circuitry, there’s a hard switch on the pack that gets engaged when the tool goes on a 60V tool. the 60V is delivered through different contacts too.
BonPacific
Interesting, this makes me hopeful the batteries won’t cost and arm AND a leg, just one at a time.
Benjamen
I was told approximately $150 for a 60V battery.
Doug
That sounds like a good price, but hard to believe given that the 40 volt max batteries sell for $200-$270.
Nathan
HUH. What did the contracts look like compared to a 20V pack? Ie are there more contacts and are they bigger?
Jimmie
I realize that the batteries and contacts are contained within the housings but does increasing voltage to 60V or 120V introduce any new safety issues that folks who are used to 12V or 18V platforms need to be aware of?
BonPacific
I’m not an electrical engineer, but I can’t imagine there’s any added risk to the user. The terminals are recessed into the body of the battery. You would have to be doing something VERY stupid to even touch them, much less form a circuit to ground.
Also consider, EGO and WORX have had 56v platforms (same as 60v MAX) for a few years now, and those platforms are targetted at homeowners, who are not known for following safety regulations.
BonPacific
Sorry, I re-read your post, and noticed you had already mentioned that the contacts were contained in the housing. I didn’t want to come across as condescending.
Nathan
yes and no. that 18 V 6AH pack has the same potential in side the box. SO shorted wire, broken divider, ect can produce a 60 (54) Volt potential inside the box you have in your hand also.
ANd It’s been years since I looked but yes as the voltage increases the shock potential goes up – Like how you could tape wire to a C battery and then touch to your touch – nothing but lick the end of a 9V and buzz buzz.
so insulation between the lines- between the outside of the tool and motor – etc might need to be thicker but no worse than your corded products you use today. And those standards have been in place for years. SO I would say it’s every bit as safe as anything else on the market.
Drew M
I was actually just thinking about how all this is very convenient. Basically, 70v is where things start getting dangerous and where it becomes illegal in certain countries. 60v is high enough to be a bit scary but as far as I know, you can touch the contacts and you won’t get hurt/killed/etc.
I suspect this is exactly why the 120vdc tools will require two 60v packs. Dewalt probably can’t sell you a single 120vdc battery legally.
Tim
So in 20v max its a 6.0ah battery but in 60v max that would mean its a 60v 2.0ah battery and then two would make it a 120v max 2.0 ah system correct?
Nathan
More or less yes.
Cody
So Milwaukee’s 9.0ah 18 volt battery would be a 3.0ah 60 volt max battery
Nathan
also more or less – however they chose to hard wire the pack internally so that it can only produce 18V on the leads.
The key here is the dewalt pack and produce either 20V at the leads (18 nominal) or it can produce 60V at the leads (54V nominally) depending on what it’s connected to. ANd that I suspect is a pin config or a data handshake between the tool and the battery controller.
Side question – can the 60V FlexVolt tools work with a 20V pack – albeit far shorter run time?
philip
I would say no. Since they are wired different. Great question. But this is why they did not build all the hi demand saws in brushless. But I bet all batteries moving forward may have both series and parallel technology.
Build it better
108 volt, actually. Remember, that “20v MAX” is just marketing crap. Every 18v liion is 20v maximum. Once you start putting all those cells in series that gap between truth and advertising starts to show. Now you’re DOWN 12VOLTS all of a sudden, lol. It is close enough to 115v to run most 120v tools though.
So there are 3 strings in parallel in the battery at while it is 18v. If you multiply the voltage by 3 by putting the strings in series, then also deivide the capacity by 3. So you end up with a 54v battery with a third of the capacity it had at the 18v iteration. You don’t get something for nothing.
Nathan: I do not believe the 20v only pack will run the 60v tools. It would run them at a much slower speed, hypothetically , but the 60v has a different set of contacts on the tool, so they would not line up unless you jumpered them. Even then, the circuit has a minimum allowable voltage shut-off to keep you from damaging the battery after it has been depleted by ( x )amount. Unless you know how to bootload a microprocessor , you’re probably sol on that project.
mnoswad
I’ve been using the dewalt 780 12″ sliding miter saw a lot lately. I take if off the stand and lock it in a closet at the end of the day. Its a hassle to lug around and set up, so so a cordless 12″ miter seems like it would be just as heavy and cumbersome to lug around. A 10″ saw would appear to be a better choice for cordless portability. No saw needs greater vertical saw cup capacity than 6″ anyways.
But very interested in the cordless table saw, have been in many situations when I wanted to make a quick rip on something small rather than set up the 7491rs.
Does the power station clip on to the top of the tough cases? I would have liked to see a tough case looking design with a vented lid to cover the batteries, to keep debris out of the battery docks when not in use.
John Blair
You have my vote to win the internet today. The power station sure does look like it would clip on the top a tough systems box (which took it from “Hey I can charge 4 batteries at once” to “I want it”).
I agree about the size of the 12″ saw. I can’t imagine how much heavier a battery operated version would be.
Benjamen
Yes. Power station clips to the top of the tough cases
BikerDad
Brushless 60vMax 7 1/4″ TRACK SAW. Please, please, pretty pretty please.
michael douglas
i can guarantee, but can´t disclose as of yet !
