I don’t know about you, but I buy most of my tools online. For planned out purchases, shopping online offers greater selection, sometimes better prices, and although it sounds backwards I usually receive my online orders quicker than I could make a trip to the right store.
But there are certain things that it makes more sense to buy in stores. Dropcloths. Adhesives (although I do buy wood glue and specialty adhesives online). Paint. Power tool accessories such as saw blades, drill bits, sandpaper, router bits, and other such stuff when I need a certain size or style on short notice.
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Usually, I just head to a home center, where I will typically see contractors, tradesmen, and other professional users going in and out of the store. Home improvement centers, such as Home Depot and Lowes, have “pro corners” and counters, and as mentioned in last year’s post about Lowes’ trial delivery program, professional users contribute to a large percentage of sales.
But some professionals I know steer clear of home centers.
I recently had a conversation with a general contractor, who told me about how he won’t shop at a particular home center because of bad tool experiences. He purchased a definitely pro-grade tool, and it broke within a short time. They replaced it, and the replacement broke.
The contractor noticed that the part number was different for the home center tool, compared to the part number for the same tool sold at a local independent supplier. With similar packaging, one possible explanation was that the home center tool was different in some way, possibly making it cheaper and of lesser quality.
I have heard similar stories and unverified claims that home center tools, equipment, supplies, or fixtures might be different from those sold at supply houses and independent shops. It’s possible, although I don’t think I’ve ever seen proof.
The only complaint I have heard about independent suppliers is that their prices tend to be a little higher.
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But you know what? The more I think about it, the more I think that independent shops and supply houses are the way to go.
I stopped by at a new one yesterday, and saw a couple of hand tools and power tool accessories that I had never seen at Home Depot, Lowes, Sears, or any other big box home improvement store before. I had seen them online before, but in stores. I had my wife and “I wanna run around and touch EVERYTHING” son with me, and so I plan to go back, solo, the next time I can.
Shown above is the Lutz ratcheting screwdriver display (I briefly wrote about these Lutz drivers years ago). Since then, I bought one or two online, but had never seen them in stores. The reader that wrote in about them found them at Ace Hardware, but there isn’t one around here.
My father always used to go to the local Ace-affiliated independent supplier, because it was close by and they almost always had what he needed. I bet they had good answers to his questions, too. I shopped there a few times in high school too, for the randomest things.
He also used to go to plumbing supply shops for things like faucet washers and the such, and because of that he only did plumbing repairs on Saturdays when the plumbing supply shop was guaranteed to be open.
There are Home Depot and Lowes where I grew up, but they weren’t really close by, although a new Lowes opened near the mall that’s pretty awesome. But… I suppose they’re not the best place for when you need a particular size washer, a certain plumbing fitting, advice about which primer to use, or a substitute for something you might need that’s not on the shelf… and things like that.
Tool selection also tends to be limited, as home centers have their own brand relationships.
So my question to you is this:
Big Box Home Center or Independent Supplier?
For those of you that buy at both, what kinds of tools, equipment, supplies, etc. would you buy at one and not the other?
mike
What’s an independent store? 🙂
Seriously, I can’t remember the last time I saw one in suburban US areas.
adam
I’m cheap, so I will always swing by the clearance endcaps @ HD, or use coupons which can’t always be done online. I have bought more tools in store lately than online, but that seems unusual for me. I know I have put in more time online researching what I will be buying in store.
I will stop into smaller independent stores when I am shopping more for the advice, rather than the part. They seem to have more hands on knowledge than a majority of HD/Lowes associated (though I do know now who to ask and not to ask when I’m in HD).
Justin
The guys at Grainger always said their Dewalt tools were better than big box Dewalt’s due to metal gearing instead of the plastic gearing. They never could provide proof, and outside of the price being a lot higher, everything (including model numbers) were the same.
As far as purchasing, I enjoyed using the larger independent suppliers much more. Once my old company got big enough to deal with the mid-level suppliers, our customer support experience went through the roof. Deliveries were accurate and on time, special orders took days not weeks, any errors were addressed immediately and with our schedule in mind (no ‘sorry, but there’s no manager here than can approve that’ or ‘our driver only works certain days’). There was also the benefit of adding employees as users who could just go in and pick stuff up without a big hassle of handing out credit cards for them to lose. Also, like you, I found the tool selection in specialty suppliers to contain a lot wider of a variety of tools related to their specialty.
