While I was at Acme Tool’s fall sale, I was able to quickly demo a few Metabo HPT (formerly known as Hitachi) MultiVolt tools. Several of the tools are now available for sale including the 36V dual-bevel 10″ miter saw shown above.
I wasn’t really able to challenge the power of the miter saw because the only wood they only gave me a 2×4. I did make a few straight cuts and a 45° miter and the saw didn’t even notice it was cutting through the 2×4. That’s a good start anyway.
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I also didn’t notice any appreciable sawdust blowing forward at me unlike some other saws I’ve tested. As you can see in the photos, the dust bag definitely wasn’t catching all the sawdust, but then again there aren’t many saws that can collect dust well without a vacuum.
Notice that the rails are in the front of the saw and the motor slides forward, this allows the saw to be placed closer to the wall saving space. You’ll also notice the two thumb wheels right above the blade guard. These are for aligning the laser cut line without tools, although you can’t access them if you pull the handle down because the blade guard gets in the way.
I was also able to try the 36V reciprocating saw. This new saw has a 1-1/4″ stroke length and a dual counter weight system to reduce vibrations transmitted to the user.
To test the saw they had set up a 2×10 in a Jawhorse. While the saw had plenty of power, I felt it vibrated more — not less — than other cordless reciprocating saws I’ve used. When I asked the rep about the vibration, he said that if you compare it side by side with other cordless reciprocating saws it should vibrate less because of the dual counter weight mechanism. I’m not convinced yet.
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While I was inside the store, I was able to get some photos of the new MultiVolt AC adapter. It comes in two parts: a big box that the AC cord runs into, and the battery adapter that’s connected by a long cord. The battery adapter is about the size of a 10 cell li-ion pack.
As you can see above the big box is about 30% longer than the battery adapter, slightly wider, and slightly taller. What surprised me was how light both the battery adapter and the other box were. Their total weight is only 5.5lbs. I was expecting one of them to weigh significantly more because of the size of the transformer they’d need to use to get the rated 2000W output.
Talking more about output, 2000W is a little over what you can get from a regular 15A 120V circuit. The maximum number of watts you can draw should only be 1800W. I’m not exactly sure how they are specifying 2000W.
What’s Available Now
All of the MultiVolt tools are brushless, and the prices listed below are for the bare tool.
- 4/8Ah 18/36V MultiVolt battery $100
- MultiVolt Starter kit with battery and charger $150
- 36V AC adapter $150
- 36V 1/2″ hammer drill $359
- 36V triple hammer impact driver $379
- 36V 7-1/4″ circular saw $359
- 36V 10″ dual bevel sliding miter saw $619
- 36V reciprocating saw $399
- 36V 1-9/16″ SDS Max rotary hammer $749
- 36V 4-1/2″ grinders (slide and paddle switch models) $359
- 36V 1/2″ hog ring impact wrench $449
- 36V 3/4″ hog ring impact wrench $499
Several of the tools are already in stock at Acme Tools and others are arriving soon. I’ve even see a Metabo HPT display at Menards with the starter kit, circular saw, impact, drill, and reciprocating saw.
Acme does have a deal going where you buy one of the Metabo HPT bare tools and you can either get a free starter kit or 36V AC adapter. It works both in stores and online, but they say the deal is only good until supplies last.
To redeem the deal online, you just add the bare tool to your shopping cart. When you go into your shopping cart, you’ll see a button below your tool that says “select your free gift.”
Buy Now (via Acme Tools)
What’s Next
The next big tool in the MultiVolt platform is the 36V cordless table saw, which is supposed to be based on the C10RJ 10″ jobsite table saw they currently sell. It’s expected to launch in early 2019.
John
I really like Hitachi cordless tools, have 4 cordless nailers, 2 triple hammers, 2 hammers drills, plenty of batteries. Looking to add a few more items as I find them. You can get some great deals on Hitachi branded new tools now that the name change and new MV system is out.
But my annoyance is trying to understand how a Hitachi 18V triple hammer impact that was $179+ bare tool turned into a $379 Metabo HPT 36V bare tool. No justification for prices like that other than KKR being greedy.
