Festool has new limited edition Domino joinery tool sets coming out, and a reader asked if it’s a good buy.
Tom (thank you!) asked:
Do you think this is a good deal? It looks like the Domino doesn’t come with some of the normal accessories, like the cross stops. I don’t know how useful those are though.
Advertisement
I was thinking of finally pulling the trigger on a domino since I have a lot of cabinets that I need to build.
I haven’t looked at Festool’s Domino 500 tool set recently. Tool Nut breaks down the pricing, showing a $1069 set with the addition of a trim stop, handrail fence, and tenon assortment kit.
The bundle price is $1299.
If you’re wondering “Domino… what?” it’s Festool’s floating tenon mortising machine.
While expensive, the Festool Domino is very good at what it does.
The question is whether these limited edition bundles are a good buy.
Advertisement
Let’s focus on the Domino 500 tool, which is standard for 3/4″ plywood and similar joinery. The XL 700 tool is better sized for larger hardwood construction. There are plenty of discussions online as to which is better for different tasks, but I think the 500 is best suited for building cabinets and similar.
Festool’s standard DF 500 “Q-Set” with support bracket, trim stop, and cross stops, for $1199.
The cross stops retail for $87.
Going with the Q-Set gives you a different $87 accessory in place of the handrail fence, which also retails for $87.
Thus, the biggest difference price-wise is the Domino assortment.
Here’s another look at the limited edition set.
You get a Systainer full of floating tenons, plus a full set of cutters.
The official description says you get: Domino DF 500 + LA-DF Trim STOP + RA DF Hand Rail Fence + Beech DOMINO Tenon Assortment, and the support bracket is listed in the list of included contents.
It seems to me that you get approximately the same value as in the $1199 kit, plus the tenon and cutter set (probably minus the one that’s usually included in the regular kit), for $100 more.
Will you want to experiment with other tenon sizes? You’ll need the appropriately-sized cutter, which runs around $50 and up. No? Use the tenon sizes you need, dump the rest of the contents into a bin, and you have another Systainer tool box.
If you were looking to buy a Domino tool kit, the limited edition bundle does look to be a good buy.
It seems to me that these limited edition sets are designed to shove potential buyers off the fence they’ve been perched on.
Festool’s Domino tools are expensive, but there’s still no substitute. There are alternative joinery methods, but still nothing that performs similarly. There’s speculation about what will happen when the patent runs out. But in the meantime, there’s just one Domino (plus a larger XL model).
Festool is not discounting the Domino tools, they’re throwing in discounted add-ons and slightly changing the accessory inclusion.
Compared to the price for just the Domino 500 tool set, I think you would definitely get your money’s worth with the new limited edition bundles.
If I were buying a Domino DF 500 joinery tool right now, or were thinking of buying one, I’d definitely go for the limited edition bundle.
There’s also a limited edition bundle on the Domino XL 700 set, for $1749.
Steve L
If your projects need, or would benefit from using, tenons this is a great tool.
I went with the DF 700 to cover thicker wood and added the Seneca Woodworking adapter to also use the DF 500 tenon sizes.
If you don’t need the larger tenons go with the lighter one DF 500
fred
I did the same thing. I have a number of Seneca reworked cutters, reference plates and jigs. I bought the 700 because my first project use was in making a pair of 8-foot x 9/4 doors.
Bill J
Count me as someone who has been on the fence for a domino for a while and this might push me over the edge. I started with their sanders years ago and have slowly added to the collection over time. These are luxury tools for someone like me but I value the user experience enough to justify the cost. It’s in my cart, just need to pull the trigger…
Goodie
You won’t regret it. I paid $1500 for my DF500 and the Systainer3 with tenons in the dark days of 2021 when availability was limited during COVID. The machine will save you a great deal of time. Also, unless you are building barn doors or a giant bed frame, the DF500 is fabulous for working with hardwoods.
Goodie
Correction:
Barn doors should be: barn doors or full sized doors.
Derek
It’s hard to find guidance on which size domino to use.
I just picked up a used one that happened to come with all the different size cutters but I don’t know if that’s really necessary. 1mm is about 3/64″. That’s not a major size difference between a 5mm and 6mm domino.