Sometimes though, its hard to beat the big box store’s location, (especially in the Chicago area, they are everywhere). If you forgot one little thing, its a lot easier to just find the nearest place and get it.
Wayne R.
Chicago’s got Berland’s House of Tools, one of my most favorite places of all. Time (and money) goes fast in that candy store.
Sean
Unfortunately, I’m not familiar with a lot of independent stores around here, but I’ve been meaning to familiarize myself with some and try to shop there. I also love reading your articles about these exotic woodworking tools and accessories and try to do a little research on some of the associated websites. However, I very rarely ever purchase from any of them. I’ll occasionally order something online that could also be picked up from one of the big box stores. For example, I recently purchased the M12 vacuum from one. I used to think “I’d rather purchase directly at HD because if I need to return it for some reason, I’m pretty confident it would be no hassle.” I’m just not sure of the online return process and whether it’s one extra steps that makes me procrastinate the task. Lately I’ve realized that I rarely need to (or want to) return these type of purchases. I considered buying that vacuum for a good 6 months before I finally pulled the trigger.
If I need a faucet washer or some single item, I generally run to an Ace Hardware affiliated place.
If I just want to blow some money on crap I really don’t need, I’ll go to Harbor Freight and walk out with some very random stuff. I don’t go there to buy tools, typically. It is usually some sort of consumable or gimmicky thing.
If I’m just wanting to stare at tools and see what’s new, I like to go to HD and Lowes. I then soak it all it and kind of think of what I really want. If I still remember it 2 days after having been in the store, it might be something I actually need or want. Usually, I think “man, I need these 5 items!” but when I walk out the door and I can’t even remember what 4 of those 5 items were.
HD has more of the brands I prefer (with power tools and hand tools) when compared to Lowes, unfortunately. I really despise that exclusive-brand game the two are playing, and it’s probably the main reason I tend to avoid both. I feel that HD started it, regardless of whether I’m correct. However, I can’t really complain about the service at either: never had issues with refunds and the staff is at least friendly. Most of them aren’t especially knowledgeable, I don’t make buying decisions based on the staff or attempt to seek out any “fix-it tips”, usually. In the end, I’ve probably given both of those stores more money than I’ve given any others, and I’m going to try to be more aware of who is getting how much $.
Hugh
I use both, I bought my table saw and miter saw at the big box stores. I buy power tools drills, sawzall etc at big box stores.
I buy specialty tools from the local tool stores multi-tool blades, festool tools, specialty bits, starette products. So all the fine woodworking products, I go to local stores for. I do enjoy the local stores sales peoples’ knowledge of tools at lot more than the big box places as well.
Tator
Hartville hardware has everything you could ever want or need! They are affiliated with Hartville tool.
Paul
+1 for Hartville Hardware. There are some very specialty woodworking tools that are not available (such as those countersinks with depth stops that was posted about last week) but their people know their stuff!
Mark S.
Same goes for Rockler – been to two of their stores (Phoenix and Pittsburgh), every worker knew their stuff very well. Where would I find Hartville Hardware?
Tator
Hartville, Ohio
Clark
The area I live in has the best hardware store I have had the pleasure of using. They carry high grade power tools, hand tools and precision measuring equipment along with Wright sockets and wrenches. They supply U.S. sourced drill bits, hole saws and saw blades along side better grade wood cutting tools. They provide some machine tool equipment, spray equipment, specialty fasteners and parts for plumbing electrical and whatever spanning a good portion of the last 75 years or so.
box stores are for materials and consumables.
Dean
Where ever I can get it cheapest.. I’ve bought a ton from Home Depot, Amazon and acmetools.com. If prices are similar to local, I always buy local for the convenience of being able to return an item easily if needed and to just help out the local guy.
BikerDad
Yes. I purchase at the big box stores, through online generalists, online speciality stores, local independent generalists, and local specialty stores. Which I choose depends on what I’m getting, how much I’m getting, how quickly I need it, who actually has it, whether or not I need advice, etc.
What I haven’t managed to do yet is find a really good industrial hardware store here, comparable to McFadden-Dale in Las Vegas. Grainger, McMaster-Carr and such, if I can find them, are oriented to serving industrial suppliers, not the random guy who walks in from the street needing more than Ace or a big box can provide. McFadden-Dale wasn’t like that.
