Here’s a thought – how long might it be until we start seeing EV chargers enter the cordless outdoor power tool industry?
I think that EV charging could potentially make cordless outdoor power tools less inconvenient for pro landscapers and other such demanding users that have continue to prefer gas-engine tools.
Milwaukee brought quality of life style updates to their new Packout-compatible charger, and they also have a power management product on the way.
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They also have a Roll-On battery-based power supply that can recharge batteries on the go.
We’re seeing other battery-powered outdoor tool brands launch large battery banks for the purpose of recharging tool-connected batteries.
There’s no denying that gasoline engine-powered tools continue to be extremely popular with professional landscapers and other demanding users. They’re able to work through the day, refilling their tools via gas can as needed.
Frankly, I think that – aside from the costs involved with buying all-new equipment – cordless battery-powered tools need to be less inconvenient for landscapers and other heavy outdoor power tool users before they’ll switch over.
It really seems to me that the most streamlined flow involves recharging a mobile battery bank – and anything mounted to connected chargers – from a single connection point, and then using that power station to recharge smaller batteries throughout the day.
What’s the easiest way to do that? With an EV charger. Right?
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This could work for trailers full of gear, or a battery bank installed to a pickup truck bed.
Wouldn’t this eliminate much of the hassle involved with converting from gas-powered outdoor power tools to battery power?
Thus, how long until we see EV charger-based integrations?
As for the charger shown above, that’s not a rendering, it’s an actual Dewalt product that’s currently available.
SecretSquirrel
This makes zero sense. You’re saying recharge tool batteries with an EV charger at a clients home? I’d say the current fast chargers are enough. What would make much more sense is to use an EV and have your tools charging all day from the on board battery.
I have a Ford E-Transit and have all my tool batteries charging from the onboard 68kWh battery. It affects the range of the vehicle negligibly.
Wayne R.
You charge your Transit from a EV charger at home. That’s your bank in your vehicle for your smaller batteries.
If you used lots of bigger batteries, you might want a second bank, one tuned to those bigger batteries (or bolted to a trailer), and you’d also charge that second bank from your wall charger.
I didn’t pick up any “use your client’s EV charger” for anything, let alone your tool batteries.
Stuart
Your argument is that every landscaper should buy a brand new EV vehicle, and that this would be better than adding an EV-chargeable battery power station to an equipment trailer?
Julian Tracy
You must be putting out a lot of work to need charging while driving… I only charge my batteries when they actually need it. On any given job (I’m a carpenter), within the three battery platforms of tools in my van, I’ll have 3-4 fully or nearly full charge batteries and maybe a couple that are at one bar and ready to be charged.
BigTimeTommy
Do you run your power tools nonstop for 20+ minute periods dozens of times a day? Nope, but landscapers with electric tools do.
eddiesky
This is why I thought a market for a landscape trailer with solar-power-EVstation to charge. But this is commercial use. Or why I guffed at Ford’s CEO whining that we won’t ever see 500+mile range vehicles, when if they had an F250 hybrid or EV with 500+Mile range, they couldn’t make them fast enough. Even a the transit (now with a newer, longer range, cough), with a solar roof section, not blocked by pipe storage or ladder rack, or above it, and ability to charge contractor tools inside, would be ideal.
One thing: they need thermal monitoring because you know, EV fires are real. And I don’t want an EV in my garage.
Farkleberry
I’m no EE, but I believe EV’s batteries are DC. It would make sense for EV manufacturers to offer a standardized voltage DC output (maybe 12v, maybe more?) so tool manufacterers can just convert to needed voltage to charge their DC tool batteries.
It seems pretty silly to invert DC to AC and then convert back.
Obviously these new power banks are exploding in popularity, to the point generator manufacturers are phasing out ICE. While the ICE generator is a battery in a way, converting fossil fuels to electricity, “fuel” sources for these power banks are often less reliable if the grid goes down or is unavailable, their primary purpose. They can be charged with renewable sources, or we’re back to the generator, just adding a extra step and more generation, transmission and storage losses, etc., as well as beaucoup expense for big loads.
Normally, landscapers can just charge their power bank or EV at night off the mains power, no problem, but once again the argument that this is so much more earth friendly is dubious. Yes, you could have double the amount of power banks or EV’s you need and alternate solar charging. The expense and environmental impact of these batteries that last MAYBE 10 years is very high.
eddiesky
We can go down a rabbit hole on the cost of copper, on the infrastructure upgrade and how utilities will “panhandle” for Fed money while raising rates. I read how big power transmission lines are a big waste of energy with resistance loss, but now someone invented a better transmission line wiring system to reduce that loss.
And now China is copying our old Thorium reactor plants and putting out nuclear power plants (generation) based on Thorium/Salt…far safer than uranium/plutonium plants. So power could be cheap and plentiful. Its the storage I am wondering about (solid state batteries, new materials that are cheaper to use, maybe even a home that is DC and AC)
Goodie
I am no EE either, but I have an EV. The battery pack is DC. The actual “charger” is built into the car and can be supplied with either AC or DC (fast charging, which can fill up to 80% in about 12-14 minutes).
The charger that Stuart is referencing can usually supply (depending on configuration) from 16- 48amps of 220v power. That’s up to 12kW per hour, and it could easily supply the battery pack that Stuart is mentioning in under an hour. The run is getting the charger, battery pack and packaging into the right form factor and weight.
A question, because I have limited battery knowledge: For these “dock” sort of configurations, are EV or other batteries with different chemistry preferable to the typical batteries offered by Milwaukee, DeWalt, etc?
TJ Cornish
There are two problems with trying to tap the high voltage system in an EV:
1. The voltage isn’t standard. Most car’s design voltage is about 400 volts per string, the Kia EV6 is an 800 volt system, and some are closer to 300 volts. Even in a given car, the voltage of the battery varies significantly over the state of charge of the car, so it wouldn’t be possible without conversion to deliver a stable voltage.
2. The voltage of even the ~300 volt cars is WAY too high to be safe to expose to an end user. DC shocks are more dangerous than a shock at the same AC voltage, as that power just locks your muscles contracted, and you can’t get away. Even AC shocks are dangerous – In the UK, they actually use step down transformers to run their construction tools at 120 volts rather than the 240 volts that comes out of the wall.
No one in this article or comments has really defined what the energy demand of landscaping equipment is. Ego’s zero turn claims “mowing 4 acres with 6 12AH battery packs (56 volt batteries)” That works out to 4KWH, or about 1KWH per acre.
I am not in the professional landscape industry so this is idle speculation, but let’s say you needed 16KWH/day for a crew – one person on the z-turn and a couple others doing trimming and whatever else. A 15A 120v circuit can deliver 1.8KWH, meaning we can replace 16KWH of charge (assuming some energy losses in charging) in about 12 hours. I have 48 amp EV chargers in my home, which can deliver 11KW, meaning I could charge a hypothetical 16KWH system in less than 2 hours.
