Can a cordless impact driver be used for lug nut removal? I’ve been asked this question a couple of time via email, and have seen it asked in reader comments as well.
Technically, the answer is yes. Realistically, the answer is no.
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A quick glance at a lug nut torque chart shows that most lug nuts should be torqued between 80 and 100 ft-lbs. Some require less torque, others more. But for the purpose of this discussion, let’s say that a lug nut must be torqued to 100 ft-lbs.
100 ft-lbs is the same as 1200 in-lbs.
Many 18V-class impact drivers can achieve this torque, and Milwaukee’s M12 Fuel impact driver tops out at 1200 in-lbs.
Read Also: Which Cordless Impact Wrench to Remove Lug Nuts?
But does this mean that these impact drivers can remove lug nuts for tire removal? No. Here’s why:
Lug nuts can become stuck, or frozen.
Lug nuts can become rusted.
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Lug nuts might have been over-tightened during previous servicing.
If you tighten a lug nut to 100 ft-lbs, you should be able to immediately remove it using a tool that can deliver 100 ft-lbs of torque. There are some factors that might make this untrue, but under ideal conditions, a fastener tightened to a certain torque should require similar torque for removal.
But time and environmental conditions often require that a lot more torque be used.
So while you can remove lug nuts with an impact driver, it might not be the best idea to buy one with that in mind for its primary purpose. You might sometimes, or even occasionally, need something more powerful to break stubborn lug nuts free.
What about a compact impact wrench?
A number of brands offer cordless impact drivers, compact impact wrenches, and heavy duty impact wrenches. Impact wrenches, even compact ones, are usually more powerful than impact drivers.
Milwaukee’s M18 Fuel line, for example, are fairly powerful and capable of delivering 210 to 220 ft lbs of torque.
You should be able to remove even stubborn lug nuts with more powerful compact impact wrenches, but there are times when heavy duty impact wrenches are better choices. Even if a compact impact can get the job done, a heavy duty impact can be faster.
Consider this analogy: Let’s say you give a toddler a toy, treat, or something else they find desirable. Then try to take it away. Takes a lot more effort, doesn’t it?
What do you use for removing lug nuts? Have you ever tried using an impact driver with socket adapter?
Tim
I use a breaker bar to loosen, and an impact with socket adapter to spin them off and on.
fm2176
I used to do the same. It beats using a socket or lug wrench. Then I bought a Lovely impact wrench from a friend. It stays in the truck and has already proven useful away from home–when I needed to replaced my brake pads and rotors while attending Drill Sergeant School a couple of months ago.
bobbyj
That can’t be true because places like discount tire use impact wrenches to change or rotate tires. I’ve never had a broken lug in 40+ years or ever. Nice wives tale you have there.
Sherwin Wilson
That is true because you take it to the same shop where they torque it at the same and correct number. Which must likely is between 75-110. Which I’m case is at or around the 100 ft lbs of torque. If you where to take it to any and everywhere those bolts may not be as easy to remove.
Shawn
I always loosen all my lugs when I get home and re-torque. Also add a little antiseize.
Ken
I think you need to read that article again. You seem to be confused.
Impact drivers and impact wrenches are two very different things. They’ve got similar functions and operation, but are two completely different animals.
Your tire shop does not use an impact driver for your wheels.
NICOLE M WOODS
Just had my tires rotated last week. I watched the guy use a cordless drill to take off the lug nuts. What did he use? I asked. It was a Milwaukee impact driver.
Vincent
The guy at the repair shop used an impact wrench to remove and tighten my lug nuts and he broke the caps on all five lug nuts on one wheel and two lug nuts on the other wheel in the front. I didn’t find out about it until the next day when I was cleaning the wheels. He Didn’t even tell me about it.
T Luke
You can easily take them off with 1, but they shouldnt be torqued down with one thats a good way to make a lot of mistakes
Jeremie
it is absolutely true that an impact gun at a shop can damage the bolts to a point of failure. ive seen it personally more than once. You have been lucky and maybe the particular individual doing your wheels had enough experience to get them close enough to the proper specs or maybe you did not notice that they finished them with a torque wrench.
Tom
Big difference in air impact and battery
Charles howell
My Dewalt air impact has 650 ft/lbs but my new Milwaukee m18 cordless ( not air ) and it has 1400 ft/lbs. So I disagree.