Scott
I generally prefer Amazon when I know exactly what I want and don’t need it now. However, as a new homeowner many recent projects have been spur of the moment, and so the 15 minute drive to Home Depot has been quicker than Amazon. I like buying supplies in person because I think it’s safe to assume the stores have weeded out a lot of the crap that you can find online. I have also come to prefer Home Depot to Lowes due to my experiences with employees and Home Depot’s larger brand selection.
I recently went to a Do It Best hardware store, that I never knew existed, after getting a coupon in the mail. I needed a bunch of stuff to repair a drywall ceiling and the three people I spoke with (about various projects) were very helpful and knowledgable. I will be back the next time I want to accomplish something I have no experience with. I noticed that some of the cheaper tools were more expensive than those at Home Depot.
Nate 818
We have so many options in L A. As I’m sure you do in Chicago, New York etc. Seeing all the different stores makes me loathe the independent stores because of price. They are a necessary evil when you need something odd. I’m at 80% box store 10% smaller stores and 10% Craigslist.
Fran Tark
The bigger the purchase, the more likely I am to go with an independent local. There’s very rarely a sale on powermatic, jet, Laguna tools so I’d rather work with the “little” guy. Shipping on big machines is scary!
I spend more time looking in lowes and HD than purchasing things other than paint and consumables.
For many of my tools, I can’t tell you how many I have gotten at estate sales and at auctions. Starrett squares for $5…. Mitutoyo calipers for $3…. And who knows how many board feet of hardwood lumber for pennies….
Ed
I buy a lot online, but I do buy from the big box stores if they have what I am looking for. The independent suppliers should never be overlooked , they typically run monthly or quarterly specials which can be hard to beat even online. They also have promotions such as Milwaukee Fuel trade ins.
Adam
Coming over to US 4-6 times a year, for me it’s Amazon or official eBay resellers only.
When you can pick up Dewalt 20v Max (equivalent to our 18v XR range) bare tools and batteries for 50-60% of the UK price, it’s stupid not to.
Pretty much exhausted the current Dewalt 20v range. Going to move on to selected (non-Dewalt) hand tools next.
Jay
Local semi big box (regional non nation wide chain)does not carry much in the way of cordless Makita tools so buy those online. Locally, Porter-Cable, DeWalt and Master Mechanic fill the shelves. On rare occasions a Milwaukee tool will show up, some new some reconditioned.
Been using yellow tools for years and years and have grown tired of looking at them. Switching over so I can look at some blue tools for a while. Everything else comes from whoever is closest at the time be it a mom and pop hardware, chain hdwr, or local semi big box.
Closest actual big box is a couple hundred miles away.
Just as an aside, really liking these new cordless blue tools. Smaller, lighter, faster and more powerful than my admittedly ancient cordless yellow tools.
T
Indies, as much as possible. Bigbox cant have a relationship with you.
Jerry
Very fortunate to have a good independant local place. They sell USA made driver bits that carry an unlimited lifetime warranty! Where else Dan you get that? Free replacement if they break, chip, or even just wear out. They also carry the best darn drill bits I ever used, as well. They are mostly hand tools/accessories and consumables like saw blades, grinder wheels, etc. power tools are pretty much ordered in, with almost none on hand, but pricing is fair, and service is second to none. They will let me but stuff on credit, and don’t even have to ask my name. Not sure if their service is that good, or if I just go there that often, LOL.
Small family run place, operated by a father, his two grown children, and one hired helper.
Eric
I’ve seen the different versions of Dewalt drills. We bought a drill from a big box store and shortly after the warranty ran out the thing quit working. The plastic gears had stripped out. Their repair guy said he saw it on a pretty regular basis. He replaced them with metal gears and it has now been going strong for several years. It doesn’t really surprise me, it’s just like all of the “special” products that get made for Wal-mart to meet the price Wal-mart sets.
