It’s mid-March, which means it’s time to start scouting out this year’s potential Father’s Day tool releases. I came across a video for a new Wiss folding pocket knife.
I’m [almost] at a loss for words. This does not look anything like what I would expect from a brand like Wiss. Crescent? Maybe. But Wiss? I would have expected something a lot more… professional looking.
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Not to mince words, this looks like a tacticool mall ninja type of knife. It doesn’t look like the kind of knife a tradesmen might use on a jobsite, or DIYer in the workshop.
But, maybe I’ve become a little strong in my knife tastes. I like functional flash, but not flash for the sake of it. Maybe I would have oohed and aahed over this knife when I was younger.
Let’s take a look at the features:
It’s got a “titanium coating on stainless steel blade” that Wiss says is 3 times harder than stainless steel, for longer life and “a high end look.”
Titanium, eh? I guess it’s TiN or TiCN, whichever is cheaper. I hate it when brands use “titanium coated” instead of more accurate descriptors.
What kind of stainless steel is it made from? They were going for a “high end look?” That’s not how I would describe what I see.
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Moving on… the knife has a Tanto-style blade, with a piercing tip and a partially serrated cutting edge. Wiss says that this provides maximum utility.
It features dual thumb studs and spring-assisted blade opening mechanism. And an integrated frame lock holds it solidly in position. Umm… that’s not a frame lock. (At least not compared to knives with integral frame lock designs.)
The Zero Tolerance 0450 knife I reviewed has an integral frame lock. My Spyderco Techno, which I also reviewed, has an integral frame lock.
This Wiss knife has a liner lock, not an integral frame lock. (There’s a debate about this in the comments.)
Here are some more transcript quotes from Wiss’ promo video. I found myself almost screaming at the screen.
Precision-machined openings in the spine retain blade strength while reducing weight for a faster action.
I guess I could understand the need to shed a few fractions of an ounce of weight, but lightening a blade doesn’t usually give it faster action. More blade weight often gives it more momentum to open quicker.*
*I said this because of all the accounts I’ve read and heard about modified blades resulting in a slower knife. See comments for the discussion about why I’m likely wrong about this. Still, there are other factors that could/should be taken into consideration if a faster deployment speed is desired, such as slightly increasing the spring force of the detent that holds the blade closed.)
Besides, if it has a spring-assisted opening mechanism, how much faster can a slightly lighter blade be?
To close the knife, press the frame lock to one side, out of its neutral locked position allowing the blade to release and smoothly fold into the handle.
Again, this knife has a liner lock, not an integral frame lock. Home Depot’s product description has it described as a liner lock.
The slim, ergonomic handle is designed for maximum comfort and includes a reversible pocket clip.
Okay, the handle does look like it might be comfortable. It’s good that the pocket clip is reversible. From the product images, it shows the clip installed in a tip-down position, which is usually less preferred than tip-up.
And the full metal frame provides increased rigidity and features a built-in lanyard ring.
Lanyard holes are good. You can see the metal frame through the handle cut-out.
Milwaukee did something similar with their heavy duty scissors. The ends of the handles are uncovered, to remind you that they’re all metal.
The Folding Pocket Knife … Quality and Style from Wiss, the most trusted brand in cutting tools.
Quality? Maybe, I can’t tell either way from product images. A knife needs to be handled and used before the quality (or lack thereof) becomes apparent.
But the style? To me it looks like there were 3 or 4 prototypes, but instead of going in one direction, Wiss combined different design styles into a single knife.
Price: $18
ETA: Probably before Father’s Day 2016
Buy Now(via Home Depot)
Maybe I’ll give it a try, just to see if my initial hands-off take is completely wrong. Given my first impression based on their promo video (shown below), my opinion of the new Wiss folding pocket knife could only get better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3XbKRgQtu0
What do you think?
I’m having trouble looking past the style and at the potential functionality.
Drew M
Looks like a design by a committee where maybe one person on said committee actually likes knives.
