Dewalt recently announced their PowerStack 5Ah battery, DCBP520, which is compatible with all of the brand’s 20V Max cordless power tools and chargers.
The new PowerStack 5Ah battery features Li-ion pouch cells, similar to the brand’s PowerStack 1.7Ah battery, and so it seems natural to compare the two.
Dewalt PowerStack 1.7Ah Battery: Compared to the DCB203 (2Ah) battery, the PowerStack 1.7Ah battery delivers 50% more power while being 25% more compact and weighing 15% less.
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Dewalt PowerStack 5Ah Battery: Compared to the DCB205 (5Ah) battery, the PowerStack 5Ah battery delivers 50% more work per charge.
Both batteries are said to deliver 2X the lifespan, based on charge cycles, vs. cylindrical cell batteries (DCB203, DCB205).
The PowerStack 1.7Ah battery was developed to be compact and light weight, whereas the PowerStack 5Ah battery was developed with power and efficiency in mind.
Dewalt has said that the PowerStack 5Ah battery can tackle more demanding construction applications compared to the 1.7Ah.
So, which should you choose, and when?
I have come to really enjoy using the PowerStack 1.7Ah battery with many very different types of Dewalt 20V Max cordless power tools.
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I have used the PowerStack 1.7Ah battery with compact drills, impact drivers, impact wrenches, Atomic-series circular and reciprocating saws, and also woodworking-focused tools such as the brushless sander and router.
It serves well for quick tasks, and prolonged use in lighter duty or more compact tools.
I added a single PowerStack 5Ah battery into my kit, and found that it works well with all 20V Max cordless power tools.
The PowerStack 5Ah battery can deliver longer runtime compared to the 1.7Ah battery.
Even though the PowerStack 1.7Ah battery is 50% more powerful than the compact 2.0Ah battery (DCB203), the PowerStack 5Ah battery can deliver 50% more power compared to the 5Ah battery (DCB205).
As the DCB205 battery is engineered with 10x 18650 Li-ion cells, it is capable of greater power deliver than the DCB203 battery, which is engineered with 5x 18650 cells.
While both PowerStack batteries, 1.7Ah and 5Ah, are engineered with 5x Li-ion pouch cells, the 5Ah battery is going to be capable of greater power delivery than the 1.7Ah battery.
Based on my testing so far, the PowerStack 5Ah battery is the ideal match for heavier duty tools, such as angle grinders, larger rotary hammers, 7-1/4″ circular saws, blowers, and other tools where runtime or power are the priority.
I sought out thinking there would be tools and tasks clearly matched to the PowerStack compact 1.7Ah battery, and others that are better matched to the PowerStack 5Ah battery.
However, the difference really comes down to intent. Do I want a more compact and lighter battery? Or would the tool or task benefit more from higher power and longer runtime?
For my uses, these two battery sizes could replace all of my 20V Max cylindrical cell cordless power tool batteries from 1.3Ah to 8Ah. In theory, I might still use cylindrical cell 8Ah batteries for longer runtime, but in practice I tend to reach for FlexVolt 9Ah batteries for more demanding and longer power-draining tasks.
What I have found is that the compact PowerStack battery is a great substitute for traditional cylindrical cell compact batteries, and even higher capacity batteries where I need higher power delivery but not necessarily the longer runtime.
The PowerStack 5Ah battery, on the other hand, performed well with any and every 20V Max cordless power tool I tested it with. It seems to pick up perfectly where the 1.7Ah battery leaves off.
Nathan
I see those wings on the 5AH powerstack again. has there been a device that has a slot that uses those or captures that for weight carrying or such? Does that mean the casement is meant for a powerstack flexvolt?
Inquiring minds and all that rot. Meanwhile I like the idea but I don’t do enough to need them. the 1.7 would be nice for for some of my work especially if I end up buying a ratchet but I think the cordless ratchet I’ll get won’t be a dewalt. just to save the money.
