I’ve started car shopping again, and it’s been less than fun.
Back in late 2016, I went with a GMC Acadia. It’s had too many problems over the years. Brake booster. Battery harness. Gear shift handle. Sensors. Brake pedal sensor. More sensors. I’m sure I’m forgetting something.
The dealership’s service department quality dropped. They botched the brake pedal replacement, not to mention the troubleshooting and diagnostic process.
Advertisement
The GMC’s not reliable, and I don’t trust the dealership either. So, I’ve started shopping around.
The Acadia’s 3 rows came in handy a few times over the years, and definitely its cargo space, leading me to shop for a 3-row SUV again.
I’ve been saying that my next car will be a pickup truck. It won’t be this time – I need something more family-friendly.
I haul tools and project materials for ToolGuyd purposes fairly regularly. I’ve managed without a truck. Would I benefit from it? Absolutely. If the need reaches a certain threshold, I can lease one as a business expense.
In the meantime, I can rent a truck, U-haul, or similar for rare times if situations absolutely call for it. But I need a comfortable daily driver for shuttling the kids around, errands, family outings, and visiting family.
I started with IIHS safety rating picks.
Advertisement
I checked out the Pilot over the weekend. I took a quick drive around a residential area to see if it was a maybe or hard no. It was pleasant, but felt… chunky.
I then went to a Mazda dealership to check out the CX-90. The floor model was all I needed to see – I really didn’t like the interior.
I all but ruled out the Highlander and Grand Highlander due to their lower IIHS safety ratings. I’m still open to other 3-row mid-size SUVs.
Since it was on the way home, I also checked out the Acura MDX, intending to put the Pilot into better context. The floor model encouraged me to take a brief but fun test drive. That was probably a mistake, as I enjoyed the ride.
My GMC gets fatiguing on longer rides. The Pilot felt… large? The MDX felt smoother than both.
The Pilot’s controls are a little nicer – in terms of user interface and control placements – but the MDX had a much nicer ride, and I liked some of the design elements better, such as how the blind spot alerts are on the inside rather than side mirrors.
I went to a Lexus dealership back in 2016 when I started my shopping. I don’t remember looking at any of the SUVs; all I remember is the strong feeling that I was in the wrong place. The Acura dealership felt more… subtle.
The Honda dealership felt like a bank, and I had the pleasure of witnessing two salespersons screaming at each other because one blocked in the other’s test drive.
Internet reviews are a mess. YouTube videos are a mess. There’s so much noise and fluff, not to mention AI nonsense about unannounced 2026 models.
Based on my brief test drives, and great reviews and commentary I found by SavageGeese, I at least know what to look for during my next test drives.
I’ve also learned my lesson. I need to keep up to date between cars, as it’s rough to catch up in a short period of time.
What do I want? Maybe a Tundra. What is most practical? A Pilot or similar. The MDX was a little ostentatious – which I suppose is part of the point – but it felt better to drive. I need to test drive both again to be sure. Maybe I’ll check out the Highlander or Grand Highlander for comparison, or maybe the Pathfinder.
It hasn’t been fun to match up the trim levels to the features I need, want, or would like. Looking at the price tag is always the most painful part.
I buy for 10+ years. That didn’t work out this time, but it’s the goal.
360° cameras? That’s only available on the higher trim levels of both the Pilot and MDX, which makes sense since they’re both Hondas.
The GMC headlights are terrible. The fog lights have been essential, rather than simply good-to-have. The MDX requires a couple of steps up to get fog lights.
Not to mince words, I couldn’t care less about style. I want a comfortable and quiet ride.
The MDX has close to the cargo capacity as my Acadia – and a bit more with the 3rd row in use – and the Pilot has considerably more than both.
The gas mileage is terrible on both. Toyota does a lot better in that space, even without going with a hybrid. But I’d strongly prefer a 6-cylinder engine over 4-cylinder turbo. Plus there’s a difference in IIHS safety ratings.
Deliberating about these things is difficult. Given the price difference between the Honda Pilot and Acura MDX, I’m looking at more features in a Pilot or a better ride in a less-featured MDX. Or, there’s the option to consider a comparatively featured MDX that costs a lot more than I anticipating spending.
My second Pilot test drive will have to involve parkway speeds – hopefully it feels closer to the MDX than during the brief residential drive. Despite the difference in feel – mostly with respect to driving – the Pilot is the frontrunner due to its better value.
What else should I look at in the 3-row AWD category?
D. Malone
Hyundai Palisades or Nissan ARMADA ( a little bigger ) . We have both plus 5 fleet trucks .
It is worth every penny to have the sensors and features as we age .
Also check out HOME DEPOT DAILY DEAL ON SOME TOOLS today
Jeff
I second looking at Hyundai. After having numerous issues with my 2020 Silverado and my daughter’s 2024 Trax, I went with a Tucson and Santa Cruz, boy AWD models. The warranty is the best and service has been awesome.
eddiesky
I don’t recommend the Armada. I rented one for a trip and POS. Snow caused all the sensors to freak out, pig on gas, and just felt Nissan cheap. I suspect the Infiniti version is just level upgrade of the Armada. I owned a Nissan once. Never again.
Co-worker owns the Palisades and she loves it. But she retired and uses it for short trips only. Kia is also worth a look…
Shawn Lovell
Stuart,
As silly as it sounds, look at the Mercedes GL450. Yes, it is probably 30k more than you want to spend but, if you really want a ten-year car, you will not regret it. They drive like a dream, have comfortable “for kids” 3rd row seating. We referred to ours as our living room. So quiet, you think you’re in the living room on the Barcaloungers. Tons of power and handles like a dream.
Stuart
That *starts* at $35K more than a fully loaded Pilot and more than $20K over a near fully featured MDX.
Jon
Hate to say it but the 2024 Mercedes GLS 450 is awesome. We had one on loan while our 2018 gls 63 was in for a few maintenance and repairs. It was a wonderful car even with ~200 less horsepower.
Quiet, spacious, adequately featured with tech, style, ride quality, we’re all better than our flagship 3row. Our loaner had 2nd row captains and it was honestly making us think about trading in our 7 year old Mercedes. Maintenance isn’t awful.
I’d advocate for a test drive of the gls 450 in your trim of choice. I’ve owned or driven at least 7 other full/mid size 3 row suvs between ford/lincoln, Chevy Cadillac, BMW, Land Rover, Kia, jeep and rivian. Our old gls was our favorite, only until we lived with the newest Mercedes offering.
Cheers and good luck!
Peter
Ever considered a wagon?
GF got a Mercedes wagon with a 3rd row and that thing is so much fun to drive.
Made me realize how big and clumsy my two Silverados really are.
If I would not need trucks for work I would have a wagon but I also do not have kids
I’ll second the build quality on GMC/Chevy.
My 2017 Silverado will be the last modern Chevy for me.
Stuart
I’m preferential to the ride and cargo height of SUVs. I’m also looking for hitch and potentially light towing capable.
OhioHead
How about an Outback or Forester, can’t remember how big your family is Stuart?
will
At least recommend the Ascent, the taller version of the Outback. It would be the lightest.
I’d recommend a 2nd hand Nissan NV2500
Stuart
@OhioHead 2 kids
@Will, I’ve started looking at the Ascent, and one thing that stood out is that there’s low availability. The 2 closest dealers have tons of Foresters, very few Ascents, I’m not sure what the implication is.
Scott K
We just finished a lease on our second forester – I wouldn’t recommend one. It served us fairly well, but Subaru charges a premium for many features that are standard in comparable cars. We also found that in 3 years we replaced things we don’t feel we should have in such a short period of time. They’ve had a number of issues with the Ascent when it comes batteries and electronics. We just leased a Hyundai Tucson PHEV and so far I am really enjoying it. There are some great rebates and incentives – ours cost less than the comparable hybrid model because of this.
Derek
Outback and Forester do not have third row seating. The Subaru Ascent is a little bigger and does though
OhioHead
Ascent needs a model refresh.
Forester just had a refresh for 25
Outback refresh “I think” is for 26 with the new toyota/subaru hybrid technology.
Crosstrek is too small, Volvo Cross Country is an expensive option as well.
Good luck Stu!
Alex
I’m going to suggest two things you didn’t ask for.
1. A truck with a front bench (possible on current gen Rams, at least) gets you 6 seats in a pinch, and is much more comfortable for 4 or 5 than a 3 row SUV. With a tonneau cover, you get more storage as well.
Plus better resale value than any SUV.
2. The VW id.buzz is extremely interesting. I’m an EV nerd with solar, so take it with a grain of salt, but that thing has a ton of space and looks like a blast.
Failing that, I would just suggest that you try to avoid overanalyzing the purchase. If you like the Honda/Acura more than the Toyota/Lexus, then get that.
Joe E.
If you’re planning to keep the vehicle 10+ years, I would eliminate anything from Hyundai and Kia from your search. I know too many people who have had complete engine failures before 100k and the dealer service departments absolutely screwed them.
As for GM, the past two GM vehicles we’ve owned (both less than 5 years old) have had so many little problems that I’m annoyed. GM’s build quality appears to be getting worse.
Our 2019 Rav4 however is an excellent vehicle. Not a single issue out of it in the first 50k miles. My in-laws drive a 2020 Highlander and have had 0 issues, over 100k miles. Going forward, any new vehicle we buy will 100% be a Toyota.
Jason M
+1 for this.
One of my closest friends is in upper management of a large car dealership group that owns brands across all major manufacturers.
His favorite demo has been the grand wagoneer but that’s a 6 figure vehicle well equipped.
His advice to us when we were looking third row was Santa Fe. Absolutely unmatched warranty from
The bumper to bumper, power train, rust, I think free service for the first 3 years or something and roadside assistance. Hyundai and Kia took a hit because of the ignition stuff with people stealing them but buying a new vehicle that you know you’re gonna own for a while. The Santa Fe made the most amount of sense for us. I just wish the rear end wasn’t so ugly lol. Phenomenal tech and safety features though
Jason M
Should also mention there’s a higher end trim that has captains chairs in the middle row so the back seat is easier to access, as well as the Kia version Telluride.
CMF
Toyota and Honda have been reliability leaders for years. As such, they are priced a bit more for similarly equipped competitors; but they also retain a higher resale value. Of course, in Stuart case, keeping it 10+ years, the resale value is worthless and should not be a criteria.
Ted
Will strongly disagree with this. Have owned a three Hyundais (2 Sonatas and a Sante Fe) that have gone over 150k, and one that went to 225k.
scott
I have the exact opposite experience with kia and hyundai. Kia soul is still killing it and it is a 2009, oldest boy has been driving it since mom passed and left it to him. Only issue was the steering column issue. Dealer fixed it with no issue. I have the new ioniq 6 – 2024, and it has 29k+ miles on it in less than 20 months. If you are leaving the neighborhood you taking the ioniq (we get about 350 miles a charge and the electric vehicle rate makes it less than $0.01 a mile to drive in fuel. Never had as nice a vehicle as it. gets about 4.5 miles to the KW and at night it is 0.049 a KW) I drove a 1996 f-150 straight 6 300 for 23 years before I got a ridgeline and it has been great as well. No more merican cars for me.
Goodie
I would ignore the naysayers on Hyundai/KIA. That said, I have an in-law who does the noise/vibration/handling on their platforms. He’s been able to recommend the best models and options to me.
I have a 2018 KIA Sorento EX as my daily driver. It’s been great. It has a naturally aspirated V6 and has been utterly reliable. The 2015-17 models had some engine issues (most brands occasionally have them). It’s AWD, has a third row (that leaves very little room for cargo hauling but does work), and has sufficient internal volume. I have a roof rack I use for hauling lumber.
Wife has an Electrified GV70 (which is very comfortable). An absolutely fantastic EV that still feels like a car in all the right ways. The Sorento is the absolute last ICE car I am goin to buy.
Michael F
The segment you’re shopping in is very, very difficult. The 3 row, AWD, crossover market is crowded and uninspiring. As an auto enthusiast, I found very little to get excited about when we recently shopped the same segment. Luckily, my wife ended up deciding on a TRD Pro Toyota Sequoia, which I’ve really enjoyed.
Personally, if I needed a mid-size SUV, I’d forgo the 3rd row and get one of the new 6th gen 4Runners. However, I probably have very different needs as my kids are now teenagers.
R. N.
VW Tiguan, not too big for 3 row seating, still a manageable size.
Wife has a mazda, were not a fan of it. I have a tacoma and love it.
Family has had Subaru, Hyundai, Jeep.
Never had luck with Jeeps. Hyundai has gone well so far.
Tried and true for us have been Subaru and Toyota. But we keep looking outside as recalls make a difference in our decisions now especially with all those airbag related recalls.
LGonToolGuy'd
Volkswagen US is in the bottom 5 least reliable vehicles in US.
razl
I’d suggest you at least kick the tires on an off-lease or 2-3 yr used Certified Pre Owned (CPO) Volvo XC90. It will have the balance of a 5year factory warranty and you can buy an additional 5 years of factory warranty on top of it (for a total 10 years from its original in service date).
Note that earlier models like my 2016 were problematic, but those have been sorted out with 2017+. You’d be looking at 2022-2023 and should be good to go. There’s a range of powertrains and you can get a factory polestar software “tune” that makes them more fun to drive.
Note that, if problematic, they can be expensive to maintain – hence the extra 5yr factory warranty for about $4k is worth it. I’d also look at the pre-paid mantenance (likely +$2k’ish). Also note that the extra 5 years doesn’t cover some wear-and-tear items that are covered in the original 5 years, like hoses.
At least check one out, you might be surprised. Hope that helps!
Empiric Sleeves
+1 on the XC90.
Check out the mechanic who does underbody reviews of vehicles on YouTube. His walkthrough on how the XC90 is constructed, plus the fact is has a transmission from Toyota/Lexus, convinced us this was the best built vehicle in its class.
Last year it was also eligible for the full $7500 EV tax credit through a lease loophole (lease, and then purchase it outright). This can bring the price down to the other options you’re looking at.
Also qualifies for the Section 179 accelerated depreciation deduction criteria as well if you’re eligible for that.
General tip on 3-row SUVs: a six seat configuration makes it very minivan like in terms of moving kids around the middle and back row. Game changer.
Lack
SavageGeese review would kill this idea.
razl
I’d say Mark from SG got both a lemon xc90 and, from the sounds of it, a dealer that wasn’t very good, given the back and forth’s he had with it in and out of the shop. Also, I’m pretty sure he was in a 2018’ish version which, again, would have been considered part of the gen1 class of the SPA based XC90s, which have been greatly improved since then.
I’ll also note that from that he landed in an X5, and I think that adds a bit to the story. If an X5 makes you happy, I don’t think the XC90 is going to be the right vehicle for you (even with the Polestar tune).
I’m not dismissing his criticisms or experience, and there are lots of others with horror stories (both XC90s and X5s!), but he track record on XC90s beyond the early years is a lot different.
ps – for more details, see Swedespeed forum.
Surfjungle
I’ve had a second hand Volvo XC90 T8 Inscription Pro for over 1 year. It’s 3 years old I’m very happy. There’s oodles of space for the size of it, great power yet surprisingly economic and a very fine interior with leather seats.
I’ve watched that Savage Geese video. He got a lemon. From memory, I was disappointed that he didn’t seem to do much analysis in the way of this being an outlier or why it was happening. There are far too many happy owners out there myself included. It’s dangerous to base purchasing decisions based on a single review and that’s why I encouage people to look not just at my good experience and SG’s bad but the thousands of others compared with issues people have. The cost to service it was reasonable too.
razl
I rewatched the SG video and had to come back and fix up some mistakes of mine…
Mark got a 2019 not a 2018’ish (I was close!) but still, that’s the tail end of the first gen SPA run.
He still got a lemon, he had every bad experience you could have minus the 2016 oil / piston rings issue. Capped with the classic leaking sunroof which is a killer. He also had the too-common warped rotors problem, made worse by the early lane assist.
All that was legit and there’s plenty of others who suffered through the same problems. So I’m not trying to diminish his negatives.
Oh, and he landed in an X7 instead of an X5, my bad!
However, those first gen issues have pretty much been resolved since 2020. And, like I said before, getting an extended warranty can mitigate what’s left (although not the inconvenience).
I still say being able to get a newer gen, slightly used, with an additional factory manufacturer warranty that takes the buyer out 7-8 years, is very compelling option.
