Dewalt has announced the launch of their new 20V Max 3.0Ah battery pack, DCB230, and it seems to be built with larger sized Li-Ion cells, the same as their highest capacity 20V Max 6.0Ah and FlexVolt 9.0Ah battery packs.
The new 20V Max compact 3.0Ah battery pack offers the same capacity as their DCB200 3.0Ah battery pack, while being 20% lighter.
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Pricing
- DCB230: $99
- DCB230-2 two pack: $129
- DCB230C starter bundle with charger:
$119$96 (as of May 2018)
Buy Now(Starter Set via Amazon)
Buy Now(2-Pack via Amazon)
First Thoughts
I haven’t heard back yet as to how the new battery pack will perform compared to existing 2.0Ah battery packs, or higher capacity battery packs. In theory, it should run quite well, as the larger battery cells should be capable of cooler running under high loads.
The battery pack has a built-in fuel gauge, and is said to recharge in “45 minutes or less.”
If you buy a 2-pack, the price per amp-hour would be $21.50 ($129/6.0Ah). Dewalt’s 20V Max 5.0Ah 2-pack (currently $150 at Amazon) comes down to $15 per amp-hour.
A Dewalt 20V Max 6.0Ah 2-pack is $178-$189. Taking the $189 MSRP, that would come down to $15.75 per amp-hour. A 2-pack of 9.0Ah batteries (there’s also a bundle deal with charger), is $279 at Amazon. So that’s $15.50 per amp-hour.
With these compact battery packs, the cost of manufacturing the battery pack contributes to the higher per-amp-hour cost. It’s how a 4″ screwdriver might be $10, and a 6″ model $12.
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Looking at Dewalt compact battery packs, a you can buy a 2-pack for $119 or a few dollars less. So that’s $119 for two 2.0Ah battery packs, or $29.75 per amp-hour.
If you want the lowest runtime cost, go with a higher capacity battery pack. If you want the most compact battery pack, go with the 2.0Ah pack.
If you want a higher capacity compact battery pack that can deliver greater runtime in a form factor that’s larger than existing compact packs but smaller and lighter than existing higher capacity battery packs, this might be a good fit for you.
Long story short, looks good.
Are there any compatibility issues? Unpublicized runtime or performance benefits? I’ll let you know when I find out.
Eric
I wouldn’t be surprised if it had 18650 cells just like the rest of the packs. They’ve had cells with that capacity and a high enough sustainable power output for a couple of years now. Long enough for the price to come down. While the 20700 or 21700 is still pretty new to the market and a lot more expensive. Those cells are running about 2x the price of an 18650 on the retail market, so I have to assume they’re running higher on the wholesale market as well.
Cr8on
Just based on the photo, it could be very safe to say that they use 20700 cells, note the longer release latch that appears identical to the 6.0 that uses 20700 cells.
Travis
It has 20700 cells just like the 6.0 ah XR pack does, just half the height.
Stuart
I was told that 18650 prices have been going up.
Eric
They have crept up some, but are still close to half the price of the larger 20700 and 21700 cells. Maybe some of that is just on the retail side though.
Cr8on
One word Gigafactory…….. It stands to reason we should be seeing 20/21700 cells start to be less than 18650 in the not so far future. Tesla and Panasonic apparently are planning Gigafactory 2-5 ……
Eric
Yeah there is the gigafactory, but all or at least most of those batteries are being used by Tesla. If there was plenty of surplus for the open market they wouldn’t be talking about opening so many new factories. Those specific batteries aren’t very high output either. They’re geared towards storing more energy. When they have huge banks of them they aren’t as dependent on any one cell to be able to put out lots of power.
Davida1
Larger cells are harder to cool, because they have a smaller surface area relative to the interior
Stuart
But running at the same power draw as 18650 cells, a larger cell will run cooler.
I don’t know if there’s a crossover point beyond which 18650 packs will run cooler.
Davida1
It’s possible, but on EV forums I’ve seen speculation that the reason Tesla hasn’t switched over to 2170 format (which the gigafactory produces), for the MODEL S & X, is due to 18650’s superior cooling. Meaning they want to orient their more expensive cars with higher performance vs MODEL 3 which is supposed to be mass market, they’d rather more storage density in the batteries vs performance. And another thing if what your saying is true that because they’re larger they run cooler why don’t they make huge batteries. Again just conjecture on my part, I could be wrong.