Soulja44
Yes my man yes indeed hmm..while we’re at it could a 60v roofing nailer work? You for small installations idk
mnoswad
Thinking more about it more…….so Dewalt now has 20v, 40v and 60/120v specific battery platforms now covering general cordless, outdoor power, and heavy shop cordless uses.
My initial gut reaction is that i would prefer a single battery platform to cover all these uses. I like to keep my work systems streamlined and simple.
Chance
What many people seem to fail to realize is that ONE BATTERY does cover the 20V, 60V, and 120V platforms, albeit two of such batteries are required for the 120V. The only platform that’s different is the 40V and that’s just for outdoor power equipment, not many people on the job site are going to switch from there cordless miter saw to their weed whipper.
Taylor Lewis
Website is updated http://flexvolt.dewalt.com/en-us/products
Greg
Videos of new tools in action here!
http://www.multivu.com/players/English/7517855-dewalt-unveils-flexvolt-system/
(Sorry if already posted…wanted to get this out there)
Greg
Cr8ondt
Milwaukee’s Tweets are going nuts about their 9.0ah battery…… “#Heyguyslookatmey!!!” Might as well be their hashtag lol
Taylor Lewis
Lol I saw that, creating a whole Web page to diss flexvolt on launch day seems kinda childish.
John
Smart. Proactive to protect their business. Makes me wonder about this 60v stuff. Seems good only time well tell
Sam
It’s called educating the end user. Don’t believe all of the marketing hype when Milwaukee was the first to launch Li-Ion cordless tools in 2005 and has always been the leader in the category.
Chris
Milwaukee wasn’t the first company to launch lithium ion tools
BH
Actually it was Makita.
Cr8ondt
http://highdemand.milwaukeetool.com/
Its funny they compare their 9ah to DeWalt’s 60/20 6ah! Um the Yellow top is 9ah @ 20. And they just gloss over the fact that the FlexVolt’s are compatible with Almost every tool in the 20v max line.
BonPacific
They also throw in the con “20V packs DO NOT work with 60v tools”, except they are specifically comparing to the 60v battery that can run every tool in the 20v/60v/120v lines or even back to the 18v (with the stem adapter that seems like it should still fit)…
The marketing BS is strong here.
Lenny
That was interesting. How did they even know about it so soon? Seems kind of sleezy to me. I don’t recall anyone from Dewalt dropping pot shots against their new products during their product show last week.
Soulja44
Yeah to me company would only use those tactics when they feel threatened..hmm
Chris
Exactly it, Dewalt did a total leapfrog on them and they feel totally threatened now. It come or right after the Dewalt video aired…
MIke
You will also notice that Dewalt designed demos specifically targeted against Milwaukee tools, you didn’t see any yellow at Milwaukee’s media event.
It is not hard to tailor a demo specifically to exploit how one product is better than another. Look at the hole hawg demo or circ saw; the DW is significantly faster than the Milwaukee cordless hawg, but how many holes can be done on each? Same goes for the circ saw demo; DW smoked Milwaukee, but no one cuts that fast.
DW might have more power in some cases, but which runs longer? Both have their advantages, it depends on the user to decide what they want.
mattd
Overall I think this is cool, but not necessarily worth spending $1000+ to switch platforms entirely. This is not much different than makita’s 36v systems, it just combined both batteries into 1, which is nice in a compact sense but for a run time sense i don’t know if it will be all that worthwhile. As is 18v brushless 7-1/4 saws and 10″ miter saws are getting pretty good run times and high power, will 60v change that significantly? more power but less run time? I will say being able to plug in their bigger tools and run them off AC will be nice, but not that innovative as ryobi has been doing this for years with their weed eaters.
What’s the charge time on these batteries? at only 2AH for the 60 v draw you would be running the batteries down pretty fast i would think, and the bigger batteries usually don’t re-charge nearly as fast. maybe they will be slow on your “20v” chargers but on a flex charger it will charge it at 60v so it will still only be about a 30 min charge.
Mahalo
Correct me if I’m wrong, but one way or the other you are getting nominally 120 watt-hours out of a battery like this. This is either in 20V mode (20Vx6Ah) or in 60V mode (60Vx2Ah). Of course, those 20V numbers are the “max” nominal nomenclature, so reality is less, not to mention losses, etc. But it seems like you could run a small table saw for a decent amount of time if you put two of these batteries together.
Greg
Miter saws have an adapter to run as corded models when needed! Wonder if that will be an option for all flexvolt tools….
https://www.instagram.com/p/BG6uQZzExEY/
Eric
If the adapter just plugs into the battery packs slot I don’t see why it wouldn’t be able to work on other tools.
Chance
Because the adapter slips onto the dual battery slots of the saw, other tools only use one battery.
Benjamen
The adapter is only for a 120V tool. it has special contacts on the tool, it doesn’t use the battery contacts
BonPacific
Did they mention if the AC adapter would work for the Table Saw as well?
Cody
No only 120 volt tools
Cody
Dewalt 120 volt miter saw 289 cuts on 3 1/4 base Milwaukee fuel miter saw can beat that with a 9.0 ah battery!