Again, hope that helps!
razl
ps – it occurred to me that my previous info re: extended warranty might not be clear. For Volvo Certified Pre-Owned vehicles, Volvo offers their own, manufacturer, extended warranties up to an additional 5 years. There’s a number of options regarding how much deductible you want, mileage, etc. And, like I said earlier, they are bumper to bumper but do have some exclusions for wear-and-tear items that the original 5 year warranty doesn’t (hoses, upholstery, etc.).
Still, it’s a pretty amazing offering that almost no other manufacturer comes close to. You’re getting an actual manufacturer’s warranty that is out to year 10 of the vehicle’s life. My 2016 (that I got CPO’d at 2 years in 2018) is on it’s last year now.
Some other not-so-obvious benefits of Volvo’s warranty – anything repaired under it is warrantied by volvo _for_life_. Also, the warranty includes all software updates along the way, and more.
Not to sound like a Volvo shill, my first gen 2016 has had it’s share of issues, but the Volvo extended warranty deal on CPO vehicles isn’t widely known and can make it a very compelling purchase.
Hope that helps!
Stephen S
Check out the Hyundai Santa Fe. The outside isn’t the prettiest, but it has three rows and is available as a hybrid. We don’t get the claimed mileage but it is still better than the gas only models.
Joellikestools
My wife has an Expedition, and we love it. We have a 2020, I have heard of more reliability with next generation of models that came next. GMC seems to be having reliability issues all around.
Joellikestools
Er, reliability issues after the 2020 model. Is how that should have read. woops.
MM
In my opinion the core issue is that cars are well past the hump of their “tech curve”.
Early cars were terrible: unsafe, slow, miserable range and fuel economy, the driver had to do everything manually. Technology soon improved and brought with it many useful innovations, some of them very important, like fuel injection, anti-lock brakes, seat belts, electronic ignition, and general improvements in reliability, etc. But I feel that cars have passed the point where all the honest improvements have been made and now it’s only the bad ideas left over that seem to get shoehorned in. I don’t want a touch-screen, six billion sensors, and automatic mood lighting. These are steps backward.
Luke
That’s a really good way to put it. My truck doesn’t even have physical volume buttons on the console. It’s absurd.
Wayne R.
Was listening to a good mechanic wonder who thought an oil sensor was needed, like a dipstick was just too simple/reliable.
My previous job kept me flying & getting rental cars – it was always a puzzle figuring out just too many screens & buttons.
Scott K
Yes! The e dipstick on our BMW is a PITA. We recently had an issue where the mechanic assured us they added the correct amount and we must have a leak- another mechanic drained the oil and measured that not nearly enough was added. All of this could have been avoided with a real dipstick. I believe most German cars forgo a physical dipstick.
KMR
Eliminating the dipstick and implementing proprietary service performed procedures are simply meant to keep you chained to the dealer.
One of my Italian cars has a dipstick, the other does not. But I can read the real-time level via OBD port and special software. But I now put in 90% of fill level, and then I’ll slowly add the balance as I watch the real time level indicator in the software. Way easier to do it this way, than deal with an oil over-fill warning and have to try and drain the excess (with no dipstick to suck through).
LGonToolGuy'd
Can you car accept a fumoto valve? 💞
skfarmer
we have 3 chevy trucks in the fleet. a 12 regular cab long 4×4 longbox at 100k. 1 cv axle and a radiator. owned since new. a 16 crew cab at 4×4 at 106k bought used, ac leaked and repaired and lastly a 20 crewcab 4×4 with 50k. no major repairs. all are 1500s and have been great vehicles.
my wife currently drives a 22 blazer. it took a bit to get all of the covid features installed and operating but it has been a great vehicle, before that were a variety of acadia and traverse models. going back 15 or so years. a warranty timing chain replacement, a known issue with them was our only major repair, they were all solid rigs.
as usual your experience my vary but i have had good luck with gm vehicles my whole life. they all see about 20/80% gravel/ highway mix.
my experience has shown me that vehicles are generally pretty good or pretty bad, you get a lemon or don’t. maybe i have just been lucky. if you draw the short stick and have a lemon coupled with a poor dealer you have a terrible experience.
my buddy is a ford guy through and through. loves them but is continually working on them. he also consistently takes them to over 200k. he currently has an edge that wants to make his life miserable with electrical gremlins. he swears he will never buy another one after his issues but always does. go figure.
Liam
Don’t forget the Honda Ridgeline
Stuart
Back seat is cramped.
Luke
Can confirm – 3 kiddos in the back row is 1 one too many. It could be worst though; it could be a Tacoma.
Old Suburban Dad
First Gen Ridgeline owner and my kids (14 yo boy- 6′ 1″ ; 12 yo g – 5’5″ ; 8 yo g 4’6″) fit great in the back row.
I believe the leg room and door entry angle was worse in newer generations.
David
Given your requirements, I wonder if the Subaru Ascent would make sense.
I went through a similar search, albeit for a mid-size SUV and and ended up wanting a RAV4 Prime but they just weren’t available without huge markups, delays, and lack of choice around features. I walked into a Honda dealership and was able to buy a CRV hybrid off the lot – and then found that 2024 CRV hybrids had an ongoing issue with fuel injectors when mine failed, and am now 2 recalls into it too.
Mr. Creek
If the 3rd does is a must the Ascent is a good option to consider. If the 3rd row is just a once in a blue moon use and you can go without Subaru Outback Touring. The issue with the touring trim level is they are hard to find used with low mileage. When people get their hands on those they don’t give them up (it took us 2 years to find a low mileage one) . My wife has one of those and it’s been an amazing vehicle. It has generous storeage capacity, handles well in tight turns, good gas mileage and the v6 plenty of pep. We drive to a property we have in a ski town in Colorado where the mountain pass can get crazy nasty. On every switchback the road conditions can ibe so bad your making deals with Jesus on every turn. The Touring model has performed better than almost anything else I have encountered. To get the fullest use of it get a good roof rack and a full size trailer hitch, Aftermarket upgrade.
David
I absolutely agree on the Outback – I’d had two Outbacks before my CRV, and they’re lovely vehicles that are amazing for hauling, their AWD and snow handling is really impressive, and they’re well thought-out.
I just wish they had a hybrid option!
Badger12345
I have a Subaru Outback.
Pros: It has a lot of leg room in the front and back along with a more than average amount of headroom. It is very comfortable for four people while still having hauling capacity in the back. Highest possible ratings for all crash tests and IIHS. It is highly rated by Consumer Reports for whatever that means.
Cons: Can have some weird problems that will perplex dealers and Subaru is slow to issue recalls. Underpowered in the NA 4 cyl engine. The 6 is no longer available. Requires regular maintenance to stay reliable — more so than other vehicles like Honda. Later models have lots of controls moved to the touchscreen which some dislike.
I recommend you consider a test drive to see if contender.
I live in snow country and with AWD and dedicated winter tires I can go pretty much anywhere.
Jayvarblaze
I have a 2017 Outback v6 model. Love it but hate it. Love how easy it is to drive .. had a few weird electrical issues the first 2 years but man it’s been a beast ever since close to 140k miles on it. The reason I hate it is that it’s not giving me any major problems because I’m ready for a new car.
teicher
I was going to recommend you look at the Subaru Ascent as well. Two of my neighbors have them and the third row option was a key feature they were looking for.
Stuart
I’ll check that out too, thanks!
Last time I shopped around, the only Subaru dealer near me was small and the brief experience uninspiring.
Ethan Bolderson
I just purchased an Ascent about a year ago. I;ve loved it ever since, only downside is the gas mileage is less than the Highlander. But I felt this was the smoothest ride between the Pathfinder, Pilot, and Highlander. it didn’t feel like I was driving a boat. plus, I got a lot of bells and whistles for pretty much the same as the base models of the Highlander and Pilot.
Richard
For a true 3 row, the Ascent is the only place in the Subaru lineup with the required room. We purchased a 2023 Ascent dealer loaner earlier this year. The better half wanted a true three row and a Subaru so that’s where we landed. Nothing really excites me about this model, but at 1/2 century old with a wonkey back I can take 4 hour drives and not have my back question my sanity. It also doesn’t hurt that for many years I have appreciated our local Subaru dealer for their soft sales techniques both in sales and service.
The Ascent we purchased has most of the available options and the center dash stack isn’t the best, but it’s not my car so I keep my mouth shut and the heated seat on. It’s also just as big as the regular SUV’s. It sits at close to the same size as a Ford Explorer from the outside.
At the time there seemed to be a few low mileage Ascents around and it’s a lot easier to appear happy with that initial depreciation taken off. If space and not the 3 rows is important, you could look at the The Forester is brand new this year. Sales have been consistently dropping month over month so deals might be had when Subaru wants to clean out their backlog. From what I’ve read, it’s a great car except for the price jump from the Crosstrek making people look at the significant difference if they can go down in size just a little bit.
Nathan
We have a 2016 Ford explorer that’s been in the shop once and I’ve fixed it once with 165000 miles on it. I plan to get the wifey another.
I see you’ve focused on foreign marks so I’m guessing you won’t consider one. But since you seemed inclined to go Honda Acura then I’d say look at a Lincoln also. Maybe a cpo to save some.
MDX is a bit more car like than the pilot but also more performance oriented suspension and driveline.
Curious do you have more than one car? Is it also an SUV like device? Might change the recommendation.
Likewise people seem to love the new jeep line. Grand Cherokee and wagoneer. I don’t know I can recommend a stellantis product but you can read about the experiences. I have issues with what can be worked on well and I’ve gravitated to Ford because of this with respect to computer scanning and modification when desired but I used to also be a gm person.
I say that and I have scan software for all Ford’s some GMs some Audi/VW and BMW.
Stuart
My wife has a 10 year old Mazda 3 and is set on eventually replacing it with another small vehicle.
So far I think we each like having our own vehicles, and cross-drive on very rare occasions for specific reasons.
Nathan
We are the same in that regard but I used to race my daily. Then got a truck. Didn’t think I would like it. But now I’m contemplating a lightning.
Maybe consider the crew cab
Stuart
Length is the biggest downside to a truck. I have a checkup later this month, and a truck would be near impossible to maneuver in the parking lot and its exit path. Shorter trucks have reduced rear seat space and comfort. I haven’t felt strongly about either to justify the different headaches they’d present.
Even just picking up lunch at the local shopping center – parking there is a disaster as-is. I can’t imagine navigating that mess with 3 feet of added body length.
I tend to have to remind myself of this.
Koawaft
You say you do not care about aesthetics. Prove it. A minivan will get better gas milage, haul more stuff, will be less exhausting on long trips. I have taken our Sienna and Sedona off-road more than 80% of jeep owners. I had a kid that was into rocks. We drove on some crazy fire roads. Only lost the rear bumper once. We also fit a lot of lumber in the back for various projects the seats either fold out of the way or are easier to remove than any SUV. AWD is an option for most but with snow tires and FWD you probably won’t have anny issues. Only problem is it’s a minivan.
Chuck
I came down here to say Sienna or Carnival.
Sienna has the more refined hybrid powertrain, but the Carnival still comes in a v6 if you want it but is FWD only.
I haven’t had to worry about the kids dinging doors since, the door opening are huge, and the third row seat is more comfortable than any three row SUV.
Aaron
I would third the Sienna. There is a Woodland edition with more ground clearance and towing. The aero shape and hybrid AWD would help with the gas mileage. And the interior size can’t be beat by an SUV. Plus real adults can fit in the third row. Minivans also handle better than SUVs and crossovers.
Ben
Maybe it’s just me (6’2″, 205) but I think the back seat is not that comfortable in my 2024 XLE Sienna, even with the captains’ chairs moved up. It’s a head-height issue with the ceiling on the sides, and the seatbelt buckle digs into my butt in the middle.
Other than that, though, I’ve been happy with the interior size capacity and the gas mileage is decent enough – been only getting about 32 MPG, EPA is 35/36 if I remember right.
Stuart
My sister has an Odyssey and I rode in it once. It felt a bit too big to me.
When I was home with my kids when they were both infants, I’d go to the mall with a tiny EDC-type bag with everything I needed and either a compact stroller or chest carrier. I’d see people with fully-loaded and overflowing strollers and diaper bags that could have swallowed 4 of mine.
In the past 10 years, there were 0 times when the larger capacity of a minivan would have come in handy, at least with respect to the kids. For hauling things around, it might have saved me a couple of trips.
I’ve gotten spoiled. I’ll throw 2 bags of mulch or 1 bale of potting soil into the trunk. More than that and I’ll pay a little extra for local delivery.
My needs might change when the kids become teenagers, but there’s no way for me to anticipate what they’ll be into regarding where we’ll go or near to haul around.
TomD
I’d at least take a test drive in a few of them, there’s only so many on the market, after all, and you’ll probably be at the dealership anyway.
The biggest advantage I’ve found with the minivans is the doors and the complete ability to rearrange the seats as desired; that turns out surprisingly useful and hard to give up.
They’re also the smallest vehicle with usable third rows I’ve found, everything else is tiny cramped or a full size Suburban or transit van.
Bob
The minivan may feel too big, but compared to a 2025 Honda pilot, the only dimension that’s bigger is the length. Minivans just have better space usage.
2205
Odyssey 205″L*79W*70T
Pilot 200″L*79″W*71″T
The only reason to buy a Pilot over the Odyssey is anti-minivan bias.
Bonnie
Vans, whether mini, transit, or sprinter-sized are awesome vehicles.
Joel
Plus 1 for the minivan. I would own one except the way it looks is important to wifey. So I have a Highlander hybrid, and get 32mpg WITH two yards of gravel in my trailer.
Plus backing a trailer with the hybrid is a distinct pleasure because of all the torque. Never gonna buy a pickup truck again LOL.
G console
Minivan! Sienna!
I put 3 mountain bikes, camping gear, 4 or 5 people inside mine all at once. Its got 206k and is just starting to show some problems that are making me think about ditching it because it is beat to hell. I use it as a truck, hauling everything in it.
tooluser
How about Kia EV9 or Mercedes EQB?
Stuart
Not ready for an EV – maybe next car as charging infrastructure matures.
A lot of my driving is local, but also unfamiliar longer distance. Having to plan out charging is something I’m not keen on.
CMF
What about HEV or PHEV?
Stuart
Open to it, but haven’t found a model I like that offers this.
Goodie
We took the dive into EV a while ago. Depending on where you live, charging is pretty doable. The vehicles usually have all of the software to help you plan. The real benefit of EVs is the operating cost. We pay $80 per month on our electrical bill to drive 2000 miles per month. Routine service is much less expensive than a gas car due to much fewer moving parts. Brakes get done every three years.
The opening of the Tesla Supercharger network to the whole market is also coming. The KIA EV9 is getting good reviews and is now eligible for the $7500 tax credit. EVs are still selling fairly well, but not as fast as the manufacturers want. There are very good incentives on them right now.
The best news is that Tesla’s aggressive price cuts are hitting the EV market as a whole. You can get an almost new EV9 (5000 miles – with lots of warranty) for about $45K and up.
John
I bought my wife a new 2021 Pilot and I have a 2019 F-150 crew cab. With two toddlers, we consistently end up using the F-150 for everything. The inside space is more usable with two car seats. Love the fully flat floor. We can pack bags to go under the seats and there’s a ton of room on the floor between back seats and fronts. Tonneau cover keeps everything in the bed dry, and a ratcheting organizer bar keeps stuff in place. I routinely have my whole family + supplies, a bed full of tools, and enough room to haul off trash each weekend.
For us, nothing tops a crew cab and we’re spoiled by it. Next move is trading the Pilot for an Odyssey when I can locate one we both like.
Yadda
Thanksgiving week, we rented a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Three rows, comfortable ride. Great interior, and lots of room. I don’t know about reliability, but it fills a lot of your check boxes.
G G
Jeep has priced themselves out of the market.
Dave
Just went through a similar search (3 row SUV for the wife and kids), ended up with a 2020 Highlander Hybrid. The Pilot was too big for the garage, as was the Pathfinder, and I didn’t trust the reliability of basically anything else. Even the gas Highlanders (as well as Camry/Rav4/Sienna) since 2017+ have the horrible UA80 transmission (https://www.toyotanation.com/threads/official-2017-2019-ua80-transmission-whine-failure-thread.1778733/), but the hybrids have a slick planetary gear system they call the “eCVT” (it’s not a traditional CVT in any way). I didn’t bother to look at the IIHS safety ratings (apparently they weren’t to your liking, and I completely respect that), but I chose the Highlander Hybrid strictly for reliability. Might be worth a second look?