TomD
What about the depth? I’d think that if one is deeper than the other that would be the main difference.
fred
The DF500 machine can be set to cut mortises of 12, 15, 20, 25 and 28mm deep. For the 4mm and 5mm cutters the max depth is 20mm. For the 6, 8 and 10mm cutters the max depth is 28mm.
The DF700 machine can be set to cut mortises from 15 to 70mm deep. The DF700 8mm cutter can only cut to 50mm deep. While the 10.12 and 14mm cutters can cut to 70mm. Using Seneca’s DF500 to DF700 adapters on the DF700 adds an intermediary spacer and can impact the depth of cut.
I’m not sure if aftermarket cutters for either machine have different specs.
fred
BTW – Seneca used (no longer) to sell Festool DF700 cutters reworked to different sizes including 1/4-, 3/8- and 1/2-inch diameters.
fred
Also – I believe that for general guidance – Festool once recommended that domino mortises should be no more than 1/3 the thickness of the material that they are being cut into. So, for 3/4 ply (23/32) or 1x lumber – I use 6mm dominos. For 5/8 ply (19/32) – I use 5mm. For 1/2 ply (15/32) I use 4mm. For 2x lumber I use 12mm dominos – and for the 9/4 stock I made doors from I went with 14mm dominos.
Stuart
That’s also a good rule of thumb for dowels, traditional mortise and tenon work, and similar.
fred
Yes, it is. When I was more ambitious (read younger) I would sometimes cut two narrower mortises – then split the cut tenon down the centerline to fit into the mortises. The advantage is that this (double tenon) nearly doubles the surface area of the tenon providing more square inches of glue to wood contact.
Making haunched tenons was also my preference for connecting table legs – stronger and more tolerant of the twisting moments that sometimes come from dragging a table across a floor lather that lifting and carrying.
eddiesky
Its not. While the Festool is a decent line of tools and this tenon system does work, its narrow use is for those making big tables, slabs and doors. I prefer mortising and full tenons, with drilling an offset hole for a strong pull dowel. Or using biscuits. I’ve a carpenter friend that bought one and he says in 5 years he’s used it twice. I might take it off his hands if the price is right but $1100… nope.
John
Your case doesn’t apply to everyone. The DF500 is the smaller one, not for big tables, slabs and doors but for boxes, furniture and the like. By far one of the most useful tools that Festool makes.
Stuart
They didn’t ask if they should buy a Domino, but about whether *this* bundle is a good buy.
The DF 500 is fantastic for cabinet joinery and non-decorative drawers.
fred
The domino machine is certainly not about making the absolute best joints – nor decorative ones, it is all about joinery that is fast, reasonably strong and mostly frustration proof. Real mortise and tenon joints have their place, Exposed tenons with drawbore dowel pins using contrasting wood and stains can look spectacular. Machine or better yet hand cut dovetail joints – especially with contrasting woods can give projects a lot of appeal. But those first big doors that I made using 14mm dominos instead of splines convinced me of the tool’s value.
John
I have both the 500 and 700. Probably would not part with either because they just work and are a faster solution than most any other method out there.
But do you NEED all those accessories? A pencil, ruler and the tool is quick and just as accurate as messing around with the wings which I have rarely used. Aftermarket accessories are a bit better from my experience.
For narrow pieces, the domino dock design by Roman Valdez changed everything. There are many varieties of those now including a 3D print model. I have used both the plywood self made version and a 3D printed version for the DF500, both are a better choice than what Festool includes.
fred
I agree that after the initial trials – I’ve never used most of the Festool accessories for the DF 700. I found that I went through a learning curve about what worked for me. Early on I tried some guides from RTS Engineering – that worked – but for me they were not worth the trouble. But I like some of the plates from Seneca. While they can easily be done without – they speed up repetitive cuts without worry about fence creep. I also like TSO’s Bigfoot better than Festool’s part (4014549101261) – but either will work.
https://www.senecawoodworking.com/collections/domino-accessories
https://tsoproducts.com/jigs-fixtures-guides/dbf-45-bigfoot-v2-0-base-system-for-festool-domino/
BobH
The other way to look at it is the if you buy a Domino, you are going to also need to buy the domino tenons. Other than making them yourself, most people will buy them.
So getting the domino tenon assortment set and the bit set for an extra $100 is a good deal. You will easily spend more than that buying the tenons and other size bits.