Are there some applications where charging all of that in 2 hours is better than 12 hours? Of course, but I have several 15A circuits in my shop, meaning I could charge 16KWH worth of batteries in less time by splitting the load between multiple circuits. If I only have one EV charging port in my shop, I’d rather charge my vehicle.
Farkleberry
I recently stopped to talk to a landscaper running a stand on Scythe electric mower. From our limited Spanglish conversation he liked it and said it ran for about 10 hours.
I saw it sitting on the side of the road and him a mile or away a week to two later.
Just an anecdote, as they really should be more reliable once the kinks are worked out.
I looked this mower up and the company says they’re adding the Tesla charging standard going forward.
Charging large mower batteries directly at night makes way more sense than having another giant battery to then charge the mower, etc.
If your big electric mower can’t go a full day, you need a different mower. If it’s just a little push mower, removable packs are reasonable.
Backpack power banks for blowers, brush cutters, etc. are probably best charged directly at night as well.
For small handheld OPE, plugging the batteries into chargers on the trailer and then hooking up to shore power at night seems great. Bringing along a small power bank as a backup is pretty reasonable.
Farkleberry
By the way, I looked up Scythe and they talk lots about robotic mowing.
For landscapers like other pros, time is money. An electric mower that’s 20% slower or can’t finish a long shift just won’t cut it! (sorry)
For a home owner or maybe a robot mower fleet owner, does it matter how long it takes the robot to mow? Maybe if a human is still needed for weed eating, pruning etc., they can do handheld while robot mows. Larger lawns, maybe people just drop them off then pick them up when they text they’re done.
A robot mower may not need 39 hp so it can mow 72″ at 10 mph. A whole fleet of little puttering droids may make sense and be quieter and safer.
Goodie
Yep. This is the argument I use for 3d printing. I have an and slow Ender printer. It’s cheap, and perfect for a homeowner. When folks say “Isn’t it slow?”. I answer, “It’s only takes me ten minutes to start the print. The robot time is meaningless to me.”
The answer is different for someone making their livelihood in production 3d printing.
Farkleberry
If you live in Iceland or someplace with night time geothermal or hydroelectric generation, battery power is the clear environmental winner. If you like nuclear power, same story.
I really hate smelling like 2 cycle oil, and the noise of 2 cycle blowers is annoying.
There are still gas powered drills and circ saws around people’s barns etc., but they’re gone from production for a reason. Electric is the clear winner for small low powered handheld tools.
Filling a car or large mower with gas is definitely faster than electric charging. It may be more or less convenient or expensive depending on where equipment is stored, etc.
I think it’s reasonable to assume some people’s homes or businesses will have outdoor accessible chargers with PINs, etc., that are made available to landscapers, etc. When a contractor comes to your house, they often plug in their tools (or chargers) right?
JR Ramos
Those gas powered drills and a few other tools were always a niche but we sold a ton of them to farmers (all Ryobi but I don’t know who else might have made those tools). The reason they disappeared was primarily due to the reduction in costs for smaller portable generators and those got popular fast. There was a gap of more than a decade before cordless battery drills caught up with the power needed to handle some jobs that gas (or electric) could do out in the field. I’ve wondered where all those gas drills went…never ever have seen one for sale at auctions or estate sales, or craigslist.
But basically the economics weren’t there for Japan manufacturing anymore. Wasn’t power or anything to do with small engine whatevers.
JR Ramos
Ryobi as a professional brand was on a big decline at that point, too…wasn’t too long after that they shifted into the DIY market with cheaper tools and more woodworking stuff like the original detail sander and some cheap palm sanders….then that oscillating doodad. Their heyday was eclipsed by Makita and Bosch and the rise of DeWalt as a “new brand.”
Farkleberry
I’m not saying gas drills aren’t powerful. Their power to weight ratio decreases as they shrink in size. A subcompact drill with fuel tank would be pretty wacky.
Great point about portable generators that could easily be loaded on truck with materials, etc.
To me, batteries make sense for low power hand tools, long and short duration, and high powered
handheld tools used for short duration. Anything on wheels can make sense battery powered too.
High powered, long duration? I would like to hear from some pro loggers if battery chainsaws make sense for them yet.
Farkleberry
Correction:
*moderately to highly portable* moderately high power and long duration hand held battery vs gas.
Corded, pneumatic, hydraulic may be superior for many stationary, vehicle tethered, or truly high powered handheld applications.
Sammy ( ͡°- ͡°)
*Pro tree serviceman*. Electric just cant keep up for anything more than an in tree saw, and even then, when your entire fleet of equipment is gas, it just doesn’t make much sense to have only one electric piece of equipment.
JR Ramos
You said they stopped being manufactured for a reason…what do you think that reason (or reasons) was? It wasn’t the smell or hassle of gas engines putting customers off. 🙂
I’ve seen some local smaller outfit tree trimmers using Milwaukee and Stihl cordless chainsaws but I would really doubt anyone in logging would be using them…maybe they’d be good for the toppers and loppers. That’s not my wheelhouse though and we definitely don’t have appreciable logging in this area anymore.
Farkleberry
Farmers used to hauling fuel around would still prefer to not have a racing 2 cycle engine in front of their face.
Carpentry and DIY absolutely dislike the fumes and hassle of gas drill vs electric, along with noise, maintenance, cost, weight, heat, etc., etc.
New drills, tiny in comparison to the “compact” gas drills of yore are rated for 3″ holes in wood. Not that many applications that (or big, but shallow hole saws) won’t handle).
Gas drills are still being made and marketed to dock builders, etc., but there aren’t many.
They are quite similar to one man post hole augers, that are just now starting to go cordless.
Very powerful and/or continuous use drills still make sense situationally with gas power.
Shrinking gas engines seems to shrink the power to weight ratio at some point.
DC motors’ instant torque and fine stepper like motor control are ideal for drilling. Modern battery drills typically have optional use clutches for control and safety.
2 cycle gas drills want to operate at WOT and need clutches just to get started and prevent broken bits and wrists.
The modern anti kickback features are more reason to go electric for something this big and dangerous.
Pike
I read the same thing and wonder who is signing up for that when a landscaper can just bring gas with them instead of hoping a charger is on the property and long enough.
Wayne R.
Conceptually, functionally similar to the traditional fuel transfer tanks for pickups. Makes sense to me.
Jared
Me too. Seems like Stuart is pointing out the industry is 90% there. E.g. battery-based power supplies already exist, the missing ingredient is just fast-charging via an EV station.
I didn’t know Dewalt already had an EV charger too. So they’re just missing a battery power station that connects to it?
Stuart
I think that – at least among cordless power tool brands – Milwaukee is a lot closer.