Steve Zissou
Funny you say this. I was just thinking “I kind of like this. Then again I’m not a knife guy”.
I carry a Milwaukee Fastback when I’m working on a project, never carry a traditional knife.
Hilton
Not sure what a frame lock is though (my CRKT has a button to move before pressing the lock liner?) but this looks horrible. Just the type of knife to market to the teens though. I wouldn’t carry it.
Stuart
Examples here:
https://14cyiuhvcgv.com/zero-tolerance-0450-knife-review/%3C/a%3E%3Cbr /> https://14cyiuhvcgv.com/spyderco-techno-review/%3C/a%3E%3C/p%3E
In a frame lock, the handle itself acts as the lock. So imagine a liner lock, but with the liner attached to the left side of the handle.
JIM Baumgardner
It’s a little too tactical for me I carry CRKT Swindle and for my wood working I use my CRKT 3 blade gents knife.This will probably sell to the younger crowd.
Bruce
Staurt, that would be wrong. It is true that many modern knives have been made with handles that are monolithic frames, however a traditional folding knife has scales pinned/screwed/glued to an internal frame. It’s splitting hairs but this might be my least favorite review you’ve ever written. I too think the knife is crap, but so is every wrench/power tool knife I’ve ever seen. They are either gimmicky made in China crap, or extra crap on someone else’s decent design. I’m afraid you’re the one that comes off like a mall ninja in this review.
Stuart
Integral frame locks are a recent development. Unless I’m mistaken, it was invented by Chris Reeve Knives in the early 1990s.
Technically, frame locks are liner locks, but liner locks are not frame locks.
Show me a knife advertised as a frame lock that has an internal frame. All of the ones I have ever seen have a similar chunky external monolithic (I love that word) frame that serves in place of a liner.
I am okay being proven wrong, but don’t tell me I’m wrong, back it up with examples.
This isn’t a review, it’s a hands-off preview.
Sorry that you’re disappointed. I’m a mall ninja? *shrug*
I brought up the lock for two reasons – because the discrepancy suggests to me that Wiss simply slapped their name on the product, and because someone on the marketing team might have thought that “integral frame lock” sounds better “liner lock” without understanding the distinction, further supporting to my first point.
Jacob
I gotta admit, it always catches me off guard how serious people get about knives. They are like, the most utilitarian of tools, yet have some of the strongest opinions over a tool that has to do some of the simplest tasks. Not to hate on knife collecting, and I get that there are good knives and bad ones. It seems very much a personal preference over actual function most of the time.
Stuart
I wasn’t talking about this knife in the context of collecting.
What I have found is that, at least on inexpensive knives, when form is prioritized higher than function in a design, the functionality suffers.
That’s what I’m worried about – that this knife was designed to look cool, with functionality being almost an afterthought.
Compared to other Tanto-style knives, the geometry of this knife doesn’t look very useful to me.
mikedt
The price and the ETA are telling. This is a Father’s Day gift for men who don’t wear ties. (Just like every Christmas season that requires a monsoon of tool inventions you never knew you needed and will never use.)
Jacob
Honestly, it looks to me like this technically is a frame lock, but the whole frame is covered in a plastic or rubber so it appears like a liner lock. The lock does look like its cut into the internal frame, which is only exposed through that cutout in the black and red rubber on the sides. It doesn’t appear to be a secondary liner piece of metal like you would normally see.
Stuart
I believe it would still be considered a liner lock.
Other examples I’ve seen, with the liner attached to the frame, within added handle scales, are still liner locks.
I don’t think I have seen a frame lock that has added handle scale over it. Or with a lock that thin. This would go against every example of frame lock that I know of.
Either way, there’s a disagreement. The video says it’s a frame lock, the sales sheet says it’s a liner lock.
Adam
Pfft! $18 is not a lot to spend to look like an idiot.
Adam
Sorry, a dangerous idiot. Don’t want to insult the harmless idiots.
