I’m not impressed with what I see, but maybe your take will be different. There are 5 12V Max bundles, featuring their PS31 brushed motor drill, compact reciprocating saw, and impact driver. The bundle involves a bare tool plus a charger, 4.0Ah battery pack, and tool bag.
I added all this to the Lots More Tool Deals on Amazon post, but it was a late addition and you might not have seen it.
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After looking a little more closely, and forgive my bluntness, but the Bosch bundles are TERRIBLE deals. I’m just looking at the drill deals, maybe things are different with the other tool options.
Some of Amazon’s new “bundle” deals will save you money. Instead of manufacturer bundles, they have created tools combinations of separate products. This seems to be something new they’re trying out.
Take this Dremel rotary tool kit for example. It comes with a tool kit, plus a separate flex-shaft adapter. This other kit option features a different (bigger) kit that’s “bundled” with Dremel’s 3-jaw chuck.
Some bundles save you money, most don’t, but provide a convenient way to link products together.
I’ve been meaning to buy a Rubbermaid Brute trash can in 20 gallon sizing for some time now. The couple times I almost made it to checkout, it was a pain to match the garbage bin to the appropriate lid. When I was ready to order just before Thanksgiving, I was delighted to find a “bundle” that included both.
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It’s pretty much the same as adding both items to your cart, and I was pleased with the order being a little more convenient.
Now, as for these Bosch bundles… they’re not very good, even though they do save you money on the separate items.
My issues with these bundles is not really about the bundles, but how they feature really bad bargains. Buying a bare tool, a charger, and a battery? That’s not the way to do things. You can save a lot by buying starter kits, or even tool kits.
A PS31 bare tool with 4.0Ah battery, charger, and tool bag, for $174? Wow, it’s $32.20 less than buying them separately? But $174 is still terrible.
Nope, it looks to be the same with the PS60 kit.
I’d buy this:
- Bosch PS31 drill kit for $99
Don’t like the 1.5Ah batteries?
- 4.0Ah battery for $69
- 2.5Ah battery for $49
- 2.0Ah x 2 with charger and L-Boxx for $69
- 2.0Ah battery for $39
Also See: Bosch $25 off $100+ Round 2 Promo Doesn’t Suck!
Just looking at batteries, you could get the Bosch kit for $99, and then a 4.0Ah battery and 2.0Ah battery for $83. So that’s a total of $182 for a drill, charger, 2x 1.5Ah batteries, 1x 2.0 battery, and 1x 4.0Ah battery, for $8 more. The kit should include a tool bag too.
Or get the 4.0Ah battery and carefully select $31 in other accessories, or slightly more to push that second part of the order over $100, and you could end up with a $75 order total. Combine with the drill kit, and you end up with the same $174 total price, but also 2x 1.5Ah batteries and whatever else you ordered to push the 4.0Ah battery over $100.
Hmm… Oh, what a mess!!
A lot of the tools in these bundles are eligible for $25 off $100+ savings, but you don’t get it if you buy the bundle. So add them to your cart separately, skip the tool bag, and you pay less.
Take their combo bundle option. You save $50.85 off the $316.97 “if bought separately” price. Their price: $266.12.
Here’s what I can do:
- Reciprocating Saw + Blades for $77.06
- Bare Drill + 2.0Ah battery for $94
- 12V Max L-Boxx Starter Set with 2x 2.0Ah batteries + LED flashlight for $93
Total: $264 and a few cents.
Their kit includes a 13″ tool bag, my configured kit includes an extra L-Boxx tool box, reciprocating saw blades, and 1 extra 2.0Ah battery pack, plus $2 savings from their bundle price.
There’s a bundle with 2x 4.0Ah battery packs, for $224.
I’d instead buy the drill/driver kit and 2x 4.0Ah battery packs. Or a Starter Kit plus 4.0Ah battery pack at the same price.
Total price: $99 plus $69 plus $69 minus $25 for $212. So you get a different tool bag, which probably won’t fit all the batteries, and more batteries, for $10 less. The batteries will be 2x 1.5Ah plus 2x 4,0Ah, or 1x 4.0Ah plus 2x 2.0Ah, or 4x 2.0Ah. And you get 1 or 2 L-Boxxes too, although you don’t get the fitted tray as with the bare tool.
