I came across an image for a combination woodworking machine on social media, and I was sure that it was AI generated.
No one could possibly use a tool this potentially unsafe, right?
This woodworking machine tool is part table saw, planer and jointer, and drill, and it’s very real.
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There’s no guard for the table saw blade.
There doesn’t seem to be any guard over the jointer knives either.
As for the drill, online videos show that you’re supposed to just push wood workpieces into a spinning drill bit.
There are a couple of different makes and models out there.
Closeup of the various machines’ controls show pushbuttons where green is start, red is off, and yellow is reverse.
Does that mean ALL tool functions spin at the same time?
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There are bigger floor-standing ones!
Where are you supposed to stand to use the jointer? Do you reach over the bolted-on drill support table contraption, or over the saw blade that’s hopefully not spinning?
Several ads and product listings say that these combo saw-jointer-drill tools have ISO and CE certifications, but they cannot possibly comply with modern machine safety standards.
I am not skilled enough to use a tool like this. I’m sure some people could pull it off, but not me – I’d lose pieces – if not chunks – from my hands with the first use.
Some machine tools can be intimidating and even scary to use. These? They’re the stuff of nightmares.
Eugenio
I had to check the date, thought it was April 1st.
Joe A
Designed for people who have always hated having 10 fingers… or 2 hands.
Yikes.
Lance
Take that, Sawstop! A machine from when men were men! lol!
Mike McFalls
haha!
James Vis
That is terrifying. Both the thought of someone using it and thought of someone selling it. Please tell me this is illegal to purchase in the USA and ideally anywhere else in the entire world
Jared
It’s like someone heard about Shopsmith, was told to build one, but never got to see a picture.
These machines look insane. Maybe they actually miniature tools that just look large?
How are you going to drill by freehand pushing a piece of wood at a sideways chuck? Then when you invariably break a bit, don’t lose your balance or you’ll catch the saw blade with your face.
John
If you are too short for the blade, you”ll get planed.lol
Nathan
These are popular in India. One motor and either one or 2 belts. The 2 belt version is best. Multi speed drill and you can take a belt off to stop an implement but ideally yes you want them to run at once
Plane board flat it then flip and saw it to width then as needed drill for dowels
It’s best used to making flat pack furniture kits for rate in-between school hours
(Not serious, but it’s what first came to mind.). I assume made somewhere without labor laws
blocky
Yes, this is how I’ve seen them being used. Production work processing thousands of small boards. Rip, plane, and mortise, without reconfiguring the shop or moving the material inefficient distances. These do not look as quick to reconfigure or as versatile as separate dedicated tool stations.
Used within their limits, they are probably as safe as the experience and attention of the user.
Hoser
What’s truly terrifying is that people think these tools are unsafe. Are hammers unsafe because they have no safety measures to prevent you from smashing your finger? Are pliers unsafe because they have no anti-pinch mechanism? Are screwdrivers unsafe because they have no anti-slip off fasteners and stab your finger mode?
It’s pretty simple, don’t put your fingers into the sharp spinny bits. There’s your safety guard.
Garrick Moe
I get what you mean but I think the question is how to do you use the jointer, for example, without standing in front of the (spinning?) drill.
Brad
I would assume that one would remove the drill chuck from the spindle.
Peter
Yeah and we should also have cars without any safety features since one can just not crash right?
avi
To a certain extent we do, motorcycles.
Or as I’ve heard an EMT call them, donorcycles.
But many places require a helmet which could be akin to mandatory blade guards, but then only on public roads which could be analogous to commercial job sites as opposed to a private garage workshop.
Peter
I was just trying to make light of these recurring hammer etc arguments.
And why stop there a pillow can be dangerous too.
On the other extreme one could have a car without any safety equipment and drive slow, avoid traffic and very defensibly to avoid accidents so no airbags are needed and the often quoted government overreach can be avoided.
In these cases the Gov is in an almost always loosing position because on hand it should protect the citizens from dangerous stuff and on the other it should allow us as much freedom as possible.