Ken Gibson
Air impact wrenches can over torque and even shear lugs off
Pete
This would be the correct way to get the job done. Using an impact anything to tighten the lug nuts back on can stretch and fracture the lug studs causing them to break basically 100% of the time while driving. They may not break all at once but with some time and large pot holes it will happen.
Nitrospacelobster
…um…no. That’s not how that works. Impacts don’t fracture wheel studs. Over-torquing will stretch them beyond their limit, potentially causing failure. It doesn’t matter what tool you use to get there.
Jon
But you have precious little control over torque with an impact gun. This is a serious problem, especially at discount shops with very poorly trained techs.
No, it doesn’t matter what tool you use to get there, overtorquing any bolt will cause it to fail (even if the failure is not immediately apparent). That’s textbook fastener theroy. But what actually happens in the real world is usually precisely as Pete said.
Wristy
That’s why any professional should use a torque bar with any rattle gun.
You don’t know what you’re talking about.
DJ
You are correct and the people saying you don’t know what you’re speaking of is wrong. Hand torque wrench is the only way to ensure exact lbs without overtorquing. Cheating is lazy and dangerous. And the other moron who knows it all doesn’t realize the acorn covers is probably what the dude is referring to. They break easily and are for looks as they cover the nut. Backyard training obviously
Mo
My Dewalt DCF923 has a torque setting where as soon as it senses resistance it pauses for a second. This allows you to tighten just enough with the impact wrench, and finish the job with a torque wrench. Alot of the newer model impact wrenches now have this feature.
Robert Bradley
26 years pulling wheels off trucks & cars as a front end & brake tech demonstrated for me at least, that rust, corrosion and improper installation of lug nuts caused wheel stud failure…especially over-torquing. Broken studs most always came from shearing the stud off with a good 1/2 in impact.
Jim Fink
So what drill should I purchase? I have a 756 bobcat, a utility bobcat 4 wheeler, 3 trailers and a GMC Van and 2005 Ford full size. I have had to remove two tires off of the bobcat and I had 4 to 6 hours in muscling the 1″ socket and reg handle ratchet…I bounced up and down to get the nut s loose….the second time…notta will no budge! PLEASE help
Tony P
Purchase a 18″ to 36″ of pipe from a hardware store and put it on the end of your breaker bar to to loosen the nut initially. Works great. Then use you impact driver or wrench to remove all the way.
Jerry
Try spraying the lugs with penetrating oil
Shawn
You don’t need a drill. You need an impact wrench 1/2 drive preferably. One that has atheist 150 ft lbs of reverse torque. Secondly, removing the lugs you would first jack the vehicle up to desired hight. Remove lugs change tire. Start threads by hand. Start running the lugs in slowly until the wheels completely seated to the hub. Now, this is IMPORTANT, lower the vehicle just enough to “kiss” the ground and continue to snug them up. After that is done, lower the vehicle all the way down and give each one a couple more hits with the impact. Lastly, ASAP, have said lugnuts torqued to specification. I know this because I have changed at LEAST 20,000 tires in shops in the past.
Travis
For the longest time, I did the same. I broke the lug nuts loose with a breaker bar and then used my Bosch 12v PS41 impact with 1/4″ hex to 1/2″ adapter to finish removing the slightly loosened lug nuts. This worked great, every time.
I also used the same Bosch 12v PS41 to tighten the lug nuts after I hand threaded them on. When the impact maxed out its impact power of setting the lug nuts I then took out my torque wrench and properly torqued my wheels to the manufacturers specs of 85 ft/lbs.
I sure hope people on here are final torqueing the lug nuts to spec and not just ramming them down as tight as possible.
*former custom automotive shop manager and race team jockey.
DJ
Thank God for folks like you who know what they are talking about!
Matt
I do the exact same thing, Travis. Even the same gun. It works great and is way quicker than even a speed bar for getting the lugs ready for torquing.
I would love to add an impact wrench for removal, but it hasn’t happened yet. Still trying to transition from 18v Dewalt to something lithium ion powered (likely Ridgid), so that’s the current tool priority. Just waiting for a craigslist buyer to want my old stuff…
Bob Uncle
A torque multiplier is good for the super high torque jobs.