Oz
Long time reader and lurker, first time commenting*
An older Lexus GX 460 would be perfect for you.
Cheap compared to its Toyota cousins (luxury brand depreciation at its finest)
Baby version of the over engineered legendary land cruiser.
Tundra 4.6 v8 that is reliable and can tow quite a bit.
Comfy and luxurious on the inside.
Dead reliable (my 2011 is creeping on 200,000 miles with no major breakdowns and plan on keeping to 300,000+)
subtle as it is mainly driven by soccer moms despite it’s rugged off roading chops.
cj10
If you are looking at 3 row SUVs, I highly recommend the Kia Telluride. I am on year 4 with it and absolutely love it. I had the first model year of the new design so there were some recalls but everything was addressed quick and it has been rock solid. I would buy another one in a heartbeat. Perfect amount of room and comfort.
Rman
I have the Toyota Highlander and like the suv quite a lot. The third row seats are a joke. They barely fit a young teenager. The other problem with the third row seats are they are not removable because the computer goes nuts and beeps all the time. It has the v6 engine and 8 speed transmission which moves quite quickly but only 22mpg. Check out several dealers and choose one that is nice and listens to you. My rt23 dealer will Never see me or my money again. I initially chose for close to home bad decision
Good luck
Stuart
I think that’s true for most midsize 3-row.
If needed maybe once or twice a year, the kids can cram into the 3rd row and extra adults in the 2nd. Other than that, my interest is in the storage capacity.
James
The Grand Highlander greatly improves the functionality of the third row. We have the standard hybrid (not max) and have averaged 33mpg.
Stuart
Thanks! I might give that a try too before deciding.
Flurb
The Highlander is one of the smallest in terms of third row. The Korean twins, Honda, and Grand Highlander are a bit roomier.
Nathan
I’m going from memory but if I recall some years ago Honda took the Ridgeline and pilot over to a new chassis for them only. And again if I recall correctly the MDX was never the pilot chassis and suspension it was always a bit different and more like accord/tl.
Meanwhile new explorer chassis is interesting as it’s back to rwd basis with an AWD option. Handles really well for it’s size. There was supposed to be a plug in hybrid by now.
Flurb
Nope. Pilot and MDX are the same, though the MDX has more sophisticated suspension (Pilot just uses struts up front). The Pilot has the same mechanical torque vectoring rear differential as the MDX. That one piece is a class above anything else the Pilot competes with.
Minivan Convert
Another vote here for minivan. They get such a bad rap, but holy crap is it easily one of the most functional and comfortable options out there (and the 3rd row seat is actually usable unlike the 3 row SUVs).
Toyota Sienna is AWD and hybrid too which gets at least 35 mpg, and they last like 300,000 miles with nothing more than fluids changes and tire rotations. The hybrid battery will last 20 years, too.
I’d avoid Kia and Hyundai and definitely the Chrysler Pacifica is a no-go due to being a POS, and Odyssey has been having seriously bad transmission and reliability issues, but the Sienna is bulletproof, comfortable, family and equipment hauling friendly, and decently styled. Hauling lumber, pipes, tools, panels, whatever is stupid easy and I’ve never once worried about reliability.
What Toyota lacks in fancy shiny tech and luxurious finishes and high resolution backup cameras they more than make up for in build quality and reliability and holding their value for several years. Model year 2021+ Sienna is the obvious choice to me. Good luck whatever you choose.
Nathan
Dude does make a point the minivan is ideal here. The doors get out of your way….. .
Can’t say it enough. And your kids won’t push them into the car next to you. New ones open with the fob
While I don’t like stellantis I do like the Pacifica and the stow n go seating. We’ve rented 2 of them for trips. Why mostly to put it in front of the wifey. And I say that other one has another point we use my crew can truck probably more than the explorer and with 2 kids plenty of room
Luke
Minivan FTW. Ours [2015 Odyssey] has been phenomenal for 150k miles now. It’s been through dozens of multi-state road trips. It’s just so spacious and comfortable. It can even haul full sheets of plywood and sheetrock. It’s not pretty, but hell neither is my Ridgeline. What matters is that they meet our needs well.
Bob Elrod
The Honda Pilot uses a timing belt instead of a timing chain and it has to be replaced at 100K miles. Wait a few months because, Stellantis is about to drop MSRP 35% on Chrysler, Dodge, Ram, Jeep and everyone else will have to follow. Used car prices will also drop when the new car drops 35% and a low mileage pre 2020 vehicle would be a good choice.
Flurb
So what. Most Hondas (and Toyotas – all the legendarily reliable ones, in fact) used belts. On the pilot, it is pretty accessible. It is a non issue.
Luis
Yes, the timing belt will last you a while but if Stuart is planning on keeping the vehicle for 10 years he’ll need to replace that one and the water pump at least once. That’s a $1500 job right there, just something to consider.
The only leegndary Toyota I can think of that uses a Timing Belt is the UZ V8 found in the LS400 (4.0 version) and Tundra/Sequoia (4.7 version). The 5VZ-FE was good as well but most legendary Toyota engines are indeed driven by a timing chain.
Andrew
I have a 2016 Honda Pilot, over 250k miles on with no major issues. I got it over other vehicles for the right balance of cost/value to storage capacity. I understand what you mean by the the large feel, my wife finds it much harder to drive than her Subaru Crosstrek.
Dbuck
I would check out the update 2025 Honda Pilot IIHS ratings. Looks like the rear passenger restraints were downgraded to marginal, which I assume would be important for you and your kids.
Stuart
Yes, but apparently enough G’s to keep an overall Top Safety Pick+ rating. The MDX is the same. Every model seems to have some deductions, mostly for the same – rear restraint kinematics.
Dbuck
I guess I don’t quite understand what keeps the Grand Highlander from being a top safety pick as well. I’ve looked through the criteria for the 2024 top safety picks + and it seems that the Grand Highlander meets all of them. In fact the Honda Pilot doesn’t meet their criteria by recording a marginal in the updated moderate overlap test. Is it possible their list is outdated?
Stuart
Could be? I looked for the Grand Highlander Hybrid Max, and dealers only have it on order (“in production”) and with $4k of random dealer-added options.
Joe
are they finally including safety of pedestrians and others outside of the vehicle? because it’s the big issue with the Highlander – absolutely deadly to anyone else on the road or pavement. it’s not a lifted RAM but it’s no smartcar.
mikedt
I think you need a minivan 🙂
Jared
I drive a 2020 Mitsubishi Outlander. It’s technically a 3-row SUV. “Technically”, because the 3rd row folds down and I don’t think I’ve ever actually used it…
It might be a smaller SUV than what you’re looking at. I realize there’s been a redesign since I bought mine, but the new ones don’t seem radically different.
Mine is 4 cylinder turbo, but the “GT” trim is a 6 cylinder (and there’s the PHEV). Gas mileage is surprisingly good for a 4wd mid-sized SUV.
I haven’t had any issues so far – literally none (unless you count losing a wheel weight, but that’s the kind of granular complaint I’d have to make if asked about issues). I’ve got about 135,000 kms on it now.
It does require a little more maintenance than some of the other vehicles I’ve owned, e.g. transfer case and differential fluids semi-regularly – and using a special gear oil that only Mitsubishi sells. There are suitable alternatives of course, but if you want to keep that 10yr/100,000 mile powertrain warranty alive…
I’m not that happy with my dealership’s service department either, but that’s a dealer-specific complaint. They started out great, then something switched about two years in (maybe a new manager or something). They constantly tried to sell me on an accelerated maintenance schedule, would schedule me in at 8am for fluid changes and not have my vehicle ready at days-end, stopped bothering with my “free” car wash, raised the prices for oil changes and routine maintenance, etc.
It’s the best winter vehicle I’ve ever-owned, it’s nice and stable on the highway, the 4wd system works great. I admit I bought it mostly on price – I just went to a few dealerships looking to negotiate a deal on an SUV and Mitsubishi gave me a great one. However, it turned out to be a fantastic machine.
When I decide to get a new SUV, I’ll probably start with Mitsubishi (and then shop around just like last time).
Empiric Sleeves
+1
I posted about the XC90 above, which is what we ultimately went with, But we also looked hard at the Outlander.
Both have PHEV options, and both the Volvo and Misubishi dealers were willing to offer us the $7500 lease EV tax credit loophole (lease and then pay it off). Neither Kia nor Hyundia dealers were open to exploiting this loophole (and I’m also not sure it still exists?).
If you don’t need the extra space of the XC90 I would definitely give the Outlander a serious look.
The one caveat is it appears Mitsubishi may be a little more on the front lines of staring down this automaker reckoning that Tesla, etc. have kicked-off.
Farmerguy
Testing driving a crew cab pickup sounds like it should be included for research purposes. I’m not a tax advisor, but depreciating a portion of it and 179 depreciation for its portion of business use may tip the scales this time. Also, the number of 300k mile pickups out there attests to longevity (yes, more pickups means higher visibility if outliers). Sorry this wasn’t your ask, but needed to share.
Stuart
The length is the biggest downside, and concerns over long distance ride quality.
Full size crew cabs are significantly longer, and my Acadia is already a tight fit at supermarkets, restaurants, and the handful of times I need to parallel park.
Smaller pickups like the Ridgeline seem a bit cramped for longer drives with the kids, and without much advantage regarding cargo capacity.
I’d have to talk to my accountant, but I don’t think the deduction would be significant unless I leased a vehicle strictly for business use. I already log my miles for business use of a personal vehicle.
Farmerguy
The advantage could be 179 depreciation, accelerated depreciation, and/or higher deduction than standard mileage rate for business use. Writing off 75% immediately of a new truck is a nice benefit in my farming world especially if keeping it 10 years like you would. Consult their tax advice.
I avoid city shopping or park at the end of lots so you’re different situation.
ross
My ram 1500 rides nicer than my Highlander. We’ve found it to be more family friendly for us, luggage can go in totes in the back. I wish we had gotten a minivan instead of the Highlander, it’s nice but the van would have more space.
fred
I use my 6-year-old F-150 super crew cab only when I need it. It’s fine as a third car – but would never want it as my only or primary vehicle. Maybe that’s my old eyes and reflexes talking – but it’s fine at the lumber yard – not so good for going out to eat. Then too the $5k per year loss in value is sort of sobering. But that’s true about most new cars – where driving one off the dealer’s lot sort of immediately costs you big money – and it seems that when you buy all the bells and whistles the devaluation curve is steeper. In the era when I was raising a family, station wagons were all the rage. I had big ones from Oldsmobile and Buick. Looking back, they were practical. But they had their downsides – particularly when you were fishtailing in snow or when the needed repair (too often to countenance). Two of my prospective heirs have Honda CRV’s and must like them since they’re staid with that model through a few iterations – but their families may be smaller than yours.
Jared
That’s what I was thinking too. Don’t drive a big truck just because you can, it’s too much hassle – and maintenance can be a bear.
Along with the 2020 Outlander I mention above, I have a 2003 F150. It’s not worth what I’ve paid in maintenance over the past few years.
Mine’s the “7700” heavy-duty version, so just putting a new set of tires on it is painful. Tires wear out about the same if you’re driving 60,000kms in an SUV or a big pickup, but big pickup tires cost 3x as much – and that’s a theme that carries on through the rest of the vehicle. Everything is bigger and more expensive.
It’s also slower to drive, harder to park, more annoying to work on….
John Hemmendinger
I have a 2022 Highlander and I really like it. It has a V6 and a bench seat in the middle row. When I bought it they were very hard to get so I didn’t get the model that I wanted, an XLE, I had to settle for an LE. If I were buying today I think I would get the Hybrid and maybe the Grand Highlander. Other cars I looked at were the Honda Pilot and Subaru.
its_jake
toyota sienna awd. not what you asked for but i recently got one and it rules!
mike
We drove every 3rd row option on the market at one point while shopping back in 2019.
The VW atas was a fantastic ride, and had the most room of anything at the time. second row was huge, and 3rd row comfortably sat an adult.
We thought the Mazda CX9 interior punched way above its class, but the 3rd row is more of an after thought, emergency use only.
Mark. M
Like Koawaft said above, if you really don’t care about aesthetics then it’s a Sienna or Odyssey, case closed. But given your analytical mind I think it’s far more complex than that.
In our case (two elementary-aged kids, couldn’t stomach a minivan), we bought a 2012 Pilot EX-L in 2015, put 85k bulletproof miles on it in 8 years, then bought a 2022 Pilot Touring AWD (CPO from a dealer) in 2023 and it’s been similarly bulletproof. German brands do zero for me, having been burned by trying to maintain a BMW and a VW at different times in the past. I have a similar view as you concerning Chevy/GMC in terms of reliability so my short list will always be Toyota/Lexus or Honda/Acura. As for cargo, the Pilot holds a surprising amount inside, and for beach trips I throw a 24×60 carrier in the hitch and I’ve never felt like we’ve run out of room (and we take a LOT of stuff to the beach). Never used the roof rack b/c I hate the noise and loss of MPG, but that’s always an option.
Goodie
” German brands do zero for me” – 100% agree on that. I lived in Europe for a few years some 20 years ago. Owning a C series Mercedes could have made sense there. Opel and the French brands (Renault especially) made a lot more sense. They were designed to be affordably operated and maintained.
Here – almost anything with a German badge is some sort of status symbol, and the maintenance fees reflect that.
Another Bob
I have rented MiniVans for work trips. Convenient people and material movers. Not sure if they last 10 years tho. The Chrysler and Honda versions have a center stowaway feature for the seats. when you’re not using them it’s a great place to put gear.
If you can do without the third row what about that Honda pickup truck? I know it’s a pick up truck shaped vehicle on I believe minivan chassis?
I feel your pain. I’m definitely not looking forward to buying a new vehicle. I too try to keep my vehicles as long as possible 265K on a GMC half ton with basic maintenance and a door handle. The new ones are super expensive, lots more electronics to fail and gizmos I don’t need and don’t want to pay for. Progress I guess lol
TomD
I was really disappointed to learn that the Pacifica stows the seats where the battery goes on the hybrid, so you can’t get stow and go with the hybrid.
Though stowing the seats may be a bit less of an advantage than it seems depending on what the “family load” on the vehicle is.
Robert
Agree on minivans. If you are not using the off road features of a SUV (and surveys indicate most don’t), a minivan is a smarter buy for a soccer dad.
My other take away is it is so strange a major industry treats its customers so bad at so many points and yet survives. Seems it’s ripe for a disrupter to come in and steal frustrated consumers in mass.
Jacob M
When we decided to upgrade from my wife’s Corolla, we were looking at Acura and Lexus SUVs. The Lexus dealership left a very poor impression on us, so we stopped by the Acura dealership just to look and see what was available. We drove off in a used but very well maintained MDX. It’s been a wonderful vehicle to drive in every aspect – the only feature I want for is a heated steering wheel like my truck has. The Acura dealership nearest us gives us fantastic service, though besides the regular maintenance we’ve never needed to go back. My next car will probably be another Acura.
Could you consider a CPO MDX? Buying one a year or two older than new might offset the price of going with a higher trim model, and save a bit on depreciation.
JimM
We’ve owned two Acadias and one Buick Enclave (same car, different trim). All three were excellent but the Chevy and GMC dealers near us are not places you want to take your car in my opinion. That said, we liked the Enclave so much that we tried to buy another one but the dealer could never get delivery even though the car was already built and sitting a GM Detroit. Got tired of the dealer’s BS excuses and bought a Lincoln Aviator. Same size, same full three rows with large rear storage. Much more powerful engine, better electronics and much nicer ride. No regrets.
Beware of the models below the Aviator – made in China!
Nathan
No it’s not. Where do people get this on the internet? The Lincoln aviator is made in Chicago where the explorer is. As they are the same platform.
MtnRanch
Please re-read the post. The Aviator is made in the U.S. the lower models are made in China – it says so on the Monroney label (window sticker) on the vehicles.
Nathan
Not the ones sold here. Yes the Corsair is the edge and they stopped selling the edge here. But the US sold cousairs are assembled in Louisville KY. But yes because again internet twist the Chinese market ones and most asian market ones are made in China.
And yes like all car models there is a % of that car content from China. I can only think of 7 where that isn’t true and none of them are in the price range
Luis
only the Nautilus comes from China. The last generation came from Canada.
