Every so often I receive emails, usually from European and Australian readers, asking about the differences between a particular 12V Max USA-model tool and the 10.8V models found at their regional distributors.
There is no difference! Well, at least not usually. It is difficult to look back and pinpoint the exact time “12V” became the new standard. When Bosch spearheaded the compact cordless Li-ion tool market, their tools were marketed as 10.8V. Sometime later, after other manufacturers released tools of their own, Bosch switched to 12V nomenclature.
When you charge up a 10.8V battery, it very briefly measures as ~12V. But under load and during use, the batteries output 10.8 volts. In a similar sense, rechargeable AA batteries are 1.2V cells. But immediately after being charged and before being used to power a device, these batteries may be rated at higher voltages.
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So why are USA-models now marketed as “12V Max” and international models “10.8V?” Mostly, it’s out of necessity. Once one brand markets their compact cordless tools as 12V, they all pretty much have to. Some brands, such as Makita, resisted this trend as long as they could, but ultimately the shift is necessary in order to be competitive.
A few months ago I asked a European tool makers about the differences between two of their levels that were identical but with different shape profiles. Their reply was, in short, “Americans strongly prefer the larger levels.” I have heard similar declarations in the past, that Americans like things bigger, and the such.
But you know what, it’s a pretty fair stereotype when you consider tool trends. Let’s say there are two identical drills, except that one is blue and one is green. Both drills are priced the same and are placed on the same shelf. The blue tool is marked “12V Max” and the green one “10.8V”. Realistically, which drill do you think will sell better?
We’ve been trained to look at numbers and specs such as torque, battery power, and motor amperage. So is it really a shock that most tool brands now market their compact cordless tools as “12V Max” in the USA? If they didn’t, imagine how much of a competitive disadvantage they would suffer.
So why is this not the case in Europe and elsewhere? I cannot really answer that. A quick check shows that Bosch and Dewalt’s lineups are still marketed as “10.8V” there. The only brand marketing their new li-ion tools as 12V there is Milwaukee, with their M12 lineup. Although there’s no way to tell, I suspect that Bosch’s move to switch from 10.8V to 12V nomenclature was due to increasing competition from Milwaukee back when they introduced their M12 tools in the nascent compact cordless tool market.
As a society we’re still completely obsessed with numbers. We want more GHz, more megapixels, higher torque, more clutch settings, greater voltages, more apps, more horsepower. You get the picture.
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What I really, really don’t want to see in the future are “20V Max” tools that nominally run at 18V. I’m not sure about the size of current lithium ion battery cells, but I believe they’re 3.6V each, given that 3.6V x 3 = 10.8V and 3.6 x 5 = 18V. It is NOT possible to built a 20V lithium ion battery with 3.6V or even 1.2V cells.
While “20V Max” tools would be consistent with current 10.8/12V Max naming trends, it could create more confusion as competing manufacturers play the numbers game and adjust their own marketing practices.
What are your thoughts on the matter?
Jerrick
I agree with you, Stuart, especially about the potential to see “new” 20v tools on the market. I own a Bosch 12v Max impact driver and drill driver. These are very handy power tools. Would I have purchased them under the 10.8v moniker? Absolutely, especially if I could have found a set at a killer deal. That, in my opinion, is the only benefit consumers get out of this marketing gimmick.
Phil G
I had bought Bosch 10.8V tools early on. Milwaukee managed to market their newest line as “12V Max” not untruthfully, because a typical LiIon cell will peak at about 4.2 volts fresh off the charger. Hell, just about every cell chemistry, as well as both primary and rechargeable, will have a higher than nominal output voltage when “fresh”, even lowly carbon-zinc old-school cells. But it is rather misleading to attribute this fresh-off-the-charger peak voltage as a continuous operating level; by the time you are finished with the first hole or two drilled with such a setup, the voltage has already fallen below the “Max” level, and will stay there until it is recharged.
I did my own facepalm once Bosch (and every other manufacturer) began falling for marketing-speak using unrealistic numbers. Who can blame them, though, since “Twelve Volts” rolls off the tongue a lot easier than “ten point eight volts”, not to mention that “Max”-anything just has to be twelve kinds of awesome right away. You can file this deceptive marketing in the same place as 6.5 horsepower shop vacs, the 5+ horsepower air compressors that operate on 15 amp household current and the power race that beset the lawnmower and power equipment industry. You can toss a few 1000 watt boomboxes and zillion-candlepower deer spotlights there too for good measure.
Sadly, unless some regulatory chastising takes place, the next generation of “18 volt” LiIon tools will be sporting 20V Max nomenclature, and get ready for the awesomeness of the 40 Volt Max gear. I have two of the latter already, known better as 36 volts. 🙂
Justin
Too late re: 18V tools — Sears Craftsman’s C3 line has been marketed as 19.2-Volt for over a year now 🙂 hahaha. But yeah, they’re 18V tools like everybody else’s.