An increasing number of cordless OPE-specific brands have battery-charging-battery solutions.
Milwaukee has something similar for power tool batteries. Dewalt doesn’t have this yet, but it’s not too far of a stretch to get there.
Milwaukee has added products that look to minimize the hassle of setting up mobile charging infrastructure.
The only thing that’s missing is single-point mobile charging, and that’s where EV chargers could come in.
EV charging is out there now, and there are standards to ensure compatibility. e.g. https://www.transportation.gov/rural/ev/toolkit/ev-basics/charging-speeds
The next step is for mobile/transportable battery power stations to allow for multiple charging options, including EV chargers.
There could be the option to recharge via home, commercial, or gas generator AC sources, but EV charging seems like the missing puzzle piece.
Farkleberry
Are you envisioning a, for example, Milwaukee power bank with built in, clip in battery chargers? If that’s not out yet, it will be soon. The power bank market is hot and a red pack out and M18 compatible unit would be lapped up by loyal fans.
I don’t know much about EV’s or their charging, but I imagine tool companies would be leery of adopting an interface before one clear winner shakes out.
Furthermore, the smaller the power bank, the less likely the high current of rapid EV charging would be helpful.
The larger the power bank, the less likely users would actually move them. If they’re stationary in a garage or permanently set up in a trailer, etc., users may be ok with just plugging a few battery chargers in and mounting them nearby. The premium a tool company would likely charge, along with the tradeoffs in flexibility of outputs may not be as attractive.
Power banks should have a much broader range of form factors and capacity than small generators that are usually based on just a few Honda engine sizes.
Picking a particular shape, size, and capacity to fit application and space/location along with preferences for battery chemistry and outputs may make one size fits all tool brand specific models less desirable. Especially for larger installations that would benefit most from EV charging.
Farkleberry
Lots of auto companies are currently catching flack for cancelling or postponing EV plans.
Some of the early adopter buzz has faded, as the logistical realities of EV’s are circulating through the market.
Even though they make a lot of sense for many urbanites in mild climates, many people like the long range convenience of ICE. Just as few 4×4’s are taken off road, drivers like that they COULD scoot on down to Tierra Del Fuego with their ICE.
It’s only a matter of time before improving battery tech, and the incessant din from fake green (and a few real green) governments, media and influencers build back momentum.
Perhaps by then a more universal EV charging standard will emerge, and next gen batteries will benefit from high current charging, even in small sizes.
Troy H.
Stihl and Husqvarna both have systems with large backpack based batteries that can be used with all their electric tools. I don’t have any direct experience, but I think they are sized to be used for a full day without having to top up. They also have the benefit of putting more weight on your back where it can be secure instead of constantly being flung around with the tool.
You wouldn’t need to keep a large pack charged on the truck to top things up, but if you ran a large crew or several crews, you could have a bunch of these backpacks to charge every night and that’s something that could call for high power charging and also some level of intelligence. If you have to get 8 of these packs charged over 12 hours, you don’t necessarily need all of them to be in the highest charge rate portion of the charge cycle at the same time.
Stuart
Even in that case, I think single-point charging would be the least inconvenient.
Badger12345
Another issue not discussed here is that cordless battery-powered OPE are not seen as durable as their gas powered equivalent due to the limited battery life and the extensive use of plastics in components that used to be steel and/or aluminum in the gas powered counterparts.
bg100
Is the question “when will we plug in power tool batteries/packs to our EV outlets?” Cause if so, I agree. These smart chargers with high current connectors are sitting in so many homes now. I see the appeal as an electrician to use the charging port for something more than just the car. But are we there yet?
If you have a large battery bank in your tool trailer ( I do) can you not charge it with solar ( I also do)? Or charge it with the vehicle’s alternator? I would love to see a commercial option to add tons of power and an inverter to the trailer that stays brand neutral, so we can cut gas generators out of the loop. Fingers crossed.
Peter
I am sure if not already done some landscapers will use battery powered tools to set them apart from the ones using ice equipment.
The amount of noise just a gasoline powered leaf blower produces is too much imho.
People have it just accepted at but I am sure once they have experienced the much more quiet experience they will think differently.
Another angle is the lack of hazardous fuel, fumes and oil on their property.
That obviously so far only works on smaller lots but I can see it as a good sales pitch on smaller lots in more upscale neighbourhoods.
Bonnie
I think it makes perfect sense to use an existing and available standard for DC fast charging. At a depot or shop there’s little difference if you use a CHAdeMO or a NEMA 6-50R or whatever, but being able to quickly top up the truck or van if needed while going from job to job seems like it would be very applicable.
I know at least EcoFlow already has an adapter to charger their battery generators from EV chargers, so there’s no reason the tool companies couldn’t do similar.
Jim Felt
Makes perfect sense to me. Especially given the convenience we’ve enjoyed with our Level ll charger I had prewired into my loft building before I got my EV.
(With nearly a 275 mile range I’ve only used public chargers a half dozen times in 4 years. We do however have ICE vehicles too).
The future is so much more convenient with Li-ion and the far better better coming future battery tech.
Nearly zero (ICE-centric) maintenance. Oh I did finally buy new tires when one was damaged by road debris.
End of proselytizing…
Peter
As a lawyer that has drafted comments for the NEC, just want to make a clarification.
A technical point that many do not understand, unless familiar with the NEC and level 2 AC and 3 EV DC “charging.” Those Level 2 boxes on the wall of every home and most businesses are NOT battery chargers and do no battery “charging.”
See the first photo, and this includes the boxes from ChargePoint, Tesla (home and destination), JuiceBox, Grizzle-E. They are technically called EVSE: electric vehicle service equipment. They do not charge batteries. They just communicate with the vehicles (a handshake) and then supply/connect the 240 volt AC from the home/structure (32A to 80A depending on EVSE and wiring) to the EV vehicle. All EVs that I know of, do all the Level 2 240volt charging by an inverter in the vehicle. So, the Tesla, Ford, CP boxes simply connect the 240v AC from the home/business/library/store to the vehicle.
Level 3 is different. In Level 3, the service equipment supplies the EV with High Voltage and High Amperage DC. Level 3 includes Tesla superchargers, Electrify America and others. That is why Level 2 EVSE switches cost about $500 and Level 3 DC fast chargers cost $5000 to 50,000.
I mention this because I am confused why the CP, Tesla, Grizzley-e, Ford, etc EVSE supplying 240 v AC would help. UNLESS, the battery power bank CONTAINS an inverter to convert the 240v AC to DC. There was a comment above about hooking a level 2 240v to a generator/energy storage device. That makes sense because that generator and storage device would already have to have an inverter built in.
Maybe that was in the story and I missed it. Sorry.
Stuart
Thank you for the technical insights!