Not sure if it will play out the way they want. I predict price drops on the M-HPT hand cordless tools because they are simply too high. I think the prices on sliding miter cordless and the table saw will be reasonably in line with other brands.
Paul
John,
The $379 retail is the cost on the bare tool but then you choose to get the starter kit (charger and (1) 36V Battery) or the AC Adapter with it. Both have a $150 retail value.
Something to note, you can run the 36V 4 Ahr battery in the 18V tools as an 8 Ahr battery. Longer run time and more shots per nailer!
Benjamen
I was going to add the deal in then I forgot when I finished the post this morning. Thanks for the heads up!
Cr8on
They have been on display at my local Menards for over a month now. Pricing is overboard so I didn’t pay em much attention.
Benjamen
I just spotted them in the past week or so. Although they might have been there longer, because I discovered the sidecap display of MetaboHPT tools buried under a bunch of Masterforce boxes.
JR3 Home Performance
I think (could be wrong) that for circuit breakers there’s a timing aspect so a 15amp breaker can pass over 1800 watts at 120v..just not for very long. Assuming a properly sized wiring circuit to avoid voltage drop, the breaker rating is the max continous amperage throughput. Kind of like how generators have surge power ratings and continous power ratings
Benjamen
I thought of that, and it’s possible, but as an engineer I can’t see how you’d ever design a product that did that. It seems a little irresponsible, because that’s in a perfect world, and wiring is in the real world where there is voltage drop due to resistance in the wires and other problems like Power Factor.
My other thought is that the adapter has a small amount of storage either in a large coil or capacitor and they can momentarily get above the theoretical maximum by tapping into that. Though again, I can’t see a responsible engineer allowing that to be part of the spec either.
But the world isn’t run by responsible engineers, because there are meaningless specs like Max HP.
Tim E.
I’m not sure how any safety agency would sign off on it pulling 2000W on a 15A bladed plug, something seems off. Maybe you’re right and it’s more of a 2000W peak but lower continuous, kind of like generator ratings, but that still seems fishy.
logan
marketing probably has a lot more to do with the specs than you think
xNOOPSx
Breakers in North America are only rated for an 80% continuous load.
A 15A 120V circuit is therefore good for 1440W continuous. A 20A steps that up to 1920W.
In theory, a 25A breaker would only pass 20A but because the load is dynamic, not purely resistive, you’re not allowed to use a 20A plug on a 25A breaker. US code might read slightly different that the CEC.
evadman
I assume it is similar to how you see “5.5HP” rated shop vacs. 5.5HP is 745 watts is 4100 watts, which is impossible to pull continuously on a 15 or 20A circuit. Absolute maximum allowed by US electrical code (section 210-23(a) of the code if you’re curious) for a 15A outlet is 80% of of the rating of the wire; meaning 12 amps.
Obviously, there is a gigantic mismatch here. Since 12a on a 120v circuit is 1440 watts (which is listed as the maximum for a lighting circuit by the way) and 1440 watts is slightly under 2HP, the true HP of anything that had a 15a plug is 2HP. Anything over 2 HP is marketing hogwash.
For example, the 1875 watts that a lot of hairdryers are rated for? They are actually rated/calculated at 125 volts and for less than 5 minute usage. 15amp at 125 volts = 1875 watts. so the “extra” is because the hair dryer is rated to use 1875 watts, but it isn’t possible because the outlet won’t have more than 120, and often 110 volts.
The mess with vacuums is worse. They are rated at inrush current, which is for the first few milliseconds after being turned on and before the magnetic field is builtin the motor. They are not “producing” 5 HP, but they pull 4000 watts for a split second, therefore, they can say that for a few milliseconds, their motor is pulling 5 HP worth of watts from the wall. Plug in a kill-a-watt, and see what your vacuum is actually pulling.