CZAZ
My Milwaukee 1/4″ impact works great on my 2500 and tractors. It’s rated at 1400 in-lb which is roughly 142 ft-lb. I use 1/4 to 1/2 adapter. I have never had to use a breaker bar. Keeps it set up with socket in the truck – priceless. Great for metal roofing selt-drilling screws and lots of other chores.
Bob
Ingersoll Rand w7150
http://www.ingersollrandproducts.com/am-en/products/tools/Iqv-cordless-tools/iqv20/w7150-1-2-20v-high-torque-impactool
Joren
That’s what I use on cars, trucks, and machinery
Doug
Ingersol 7150 20v use in all my shops same gun has now removed over 21000 wheels yes thats right 21k and still going strong.
Mike
You certainly CAN remove lug nuts with a cordless impact driver or wrench. Should you? Not on a regular basis. You’re stressing a tool beyond its intended use. These big numbers the tool manufacturers publish are maximum ratings and continuous use at those levels punishes the clutch system. The pin clutches used on most cordless impacts wear fast when pushed that hard.
I’m lazy and use a twin hammer pneumatic impact wrench to remove lug nuts. It’s fast and easy and I don’t have to expend any effort. Any compressor of decent size can run one as long as you don’t go crazy with the duty cycle.
Paul
Impact drivers don’t have a clutch.
Milwaukee tool Steve
Yes Stuart I have used impact drivers to remove lug nuts and even place them in, but as you said sometimes 1200 in-lb’s isn’t enough to remove the ones that have been tighten a little to much or the really really rusty one’s that practically fall to pieces when you try to remove them. but the impact wrenches solve the problem of over tightening your lags and trying to remove them, but if not I give it a little elbow grease on those really really rusty ones.
Nathan
My M18 FUEL (Gen 1) 3/8″ impact wrench hasn’t had any problems with lug nut removal. Specs say it maxes out at 220 ft. lbs.
I throw it in the trunk before every roadtrip too.
RX9
The impact *wrench* is certainly up to the job, but we’re talking about the impact *driver* here.
Jason B Yeckel
I own both and yes they do it easy. Most of my Toyota are only 87 ft/lb
Mike Schiotis
I just tried to remove lugs from my trailer tire using my brand new, never used heavy duty M18 1/2 inch drive impact wrench which says right on the box 1,400 lbs of nut busting torque. What am I doing wrong.
I took my breaker bar and loosened them up no problem.
Could it be tbe nuts wher over torqued or that they have not been removed for a year and have seated themselves beyond the wrenches capabilities.
Thank you for your insight in advance
Joe
Torque aside, it was my understanding that impact drivers exerted downward force and rotational force, where impact wrenches only exerted rotational force. Also, that the downward force of the impact driver could damage the threads if used on a nut/bolt where the threads interlock.
Is this incorrect?
Pete
No downward force is exerted by an impact driver otherthan the operator pushing down. It operates essentially just like a impact wrench.
I think your thinking of a hammer drill.
Eddie
You are incorrect. Impact driver use both bit rotation and concussive blows (i.e. downward force) to power-drive screws.
Stuart
Technically, yes, there are rotational and downwards components to the impact motion.
Stuart
My understanding is that impact driver impulses are entirely rotational.
There shouldn’t be any downward forces.
Pete
I don’t believe this is true. While most of the additional force is rotational, there is some force applied by the spring perpendicular to the rotation. The spring is moving the impacting assembly forward, that force can’t all turned into rotational force. This slow-motion video seems to explain it fairly well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0gSJa3L_7c
Jason B Yeckel
Ok this might just be more way to “skin a cat” thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiXYXV503zw
Joe
-Different Joe here. Not the OP-
Cordless drills do hammer down and rotational as Pete pointed out. I took apart my dewalt impact wrench years back and the hammer has a spring in the center….Here’s a cool video of it in action…
https://youtu.be/qFHfVknW-EI
Having said that, I took apart my *air impact* and the hammering mechanism is a different design and does not have a spring so there is no perpendicular hammering at all. It’s all rotational.