Chris
Yes but the Dewalt is a full 12″ miter saw with more power
Cr8ondt
And can also run on AC!
Lenny
Dewalt is releasing 9 amp hour flex volt batteries beginning next year. Sorry Milwaukee, you will need something else to hang your hat on.
Cody
Dewalt 60 volt flexvolt chainsaw https://youtu.be/1pOW4XhaTug
BonPacific
Love the guy’s expression when he finishes the cut. “Did that just work?”
Adam
That’s one of the two 60V tools on my wish list. Now just need a mower on the same platform.
DC
This is a game changer indeed. I have a 6 year old Makita set and the drill is dying so I went a bought a Milwaukee M18 Brushless hammer drill. I had my eye on the Milwaukee cordless sliding compound miter saw that’s due for release in September but maybe I’ll hold off and check out the Dewalt instead.
Cody
Dewalt 60 volt miter saw at 1 minutes and 7 seconds and also a 60 alligator saw in UK https://youtu.be/u90EFqraRrI
Taylor Lewis
New 20 volt adhesive gun?
https://www.instagram.com/p/BG7IKJRH13h/
Adam
Looks like I’ll be returning my Dewalt 40v chainsaw, blower, and trimmer we just bought (90 day satisfaction guarantee, which seeing new tools is always a satisfaction ball buster). I was already contemplating returning after seeing the Milwaukee outdoor line. The only thing missing was a chainsaw. I already have Milwaukee 12/18v gear, so it made much more sense staying with the same battery line, but I’ve always read they were staying out of OPE, so I chose Dewalt. I think I’ll stick with Milwaukee tools for now, but I want to switch to the Dewalt 60v chainsaw for sure.
Dacan
While I would love battery powered tools, I worry about the longevity and durability of them. My gas backpack blower, trimmer, and push mower all are still working perfectly after 10yrs of heavy use, only needed a new spark plug. Is a battery version that costs 2-4x still going to be working in 10yrs. If after 5yrs it still works but the battery is dead will you still be able to buy one.
Wonder what the savings is between power needed to charge a battery vs the cost of gas used by lawn tools.
Cody
Dewalt has a 60 volt blower and 60 volt string trimmer too. I posted the link in a comment below.
Larry
I can’t wait to come back to this in a few months and realize that as usual, DeWalt, like Black & Decker, likes to fluff numbers and use “marketing” to sell their platforms. The big numbers like 120V won’t matter when a Milwaukee 18V with 9Ah can do more than these 60 and 120V units.
Chris
Ha-ha I wish Milwaukee luck trying to get a 18 tool to perform like these can… Sure it might havea little better runtime but the power isn’t there. Plus they have a 9ah 60 volt that should match the runtime of the smaller 20v tools but still have much more power…
Mike
Sorry but Milwaukee 9amp battery won’t even come close so take Chinese crap back to China
Bremon
Is Dewalt making USA batteries using cells that aren’t sourced from Korea or Malaysia now, or is this just nonsense/ignoring the “global components” part of “made in USA”?
Dacan
Enough with the Dewalt USA nonsense. Yes their tools are assembled in the USA but almost all the parts are made elsewhere including China. As detailed on this site, Milwaukee uses Samsung cells and Dewalt batteries are Sanyo cells. Where do you think those Sanyo cells come from?
Diplomatic Immunity
From ‘Merica! Lol. Seriously though this is why I HATE when people bring up made in the USA vs China vs other places garbage. They should be asking themselves how good is quality control.
Chance
How is it nonsense??? They are employing American workers to assemble their tools at manufacturing plants here in the states. A rep told me that the motors and trannys are made here in the states. Sure some of the electronics and whatnot is from overseas, but there are still a lot of parts manufactured here.
Jay k.
You guys are ridiculous, you haven’t even used the product yet. Very petty…
Nathan
doesn’t matter right? if it’s not what I buy then it’s wrong. applies to everything.
now politically speaking my issue with milwaukee isn’t so much made in _______ as they have some things made here and abroad. It’s more that TTI their parent is headquartered in another country – thus profit from the sale of milwaukee items ends up in another country – at the headquarters level. Yes some tax money stays here – but not all of it and probably not even most of it.
Dewalt – or SBD is headquartered here in USA – they have to pay US corporate taxes – and they continue to do so. Therefore I do politically, like them better. I still say milwaukee makes some good kit – but you can’t deny that so does dewalt.
Bob
Love my milwauke tools.
Dacan
When is someone going to come out with a battery powered riding mower….
Me
General Electric did 45 years ago.
http://www.myelec-traks.com/history.html
Matt J
I think the 20v comparability is what makes this a grand slam. Having just bought into it myself I was mortified that it might just be like the 18-20 switch and I’d end up stranded.
Nathan
huge +1
Cody
60 volt blower, 60 volt string trimmer, 60 volt sds, 60volt alligator saw, 60 volt chainsaw! https://youtu.be/uB0rTTOeXWI
Chris
Unreal the amount of tools unveiled on the new system, incredible…
Chris
Here’s a test of the circular saws, watch how fast the new circular saw cuts…. Crazy
https://www.instagram.com/p/BG6tEorlImh/
Lance
Meh. 90% marketing. The average user will never be smart enough to look at the statistic that actually matters, the battery capacity in Watt-hours. DeWalt knew this when they came up with the 20V Max BS, which is and always was just another 18V battery.
