Last week I received two high powered LED lights that I had ordered to the tune of $1000 each. The new design came out mid-summer, and seem to have been favorably received by users and resellers. Prior to ordering the two units, I checked the product out at B&H’s large photo/video showroom in NYC.
Note: This was a huge purchase for me, one I had been researching for a while, so I might be over-sensitive about the ordeal.
Unit 1 came with a partially assembled cable with an unfinished end that had internal wires showing. I tested its accessory mount, and it didn’t fit any of the standard accessories that the mount was designed to accept.
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Unit 2 also had an accessory mount issue, a sticky dimmer knob, and also a very loud “virtually silent” fan.
The cables had rubber-like sheathing that felt great, and the LED housings were well balanced, well designed, and mostly well constructed. But there were too many flaws out of the box for $1000 products.
Ultimately, the flaws in the design (accessory mount and large fan), and indications of poor quality control (partially assembled cable, misaligned potentiometer), were unacceptable to me.
It slightly bugged me that there was no country of origin information on the products or their packaging. The company that makes these is a reputable US company, but they most likely had the products built overseas.
By the next day, the LED products were packed up and on the way back to Amazon. They looked and felt the part of being “pro-grade,” but beneath the surface they just didn’t deliver on that premise.
After I sent them back, I did some more research and ordered a single unit with similar features. This one was presumably designed by a Chinese OEM company, and resold by a US distributor under their branding for $325.
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The Chinese-made product had a lower color accuracy rating (>85 vs. 94), but was otherwise similarly featured.
When it arrived, I noted a couple of differences. First, there was little attention paid to its physical packaging. There were also no instructions, not that the $1000 lights even needed the little wallet-sized pamphlet they came with.
The import LED light’s design is much less refined, but the performance seems to be spot-on. Standard accessories fit no problem, and the whole package seems “just fine.” I emphasize “just fine” because that’s exactly how I feel about it. There’s no elegance about how the product is designed or built, it’s about as utilitarian as can be expected.
The only potential issue is that the light emits a high pitched hum when dimmed between 50% and 70%, but I can live with it.
The $1000 product had a nice look and feel to it, but the $325 product works better out of the box. I would have been happy to spend 15-20% more for a couple of design enhancements, such as with the power and ballast connections, but ultimately there’s little for me to complain about.
In the end, I spent less and got more. It all came down to better form at $1000 vs. better function at $325. This happens so rarely that I felt it necessary to write about.
I am also mentioning all this because the same kind of things rarely happen in the tool industry, although they do happen. Undoubtedly, “the more you spend, the more you get” is a perfectly sound convention that is more often true than false, but there are a lot of times when the generalization fails.
For instance, I spent more for a Palmgren arbor press, and what I received was an imported press that didn’t work out of the box. Palmgren sent over replacement parts, and they too DO NOT FIT. The press doesn’t even have a Palmgren badge or sticker on it, so it’s not as if I paid extra for the Palmgren name!
There are a lot of tools and accessories where spending more pays off. Drill bits, cutting tools, hand tools, measuring tools, power tools, and so forth. I learned this the hard way after making many, many mistakes when I first started building my tool kit. There is a limit of diminishing return, however, after which added cost benefits are reduced or at least harder to identify.
What I’m wondering is whether any of you have had similar experiences, where you spent more on tools or equipment but didn’t necessarily get more for your money. Feel free to share your experiences in a comment or email!
John S
This is really interesting. I had an issue with an NWS tool bought from what I thought was a reputable company, but it was my first (and last) time purchasing from them. The tool came to me clearly used and the jaws of the pliers did not align properly – at least not to the expectations I had based on the videos I had seen and their price tag. These too got returned, but since it wasn’t amazon, I had to pay return shipping.
There were about 10 other things that went wrong (the package got ‘lost’ on the way there… and then found after I hassled them a lot… they never refunded me for originally paying shipping to my house OR for having to pay for return shipping (at least refund one of these, if not both ideally)… But to get a defective item was a big letdown. And THEN for them to claim it was not defective, so that all I get is a ‘store credit’ of sorts that I can’t even use to buy the same item again now because of the lack of shipping on the credit… Man. Nightmare customer service.