Funny that you say that because I ride bikes and have two doctors in the family that say the same thing about bikers.
To do my part I am an organ donor. 😉
avi
You my good sir, are the reason we CAN have nice things!
Michael F
To be fair, the design of this tool is more like if the pliers had blades attached to the handles. It would be almost impossible to use at that point without cutting your fingers.
MM
You beat me to that exact example!
I”ll be among the first to agree that many safety regulations are clear examples of government overreach. But this thing? No, this is an unsafe disaster. There is no way to use most of the functions of this tool without exposing yourself to serious hazards. This is like making a combination knife-hammer where you have to grab the blade to swing the hammer.
Grokew
Like the Mordschlag technique
BigTimeTommy
Wouldn’t be surprised if this is what everyone uses in furniture slave factories all over Asia. I’m sure you could use it “safely” but why would anyone bother buying such poorly designed garbage.
Stuart
I did say:
There’s no world in which I’d ever be comfortable with a tool like this. But, there’s always going to people who think “nah, I’ll be fine.” That’s good for you, but I definitely don’t have the skill to never slip up.
It looks to carry far greater risk than other tools, and with no perceived benefits.
Jared
The idea that you don’t need safety guards is great if your attention, coordination and skill are perfect. Over a long enough time period though, nobody is.
Tools should be designed to mitigate hazards. There’s limits of course – e.g. if the safety measures start to interfere with the usefulness of the tool or force you into awkward actions – but I see no reason to adopt an obviously dangerous design.
Even if you think it’s morally correct for people to suffer for their own mistakes – what if it wasn’t? e.g. a coworker accidentally bumps someone into a horizontally-mounted drill chuck causing abdominal injuries.
Or what if it’s a small mistake with huge consequences? Maybe reaching across a spinning circular saw blade to lift a board from the planer, clearing some dust from the work surface before things come to a stop, etc.
Or it might be entirely the person’s own fault and they did something intentionally dangerous – yet now society has to absorb some of the costs for medical treatment, adaptive infrastructure or workers’ compensation.
I prefer to start with a tool designed with safety in mind.
Grokew
“yet now society has to absorb some of the costs for medical treatment, adaptive infrastructure or workers’ compensation. ”
Isn’t that the whole point of forming a society?
Sharing resources, skills, and knowledge so that everyone can have a fulfilling life.
Make that injured person a shop safety instructor, so that they can earn money, and help keep others safe.
Jared
I’m not complaining about that. I was responding to a comment I perceived as suggesting we don’t need safe designs because everyone should be personally responsible for their own safety.
I’m not picking on the guy who starting this comment thread, but there’s a certain impulse some people have to blame the person who gets injured for not being more careful or skilled.
I agree that if you do dumb things and take shortcuts, your injury might be your fault. On the other hand, I worked in worker compensation appeals for many years and my impression is that “accidents” occur when there’s some obvious hazard no bothered to fix.
E.g. I read a comment recently where some fellow was making fun of a coworker whose hand got trapped in a drill press. The chuck key had been chained to the drill press so it wouldn’t keep being misplaced. He forgot to remove it and the chain whipped out and caught his hand.
Who do you blame for that?
The guy certainly forgot to remove the chuck, but installing it on a chain above a spinning tool in the first place? Sounds like a hazard to me.
MM
Not to derail the discussion, but leaving a chuck key in a machine is a serious F-up. In many machine shops doing that would get you fired on the spot. Even with no chain involved the chuck key can go flying out of the machine. With a small drill press that’s a hazard. If it’s a big key from an industrial size drill press, or worse yet a lathe chuck key, that’s a real serious hazard.
As for the chain on the chuck key: I’ve seen that done before, in my opinion that is a huge no-no. One of the most basic rules about working around a drill press or any other kind of rotating machinery is to secure any loose clothing, long hair, and to remove things like watches, jewelry or gloves that could get caught in the machine. A chain or cord attaching something to the drill press is an obvious no-no for the same reason.
BigTimeTommy
The hiring manager is at fault. They hired at least two crappy employees in this scenario.
