I have mentioned some of my Festool power tool and accessory purchases here on ToolGuyd before. You can see my previous reviews, previews, and other Festool tool coverage here.
I like to think that I can be objective and fair when talking about Festool tools. This sounds easy, but it’s not. When you deliberate about a tool purchasing decision and then plunk down a large chunk of change, you have already justified the purchase to yourself.
Advertisement
For example, buying a Festool dust extractor vacuum isn’t the same as buying a shop vacuum at the local home improvement store (or Sears – their Craftsman vacs are quite good). It’s a big investment, and the psychology is different.
It’s almost like dating someone vs. getting married. Buying a new $8 stamped utility kitchen knife vs. a $150 Santoku. A Festool purchase requires a higher level of financial investment, and thus there’s a certain level of higher mental commitment.
Keep in mind that I’m not a psychologist – my Dr. comes from a completely different field – I’m making this stuff up as I go along. But I hope it makes sense.
A Festool purchase isn’t willy-nilly for DIYers, woodworkers, or professionals. It’s almost always going to be a calculated and very well thought out decision.
In a recent comment in reply to my New Tool Buy: Festool MFT Table post, Evan asks:
I would love to hear an update on your thoughts about the table, and what justifies the price for a beginner woodworker.
Advertisement
The MFT/3 is tricky in this respect, as in some ways it is a great general purpose accessory workbench. But its utility is really tied to how well it pairs with Festool power tools and guide rails. The MFT multi-function table loses a lot of its benefits if you don’t use it with Festool power tools. Without its accessories, it is overpriced and maybe even too frail for general all-around needs.
That brought me to wonder about whether Festool tools are appropriate for beginner woodworkers. I would like to tell you that I thought long and hard about this question, but that’s simply not true. The answer came to me quickly.
Keep in mind that I have invested hard-earned personal money into Festool products. I have received tool samples at no cost, but also bought the tools and accessories I needed or wanted for personal use.
NO! Beginner woodworkers should NOT be buying Festool power tools.** They could, but they shouldn’t.
There are some exceptions. There are certain Festool tools that are uniquely functional such that they provide universal appeal and utility. Festool’s Systainers, Sortainers, and other such storage products are a great example. Another example is their drill dust collection nozzle, which should work great with a shop vacuum or even a household vacuum in a pinch.
There are 2 types of beginners: those who are just getting started and have no idea what they want to do, and those who have a better sense of what their needs are.
Beginner woodworkers who don’t have any idea about what they want to do should take the time to figure that before plunking down money for Festool tools.
Beginner woodworkers sometimes know what they want to do, or they might think they know what they want to do. A lot of times, a woodworker’s project ideas and tool needs change, sometimes drastically, and early on.
For the price of a Festool track saw, one could instead buy a good circular saw, a miter saw, and maybe even a portable table saw. Or a circular saw, some clamping guides, and a whole lot of hand tools.
Jumping into woodworking wallet-first, or into any hobby or interest wallet-first, is generally a bad idea.
**But if a beginner woodworker KNOWS that Festool tools are appropriate for their needs and wants, and have the budget for it, more power to them.
If a beginner knows that they might benefit most from a Festool tool, as opposed to whatever else they could buy with the same money, then who’s to argue or judge?
If a beginner can identify WHY they need a Festool tool over other less expensive options, then they can ignore most of everything else I said. But most often, beginners see the Festool hype – which is often deserved – and think they need to buy “the best.”
Don’t buy the best simply because that’s what you read on the internet, buy the best for your needs (and budget). Beginner woodworkers usually don’t know what’s best for their needs, because they might not even know what they need yet. Sometimes that will be Festool, sometimes not.
Plan, learn, buy, work, repeat X-number of times, and then buy Festool tools if they suit you.
What I’d like to avoid is encouraging beginners to:
Buy, plan, learn, complain or be discouraged, sell, buy something else, work.
Beginner-Friendly?
In response to James C’s comment, it’s not that Festool tools aren’t beginner-friendly, although some of them do have learning curves. But that beginners usually lack the experience to know whether a Festool tool is right for their needs.
Festool tools usually have more capabilities than most beginner woodworkers really need. How does a beginner woodworker know that a Festool circular saw, router, sander, jigsaw, or other power tool is best for their needs when they’ve never used any such tool before?
My point is that a beginner shouldn’t splurge for Festool tools – or other premium tools – before they know what they would use them for.
I suppose the same is true for other tool categories. You learn what you need through use and experience.