John E
I’ve made tenon’s for the Domino. Have to say, if it weren’t for the fact I needed a lot of 10mm x 50mm teak tenons it really isn’t worth it. Had an old weathered and broken teak patio table so the lumber was free and cut it down into long slats on the table saw then routed 4 x 3/16″ radii. Got about 900 tenons out of it. Didn’t thickness them in a planer as the surface ends up too smooth and teak doesn’t glue that well as it is. Ripping blade leaves a decent roughed surface.
Issue with making your own tenon’s is there aren’t many metric roundover bits available.
3/16″ is close enough for 10mm tenon’s and leaves a little room for glue to move around.
Someone makes a set of router bits specifically for making Domino tenons, but I haven’t tried them.
Smaller tenons than 8mm aren’t worth the effort for the money you save.
fred
I’ve also seen domino trim plates. In concept they look like the old-style dowel sizing plates that you pounded round stock through to scrape off some excess wood. I have not tried these:
https://dfmtoolworks.com/products/a2-domino-trim-plate
The bullnose bits that I’ve seen advertised for cutting dominos – come from a company that I’ve never heard of:
https://www.findbuytool.com/products/router-bit-for-festool-dominos-4pcs
BobH
Woodpecker’s makes bits for making Domino’s:
METRIC HALF ROUND 2-FLUTE ROUTER BITS
https://www.woodpeck.com/ultra-shear-metric-half-round-bits-2-flute.html
fred
Woodpeckers’ bits make smooth-sided tenons. Those might be good for making projects with a through-tenon look with contrasting woods/stains as they show. Sometimes for decoration – folks use faux tenons or faux dowels that are actually just small pieces set into the wood surface and stained for contrast. The bits that I linked to – claim they produce tenons with glue-clearance grooves which might be better for actual glue ups – but I have no experience with either.
Fastcap makes a tool they show being used to set some caps that are meant to look like through tenons:
https://www.fastcap.com/product/artisan-accents
Fastcap also sells center markers (sort of like dowel centers) for dominos
https://www.fastcap.com/product/mortise-marker
John Blair
This is a good deal for a new with warranty. As you mentioned, “…you get approximately the same value as in the $1199 kit, plus the tenon and cutter set (probably minus the one that’s usually included in the regular kit), for $100 more.”
You probably will only use 5 mm dominos 95% of the time. Other than messing about when I first got it, I haven’t used any of the add ons. I’m more likely to make centering marks on 1x material and use that than to find the wings, put them on and use it that way. But even with not using the rest of the kit, its nice to have options, even if you don’t use it.
Now the interesting thing is the Festool Domino patent is set to expire around 2025/2026. When that happens, I look foward to a Milwaukee M18 version (just like I think the M18 version of their tracksaw is better than the Festool one).
fred
There is a prodigious amount of debris spewed out when cutting the mortises. Using the machine without a vacuum hose connected is not practical IMO. So, a cordless “Domino machine” is perhaps less compelling than some other cordless tools. Nonetheless, I’m hoping that once the tool goes off-patent there will be some alternatives – hopefully some that match the quality and precision of the Festool. One alternative already on the market is Mafell’s duo-doweler. A slightly different approach – and equally pricey. I had tried a similar tool from Freud. Bought in 2009 the Freud FDW710K V0 was a total waste of money (time and effort too) as it could not repeatedly bore matching sets of dowel holes. I went back to using my Dowelmax jig when I wanted dowel joinery. How it got 17% 5-star reviews on Amazon is a mystery to me. Not surprising that it is no longer made.
14mm cutters are also needed if you plan to use Festool connectors for building things like take-apart furniture or handrails.
MM
I like the Dowelmax. It is not very fast, but it is very accurate, makes extremely strong joints, and is surprisingly capable. The one thing I wish it did better was angled joints. Dowelmax sells a 45 degree adapter for doing 90 degree miters, and I’ve used mine to make 135-degree edge joints by using double-stick tape to attach angled shims to the clamping surfaces. But doing angles with the Dowelmax is fiddly compared to being able to just set an angle adjustment like you can on a biscuit jointer, domino, etc.
The JessEm “Pocket Mill Pro” seems to be a well made precision tool that can cut domino style tenons but like the Dowelmax it slows you down because you have to clamp it in place before you can cut the mortise, and it’s using a drill as the power source so it doesn’t have the same kind of power as most mortisers. I don’t think the JessEm would be of much use for pros due to the time involved but it seems very viable for hobbyists and it’s a fraction of the price of the Domino. I’m curious if anyone here has ever used one before.