Every other Lincoln comes from either Chicago or Louisville
Jason
Unpopular opinion in my area: I won’t even consider an American brand vehicle at this point. Every one I’ve had (except the beaters I had in high school, lo these many years ago) have had way too many problems.
My favorite (and most reliable) vehicles have been Toyota and Nissan. In fact, our last 5 vehicles have been Nissans, and out in the driveway right now are 2 Nissans and 2 Scions (Toyota). We’ve already inquired about a new Nissan hybrid SUV that’s in the works.
BCarter
Check out the Pacifica Hybrid. Tons of room, very comfortable, qualifies for $7500 tax credit. I had one big issue, sunroof, but after a ton of back and forth it was repaired and I was compensated. Everything else I hated is dealer based. I’ve had mine for almost 4 years and we love it.
Mike+I
Have had one since 2018. Would buy another in a heartbeat. Only repairs have been for recall issues.
Late_Night
Minivans are banned in my house, 3rd row and midsized don’t go together. 4Runner / Land Cruiser / Sequoia all day long.
Jerry
My wife works in the office of a service shop, and when we were vehicle shopping the head mechanic there told us that if we planned to keep the vehicle for a long time or a lot of miles (like the 10 years you mentioned) as a brand, Subaru is the one to beat in terms of long term reliability and what you get for what you spend. They also have a great reputation on bad roads.
He didn’t get into the specifics of model to model, some are better than others.
We didn’t need a 3rd row seat, so we got a Jeep Cherokee, with the middle engine (big inline 4) and towing package. This gave us the same transmission as you normally see in the Grand Cherokee, and he told us good choice, the Jeep Cherokees hold up very well, too. So far, the only breakdown in 160,000 miles was a torn CV boot.
Anyway, he said he was glad we got the towing package, he strongly recommends it on anything you buy, especially if it is AWD or 4WD. You get better cooling, a stronger transmission (or at least a better transmission cooler) and often a few other heavier duty components. He says more failures are due to too much heat than anything else, and even if you never tow, the extra engine and transmission cooling that comes with the towing package helps in long term reliability, even in stop and go traffic.
Another Bob
I definitely agree with the towing package option increasing reliability. I think that’s why a lot of the trucks and larger or more capable SUVs last so long. It could be also that they’re so heavy that they have to have a stronger transmission just to lug all that iron around. You hear all the time about those CVT transmissions failing in the smaller cars. Mini cooper I’m talking to you!
G G
Don’t forget to check out the VW Atlas. I’ve a friend who has one and loves, loves, loves it. Me, I’m in a 2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4×4. I know they have a bit of a rep, but mine has been nearly perfect. Only issue was the drinker’s side passenger power mirror became intermittent, replaced under warranty, and a couple of recalls, also warrantied. Oh, and one check engine light. Plugged in my DIY-er quality OBDII scanner and it identified a faulty EVAP relay under the hood. $25 via RockAuto and 15 minutes to install. Other than that, faultless. *Great* ride, great pickup (5.7l V8) and decent (for a pickup) mileage – 18.2 mpg overall lifetime. LOVE my large, lockable ‘Rambox’ storage boxes in the bedsides and I wouldn’t buy another vehicle without them or similar.
Eric
Minivan! Our 2015 Sienna isn’t perfect, but it’s a Toyota so it’s easy to fix. Example – a battery needs only a 10mm socket to replace, and takes roughly 5 minutes. You can reach your hand down to the headlights. You don’t need to remove any underbody covers to change the oil. Little things like that are appreciated when DIYing typical maintenance items.
If you want to tow anything, however, a minivan isn’t a great choice. We’ve added airbags to the rear springs to raise the ride height when carrying a full rack of bikes on the back, but pulling anything more than a small utility trailer or pop-up is out of the question.
Anton
If you want solid dependability, go with a Toyota Highlander Hybrid. It’s also hard to argue with 40 MPG, with the hybrid version. The Toyota safety sense also comes with the newer models, and includes adaptive cruise control, lane trace assist, etc.
Honda reliability is not what it used to be. I wouldn’t spend my money there.
Another Bob
40 MPG is nice! Especially since it’s not a diesel, the new emission standards have really crippled them, RIP VW turbo diesels. Only problem is I don’t see a battery pack lasting 10 years be it hybrid or pure electric. I would think the normal ICE would be more reliable?
Anton
I think the battery is warrantied for 150,000 miles or 10 years. There are Prius’ in use as taxis, that have 300,000 miles or more on the battery packs.
Brian
Even if you didn’t like the feel of the Lexus dealership, you should give the GX a look. Excellent fit and finish, super capable, and great service.
(Also, skip the new and buy two years used, no matter what you wind up with)
Mark. M
Man that’s the truth! 2-3 years is the sweet spot. We saved about 20% off new buying a 1 year old Pilot and almost 50% buying a 3-year old Sierra Denali. And what’s the downside? New car smell? No shade on anyone who buys new if that’s your thing, but I sure appreciate you taking the depreciation hit for me 🙂
Paul Hacker
Whatever you buy don’t buy anything with a CVT transmission .. Period
Drew M
It is getting hard to find NEW cars that don’t have CVTs. They’re seemingly putting them in everything they can.
Luis
CVTs are common on economy vehicles. But trucks and the segment Stuart is shopping for (mid to large 3rd row SUVs) are absent of CVTs except for the Subaru Ascent. Even Nissan dropped the CVT from the Pathfinder and put a ZF 9 speed instead (the same that Honda and Acura used up until recently)
Jason
Seriously, you need to be looking at minivans.
They tick all your boxes, have all the bells and whistles, are comfortable yet unpretentious, and cost tens of thousands of dollars less than the equivalently equipped SUV.
I’ve got the Pacifica Limited 2023 and am incredibly happy with it. Stow and Go seating is great – I just wish you could get it with the hybrid models.
Dogs, kids, lumber, 4×8 sheet goods, tools, strollers – it all just fits.
John
Reliability.
Comfort.
Utility.
Price.
Since you don’t care about aesthetics, that’s it.
Kyle
This is a bit of a more esoteric suggestion, but you could try Jalopnik’s WCSYB (What Car Should You Buy) advisory piece.
Gee
If you want something that drives like a car , has plenty of cargo space on demand, can handle 8 people with ease then check out the pacifica. Yes don’t laugh. I rented one and was surprised. You can stow those seats into the floor and fit a 4×8 on the floor and have approx 140sqft of storage and it’s protected being in the van from the weather and prying eyes with sticky fingers. I have used it several times driving from NJ to FLorida loaded to the top. I also am looking at an SUV and focused on the MDX, Pilot, ruled out the Mazda, and now that toyota is having problems ruling them out. I don’t need to go up to the Expedition, Yukon etc. Don’t know what your budget is but the landcruiser, GX460-470 are almost immortal, they can easily handle 10 year and 500k miles per my research.
Good luck with the search.
scott
You have lost your mind if you get near a chrsyler. At the 4 to 6 year mark they start with the weird stuff. We had a town and country which we traded in on the pacificia, which at 4 years had to go. I thought it was a jaguar it was in the shop so much.
PW
If you want something reliable, get a Toyota. If you want something with good mileage, get a hybrid. If you want the most practical 3 row vehicle (including for hauling items) get a minivan.
If you want a reliable, practical, 3 row hauler with good mileage get a Toyota hybrid minivan. Available with AWD.
If that’s not the answer, then you have other unspoken requirements you aren’t articulating 😉
Steve L
Second this. Toyota and Lexus win the reliability and longevity tests. They have enough body types and power train options to suit your requirements.
Time will tell if Kia earns a similar ranking. The Telluride and Carnival are top top rated in their categories.
OldDominionDIYer
I bought my first Mazda in 2017, the CX-9 Signature model, that 3 row SUV is a fantastic driver. The HUD is so nice and intuitive, the comfort on long drives is great. The power is impressive. I love the headlights that turn when you turn the steering wheel allowing better view where you are headed. The biggest drawback is the MAZDA Nav system is poor. But Android Auto fixes that. Good luck! My last new vehicle purchase was a truck (Tacoma) and I’m very happy with it, (also my first Toyota) it has the 360 degree camera and I love it!
Stuart
Before I asked about the CX90, the Mazda salesperson asked if I did my due diligence. A few minutes into the conversation, I asked about the adaptive headlights, and he looked confused and started talking about the rear biased AWD.
Might give it another look at a different dealership.
SuperCoupe
This will be an unpopular one, but we have a 22 Durango R/T, 5.7 V8, with 3 rows. Its more of station wagon than SUV and with the both rows of the back seats folded down it will hold a lot of stuff. It rides on the sporter side (which I like) but will cruise at 80+ all day and get around 22-24mpg and is fun to drive. It does have a lot electronic stuff that is not needed, but most cars today are that way. It is also easy to work on by modern cars standards. No reason to get the v6 because you can get better mpg in the real world and tow up 7,500 lbs with the v8, and if you want you can get a Hellcat version.
Saulac
AWD minivan. And that would narrow the options real quick to the only (?) and also the best option: Toyota Sienna.
Brandon
I have an Edge ST that has given me zero issues, only regular maintenance performed. It has been reliable and very comfortable on long drives throughout the Midwest. I went with the Edge because I didn’t need a third row, yet I have a good amount of cabin room to haul, even with the seats up, and towing capability of 3,500 lbs; the extra power from the ST is a definite plus. For its size it moves quickly (can be easily tuned to 400+ HP), but driven sensibly, you can still return high 20s to low 30s for mileage. The technology in the drivetrain of this car is unlike many out there, but the downside is that it makes owning the car a potential maintenance nightmare if ignored (but you don’t seem like the type to ignore maintenance). Maintaining the transmission, center differential, and rear differential is crucial but maintenance is key for any vehicle anyways. I like how the ST is front wheel drive until it senses the need for AWD but leaves you the option to keep it in AWD. The other trim models have a lot of the same features (not all) the ST and Titanium have, it really just depends on how much your budget is. Anyone I’ve spoken to about their Edge said positive remarks about their car. It is unfortunate that Ford stopped making the Edge a few months ago.
Jared
My mom has a 2016 Edge – it’s been great to her, with one exception: the door seals.
There was a recall that covered several years addressing that issue, but hers was exempted. However, she had the exact same problem the recall describes where debris is kicked up with the wheels and compromises the seal, then rocks and dirt accumulate there and cause rust.
The fix is these little deflecting tabs and new seals.
Otherwise though, that seems like a great SUV. It’s extremely stable on the highway, it has a tough traditional transmission, a healthy-sized naturally aspirated V6 with good reliability. That’s the FWD SEL though, not the ST.
I would drive one of those.
Jaime
I agree that shopping for vehicles is daunting unless you keep yourself informed.
The Pilot and the MDX are on the same platform. The MDX does have a slightly different front suspension that affects its geometry and hence the handling. The engines are essentially the same. The AWD system is also the same hardware, however they are tuned differently. The Honda system is considered class leading. If the price point allows it, the Acura will give the best ownership experience however a Pilot in the Touring trim is every good as the entry level MDX.
The Toyota’s are nice however I just don’t get their packaging, I feel that they are in some ways dated. However they are true to their reputation as being solid vehicles… that just feel boring.
I agree with your Mazda assessment, nice but pass.
Have you looked at the Hyundai/Kia Palisades/Teluride pair? I was not a fan of the brands but I have to admit that in the past few years they have stepped up their game. I had been a Honda fan boy since my first new car at 18… 40 years later I bought a Kia… their offerings, pricing and value for the money is compelling. They had an issue with engines in the 2015-2020 range but you know what, Honda has had recent engine issues, so they are not immune either. Also Toyota has a huge engine recall as well.
I like the Pilot, they did a great job over all. The engine, transmission and AWD system is well sorted and proven. I think the Kia merits a visit. I like the Teluride, but the Honda is a better vehicle. However at the end get what calls to you. You will be driving it for a while.
Larry
I’m surprised the Kia Telluride hasn’t been mentioned. It’s win a number of 10 Best and it looks great. Yes Kia/Hyundai’s four cylinder engines have issues (I have one that’s been reliable) but I think the 6 cylinders are okay.
A smart move is to buy an off lease CPO and let someone else take the depreciation.
Old Suburban Dad
+1 for savagegeese being a great youtube channel for reviews. they love the Pilot and the MDX
I was shopping both in 2023 and couldn’t justify the added expense of the MDX for the performance difference that I will rarely, if ever, feel . My 2023 Pilot Elite is not a super inspiring ride, but it is smooth, quiet and eats up highways miles like I eat jalapeno potato chips. I am glad I bought it and would buy it again.
Fast forward to this past summer, and I was tired of our Odyssey and bought a 2024 Outback Wilderness. I LOVE this thing. handles better than the pilot, the turbo boxer is way punchier than I expected. It is fun to drive (in middle-aged suburban dad with 3 young kids terms). I never thought I would gush about something like this, but the Outback’s seats are REALLY comfortable , not cushy, but like ‘orthodoc-would-approve’ comfortable. While I was shopping it, I had an Acura dealer offer a Type S Advanced MDX at $15k below sticker. Very tempting, but still more capital expense than I could justify… Point is, if there are any still out there with the track pad (not touch screen) there may be deals to find.
I have a strong bias toward Honda, Acura and Subaru, but I have also heard great things about the Highlander, the new Land Cruiser and the new GX. The Grand Highlander has a ton of space but some worry about it’s powerplant and say that the third row feels so floaty when driving that back passengers will easily get sick.
Jason. W
I’ve been making Subaru’s for the last 8 years. i firmly stand behind them as a company and product.
i do feel the Ascent is over priced for what it is. but a outback is a fantastic vehicle. i personally drive a crosstrek (but i think its to small for what your wanting) and have had zero issues with it. its a very solid crossover.
Dave Schwartz
Why are you excluding the best-selling car in Norway/Denmark/Sweden/Europe/China? Google any one of those (or all).
It handles cold weather driving well (Norway!), is efficient, low maintenance, has incredible safety ratings, great performance, great comfort, is cheap to run, and best of all is American made?
Actually go drive a Model Y! (Available in AWD and with a 3rd row.)
Don’t let superstition keep you from the best car for the job. Do the research…
MM
I can’t speak for Stuart, but I used to live in Denmark, and I have family there still. There is so much government muckery in the car business that I wouldn’t draw any meaningful conclusion between sales data and customer satisfaction. The government pushes electric cars hard to meet political goals and the tax structure heavily favors electric cars. I assume the same thing is true in at least some other places in Europe, especially Norway and Sweden. It is not surprising that people buy a lot of Teslas in places where gasoline cars are slapped with sky-high taxes, or where the alternative is highly unreliable, like China’s domestic EV brands.
Now that said, I totally agree with your recommendation: do the research, don’t rely on what other people say or do. Everyone’s car needs are different.
John
Although it doesn’t check all the boxes, you might want to consider a gently used 5th gen Toyota 4Runner with a “J” VIN. I believe the SR5 Premium is one of the trim levels that is assembled in Japan. Several mechanics we know claim that this particular 4.0 liter V6 engine will last 400,000 miles if maintained properly.
Luis
Every 4Runner has been made in Japan, even the brand new 6 gens. No worries there
Rich
I have a 2014 long wheelbase Transit Connect Platinumwhich has three row seating and the seats fold down to a flat floor. Trailer tow is lighter than I expected (1500 pounds).
The vehicle has been extremely reliable. It is comfortable, gives good fuel economy (28 mpg overall), and rides well. When it’s time to replace this, I will get another for sure
Dave
My wife does a good bit of research before pulling the trigger on anything and she just got a Lexus TX350 Premium. its comfy and has the 3 rows. tons of features. I don’t like all the monitoring it has, but she’s fine with it.
I have a Honda Ridgeline and while a touch cramped, the 4 people in my family are in it all the time and its really comfy.
Tom
My two cents. Avoid the Honda Pilots at all costs. Absolutely the worst vehicle I have ever owned was a 2017 Honda Pilot Elite. The V6 transmission is plagued with issues. Fuel injectors went out at 67k miles had to pay out of pocket then 2 years latter Honda stepped up and fessed up it was their issue. Other issues window switches, then master control for window failed, Honda installed car alarm failed, and finally at 160k miles the catalytic converters failed. I have never towed a car so many times to my mechanic and to the dealer as I did that Honda Pilot. Never will I buy another V6 Honda anything. Just my two cents and personal experience.
