I’ve read up on this a lot, but don’t seem to be any closer in making a decision.
We’re moving into a home which has a large basement, split into 2 parts – a utility room and a rather large main room. Due to the age of the home, and look of the flooring tiles, we’re pretty sure they’re asbestos vinyl tiles.
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The tiles are intact, but I plan to do a lot of work in the basement, and so I want a new floor. Plus, the tiles are dark, and with a somewhat low ceiling, I want a brighter and lighter colored floor.
So what I want to do is encapsulate the basement floor with a moisture/vapor barrier, and then apply a basement-safe floating floor on top of it. We’ve got a sump pit and dehumidifier in the utility room, and so while the basement doesn’t seem to be wet, it’s not bone-dry.
I was thinking about DriCore (shown above), which has a plastic base and OSB top, but it’s nearly 1-inch thick and is more meant to be a subfloor than a finished floor, meaning another flooring material would have to go on top. I also considered using plastic garage tiles, but they’ll make a lot of noise if used bare and will likely puncture through any moisture barrier I put down.
Plus, there’s enclosed ducting running lengthwise throughout the entire room, and it’s maybe 3 feet wide. I have to duck to walk underneath it, and would be hesitant to raise the floor in that part of the room any higher than really needed. I figure that we’ll keep that part of the room for household storage, and other items I don’t need to access frequently.
There are other underlayment options, mainly dimpled plastic sheets, on top which new flooring panels can be installed.
So that brings me to maybe vinyl or laminated planks, which could be assembled into a floating floor on top of a breathing moisture barrier.
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But which one? Argh!
I was hoping for glue-free installation, but a lot of the more “put it anywhere” products, such as Home Depot’s TrafficMaster Allure flooring, have adhesive strips to lock together.
I wish I could tell you I had many any sort of decision. Any time I look into this, I end up with 100 web browser tabs and windows open, with 5 different types of underlayment/moisture barrier, and then 20 types of potential vinyl or laminate flooring options
So…
For those of you have put down a new floor on top of your concrete basement floor, or vinyl (or asbestos vinyl) over concrete basement floor, what did you go with, and how much do you like it?
Nate818
Self leveling epoxy
Nathan
Are you sure you won’t have to take the asbestos tiles up?
just curious as I don’t know and would thing of it.
meanwhile +1 on the epoxy idea – you want to seal it all up, and you want something easy to maintain but have wear and traction.
I’d forego the tiles and go straight to concrete floor sealing epoxy.
Stuart
Removing asbestos asphalt tiles introduces hazards and should only be done by an abatement company. Then there’s the mastic, which from what I’ve read also usually contains asbestos and is not easily adhered to.
The general recommendation is that, if an asbestos floor is intact, don’t mess with it.
Nathan
wasn’t sure, don’t know anyone who’s done it. I’d still seal that up tight with some epoxy.
Skye
No need to seal it. It is sealed up. The process of removing it releases the harmful particles into the air. If the original poster or anyone in that situation wants to simply use it or cover it up there is rarely any danger, again the danger comes from removing and so disturbing the asbestos.
Ningwut
There are guides on how to do it safely. It’s not rocket science and I’m sure you already have the tools- good vacuum, special filter bags, respirator HEPA air filtration and tools to seal off and isolate the area.
I’d just do it.
fred
I’m blessed (maybe cursed?) by having almost 3000 sq. ft. of basement. About 2400 sq. ft. was already finished when I moved in 40+ years ago. The prior owner told me the basement was very dry – and 40 years experience, and the wood floor in the finished area proved him right. Since I had 8 foot of headroom in the newer unfinished area – I was able to somewhat replicate the old wood floor that was installed prior to WWII. The older area floor had sleepers on 12 inch centers that were trapezoidal in profile and a full 4 inches thick. Plain old tar paper was used as the vapor barrier over the reinforced concrete floor. There was no subfloor – under somewhat unfinished 4/4 oak T&G narrow floorboards. This has held up for me and the machinery that I installed on top of it for my basement shop. When I did most of the remaining area (about 35 years ago) I still used a tar paper vapor barrier, Douglas fir sleepers, plywood subflooring (to match the elevation of the old floor) and oak flooring. In one room I omitted the oak, and built up the subfloor finishing it off with self-adhesive tile squares. Its all held up well – but again I live in an area higher than its surroundings, with sandy subsoil, way above the water table, have a poured concrete foundation, what I hope is good termite control, and finally pretty good (for a basement) cross ventilation.
Tom
I know that this wouldn’t help with your ceiling height issue, but have you considered insofast tiles? You could probably do a thin subfloor and tile on top.
One issue with adding to the floor height is it may take your staircase out of code. If you have a seven inch rise and add three inches of flooring, you will reduce that rise to four inches.