Milwaukee tool Steve
That looks to be a cool knife, don’t mind if I buy one for my dad.
Doresoom
While I agree with your overall assessment, a lower blade weight SHOULD result in a marginal decrease in opening time.
Your statement, “More blade weight often gives it more momentum to open quicker,” is actually incorrect, as Torque=(Moment of Inertia)*(angular acceleration). Mass distribution across the blade matters, but for the most part, a lighter blade will result in a smaller moment of inertia, and therefore a higher angular acceleration for the same amount of torque.
Stuart
Thanks, I’ll have to think about this a bit more.
I’ve heard about a number of examples where modified blades performed worse than a stock blades, due to the weight removed.
I also have a heavier Benchmade that cannot flip open due to a weak detent.
In a folding knife, select a ball detent with ever so slightly stronger spring retention, and you can achieve higher launch force, and thus higher velocity and opening speed.
Even if I’m wrong about a lighter blade opening slower – and I could be, at least in some cases – saying that the holes are for faster blade deployment doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
Once the detent is overcome, a slightly heavier blade and slightly lighter blade are going to launch with the same acceleration, meaning the heavier blade will be moving with greater energy. If there’s friction in the joint, wouldn’t the heavier blade be more resistant to velocity losses?
This might be a good reason for me to dust off my mechanics texts, although I sadly won’t have the time anytime soon.
Doresoom
You make a few good points that I didn’t think about – in the case I was arguing, I was considering only force on a thumb stud for actuation. In reality, there’s usually a wrist flick in there somewhere, and a detent that once overcome will give it an extra push.
For just a thumb+detent initial force, a lighter blade should still open with a faster *initial* velocity, since the initial force should be the same – that depends only on geometry, not on blade mass.
However as you allude to, for a flick of the wrist your reference frame (your hand holding the knife) has an initial velocity, and a higher moment of inertia of the blade will actually help it open, because it’s already in motion, and it would take more force to stop than a lighter blade.
Plus, I forgot to account for friction in the joint, as you point out. It depends on the coefficient of friction, and how fast the initial velocity was in order to determine whether a heavier or lighter blade will open faster.
There’s also the possibility of *perceived* faster opening speed, based on the amount of shock you feel as the blade snaps into place. A heavier blade exerts more force, which could be interpreted as feeling faster, since it took more force to stop.
So I suppose the case could be made either way, since there are a lot of factors here. Thanks for the interesting conversation, from one engineer to another!
Stuart
A good knife shouldn’t require any wrist action. But most folding knives do have a detent to ensure the blade doesn’t flick outwards freely.
I was only going by the modification results I’ve heard. I wouldn’t normally get into the pure physics for something like this. There are too many real-world deviations for purely theoretical discussions.
Corey
Seems to me that the velocity of the blade opening would be most directly affected by the ratio of blade weight v distance from the joint. Not to play devil’s advocate, but I can see a defensible track in their ambiguous marketing hot words lol However, I don’t for a second believe that they’ve actually invested any time/money/energies to engineer that skeletonized blade with ascendingweight distribution in mind
Aaronbz
Ur a dork, thanks for the science lesson doresoom. Oh yeah and knife looks like those cheap knives u see in the plastic display case at the liquer store, might look cool mounted on my quad or jet ski though
Chris Pyfer
Hmmm. Jet ski mounting knife dunce referring to someone else as a dork. Sounds right.
Aaronbz
U never know if ur gonna get caught up in a rope or something get wrapped up inside exaust, gotta be prepared. Maybe youll be stuck someday in a situation like that, hopefully there is another bad ass with a knife mounted on his jetski to save ur sorry ass
Mark S.
My $14 Dewalt knife from Xmas likely functions better than this knife, the angles seem off to me.
Don
Stick with your original gut feeling on this one. Its a no.
Rusty
Tool companies get a big book of knives from some Chinese factory and thenlet their middle school nephews pick what to sell.