But since you have the charger anyways…
- Bare Drill plus 4.0Ah battery for $124
- 2.0Ah x 2 with charger and L-Boxx plus 2.0Ah battery for $83
Total: $207. You get the drill, 2x 2.0Ah batteries, a charger, 1x 4.0Ah batteries, and an L-Boxx, compared to the drill, 2x 4.0Ah batteries, a charger, and tool bag, for $224.
Amazon’s Bosch 12V Max bundle savings suck. Well, at least in comparison to spending some time piecing together your own kit to take advantage of their $25 off $100+ promo.
Adam
I can only imagine how you felt after typing that all up, as it was a bit daunting to take it all in. Very informative and appreciated.
Stuart
Thanks! It was more of a “let’s work this out on paper” kind of thing, and at the end I realized a separate post would be justified.
Part of me wondered if I was just saying the obvious, but I also figured that even if someone isn’t shopping for Bosch 12V Max tools, or cordless tools at all, the bundle info and scrutiny might still be beneficial down the road.
Plus, maybe the post is a gentle reminder that the $25 off $100+ promo is a great time to buy into Bosch’s 12V Max system.
There are great bargains to be had, especially if you carefully add small eligible accessories to close-to-$100 tools, like the jigsaw. The lowest priced eligible accessories I’ve found in the past were bits and blade packages in the $5 to $10 price range, but I could always use more of those.
James C
I was thinking up a comment regarding how I’m pretty tired of trying to find deals on Amazon when the doorbell rang with an Amazon delivery (seriously!). Their convenience for certain things is unbeatable for me, but there’s a lot about them I’m starting to dislike.
Jon
I wouldn’t recommend buying the PS31 kit for $99 when there is also the PS32 kit on for $135 – you get the brushless drill instead of the brushed version and two 2.0 amp batteries instead of 1.5 amp batteries.
If you don’t specifically NEED the 12 volt tool, then an even better deal is an 18v kit for $149 that has an 18v drill and an 18v impact driver and two 2.0 amp batteries plus charger and bag.
Toolfreak
It’s too bad Amazon’s business model seems largely built on having so many different things that a customer just says screw it and picks something regardless of price, or they specifically cater to customers who don’t care what the price is and just want to buy online.
Having more choices is usually good, but having so many choices where the pricing is arbitrary and makes no sense is just a way to create confusion.
Amazon has some good Bosch stuff, but I’ve had better luck getting the best prices on the 12V Max stuff at Lowe’s, waiting until they have the lowest price, stacking coupons and discounted gift cards, and then even with tax I’ve scored a way better deal than any online price, plus i can usually pick up the item at the local store and do a return/exchange if anything is amiss.
I do like Amazon for certain things, but they could probably increase the power tool sales by making the bundles at least cost a few bucks less than what the seperate tools go for, plus they’d pocket more money by shipping one bundle instead of shipping multiple tools in seperate shipments. They sure don’t operate that way, though. Apparently as long as they are raking in the dough, increasing profits by cutting down on unnecessary multiple package shipments to the same customer isn’t a concern.
Jason
I despise the Amazon emails I get with 45% off such and such power tool brand. Then I look at the details and its street pricing or worse. Sorry don’t base you discount on a crazy MSRP no one besides Graninger might use.
fred
One of my other pet peeves is how Amazon announces some price drops for items you have parked in your wish lists or shopping lists for potential future buys. They’ll sometimes proclaim a big % off – when in fact the price is the same or even more after shipping is figured in – the original price coming with Prime shipping – the new price from a third party vendor, I guess its just some dumb algorithm that posts the announcement – but it is still annoying.
Jason
That is so annoying I just ignore those announcements now because I’m so conditioned on it being bs.
Drew M
What I find annoying is that many of these kits come with the BC330 instead of the BC430. The 3A charge rate of the 430 is really nice for 2Ah and 4Ah packs. Frankly, I don’t even know why Bosch still makes the BC330.
That said, I’ve been thinking about getting a few 4Ah packs but at $70 for a single 4Ah or 2x2Ah, a charger and an Lboxx case for $70, the 4Ah packs seem grossly overpriced. If Bosch lowered them to $40, I think that would be much more reasonable.