Big Richard
My assumption was to make it incompatible with the 18v to 20v adapter, DCA1820. Never got confirmation if that was the sole purpose or not.
Nathan
if that is the case, why though I wonder? I mean the big flexvolt I could see due to weight/size alone but this 5Ah pouch shouldn’t be an issue
Big Richard
Even the 21700 based XR packs like the 6Ah/8Ah are not recommended for use with it. Something to do with the amount of juice they can put out, where the older tools or adapter itself could be damaged.
Mike
I have the FV 1.7 and it fits a brand ‘x’ DeWalt to Ryobi adaptor no problem. Just sayin’.
MM
The 1.7ah powerstack doesn’t have the “wings” in question so it isn’t relevant here. Also, most adapters are not shaped like the Dewalt DCA1820. I have generic 3rd party adapters: one that goes from Dewalt battery to Makita LXT and another from Dewalt batt to Metabo 18V, and either of those would work with the 5ah battery just fine since they do not cover up where the “wings” would be located. However if you look at a pic of the specific adapter Big Richard mentioned it does have a pair of extra projections that stick out into the exact spot where the “wings” are located on the 5ah. Other adapters don’t have this shape. So, while these concerns don’t exist for most Dewalt batteries and most adapters, Big Richard is right about that specific combination not working.
Bob
For what it’s worth I cut off the parts that’s interfere with using a flex volt battery on the 20v to 18v DeWalt adapter. It was pretty pretty easy I just used a coping saw to cut off the stupid molded in wings.
I also used the hell out of an old 18v sawzal. Nothing burnt up, caught fire or even got hotter than what I would assume normal. Didn’t let the “magic smoke” out so it must be fine lol.
I had to cut two rusted on 3 inch pins off an excavator to get the bucket off. All I had was my old 18V sawzal I keep in my truck tool box. Luckily I had a few flex volt batteries. I think they are 6ah and 9ah? Also a few diablo carbide blades. Spendy but one blade lasted 4 cuts through 3” pins. Highly recommend them!!!
Anyway I wouldn’t hesitate to modify the adapter or battery to fit an older tool.
Matt+the+Hoople
I did the same thing. Needed more power from my 18v recip saw to demolish an old jungle gym play set made from 6×6?timbers. Ground the tabs off of the Dewalt adapter so I could ileum my 6AH batteries. Seemed to work without issue. I did make it a pint to stop using the batteries when they got down to just one dot of charge left so as not to drain them too far just in case. Also let everything test a bit every few minutes and checked everything for excess heat. Worked fine but not mindlessly.
John
While these new batteries are great, price must come down.
Big Richard
Super basic takeaway/summary:
1.7Ah – Power of a two row 18650 pack (DCB204/DCB204), but approximate size of a single row 18650 pack (DCB203)
5Ah – Power of a two row 21700 pack (DCB206/DCB208), but approximate size of a single row 21700 pack (DCB230/DCB240)
MtnRanch
I’d love to see the PowerStack batteries in a larger size like 8-10 amps for my pressure washer, reciprocating saw and roto-hammer.
Rob
Does we know if these batteries use the newer LiFePO chemistry? My understanding is that chemistry can handle at least 3x more charge/discharge cycles than “regular” li-ion and could make for a much longer lifespan battery.
That would help justify the high prices but I assume DeWalt would market the shit out of that feature.
Stuart
I was specifically told they’re Li-ion and not LiPo.
These pouch cell batteries are already rated as lasting 2X as long as the cylindrical cell Li-ion batteries, with respect to charge cycles.
Rob
That’s good to know about the charging cycles being improved but these new batteries seems like an incremental step, with LiPo being the obvious next inprovement that will come to power tool batteries in the near future. Unless I’m missing something about LiPo chemistry that makes it inappropriate for power tools.
Bonnie
I believe LiPo is still significantly more expensive than lion batteries, particularly at high densities. They’re generally safer from impact and damage, but can still swell with age and misuse that could be a problem for power tools that get beaten up.