Stuart
Well, the Craftsman C3 line has been 19.2V for a long time now, even when they used NiCad cells. It is possible that their batteries were actually configured to output 19.2V nominally. It’s difficult to know for certain without cracking one open and testing it with a voltmeter. I am more suspect about their 20V Li-Ion batteries.
Mike
I bought the Makita 10.8v impact for work as an HVAC tech. I compared it to the Ridgid mini drill, Milwaukee mini etc. Found that the Makita had the highest torque and rpm speed at the time. I’ve used it every day all day for the past 2 years. Batteries still hold up in use, but could use a better clamp design, as the locking tabs break very easily. If I buy another it will probably be a Milwaukee set, only because of the large variety of compatible tools that can be used in my field. The Ridgid didn’t have a mini impact at the time, just a drill. I would prefer the Ridgid but it has less compatible tools than the Milwaukee. In any case these mini impacts are a HUGE blessing to me!
Stuart
Compact impact drivers look to be one of the most popular cordless tools available these days. 18V versions are even more powerful than the 10.8V/12V ones, but 800-1000 in-lbs of torque is still more than enough for most medium duty applications.
Joe Helms
Hi Stuart – thanks for the history on this.
I already had known the difference was just marketing, but I find it interesting to see how the change came about.
In all honesty though, I don’t really see what it matters – and I certainly don’t think they need to have it regulated in any way. The voltage is just a indicator for the tool class, as far as I’m concerned. You still look to the torque, rpms, etc. to make a final decision.
Greg
Us electronic cigarette users have 3.7 nominal batteries, not older 3.6.
finguy
Hi, now it is on the market, DeWalt has 20V Max lineup and i think others have to follow 🙂 cheers – guy from finland.
Steve H
Hi Stuart, I see the thread hasn’t been checked in a bit, but I had a quick question: A friend gave me a full set of Bosch 10.8 tools purchased in Europe. I’m hoping to use them here in the States. When I plug the Bosch charger into a travel-type power converter, and then plug it into my wall; the Bosch charger does not light up or charge the 10.8 battery. Therefore, could I solve the problem by buying 12v batteries and charger, to use in my 10.8 tool set? I know the batts and tools work because I was able to use them until the batts drained down to the point of requiring a charge. – Any advice would be appreciated.
Stuart
You should be able to use a Bosch 12V charger and battery with those 10.8V tools.
A starter set like this one should get you going. I mention the starter kit because it is barely more expensive than the charger by itself, but you might be able to find one for less.
Steve H
Thanks for the prompt reply and links, Stuart. I’d be delighted if I’m able to just buy and use a 12v charger like that to charge the 10.8v batteries I got when my buddy gave me his kit.
jsbson
What wattage does the 10.8V charger draw and is it within the range the travel adapter works with? Many of the travel adapters need at least a 50W load to actually work properly.
Most of the 10.8V Bosch batteries will also charge on the Dremel 12V charger. The battery mounting caps on the dremel and Bosch are different but contacts are the same on the 1.5 and 1.3Ah batteries. 4Ah should be but may have programing the charger won’t recognize. I don’t have any 4Ah to try out.
Steve H
Hey there, thanks for weighing in. I hadn’t thought about the adapter needing more load to work properly. The back side of the EU Bosch charger reads “Input 220V-240V ~ 50/60HZ 46W and Output 10,8V DC-3A”.
Coincidentally, I received a nice cordless Dremel 8200 with the same EU plug issue (my Dremel is corded) and the back of that charger reads “Input 220V-240V ~ 50/60HZ 26W and Output 3,6V-10,8V DC 1,5A”.
Do you think both the Bosch and the Dremel would be remedied by buying the US 12V chargers for each (for what it’s worth these Bosch batts don’t fit in the EU Dremel charger I received); or might a different type of wall socket adapter allow me to charge these without having to buy new chargers?
I appreciate the help!
Pat lynard
So my new 10.8v will not harm my milwaukee m12 drill.?
Ebay seller mistakenly sent 10.8v.
I live in the US so I suspect these are European.
I’ve been using Vanon knock off batterys for 3 years and work great. My old Milwaukee batterys burned out. And charger. I sent them milwaukee and they said $140. I said no way am I paying them. Lost $9 shipping.
My worst experience was with home depot 2013 when I got a 3 drill set. By one get one free. The salesman said NO it ain’t true. I said what? With 5 men witnessing i pointed to the sales floor poster. Buy one get one free m12 bare tool.
the salesman said again” it won’t work”.
I went to the cash register and it worked fine. All witnesses in total disbelief how home depot trains there people to be idiots. I could go on and on story’s you would not believe.
I shop Lowe’s now.
Stuart
Milwaukee’s M12 system is marketed as M12 everywhere – I don’t think I have ever seen it advertised with 10.8V language.
Use knockoff batteries at your own risk. Some have had acceptable experiences with them, but you’ll never see me recommend or encourage them.