Tom
Sorry, I meant a thin subfloor and carpet on top. Not tile.
Fazal Majid
Can’t help with the asbestos, but I recently came about this article suggesting cork as a material for a woodworking shop:
http://etherfarm.com/corkage/
Stuart
From what I read, cork is not a good material for a basement. In that article, the author specifically says their basement was designed for residential use, with full environmental controls and a heated floor.
Josh
I just did this in my basement a few years ago. I work in building science at a large federal agency, so I had some decent resources to point me in the right direction. I ended up using Delta-FL with cork floating planks right on top. Most cost effective and durable system I could come up with. Dri-core has had some issues over the years due to the fact that you can’t effectively seal the seams and moisture can migrate to the panel edges.
Stuart
Thanks! Delta-FL is one of the options I have also been looking into. It doesn’t seem to be very available around here, but I found something similar at Home Depot – DMX 1-Step.
They also make a vapor tape for sealing edges together.
There’s still the question about what to put on top of that. I do like that it’s relatively thin – I believe 5/16″.
This stuff does require a minimum thickness for proper floor rigidity.
I previously considered an AirGuard moisture barrier, but I think there’s a higher risk that it would trap moisture.
What I also don’t want to happen is for the vinyl asbestos floor to degrade quickly because it can’t breathe under whatever goes on top of it.
But then again, the previous homeowner said he waxed the floors somewhat regularly, and I guess without any obvious issues.
But it's me!
I had to order it from Spycor. Relatively inexpensive stuff, considering. Comes in a pretty big roll.
But it's me!
I’ll second the Delta-FL, although it will cost you some vertical space as noted. I used it on a slab to allow it to breathe, followed by plywood, tar or rosin paper, and stapled 3/4″ oak, but that is a different animal and I had plenty of vertical room. I am not a fan of floating engineered or laminate floors for big rooms, but it sounds like the best option in your case. My bias may well be due to observing bad install jobs!
Bruce
I would go with glue down walk off carpet tiles. They are like outdoor carpet so they clean easy and vacuum up nicely, they don’t care if it’s wet, and if you manage do damage one, they peel right up and you can stick down another.
Stuart
That’s kind of something I had been considering, at least for the storage and non-working areas.
They make interlocking carpet tiles (Blocktile) that are suitable for basements.
But the cost is still pretty high – $4/square foot with bulk quantities.
We also saw some mice activity, and I would be hesitant to give them anything they could eat. I suppose if these are rated for basements, the fiber could be an inorganic material. If it locks together with the company’s Coin Top floor tiles, I could mix and match based on activities of the area. Maybe Coin Top at the storage areas and carpet where I’ll be working.
Bruce
I’m talking about commercial glue down carpet tiles. They make ones for entry ways that make it so you don’t have to have rugs in your entry. They are a super durable nylon weave on a rubber back. You could carpet your yard with them and pressure wash it off if it gets dirty. Check with a commercial carpet supply store. They are more expensive than normal carpet tiles, but you’ll never worry about them.
Stuart
Yes, but if I ever have to take one up, it’ll likely rip the asbestos tiles up with them.
Mike
I know it’s easier to work on an empty house and you’re probably anxious to get a shop going down there, but might I suggest you do nothing for a while? Most houses get prettied up for sale and inspection so it’s hard to accurately tell if there’s been water intrusion in the past. Give it a year so you can see for yourself how the basement handles snow thawing and a rainy season. It costs a small fortune to refloor and you don’t want to do it twice. Finding out that you get standing water when it rains 2″ in an hour will make a huge difference in what you choose.
Stuart
Good advice, thanks!
We actually bought the house a couple of months ago, but updates to the bathrooms and HVAC have taken us far longer than anticipated. Thus far, knock on wood, I haven’t seen any issues, but it also hasn’t snowed yet.
I wanted to get a new flooring down before we moved, so that I would have a good place to put a lot of stuff quickly. Then we could unpack and add furniture to different parts of the house without tripping over boxes and equipment.
It’s not “now or never,” but “now or who knows when?” Plus, some of the stuff that was going to go into the basement might be heavy enough to damage the floors. I guess in that case I can build small platforms using DriCore, or simply OSB, or rubber blocks.
This debate about what to put down on that floor has circled back a couple of times now, each time sucking up lots of time.
Hmm… maybe I’ll wax the floors and throw down some rugs where there will be foot traffic, and just a platform where they might be heavier activity and work.
Sergey
I second that it’s better to wait a bit.