On a similar note, I was trying to remove my truck’s rotor bearings with a breaker bar with a tube extension and no luck. The breaker bar was bending like crazy. So I told my buddy to hit the breaker bar on it’s head with a sledge hammer, after a few hits, it finally gave.
fred
Maybe one of these would have done it:
http://www.tooldiscounter.com/ItemDisplay.cfm?lookup=TTN12049&source=froogle&kw=TTN12049&gclid=CIvdp_GstMwCFQcfhgodfagITg
Joe
“Maybe one of these would have done it:”
That’s some serious power handling. Thanks for the link.
Joe
-Different Joe here. Not the OP-
For curiosity sake, this Makita impact has a different hammering mechanism…
https://youtu.be/fZYuZleF_bs?t=33s
Mike
This seems to be a confusing topic, hopefully I can sort this out…(using American wording and referring to electric-style impact drivers) nearly ALL of the force is rotational. Yes there is an internal spring that is compressed and released, typically twice per second I think, the perpendicular force released from the spring is mostly absorbed within the impact chamber internally. There is no direct or deliberate transfer of perpendicular force on the chuck itself. Any perpendicular forces are indirect, incidental, and not of any noteworthy significance relative to fastening ability or work output. Hammer drills and rotary hammers(distinct and separate tools altogether) are a different story, of course.
Mike
Correction: twice per ROTATION, not second. Much faster than 2/sec.
Nathan
Mike, you are absolutely right. I can’t believe how many times the argument of how an impact driver is supposed to function like a hammer drill has come up on various power tool forums and websites I visit.
Looking at the cutaway YouTube video linked above, it’s obvious that the impact chamber is absorbing the downward force – there’s a washer or bushing right below the anvil that prevents it from applying downward force on the shaft.
The facepalm moment here is that proponents of the “downward hammering impact driver functionality” are assuming a tool meant for driving threaded fasteners is hammering the head for some reason. I wonder if they’ve ever tried driving a screw with a hammer?
Josh
Very late reply but I couldn’t resist
https://youtu.be/cwUMaV6YV4M
RX9
This really should be in a sticky of some sort.
Hammer Drill, Rotary Hammer –
Hammering force is exerted perpendicular to the rotation of the bit. This hammering action is useful for drilling applications, and not useful for driving or removing threaded fasteners.
Advantages include:
*Oscillation removes material from hole and prevents bit from clogging
*Pulverizing action increases material removal rate, especially in concrete/masonry
Impact Driver, Impact Wrench –
Hammering force is exerted in the direction of bit rotation. This hammering action is used primarily to drive/remove threaded fasteners, and can be successfully used for most drilling applications.
Advantages include:
* Ability to drive fasteners (Philips head screws in particular) with less risk of damaging the fastener head
* Drastically increased maximum torque levels
* Rotational hammering action loosens stuck fasteners
* Hammer action provides largely reactionless torque
Jimmie
Depends on whether the nuts have been torqued to the vehicle maker’s specs or if someone just tightened the hell out of them “just to be safe”.
For example, Toyota recommends that 4th-generation 4Runner nuts be torqued to only 83 ft-lbs. That’s within the capabilities of most 1/4″ impact drivers including my little M12 Fuel. Indeed, I’ve verified that my M12 can break them loose when properly torqued.
That said, my impact driver isn’t the first tool that I’d reach for to do the job. Not when there’s an Air Cat impact wrench sitting on the next shelf. There are times when you really do need a lot of ft-lbs to break a rusted nut free. If the nuts are really stuck, sometimes you even need to break out the blowtorch to heat them first.
Nathan
LOL – other Nathan here
I tried it once on a brake job just as a “there’s no way this small thing will twist it off” gag. Dewalt 895 – on speed 3 with a 3/8 square adapter – 19mm socket. bang bang bang bang whir. and off to the next one.
I was very impressed – however – while I know people will say it’s over stressing the tool – and the motor isn’t big enough . . . . .
my caution would be different. your 1/4 hex shank and it’s interface with the tool isn’t made for that sort of abuse. screws buried in a wood knot or something – have less stress carring capacity than the 1/4 shank – thus will most likely give first.
where as the shank of a 16mm bolt using a 19mm hex lug is much stronger and you run the risk of possibly shattering your 1/4 hex shank in the driver.
So No I wouldn’t recommend it as a common use.
Nathan
I think you need to go back and read my post. I clearly stated I was using a 3/8″ impact wrench, not a 1/4″ hex impact driver.