So for now, my thoughts on NWS pliers are not high, but that is probably more due to the retailer than the product.
Stuart
I’m a bit surprised by that. My experience with NWS has been quite the opposite. Where did you order them from? You can send me an email if you don’t want to mention the dealer publicly.
Defects do happen, but my tolerance for such goes way down as prices increase.
Chris Pyfer
The best example I can think of is the Ridgid shop vacs. There was a time, not long ago, you could get a 12 gal, 5 hp vac with a nice 2 1/2 inch diameter hose and all attachments for $ 49.99. Now for 3 bucks less you get a 6 gal., 4.5 hp vac with a 1 7/8 hose of much cheaper plastic that clogs constantly. The lid latches are a joke that release without warning ( usually when it is full of dust or worse water). Does anyone else find it annoying when a manufacturer takes a home run product out of their line and
replaces it with a dud?
Stuart
Shop vacuums are a special case. All of the major brands produce a regular line of vacs, and then “holiday special” models that are designed to be no-frills less-featured models with low price tags. I think that Craftsman is the only wet/dry shop vacuum brand that doesn’t make a special watered-down model just for the holidays.
Nicholas
Something like this has happened to my dad before. He went to the local Napa auto parts to get a 3/8 impact wrench. He had picked out the “professional” wrench for 100 dollars. It was a good while before he actually used it but it didn’t have a whole lit if torque, mabye 90-100 ft lbs. Later that day I was reading a magazine and saw a harbor freight ad and saw the same wrench in there for fifteen dollars. It is still working fine to this day though.
Jim
First thing that comes to mind is buying a beer at any professional sporting event.
Another case is with some retailers, such as Lee Valley and Garrett Wade, that do not identify the manufacturer / brand of their products. Once received and the brand is known, you discover you could have procured the same product at an alternative supplier at a discounted price.
Bill K
There are 4 stages in the life cycle of products: (1) Introduction, (2) Growth, (3) Mature, & (4) Deline. Product price & value vary significantly depending on the product’s stage. For example prices and margins are the highest in stage 1, but quality may lacking, as production glitches are fine tuned. Stage 1 buyers are early adopters and they pay a premium for the product. If a stage 1 product is crap to start with, the following stages may be very short or non existent. Stage 2, typical production problems are fixed, margins are still high. Stage 3 & 4, competition has set in, margins are reduced and for a product to survive quality must be at a minimum on par with competition. In the later stages, #3 & 4, expect higher correlation between price and value. As a result, as a consumer I seldom buy stage 1 products to maximize value.
Jerry
Stuart, I had a similar experience with LED flashlights. I am kind of a flashlight junkie, and have spent $50-$60 to get that ‘perfect’ light one time. Well. I lost it, so it got replaced with a $30 Fenix, which was just as bright, and with $90% of the workmanship. Well, after nearly losing the Fenix, I poked around the net, and found some different ‘cheap’ lights that had similar lumen ratings. I wound up buying a $9 light, that is almost as bright as the Fenix, has multiple brightness levels, and even has adjustable focus for the beam. I really like the focus able beam, and even though it doesnt have quite the max output, the ability to dial in how focused the light is, makes up for it. While the first light had a finish that was immaculate, and the Fenix very, very good, my current light is more utilitarian in finish. It also isn’t as refined. The other two, would come on at full brightness, and would ‘click’ down. My cheapo starts out in seemingly random modes, but has always cycled through properly from there. Maybe not good for a security light, but fine for finding the little spring that popped out into a dark corner.
My other more for less stories tend to revolve around Sears. I work odd hours, and go shopping at odd times, like Tuesday mornings, etc. I have gotten some screaming deals on returned tools that someone returned over the weekend. Our local Sears used to inspect them either Mon afternoon or Tues morning, and of re sellable would usually put them out on Tuesday, with big discounts. One week it may have been a ratchet, another week, screwdrivers, or a set of something missing one piece, but it was often half price or less.
Michael Veach
$1000 for a flashlight seriously
Stuart
This was a daylight-balanced LED lighting fixture, not a flashlight. These types of products are all obscenely priced.