Flurb
So what. Most Hondas (and Toyotas – all the legendarily reliable ones, in fact) used belts. On the pilot, it is pretty accessible. It is a non issue.
William
Great post. Im shopping for the exact same car. Need a three row. Don’t care about the look. Just want comfort and size to haul when necessary.
The jeeps are on super sale. Its my only comment to you. Check out Mark Dodge in La. for good pricing. I have a new 24′ model for a great price optioned out. Still have not pulled the trigger, but about to.
Cheers!
eddiesky
Seems the MDX is the fit for you. You aren’t getting younger and you appreciate comfort and reliability. Since its basically premium Honda, you also get parts and service that is touch better than Honda at Acura.
Toyota is reliable but the bar keeps getting lower with global assembly and more and more models.
You didn’t mention about mileage. You considered a truck but want the maneuverability to park, shop, local runs.
I have a Mazda CX5 that wasn’t my primary until I sold my F250 (NJ+RUST=metal flakes down the turnpike…and not trusting for a ride on the Turnpike which was just to IKEA). Now, the CX5 is bit long in tooth but I want a truck AND comfy ute/suv. So I’ll keep the Mazda CX5, get another F250, but then, the CX5 when its time, will replace with Volvo because safety and comfort. Lexus not enough leg/arm room to driver (I’m tall). I thought about a Yukon but they went ugly. I do like the Ford Explorer but not keen on the quality lately. Then there is the KIA Telluride. But I would like a hybrid.
Good Luck. I think the Acura might be your best bet.
Charles
I have a 2025 pilot the same color as above. Nice vehicle, cruises down the highway like butter. If you push it over 70 you see the mileage start to drop. You should by able to get 6% or more off msrp.
Dmitriy
I have a 23 MDX. The drive is nice but the tech is glitchy as heck. Once you hook car play forget it. it’s a different card and everything is sluggish and annoying.
Interior is odd too in my trim. Seats are half fabric. For the “racing” feel.
Maintenance minder are weird too. Change diff fluid at 12k?? WTF.
Brake fluid replacement at 15K common.
Had a BMW before and it had none of these annoying things.
Matt
I would look at the Durango or Grand Cherokee. The Durango has been around so long they *should have the bugs worked out, but it’s stellantis so maybe not. If not for the parent company I think these would be an easy choice.
If the Pilot was too big and the third row isn’t an absolute must-have, try the Passport.
While they would have to really be world beaters to get me to buy one, everyone I know with the new Hyundai/Kia larger suvs loves them, and the reviews are great.
The MDX might just be the right answer. Used market is tough right now but I’ve seen them CPO if cost is a concern. Consider that some (and I think the Acura is one) may require premium fuel.
I’d recommend some larger or more truck based SUVs but that doesn’t seem to be what you are after.
Leo
My wife and I are in the same situation. I have done some research on all available 3-row SUVs and have narrowed it down to two options: the Mazda CX-90 and the Nissan Pathfinder (2022+ models).
CX-90:
PROs: Stylish, Suspension is very plush, Multiple trims/options to fit your needs, Mazda usually has 0% apr for 60 months on these
CONs: No AWD option, the engine feels underpowered (unless you get the inline 6), still pretty new to the market (Mazda is still ironing out issues), and the interior is pretty simple and feels cheap.
Pathfinder (2022+):
PROs: Affordable (No Toyota tax), Powerful V6 (all trims, naturally aspirated), AWD is available, Nice Styling, Interior has a premium feel and comfortable ( on SL and Platinum), Class-Leading towing ( I believe), No CVT (shares same 9-speed auto as the Honda Pilot), Nissan has a killer CPO warranty.
CONs: Nissan’s future seems uncertain atm, Depreciation (dang CVT’s), Infotainment is outdated
We are going to get a Pathfinder soon (if you cannot tell).
Hopefully this helps.
MPech
Someone mentioned to avoid Hyundai or Kia. I have the opposite experience. I had SantaFe V6 for 15 years and put 200k on it with only one recall due to head gasket leaking. We had two (still have one) Subaru Outbacks H6 3.5 and there were quite a few problems with oil leaking from both. I looked at Ascent, Pilot, Teluride, but ended up with Hyndai Palisade 2022. It is a naturally aspirated V6, same engine as in Teluride, but different software control. I have a utilitarian approach to cars and I needed something bigger for hauling stuff and kids but comfortable for long drives. I got lower trim model with packages to get second row bench, not captain chairs. They did a really good job with the interior, keeping a lot of dials and buttons. They removed the shifting lever, which opened up a space to make a big “bucket” space in central console with sliding top. That turned out to be great design. All driving control features are available next to your right hand. Their driving assists features and warning are surprisingly unobtrusive and things work very well for me. Adaptive cruise control is also well done. The true gas mileage in 3 years is 19.5 mpg with combination of driving around town, moderate amount of 4 hour drives, and some very long trips. For me the ride in Palisade is quite a bit more comfortable than in our Outback. No issues so far.
Rick
Try a KIA Telluride or Hyundai Palisade.
James
Lots of good learning here. We love our
James
Oops. Too many comments for me to read them all, but our VW Tiguan is awesome (2nd one) and no issues with great handling in the snow etc. once the kids are a bit bigger my wife has her eyes on the Atlas. I have no idea about specs but I didn’t see this mentioned in the first 50 comments and feel it’s worth a look, if brief. Never had a VW before but both of our Tiguans have been excellent.
My daily driver is a Crew Cab Sprinter and they do make them with extra rows of seating 😉 can’t recommend it enough but probably a little large for your purpose..
Dave
The wife has a 2022 Tiguan. If you’ve never driven a better driving vehicle then I can see where people think its acceptable, but to me and my money, I think there’s better options. It hesitates and jerks quite a bit especially during the warmup tune, they still haven’t fully fixed that. Hard to drive it smooth, the throttle is like on/off. Seating position is lower like a car, other SUV options sit higher up. Better options for the 40 grand (if you buy new, a decent spec with some options) IMO.
Greg
Non-serious answer (due to price), look into the Ineos Grenadier.
Serious answer, I went from a Dodge Durango to Toyota 4runner in 2019, and I’ve been quite happy with it on multiple levels. I know you said you’d prefer a bigger engine, and I certainly do miss that at times, but support for the vehicle wise, Toyota service is miles ahead of experiences I had going through Dodge dealerships for service. I’m not sure if it’s much of an argument focusing on the maintenance side of things, but given the number of comments you’ve received, everything else has already been said.
Mike+I
+1 on the minivan or the Volvo.
Buick, most unreliable car I’ve ever owned and that includes British, Italian, and French cars. Engine, transmission, suspension, electrical, every bit of it was junk.
PB
Wife got an MDX, they have one of the highest % of American parts of any vehicle you can buy.
Ours came with a presoaked carpet because the factory forgot to connect the drain tube from the panoramic sunroof. Luckily it doesn’t rain much where we live. The entertainment system needed to have every optical cable replace. Had a weird friction / wear mark from on one of the door panels from the factory. Had an I’ll fitting wheel well liner and two interior plastic trim parts that didn’t fit well either.
So not much different than most GMs I’ve had.
It is a nice vehicle though. They should have most the kinks out of it by the 25 MY.
If you really want one, you might be able to get a great deal via the Costco auto program. We got ours for the same price as a Pilot Platinum. And the MDX has much better noise isolation and suspension performance.
The Toyota/Lexus hybrids historically are better with fuel and reliability, but the crash safety is more important to me, and it can be very difficult to find a Toyota with the options you want can be very difficult. You don’t really get to choose your Toyota, it chooses you. The problem is a Toyota has never chosen me.
Also, to second a commenter above. The MDX is great, but a crew cab that we already have kinda helps too. And the space in that cab on a long drive usually overules even the smoother quieter ride of the MDX.
My favorite 3 row would be the GLE (used to be ML 350). But we have terrible luck with getting MBs to last long enough.
jeff robbins
Hoo boy…. Car dealers suck, and a bunch of the cars out there suck too. Many of the manufacturers have struck a faustian bargain and created things that are great for a few years and then bad things happen. I have heard of horror stories of Acadia steering racks, kia/hyundai engine sludge, and the new hybrid v-6 in the tundra going kablooey.
I think based on everything you are asking for AND with teenagers a minivan is hard to beat. Except when the kids realize how cool it really is and then take it from you. Last summer I did two long road trips, one in a tundra up to the TLH and we had a good 200 miles of gravel, and one from NJ to STL, in a Sienna. The Sienna is hands down the winner to eat miles. It has a long wheelbase, suprisingly good mileage, and is very planted. With either an antisway bar or helper springs in the rear, it is docile, but if you put your foot in it, it will hustle. It can tow enough (3500 lbs) and take a 2 inch hitch so you can haul 4-6 mountain bikes depending on the need. It also will gobble up stuff and gear like you would not believe. And with snow tires the front wheel drive van can get into plenty of places that some AWDs cant (non-subaru of course) We are on the way to 200K on the sienna, and it has been fluids, brakes and tires as far as maintainance. It is a transverse 6, so changing the spark plugs on our 2011 will be rough. The front 3 will take 20 minutes, the back 3, 2-4 hours… good luck with the search, and I think you should take a minivan on a weekend trip!
Stuart
They’re not teenagers yet – I’ve got a couple of years.
I’ve ruled out a mini van out of implicit bias, will still check it out this week.
Tomorrow I’ll be checking out the Kia Telluride.
JJ
Telluride all the way! Or if you want a minivan that looks like an SUV I guess there’s the Kia Carnival.
jeff robbins
I have found they grow really fast if you feed them, and if you don’t they get real whiny. Minivans are goofy, and it does take a special person to drive one, but, they also are a cheat code for not getting pulled over on the highway, and are crazy comfy. And they have cupholders. We have a minivan, pickup and teeny ev in our fleet, and the mini van is the weapon of choice for lots of miles. The only real complaints is fully loaded on very steep icy hills it can be a challenge, and it does not have the best approach and departure angles!
Bill
I too preferred a six to a turbo four but I’ve changed my mind. The VW-Porche-Audi two-liter turbo is an amazing engine. I have it in a VW Golf R and my wife’s is in an Audi A4. I know these vehicles are not what you’re looking for, but the EPA has forced other manufacturers to figure out this engine format.
I’ve had Mercedes in the past and they were very solid, trouble-free cars. Take a look at the Mercedes corporate Web site for pre-owned. These are frequently just off lease with fewer than 12,000 miles and a full factory warranty. It could solve the $35,000 problem.
Josh
CPO/lease returns at 1.9% are outstanding deals!
TonyT
My E320 is at 264000 miles and still going strong mechanically. But the maintenance, even at a good shop, still isn’t cheap.
The GLB does have three rows, but I don’t think it’s the right fit for Toolguyd. For one, at least when it first come out, I saw too many owners reporting problems.
Andrew
Some of my points might be repeated since there are so many posts already, and I haven’t read them all.
I rented an XC90 before, and they are super comfortable. Aside from comfort, Volvo’s still are truly the safest cars on the road. This crash test result is insane:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP99IdntvZA
An actual insane crash:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Volvo/comments/1en3blh/a_volvo_xc90_got_sandwiched_driver_is_rescued/
That being said, Volvo’s are less reliable quality wise, and their repairs are expensive like any European luxury model. SO I wouldn’t get one without an extended warranty, which adds significant cost on an already expensive vehicle.
That being said, it seems there are really no bulletproof reliability cars anymore, but some are definitely better than others.
Honda/Acura – The brand reputation speaks for itself with reliability, but with everything having a turbocharged 4-cylinder in it these days, I wouldn’t trust longevity as much without doing oil changes every 5k miles, vs the recommended 10k. Also, you can buy bulk extended warranties directly from a Honda dealership for barely over $1100. I have a CRV I bought new with an 8 year 120k mile warranty I bought from another dealer for less than $1200. That’s insane coverage, and is worth a transmission, AC, or engine repair any day.
Nissan Armada was nicer when you could fit a full piece of plywood in the back, but the redesign of the mid 2010’s made that impossible.
Toyota has great reliability, but their IIHS safety ratings have sucked for just about all their trucks and suv’s (Highlander, 4runner, tacoma, tundra) when compared to competitors. I haven’t checked recently, but there’s a good 10 years of crappy test ratings vs the competitors.
Nissan Trucks are the closes things to bargain trucks. The Titan and Frontier are never at the top of the class, but because of that they’re the best reasonably priced and reliable truck alternatives.
The Ridgeline is nice in that it’s more car like than the competitors, and the truck bed features are really nice too, especially since there’s no wheel hump, and the extra hidden storage, and the tailgate opens two ways. I wouldn’t buy it without an extended warranty, though, as some past models have transmission issues from what I’ve read.
In the end that info would push me to Honda/Acura for the wallet exposure, especially the “cheap” extended warranties that go out to 8y/120k.
The unlimited cash option would push me to a truck or XC90 because of the utility, and extreme safety of the XC90
Michael V.
1. Having read what YOU liked. I say get the Acura MDX. New or Used.
2. Honda’s secret sauce IS the dealership. If they have a good rep. go with them. Honda Corp. watches dealers like a hawk.
3. My family has bought Hondas for decades and if you take care of them they will last.
4. Boring styling and some poor seats in Honda, doubt on MDXs though.
5. Get over guilt of MDX being nice. Knipex over Craftsman and yeah worth it!
Stuart
The problem is I *think* I know what I like. Car shopping really leads to info overload.
I spent some time researching the Kia Telluride today. Things were looking optimistic until I read too many reports on how it burns through oil, and how Kia considers less than 1 quart per 1K miles to be acceptable. There were a concerning number of instances of owners saying they were brushed off by Kia.
I can check my oil with every fill-up, but I don’t want to.
Josh
Depending on piston skirt length and oil weight it could be normal consumption.
Stuart
The complaints I’ve seen are that the engine burns through until it’s near dry.
I’ll still check it out. Could have been something that affected early model years.
Nathan
Every maker at one point will toss out that number. Ford gm Toyota Subaru
Oh speaking of Subaru if your using that 0-16 or 0-20 motor oil swap to 5-20 if you plan on keeping it out of warranty. I’ve seen 3 eat parts right after warranty and there is a lawsuit if I recall
Plain+grainy
I would suggest to lease a 4 door Chevy truck. A 6ft box would be more parking friendly than an 8’. 4 wheel drive also a plus.
ElectroAtletico
Don’t listen to all those goobers. Chrysler is in deep doodoo. Their slashing prices. Get a basic Pacifica, drip the seats flat, and you have an amazing cargo hauler for $35,000!
Josh
I know this is gonna be a hot take but look at a Porsche cayenne turbo (certified pre owned) on my second one. The only caveat is I’m not sure when they started the 3rd row. You could look at the Audi or VW variant though.
Outstanding service at the dealer
Biggest issue in 2 cars and 100k miles was a vacuum pump, cost 800 and a week and a half at the dealer but I had a loaner so no biggy.
Even oil changes you get a loaner or better yet if you dont need it they will pick up and drop off from your house.
Now let’s get to the car
Tons of power
Smooth quiet ride, better than anything I’ve ever been in except 7 and 8 series or the A/S8 Audis
Gets better mileage than you think
24-25 on the highway 18-20 around town
It tows 8000 lbs
Lockers
Hill descend
“Disconnect-able” sway bars
Air ride with selectable heights
I paid 45k for mine with a 3 year unlimited mileage warranty in 2021
Between my first and second one was about a 4 year gap.
Stuart
I’d have to add so many ads and sponsorships that ToolGuyd would look like a NASCAR car.
Josh
Looking at msrp on ChatGPT Honda starts at 40k and goes to 54k and the Acura goes 50-74k
I paid less for my Certified pre owned Porsche.
I think people sleep on certified pre owned. Let someone else take the hit, in the German car world that is sometimes 50-70k off a 3 year old car!!!
Any thoughts on the ridgeline? Obviously no 3rd row I had a 2014 that I drove for work.
Any thoughts on a Lexus? Parents have had a few GX470’s. They have loved them. They have a nice 3rd row and the way the rear door opens is nice.
I love cars I’m 44 and have owned 37 cars!
Stuart
I’m a bit younger than you, and only on my 3rd car in 20 years. My wife’s on her 2nd.
Ridgeline 2nd row looks too cramped.
Lexus requires a bump-up in budget that I’m not comfortable with yet.