Vaheh
Your comment about seeing stuff than hd or lowes didn’t have was cute. As one of the “little guys” we have actual contractor tools and not tools some contractors use. There are tons of things we have that you won’t find at hd. You must remember the big box stores cater to the masses, you need to go to a specialty shop for all of the real goodies. I can use a hundred examples but I will add that hd dictates prices they will pay due to their buying power and some companies are forced to manufacture within those constraints. I know certain brands won’t sell to hd because every year they demand a lower price and that entails a compromise on quality. I have contractors who refuse to shop at bb stores. Regarding online purchases, what do you do when you need service on that power tool? What about warranty issues? What if the magnets fall out on your stabila torpedo? Also amazon will take a loss on certain items creating the illusion that the small guys are ripping you off whereas in fact their algorithm tells them it’s cheaper to sell a not hugely popular item for a loss rather than sit on it in the warehouse. It really is a complex dilemma but think of the small shop as a barber shop where guys come together and talk about tools. Of course there are bad seeds among the little guys as well but you’ll know when you enter one of those shops. It’s like Cheers where everybody knows your name.
Blythe M
Depends what I’m after, really comes down to exploring your area. One of our Lowes has a guy in electrical that knows a everything, the other lowes has the a better organized clearance section in all departments,, so I go there to browse. Menards has the best weekly sales. Use a local shop for tool repair. For building supplies, the independent guys are light years ahead in quality. For $0.10 more per board they are almost always strait and relatively knot and defect free
Chris Fyfe
Big box stores , and industrial supplies . On line takes way too much lead time for me .
Chris
Brian V
It depends on what I’m buying and how much time I have. I really like the service at my two local shops, both have been in business for about 100 years. I’ll support them whenever I can as I don’t want to see them go away. Between the two of them if they don’t have something and don’t know where to send you it probably isn’t made. When I need wood or other supplies I’ll look at HD first as I have one about a mile away. There are things that I won’t buy at HD. The sandpaper is rubbish. I think it is Diablo, it is the only brand they carry. I have in mind to build a workshop shed in the next year and I’ll buy my wood from a wood specialty store.
Tom
There just aren’t that many independent hardware stores around me anymore. I did recently find one though. It has been open for over 100 years and was amazing. Two floors with a big old staircase up the middle. You could buy nails by the pound, scooping them from old wooden bins that our grandfathers could have used.
At least five earnest looking people came up to me, asking if I needed help finding anything. I just really wanted to walk around and see what they had. Finally, I needed help, asking if they could find me some work gloves for my four year old. They led me right over to a pair of leather gloves with fleece lining that were just the right size. I don’t think that I would have found those in a big box store.
There is something great and fun about these old stores, but for me, they are often out of the way. The one that I found was in a rougher neighborhood on the other side of town that I never have a need to go to. I drive by two Home Depots and a Lowes on my way to work. So when I need some wood glue, they are probably my go to place. That being said, there is nothing exciting about going from one Home Depot to the next. No sense of wonder, history, or discovery. And when I do need help at a big box store, rarely do I get a credible answer.
Toolfreak
I generally shop the local big box stores since they are pretty close, but will usually buy online if the price is that much lower or it’s something new.
There are only a few smaller hardware stores around that carry tools, so it’s pretty limited what I can get from them. Some of them refuse to sell anything at less than full price, so they have power tools that are 10+ years old. I’ve tried explaning to them that the batteries in the cordless tools are probably dead by now and they could free up shelf space to sell newer tools by discounting the old outdated stuff, but they refuse.
What I have found is there are some supply stores that cater to the pros, and these are where to go for the parts and brands that big box stores don’t have. I needed a particular drain stopper for the sink. It was apparently discontinued and only available in an expensive drain kit, but found it online at a supply chain that had a local store. It was shipped to the store for free, I went to pick it up, and found where I probably should have been going to a lot of plumbling supplies all this time. I’ve found the same for specialty building supplies and even auto body supplies. You can generally find a smaller place that sells the professional-level stuff if you look hard enough, or ask around.
JayT
Prefer locally owned, independent stores whenever possible.
For all those people saying they don’t have independent stores around any more. Where do you live? I hope everyone realizes that True Value and Ace stores are all independently owned . The “branding” is the buying cooperative they belong to in order to get better pricing, but the stores themselves are privately owned, independent businesses.
Mike
Ace actually owns many of the stores now. After the Westlake chain became large Ace bought them out. I’m not sure how far out Westlake reaches but they are big in the Midwest.