Adam
Same reason I got 1.5ah with my Bosch hackzall years ago, even though 2ah had been out for a while: they have to go somewhere. Probably a lot easier to get rid of the old charger in a bundle, but one hopes they are getting the most current offerings.
hopefully Lowe’s branded power-tool battery pricing pushes others to drop their prices, though I doubt it
Stuart
I think that’s more about profit margin and also consistent specs among fresh stock and “new older stock” at retailers.
When a tool is fresh off the market, profits might be slim, or even negative. The more tools are sold, the more use new parts, injection moldings, and tech is used, the cheaper the per-unit costs become.
It doesn’t seem like a good idea to increase the cost of a cordless tool kit mid-product cycle.
And you also don’t want to have different retailers offering different versions of the same kit. Or retiring model numbers for new only slightly upgrade variations at higher price points.
Toolfreak
Bosch only includes the 1-hour BC330 charger with kits now due to the power draw of the 30-min BC430 charger, apparently 3A was pretty high to get that fast charging and ran into state laws/regulations about energy usage. I think the same thing happened with the 18V charger and the kits come with a 1-hour charger instead of the older 30-min one. Sounds weird but that was the official explanation as I read it on the Bosch site.
I have both the BC430 and BC330 but only use the BC430, had to buy it seperately but it was way worth it. It actually takes a lot less than 30 min to charge a 12V Max battery if it’s a 1.1-1.5Ah, the 2.0Ah and higher probably take longer since those higher capacities didn’t exist when the BC430 charger was made.
I think Bosch only produces the BC330 now, the BC430 is still available to buy but they are old stock. I’ve been waiting for a BC530 or some newer Bosch charger to come out, something fast but that meets energy efficiency requirements.
Stuart
That would be a good explanation, but are you sure?
Some brands’ 18V chargers have an even higher charging rate. If efficienct was somehow 100%, that would mean 108W to charge an 18V 3.0Ah battery in 30 minutes.
Current draw would be nearly 1A.
A charger that delivered 10.8V at 3A would mean 32.4W. I don’t know what normal charging losses are, but let’s say 25%. So that’s 40.5W. The power outlet draw would be around 0.37A.
I don’t have a Bosch 12V charger nearby, but I do have an 18V charger, BC660. Input is 50W, output is 2A.
Is it correct to consider it as 50W in and max 36W out? That would be what, 72% efficiency?
I’m confused now.
I don’t see how a Bosch fast charger would run into energy usage regulations, but I’m also not at all familiar with energy usage regulations.
Toolfreak
No, I’m not sure, but that was the Bosch rep’s answer on the review page for the BC330:
https://www.boschtools.com/ca/en/boschtools-ocs/chargers-bc330-113789-p/
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Where did the 30 minute chargers go?
I have many of the Bosch 12 volt tools. I recently bought another 12 volt impact from Bosch, and it came with this one hour charger? I am left wondering……why in the world would Bosch come out with a 30 minute charger at first, but then discontinue it, and come out with this one? Most of us who use these tools at our jobs, don’t have yet another 30 minutes to wait for a battery to charge! Could a Bosch Representative please respond to this review?! If there is a good reason why Bosch 12 volt tools now come with this new 1 hour charger instead of a 30 minute charger, I would sure like to know!
Response from Bosch Tools:
Thank you for your question. New Energy Laws went into effect 2/1/13. Our 30 minute chargers were not compliant with the new energy requirements and could not be manufactured after that date but could still be sold until stock was depleted. If you have further questions please feel free to contact our Customer Service Representatives at 1-877-267-2499.
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It probably has something to do with Energy Star requirements, or it could be a case where Bosch needed to comply with stricter laws in a few states in order to be able to sell the same charger in all 50 states and not make a special one just for those.
I don’t know what the charging profile is, but I’d guess it slowly charges them at 11V to start, then ramps it up to over 12V, since that’s what they start at when fully charged, then plateau down to 10.8V. I thought Li-ion chargers were a lot more efficient than 75%, something like really really close to 99%, at least on paper. Maybe contacting Bosch would yield more details, though I doubt they will spill the beans on exact numbers.
Though there is the obvious benefit of shorter wait times for battery charging, I’d be interested to know whether charging them in a 30 min charger gives a shorter lifespan (fewer number of total charges) compared to a battery charged in the 1-hour charger.
Toolfreak
And here’s info on the Energy Law that went into effect February 1, 2013 that they were likely complying with, specifically with reference to battery chargers:
http://www.energy.ca.gov/appliances/battery_chargers/documents/Chargers_FAQ.pdf
Stuart
Thanks!!