Nathan
true – I wasn’t directing that at you. just noting the names – since there must be something like 5 of us that post on here. (not the tool guyd giveaway thread)
Nathan
Ah, I see. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
dll932
I tried to use a CORDED impact to remove lug nuts on a 10 year old car that the nuts had apparently been overtightened on. Couldn’t do it. Bent a 4 way wrench also-no luck. I went out and bought breaker bars and sockets to keep in the trunk.
Steve The Hammer
1. Torch it and heat up that nut
2. Add bees wax, or Penetrating oil
3. breaker bar, and a pipe as an extension.
I use 1/2″ or larger sockets/wrenchs for all lugs. I just don’t’ feel like abusing my 3/8″ gear with the nonsense that results from a rusted on fastener. 😉
When all hope is lost… “trim” off the nut with a dremel cutting disc or grinder… lol
Mike
Generally speaking, it’s dicey at best. If you use impact driver and it works, you’re lucky. And it definitely stresses the tool, even one with good power like the popular M18 Fuel. Even though they look similar, a 1/4″ hex insert impact DRIVER is not just an impact WRENCH with a different front end. The impact wrench almost always has beefier internals.
Also, physics plays a noticeable role here with mechanical advantage and such. 1/2″ drive sockets/ratchets apply much more torque than 1/4″. So a 1/4″ hex to 1/2″ square adapter loses a lot of power in the transfer. Same principle is behind marketing claims for pass-thru socket sets with the “40% more torque” and all that.
Most significant are the tire shop guys who often take far too much delight in over-torqueing the hell out of wheel lug nuts. It can be seriously ridiculous in some cases.
fred
IR sells these sockets that they claim can deliver 50% more torque.
http://www.coptool.com/ingersoll-rand-to-add-50-impact-torque-with-powersockets/
Dacan
I recently ran an extensive lug test on these tools.
M12 Fuel 3/8 Impact 2454 w/ 2.0 Battery- 117 ft-lbs
M12 Fuel 1/4 Hex Impact 2453 w/ XC Battery- 100 ft-lbs
M18 Fuel Gen2 3/8 Impact 2754 w/ 5.0 Battery- 210 ft-lbs
M18 Fuel Gen2 1/4 Hex Impact 2753 w/ 2.0 Battery- 150 ft-lbs
M18 3/8 Impact 2651 w/ XC Battery- 167 ft-lbs
M18 1/4 Hex Impact 2656 w/ XC Battery- 125 ft-lbs
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=326821
I was successful in remove lug bolts with the M12 1/4 Hex Impact, even with a 6″ impact extension!
Ron
I used a Milwaukee 1/2″ impact (2763-22) cordless to replace shock/struts and it removed nuts that I could NOT get off with a 1/2 ” breaker bar. It’s incredibly powerful, but not compact. Highly worth it though!
Farid
I use a pneumatic impact wrench. My lug nuts are supposed to be tightened to 95-lb.ft but I have used a calibrated torque wrench before to remove them right after garage service and I have measured as high as 206-lb.ft. So, an impact driver does not come close. The garage supposedly uses torque sticks!
Lug nuts torqued at room temperature then removed in cold temperatures require a lot more torque to remove.
Chip
In an emergency….. I used an m12, 1/4 in for a trailer @work.
I have the big fuel1/2 impact, that I use……….. instead of firing up the air compressor.
So yes it can be done, shouldn’t be done regularly.
Knew some loggers that had a dead battery, so they ran the belt to their chainsaw to charge the battery.
Jeremy
I’ve been using my Dewalt 1/2″ impact for this purpose for years. One stays in the truck with an impact rated socket set just for that reason. We tow a lot and trailers love to have flats.
Andrew
I use the DEWALT DCF899B for my F-150 & my wife’s SUV. At 700 ft lbs of cordless torque & 1200 ft lbs of breakaway torque, this thing can more than get the job done. Obviously when the lug nuts go back on, I’ll tighten with a torque wrench to manufacturer specs
RKA
I used to use an impact driver and 3/8″ adapter after breaking the bolts loose by hand. I don’t need to fire up the compressor for tire swaps. I recently added a Fuel 3/8″ impact wrench which should be able to remove bolts torqued to 100 ft lbs and I can skip the manual process of breaking the bolts. While I have the fuel impact driver and it has plenty of power, I suspect much of that power is lost in the neck of the adapter or it will just break clean off. Dacan’s testing above confirms this (thanks for that!).