Joshua Ludden
I use lipo batteries in my rc cars & they are a little volatile. Charging has to be closely monitored, they should not sit for more than a few days fully charged. Extremely powerful but they take a lot more mindfulness to maintain their peak performance
Bobbie S
LiPo (Lithium Polymer) is different than LFP / LiFePo4 / Lithium Iron Phosphate.
LFPs have approximately 5x-6x the charge cycles that traditional lithium batteries have AND do not suffer from the thermal runway that traditional lithium batteries can have if damaged. There are many other advantages as well.
I am using LFP for my off-grid solar storage due to the increased safety over traditional lithium.
Jared
Torque Test Channel did an analysis recently of the new 5ah Powerstack and I thought the most interesting takeaway (which was also postulated on ToolGuyd, but it was nice to see a test) was that the 5ah Powerstack not only delivered the “power” of a larger capacity battery, but clearly outlasted the regular 5ah cell.
E.g. not only does it behave like an 8ah pack in terms of performance-boosting certain high-draw tools, but presumably because it’s more efficient at delivering a high discharge rate, it’s not wasting that power in useless heat production and outlasts a 5ah pack despite the matching capacity.
Whereas the 1.7 Powerstack was clearly a compact high-draw battery for when you need the power but not the weight, the 5ah Powerstack seemed to make less sense since it was roughly the same size as the normal 5ah pack anyway. However, if you keep in mind that the power-delivery boost is also accompanied by an efficiency improvement, the pack makes more sense (at least in my mind).
Eric
“Compared to the DCB205 (5Ah) battery, the PowerStack 5Ah battery delivers 50% more work per charge.”
I’m not sure how to make sense of this statement; is there a typo there?
Surely if the PowerStack delivers 50% more work per charge than a 5Ah battery then it would be rated for 7.5Ah. Or am I missing something?
Ben
It’s an efficiency comparison. They’re saying more physical work is done by the tool (guessing in terms of force applied over a distance) using the 5Ah PowerStack compared to the 5Ah cylindrical cell. Not as much electrical energy from the pouch is converted to waste heat in the process of being transferred from the battery cell to the tool. So even though you have the same nominal electrical capacity, more of that capacity is actually used in the PowerStack battery, rather than being wasted as heat.
At least, that’s my interpretation.
Will
ie. Power stack is more efficient.
Ct451
One would assume the capacity they state is usable but it’s not. Each cell has internal resistance that eats up some of it. More cells in a pack means more “waste”. Plus protection electronics that choose a safe usable range.
Stuart
More cells in a battery pack do NOT automatically mean “more waste.” What’s your logic here?
When depleting a battery pack, under ideal circumstances the charge capacity consumed starts at 0 and then increases towards its rated value at maximum depletion, such as 5Ah.
Maximum depletion is the point at which the low voltage cutoff kicks in. This is usually accounted for in determining charge capacity specs.
Ct451
The efficiency of converting the stored energy into electricity is dependent on the load. As soon as you have a load you get a voltage drop. There is never an ideal circumstance. There is always some wasted energy. Generally the lower internal resistance the better and there are a lot of other factors at play but the higher loads is what these packs can handle more efficiently.
All things being equal, in term of absolute numbers 2 cells will waste twice what 1 cell will. I just mentioned it as another inefficiency factor. The cells all have different internal resistances so usually only 1 has to be 100% “depleted”. The rest could still hold charge that was accounted for but you don’t have access to.
Anyway these are all ideas trying to explain their 50% more work but not 50% more capacity logic.
Stuart
It comes down to current draw and internal resistance, which is temperature-dependent. Yes, you get a voltage drop, dependent on the internal resistance.
The main energy loss is in the form of heat.
This isn’t related to the number of cells, but the physical and electrochemical properties of each battery cell, and yes the power draw.
Except for there are complex cooling consideration, energy losses should be proportional.
I misunderstood you to be saying a 5-cell 5Ah battery would be more efficient than a 10-cell 5Ah battery merely because of the fewer number of cells, which would be completely inaccurate.