Mahalo
Just because larger cell may run cooler under same output, doesn’t mean that running cooler is the singular design goal. With all other considerations, it makes sense that they don’t simply resort to making “huge” single cell batteries.
Stuart
I’ve avoided going too deep into theory.
But I do know this – larger cells have higher current ceilings than smaller cells of the same capacity.
On paper, 2.0Ah 18650 cells had slightly better max current output than 2.5Ah cells, and 3.0Ah cells had a substantially lower rating.
Some brands have said that their battery pack designs have allowed them to step up to 18650 3.0Ah cells in their 6.0Ah packs.
But why haven’t many brands moved to 6.0Ah packs in 18650 form factor? Why not 3.0Ah compact packs from most brands?
A 3.0Ah pack built with 21700 or 20700 cells should have a higher max current rating.
Let’s say you’re running 18650 3.0Ah cell near its max output rating of 15A.
A Panasonic 3.1Ah 20700 cell has a max continuous current rating of 30A (NCR20700A).
I can find a temperature discharge plot for the Panasonic cell, but not for any 18650 3.0Ah cells I can easily find.
The Panasonic is rated to 60°C at discharge, which is reached halfway when outputting 30A. The cell can fully discharge – in ideal situations – before reaching that 60°C temperature. Battery pack cooling is ignored for simplicity’s sake.
Ah – found one. Samsung INR 18650 30Q. It has a max discharge current (continuous) of 15A.
There’s an output vs. temperature chart, again ignoring pack design. It’ll reach 60°C after fully discharged at 10A. At 15A, it’ll reach 60°C after only 1.3Ah of discharge, and 80°C after full discharge. At 20A, it’ll reach 60°C after 0.95Ah, and 100°C after full discharge. There’s no operating temperature range rating that I can find.
At 10A, the Panasonic cell will fully discharge and reach ~42°C.
So for those two cells, the Panasonic runs cooler at the same discharge current, and is capable of being pushed to higher power draw.
I can’t find a higher rated 3.0Ah 18650 cell than that Samsung INR.
Panasonic: https://akkuplus.de/mediafiles/Datenblatt/Panasonic/Panasonic_NCR20700A.pdf
Samsung: https://eu.nkon.nl/sk/k/30q.pdf
While I have yet to dig into more technical considerations of 18650 vs. 20700/21700, at least in terms of potential chemistry or manufacturing differences, I can tell you that 18650 has neared a theoretical limit, one which larger cells are helping power tool brands push past.
The aforementioned Panasonic cell, albeit with 3.1Ah capacity rating, can pump out 30A continuously. The smaller Samsung 3.0Ah cell tops out at 15A.
The Panasonic has lower energy density. But, it looks like 4.0Ah cells are on the horizon. There are already cordless power tool packs built with 3.5Ah cells.
It’s not that the 20700 and 21700 run cooler because they’re larger. They run cooler because they have higher current draw ratings. But I suppose they have higher current draw ratings partly because they’re larger, or maybe because they’re larger and less energy dense.
It seems there are other factors contributing to the higher max current rating, but I haven’t dug into that part yet. Finding answers would be too great of a challenge for what insight it could potentially provide.
Davida1
Wow thanks for the info.
Maybe at some point you can make an in depth article
rmkilc
LG HG2 18650 cells?
Eric
The Sony VTC6 is the current top dog, the Samsung 30q and LG HG2 aren’t far behind though.
Chris
It’s kind of ugly though. Looks like they’re trying to go with the 6ah battery style but it doesn’t work with smaller batteries.
Robin
Not a huge surprise. Just thinking last week it was only a matter of time until single bank 3.0 compact versions of the new 9.0 Flexvolt came out.
Robin
Oh, and unsurprisingly, out of stock already.
Stuart
It hasn’t launched yet. Some SKUs are available for pre-order. The 2-battery listing still needs to be updated with accurate photos and pricing.