Nathan
lol. OK so the blade design leave alot to be desired. I don’t like that sharp angle in the front – just doesn’t look like it would glide through anything.
Also, and I can’t help myself. Assuming assisted is with a spring – and keeping with the idea that one thing has to be held constant. Spring force for the lighter blade, or the heavier blade will be the same here. Again lighter blade to open faster is the presumption.
force is held constant as it is assumed the spring wasn’t changed. Force – mass x acceleration. Hold force constant, and lowering the mass means the acceleration HAS to increase. Thus the lighter blade has higher acceleration and thus faster velocity and thus will cover the sweep faster.
again – sorry but had to. It’s like a bad itch. If the blade was a different shape I’d consider one for about a minute then reach in my pocket for my leatherman.
Jennifer
Apex Tool Group (makers of Wiss products) appreciates you viewing the new Folding Pocket Knife video and pointing out the error regarding the frame lock. It is in fact a liner lock, a feature prominently mentioned on the product’s packaging. The video will be corrected. We’re sure it’s difficult to write a review without having the product in-hand – please let us know if you’d like us to send a sample. As you point out, this product retails for $18, so it’s hardly fair to compare it to knives that sell for $160+.
KokoTheTalkingApe
It sounds like you represent Apex somehow, Jennifer. Thanks for paying attention, and I am glad you acknowledge the “frame lock” error.
But your point about comparing it to $160 knives being unfair is not well taken. The ways in which the the Wiss knife falls short has nothing to do with it being cheaper than those other knives. There are many cheap knives that do not have the flaws the Wiss knife does. In particular, blade profiles all cost the same to make (for the most part.) Instead of that ridiculous blade profile, why not choose something simpler and more functional? Same thing with the opening method. Choose either a thumb stud or a thumb hole, but don’t use both, then choose an awkward hole shape, and then place the handle cutout where it is hard to use both the stud and the hole.
If I wanted a cheap knife for work, I would choose a Mora (fixed blade), an Opinel, a SAK Sentinel, a folding utility knife like the cheap Gerber EAB or the nice Milwaukee, or something from Spyderco’s cheaper Byrd line, depending on my situation.
JoeM
It looks like the front angle is to match a break-off utility box opener knife, the serration to match a serrated multi-tool knife, and the back edge reduced to minimum angles to allow for the thumb stud, and the absurd geometry. All while the “Straight Edge” knife is reduced in size to the point of being little more than a letter opener.
This is truly idiotic. Regardless of the agreement/disagreement over the physics and terminology, SOMEBODY at Wiss decided to try to do too many things at once with that blade. Regardless of what we all believe about what to call the handle, that BLADE is for morons who can’t decide what is needed for the job.
Norm
” This does not look anything like what I would expect from a brand like Wiss. Crescent? Maybe. But Wiss?”
They are both of the Apex Tool Group though.
Stuart
Yes, I know that. So are a number of other brands. But they should have independent management.
This as surprising to me as if it came from Gearwrench or Armstrong.
Allen
I’m not that good at sharpening but this looks like a nightmare.
Stuart
Agreed! But does anyone really sharpen $15-$20 knives?
Nathan
yes. or rather I sharpen my 21 dollar Leatherman Skeletool. waste not want not.
Allen
I carry and use my knife everyday, I sharpen it maybe once every two weeks. The crap(literally) I scrape and cut it would be useless if I didn’t sharpen it once in a while.
I still have every knife I’ve ever owned, except for one. When I plant that field I still look for it 30 years later.
KokoTheTalkingApe
Depends on the knife, especially the steel. That whippy, gummy stainless steel used for cheap cutlery cannot be sharpened. But carbon steel or even ordinary 440C and 420HC all take a great edge.
Jackal
As a knife enthusiast, this knife really would serve no purpose other than maybe opening mail or a package. Nice try but needs more functionality
Ken
Tried to order on line at Home Depot kept getting error message.Can’t enter try again later.
Christopher Trafnik
I would rather use my 10 dollar camillus folder.