Josh
I wonder how much changed on the new body style of the ridgeline? My 2014 was one of the most soacious rugs we had. We joked it was like an optical illusion.
I’ve been lucky with work when it comes to them letting me pick company rigs every couple of years.
vans are great too, I love vans we have had everything from Sprinters (2 generations) to vanagons. Right now my third car is a 1997 Toyota hiace! Little 3.0 diesel, seats 11 can almost stand up in but it fits in the garage.
My wife drives a model Y and she has already said her next car will be the same if anything were to ever happen to this one. 3rd row version exists the back row is really tight so not sure it could work but depending on your state you could be looking at 12k off sticker price and Tesla keeps sending emails out about 1.9 or 2.9% financing, I’d have to find an old email to be sure.
We have 65k miles on ours and it’s been basically trouble free. And maintenance free except cabin air filters and wipers.
If you are a car guy maybe electric isn’t for you but if a car is just a vehicle that you need to do X y and Z then it could be perfect.
James
Hey i was looking for a third row suv a couple of years ago. I kept going back to the VW Atlas. I love the space and make sure u get bucket seats for the middle row on what ever u get. Make sure u get a hitch so u can haul a trailer. I got a 5×8 trailer that i use to grab wood or large items.
Ty
We drive a 2016 Pilot. In terms of reliability and build quality, I wouldn’t put it in the same rock-solid category as Toyota. Had some weird engine sensor issues within the first 2 years and the interior build quality has always had issues with panels coming off from simply shutting doors and tailgate. On our model there is a known issue with the transmission that we may eventually have to address. If we hadn’t bought the first year of a brand-new redesign I think these issues would have been worked out.
For what it’s worth, the vehicle hasn’t had any MAJOR issues and we also tow a pop-up camper (around 3,500 lbs) for multiple trips a year and it’s a surprisingly capable tow vehicle as I barely feel the load when driving. When we bought it, we had our hearts set on Toyota, but the price/value on the Pilot was too good to pass up and we’re still glad we saved the money.
Flurb
Lots of complaints about that transmission, but it wasn’t a Honda Transmission (was from ZF). It is unrelated to the current Transmission used by the pilot (and odyssey, MDX)
JJ
Kia Telluride is a great 3-row SUV. Highly rated by magazines and Consumer Reports. The highest trim level has 360 cameras and approaches luxury brands for interior comfort. I never thought I’d own a Kia but their reliability has come a long way.
Hyundai Palisade is almost identical with slightly different styling.
Richard
How do you haul plywood or other 4×8 goods? I’ve got a Kia Sorento plug-in hybrid which I love, but I can’t fit a sheet in it. You mentioned U-Haul. Do you get a trailer every time for plywood? I once did the “rent a truck” from home depot and it was awful. Price was fine but you couldn’t reserve ahead of time. Just show up and wait. I had one day free and so I waited and waited. I’ve not sought to repeat the experience.
Stuart
I haven’t rented a U-haul or box truck for a while. I remind myself that it’s an option. There are a couple of rental places near me, and so I’m not too concerned.
I don’t work with a lot of plywood. Usually for smaller projects these days, I’ll have them a sheet cut down to 24×48 size at the home center. I can probably fit in a half sheet or thereabouts.
2x lumber spans from cargo bay to the center console, and I secure it with a moving blanket.
I ask the lumber yard to cut down hardwood to 5′ or 6′ lengths and I fold down a seat in the second row. They’ll deliver baltic birch (60″ x 60) or other supplies on $200+ orders for a price that’s worth saving myself the hassle. I want to replace some interior doors in the spring. Those should fit. If not, I’ll have them delivered.
I have crammed my folded-down 2nd and 3rd rows to capacity quite a bit. I’ve slowly been learning that I don’t need to transport everything myself.
Aaron
The grand highlander iihs saftey rating should go up now that they recalled it to fix the issue with the airbag
Josh
I was in your situation a years ago. Went from same year GMC Acadia and ultimately decided on the MDX. The ride quality and features are amazing and worth it. I recommend a minimum of the Tech trim level and if you can get the Advanced trim(360 cam and heated steering wheel). AWD (called sh awd) is the best i have ever used for grip. Only complaints are as you mentioned, MPG and how you have to get the higher trim to get all the feature.
Stuart
Thanks! That’s the level I test drove. I’d want to go up to at least A-Spec to get fog lights. I’m not in love with the aesthetics of the Advance (HUD, roof rails, heated wheel), and all of a sudden we’re now at A Spec Advance, the highest trim level before jumping to S-Type.
Acura also recommends premium/91 octane. From what I’ve read, regular/87 can be used, but mileage suffers.
I priced out OEM trailer hitches with installation. Ouch.
There’s a $12K to $15K difference between comparable features levels. Am I ready for something nicer? Or is going to hurt more when I get in with sandy feet, muddy boots, or someone gets carsick (happened once)?
Really my biggest concern is with reviews saying the Pilot has less responsive brakes when loaded up. Road noise and comfort are important priorities as well. I suppose additional test drives will determine if I spend the difference now or save it for the next car.
Josh
There are debates about fuel on the MDX groups. I would say 60-70% seem to use 93 octane and the rest use regular 87. I keep track of my MPG and honestly it is about the same but ultimately, I ended up with just putting in 93.
If you just need the OEM hitch for light hauling that is a simple install with 6 bolts and lower the spare tire. Wiring harness for trailer is more involved but can be done. If you are wanting full intercooler max towing, then yeah, I would have dealer do that. That is another miss by Acura why that is not a factory option.
Nathan
If you haven’t driven a full size truck in a while the f150, Silverado 1500 and ram 1500 will surprise you. They even started putting rear coil spring on some. Since they make their luxobarges out of the chassis too
Expedition/navigator etc.
Bruce
There is only one vehicle to purchase that is a Toyota. Last two vehicles have been Toyota and have been reliable.
Joe H
It may be a little older than you want but how about a used Honda Element? Even if you may need to replace parts, the Element worth putting money into and the cargo area is an engineering marvel having been featured in engineering magazines. Otherwise would a Ford Maverick be too cramped in the rear seats for the kids?
Stuart
Ridgeline looks too cramped, and so I assume the same is true for the Maverick. All compact pickups have lower IIHS safety ratings.
Frank D
Skip American, Hyundai & Kia …
Personally, for ultimate family versatility, long distance travel plus way more DIY than I ever imagined, I have driven minivans.
Pickups are just horribly inefficient in fuel economy and unsafe. Same for the big full size SUVs.
Small three row suvs are too much of a compromise seating wise, for me, but I would look at the top Asian brands and European ones.
Personally, while I love our v6 from years past, I now have driven a 2l turbo gas and now a 2l td van and I smile ear to ear with the fuel economy, comfort and safety features … especially when people with big empty pickups, full size suvs, etc have to race past in the fast lane or race from one stop light to the next.
I have always hated the whole package upgrade system, where you need to step up several levels and pay for a whole bunch of stuff you don’t really want/need … like moon roofs …
Anyway. Just a few thoughts.
Chris I
Stuart –
My wife bought a ’23 MDX A-Spec. She wanted that neon blue color. There are some damn funky quirky things with it, and dude it’s smaller than an SUV should feel. Thank god she bought it without me.
Stuart
Quirky how? Smaller with respect to cargo? It looked a bit small, but the numbers are close and in some cases (behind 3rd row) better than the Acadia. To me it really felt like it drove smaller, which is what I really liked. The Pilot felt a lot bigger. I had to drive past a row of double parked cars and it felt like the Pilot was taking up the entire road.
patrick B
We have a 2016 MDX and 2021 Pilot EXL so not the same but similar to what your looking at. The MDX has a really slanted roof at the tale gate. If you load anything tall in it you need to have it inside the back by around 12″ this really lowers the practical load you can put in it. Actually gets really small when you try to load it up. The opening in the back is not very big because of the slant on the roof. I did not see this when we bought it but it makes it a pain when we try and load it up. The MDX is lower with a lower ceiling which makes it feel smaller. The little cargo dip at the back of the Pilot is really nice for putting everyday groceries and purchases in and not have them slide all over, when you don’t need it make it flat. Mine both have the same motor, transmission, and awd. The MDX is way nicer to drive and it is much older with 90k more miles on it. It is more responsive and drives way nicer and smoother. The Pilot feels like such a dog. Interior is way quieter on the MDX. The fans in the Pilot are noisy even on low speed. Acura service is great but a little pricey might start taking the Honda there as I like them. Main thing I would double check the tale gate opening and realize what the size is because it is small for a mid sized SUV. Think about putting a bigger box in it. Makes it look much cooler and most SUVs have it now it but not as practical.
Stuart
Thanks! That’s a very good point. Looking at the side profile images, I can see exactly what you mean. It does look like there’d be greater chance of lift gate interference with the MDX than with the Pilot. Maybe it wouldn’t come into play everyday, but it does seem to be a potential frustration.
Chris I
Yep the tailgate angle is weird. As are the bumper sensors going off like when you’re in drive-thru lane. Also, can’t open the door gas cap unless you open the driver’s door (sometimes my wife will get out and pump so I get yelled at it’s not opening). Can’t permanently disable the Ignition Off feature. The adaptive cruise is bizarrely slow and dramatic. The wireless charge pad is wonky and inconsistent. The radio/GPS system restarts quite often, and does weird things with her Apple Play. Driver door window seal developed a heat bunch and so this slight whistle of air noise occurs at high speed RIGHT by the driver’s ear. Oh! And just wait until you attempt to change the oil filter.
I did add the OEM tow hitch myself though, so saved some bucks there (unless you need the trans cooler, then you’re stuck with dealership install only).
Stuart
Thank you!! Great to know. Some of those things do seem strange. All of those would bug me too. From what I read, most cars can’t disable auto start/stop unless you’re in a sport mode or similar.
I’ve been doing even more research, and I’m shocked at what it takes to get key fob remote start as standard across different brands.
I checked out installation instructions for the Pilot. It looks like the entire bumper has to be removed. I’m not worried about the work, but the potential for the work to lead to warranty coverage arguments in the future. On higher trims there are more components needed such as to reposition the hands-free liftgate sensor. That’d encourage me to go for dealer install at time of purchase, or DIY install the day after the bumper to bumper coverage ended. Not sure I can wait that long.
The MDX install is a little more involved, but also doable.
I also checked out trailer hitch installation for smaller vehicles, and for some smaller models you just lay down and bolt it on.
Chris I
OMG yes, I knew I was forgetting some stuff. They key fob remote start…..costs extra?! On a $65,000 SUV? In 2023?! Oh but wait, she can start it from her smartphone Acura app…..but that costs extra?!? Because I need to remote start my car when I’m on a different continent? And I’m unable to start it since I don’t have her phone? The more I drive that irritating Asian car the more I love getting in my F150.
Just Youtube “Acura MDX oil change”. You’ll throw your laptop across the room.
F
I don’t envy you. Buying a car is a big decision. None of the cars today are very good in my opinion. But I wish you good luck and hope you come up with the right vehicle for you and your family.
Ray
I didn’t read but a few comments, I mean what’s the point, it’s like asking what’s the best oil. Everyone will have their opinion that…well you know. Here’s my advice, I had a Suburban that I really liked, but any cargo is inside with you (worst case when I moved some bee hives).
I have my favorite truck but who carers what I like. Pickups now have four doors and good room for family with cargo in the bed. You can put a shell or tonneau to keep the bed covered and secured. Cargo is back there family is in here.
Plain+grainy
I think Stuart should at least test drive a Chevy 4 door truck. Even though it’s not what he wants. At least it will give him a perspective of the current models.Drive a little further to try a different dealership, one that he can trust.
Plain+grainy
I would also take the wife on the test drive. Let her ride in the front & back seat, then let her drive it.
Bill K
Another minivan point of view………
Three years ago, I was struggling with vehicle choice, for going scuba diving and carrying all my associated tanks and gear, with added space to also sleep inside. I struggled with the decision but ultimately bought a Honda Odyssey.
Pros and Cons:
– Rides really nice
– Doesn’t ever feel big driving around town or the highway, which was a pleasant finding
– Plenty of horsepower
– Has front wheel drive, and tracks we’ll in my Michigan snow
– Good visibility
– Easy to get in and out of, but the counter to that it doesn’t have a lot of road clearance
– The interior floor level is low which comes in handy for tail gating
– The third row seat folds flat for convenience; I’ve never used it
– Plenty of flexible floor space
– The Odyssey has completely met my hopes & expectations as a dive vehicle and just general travel when not diving
Dominic S.
Quit the subtle tactics and get a full size SUV, alternatively a minivan. Sequoia/Tahoe/Yukon/Expedition. You’ll rarely have the space you need in a midsize crossover SUV, especially with kids.
Nathan
Probably tired of my posting but cars are sort of my thing.
Hyandi and Kia and now Genesis are what I call 50 % cars. 50% of the people I know with one love it never broke awesome will buy another…..
The other 50%. Cars been in the shop multiple times, multiple warranty repairs out money in car rentals for weeks or it’s left them stranded in ….
Genesis at least does loaners so they act like Lexus and etc
So I tell people to avoid them
Nathan
Regardless it’s a difficult task these days and I also tell people cast a wide net. If your local dealers suck and it sounds like at least one of yours does. Nothing wrong with buying out of state.
Alexk
As a researcher, you really should take a Toyota minivan for a test drive. Even if you have a bias against them. To me, a vehicle is very personal. Not just something to go from A to B. If you can’t stand the idea of a minivan after test driving, then keep looking, but if you haven’t driven one, check it out. I loved my 2000 Odyssey and gave it to a friend until he finds a small car. Drive my 2004 Matrix ‘cause it’s stick shift, fun and a hatchback that can haul tools, and my 2002 Ranger ‘- 4wd for snow, hauling bulk and I’m not sure why, but it makes me so happy driving it that I keep feeding it at 17 mpg. But the minivan does it all. If I had found one with a stick shift, I wouldn’t have got the Matrix.
Dave P
Buy used. Pay cash.
Settle.
This means don’t get hung up on features; rather, buy what will work and provide the best VALUE.
If you’re living in a paid-off home with a retirement account well on it’s way to being fully/overfunded, have no consumer debt of any kind, and can pay cash, buy what you want. Otherwise, you can’t afford to do so.
“Settle” instead, as it’s what mature adults do.
Hon Cho
“Settle” instead, as it’s what mature adults do.
No, it’s what you do and while Stuart will “settle” on something when he makes his decision, used is not always the best economic decision, particularly with late model Honda and Toyota models.
Hepdog
We bought a 2022 MDX, which is the 1st year of the current bodystyle, new from the dealer. Our trim level is Touring A-Spec. This has the SH-AWD system as well as a blacked-out appearance package. Ours is black on black and gets compliments everywhere we go.
This is a fantastic vehicle! I highly recommend it. We put 10,000 miles on it on a SW USA roadtrip immediately after purchasing it and experienced -0- problems. The seats are comfortable, the sound system is fantastic, and it drives excellent.
Unlike the marquee luxury brands from europe, this car will remain reliable for the next decade and retain its value.
We have racked up around 37,000 miles on it in the intervenieng years, and still enjoy its comfot, style, and extremely low ownership cost. We have put 1 set of tires on it in addition to standard maintenance like oil/fluid/filter changes.
Thanks,
Hepdog
Sammy
Check out the Car Care Nut car reviews, on YouTube, by a Master Toyota mechanic. He reviews all car model types. Best reviews on YouTube.
2025 Toyota Crown Signia (Lexus like build quality)
https://youtu.be/Qx666pTESSs?feature=shared
2025 Mazda CX50 Hybrid (Toyota RAV4 GEN4 power train. )
https://youtu.be/OkM1JdN_qnA?feature=shared
Stuart
Thanks! That sent me down a path…
CX-50 Turbo seems nice (the Turbo models have higher-rated headlight performance).
We were all on the way to check out the Telluride, CX-50, and Pilot (again), but my wife’s car was rear-ended by a women driving her kid’s Wrangler. She said she couldn’t find the brake pedal…
Once everything’s patched up, maybe we’ll both take it for a test drive, although likely in non-Turbo or Hybrid models.
I’ve done more research, and there are complaints about every brand, every dealership, and every model I’ve been looking at.
eddiesky
Car Care Nut is about the most honest Toyota mechanic out there. If your are Ford based, FordTechMakuLoco is another Youtube mechanic specializing in Ford… and then there is SMA SouthMainAuto where Eric is just a funny Update NY Mechanic and dealing with rustbelt cars.