More cells isn’t another “inefficiency factor.” If say there are 10% energy losses through heat, doubling the cells doesn’t change that number. Yes, the total energy loss from 2 cells will be higher, but you’re also starting with double the energy storage. Double the energy losses from double the amount of stored energy means that efficiency is independent of the number of cells.
This isn’t universally true, hence my mention of complex cooling considerations. If thermal dissipation is impeded due to the number of cells, that could change things.
Li-ion batteries within cordless power tool battery packs are balanced, specifically to avoid the type of circumstances you describe.
It mainly comes down to internal resistance and battery pack design.
Internal resistance at room temperature isn’t very important here, it’s the internal resistance and operating temperatures under load that essentially determine how much work is done per Watt-hour of energy storage before the low-voltage cutoff is reached.
Harrison
It’s still very much a 5Ah battery, it just drivers that capacity more consistently.
Under low-demand situations like a compact drill driver, or a work light, you will see no difference vs a standard 18650-based 5Ah pack.
Making heavy cuts with a reciprocating or 7 1/4 saw, you will still get your 5Ah worth, as the lower internal resistance of the cells will allow the higher current to still be delivered efficiently.
Under extreme temperatures, li-ion cells capacity is reduced, in which case a 5Ah pack might only deliver 3-4Ah before hitting its low voltage limit.
DrBob
Thanks for the comparison. Will be sharing with my Facebook group but your reviews related to the Powerstack and also Torque Test Channel do compliment well.
Thanks folks for the hard work.
eddie sky
Call me when they are $150 for twin pack which is around what the older 5Ah packs sell for.. (actually, sometimes under $140 for two).
Mike
Focus camera has the 2 pack for $110 right now.
John
For the 5ah? No way.
Nathan
it’s new tech so it’s no wonder the price is up there – but I wonder what the overall longevity is.
and eventually it will become the tool battery standard. I say 3-4 years from now all the top tier kits will come with them and a new charger will come out with customized charging for them. Give or take a moment.
John
Pout are they worth the price increase?
Stuart
It really depends on the individual user needs or wants; this is the performance and longevity choice.
For some it’s an instant upgrade. For others, their money might be better spent on less expensive batteries that offer greater value.
Ct451
Apparently you get 2 more volts in the US than you get in the UK.
https://www.dewalt.co.uk/product/dcbp518-xj/5ah-18v-powerstack-battery
Who knows how much of the price goes to fund these executive decisions.
Nate
In many places (EU for certain, and I believe UK also), there are regulations that you cannot advertise batteries based on peak voltage. The 20v Max is the peak voltage, but as soon as load is on the batteries, they will drop to a usable 18v. I’m currently in Korea, and seeing DeWalt advertised with 20v Max. I also see Bosch 12v advertised as 10.8v (which is the usable voltage). I personally don’t like the “20v Max” silliness, but I think it was a good move by SBD to distinguish their Li-Ion battery system from their previous Ni-Cad line (which also had 18 usable volts). Most customers won’t nerd out on the battery voltages and want the clarity that 18v NiCad batteries work with the legacy tools, and that 20v Max tools need 20v Max batteries. Marketing in each language and country costs money and takes effort and is just part of the game; a significant amount of your purchase price goes to that marketing. I’m amazed by the amount of marketing I am seeing for DeWalt in Korea. The prices for Makita here are quite good, I think due to the fact that Koreans generally don’t like buying Japanese products. Hikoki is really hard to find and expensive.
Stuart
This has been the case since the 20V Max line launched 11-1/2 years ago.
Ct451
I was making fun of marketing and what they perceive their audience will go for:Things with “MAX” in their name sell better than things without. Perhaps a 🙂 at the end would have depicted the tone of my comment better.
Stuart
Perhaps, but both of the statements you made reflect recurring sentiments, and I have learned to take such comments at face value.