Their 20V/60V Max 6Ah pack still only has 108Wh of energy (same as Bosch’s upcoming 6Ah 18V pack, but will be much larger and weigh more with 50% more cells). After all the early adopters jump in, they will offer a 9Ah version of this pack that will have the same 162 Wh as Milwaukee’s 9Ah 18V pack.
It’s all about energy capacity, not voltage. As long as nobody learns that, DeWalt will keep selling based on marketing.
Cr8ondt
They announced 2 packs both 20/60 in 6.0 AND 9.0 black top is 6 and yellow top is 9
Chris
The 9ah hour pack was announced as well… But you don’t get it. These 60 volt tools out perform the 20 volt tools, watch some videos on Instagram from a few different guys from the event, the 60 tools have the juice, Milwaukee can only best them in runtime, but without the same performance.
Dacan
Is there any video evidence showing them besting the top 18/20V tools on the market?
Chris
https://www.instagram.com/p/BG6tEorlImh/
Benjamen
You have to remember that all companies design their their to make their products look better than the competitors.
Chris
Higher voltage means more power, it’s pretty simple… The amp hour isn’t there on the 60 volt tools like a 20 volt tool, but the power is there. There is no way a 20 volt tool will have the same power, little better runtime… probably….Power wise, not even close
Dacan
Not necessarily, there are many more factors that determine performance than just Voltage.
Bremon
If we want to do napkin math, then 60VMax being 3x as much power as M18, then the inverse AH math to get runtime would mean more than just “a little” bit of extra runtime.
Chris
The battery only weighs .75 lbs more then a dewalt 5.0ah pack
Cr8ondt
And if I saw right the FlexVolt’s can charge in existing 20v chargers…. albeit very slowly lol.
JC
All I know is that I saw I’ve seen both companies sliding miter saw cut through a 4×4. The Milwaukee was definitely struggling more than the dewalt.
The Milwaukee looks to get more cuts but has smaller cut capacities because of blade size and configuration.
But wait, the dewalt gives the option to use AC power if available, something Milwaukee should have done. So for me I can leave it plugged in my shop 80% of the time while still having the ability to go cordless when the need arises. Not to mention once flexvolt goes away I still have a useful saw wit AC power. With Milwaukee I have the worlds coolest paperweight. Maybe Milwaukee will make an adapter like flexvolt has and then all will be forgiven.
Bremon
Yeah the mitre definitely goes to Team Yellow so far. I wouldn’t hesitate to buy it/get FlexVolt just because when the batteries go away I wouldn’t need to worry.
BikerDad
DeWalt knew this when they came up with the 20V Max BS, which is and always was just another 18V battery. – Lance
Yea, those folks at DeWalt are such horrid poseurs for doing such a thing. At least we know that Milwaukee/Rigid/Ryobi are stone cold honest, they wouldn’t DARE to sell based on inflated marketing claims. Right?
12v Fuel. Which isn’t 12v.
Your diatribe sounds a lot like the pissing and moaning that goes on between sportbike squids and cruiser pirates about who has “more powah.” What matters isn’t the raw numbers, it’s whether or not the power available meets the usage profile.
kiftsz
Any talk on other brands coming in with a cordless table saw? I know a lot of guys with Bosch jobsite saws.
Also, the full size miter saws (10″ and 12″), and the table saws have huge potential as cordless products. So many people own them, and like circular saws, it would be easy to see the market for them expanding to consumer brands (some already have the smaller saws). Although most guys I know with jobsite table saws, or high end cordless tools are pros, some are DIY guys with cottages. For them, the extra cash was more than worth the hassle of hauling a heavy saw in, or even worse having the tool not be up to the job.
I have no problem with the 8 1/4″ saw size, a smaller, lighter table saw would be great for a lot of jobs, especially ones where the saw is used primarily to rip 1″ and 2″ materials. Only downside would be not as good of a selection for 8 1/4″ blades.
Jay k.
I had the dewalt 36volt set – they claimed “power of corded without the cord” – it was a decent set, but so heavy I didn’t want to use it. 120volt cordless systems seems way too heavy to be practical, if you need that much power you probably have temp-power or a generator on sight anyway as you would need it for other things. I love new tools, but time will tell if this was a big deal or a waste…
BikerDad
The 120v cordless application look to be focused on benchtop tools, not handhelds. As a result, the weight penalty of the batteries is minimal, unless one insists on carrying EVERYTHING from one’s vehicle into the jobsite in one trip. Even then, the extra weight of two batteries while you’re toting the tool? I’d venture that the 12″ slider w/ packs is still lighter than the Bosch 12″ Glide.
Lance
Also funny that DeWalt is abandoning its new 40V OPE lineup. I wonder how many people are getting burned with that deal?
Not too different than when they abandoned their first line of Lithium Ion powered hand tools, dumping the “plug in” interface for the Makita/Milwaukee style slide packs.
How quickly we forget… 😉
Chance
Where have you read that they are abandoning the 40V line?