The CX50 I believe is smaller than the MDX but that is what I noticed when my CX-5 is next to it…lower roof line on the CX-50.
If you get hybrid, you realize only the Acura ZDX is eligible for tax rebate. No Toyota or Mazda. No Phev eligible on NJ’s site.
Stuart
The Mazda CX-50 is smaller.
The more I research, the bigger my headache grows.
My wife’s now in the auto shop (rear-ended last night on the way to check out cars), and she’s not completely hating the small SUV the rental place gave her.
So there might be the future option for something utilitarian (e.g. Pilot) and something smaller, lighter driving, and with better gas mileage.
Alexk
I hope no one got hurt.
Stuart
Thank you, we’re all okay, just upset.
James
Out of curiosity, what’s the record for comments on a post?
Stuart
We’re not quite there yet. This is at least one of the most-commented non-giveaway posts. Here’s the other that comes to mind: https://14cyiuhvcgv.com/craftsman-usa-hand-tool-history-2023/%3C/a%3E%3C/p%3E
There was also a high comment count when I did a similar post in 2016 – https://14cyiuhvcgv.com/researching-a-new-suv-is-kicking-my-butt/%3C/a%3E%3C/p%3E
fred
I’m not surprised about the number of comments. Lots of readers own cars and we all have opinions about the ones that we own or have owned. I suspect that most of our opinions are more anecdotal than of statistical significance. My first ride was a 1955 Chevy Bel Air – and I’ve bought lots of vehicles since for both family and business use – but my experience with brands/cars/dealerships had been so mixed as to make me hesitant to do much more that make a few general observations when anyone has asked me for a recommendation.
James
Your wisdom is seemingly bottomless Fred.
Andrew
That was essentially my take.
Everything is so much more expensive, and reliability has taken a hit on all brands, even though the original stalwarts still typically fare better. It seems design of main powertrain components aren’t as “buy it for life” as they used to be.
So you have car characteristics to consider, and then how much you’re willing to rely on the financial impact later on that has nothing to do with the car luxuries, at a much higher cost than was the norm pre-covid
KMR
What you really need to do… is just figure out what is best for you.
Everyone has an opinion and their own preferences, and that is why there are so many different make/model combinations on the market.
My individual preferences prioritize the driving experience above everything else for my daily driver. I just did 3000+ miles in the past 3 weeks in my ’23 Alfa Romeo Stelvio Quadrifoglio. I call it my all-weather, all purpose super car. It fills 96% of my needs while providing a driving experience and performance that once saw the Stelvio Quad hold the N’ring lap record for a production SUV.
BUT I’m also in a position to own other vehicles. Our ’15 GMC Sierra still does a few thousand miles a year doing heavy chore work. Hauling tree stumps to the town compost site, furniture hauling, classic car and large car parts hauling when they’re too big or dirty to put in the Alfa (although just had two Triumph TR3 rear fenders in the Stelvio yesterday).
Anyway, the point is, figure out what works for you. I almost never listen to other people’s preferences when it comes to vehicles, I know what I need, I know what I prefer, I know what I’m willing to pay for.
Jerad
I read your mid-size, 3-row, SUV request loud and clear. However, having owned a Pilot and an Odyssey, I’d take the Odyssey over the pilot. Everything the Pilot has, and then some on the flexibility of interior configuration and space. It lacks the AWD/4WD. I will say, the Odyssey plowed through everything and currently I own a Highlander, LX 470, and a Suburban. The LX 470 being the same as a Land Cruiser with a full-time 4WD system plows through everything as well. So to meet the AWD category, I’d say Sienna. For most, mini-vans aren’t cool enough but for so many mid-size SUVs, if you took the badges off could you really tell the difference if you’re not a car enthusiast?
Stuart
We have a lot of hills and inclines in the area – I wouldn’t buy anything without AWD anymore. My wife’s 2WD car struggles with the driveway. We upgraded the tires and it still takes either of us several tries to get it up the drive when there’s at least an inch of snow or so.
The Sienna’s IIHS rating wasn’t as good as some of my other picks. I can see the appeal though. I’d consider it more closely if it was a top safety+ pick.
Jack S
A vote for Odysseys. My wife and I retired in 2021 and the first thing we did was buy a new 2022 Odyssey Elite b/c of the creature comforts that model provides plus to transport the grandkids (seats are 2+2+3). The 3rd row seat is usually down which offers a ton of space for those moments “when needed” (e.g., vacations, building materials). To date, we’ve not regretted our purchase. Our son and his wife bought-in on the Honda brand and leased then purchased a Pilot Elite for the creature comforts and hauling kids. The one consistent problem they face is the lack of cargo space. It’s ok around town, but it’s seriously lacking space for the stuff a family takes (and returns with) while on vacation whether for a long weekend or the full week. However, it’s not so much of a problem that he would trade-in his Pilot for an Odyssey, but he has often thought about it when that extra space is needed.
My wife and I have owned Odysseys since 2006 and have no regret. There’s a 2004 sitting in my driveway.
In your case, perhaps consider a short term lease, then take the big plunge when you’ve settled on what works for you/your family.
mike pennington
Volvo xc90…you can make the 10 year goal with little trouble.
A W
I LOVE the IIHS for researching vehicular safety. In addition to crash test data, they also publish driver death rates by make and model and insurance losses by make and model.
Short answer: the MDX and the Pilot have solid real world safety stats. From a safety and reliability perspective I would cross shop the Volvo XC-90 and also the Toyota Sequoia.
Down the rabbit hole:
Per the IIHS, the average US vehicle has a demographically adjusted driver death rate of 38 fatalities per million registered vehicle years. (Lower score is better). Since the introduction of Electronic Stability Control, the safest vehicles by this metric have generally been SUVs and minivans. The latest data shows that the AWD Honda Pilot had a driver death rate of 13. The MDX had a score of 6, the XC-90 scored 4, and the second gen Sequoia (last time it was studied) had zero fatalities.
The IIHS also publishes insurance losses, and the payouts for Medpay and PIP roughly correlate to injury severity (hospital bills) for US accidents. In occupant injury scores, the safest vehicles tend to be those that are largest and tend to favor SUVs and pickups. These are weight adjusted by year with the average insurance payout scoring 0. Negative scores are better.
The Honda Pilot scores -4% (average) and -26% (better than average). The MDX scores -6% (average) and -32% (substantially better than average). The Volvo XC-90 scores -39% and -42% (both substantially better than average). The second gen Toyota Sequoia (2020-2022) scored -34% and -49% (both substantially better than average).
A W
Links:
https://www.iihs.org/ratings/driver-death-rates-by-make-and-model
https://www.iihs.org/topics/auto-insurance/insurance-losses-by-make-and-model
https://www.iihs.org/topics/vehicle-size-and-weight
Nathan
Our third row in the explorer is always down too. We occasionally use it. To be fair there are times I wished we had gotten the edge instead. But the cost was so close and etc.
Also don’t be afraid of factory twin turbo mills or the start stop systems. I haven’t seen you mention it but it’s become a lot more common place.
Nathan
Also needs to be said maybe. What you really need is to restomod a classic something. Like a 60s suburban with an ls2 and a 6l90e or even an 8l90e transmission and a updated i terior etc etc.
(I know if you’re like me you don’t have the time e to devote either)
Andrew
He’s brought up safety in other replies, so just about anything over 15 to 20 years old is out.
Andrew
Here’s something that no one has mentioned yet, which might save you money up front on a European vehicle, and also get you a European trip out of it.
I posted earlier about Honda’s and Volvo’s, but only Volvo will get you a trip to different European locations dependent on where you pick up your car.
https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/cars/t009-s001-5-european-auto-delivery-programs/index.html
European Auto delivery programs are a nice perk you don’t hear much about, and you save yourself the dealer delivery fee, as well as a nice discount off MSRP because you actually save the Auto MFR money by picking up the car yourself
JerrBear
If you want anything with a modern/up to date feeling infotainment system, then I’d recommend not going with any Subarus. It’s not that they’re bad, they just feel 10-15 years late to the party. Not to mention the screens in Subarus, even the top of the line models feel quite low resolution, clunky and slow to use. Their lousy mileage and poor NVH also make it difficult to recommend.
Charlie
Us minivan fans are always eager to have a fair shake at things. We’re sick of every minivan review article having to spend the first 200 words as a sort of disclaimer to the vehicle type. We’re jaded by hearing people say they need more interior space and then buying something with a 4ft hood before the interior even starts and massive cargo-eating wheel wells at the back. We’re tired of having the manufacturers pour all their effort into developing SUV’s and just a tiny bit into a shrinking number of van options. At this rate all we have is word-of-mouth, which only goes so far, and the astonishing take-rate for people who accidentally rented a minivan on a trip and made it their next choice. If you see me loading 4×8 sheets at the big box store parking lot just a little more slowly, it isn’t because they are hard to load but because, frankly, I’m showing off another awesome feature that few know about.
Stuart
I spent some time looking into minivans. The IIHS safety ratings aren’t very encouraging. When looking for reviews, I saw mention of how brands aren’t spending time advancing in this category due to low interest/sales, which also didn’t help.
Charlie
I actually never heard this angle before. Before buying my 2014 Sienna SE I checked and was shocked that that model year had zero driver deaths on record (didn’t think that was even possible). I’m actually more into active than passive safety, and my van is much more planted and with better stopping distance than a large SUV with the similar interior space. Acceleration/lateral/deceleration are negatively impacted by a higher CofG. The IIHS is always tweaking their tests so as they say “your mileage may vary”.
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/the-deadliest-and-least-deadly-cars
Stuart
Yes, but it’s a starting point, and one where standards are applied across vehicles.
I’ve been looking at the details and where deductions are made.
A W
Minivans tend to do well when looking at IIHS driver death rates, but only average when looking at injury rates.
3 row SUVS tend to score well in both categories.
Compared to SUVS and crossovers, the low frame and lower occupant height put them at a disadvantage in multi vehicle accidents or if pushed off the road into a ditch.
Mopar4wd
My wife has a Honda Pilot. Gets 20 mpg around town but does 26mpg on trips. We got it mainly because it drove well while being very big inside. It’s been good for us. No real mechincal issues. It’s not fun to drive but its good for what your looking for, We both perfrered the Durango for driving but they are a very old design at this point and kind of cramped inside. The new Nissan Pathfinder might be worth a look and if you are OK spending more the Sequioa is great but really bad gas mileage. Given what your looking for the Pilot and MDX make sense. For me I would be looking at a used lexus GX but thats not for everyone.
For You Tube reviews I have always liked Alex on Autos from way back in the day when he wrote for the Truth about cars back when it was still decent.
Chris M.
I hardly ever comment but figured I’d post to get the # of comments even higher for you Stuart, and since we own a 24′ Pilot TrailSport, I can give my 2 cents. Thankfully it’s not my daily driver, I like the look and the vehicle overall but I find the steering to be light and the suspension soft but that might have to do with the TrailSport trim and off-road tires. I’d probably look more into a Touring, Elite, or Black Edition trims and take them for a spin, but I do enjoy the look of the TrailSport. I enjoy that the engine is a V6 and not a 4cyl turbo engine. Gas mileage hasn’t been great 17mpg avg. so far, but my wife has a lead foot with mostly around town and city driving. A positive is it runs on regular gas which is nice with so many of those turbo engines requiring premium. So far 8-9k miles of trouble free driving. If you don’t need a 3rd row, the upcoming 26′ Honda Passport which is too be released soon looks really sharp too. Carguyd.com could be an interesting sister site, just saying…
Stuart
Thanks! I ruled out the TrailSport due to the wheel size and less so because of the suspension.
Still yoyoing between Pilot in one of the other higher trims, or the MDX. Convinced myself that the smaller CX-50 could be a good fit and that I could find a mini van or similar down the road if really needed. Downsides to the MDX are online complaints about rattling, the recommendation for premium gas, lower mpg, and cost.
The dealership I went to has tons of MDX’s in stock in all the trims I’d consider (and those I wouldn’t), and so maybe they’ll be more flexible on pricing. I’ll have to travel a bit to find different the Pilot combo I’m interested in, which also suggests lower discounts.
I’ve had new model years twice in a row. Definitely not interested in doing that again if I can help it.
CarGuyd… maybe, but there are enough people test driving new vehicles on YouTube and elsewhere. This is the type of product category where an initial walkaround might not require a lot of experience or insight, but in-depth analysis does.
Roman W.
Toyota (or Grand) Highlander. We have had our V6 Highlander Limited for 10 years, very few issues. Prices are still comparably reasonable.
Stuart
I briefly considered that a couple of times. Grand Highlanders are going to cost more and have a longer wait than I’m eager for. Local dealers added hefty option packages to “in production” models, suggesting there won’t be any discounts.
Price difference between well-equipped Pilot and Grand Highlander will be at least $10K, maybe even $15K.
Pablo
If you want a car for more than 10 years. You can only go with Toyota or Honda. My father is a mechanic. I have a 2000 Honda Odyssey 270K+ miles and a 2020 Toyota Sequoia 90K+. These brands may be more expensive, but if you divide the cost over the lifetime of the vehicle, then you realize their value. Hondas typically have timing belts that will cost you over $1000 to maintain at 100k miles. Toyotas have lower maintenance costs. Also consider Lexus and Acuras. They are more expensive, but consider the cost over lifetime. I would also highly recommend a minivan. I can fit a 4×8 sheet of plywood in mine, and they have lots of room for family trips.
Whatever you get I strongly recommend you change the oil after the first 1000 miles and then at every 5000. I know that they say to change it every 10k, but that’s nonsense. If you want your vehicle to last over 10+ years you need to change your oils (engine, transmission, differential)
Stuart
Thanks! I’ve been doing even more reading, and don’t see a lot of love for Acura dealerships. Lexus is too pricey for the features I’m looking for.
I’ve been convincing myself that rather than get the perfect car now, I can get what’s reasonably suitable and then upgrade sooner, maybe in 3-5 years.
I’ve been looking at modern features – things like reverse-tilt side mirrors – and realize I’ve definitely been missing out. I’m not quite ready for an EV, but the industry might change in meaningful ways in a few years.
eddiesky
Stu: you didn’t like the ride of the Pilot vs MDX but you know you can swap in B6 Bilsteins, right? Look into Honda forums for the Pilot owners.
I put Bilsteins on my truck and it was sooo much better for the first few years, compared to stock.
(I know most don’t like to mess with warranty vehicle, but do it now while the bolts aren’t crusty!)
Hepdog
re: oil change intervals; I had a 2008 Honda CRV with the 2.4l K-series motor. I bought it with 50,000 miles on it and put another 300,000 on it. I changed the oil with Mobile 1 full synthetic and a OEM Honda oil filter when the Honda dash-mounted indicator recommended, which is pretty much 10k miles.
I went through 1 starter, 3 sets of spark plugs, 1 radiator fan, 1 AC clutch, 2 AC clutch relays, 4 rear wheel bearings, and 2 windshields, and 3 accidents.
But I never had 1 issue with the engine – it still ran fantastic, didn’t smoke, and got the same 21mpg it always got at 350k miles.
-Hepdog
Nathan S
We had an 07 Acadia, and it was ok enough to consider another. They changed it to a shorter vehicle, which didn’t work for our family (4 children), so we test drove and bought a Buick Enclave back in 2018. Not trying to sell you on that particular vehicle, but several things stand out:
1) It’s a more comfortable ride. That’s important. It’s also been reliable and had good safety ratings. It sounds like you have test driven and done your research, but just don’t ignore your gut instincts on this.
2) I like features that I don’t have to worry about on maintenance or pay an additional subscription for, like Apple Carplay. I use that all the time. Also be careful of getting some things that complicate your vehicle and break down. We grew up on minivans (sounds like there’s a fan club of them here!), and I personally can’t buy one now, due to all the issues we had with sliding doors back in a day. PTSD or something, I guess. Therefore, it’s a complicating feature that does not work for me.
3) The 3 rows are spacious enough, and we can fit full sized suitcases in the back. We’ll see as my kids get older, but my 13 year old son still sits ok in the back, and he’s not short.
4) Fuel economy is ok on the highway. Expect 22-26mpg in non-hybrid, less in the city / stop-go. Hybrid can get you better mileage, sure, but there are more things that can break. Maybe someday….