There are bound to be beginners saying “I heard that Festool’s circular saw is the best, should I buy that?” You should buy a Festool power tool when you know what you need in that kind of power tool. Maybe a Festool tool is the right tool for the job, but for beginners that’s usually not true.
A beginner woodworker might just need to make a couple of crosscuts in 2×4 wood boards. You don’t need a Festool track saw for that. If you need a clean-cutting plunge-cutting saw that can also more easily break down sheet goods with straight and crisp lines, and with minimal dust spewed into the air, that’s when you buy a Festool track saw and dust extraction combo. That is true for beginner, intermediate, advanced, or professional woodworkers, at least those that have the budget for it.
All I’m trying to say is that beginners should sit on their credit cards and choose their first purchases wisely. Don’t run out and buy a table saw either. For the longest time woodworking was centered around table saws, but that’s no longer true.
“I want to get into woodworking and need to buy a table saw, which one do you recommend?”
Well what do you want to use the table saw for?
“Umm… I need a table saw to do woodworking.”
Why?
If you can’t explain why you need a table saw, you probably don’t need a table saw. Insert “Festool power tool” in place of “table saw” and hopefully my point is clearer.
I have known people who jumped into woodworking and started buying tools before they knew what their first project to be! The reader’s question about Festool’s MFT table was a valid one, as I too had eyeballed it for a while wondering the same thing myself – whether it would be suitable for general purpose use. I bought mine not as a general purpose bench, but because it would expand how I could use my existing Festool tools, and make certain cutting tasks quicker and easier to accomplish.
So Evan, if you’ve read this far, I’m not at all talking about you here. Your question was a pretty good one, but it also made me think about all of the beginners who buy tools before an idea or project is even in the planning stage.
If you’re a beginner, plan out some projects, buy a couple of tools as needed, complete those projects, figure out what kind of woodworking you like best, and then go from there. There’s plenty of time to spend money.
It’s Not Just About Festool
While I’m focusing on Festool as a power tool brand that beginners probably shouldn’t look at, similar things can be said about certain brands of hand tools and stationary equipment.
Although not at all about woodworking or tools at all, another memory came to the surface.
“I want to get into photography, do you think I should get this [expensive dSLR camera] and [expensive lens] or a [slightly less expensive dSLR camera] with [more expensive lens]?”
Okay, what kind of photography do you want to do?
*Blank Stare*
What do you take photos of now?
“Not much of anything.”
So I told my friend to take 200 photos with the prosumer digital camera he already owned and then we’d talk. After 6 months I checked back and he took maybe 10 photos. He still couldn’t tell me what his needs were – only that he wanted a camera that “takes good pictures.”
What I’m trying to get at, and perhaps I didn’t make this as clearly as I intended, is that it’s not a good idea for a beginner to buy Festool tools – or any other premium-tiered tools – before they know what they need or want them for.
Maybe Festool Tools are Okay for Beginners After All?
Well of course they’re okay for beginners.
MT_Noob
To be honest, after seeing the track saw tear-down that AVE did on his youtube channel, I am beginning to second guess my desire to get Festool items. I do love the track saw and vacuum that I bought. But I am wondering if their premium price is really worth it or if other brands are comparable for the same or less cost.
If you have not seen the video, it is a fun one to watch.
https://youtu.be/oezp-_DcUgg
I have no intention of starting a war about one brand or another, but this video did make me wonder how much of my desire for Festool might just be good marketing.
Dominic van Lievenoogen
I Think you buy festool for other reasons then getting the ‘best performing’ or ‘best durability’ out there. Those 2 are not what festool products are known for.
Festool products have all the features, all the knobs and buttons in just the right position. All their products work easily together in a ‘system ‘.
They’re downright handy.
A Festool Cavex will never win a speed battle against the top model jigsaw of Makita / Bosch/etc…
A Kapex will not win the speed of cut battle from Makita’s Ls1216 / Bosch GCM12 / etc…
The festool products WILL win in terms of handyness / ease of use / functions etc…
Durability is another story, and a hard one at that. Ave’s look at the prized TS55 gets you thinking. That’s a few cheap ass solutions they incorporated there.
MT_Noob
Wow, I had not really thought of it in those terms, but I think you nailed it right on the head. It makes perfect sense when you look at it from the way you described it.
Thanks,
Stuart
He isn’t the first to criticize Festool for using plastic in certain areas, but as far as I’m concerned, the sum of the parts is also important.
Festool’s saws are solidly built – in my experience – and I still haven’t identified a weak point in mine. Well, maybe the metric depth adjustment scale, but that’s about it.