John
I probably wouldn’t make a habit outta using the impact driver as its likely over stressing the tool.
However having said that, I’ve had no problem removing lug nuts with my M12 Fuel 3/8 Impact Wrench 2454-20 (117 ft-lbs (1,400 in-lbs))
Here’s a good example of it working on that very activity:
https://youtu.be/oSeRLYuT4Kc
In all cases you should not be using any powered tool to tighten it down. If you absolutely must, you should be using a impact torque limiting extension bar like (a quick google search comes up with):
http://www.harborfreight.com/10-piece-12-in-torque-limiting-extension-bar-set-69870.html
so you’re not overtorquing, then torque to specs with a real torque wrench.
John
Heres’s another good video showing the M12 Fuel 3/8 Impact Wrench 2454-20 (117 ft-lbs (1,400 in-lbs)) is plenty cable of removing lug nuts:
https://youtu.be/pGpqVNPW-4I
One side node, I would imagine that using an impact driver you’re likely going to damage the neck if you’re at its end of total torque and likely is not built to have that kind of stress for so long whereas the impact wrenches are designed instead for just that. You could probably “get away with it” for a while but long term impact driver is going to fail over an impact wrench and isn’t good practice.
928'er
Kind of a moot point for me.
Porsche uses alloy lug nuts and alloy wheels, so the drill is: break the lugs nuts loose with a breaker bar and a soft sided lug nut socket, then spin the lugs nuts off with my cordless impact driver. Installation begins with threading the alloy lugs nuts on by hand to prevent cross-threading, then spinning them on with the cordless impact driver and final tightening to 96 ft/lbs is ALWAYS done with a torque wrench.
JMG
Newer model Porsche’ use steel lug bolts instead of nuts. Same process is used though as to not damage the alloy rims.
Jon
I have always had trouble removing the lugs from my truck. Spec calls for 80ft-lbs but they are always well past that usually due to rust. I used to use a 3-ft cheater pipe and breaker bar which is always kept in the trunk. This takes forever.
Last year I splurged for the dewalt Dcf-899 heavy duty impact wrench. It is fantastic! It can remove most lugs on speed 2, much faster and easier. I do wish there was a better way to keep the lugs from getting stuck in the socket sometimes.
mike aka Fazzman
A little anti sieze grease on the threads will help take em off way easier
Jon
I agree this definitely helps when I remember to do it. Also on the mating surfaces of the hub to keep the wheel from sticking which is an even more annoying problem than lugs.
Chris
Love mine, pure beast except it met it’s match against some lug nuts on my buddy’s Ranger. Took jumping up and down on a 2 foot breaker bar to break them loose lol
Lance
My Makita 18v brushless impact driver and compact 1/2″ impact wrench will both do lug nuts.
I agree with Stewart that a 1/4″ impact driver, while able to do the job, is not the right tool for the job.
My 1/2″ compact Makita impact wrench, however, does a great job. Here’s a video of it against the Milwaukee Fuel:
https://youtu.be/t84j1Z4eIgk
RX9
Honestly, using an impact driver with a socket adapter isn’t going to rag out the tool that much. The real issue is overall torque. The 80-120 ft. lbs of most brushed 12-18V drivers is going to work about half the time on most lug nuts. The brushless 18v impact drivers with 130-160 ft. lbs of torque work about 75% of the time.
If you can afford a dedicated impact wrench (not driver), the 180-250 ft. lbs that compact models pack will work about 97% of the time on lug nuts. Full size impact wrenches (350ft. lbs +) almost always handle lug nuts with ease, and are also effective on misery fasteners like axle nuts, bell housing bolts and suspension hardware. Their only drawback is that they are big and hard to fit into tight corners.
An impact driver is an excellent choice for the enthusiast on a budget, especially the guy who doesn’t have any power tools at all, and wishes to do carpentry in addition to auto maintenance. Simply stated, a good impact driver can be a less effective substitute for a drill and impact wrench combo in most cases. In the service of driving 1/4″ drive impact sockets (for smaller automotive fasteners), an impact driver can be a real winner.