Stuart, your house sounds very close to what we have. We bought our house in September and had no issues with water during the fall or the spring thaw, but here in Chicago it usually rains heavily only once a year – in late April or early/mid May. Our basement was flooded with 4″ of water in May in the first year of ownership due to sewer backup. It continued to flood every single year afterwards in April or May until we paid a pretty penny and hired a plumbing company to install overhead sewer. Our last flood (before the sewer was moved) was horrible – 34 inches of water, ruined our water heater and furnace, damaged washer and dryer, all furniture downstairs was beyond saving and I also learned that Bosch 12v tools are not as tough as Milwaukee – both Bosch PS21 and M12 sawzall drowned, but Milwaukee chooched on after a day of drying with only the battery lost to water damage. Bosch was dead and gone, both battery and the tool.
Are you sure that asbestos tiles will disintegrate under vapor barrier?
I’ve read a lot about properly insulating a basement and my conclusion is to either install a vapor barrier (not a retarder) or install foam panels and seal the seams. Basements in the older houses were designed to “dry inside”, which is completely wrong and requires you to run a dehumidifier 24/7. If you prevent moisture from entering your basement through floor and walls, that space will be much more comfortable. Let concrete soak in water, it’s not going to damage it anyway. However, it’s a different story if asbestos tiles will be destroyed by moisture.
In any case, the plan for my basement is to use a dimpled membrane similar to Delta FL, lay 25 psi foam boards on top [optional] and lay vinyl flooring planks (Allure or Allure Ultra). I used these planks in my shop and they are holding up very well so far.
Please let us know what you decide on!
JMG
I am also of the opinion that waiting a short while would be a good idea if at all possible. Can you verify that there is any back-flow prevention installed?
Four days after purchasing the fixer I am currently living in, there was one of those flash flood grade rain storms and I found myself with up to four inches of water to deal with, and it completely changed the renovation priorities of the entire house, as there was no back flow valve in the main drain and the walls themselves showed a lack of proper sealing.
I also am not a fan of laminate style flooring, probably also due to seeing too many bad installs, but it seems to me that it would not survive well in a moisture prone area.
Benjamen
When I’ve looked into new basement flooring, I thought I remember seeing recommendations that you cover an area with plastic for a few days to see if you get any condensation before putting any kind of moisture barrier.
I don’t know if you’ve had a radon test done, (I think it’s a requirement when you sell a house at least in MN), but if you have any radon issues it’s easier to deal with if the basement is empty.
If you are going to use this area as workspace, or maybe a play area. I’ve found the rubber sports flooring mats are pretty good at stopping stuff small parts from bouncing. If I had to move everything out of my shop for some reason, I think I’d put down the flooring version. As a bonus it’s anti-fatigue and might save that chisel you drop.
One more thing, my uncle just put in heated floors in his basement and they are really really nice. It makes his basement soooooo much more livable, but you need to put something like tile on top.
Stuart
That’ll be hard to do without ripping up tiles.
We had a radon test done, and measured levels were below “actionable.” I have a plug-in radon detector that I’ll use for a winter reading, and will probably hire out a winter test as well. I believe it’s a pretty cheap process.
I figure that the basement will be for storage, and things like low-dust woodworking. Much work will be done in the garage (if it’s affordable I’ll have the electric redone so I can put in an 220V electric heater for winter), and I’ll have an office/workspace upstairs for “cleaner” work, such as electronics work and things like that.
If another play space is needed in the future, I’ll redo the basement at that time as part of a larger remodel.
Marco
Stuart, for your situation I would recommend first making sure your grade around the foundstion slopes well away from the home snd check for cracks in thr foundation. Since you don’t know the history of that basement with moisture I would recommend vinyl planks directly over the exsiting floor with a padding underlayment in between. You only lose 3/8-1/2″ in height.
No plastic barrier as you will trap moisture and rapidly degrade the exsiting floor. In the event of moisture/flooding, the vinyl will be fine. Laminate or the dricore would have to be replaced.
Scott Davis
Our basement is our playroom/tv room/office. I put down pressure treated sleepers over bare concrete floor and 1/2″ t&g plywood. Didn’t want to walk on the concrete. I installed laminate wood floor over the plywood. I bought the flooring at Costco and it has the pad pre installed. I did not install a vapor barrier, even though the instructions called for it. I have had no issues in the 8 years it’s been installed. The basement had signs of water in the past. I sealed the walls before I did anything else. The kids beat this floor up and it still looks like the day I installed. it.
Jay
Sure the floor covering is AB? Installed before 1985? Some states allow you to demo the tile yourself as long as you lift the tiles without breaking them into a lot of little pieces. Soaking the floor with water for a day or two helps quite a bit. I’d find a good abatement company and pay them to take some samples. It’s not that expensive. If the lab report shows the tiles are hot I would be inclined to have the abatement company remove the tile along with any remaining adhesive. The work usually doesn’t take that long to accomplish.