Cordless power tool and OPE battery power stations typically have built-in inverters that allow them to recharge via standard 120V AC.
But you have to run an extension cord outdoors and into a truck bed or trailer. Cordless OPE brands seem to be leaning towards hard-mounted battery-based power stations.
Carrying a dozen or two smaller batteries into a garage or commercial space to charge everything seems clunky. Dragging an extension cord to a truck or trailer seems clunky.
EV chargers/power stations are designed for mobile charging.
What I’m saying is that it seems the cordless OPE industry can leverage that to recharge battery power banks that will in turn recharge portable tool and equipment batteries on-the-go throughout the day.
I treated the EV handshake and power distribution as a black box where the technical details aren’t important. Even so, I learned a few things from your comment and greatly appreciate it!
What you seem to be saying is that most Level 1 and 2 EV chargers/power stations are akin to relays that merely control the flow of electrical power via the specialized vehicle connection. Battery power stations – like EVs – will still need built-in tech to be able to use AC power for battery charging, and most designs should have that already.
ToolGuyDan
As you said, anything able to charge off of AC (“wall power”) will necessarily have an inverter onboard already. Ultimately, the idea here is that the various communicating high-amp AC hookups are becoming ubiquitous, whereas something like a NEMA 15-40 outlet is not going to be present and/or easy to access in a typical customer’s house. Thus, for a relatively insignificant cost of making sure the inverter can handle both 110 and 220 V, the electrical infrastructure to access higher amperage is in place, albeit in an unconventional form.
This becomes relevant pretty quickly when you’re charging a ton of batteries; 12A@110V is the most that you can usually pull from a branch circuit, whereas an EV charger putting out 40A@220V has almost 7x the capacity. Even if it’s not built into a charger bank, I’d expect to start seeing a lot of heavy battery users bringing their own distribution boxes that take a car charger on one end and provide a half-dozen 110V outlets on the other. With so-called “bidirectional” charging, where the other end can also be an EV, having what is in effect a 100+kWh battery-on-wheels that travels to the job site with you would be pretty stinking amazing. To put it in perspective, you could *fully* charge a stack of a *dozen* 15Ah Flexvolt batteries almost thirty times, and you’d have only used 10% of that car’s battery.
Peter
Exactly Stuart!
Jim Felt
Yes. Thanks for the additional insight. We all appreciate it.
Jon
You are confusing chargers with electric vehicle supply equipment.
A tool battery charger is taking 120V AC and pumping 18V DC into the battery.
Car “chargers” at homes are sending 240V AC into the real battery charger that is inside the car. That charger goes from 120 or 240V AC to 400V DC is inside the car. Basically the car carries its charger around with it, and the “charger” you have pictured is a *really* fancy extension cord.
If you wanted to make tool batteries with built-in chargers, you might as well make them take a regular plug.
What will make life easier is having these huge batteries in vehicles that can power other things, like small tool battery chargers while sitting on site, without the vehicle idling the engine or even being on. You won’t need to carry enough tool batteries to get through your entire day and charge them at night. You just need enough to swap what is charging in your vehicle with what you’re using.
Stuart
No, I’m not suggesting that you connect an EV power source directly to a handheld cordless power tool battery.
What I’m talking about is the battery power stations that can be used to recharge batteries, either directly or via AC chargers.
Chris
Sorry, I had to weigh in here. I fully understand the idea and also see the logic. With SAE j1772 and in the future SAE j3200(Tesla nacs) being standardized and pushing high current 240v it would be convenient to charge larger packs and ride on mowers at the same port as vehicles. In addition these are smart devices usually and would be more capable of simply increasing the onboard inverter most battery banks use today from 120-240.
Also accessable 240 outlets will likely be out numbered in the not so distant future.
But either way we are missing one key thing. Even that Milwaukee system is converting AC to DC in the main battery bank, then back to AC to power the chargers which convert the AC back to CD in the smaller batteries.
DeWalt (and others) can already change their batteries either directly or with an adapter using USB C at a wide variety of voltages including 20v @ 100w this standard is already capable of 28/36/48 (up to 240W). DC to DC meaning only one conversion from the wall.
If we expect that we are charging smaller packs from larger packs or in any central point arrangements we need to expect to use standards like this to minimize the energy loss from all the inversion/conversion steps. Having a large battery bank with 4-8 built in DC charge ports would be a big improvement over today’s solutions.
Interestingly enough the first eV car chargers capable of running off residential solar directly to DC into the car are just starting to emerge for the same reason that wasting 12-20% of the energy every time really adds up.
Jon
Okay, sorry. I guess I am assuming if you have an EV plug you have an EV, in which case why not have the EV power the charger?
If you don’t have an EV you have to buy an expensive EVSE. If you do have an EV you have to buy a 2nd, or swap between them, which isn’t practical to do when one might finish charging at 1am after the work day.
I see what you’re saying for something similar to the Milwaukee Roll On power supply. Maybe as a 2nd inlet option on it aside from a regular plug? If it also has a high output connection, it could even function as a backup supply of range of sorts for EVs.
Stuart
Not necessarily.
Convincing landscapers and demanding OPE users to switch over from gas to batteries is going to require actions or developments to eliminate or reduce a lot of the hassles invovled.
Imagine a 3-person team with x-number of tools and y-number of batteries to get them through the day. They can increase the number of batteries carried on the truck or trailer to get them through the day, but at some point it’s going to be unwieldy for swaps, charging, or overall management.
Consider what Milwaukee has done with the new FORGE 8Ah and 12Ah batteries – active cooling charging for less downtime. The multi-port charger has Packout wall mounting and single-outlet daisy chaining.
Gas cans are refilled and then used to fill tools. EV power source charging seems far more convenient than dragging extension cords around, or bringing a slew of batteries back and forth to chargers.
Milwaukee’s Roll-On is portable, but we’re seeing signs the industry is moving towards truck and trailer-mounted batteries, regardless of whether the truck is EV or ICE.
Mowers take larger batteries, or banks of smaller batteries. A battery-based charging source extends runtime and helps to reduce headaches.
All I’m saying is that EV-based charging could potentially help reduce some of the frustrations in the way of broader cordless OPE adoption by serious users.
Driving around all of the local and nearby neighborhoods in the spring, summer, and fall, all I ever see are landscapers with gas engine tools. The “convenience factor” isn’t there yet. All-day power, all-at-once charging, single-point charging, and the costs of converting over are all speed bumps if not road blocks.
2 years ago Dewalt was talking about a 60V 3200 watt-hours battery for all-day mower runtime. https://14cyiuhvcgv.com/dewalt-ascent-powerequip-cordless-mower/%3C/a%3E%3C/p%3E
At the time, Dewalt said there would be a charging trailer, wall-mounted charger, and charging cart. EV power source charging seems to answer questions about how all a landscaper can everything recharged with minimal hassle.