Nevertheless, if you already own a drill, and you want to work on cars, skip the impact driver and grab a dedicated impact wrench. If you already have a tool that covers wood/drywall screws well, it’s better to complement it with a more capable and dedicated driver of nuts/bolts.
chris
Well said.
Richard
I have an old BMW (’98 323i Convertible) that I have to use my impact wrench on (stuff gets stuck on it alot- either from age or miles). That being said, although I have a compressor, i don’t have an impact gun, I use a Harbor Freight corded impact wrench. It has done the job every time, both on that car, and on my Hyundai.
I don’t know if it will work on the VW. It has those funny triple-square sockets, and I’m afraid to use one with impact.
mike aka Fazzman
I use a porter cable 20v impact to rotate our tires all the time,it even puts them on fine,just do a quick hit with a torque wrench.
Brian
If a tool can tighten/loosen a fastener to 100 ft/lbs, it will NOT remove a lug nut torqued to 100 ft/lbs. It takes more torque to break a nut than what it was torqued to, Newton’s law not mine.
Chris
We have a dewalt impact driver at work we use it to pull tires off everything, golf carts, tractors, all our mowers, utility vehicles and cars/trucks. It’s a beast. It’s pulled almost every nut off. Even the ones caked in mud.
Hang Fire
“If you tighten a lug nut to 100 ft-lbs, you should be able to immediately remove it using a tool that can deliver 100 ft-lbs of torque.”
According to physics, this is not expected to be true. The reason is for any two materials, there are two different friction coefficients, one dynamic and one static. In most cases, the static coefficient of friction is always higher than the dynamic.
There are various reasons the static coefficient of friction is always higher- metallurgical reasons such as cold welding, bolt head clamping force while hot versus cold, etc.
Eric
Yes…and impact tools operate in discrete “yanks”.
Dynamic vs static friction would be relevant if you measured torque while fastening in a continuous motion (like a drill), but we are talking about impact tools here.
OnTheWeb
Just had to work on an Evinrude outboard motor flywheel and a 18″ breaker bar would not loosen the nut. The 18v Milwaukee non-Fuel 1/4″ impact took it off like butter, even with a 1/2″ step up adapter. Well, maybe the liquid wrench finally kicked in 🙂
Of course we could have gotten it off with the breaker bar, but the impact made it easy.
Tim Johnson
Impact drivers….no, but they are still handy I’ve used them after first breaking the nuts loose just to spin them on/off fast. The M18 fuel smaller impact wrench is rated at 220 ft/lbs I haven’t used that but I’d be hesitant to trust it with possibly stuck/rusted lug nuts. I’ve used the older non-fuel M18 heavy duty impact rated at 450 ft/lbs for years and it’s never failed to get a lug nut off, but if it was half as powerful I think it would have failed on some.
However, there are a host of larger heavy duty cordless impact wrenches that will easily deal with even stuck/rusted lug nuts. For example the M18 fuel heavy duty 1/2″ impact driver, can push 1100 ft/lbs of nut breaking torque. Even the older non-fuel model hits 450 ft/lbs.
freudenspeckles
Snap On CT4410 with the 18v battery on it gets ’em every time homies.
jf
I was trying this at home.
I had bought an 18v Bosch 3/8 Impact IWH181-01 rated at 125ftlb. I then learned about the Milwaukee 12v ratchets, so I bought their Fuel (brushless) 3/8 Impact (rated about the same tq) and 1/4 ratchet. Before I returned the Bosch, I did a test with my car and torque wrench, starting high and working down. Neither could remove the lug at tire store torque. I backed them off and re-tq them. The Milwaukee was able to remove at 90ftlb, and install in the 110 range. The Bosch couldn’t do 90lb, but was just about ready to.
In deciding if I wanted both a 3/8″ impact and 1/4″ hex, I learned they are basically the same tool with a different hex. There may be different software configs as to when to activate the impact and hammer weights. You can adapt one to the other. The cost is about $10-25 for the adapter and the length of the tool in non-native setup. 3/8 to hex results in a pretty long tool. Hex to 3/8″ isn’t as bad and you can also do 1/4 and 1/2″. Both tools can be had pretty cheap, it might make sense to buy both and adapters, keeping the socket driver with the auto tools and hex with the wood working tools.