Of course I’m somewhat bias since I worked for an abatement and demolition company for several years.
Once the tile is gone I’d acid stain the cc floor and call it good, depending on intended use.
Robert
I finished a basement in a home a few years ago, used the dri core, we only lived there a couple years, worked great while there. They sell it as a roll of the plastic material too and you buy the osb separate. It is cheaper that way.
I put carpet on top.
Kyle
Might not work in your situation but at my last place I installed 1″ foam and two layers of 1/2″ plywood perpendicular to each other. Carpet over that. It was very warm but did lose the 1″ of head room.
mnoswad
Paint your floor.
Mop with floor stripper to remove wax finishes etc, mop again with tsp substitute, mop and wet vac one last time……… then paint the floor with oil based floor paint. But i think you’re in the east coast, oil porch and floor paint cant be had due to VOC regulations, so use rustoleum industrial or a DTM paint. But it has to be oil based and has to be satin or shinier for ease of wipeupability and scuff resistance.
First though, you can pry up a tile and collect a sample and send it off for testing.
And I hope thats a DE-humidifier………NOT a humidifier in your basement. unless your talking about a whole house humidifier attached to your forced air furnace.
Stuart
Oops – yes, a dehumidifer.
Well, there’s already a sample I could collect to send in. 2 months ago a pest control guy dropped a sticky trap right on a tile, on a second visit another guy tried to pry it off, and on the third visit another guy got it stuck to his shoe, ripped it up, and broke it in a few pieces.
One of these days I’ll need to replace that tile (or use self-leveling cement) to patch the spot before covering it.
Blythe M
One of my customers just put vinyl plank and padding down over bare concrete and I was surprised how well it turned out. She did it herself in a few days, looks and feels pretty nice.
Bob dobalina
I have polyurethane-sealed DriCore on an old garage floor. It was cheap and easy. And it is holding up well after three years of dirt, thermal cycling, water, and general abuse. Don’t rule it out unless it offends your aesthetic.
Tyler
I’ll second (or third or fourth) the epoxy. Aside from that, I’ll be reading these comments for ideas. The vapor barrier/moisture/air movement conundrum is a complex one, maybe there’s no single answer to it.
Although the duct might be inconvenient, I believe that the building code for finished ceiling height allows suspended ductwork that falls well below the minimum general ceiling height.
Chris
I used DriCore as a subfloor over our concrete basement floor. Ours is an older (but not OLD) house so the slab doesnt have a vapor barrier or insulation underneath it.
We had a few water oopsies and wanted to put carpet in the basement (for warmth and comfort of playing on top of) so the DriCore was mainly to give us some wiggle room if we did get water again.
Since then we’ve had a sump system added, which entailed removing some of the DriCore to make way for the interior drainage.
Overall I love the DriCore….it reduces the cold on your feet feeling, gives peace of mine if you do happen to get some water, etc.
However! If I were to do it all over again, I would go with plywood and something like MiraDrain or DeltaFL. Its basically the same thing as DriCore except you plop the membrane down in sheets (4′ or 5′ wide x as long as you need it) then you drop plywood on top of it. Its MUCH easier to do a large area and it also ensures you have a perfect seal between strips. DriCore is T&G so the seal isnt perfect at each board.
Derek
If you are looking to cover the tiles to prevent damage and want to buy time to look for moisture or other ideas, you could use vinyl sheet. It is generally 12-13 ft wide and <$2/sqft even for the good quality stuff. Some of it comes with padding built in which also makes it warmer. The sheet is easy to install if it is a wide open area. It should last 5-10 years in a shop. However I'd recommend against any sort of vinyl if you have big machines that you need to drag around that don't have rollers. It's too easy to dig in a machine foot and tear it.
I have luxury vinyl plank by armstrong in my bathroom and I'm really happy with it. It has the adhesive edges and otherwise floats. Mine is upstairs with no moisture issues
Steve
I don’t understand why not bite the bullet and rip it out yourself using the appropriate safety gear & respirator as well as keeping the enviornment damp temporarily while you do it to keep the dust down and bag it as the disposal spec in your local area dictates. When you try to sell your house any mention of asbestos is going to freak people out even if it’s encapsulated. Better to remove it IMO. You’re not going to develop mesothelioma from one encounter with the stuff if you clean up properly, wear proper gear and take precautions.
Steve
The only kind of asbestos I wouldn’t want to remove safely vs encapsulating it is asbestos siding because it has such amazing longevity. The lower maintenance costs of a home with asbestos siding in my mind offset the issue it creates when trying to sell your home. Asbestos siding is a magical product that lasts F-O-R-E-V-E-R as long as nothing slams into it and cracks it. By now most of it is already encapsulated lots of coats of paint.