I didn’t even think about the potential for a landscaper to charge everything from their vehicle’s battery. Maybe that could be a viable solution for certain users.
Farkleberry
What’s the advantage of plugging the tool charger into a battery station rather than directly to mains power?
Is it just the higher current than a typical 20 amp breaker to rapid charge a bunch of batteries?
Are you predicting that power banks will soon rapid charge via EV “charger” feeds? I’d say that’s likely, if not already here or in the works.
I’m not sure this will have a wide ranging effect on lawn care services.
Currently I think battery OPE makes a lot of sense for small residential homeowners doing their own lawn care. These users should have no problem slow charging their batteries.
Stuart
It’s 2pm and a landscaping team has a couple more properties to attend to before the end of the day.
They used to just refill gas-powered tools from a single gas can. Now they have to find AC/mains power? Where? How long will it take?
Sure, they can add more spare batteries, and then all those batteries have to be recharged at the end of the day on how many different chargers?
Single point power source -> mobile battery bank and charger array -> x-number of individual batteries.
A battery bank ensures mobile charging throughout the day if needed, and single point charging via EV power source reduces the hassle.
Gas engine tool fuel tanks are easy to refill with minimal interruption. The battery-powered OPE industry needs to do the same.
Adoption has been incredibly slow with landscapers and other demanding pros. Aside from the cost, batteries introduce greater hassles that have yet to be addressed.
Farkleberry
My point about not having a big effect on lawn care companies is specific to your point about EV charging for power banks.
I’ve broken comments up else where.
Basically, I think for small handheld OPE (string trimmers, small blowers, hedge trimmers, etc.) a small power bank in a box trailer pulled by an ICE truck makes a lot of sense.
If you have an EV, the vehicle’s battery could charge the handheld packs.
If you have electric mowers, charging them directly by EV feed vs through power bank seems more straightforward. Limping through day with help from power bank or EV could certainly be helpful.
Just not sure most landscapers need big standalone power banks which would benefit most from EV charging.
An EV cord to the trailer where it’s split up between mowers and small battery bank seems ideal (unless you have EV truck).
I have no idea what interfaces would work best for connecting these multiple loads.
Al
Vehicle-mounted portable battery units seem like the best way forward. Larger sites can use fork-liftable power supplies. JCB’s smallest PowerPack is 530kg and outputs 8kv.
Recharge a battery unit with a gas or diesel generator between jobs or when you’re at a site that doesn’t object to the noise.
Not sure about using a charger meant for a car, unless it was just supplying 230v (Level 2?) and letting the battery bank charge through its own inverter.
Gotta say, mobilizing a fleet of lithium batteries brings on additional risk. You can’t charge them unattended. You need a monitoring system with unique battery identifiers. Lithium battery fires end with dragging the equipment to the curb and letting it burn.
Catching fire around liquid fuel, lubricants, etc is bad enough. I had a charging box catch fire while mounted above a rack of oxygen tanks. Learned a lesson there…
Tim B.
Well….. I’m not sure the benefit is quite what / where you think it may be (or I might just be missing the point of what you’re implying!).
A little background . As an early adopter of EVs (I’ve got a 1st Gen Nissan Leaf that has given me well over 100k miles of excellent service and a much newer plug-in hybrid), I have two EV charging connections at home. But what many people don’t realize is that EV “chargers” (which is a it of a misnomer; these are usually more appropriately referred to as EVSEs) are really just accessibility to your home’s power infrastructure. Even ones such as that DeWalt above, they’re really just providing a connection to your home’s AC wiring, and implementing some very basic communication and safety features (e.g., communicating to the EV what it is capable of providing in power output, providing a latch up indicating that the cord is plugged in, etc); the actual functionality and act of charging is actually in the EV itself, as it is where the BMS (battery management system) is, and knows what to do with that raw AC supply. The chief thing this provides versus “just plugging into a NEMA wall plug” is usually a MUCH higher power outputs than your typical wall jack (though arguably not much of any functionally different between putting in a NEMA 220V / High Amperage circuit for powering something like a parked RV, welder, heavy machinery, etc).
That said… is the problem hindering adoption of battery powered outdoor equipment the ability to recharge with a higher than wall outlet power source? At a customer’s site? Or is it the ability to have a mobile power bank that can be charged at VERY high speeds, to provide customer site charging ability for the power tools?
@SecretSquirrel above mentioned using an EV… that technically fits the bill (I’ve used my Nissan Leaf as a backup power source for my house during outages!)… but like mentioned, it isn’t realistic to get everyone to upgrade to EVs to adopt battery powered OPE.
But if the ability to have a high-speed charged power source really would bump adoption… there is actually at least one mobile power bank I’m aware of that actually does support charging, and using the EV J1772 standard at that! The EcoFlow Delta Pro. That thing is a beast, as power banks go… and is mobile (on wheels), and can be recharged via solar, standard outlet, or even EV charger (for ridiculous charge rates). I can’t say I have *personal* experience with this unit, but I’ve been drooling over it for a long time…. and it does pretty frequently go on sale (and has been available at Costco, even). Would that sort of thing fit the bill?
Nathan
@Tim B
EcoFlow’s Delta and others like it are very appealing, the problem is just their longevitity as a commercial use appliance. When they break there is no cost effective way to repair them, they use proprietary parts and I would be shocked if they provided detailed board level schematics.
Once upon a time there was a company called Cutting Edge Power and you could buy generators/battery banks exactly like the Ecoflow out of off-the-shelf parts for equal or less cost. They also let you use level 2 chargers as an input source. I’m not sure of a successor company, but if you’re moderately comfortable with electric DIY you can recreate something similar. Take a look at the solar inverter generators people make in tool boxes online, it’s mostly the same thing without an mppt (unless you want solar output).
Tim B.
Totally agree. The Ecoflow is based on lithium iron phosphate, at least, which is still a cycle count improvement by far over earlier lithium chemistries. In fact, was a bit surprised myself to see that even the Delta Pro has only a 3500 cycle life rated to 80% capacity. Though for MY sort of uses, that’s fine… contractor like we’re talking about here…? Ehhh.. yeah, a push, perhaps. Though I also suspect they are padding those numbers pretty heavily. From my experience, there are some distinct differences between what you define as a ‘charge cycle’ in different chemestries.
But yeah — I remember seeing Cutting Edge Power stuff. They weren’t around very long. And yes, I’m very much into DIY’ing battery-based systems, and have built more than my share. The toughest part of that equation is effectively implementing the EVSE charging method, because there aren’t any real plug-and-play subassemblies to work with, so you’re doing a significant amount of modifying / hacking of things beyond what I would consider “DYI Off-the-shelf” componentry. To be honest, all of the rest of it really isn’t THAT involved if you just do your homework a little and buy reputable components, and follow best build practices.