The reason the breaker doesn’t trip immediately is because breakers are designed for a motor’s inrush current. Otherwise, manufacturers would need to put in capacitors and other things (like a ballast in a light) to store energy to start the motor. In general, a breaker can handle 5 times the rating for up to a quarter second, some can go up to 19 or 10 times. There are 2 ways a breaker can trip. Magnetic (which is due to a short, can can be thousands of amps) or thermal (drawing more than the rated current for a while). Breakers will not trip when over-current is within reason, as the breaker’s job is to protect the wiring (and not start a fire).
If you’re super curious, I found square D’s 15 amp breaker trip curves. They are on page 22 of this document: https://ressupply.com/documents/square_d/QO_and_QOB_Circuit_Breakers.pdf
Their breakers will trip if more than 6 times the rating (90 amps) for more than about 2.5 seconds. At 1 second, the load has to be under 4 times (60a) and at 10 seconds under about 2 times (30 amp). finally, it will trip at anything over 15a at about the 300 second mark (10 minutes) That’s just the breaker protecting the wiring though; code still specifies a 12a maximum.
This has been your US electrical code post of the day ™
logan
HP on a vacuum might be dynometer HP, not wattage/power HP.
~~~~TORQUE*RPM/5252 = ~~HP
John
That power still has to come from somewhere, namely through the cord powering it. An electric motor outputting 1hp into a dyno must, at a minimum, assuming 100% efficiency, draw 745 watts. The only exception is if you’re talking about short peaks or pulses of higher output, which could average out to less current draw.
TonyT
That’s true — all circuit breakers have a trip curve, showing current vs time, and where the breaker must trip and where it might trip. Obviously with a higher current it will trip faster. There are also various standard curves for different applications.
Paul C
The charger is fundamentally a charge pump aka switching power supply. There are variations but this is one possible design. There is a diode rectifier on the front end that charges up a capacitor. On the back end there is a transistor that fires on and off to deliver pulses to a second capacitor. The battery is hooked up to the second capacitor. The firing of the transistor keeps the voltage across the second capacitor relatively constant. Conceptually at least this is how it works. These things are really easy to build but the off the shelf ones are cheaper than you can build them for.
The thing is that we want CONTROLLED current and voltage. If maximum output equals the specification then you can’t control it. Otherwise the charger would be underpowered and never meet maximum output. About 10% is reasonable and at 1800 W, another 200 W gives us 10% extra power so we can easily control the output voltage. So the real number is 1800 W but marketing got wind of the “2000 W design” and bumped the specification because 2000 sounds bigger.
PHILIP JOHN
Need to address how these tools are getting g around dewalt pantent. They may be paying dewalt a royalty! Different voltage is not enough to avoid patent infringement …. the genius is in the swichting. This is extremely important for the consumer to know since patent infringement can cause an order to stop production on these tools… just look into snap on and Bosch pantent infringement!
Doresoom
I thought I had seen somewhere that they were licensing the patent from DeWalt, but they only got permission for 36V instead of the full 54V. I don’t remember if it was official or where I saw the info though.
Benjamen
Unless Dewalt has an overly broad patent, I don’t see this being a problem. Generally in a patent you have to have a method (how) not just a concept (what) and the two systems use completely different methods to switch voltages.
The Flexvolt has a switch in the battery that selects the voltage based on tabs on the tool. As you slide the battery pack onto the tool, if it’s a 60V tool the tab will actuate the switch. If you have the cap, there’s a special location for a tab that will separate the battery into it’s 3 different banks for transportation.
The Hitachi battery brings two sets of 18V contacts out to the tool corresponding to the two separate banks of 5 cells in the pack. The tool then either connects the two sets of contacts in series to get 36V of parallel to get 18V.
I covered how the batteries work here: https://14cyiuhvcgv.com/how-hitachi-multivolt-18v-36v-batteries-work/%3C/a%3E%3C/p%3E
Joe
The AC adapter is the downfall… dragging around the box will destroy it…for a stainary mitre saw or tablesaw ,maybe but then just use a corded version.
…. maybe it’s a Europe thing…those dual tools won’t be around US construction sites..OSHA will love seeing that box hanging around…
Tim E.