Derek
Domino patents and Sawstop patents have been rumored to be expiring in 2 years since the Mayflower was built.
I honestly was just looking up something on the Domino and saw that same “expires in a year” reference from a forum post in 2009.
TomD
Companies keep improving and patenting the improvements. At some point the “20 year old” design is good enough for the clones, and the market explodes.
We’ve seen this multiple times.
Goodie
I have love/hate relationship with Featool (mostly love). A big part of the Festool “value” is their three year warranty. Lots of folks send in their tools at the 2.5 year mark and get the tool rebuilt, whether it needs it or not. Very few other companies offer that sort of warranty. Also, parts are guaranteed to be available for ten years after production. I have several friends who have sent tools in for repair out of warranty and have heard the repairs are pretty reasonable (compared to new). This sort of offsets the high initial cost.
I will take other folks word about the Milwaukee M18 track saw, but won’t be buying one. My Festool has been great for anything I’ve needed it for.
scott
I never have understood how big a difference there is between the domino and the PC 557 biscuit jointer. I damn near stole the 557 when HD clearanced them out years ago. It rang up $0.01, tag had said $50, I had a bunch of other stuff and did not realize it until I was in the car looking at the receipt. My one and only penny home depot deal.
Goodie
Love this. There’s number of retiring woodworkers who bought a PC Biscuit joiner back when Norm Abrams built everything with them. I’ve had three offers to take one for free in the last year. For many woodworkers, the biscuit joiner can be a great and cheap way to align cabinet carcases or other work pieces without spending Featool $$$.
fred
Ahh! – the power of a good PBS woodworking show. We were using Lamello biscuit joiners in our cabinet shop – mostly for alignment. Based on Norm and PBS – I bought a Dewalt (much cheaper than the Lamello. I tried it out a lot on cabinetry – for the family. I learned that biscuits work – can supplement pocket screws – but placement too close to a plywood face can result in blowout-bumps as the biscuits expand with glue. In my furniture-making hobby – I never quite saw a use for them. I stayed with cutting tenons on the table saw and boring mortises – first at the drill press – then at a benchtop mortising machine. I tried loose tenons using a Porter Cable (MorTen) jig – but thought it dangerous in use. For some pieces like chairs – I would use dowels – going through several jigs over the years and finalizing on a Dowemax. For furniture (and table) tops I tried a Freud Doweling machine – but sold it almost immediately before the word got out about how bad it was. For small tops I find that a well-prepared spring joint glue up often suffices without need for adding any sort of reinforcement. This works because tops generally are not stressed and usually sit on some undercarriage. Slab doors – where boards may be subject to stresses from weather and repeated opening/closing forces do benefit from reinforcement across the joints. On massive doors this might be side to side threaded rod – but the doors that I’ve made were reinforced with splines along each joint – and more recently large dominos. I have used dominos on several furniture projects instead of cutting traditional mortise and tenon joints – strong enough and so much faster. I’ve seen a PBS woodworking show hosted by Scott Phillips (American Woodshop) where he uses mostly pocket hole joinery – plugging holes to give a more finished look. My take is that this is sort of a quick and dirty way to get into woodworking – but it has its place requiring less measuring and simpler assembly. I like pocket holes for cabinet face frames – but prefer using dominos, glue and clamps to align and hold carcass pieces together. A few years back, I was asked to build a set of knock-down furniture as a going-back-to-college-apartment gift. I decide on using Lamello Clamex connectors – and purchased a Lamello Zeta P2 machine. What I learned is that the Lamello machine cuts biscuit slots way more precisely than my Dewalt ever did – and that that precision is needed to allow the machine to cut the special retaining slots used with the Clamex connectors. Since my first foray into take-apart – I’ve built several more pieces all out of solid wood rather than the typical composite Ikea alternatives (double the weight and half the quality – but much less expensive that anything I could make.)
Goodie
Fred, as always great comments!
Goodie
Scott, sorry. The big difference between the biscuit joiner and Domino is the strength of the resulting joints. The Domino’s are floating tenons of solid beech or sipo and have high strength. Properly sized, they can bear a lot of stress. Biscuits are a compressed wood and glue (a lot like particle board). They are not as strong, and should be mostly used for alignment.