Tool Of The Trade
It doesn’t matter what kind of cells they use. Bottom line is that they continue to rip us off on batteries. I’m not gonna lie, I love my cordless tools and the convenience that comes with them, but I hate the unknown battery life and the misinformation that they advertise. That shit’s for the birds. Hitachi has just recently started to sell their batteries somewhat close to what they are actually worth. The materials they use are the same across the board. Plastic shell, battery cells, circuit boards, wires, and some brass or copper. This is the question that no one knows the answer to. What kind of work do they base the amp hours on? Why doesn’t the amount of amphours apply to ALL TOOLS that use that voltage no matter what the task is. Whether I’m driving in screws with an impact driver or ripping a pt 16′ 2×8 with a circ saw, I should get the same amount of amphours out of my battery that they advertise. There’s no mention anywhere on the packaging of what kind of work that you get the most or the least amount of time out of the battery. Why? As much money as they charge for cordless batteries, this very important detail should be in large bold print on the front and back of the packaging. There should be a chart of tools and tasks that pertain to how long the battery will last based on the task pertinent to the tool printed on every single cordless battery that is packaged for retail. This seems to be the one thing that they avoid from mentioning so they can rip us off. They need to be held accountable for what makes their batteries cost as much as they do, don’t you think? That goes for anything. If something is expensive, you should want to know what makes it expensive. Batteries aren’t cheap. Look at combo kits. It would cost the same to get a decent battery for every one of the tools that comes with the kit than the cost of the kit. All of a sudden that $600 combo kit becomes an $1100 combo kit because they failed to provide adequate batteries and now your spending several hundred dollars on batteries to make the kit useful. The price of batteries would drop dramatically if the basis of amphours were printed. Why would you spend $100 on a battery that’s advertised at 5 hours, but you only get 45 minutes out of it if you use it to do something other than the unmentioned task that the amphours are originally based on? WTF IS THAT BS?! RIPOFF and GIMMICK in every sense of the word. Misinformation without even mentioning or printing information. Unknown lie. Problem is that people are too stupid to pick up on it. I’d love to hear what answers these sh__heads come up with as to why they package their batteries for sale without mentioning anything factual about the life of the battery and why it costs so much. Wait, an epiphany! Why am I waiting for my battery to charge when I could have just plugged my tool into the wall? Now remember children, pick up your feet when you walk so you don’t trip over something on the ground and look where you’re walking. Just because it’s convenient doesn’t mean that you should fail to use that invaluable tool between your 2 shoulders.
Stuart
Please, everyone needs to calm down and be respectful.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and personal attacks are never appropriate.
Andrew
These cells have no problem doing bursts of 90 amps. They are very very good cells. Truly roughly the same performance as the original 3.0 AH packs.
JoeM
So… To summarize… We’re LITERALLY getting new slim-line style batteries for the 20 Volt family. So, now we could conceivably drop one of these in a Heated Jacket and not have to charge it at the end of the day, or run the jacket plus charge several mobile devices all day with ease.
You could, in theory, drop this on a Brushed DCS391, 3Ah is 3Ah… but I think the smaller battery would throw off the balance on the saw, so this high-capacity-low-profile design for the 3Ah (and I suspect soon a 4Ah version too) is meant mostly for long-lasting compact and brushless tools. It’s a very niche need within the 20 Volt Family, and may stop at the use on Lights.
I’d be interested in these. I have a heated jacket or two, and several small/compact tools that I’d prefer not to have a 2 pound battery on. And you can always use more tool batteries. No matter what, you can never have too many for your chosen system.
John fal
I use the Milwaukee 12v battery and adapter on my Dewalt jacket. It fits in the pocket allot better. I’m glad they interchange 🙂
JoeM
I don’t think they’re supposed to, but very interesting to know they can.
Are you powering the jacket with a DeWALT battery adapter (the slide on thing that comes with the jacket), or is the 12V power connector just universal to both jacket systems? I’m genuinely curious, because I’ve always thought my 12V Max batteries from my Dremel 8200 would fit better in the pocket, if Dremel or Bosch made a 12V Max USB/12V Out socket that could fit into the pocket.
I’m not a construction worker, so I use my DeWALT jacket as a Civilian. Also, my Mother is elderly, and has a Scooter, and I bought HER the 3-in-1 high reflective heated jacket for winter usage. So, knowing there is, in fact, a way to make that battery pocket more comfortable with a physically smaller battery system has been on my mind for a while now.
Thanks for any info you can provide on how this works for you!
John fal
Well I have a Milwaukee hand warmer so I use its adapter and battery also on the Dewalt, the wire plugs are the same. I don’t use the Dewalt battery or adapter anymore, the Dewalt adapter and battery didn’t seem to fit in the pocket very well and was way to bulky. So u will need the adapter too.