…of course, that doesn’t help your run-of-the-mill user or contractor who just wants a product to “plug in and work”.
JR Ramos
Charge cycle as it relates to cell life and performance is basically any time you are adding current to charge, no matter how long or at what rate. It’s the charging process that degrades the ingredients a little at a time. That’s true of all chemistries. Some are a tad more resilient than others but it affects all of them. As chemistries have improved for capacity and current delivery they haven’t really improved in cycle life much at all. A lot of that will depend on how it’s used, too, so reaching that white sheet 80% degradation level will vary from user/tool and operational habits. Many tools are pretty tough on cells just because we want smaller packs, but we’re asking more of the cells in the process…means more heat and more charging, makes cells unhappy, so it’s kind of a vicious circle but we can get the job done in the meantime (at a higher cost and with more waste than could possibly be achieved with other approaches).
There was some really interesting research not long ago where the charging process was altered in a way that vastly reduced the damage and could potentially really increase cycle life and lengthen the time to degradation. Basically some pulsing that sort of massages the ions. It was on a micro scale, though, so it’ll remain to be seen whether that can scale up and be applicable in the real world or in the chargers/devices that we use (and then there’s the ugly side of business and all that jazz to overcome, too). Looks really promising, though.
mp
This is a real stretch.
Target is contractors who do landscaping and have gone all in on electric equipment and who have bought some extra battery bank to charge their tool batteries. (I heard you like charging so here’s a battery for your battery, bro).
Even with that, it’s hard to believe they couldn’t get about the same outcome by charging their batteries (directly, without an extra distribution battery) at home on one or more 20a/120v circuits over night.
mp
I mean, if you just have a single 20a circuit, you can charge 5-6 big batteries at the same time (I have a 300w 40v ryobi charger as an example, perhaps others are higher current). And there are those banked/serial chargers. I guess I don’t know how many amp-hours of batteries a typical crew uses in a day but seems like conventional methods are fine.
Bonnie
Think about larger landscaping companies, not individuals carting batteries around. Time is money, downtime is disastrous, and they need a van/truck to keep a crew of multiple employees functioning during the day and the next. If they can plug in a single truck/van/packout-based battery bank, like the kind pictured above, with all the crews tool batteries attached to that, it makes things simple and less likely to start a day with a van full of dead batteries. They can also swap out batteries during the day more easily, just like re-filling the gas tank.
It’s also far easier to locate a public EV charger to top up if something does happen than to have to drive back to the shop/home if they run out of power during a demanding day.
Mike
Maybe if outdoor power tools adopt a 450V architecture. Amps running through that cord are still pretty important.
Bonnie
Only the charger/battery bank would need to change architecture. The tool batteries themselves don’t care what the wall is putting out, just what they get from the charger.
Nathan
I think your not too far off
I believe it’s green works commercial or someone like that advertises their 46+ electric zero turn uses the sae…. Charge port as a charging option to pulling the packs. (The not Tesla ev charge port). And like dude above said the evse devices expect an electronic handshake to tell it what to supply to the device. 400vdc or 240vac or ?
I could see where if you had that level of ride on equipment you’d want your trailer to talk evse. But I think I’d rather wire the trailer to take nema 240vac 50ap cable. From there branch it maybe 3 ways. One 240vac to an evse devices for my ride on and 2-120vac branches for a bank of individual chargers. Be it stihke 36v or DeWalt 60v or brand ? Then you can do both within the limit of the circuit your plugged the trailer to. Even if that is on a gas generator out in the field
Nathan
Oh and too the other comment people are already doing this and there is a lot of quality pro and prosumer cordless ope
One crew that comes to my neighborhood has gone all stihl cordless.
I’m currently running echo cordless for some and DeWalt for the other and never a hiccup.
If my ride on mower died hard (froze engine etc). I’d be looking for an electric replacement
Julian Tracy
Every time I see these silly power tool brand power “generators, requiring $500-1200 worth of batteries to reach their max (low relatively low) wattage, I think of my 1995 era Honda generator that starts one pull even after sitting for six months.
ToolGuyDan
Sure, and my horse never runs out of gas, and my shoes never run out of oats, but there are advantages to the upgrade in each case. In the first few decades of automobiles, they were temperamental, ostentatious, and at times ridiculous contrivances. More than a few times, an early adopter writing their memoirs has recounted attending to their broken-down vehicle on the side of the road only to be told “get a horse!” from a sneering passer-by.
Of course, now the tables have turned and horses are relegated to the fringe use-cases. So it will be with battery-powered tools, OPE, and more. You’re right that your little 30-year-old Honda generator is going strong on minimal investment. But I’d bet good money that when you’re finally ready to replace it—when its seals have failed, perhaps; ten or maybe even only five years from now—you won’t be buying anything that runs on traditional gasoline.
Julian Tracy
No reason to believe it’ll ever stop working with some simple yearly maintenance. I’ve got a 45 year old little honda genset that starts one pul as well and use it three times a summer for camping. I’m not so old school I’m hating on cordless tools , no good reason for any plug in tools anymore., but these stupid $$$ mid 2500watt power generators that require a $2500-3000 investment just to start out with are just not worth it currently.
Bonnie
How much did your Honda Generator cost? A new equivalent is easily $1200 or more if you want something that’ll run a decent corded tool.
JR Ramos
I think if we want to see greater adoption then first and foremost they need to bring the cost down on both the tools and the batteries. This is not insignificant to most landscapers who are probably not making as much as other trades. Second, reliability of the batteries and of the tools needs to be made…more reliable. Time is money and thus far a prevailing opinion seems to be that cordless has more drawbacks for professionals than it does advantages, although the advantages are much appreciated. Stihl seems to be getting some more adoption here locally but by and large it’s all gas and nobody wants to give it up until cordless is truly up for the job day in and day out. Right now it’s just a money pit with reduced productivity. “Easier” charging isn’t going to solve the core issues/opinions…in my opinion.
As is common, these cordless tools were introduced with a sort of comparison/perception pricing, trying to put them on par with the gas or electric machines they intended to replace. That’s an industry practice and problem. These are far less expensive to produce so a cost-plus approach would put them at a lower price and perhaps gain wider adoption, but we’re still faced with durability issues compared to what pros are used to. That and the batteries are being taxed to the point of shorter lifespans (or failures) and all batteries are still – I’ll call it unfairly – priced as they always have been. With the prevalence of these materials and technologies and the economy of scale that is currently enjoyed by these tool companies, the pricing could be lowered quite a bit, imho, and lower the barrier to entry for those outfits that want to give cordless a shot. But right now, even with time spent in maintaining or repairing gas machines, gas is still less expensive and more dependable. There may be some landscapers that do well enough to absorb the higher costs of batteries and replacement tools/batteries and thus enjoy the quiet operation and such, but many do not, even those that primarily do new home construction jobs or dabble in stone/paver work, retaining walls, or water features. It’s a lower barrier to enter that trade and generally the profits are also lower compared to other trades (and that is no shade toward landscapers, at all).