JayT
Yes, good point. The 80+ Westlake stores are now owned by Ace corporate office. There are rumblings that Ace would like to get away from the co-op model and go to all corporate owned stores. Outside of Westlake, it hasn’t happened, yet, but will be interesting to see how everything shakes out over the next few years. They were headed that direction when the $150 million accounting error was discovered several years ago and derailed their plans.
will
independent stores is what I prefer but they usually close before I get off work so sometimes I really have no choice but to go to Lowes ( no HD here, for some reason they closed within a year, I really wish it was Lowes that lost the comp) . Not only does my local acmetools have Festool,Fein,dewalt,milwaukee, hitachi,stihl ,etc etc etc the service is on another level compared to lowes. The prices aren’t that much more if at all and they actually know about the tools they sell!
Tim B.
Definitely tough to find local independent stores. “Specialty” stores (like Rockler and smaller chain stores) are often my go-to. We have a regional chain (McLendon’s Hardware — family owned, about 6 stores all within a ~50 mile radius ) which is usually my initial go-to vs the “big box” stores.
My pecking order is as follows:
1. Do I have time to wait at least a day or so? If yes, order online. If no, go to McLendon’s.
2. Do I need specialized knowledge or recommendations? Research online — and then, based on #1, either order online or (more often than not) go to McLendon’s. Most every department has multiple highly knowledgeable employees – often retirees from the respective trade! – working there. First hand advise and the chance to pick their brains is a great boon when you are not absolutely certain what you want.
3. Is price the *ultimate* concern for a purchase? Again, based on #1.. Either order online, or in this case, buy at the big-box store due to price (and the fact that some of the big box stores pricematch).
My one exception to the above would be if I am buying something which I have more than a small expectation that I might be returning, I will often go to the “big box” store due to easier policies for returns, and knowing that it doesn’t hurt them nearly as much as it hurts the small regional chain. That may sound rather crass, but if someone is going to lose out profitability at my expense, I’d rather it be one of the big box stores…
jesse
I own the Lutz screwdriver shown at the top of the page. They’re very good quality.
pete
Usually I buy at big box stores simply because they usually have what I need and for a good price. I ‘could’ buy at a specialty store like McFadden dales or copper state but they are usually 30% above big box price always while I like to support them and I indeed do for other needs it is not where I would like to buy general tools. Obviously if I need specialty tools I have to go to a specialty store or order online so that takes that question out of the question anyways.
I would love to support a smaller store but I can’t justify it when I’m paying that much of an extra price.
Jim D
I work at an independent dealer, Bay Verte Machinery, and we have been open for 100 years. It is important that the dealer is will to go the extra mile. Here we have a best price guarantee that we will beat any price, even from Amazon and Ebay. Plus our only location is in Wisconsin so if you are out of state and order then do not pay tax.
Patrick
Rheem water heaters sold at Home Depot are completely different than models sold at plumbing supply house. The Rheem rep I talked to said the models sold at Home Depot are quite inferior to those sold at supply houses. Most of the internal parts, that can’t be seen, are made from brass and other such metals are substituted for plastic parts on home depot model water heaters…
I’m a NJ Master HVAC/R technician so I come across a lot of issues with appliances,and other home HVAC/R products, and that fail prematurely then similar products that came from professional supply houses.
I worked for a Gov’t employee who deals with homelands security. They were testing pipe bombs made with black gas pipe products found at local big box stores and other distributors. They found that pipe bombs made using gas pipe sold at Home Depot didn’t meet UL specs and failed far sooner than pipe bought from professional supply houses.
Chinese gas pipe have a lot of “sand hole” leaks in fittings and the wall strength of pipe and fittings did not come close to what is specified for the particular pipes are required to meet. Moral of my rant… Don’t buy any gas pipe or fittings from Home Depot. They are Chinese made and don’t meet the specified rating listed on the pipe/fittings.
Their are reasons why certain products that were once only sold at professional supply house are now sold at Home Depot, and other big box stores, for much less. just compare the manufacturers part number for the Home Depot tool vs the part number in the manufacturers catalog. They aren’t the same..as is the quality. This isn’t for all the tools but the more expensive ones are usually different to keep costs down.
Buyer beware… and DIY’er be extra careful. do your research before doing any major projects that if not properly completed with quality parts could cost you more than just $, but your life as well.
Cheers