That’s some great digging!
Battery charger systems use energy in three modes: (1) energy used to actually charge batteries (charge mode); (2) energy consumed by the battery charger when the battery has been removed or disconnected (no-battery mode); and (3) energy consumed after the battery has been fully charged (battery-maintenance mode).
The proposed standards will eliminate wasted energy by setting a limit on the total electricity consumed by a battery charger in all three modes. Many consumer electronics manufacturers produce chargers that already meet the standards.
I wonder what part of the charger isn’t compliant.
Maybe it’s the efficiency. I’m under the impression that battery charging isn’t linear, with the final 25% taking longer than the first 25%.
Maybe the charger wasn’t built to be smart or efficient enough, which would be understandable when considering that 12V Max tools and accessories are supposed to be appreciably cheaper than 18V.
Jon
What a bunch of total BS!
The linked PDF document claims that on average chargers waste 2/3 of the input power due to inefficiency. I don’t know what kind of chargers they are talking about but that’s absolutely false!
The typical battery charger has an efficiency of 75% or better which means only 1/4 of the power is “wasted” but it’s not something you can magically fix, it’s by the nature of converting AC to DC using relatively low cost parts.
You can double check this by examining the power used by a charger with a watt meter if you are unsure!
Drew M
So some morons in CA pushed through legislation… I can’t say I’m surprised.
The comical thing is that my R/C hobby chargers (DC/DC) are ~95% efficient and the power supplies (AC/DC) running them are 94% but all the “math” I’m seeing looks like it was done using sidewalk chalk.
Drew M
http://www.energy.ca.gov/2012publications/CEC-400-2012-011/CEC-400-2012-011-CMF.pdf
section 1605 (w) tables w-1 and w-2
The bit about inductive charging will probably put an end to all inductive chargers because their efficiency is awful and they’re limiting them to 1watt of power.
Zack
The two-tool kit with a drill and an impact driver is currently priced at $159 on Amazon, but goes down to $129 every couple months. Apparently it even went down to $119 twice this year:
http://camelcamelcamel.com/Bosch-CLPK27-120-12-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Batteries/product/B0046ZRYPE
If I were interested in buying into the Bosch 12V system, that’s what I’d get.
Stuart
That kit is currently $159 and eligible for $25 off $160, dropping the price to $124.
https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-CLPK27-120-12-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Batteries/dp/B0046ZRYPE/?tag=toolguyd-20
$124 isn’t bad. I do remember seeing it at $129 every so often.
It’s also worth mentioning that the brushless PS32 kit is $135 – $25 = $110.
https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-PS32-02-12-volt-Brushless-Batteries/dp/B00HUCUF4W/?tag=toolguyd-20
I would swear someone just mentioned it, but I don’t see a comment here or in the other post.
G
Amazon.ca has the Ps31 kit (drill, 2 batteries, charger) on for C$91. I bought a Bosch spade bit set with it for $10 more, to get the 25% off. The total cost with 12% sales tax was $85. (About $63 American). If I subtract the good valued spade bits (which I will use), the drill kit cost is around US$55.
RC WARD
If I have to work that hard to get a “deal” it’s not a deal to me. Sorry Bosch you failed on this one.
Mark
I’m 99.9% sure the 12V brushed drill comes with 2ah batteries now, and have for at least a year or two. That’s what it says on the boxes at Lowe’s. They do now have a 2.5ah battery you can get from amazon…
Mark
The reason I know is I work at Lowe’s and one of the significant differences between the two 12v lines we carry is batteries – the DeWalt 12v comes with 1.3ah batteries, the Bosch comes with 2ah batteries. Been that way for 2 years.
Stuart
Thanks for sharing that info!!
I hadn’t checked in-store stock; my assumptions come from online imagery and descriptions, which aren’t always updated with product changes.
Hmm. Bosch’s website shows what look to be 2.0Ah battery packs, but they only describe them as “12V Max Lithium-Ion Batteries.”
In the post, I’d still rather be cautious and say 1.5Ah batteries, because they’re at least 1.5Ah. Amazon’s current product description doesn’t specific the size either.
With the product numbers not changing with updates, there’s no guarantee what kind of batteries one will get if they order online. Maybe a warehouse dug up a palette of kits with 1.5Ah batteries.