It’s not much different than plugging in your fan or radio, which I see all the time. They have wall warts, which people usually put on the end of an extension cord. So you still have wall to cord to adapter brick to cord to tool. This one is just a bit bigger of an adapter brick.
Tim E.
I just looked it up, the cord on the AC adapter is 20 feet long. Assuming that’s referring to total length and split equally on each side (it likely isn’t, and the brick to tool length would likely be longer than this guess), that’s still 10 feet from the brick to the tool. That’s longer than most stock vacuum hoses.
As you say, I don’t see this being useful for drills or impacts or the like where you’re constantly moving all over the place, even with how light the adapter brick is. But I could see it being useful for something like a grinder setup for welding. Usually one has several grinders for that, and despite the convenience and sometimes safety of not dealing with a cord near your work, battery life makes cordless grinders in that application less than attractive. This may change that; use batteries when you especially want to and makes sense, otherwise you can still slap the cord on, and you’re back to just like your normal corded setup. Might be cost prohibitive though for the benefit…
A vacuum might be another good use case, sometimes you do want or need a cordless vacuum, especially as cordless saws and grinders and SDS hammers get more powerful. Who wants to fire up a generator just to run a vacuum if your rotohammer is already (or could be) cordless, but sometimes you need the runtime of corded. This gives it to you in one tool, albeit again for a premium. Maybe we’ll see a multivolt dust extractor coming soon that could leverage that. A circular saw might be another example of an occasionally-a-cord-would-be-good tool, if you’re at a “cutting station” you might want the runtime of a cord, but you’re also always carrying a circular saw around, so you could potentially condense what is today two tools into one.
I don’t see this replacing corded tools for things that are mostly stationary anyway, I see it more as an augment your higher drain cordless tools if you happen to be using them in one central location for an extended period. The cost is a little high to use it as a future-proofer against battery platform changes, but it does open more tools to that possibility. Once Metabo HPT moves past multivolt, you can still use your drill/circular saw/grinder/other tool as a corded tool. That was the reason I got a flexvolt miter saw, I can use it cordless or corded now, and once DeWalt moves past that platform in the future, I still have a good and workable corded saw.
Yadda
Making you review them out in the cold with the snow is rough! Thanks for taking one for the team!
Benjamen
It actually wasn’t that bad (from a Minnesotan perspective). It’s been hovering in the 20s and low 30s for a few weeks and I think it was actually above freezing that day.
Rob
My 9-5 is Electrical Engineering (Sr. level b/c I’m an older dude that has seen a few circuits in my lifetime…) The Metabo wall adapter is a “buck converter” operating at a high switching frequency to keep the size down while maintaining a healthy amount of output current. There are many, many ICs in production to design such a circuit and Texas Instruments or Linear Technology (expensive!) would be majority players in this area. Alternatively, an MCU running software could be used. There is probably a small fan inside to keep the temperature down, or it may use more a more modern, complex circuit design (synchronous rectification) to operate fanless. UL listing and regulatory approvals in general allow a “high line” condition to be considered, or +10% of the rated line voltage. 132V x 15A = 1980W. Metabo simply rounded…a Marketing Dept has EVERYTHING to do with specsmanship…engineers are rarely consulted on their completed designs.
MrWeedley
CPO has ton sale for $180 with eMate for free tool, battery or AC adapter
https://www.cpooutlets.com/metabo-hpt-c3610draq4m-multivolt-36v-brushless-10-in.-dual-bevel-sliding-miter-saw–tool-only-/mhpnc3610draq4m.html
Casey B
Does the AC adapter have two 18 volt outputs like the battery, or is it wired differently to only output 36 volts? What makes it not usable in an 18 volt tool?
I’m looking to do a hobbyist project, but I need 18 to 20 volts with 10 to 15 amp output. I’m wondering if I can split the voltage by only using certain pins from the AC adapter output.
Stuart
It can ONLY power MultiVolt 36V tools.
Casey B
It’s only designed for 36v tools. I’m asking if someone can read the output voltage on the pins.