Right now, cordless seems to make home gamers happy or close to happy.
I don’t know how widespread the adoption of some of the new large cordless construction tools is or will be, but those who use something like the new concrete tools may have interest in a faster/easier charging method…probably a pretty limited market, though, and probably still ruled by gas and electric in most areas.
MM
In my opinion this is a good idea, and it addresses a concern I’ve voiced many times before when discussing cordless electric OPE: normal wall outlet chargers are okay for most current tools, but they are not adequate for heavy use of more powerful OPE like commercial mowers, large chainsaws, etc. A homeowner can use a cordless ZTR for a couple hours and if it takes all night to charge it’s not a problem at all. But a pro landscaper that is used to running a 35HP engine for 8 hours a day? It would take days to recharge that kind of battery given the bottleneck of a normal wall outlet; some kind of rapid charging is absolutely necessary to make that kind of cordless OPE practical.
Marc
Sure, lets burn more fossil fuel to have an EV generator. These actually exist around the country to charge EV vehicles. How dumb are we?
ToolGuyDan
For city driving, especially, it’s substantially more efficient to run a generator to charge an EV than it is to run a gas engine to drive that same car around.
Bonnie
This is the entire concept behind Diesel-Electric heavy vehicles as well.
Farkleberry
I don’t think Diesel Electric locomotives run the electricity through batteries first, though.
Also, only the largest heavy equipment is hybrid drive though, I think. I’m not sure (but would love to find out) if it’s actually more efficient.
Wondering if it’s efficiency vs tradition/simplicity/packaging/economics reasons the (relatively) smaller vehicles are better suited to diesel engines driving transmissions and hydraulics directly VS through diesel electric motors.
Farkleberry
This is hard to believe. Federal mileage and emissions standards have driven incredible efficiency gains from variable valve timing and intake ports, direct port injection, sophisticated closed loop computer controls, etc. How can a little generator be more efficient, especially with generation, transmission and storage losses through battery.
I did a quick google search and only find some reddit posts mentioning, but not citing incontrovertible evidence.
Can you please cite some sources?
ToolGuyDan
Well, it’s actually the whole concept behind “MPGe”. In short: internal combustion engines like to run at a constant speed (which is a big part of why we attach them to gearboxes when we use them in cars). Many of the advances you cite, like VVT, are only necessary because of variable and unpredictable load on an engine rotating at a very large range of speeds. In a generator-powered electric car, many of these needs, and their corresponding complexity and mechanical losses, simply vanish. The resulting generator is simpler, lighter, more reliable, and better tuned for its narrow band of operation.
Any discussion of specific comparisons is going to get bogged down in apples-to-oranges problems. Instead, we can simply look at it this way: assume two engines, each capable of producing a sustained 500 horsepower (~372 kW). Each of these engines is placed in a car, one of which then is also given an electric motor and a very modest battery (say, 5 kWh, which is less than 1/20th the size of a modern top-end Tesla pack). Some back-of-the-napkin math suggests the battery would weigh about 65 pounds, and the motor adds about another 100. Since the hybrid drive doesn’t need a transmission, that can be removed (probably at least 250 pounds on a 500-hp vehicle). Sure, it’ll need some wiring and other electronics, but the point is, the two cars will weigh roughly the same by the time we’re done.
But here’s the thing: the 500-hp traditional car, when driving downhill in a school zone, must at least idle. When it burns tens of grams of gasoline to get up to 80 mph, only to take the next off-ramp? That gas is gone now, converted into heat in the brake pads. Meanwhile, our little electric conversion car suffers none of these problems, thereby triumphing in efficiency. Plus it’s more fun to drive: it can beat the gas-powered car on a drag strip every single time, and its brakes don’t even get warm.
You’re asking for sources, and I realize I didn’t cite any. If that causes you to dismiss my argument, I can’t stop you from doing so. But if so, please give me an idea what sort of sources you’d like me to cite. Or, alternatively, ask ChatGPT or something; it’s probably smarter than I am, anyway.
Farkleberry
Your points about VVT and most efficient RPM make sense, as does the regenerative braking of EVs. I’m not sure how much fuel coasting downhill at idle uses, its something to be sure.
Modern ICE vehicles often have CVTs, or heavy duty trucks might have 10 speeds to always stay closer to the ideal rpm band (at legal speeds).
I’m certainly not anti EV, and I’ll wholeheartedly agree that electric motors are MUCH simpler than modern uber tech, uber emissions ICE. Instant torque is a real benefit as well.
You lost me at the weight comparison.
There is much hand wringing that the future probable widespread EV dominance (barring fuel cell or flux capacitor breakthroughs) will wreak havoc on our roads, due to the increased weight of EVs with any kind of competitive range.
EVs are mechanically simpler, but they currently/typically weigh significantly more than comparably sized ICE vehicles and thus have to do more work per mile.
Finally as to sources, I’m not dismissing your argument, I find it quite intriguing. Though your explanation makes some good points, I’m still skeptical and just wondering where you heard this very specific claim. Any sort of pseudo scientific Youtube test would be interesting, but some reputable non biased organization or individual with some, like, numbers would be ideal. It really shouldn’t be that difficult to prove/disprove, the trickiest part selecting “comparable” vehicles.
I guess I’m asking if your source is reddit or or second/third hand reddit?
Jim Felt
I’ve signed up for Wind, Hydro and Solar only through our utility.
Yes it costs just a tad more but I am voting for the future.
Farkleberry
That’s great your region has such a mix of sources. Are you in the Pacific NW?
None of the following is not directed at you:
Large scale hydro is rare and often already devoted to smelting , etc. or existing cities, but it along with geothermal and nuclear (justifiably controversial) are often quite reliable.
Building more reservoirs in the mountains to run at night and be refilled by solar powered pumps is an intriguing idea, but often at odds with certain factions more concerned with salmon in the LA river, etc.
Wind and solar don’t work well or at all at night, when most people would be charging EVs, and pros charging mowers, tools, trucks, etc.
Utilities offering renewable options that may not make sense in certain areas, or is based on coal converted into limited lifespan solar panels in China is not sustainable, but may be popular with customers sometimes only superficially worried about humanity’s impact on the planet.
Large houses/buildings for few occupants that use a lot of resources to build and condition can’t really be sustainable. Highly affordable “green” energy that encourages more consumption and resource extraction would probably be as damaging as continuing fossil fuel use.
Conservation. Living in small, barely conditioned mud huts with minimal possessions, with limited powered transportation is not a particularly popular or compelling vision. The human condition is to be fascinated by stuff and places, innovation, technology and tools, and to acquire resources to feed our survival instincts.