Albert
Does anyone know who is the supplier of the pouch cells? I assume Dewalt is buying them from one of the large battery companies (Panasonic, Samsung, LG, CATL, etc) rather than making them themselves.
Stuart
Stanley Black & Decker has partnered with Amionx before, but there’s no confirmation they’re the pouch cell maker for PowerStack. They have partnered with other battery makers before, such as Prieto.
Pouch cells aren’t like the 18650 or 21700 cells sourced from established battery makers. I would bet that, regardless of the maker, the cells are all designed and engineered to spec.
Bob Adkins
All I know about Power Stack batteries is they are about 40% overpriced. Pouch batteries should be substantially cheaper to buy in bulk and to manufacture than normal cells. So I’m not playing that game. If it was substantially smaller, I might be tempted, but it’s only about 10% smaller. DeWalt’s 6ah pack is a good bit cheaper than the 5ah power stack and not much bigger, so that’s a no-brainer for power-hungry tools.
Big Richard
While it may not fully justify the price, these pouch cell based batteries *should* offer a longer lifespan. DeWalt claims twice the lifespan (1000 discharge cycles vs. 500), so in theory being twice as expensive would allow you to break even if you are a heavy user who is replacing batteries every couple.
Travis
I still have 18 volt packs from when they came out with the first lithium stem style for the old tools and can remember they claim 2000 recharge cycles. I bought them in 2007 and they still work great but the old ones were only 2 amp hours
Dave
Hello all, I am looking at these 5A (maybe 4A) batteries. Currently I have only the original 1.3A that came with my drill. Added some new tools recently, without battery. What I have not seen anywhere, is if I also need a new charger. Will the DCB107 at 1.25Amp charge a larger battery to capacity at all?
Stuart
Any Dewalt 20V Max charger can charge the PowerStack 5Ah battery – or any other Dewalt 20V Max battery. It’s just a matter of how long it will take.
Imagine your 1.3Ah (amp-hour) battery is like a 1.3 quart bucket. Turn on your faucet and fill up the bucket.
Now you have a 5.0Ah (amp-hour battery. Imagine it’s like a 5.0 quart bucket. Turn on your faucet and fill up the bucket.
The charging rate of a charger is analogous to the flow rate of a water faucet. It will fill up batteries with different charge capacities at the same rate but will take longer.
Now, what I say here is not universally true, it’s a generalization. In reality, some chargers will recharge certain batteries at different rates.
But when we’re talking about a 1.25A (amp) charger, it should take proportionally longer to recharge.
If a 1.5Ah battery is charged from 0 to 100% in 1 hour with your charger, a 3.0Ah battery will take 2 hours, and a 6.0Ah battery will take 4 hours.
gagan
finally got one stu!! two years later lol.
275 cad plus tax for a 5.0ah powerstack battery plus charger, free DCF923B (i didn’t want the 921, realised 3/8 is probably better. i’ll only ever need 1/2 drive for air, or so i believe).
now i’m wondering if the 1.7ah is something worth buying just in case. the 5.0ah is kind of heavy but i suspect if i’m ever unbolting an engine from a subframe, or subframe from a frame, wheels off a car, etc, the 5.0ah will be king.
you did a great job with the pictures, but i’m wondering if it’s going to help me manoeuvre in tight quarters better. may keep em peeled to find a 1.7Ah on sale or demo/return
loving the DCF923b though. really was worth wait, you were right. now i have bosch for 18V (the kit with GDR18v-1800C plus the GSR18V-535C with 2x 4.0Ah batteries plus the fast charger), milwaukee for 12v (got 2 m12 batteries for 80 CAD plus the rotary tool for 120 last june), and now dewalt for 20v.
patience ended up paying off and now i have the right tool for everything. the GDR18v was good for a lot of things. it managed to remove a few bolts holding the engine to the subframe, but not all.
gonna be nice not having to keep changing the chuck between a square head adapter or 1/4 hex bit.
first hog ring tool haha
Stuart
That’s always the best feeling!
George
List for $ 249 in Charlotte, NC