Cody
Dewalt is releasing 60 volt string trimmer, 60 volt blower, and a 60 volt chainsaw
Chance
Yes I know. But again I ask, where has DeWalt stated that they are discontinuing the 40V line?
Cody
They didn’t but I’m sure that is there plan or they would have made the battery be compatible with their 40 volt line. Why would someone buy into the 40 volt lawn line when they could buy the 60 volt string trimmer and use the same battery on their Dewalt drill.
Lance
Abandoning and discontinuing are two different things. By abandoning, I mean there will be no more product development for their 40V OPE line. Those who invested, many of whom paid HEAVILY, are now stuck with those tools.
The new 60V tools will not be compatible with their 40V batteries. One year on the market and done…
And if history repeats itself, those 40V batteries will end up more expensive than the newer 60V units. Convenient.
Cody
Dewalt abandoned their 36 volt of tools and pretty much the same thing with their 12 volt max line of tools and older 18 volt nice line of tools.
jtr165
People keep saying this, and I can’t really understand the reasoning for it.
The 40v line has a massive advantage in capacity. The only flexvolt battery shown so far is 2.0ah when used in 60v tools…40v’s go up to 7.5ah currently. There are also some tools already announced that appear to not be capable of housing a bigger battery box. The flexvolt table saw can’t ‘fit’ a larger boxed 60v from what’s shown in the video (it slides into an enclosure)…This is also way before knowing the amperage of the flexvolt systems, where the 40v line may in fact be more powerful.
Either way, if I had to guess i’d say its the 20v outdoor equipment that will be dropped from development. The 60v flexvolt line will take over that…and the 40v’s will remain as a specific product line where run time is the most important. The 40v line was always targeted to commercial landscapers, and the products available circle around that…the flexvolt batteries will quickly get huge to match capacity, and then seemingly won’t operate in certain flexvolt tools.
I mean the main concern overall should be 20v max tools in general…the 40v’s are a different product for different purposes. Flexvolt could very likely be the beginning of phasing out the higher end 20v max XR line. They’ll keep selling the normal 20v max tools, but XR will probably turn into flexvolt stuff sooner rather than later…
jtr165
EDIT: NM, does appear that the table saw has room for a bigger flexvolt battery, just watched the video again.
Benjamen
The Dewalt reps said they are not abandoning their 40V lineup.
Lance
Have a look at Home Depot’s website. It doesn’t matter what a DeWalt rep says if all the retailers have stopped carrying their product! Hint: DeWalt 40V stuff is listed as “discontinued” at Home Depot.
Chance
Because one retailer stops carrying the line that convinces you that DeWalt is abandoning it?? Look at Acme then, they still carry the full line.
Raya
This will fill in the major gaps for trim carpenters that exist now in cordless tools, the battery bank will allow for use of a very small compressor to run a 23 gauge pin gun with and the table saw will work for ripping fillers and the like. When working in a large commercial space with power hard to find this will speed things up quite a bit. I’ve been getting along with my 18v Dewalt and M12 tools for years now but this gives me the motivation to go Dewalt completely.
I’m also really psyched about the runtime on the cordless circular, when doing rough framing. Right now I use my Paslode cordless framer but have to use the generator a lot for cutting as the cordless 18v don’t cut it for runtime. Running the generator less would be a big plus.
mike
not to confuse
in Europe the 60V max is 54V max
these product are IDENTICAL; just a country specivic marketing scheme
having said that
introduced in Europe today:
the cordless alligator saw
DCS397
look here :
http://futurejobsite.dewalt.co.uk/products/alligator-saw
I know of many more tools to come / already seen pics
cheers
Dacan
So then its not really 120V its 108V….
Nathan
yes technically correct but also know your 120V plug is actually 115 (or some number between 110 and 124 depending on the load.
that variance isn’t much.
Cody
They are actually 54 volt tool with a 60 volt max reading with no load to the battery the same as Dewalt’s 20 volt max tools are really 18 volt. It’s a gimmick and in the UK the have to state the true voltage on the battery
Matt J
How many people are “fooled” though? Probably close to zero, if an uninformed consumer looks into purchasing tools they are generally pushed in a direction by exposure, not numbers. People buy craftsman because it’s the name that’s been idolized by the home mechanic for years, not the teeth in a ratchet or actual quality. I’d argue that the same applies with the 18/20v “controversy”.
But I’d be fine comparing the 54/60v to that offered by competitors… Which is 18 or 18×2 for makita… I’m not gauging the advantage in any way because I haven’t touched them, but most people can tell that a green apple is still an apple and an orange is definitely not an apple.
mike
to add in one more
SDS Hammerdrill
http://futurejobsite.dewalt.co.uk/products/sds-plus-hammer-drill
PLEASE note: they also speak of the 9,0ah battery pack !
Chris
There is a bunch of 20v tools too… The dispenser gun, new metal cutting shears, crimp tools, caulk gun, metal to metal stapler and a bunch of others… Nobody has even discussed them yet lol
Cr8ondt
heck i was just happy about the FlexVolt backward compatibility!! But ya there are just a ton of new tools. And to think I almost bought into Milwaukee, but I snagged a DCF887 kit for next to nothing! and knowing there was big news today just makes me happier to be in the DeWalt family 😛
Eric
Where can we find a list of all the new tools?