It’s comforting to the “techno-optimists” to believe we can have ever increasing stuff, but the products’ life cycles will be benign.
Sorry to be a grouch, I’m trying to climb from techno pessimism to skepticism.
Jim Felt
Pacific Northwest. And fairly soon to have oceanic/tidal generation too.
bob
Currently there’s not enough infrastructure to conveniently charge electric vehicles, charging tools seems like a stretch. Where would they be located? The Milwaukee generator with the charging bank on top seems to be the solution.
Farkleberry
I think people keep bringing up EV’s because that’s a logical extension of battery tool charging. Mobility is maybe the most important difference between cordless and corded, and heavy users tend to be amongst the most mobile users (professional contractors).
If you’re using an EV work vehicle, it just makes the most sense to use the vehicle battery, especially for big kWh OPE users.
Why would you pay big money and be an early adopter of an entirely electric lawn care equipment setup if you’re driving a vehicle that uses at least at much fuel as the OPE would?
Who is the market for electric lawn care services?
Mowing little strips of grass between concrete and buildings on apartment complexes or zero lot line detached houses? Sure, they’re definitely quieter.
Mowing typical suburban lots (<1/3 acre)? Maybe. Electric 30" walk behind mowers able to fit into gates are available and not astronomically priced.
Big lots with 1-5 acres of manicured lawn? Of course! These customers need people to know they care about the environment.
Their McMansion's water, fertilizer, herbicide, pesticide and energy devouring lawn must be maintained by an all electric service.
If you live in California, etc., the government will mandate you phase out your gasser, but maybe help subsidize your electric OPE.
If you live in a state less aggressively governed, you will have to decide if $40k for a legit gas competitive mower will pay off. How much is the replacement battery and how long till you'll need it. Maybe topping off your stand on mower's battery that won't finish a shift anymore with the power bank is a great application.
If you're still using an ICE truck and big mower(s), using battery weed eaters, push mowers and maybe blowers may be viable, but questionable.
Will the battery units have the same durability? How quickly will you go through batteries when rapidly draining them in summer time heat and storing in hot box trailers. How about water resistance and battery theft on open trailers? Time is money, and I don't think electric is as fast, but for well maintained small lawns it may not matter much.
If you decide the tradeoffs are worth it, a small to medium power supply in your trailer would be great insurance.
The trailers would want to be hooked up to shore power at night.
Lugging a large heavy power station, chargers and batteries back and forth between garage/shop and transportation would get old fast.
LGonToolGuy'd
I’d like to see bigger riding lawn mowers able to be recharged with these.
Derek Howe
I think Stuart has a good idea. Obviously the best way is use an EV, but as stated, people aren’t as willing to go splurge on a EV pickup. Which are currently priced between vomit inducing & eye bleeding.
Dewalt’s charger looks cool, but it’s already outdated, everyone’s switching to NACS as the standard (in US & Can).
I’m no landscaper, but If I was, I’d go electric & use EGO, they got quality shit.
Nathan
So. Back to the lecture at hand. I see 2 main things that would help out cordless ope users
1) trucks that output decent AC power to be wired to the trailer/cargo bed in this case 2 alternator or such setup and it provides 240vac @30 amp or so. To be used for individual chargers or even the larger ride on chargers
2) ope makers to have direct DC to DC chargers to wire straight to normal auto systems. Both ev and ice.
Of the 2 options I think I like option 2 better. Many commercial trucks and bed bodies already come with extra generation options already. Ie f250 with 2, 180amp alternators to run extra electric load. Or more the bigger you go.
Farkleberry
I think depending on the situation, electric is viable, either using a bunch of batteries or, as you’re suggesting and seeing, fewer batteries charging off a bigger bank throughout the day.
For instance, using battery string trimmers, stick edgers, hedge trimmers, etc. to touch up well manicured small properties is plausible now. Is it really that inconvenient to switch out batteries twice, once, or not at all for these tools depending on situation? Getting, storing, and refilling gas is a hassle, as are clogged carbs, changing filters, etc.
Little blower touch ups where mowers are managing their discharge and string trimmers are cutting very little could be battery, with more changes or a backpack battery.
Other tools are absolutely less convenient and would cost landscapers productivity, and thus money.
Fall leaf cleanup, forget it, for now. I know there are backpack battery systems, but the blowers are still significantly weaker. The amount of energy it takes to move air around is amazing, and backpack batteries are expensive.
This gets to the last point – mowers
I’m not sure it’s the inconvenience at this point holding mowers back. I think it’s economics.
Toro and Wright both have commercial battery models, and Scythe has their robot autonomous mower that maybe does a whole shift on a charge now. They’re simpler (mechanically), quieter, and could be charged every night and eliminate the ICE and maybe hydraulic maintenance as well.
What’s the impediment? Money. These mowers start at $35k, which as pointed out, is a tough sell in a lower profit margin industry.
The big commercial account holders will adopt early, then competition will drive prices down, and voila, mass adoption.
I think the robotic aspect will drive adoption as much as the EV angle, both by contractors and homeowners, and just like everything, transform the industry.
Plugging in vs gassing up is a lot less cataclysmic than Cyberdyne Lawn Service.
My pet robot mower can go along with everything else in our houses designed to eliminate all grimy non-metaverse human movement.
Goodie
Just a quick reminder that the F150 Lightning exists and a big selling point for it with working pros is the ability to provide power to a job site while minimally affecting the onboard battery for range. The work truck version is popular in commercial use. Fleet operators like EVs: the initial purchase price can be depreciated for tax purposes, the ongoing running and maintenance costs are cheap compared to ICE vehicles (the real costs in fleet ops), and the long warranty on the batteries coupled with high usage mean the vehicle will probably wear out from use before the battery ages out.
Nate
If you’ve got enough chargers to max out a 15A outlet, sure, it makes sense to go more, or just sequence them, as we’ve seen with the Milwaukee offerings.
There are already plenty of “solar generator” portable battery power bank products on the market, which will take J1772 for charging. Ecoflow makes a few that’ll do it with an adapter (the Delta Pro and Delta Pro Ultra, possibly more), the Zendure Superbase V will do it with an adapter, and the Oupes Mega 5 has the native connector right on it already.
This fits the “fuel transfer tank” analogy, however I will point out that NONE of these can be left in the sun like a fuel tank. They don’t like getting hot, and should live at LEAST in a shaded and vented trailer, better in the conditioned cab of a vehicle. So the analogy isn’t perfect. (But if you have enough sun to cook the battery, you also have enough sun to set out some free-energy panels!)
charles
the only way this makes sense is when the nanny state passes laws saying you can’t run gas powered equipment.
it can’t survive in the marketplace without the heavy support of this kind of lawfare. man portable power equipment that needs to run all day and be reliable is still gas powered.