BigTimeTommy
Yeah that’s the point of forming a society, big guy. If we didn’t have one someone would’ve killed you and taken your things already.
eddiesky
Man, and to think I inherited a Dewalt radial arm saw with instructions how to cut panels or router with exposed spinning death.
There is a Japanese furniture maker https://www.youtube.com/@ISHITANIFURNITURE/videos that has a saw, which is exposed, and although there is disclaimer in beginning for viewers, its still nerve wracking to see that one tool in use. However, when you watch him work, you realize, he’s not a fool like those in central and east asia wearing no shoes…
Brad
As an avid DeWalt radial arm saw restorer and user, I’ve found them to be incredibly safe, when used correctly. I guess it’s possible one could try to rip in the wrong direction, causing a launch, or forget to tighten the height adjustment, so that it climbs, but I’d rather use a DeWalt RAS over most table saws. What RAS’s bad reputation largely comes from a couple of designs and extremely cheap design changes, largely at the hands of Craftsman.
fred
We had a behemoth of a Dewalt RAS sitting in the corner of our cabinet shop. It was seldom used – unless the guys needed its 16-inch blade capability. When we acquired the shop – it was an eye opener for me. My prior RAS experience was with a personal 1960’s vintage Craftsman that had become sloppy with use. The Craftsman – although advertised as a “do it all” tool was not built as well (or priced I guess) anywhere near the Dewalt. I soon added a Unisaw to my shop and relegated the RAS for rough cross cutting tasks. Maybe if I had started out buying a Dewalt – I would have had a better feeling for the RAS.
DRT42
I also have a Dewalt RAS, and like you, I use it probably twice as much as my table saw. That said, I only use it for crosscuts, and I have a blade on it which is specifically designed for RAS applications.
Mike
Like my old friend stumpy used to say, safety second.
MFC
“Look Ma, no hands!”
mikedt
Given the number of people on this site that seem to loathe mandatory safety devices on their tools, I would expect a few “I WANT THAT!”
tim Rowledge
Pretty much my thought as well. “Ah don’need no gummint sayftee BS! Freedumb!”
avi
As much as I love the #’Murica!!
I’m pretty sure most of the anti-mandatory-safety is anti the mandatory part. As in I’ll gladly buy a sawstop to protect my fingers as long as no one makes me.
Bob
It could also be that those types of people are wise enough to see something they can safely operate and something they can’t. They’re not against being safe, they’re against over the top safety. They also know their limits (perhaps sometimes a bit too optimistically).
Just because you’re against something doesn’t make you reckless.
Peter
Just because it’s over the top for some does it over the top for others.
Since not everyone is wise in all departments of life and for those are those regulations for.
To me not allowing a machine like this to be sold in the US is while not on the same scale like banning the use of Contergan, asbestos etc. but it has the same premise.
BigTimeTommy
That’s such a ridiculous nonsense comparison.
Robert
So there was no indication where this monstrosity was being sold?
Stuart
They’re on all kinds of international direct-to-your-door online marketplaces.
Wayne R.
It’s bad enough to have individual unsafe tools, but to combine them together is the jaw-dropping aspect of this. Plus, can’t see any good results out of any of them, separate or not.
Mike
This would be like using a Swiss Army knife with all the tools open at the same time.
Alexk
I don’t see how to joint without a fence. The fence is attached by arms that sit on top of the table and would be in the way of the jointer. If the saw blade drops down completely, and there is a way to attach the fence for jointing, you would stand in front and not be anywhere near the drill/mortiser. By the way, the Incra table saw had a similar mortiser and when I used one to saw, it was great.
Had a guard on an adjustable arm that lowered over the blade. One side of the machine to saw and opposite side to mortise. Comparing the size of the switches to the size of the machine, it looks like the machine is small. Not like a micro table saw, but small. The photos looks like it’s a dangerous machine, but if it’s small and has guards, maybe it is good for a hobbyist or specialty use. I’d like to see more images with all the accessories. The way it looks now, is terrifying. On a Hammer or Felder, you can get an all in one. If your pockets are deep. And those seem safe.