Cr8ondt
I don’t know of a list per se but twitter is going nuts with event coverage and DeWalt.com has some highlights.
Benjamen
Everybody is exhausted, it was sweltering in the hanger the event was in and they introduced a ton of tools. Be patient, we still have another 3/4 of a day with Stanley, Porter Cable, and B&D tomorrow.
Eric
Whats exciting about a bluetooth work light? What are you going to do with bluetooth? Turn it off and on remotely? At least with the bluetooth radio there is a chance you could stream music to it from your phone.
pete
So milwaukee told us that with the large packs they can get better run time because power is being used from all the cells together putting less load on each cell and less heat which should make the battery last longer not only per charge but for the life of the battery as well.
The dewalt 60v packs run in is a series to create 60v will be discharging at a faster rate and putting more strain on the battery because at 60v it’s not a “hi-cap” battery is essentially a 2ah pack at 60v.
I would bet that these new dewalt tools won’t have much of an advantage on power or run time like some would assume that 60v is leaps and bounds better than 20v.
Not saying that the tech isn’t cool or bashing it because it is cool. Being able to use a cordless tool in a corded mode is very cool.
Dacan
This thought also occurred to me to and it will be interesting what Dewalt has to say about the batteries heating up. In the highest draw 60/120 tools under prolonged use that battery pack is going to generate a lot of heat, which like you said could degrade the cells. Do the tools have circuitry to cut the tool off if the battery pack gets too hot like the saftey measures in most of the Milwaukee tools? If so will be interesting in real world conditions how often you hit this wall.
Chris
Your going to have a pretty big advantage power wise, just shorter on run time… there is always a trade off. The thing is though you get a new high power lineup of tools with pretty good runtime doing some big tasks as shown in all the tests and pictures and you also get a high capacity 20v battery like the Milwaukee. It’s really hard to argue against the battery and tech, Milwaukee has nothing like this on the market tool wise…. Just a high capacity battery
Chris
I don’t think marketed the 60v being a high capacity battery on the 60v tool but it would be in a 20v tool
Cody
What Milwaukee thinks of dewalt’s flexvolt vs the m18 9.0ah battery. http://highdemand.milwaukeetool.com/?gclid=CNa_xsnxuc0CFQUFaQodw3gMOQ
BigDan
That comparison looks just like the govt trying to use statistics!
Cr8ondt
Scroll up I already posted that 😛
Chance
Of course Milwaukee would compare their 9.0 battery to DeWalt’s 6.0 instead of the 9.0. Apples to oranges. . . . . .
Tyler
Or you mean their 18v to a 60v. Oranges to apples….
BigDan
If I can find a rationalization for that battery station I’m totally getting one.
I’ll have one by christmas for sure 😉
Bremon
That thing, to me, is the star of the show.
Jay k.
Very cool – but what’s the price???
Chance
I’d like to know more about the new Flexvolt radio. It looks pretty sweet, but haven’t heard any specs yet. It’s crazy to think that DeWalt has, what, 6 radios on the market right now.
Diplomatic Immunity
I could see this being influential sure. I’m still unclear on what a slapped in 60v does to a normal 20v say drill or impact driver. Do you get torque out of it or just longer run time? IF it’s just longer run time on 20v tools then I don’t see why people would be comparing it to Milwaukee’s one key which allows a user to change the tool variables like how much power it has.
Cool that you can slap batteries into whatever tools and have the tools work. But not really excited over this. NOW if it worked as a combination of flexible batteries across different tools AND allowed you to choose the parameters in how a tool operates, then I’d be more excited. Like say slap a 60v into a hammer drill and change the output to like 2000 in lbs. at a sacrifice to run time.
Also I can’t imagine these batteries being too cheap.
JC
Because I’m sure the Milwaukee 9ah packs will be so affordable. This is coming from a Milwaukee fan.
Diplomatic Immunity
And what does this have to do with my comment? I never even mentioned or said Milwaukee 9ah batteries would be cheap. And this is coming from a non-Milwaukee fan.
JC
You stated the cons you see with flexvolt and said you can’t see the batteries being cheap. You also mentioned one key like features added to flexvolt would be cool. I took that as you saying you are a fan of Milwaukee if you’re a fan of their technology.
So I was just saying that overpriced batteries aren’t unique to flexvolt.
JC
What about using the 60v battery in the slide pack adapter for 18v ni cad tools? Is this possible for those in this situation?
Cody
Probably. I wounder if the corded battery adapter for the 60 volt the makes it run on corded power will work on the 20 volt line.
Chance
There is no mention of a corded power supply for the 60 volt tools, only the 120 volt miter saw.
Cody
My bad. Well they need a 60 volt adapter for people who have the 60 volt table saw
BonPacific
Apparently it used separate connectors, so it isn’t just a AC-DC converter, so the tool has to have been designed for it from the beginning, which seems unlikely if they didn’t show it off.
Jay
Brushless 7-1/4″ Circular Saw, DCS575, this is what I want to see.
Chance
Has this post won the title of “most comments”? It seems to be up there for comment count.
Cody
Probably so the amount of comments is crazy.