5) I don’t care for the auto-stop feature (saves gas in the city? I wish I could turn it off), but we have 108k miles without any major or even many minor issues and still on the original battery (tests ok under load). For that matter, original brakes still have a few mm before needing replacement.
6) I do like the V-6. I have another car with a turbo V-4, and it gets better mileage (also it’s smaller), but it’s less fun to drive. The turbo takes just a bit to spin up before kicking in from a stopped position, so the engine is a dog before that. Also, again it’s more complication that I might have to fix if it breaks.
7) Spend proper money on regular maintenance and replace parts with OEM or better. Cheap works if you’re trying to make your non-daily driver beater last another year or two, and even then you have to make sure it’s safe to drive.
8) Understand primary fluids. I personally don’t care for the light weight oils that Toyota uses, but their vehicles are certainly reliable… to a point. Most that I know running on 0 weight and higher mileage will be checking and topping off oil more that I have to. That might be ok for you. I also don’t like having to pay premium gas (I don’t). If it’s not required, it’s nice to have that option.
I’d be careful with some makes that maybe have trouble going past 100k, if you want to keep it for awhile (I can hear the accusation now: “but you bought GM!”). I have multiple friends that have bought Pacificas or various Hyundai / Kia models, and they love them, especially the price, until the transmission dies just out of warranty, or the engine starts burning terrible amounts of oil. Has happened multiple times recently, sometimes to the same people.
Also, you can maybe save some money this time of year on the older model year (2024) that dealers want to move out: just be prepared to look online and maybe drive some to find one you like with a price you like. Also, sometimes you can get significant cash off for “driven” (but still sold as new, with warranty and everything), with maybe a couple thousand miles on it. Pick a day to haggle when the weather sucks, and they are just itching to make a sale, especially near the end of the month.
Pick your top desires in a vehicle, then find a couple vehicles that fit the bill. If you like the MDX for reasons you can list out, then put that and a couple comparable vehicles on your short list, like the Pilot with the higher trim level. Work it down and pull the trigger without regrets. Good luck, Stuart!
Stuart
That part was easy. The hard part is the compromises, opening myself to new brands, and the fear of having to visit dealers post-purchase.
Oh, and color choice.
A local dealer has had a red and black Pilot for 3 months. Does that mean they’ll be more flexible on the price, or are they saving it for someone who must have red?
This would be my third ever car purchase. It’s daunting, but the worst part is that it seems so many drivers are unhappy about their purchases. It’s difficult to walk into a car purchase thinking “I hope I don’t regret my choice.”
Nathan
I wonder how much of that is the shear number of “reviews” and comments. Or Internet glut of info about ….. Which may or may not be real.
If there are ai tool reviews how many ai car reviews or comments do you think there are?
Stuart
Could be, but why? There are obvious trolls that stand out after reading through a thread or YouTube comments, but also a lot with images and very specific details that seem easy to fact check.
I’ve been skimming through a lot of YouTube and Reddit discussions.
There are a lot of unauthoritative reviews, but also what looks to be firsthand anecdotes.
Vards Uzvards
What is so difficult about color choice?! A new car can be any color, as long as it is white. (And it should be a Honda.)
Stuart
We get road salt in the winter and pollen in the spring. Black’s out of the question to.
Brighter colors appeal to me, but don’t like to stand out. It seems there’s plenty of white and black close to me, at least in the trim I prefer, and too little of anything else. Color’s the least of things.
Nathan S
Well, a car is like a tool. What do you really want it to do? One size does not fit all, and what works for me might not be ok for you. I might like my old acetate Craftsman screwdrivers, but maybe you can’t use anything but soft grip Wera these days. That’s ok: both might work for us and accomplish what we want them to do in the specific way that we want to work with them.
I also go for gray, silver, etc., as I’ve spent my life between MI and OH, so I hear you on salt, grime, pollen, etc. But do ask yourself, if something checks all the boxes on everything else, especially the most important things, then does the red color exactly ruin it for you? If so, then color / appearance must be higher on your list.
It’s easy to obsess over details, especially for an engineer. When we bought our current house, we had to split our list of ~50 things we wanted into 3 lists of “must have, want to have, and just nice to have.” Even then, I ended up dropping one or two items from “must have.” And you know what? The homes I narrowed in on were roughly the same ones I was casually looking at in the early stages.
Trust your gut. The list helped nudge us toward the home we bought, and when you make that plunge, you kind of have to emotionally buy in and block out all other options, based on your facts you’ve assembled. There’s a chance you get a lemon (there are laws for that), but you have a lower chance to make a big mistake, based on all the research you have already done.
Jamanjeval
Test drive a cybertruck. Even if it’s out of your price range or whatever, just give it a go. It’s not 3 rows, but that funky bed has a lot of possibilities with the secure cover with extra height towards the cab.
I’ve owned 3 full-size work trucks in my life and this thing really impressed me with how much real, useable, flexible, secure space it has.
Personally, it’s out of my price range at the moment. But, it’s on my someday list. None of my trucks had been runway queens so I’m not offended in any way by the looks.
Nathan
So back to reality if you do narrow down to one or 3 devices you think you want to test drives etc etc. But don’t buy local until you shop a at least a day drive away in area
I live near a metro area and recently I’ve seen great deals if your willing to shop smaller local dealers ways away.
Like 2800 off a bolt because they bought it 300 miles away.
GB
I’m going to go against the grain and encourage you to look at ANOTHER GMC. My Sierra is 10 years old this month. I have had to replace one seal in the rear diff and one headlight since new. My wife’s ’22 Yukon is fabulous. Plenty of room, build quality is ages ahead of my 10 year old truck, solid feel and I love the simplicity of the body-on-frame with a NA V-8. These things rarely have to work hard and are designed and built for longevity.
I’ve seen it a handful of times in these comments. A lot of the models you mentioned are not true 3rd row vehicles. Sure, they have a seat back there, but the space is so tight that no one is going to comfortably use that space. When manufactures try to squeeze so much functionality into a small package they start making compromises.
Stuart
My 3rd row seats were put to use maybe 5 times in the past 8 years. It’s good to have, but not essential.
Yukon and similar are too big, a little pricy, and not a single GM vehicle made it to the IIHS safety pick list. That’s beyond how sour I’ve become about my current GMC.
Ken
If the 3rd row is negotiable have you looked at the Honda Passport? It has similar cargo room to the Pilot in a little smaller footprint since it doesn’t give up space for the 3rd row seat. Probably some deals to be had on the ’25s with the redesign for ’26.
We bought a’24 Pilot Trailsport last year and have been happy with it. In the city, the 360 camera really helps. We didn’t like the Grand Highlander or the Sienna(or the Toyota dealership) but were tempted by the Odyssey. We wanted AWD though so Pilot it was.
Stuart
I did, but between the two the Pilot seemed better-fitting.
Robert Landrigan
3rd row SUV’s are generally okay at a lot and not great at anything. If hauling folks, and often hauling folks with the third row dedicated to storage is your goal, then…
You want a minivan:) A hybrid Sienna AWD most likely:)
Or an F-150, but I admit, I love my truck but still miss the enclosed cargo.
For SUV’s – the Pilot is the best, the Highlander is fine, just boring, everything else will eventually give you trouble. It’s definitely a space where accepting boring pays off with reliability.
Mitherial
With pickups, get a quality topper/cap–preferably with the gull-wing opening side windows, and you have all of the enclosed cargo space you could ever need. No third-row seating of course.
emGee
FYI: Following your threads / site for many years.
Ok.
got to the end.
my experiences : for what you are looking at go test drive a F150 Crew cab. the family will love the huge cabin. You will love the comfortable seats. Also cannot go wrong with a slightly higher trim Pilot. Yes there is a redesign planned for 2026, but buy what you want now.
My experience with the following:
2007 Honda Pilot EX – Kept it 10 years. No issue except the AC was really weak in August Texas heat. It drove like a car. … Should have never traded it in. 100% reliable.
2008 Sequoia Limited – we still have it. Great space and reliability 5.7 V8. I am teaching my oldest to drive in it and will give it to her as her first car. Super tight turning radius for it’s size.
2013 F150 Eco-Boost. No real issues after the first 3 months with all the sync issues. Only toward the end the turbo flutter was happening on “cold” days. Only 71K miles, Covid crazy used truck offer and I sold it in 2023.
2017 Armada Platinum reserve. No issues at all. Not as comfortable as the Sequoia, but we still have this one and plan to keep it as it has terrible resale being a Nissan. With that said, we will never buy another Nissan product. The sales people were the #1 ranked POS of car sales POS and that is saying something.
2023 RAM TRX – no comment it is my play toy. probably can do everything a truck needs but I have another….for that. It is a great family truck. The front seats and back seats and suspension are so comfortable. For long trips: camping or light trails. This cannot be beat.
2024 Jeep Wrangler 392. My wife’s “play vehicle”. she always wanted a lifted jeep…this has a slight lift from the factory. if it were me, I would not have bought it. seats are not that comfortable. My girls hate it because they have to climb up to get in.
2024 F150 XLT V8 FX4 – My daily driver. Checked all the boxes and with massive discounts, it was an easy decision. I could not get another Sequoia (2021/2022) or Tundra TRD pro (2021) used at the price I paid for a new F150. I do not trust the new v6-turbo Toyotas yet. The F150 is quiet and comfortable. 10 year extended warranty was cheap through Granger Ford.
Stuart
Thanks! Wow that’s a lot of variety.
I think I’m warming up to the idea of not buying and holding. A pickup would be too large for a lot of the various places I sometimes need to park, and I won’t always be able to borrow my wife’s car.
A 2026 redesign is a great reason to buy now. I’ve had first-year model cars twice in a row (Equionox and then updated Acadia), and I’ve learned my lesson. I’ve also read about issues with others like the new Mazda CX-90 being a bit rough and need of refinement.
The Pilot having weak AC seems to be a common complaint.
Hatem Eldoronki
I just got rid of a 2025 Pilot Black Edition. I did not like:
1-Connectivity: the car spent 2 days at the dealer to install some king of wireless receiver that prevented the Honda app from connecting.
2-I received the car scratched, and they fixed it, but I felt like that’s an everyday thing to them.
3-The service desk people are not very welcoming, never even smiled or replied to my “good morning”. I hated the whole sales/service experience.
4-It is incredibly slow. That was my biggest dislike.
5-it felt ugly/bland after the first month.
I had a 2022 Tahoe Z71 right before the Pilot. Far superior in every thing. Except maybe the IVTM-4 4WD system.
But wait until the new Passport comes out.
Stuart
Thanks!
I’ve had a series of disappointing impressions of the dealerships around me. With one I visited yesterday, I tried to call last week, and no one picked up. Tried again, no one picked up. I requested a quote via Truecar. They sent me a message “we’re missing your phone number.” I requested another quote and provided my phone number. I missed their call. I called back 2 minutes later, and no one picked up. Called main number they gave in the voicemail. No one picked up. Went there. “Do you have an appointment?” How am I supposed to do that if they don’t answer the phones. “Oh, that’s the call center.” Okay. I told the salesperson the exact stock number of what I wanted to test drive. Walked around outside with them. He brought keys but no plate. He took my license, went back to the dealership. Came back. Sorry, no plates, but he said I could drive around the outer road or the parking lot. He made it sound like I was ridiculous for wanting to drive it at normal speed on the main road. I said I’d come back. Got a text today from a sales manager, “I see you visited but didn’t buy a car, what can we do?”
Grand Highlanders have a long lead time and dealer markups. Acura MDX with similar features is more than I wanted to spend, and I hear a lot of “it’s no better than Honda” about dealership experiences. I didn’t like the interior of the Mazda CX-90, and the online consensus is that its drivability needs to be refined (it’s still a very new build).
I’m tempted to buy something small and take a year to look for the best midsize. I’m also slowly convincing myself that I don’t need to keep a car if I don’t love it, and that’s makes things a little less stressful.
I should be excited about car shopping, but I’m not. With a lot of these brands, you need the highest 2 trim levels to get a remote start key fob. It’s unbelievable. I looked at Mazda, and there’s not even an option for remote start, just an app.
DaveMD
I went through this whole exercise a couple years back. I settled on the Ford Explorer. My criteria was reasonably priced, low maintenance history, wife liked it, and resell value in 10 yrs (based on previous models). Most of these cars have a decent safety rating. We also planned on this car being passed down to a kid.
Its been five years, only issue was a battery terminal and a rotten valance, cheap fixes. We almost bought a Highlander, a little too pricy for what we needed.
I’m on my 2nd Toyota Tundra, these trucks pay for themselves and then some. My neighbors have Ford’s, Chevy’s, Dodge’s. Unless I need a heavy duty, you couldn’t convince me to buy those trucks. I must have unluckly neighbors because they are riddled with electrical and engine problems.
Jered
I wasted an hour or more and read this thread through to the end, expecting to see that Stuart found the best vehicle, and everyone lived on happily ever after. Actually I stumbled on this site, trying to figure out why it has become so difficult to buy American Made replacement sockets and end wrenches, and found the answer to be very simply the Closure of Danahar’s Ft Sumpter plant, and then strayed to this conversation.
I have no experience in the vehicle segment he is shopping in. My ‘12 F350 Powerstroke and my wife’s ‘09 Subaru Forester have been the most reliable vehicles we ever owned; both were bought used, and we have put over 100k miles and presently counting on each. Collisions with deer have caused most of our repair bills, and at the current rate, will probably be the nails in the coffins of each.
But 2 issues in Stuart’s search were glaring to me as causing major confusion and compel me to speak up. 1. Image: who cares what you drive? The neighbors you like will not mind you showing up in a minivan; why bother try to impress the rest? It would not at all discredit your expertise in reviewing tools if you used a minivan to transport them, in fact it may enhance your authority on the subject. 2. The safety ratings: These have there place; but even in a best rated vehicle, I can be a hazard to myself and those around me in a vehicle I find awkward to drive; me driving a poorly rated vehicle I’m comfortable in is probably much safer for all of us. Use the safety ratings with a grain of salt, just like you would the opinions of all of us here.
In my family history, Ford Cars have been the poorest performing pieces of junk we have driven, and Subarus the best; Ironically Ford trucks have treated us the best, but I did happen to jump from an August ‘94 produced Powerstroke, to a Nov ‘11 produced Powerstroke, and may have missed some notable drama in between…
ColeTrain
Stuart, these were the most entertaining comments I’ve ever seen in one of your posts. I only wish I read it sooner. As a former service manager I can give you my opinion but it really shouldn’t matter and in your case doesn’t. Any new car that is in a new model year with a redesign will be a coin toss regardless of manufacturer and people’s opinions. There is simply no way to know if you got a gem or lemon because new models haven’t been around long enough to know yet so you simply have to go on a manufacturer’s reputation. To me it sounds like you have already made your choice and I think it’s a good one. Honda and Toyota are both top choices for obvious reasons but if you still are unsure since the future is impossible to tell just think of your needs and wants and if you still can’t decide here’s a simple list.
GM: you already have your answer.
Dodge/jeep…really?
Ford? Sure depending on what.
Large Nissan? (Armada) Count how many you see on the road tomorrow and then Google why.
German: you want it for 10 years, yes? Lol
Tundra: rear end problems
Subaru: towing something with a larger version of a car with trans issues?
Lexus GX: 2Ok+ for something over 100,000 miles?
Mitsubishi: remember their TV’s?
Volvo: hate Chinese tools? Buy a Chinese car?
British: I’ll stop laughing later.
Caravan: you want a VAN-onA-CAR chassis?
Mazda: your guess is as good as mine.
KIA: for ten years? Yes
Hyundai:… Is a KIA
Honda/Toyota: statistically a safe bet.
Hope this helps 😆
Alex
Alex on Autos for the best car reviews.
I’d say get a Honda Odyssey. Minivans rock
John D
I’ve driven 4 Chevy Traverses over the last 12 years. Most were 2-3 year leases, though I bought out the last lease 2-3 years ago when the lease companies lost their minds pricewise. My current Traverse is a ’21. All of them have been trouble free. All of them were decked out LT2+s/6cyl AWD. For the price they have been reliable and comfortable for my family.
I never seriously considered the Acadia. The car weight is identical to the Traverse and it is a lot smaller in the cargo/3rd row.
The only disclaimer that feel I need to add is that there is a reason I prefer not to own cars past the 6-7 year mark; which is where, IMHO, the reliability of all car makes becomes an issue.