Will not change out with tools though.
JoeM
No no… My 20 Volt tools use the 20 Volt batteries no matter what. I’ve never actually encountered a problem with fitting the battery in the pocket, mostly because the zipper also acts as an expansion control for the battery pocket. Unzip the battery pocket zipper all the way around, and you can fit the large-format 3.0-5.0 batteries inside, turned sideways. Or, the slimline batteries, plus the slide-on device, and 2 USB cables plugged in, with the cables all facing upward, battery flat against the jacket-side of the pocket.
Admittedly, that pocket, no matter how you use it, smacks people you walk by when you use the jacket as a civilian. And when my Mother needs to use her jacket while sitting on the scooter, the battery adapter tends to dig into one side of her.
Hence why it intrigued me when you found success using another company’s battery pack and adapter for the DeWALT! I have to admit here, if that could work with a smaller battery system, like the Dremel 12V Max system… That’s a real interesting thing to look into! Just… I’m not going to go out and buy Milwaukee… I already use DeWALT and Dremel batteries, I don’t think I need yet another battery system. It’s enough to know it can work if I can find a way!
John fal
Stuart,
you need to check out MXenes. It’s going to turn battery technology inside out! For example making a cool device like the Dewalt power station a long running generator, tools that can run nonstop for days and even flexible free moving cooled and heated clothing. Thought this might be worth your time checking out.
John fal
Here’s the link I found on that battery technology https://www.naturalnews.com/2018-02-22-mxene-new-miracle-material-with-applications-in-energy-storage-biology-electronics-medicine.html. I also found out another new lithium technology using solid glass electrolytes and polymer in lithium batteries to make them safer and give them 3 times the power!
Christian Borchard
If DeWalt was so great, they would be able to stand by these batteries and exchange them when they develop a new and improved one. I have the original battery which came with my DeWalt drill, running time is about twenty minutes…. And it’s the same style as this new one, but it’s more money than the drill. Lame lame lame
Stuart
Batteries are consumables.
They all have warranty periods, covering defects and the such, but also limited lifetimes.
JoeM
If you bought an old style DCB203 in March, and the same store you bought it at put the new DCB230s on the shelves in April or May, I’m sure you could get DeWALT to do an exchange if you really wanted them to, but that would be a customer service type of thing. If we’re talking after 3 years? No. The warranty on batteries is 3 years. That’s all there is to it.
I don’t get to use my 3Ah batteries as often as my 1.5s and 2.0Ah battery, and so mine are quite old now. If they work at this point, great. If they don’t, it’s time to replace them. I may not have got a lot of use out of them, but 3 years is up, and they have better batteries out now anyways. No use crying over something so replaceable, especially when you have more than one tool that uses them.
Joe Smith
That’s ridiculous. No company does that.
Batteries have a limited lifetime. Expecting to bring in 5 year old batteries and get new ones for free is asinine.
John fal
Here’s the link for the new glass lithium technology, created by the man who invented the lithium battery himself. I hope everyone finds this interesting as I do. https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/goodenough-introduces-new-battery-technology
firefly
I have seen that awhile back. I can’t wait for something fruitful came out of it. Battery energy density and charge time have been one of the biggest hold back in battery operated device. Imagine a being able to drive from Dallas to Houston to Austin and back to Dallas on a single charge on a Telsa. That would be sooo nice!
John fal
I’m sure that day will come, but they will probably have to put a big tax on it. lol
U know the states don’t want to lose that tax money from the pump.
firefly
Oh I can imagine. I remember hearing they complain about it with hybrid and other fuel efficient car already…
Paul K
Batteries and the Craftsman brand, two topics that never fail to draw angry people out of their holes.
For what it’s worth, I like smaller lighter batteries for just about everything except saws and yard tools. Only reasons to be walking around with a 6ah battery in a drill or impact driver is if you spend your day making 1 1/2″ hole after hole with a daredevil bit, are multi-tasking and trying to build up arm strength while also driving screws, or have been dropped in the wilderness miles from the next battery.
Maybe in a professional environment where the purchasing manager is calculating cost per amp hour and recharge cycles…maybe, but even then, the guy holding the tool costs vastly more than the batteries that go in his tool. Him being more nimble and efficient and happy so continuously productive saves way more money than a heavy battery.