Mahalo
Holy smokes, just saw the video and I was excited, even though I am personally highly unlikely to get into the flexvolt line (just because of my usage not needing it). The backwards compatibility is such a great feature that doesn’t screw existing users over, which I thought was great. On second thought, one potential application that *might* interest me is the added flexibility in tool placement within the shop without need for new outlets or extension cords. Want to drag the table saw outside to rip some lumber that doesn’t fit in your garage? No problem, no heavy gauge extension cords required. DIYer not yet ready to get a subpanel in the garage to power some high draw tools? Don’t worry about it.
Nate 818
I like how it enhances the existing tool line. I hope Milwaukee does the same if they jump on board once that patent runs out and they knock them off. I’m already all in for milwuakee and I don’t see buying a whole new set of tools. Props to dewalt for a great idea.
Cody
SINCE 2013 PANASONIC power tools has had dual voltage tools that can run off 14.4 volt batteries and 18 volt batteries. https://youtu.be/1GBGZBCaM38
Aaron
Hitachi 18v tools have been compatible with 14.4v batteries as well, since at least 2010.
Jay k.
I cant stop thinking about this subject – but all the high voltage cordless tools seem to be only niche worthy. Dewalt, bosch, makita – all have 36v tools, milwaukee with 28v, even ridgid with their 24v line. How much attention do these tools get and if you have an ac adapter doesnt that kind of defeat the cordless idea in the first place. Again time will tell – but i have a feeling the price will not justify the purchase, especially after the hype dies down…
Robert Pelak
Does anyone know what the amp hour of the battery is when it’s at 60v?
Cody
The 6.0 ah battery at 60 volt is only 2.0ah’s.
Leo Smokeson
No mention of what type of Lithium cell they are using??
Metabo and Bosch are both running with High density Lithium cells these days which outperform standartd lithium cells anytime.
Anyone know what type of cells this latest tech from DeWalt uses??
Benjamen
18650 for the 2Ah cells, but 2700 for the 3Ah
JC
Found some pricing over at coptool in their post
http://www.coptool.com/dewalt-flexvolt-cordless-20v-60v-or-120v-power/
Chance
Good find.
David
looking on DeWalt’s UK website and found mention of a new SDS plus and 9ah batteries.
Cody
And a 60 volt alligator saw in the UK and I also saw a 60 volt string trimmer, 60 chainsaw, and 60 volt blower in another countries dewalt video.
Andrew
Guys, guys. Power and run time. It’s not that hard.
Power is watts. 15 of the same cells, regardless of configuration, can produce a certain amount of watts. Now put them all in series, and you can make the same power with smaller contacts and wires. That’s an advantage, but not that big of one. Motors can be designed to efficiently produce all kinds of power at a range of voltages, and both 18 and 54 are within that range for these tools.
Run time is watt-hours divided by your draw in watts. 60V tools should have no disadvantage at the same power output.
Not mentioned yet is that Dewalt’s 6.0 flexvolt battery probably has cells that can kick out 22 amps, while their 9.0 and Milwaukee’s 9.0 battery have cells that can only do 15A continuous. There’s a 47% power advantage.
chris
So the dewalt 60v batteries can put out and handle more amps continuous draw then the high capacity milwaukee?
Andrew
More watts. Milwaukee should be good for 45 amps at 18 volts. Dewalt 22 amps at 54 volts. Quite a bit higher power. But at full draw on the Dewalt, runtime would be 5 minutes. I doubt any tools are designed for that, but it does give them higher peak output.
Andrew L
What’s the record for the number of comments on one post for toolguyd?!
Cody
This one!
Chance
I just wanted to be comment number 200. Carry on. . . . .
Diplomatic Immunity
Hmmm. The old 5.0Ah batteries won’t work with any of the new Flexvolt tools even the small ones? Bummer.
Chance
I really don’t see the down side to this, and I have 20-25 20V tools. If you want a new platform you have to buy into it. This is actually a bonus as the batteries that you get with these tools will work with your existing tools. You should be more ? than ?.
Biff
The fact that we get backwards compatibility with new batteries is pretty awesome.
Expecting your old batteries to work with entirely new high voltage tools is probably a bit much.
Adam
Damn! $400 for the power station?
I love it but will wait for a deep discount on that one!
glenn
Dewalt Australia’s website shows the Flexvolt alligator saw and a 216mm mitre saw, DCS777, which I haven’t seen mentioned so far.
Just scroll down the page.
http://www.dewalt.com.au/xrflexvolt/
Adam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB0rTTOeXWI
Wow
Chris
After seeing that video, if you can get a new Milwaukee fuel miter saw to cut boards that fast with very little load like that and the fuel circular saw to cut 3/4 osb triple stacked that fast and not break a sweat, I’d love to see it. It’s not going to happen. Until Milwaukee or anyone else steps up the voltage to 60v or something, the Dewalt will have more power…. Maybe not the runtime, but none of these tests were done with the 3ah batteries just the 2ah…. So runtime might even be equal with the bigger ones plus a big power advantage…. Dewalt just leapfrogged everyone and that’s just the way it is
Adam
1 :36 SDS MAX 60V
2:19 60V garden lineup
Travis
I love these new options and will certainly be getting the table saw. Being a trim carpenter and already having the 7 1/4″ 20v saw, I don’t need much else.