Tony Nap
IMO if you want some speed AND perfect accuracy AND as much safety as possile you need all three tools.
wrench #1 is the breaker bar for removing anything stuck.
wrench #2 is a cordless impact driver for removal and installation (have faith)
wrench #3 is a torque wrench.
removing uses only #1 and #2 in that order. break them, then spin them off. using the breaker bar lets you keep the smaller impact gun whose sole purpose is speed.
installation use your fingers to get them started, then use the cordless to get them 90% of the way done, then the torque wrench to finish.
It’s for another argument, but lugs are consistently over-tightened and using the undersized impact to get you 90% of the way is the way to go. saves the tool, the bolts, time, etc.
Steve The Hammer
My M12 Fuel 1/2″ Impact Wrench is “ok” for removing and spinning on lug nuts if it has a larger battery. I have a 6.0 battery for it that does a set of rims without issues… but I always final torque with a torque wrench, and I’d never attempt a job like that without a breaker bar and penetrating oil nearby for stubborn cases.
Torqued to 100 ftlbs these lugs come off just fine with the brushless M12 gear. And its light and easy to throw around.
CHUCK MINNICK
Check out the 24VDC Lugmaster 1/2″ drive. developes 650 Ftlbs. Originally developed for the military, it was powered by the vehicles onboard battery system.
Unfortunately they went out of business during Pres. Obama’s Military cutback on funding!
Originally used on MRAP units, Semi’s etc.
sajid
Without question this is the best demonstration on youtube, I’m going with the mid torque. Thanks for the post, I picked up the One-key version because of repeatability of INSTALLING lug nuts. When you use the app & register the tool with the app…..it has a lug setting for car & trucks built-in. Pull the trigger until the tool stops. I love this tool (2863-20).
Carlm
To recap some of the above, whemeasuring tightening torque (when you install the lug nut) you achieve the specified torque while the nut is rotating. When your torque wrench clicks or buzzes or however it signals you that the chosen torque has been achieved, you stop pushing on the handle. There is NO follow through like your golf swing or when batting a ball. More movement of
the nut after the click means you have over torqued the nut. If you wait only a second after torquing to spec and use your torque wrench to loosen the lug nut, you will find that the breakaway torque is always HIGHER than what you originally torqued to. Even without corrosion or overtightening, which you didn’t do……..right?
I recently purchased a big Dewalt 1/2” square drive cordless impact wrench to keep in my car for my occasional flat(two this year) and for being a good Sam ou,t on the road. The hot set-up for getting the tightening torque right or close to correct with an impact is to use a “Torque Stick “ between your impact and the socket. Used correctly it will apply at or close to its specified value. You have to purchase one for each correct torque value you expect to tighten. For instance 80 lb-ft for all the older 4 lug Honda’s, if I remember correctly. Whatever your owner,s manual says. And practice to become consistent with it’s use. Otherwise, do what Tony recommends. Plus a compact cordlesss to spin ‘em off and on. You want all the speed and convenience when it’s hot and humid out there, or freezing cold. Get some of the safety flashers that 1Tac sells on line, they’re the schnitz. You might as well stay safe.
One
Ron Jordan
You guys have way too much time on your hands. I’ve used cordless impact for years. Kobalt 1/2 24max volt driver on everything from Chevy equinox’s, HHR, military HMMWVs, and military trailers. I have never broken studs, or stretched lugs after many brake jobs.
Keep using those torq wrenches, I’ll see you after I’ve had a few beers while I wait on you.
Zed
You don’t need a drill. You need an impact wrench 1/2 drive preferably. One that has atheist 150 ft lbs of reverse torque. Secondly, removing the lugs you would first jack the vehicle up to desired hight. Remove lugs change tire. Start threads by hand. Start running the lugs in slowly until the wheels completely seated to the hub. Now, this is IMPORTANT, lower the vehicle just enough to “kiss” the ground and continue to snug them up. After that is done, lower the vehicle all the way down and give each one a couple more hits with the impact. Lastly, ASAP, have said lugnuts torqued to specification. I know this because I have changed at LEAST 20,000 tires in shops in the past.
Jess
A 20v Porter Cable 1/4″ impact WILL break a lug nut loose from 100ft/lb with a 1/4 to 3/8 adapter and 19mm socket all day, until the adapter snaps or the planetary cracks.