It turns out that the cheaper import model has to go back too. Loud high pitched squeal at different power levels, and super loud tiny fans.
Dave L
Never hurts to check alternative products (and sources). After much research, I bought a Panasonic Lumix camera that’s also sold as a Leica-for a few HUNDRED more.
Stuart
Yup. I was looking into compact cameras a while back and that really surprised me. Same exact camera, different label, huge price difference. Snap-on and other tool truck brands do the same thing with certain tools, but in those cases you pay the extra premium for onsite tool truck service.
Dave L
Hammacher-Schlemmer comes to mind. Much of what’s in their catalog can be found cheaper elsewhere. What you’re getting from THEM is essentially a lifetime warranty, which some might be willing to pay for.
Hang Fire
It’s not exactly tools, but related- auto maintenance consumables. For example Toyota dealer auto transmission filter, (filter not screen) $155, WIX brand, $15. OK that’s an extreme case, so extreme I only bought the cheaper. For actually purchasing both, how about Kohler brand oil filter (for outdoor power equipment), $15, cross reference a basic Purolator, Motorcraft or Fram, $4… and I got a better filter.
Everybody wants to make the next Gilette shaver or inkjet printer, buy the original item cheap, get stuck buying the consumables forever. Film was like this until Digital killed it. PC Printers (and expensive ink) are going away because of tablets, smartphones, email and facebook. Only the government, older people and students with assignments print. Oh, yeah, and target shooters. Even banks can email me the deposit receipt.
Dave Wittmann
I just had this experience with a backpack leaf blower. I will not mention brands, but these are both well known commercial equipment names. I have been using product line A for, oh, let’s just say several decades and been extremely satisfied with quality, design and features. I purchased a new backpack blower from Product line A about 3 years ago. At the time it was the top of the line in power etc. I have had to put two new carbs on it and both of those have had rebuild kits installed.
About two months ago, I decided that enough was enough. I started doing my research and ended up purchasing the version of product line B that is supposed to be the apples to apples version of blower A. I spent bout $150 less on product line B than I would have spent on product line A.
There is no comparison between the two. Product line B is lighter, has about 25% more power and has much better ergonomics.
I am big on “getting my hands on it” before I buy it. Sometimes you can do all the research in the world and then when you pick it up and have it in your hands it just does not feel right and you end up going with something else. That is why I am not a big fan of buying tools online.
Jerrod
Can you identify Brand B? I’m in the market for a leaf blower.
Dave
Stihl. They are a bit pricey at $499 plus tax, but, I use them professionally.
JG
Stuart, you’re in the knife industry and you’re suprised by that? There are so many brands of expensive knives with zero quality control and faulty models/designs in the 300$+ price range. Then there’s dslr photography with major flaws all over the lens ranges, 1000$+ products with internal faults. How come you’re so suprised by that?
Stuart
With dSLR lenses, some lenses aren’t as much flawed as they are rife with compromises. There can be variances between lens copies, and that is extremely annoying when you’re talking about such expensive products.
With knives, I have seen many more quality control issues at the sub-$50 level than with $50+ products, but I do see what you mean. I haven’t tread into the $300+ price range, and don’t really anticipate doing so unless there is justifiable need or I win the lottery. But when comparing a $120 knife to a $40 one, many will have offer more premium form and function.
JG
These days I stay within 100$ range when it comes to knives but many years ago I was much into high end EDC. Bloody hell, some brands shocked me to death with their nonexistent customer service or plain random quality of finish. Won’t mention any names here, no need for a flamewar but you get the point. As of dslr lenses – there are models flawed by design no matter which copy, famous internal screw in nikkor 27-70 made of playdough etc.
What I mean in general is that these days the tendency is that the products are meant to last only so much. Sometimes it’s subtle, sometimes it’s obvious lack of giving a fuck when assembling. Majority of consumers wouldn’t spot quality even if it shot them in the face and manufacturers aim for sales eventually, no matter what ELSE they believe in. Toolguyd readers, tools in action viewers etc, that’s a fraction of lunatics caring enough to google their tools and as much as the manufacturers might like us personally we just don’t make enough profit for them to justify the cost.