BUT…. WHERE IS MY DAMN 20V 18GA NAILER!? 15ga nailer? Pin nailer? Caulk gun? ugh.
*places 18v battery back on charger, yet again*
RX9
Multi voltage batteries! I wish I’d have thought of this. A novel and more elegant solution than Makita’s double battery X2 system. Many customers hesitate to buy into higher voltage systems because they are often orphaned after less-than-stellar sales. With this, that risk is eliminated.
Dewalt is getting its mojo back!
kevin
guys i am running the Dewalt DCD996 with 5.0AH battery’s how much of a big different will these new Dewalt will these new Dewalt Flexvolt 60V lithium-ion batteryss ? is it worth the cost ?
Also if i reading it right they will be bring out a 9,0AH version of Dewalt Flexvolt batterys and when is this and how much ?
anyone know
Industr
-battery is big /heavy and pricey
-a lithium battery degrades and loses capacity over time , AC outlet last longer :- )
– power outlets everywhere
-2T / 4T small engine is lightweight powerfull and long lasting.
Todd
Disappointing that there are zero brushless 20 volt tools announced. Love a 20v brushless circ saw that I can use my current batteries in.
victor
Maybe I missed it but does anyone know what the “charging times” are in respect to each platfrom……………thx…………..victor.
Greg
New FlexVolt Tracksaw
Just saw this. Variable speed on a circular saw? Interesting.
http://professional-power-tool-guide.com/power-tool-forum/index.php?/topic/10370-dcs520-track-saw-plunge-saw-flexvoltsystem/
Jacob
Dewalt needs to ‘FINISH’ one thing before starting another. I demand a brushless recip saw to use my current 20v batts in or I will never invest in a new dewalt platform again. Just my thoughts.
victor
WOW — did someone mention a “brushless” recip dewalt saw………….tired of hearing about it……………..when and where…………….victor.
victor
HI Stuart – I’ve heard from both sides but still am a bit puzzled, a 60V dewalt battery {or 54V} has 3 times the power of a 20V but does this translate into 3-times the torque which I think is wrong or is the extra voltage a bigger gas tank. I know that going from 2ah to 4ah provides additional torque. For instance I believe that the bosch 32V and or 36V probuces the same amout of torque as the 18V Brute. I myself am very happy to see “the cord” become a thing of the past, I’ve had my share of injuries……………you’re response will be greatly appreciated……………..victor.
Stuart
Not necessarily.
I presume that FlexVolt tools were designed to match the motor speed and performance of corded tools. FlexVolt batteries are designed to meet the power needs of the tools.
Does 3x the voltage-rated motor mean 3x the torque? Not necessarily. Speed and torque capabilities do increase with higher voltage.
Going from 2Ah to 4Ah does NOT provide additional torque – most of the time. Milwaukee’s drills benefit from an XC effect where they will see a boost in power performance of ~10% when going from compact to XC battery pack. This is because the XC packs can deliver greater current to the motor.
Peter W W
Sadly , I believe it built on a flawed system
The mounting system of DW 20V batteries (clearly the same as the 60) have left me ‘wanting’ and cause me endless frustrations with ‘connection’ — batteries starting to ‘dangle and no longer supply power to the tools
Secondly the lifespan of DW batteries is fairly ‘pathetic’ , I really need to take them up on the 3 year battery warrantee maybe as they have to give me two for every one I buy they’ll figure out how to correct that — not sure how their fix the ‘mounting’ issue while remaining compatible
Peter
Jonathan
I am curious about if one could use a Flexvolt battery in the DCA1820 18V to 20V Adapter it might get me to start adopting the Flexvolt system earlier if it is safe and compatible.
……..although my greatest concerns lately with all these bigger is better an I’m use two of DeWalt’s 40v 4Ah powered OPE – handheld blower and the Hedge trimmer which is the only one that is ever really close to my head/face when I’m working.
My concern is this: SAMSUNG NOTE 7s exploding LiON batteries which were only 3.5Ah @ 5v or 17.5 Wh where as the OPE Dewalt handheld blower is 4Ah @ 40V or 160Wh almost 10x the Wh or 6x with the 5Ah 20v DeWalt. But one could have DeWalt’s backpack blower with almost 600Wh or the equivalent of 34 Samsung note 7’s strapped to ones back.
Lets not forget last BF exploding hoverboards with Lion batteries.
The Tesla Model X P100D comes with an incredible 100 kWh battery pack option
The greatest concerns for us is how often we work with cordless handtools and such so close to our faces or other body parts and the environment we store (in hot vehicles in the summer) and use them in, and how much abuse they are exposed to and how little separates the anode and cathodes in these batteries
Chance
No, the Flexvolt batteries are not compatible with the 20V to 18V adapters.
Charles Hughes
the cordless saw would be great
RossG
Flexvolt is starting to sell well in the UK. DeWalt Have an offer on at the moment when you buy certain models you get a free Combi Drill. Full range here if of interest https://www.mytoolshed.co.uk/dewalt/dewalt-flexvolt-saws-kits-and-tools