TonyT
Certification means nothing by itself – it has to be the right certifications.
They could have ISO certificates for six sigma (ISO9000?), or some thing else totally unrelated to safety.
You can self-certify for CE, so maybe they self-certify that the machine won’t shock you, but none of most important certifications for this Rube Gold-finger-chopper machine.
JR Ramos
There are most often “certifications” in various flavors that are issued by the Chinese government to vendors which are dubious at best and to my knowledge those don’t have any real requirements and certainly no requirement or confirmation of actually meeting various standards or product testing, etc. Often on Alibaba or Aliexpress you’ll see vendors with images or files of these issued certificates. Maybe they mean more to them domestically but the intent seems to be the international market.
JR Ramos
Also, those are issued to the business entity itself, not the products. They’re essentially meaningless. Many factories do meet their various ISO standards but apparently there are a lot that claim it fictitiously and/or attain the cert and then let it fall to crap in subsequent years. Still the wild wild west with a great many vendors.
BigTimeTommy
You can also just lie and say it’s certified because no one will care or hold you accountable.
JR Ramos
These are not new – first recall seeing them with direct import vendors/reps in about 1997 I think (much like your first photo model with the OD green paint). We halfway considered stocking them but first and foremost the complete lack of a belt cover and lower blade cover was an important no-go. But the quality was pretty much junk, too, with thin fastener/hardware washers on the blade arbor instead of proper flanges and the fence was almost dangerously jokey. Questionable motor but definitely crap bearings. Reverse seemed like an exceptionally bad idea if someone were to do that with the saw blade. One vendor offered a flat plate sanding platen, too.
The drill chuck was intended for sanding drums/buffing wheels/etc, not for drill bits and boring.
The ones we spoke with also alluded to zero warranty or parts availability (no warranty is/was very common with direct importers – with some you can purchase one with limitations on quantity, and with the rest you just factor it into the retail pricing if you plan on accepting returns or offering satisfaction guarantees).
This was at the time when the Shopsmith craze was still strong and the mini lathes in the import market were ramping up.
It could be used safely if you don’t mind an immense clean up/fiddle factor (assuming the quality has not greatly improved over the years), but yeah…risk is high and that moment of your inattention may matter a whole lot more than it might with many other tools. Would definitely figure out a belt cover if nothing else. I’m surprised to even see these still around or mentioned.
Stuart
Regarding the drill chucks, the companies selling the tools have videos showing them being used with drill bits to bore into wood boards. They also advertise mortising attachments and similar.
JR Ramos
Understood. My commentary from what might have been the originals 30 years ago is only worth what it is/was. I just can’t believe they’re still around, really.
Jp
People make it work. I couldn’t but I’ve traveled where these are used. They have the skill. Injury? Not common. If they lose fingers, they don’t eat. No social security disabilities system. More than one country uses things like this. I am way too unskilled and so are my kids. I need the sawstop. I admit the guards get in my way, but I have my fingers.
Joe H
This is for the guys with lots of skill and experience who’s only PPE is a cigarette and sometimes a dirty rag and hands with skin like tractor tires and probably grew up on a farm or homestead.
George
I was just thinking the other day, “I like woodworking but couldn’t the safety measures be more like motor racing in the 1950s?”
Is this possibly manufactured in Milan or on the Isle of Man?
Kyle
No SawStop patents were infringed here!
TomD
I wonder. If you saw stopped up the whole think, could it be made safe?
Shane
Has anyone ever laid eyes on this thing to confirm it’s real? It looks too ridiculous to exist. I have to admit a morbid curiosity to actually see one. I wouldn’t use it but I would…umm…marvel at it!
Josh
It kind of reminds me of the Makita planer jointer combo. But much worse. You definitely lose in setup time and there is no feed for the planer or counter rollers to apply pressure meaning if the board shatters on a knot you are already pushing towards the blade…hard. probably from about two inches away. Not a recipe for success.