Festool does a great job of drumming up hype for their products, but you’ll find a lot of very vocal and satisfied users. At least some of those users are drawing from their self-justification, but I like to think that others, like myself (or at least how I see myself) are able to judge things objectively.
Diplomatic Immunity
As someone that is looking to get into woodworking I’m thinking money would be better spent on a bandsaw (or a table saw if you plan on ripping sheets). A bandsaw however allows you to resaw your own wood from logs thereby hopefully saving you money overall. Or you could buy all the hand tools you might need like good chisels, planes, and saws and if you have money left over a router maybe. All these options can be close to the same price as a Festool tracksaw.
For me it would be a toss up between Fein and Festool for quiet dust extraction though.
From what I gather a person should buy Festool equipment when they are serious about woodworking or it’s more than just a hobby. Also it seems as though Mafell is for serious woodworkers that might have to abuse their tools more. They seem more robust overall than Festool.
Eric
Ripping large sheet goods is no fun on a table saw. I would much rather have a panel saw or a good circular saw with a good set of guides.
Stuart
That’s really what I’m trying to say.
A beginner might not know whether they need a band saw or a table saw, track saw or jigsaw.
For dust extraction, I prefer Festool. I like Fein’s vac too, but feel that it’s more for cleanup tasks.
James C
Do Festool products have features that aren’t conducive to people at beginner skill levels, or are we making broad economic assumptions about beginners? I’m more interested in the first question.
JMG
I do not think that a brands compatibility with a certain skill level is the question. It really boils down to experience with a particular tool type, pertaining to how much use it will receive or how well it fits the process, that gives it a continued value to the person using it. Most people just starting out make tool buying decisions that are not always the best for the long term. It is this learning process of what you will use on a regular basis and for the long term that will guide the later, more informed, purchases of tools that will stand the test of time in your tool inventory. Purchasing an inexpensive tool to start can be a better choice over spending large amounts of money on a tool or system that may or may not see continued use. If you wear out the inexpensive item from constant use, then it makes sense to take the knowledge learned from that experience and apply it to making your decision in its replacement, and whether or not you would use the same type of tool for the particular process you need a tool for, or to purchase a more expensive alternative, or to purchase the same item that you wore out.
I agree with Stuart, in that Festool is not generally a beginners choice for the above reasons. There is too large of a chance to spend a lot of money on a tool setup that might end up being used only once or twice, never recouping it’s cost.
James C
I totally get that, and agree with it, but the question was “what justifies the price for a beginner woodworker?”
Price justification is subjective. Person A may not bat an eye at a $500 jigsaw while Person B can’t afford a $10 coping saw.
I guess Stuart left out a key piece of this question – budget.
So, without any assumptions on budget, would this be a good choice skill-wise for a beginner? Are Festool tools any more or less user friendly for novices than other brands? I think that’s an interesting question (and one I don’t have an informed opinion on).
Stuart
Skill-wise, Festool tools have more of a learning curve because many can do more and often have more adjustments.
My thoughts on budget are complex, as I remember how it felt to spend $10, $50, and $200 10 years ago, 5 years ago, and today.
For a beginner woodworker with an unlimited budget? Absolutely buy Festool tools, there’s little reason not to – if those are the tool types you need for your projects. There are some Festool tools that I wouldn’t buy compared to non-Festool equivalents, but that’s based on my preferences and needs.
If anything, Festool tools might be more beginner-friendly, as there is a wealth of information out there. Then again, a how-to that shows one brand of standard style circular saw can be followed the same for 10 other brands of circular saws.
Stuart
Sometimes, yes. I added to the post since you last commented.
Take the Festool Carvex:
https://14cyiuhvcgv.com/festool-carvex-jigsaw/%3C/a%3E%3Cbr /> https://14cyiuhvcgv.com/festool-carvex-jigsaw-review-part-1-price/%3C/a%3E%3C/p%3E
You might notice that there is no Part 2 or 3 as initially intended. I just don’t like the Carvex, as it’s too much for what I need in a jig saw. It’s a good saw, but it’s definitely not the best choice for beginners.
John Blair
This is a questions with no logical answer for everyone.
Let’s start with the premise that having the right tool for the job makes the job easier and the results better. If you are cross cutting boards, you can do it on a table saw, a miter saw, a circular saw, a bandsaw, a jigsaw, a handsaw… etc. If you are doing one and precision doesn’t matter, any of those work great. If you are doing 20 and they all need to be the same length, some of those are … ummm.. sub optimal solutions.
This leads me to believe that there is a critical mass of tools one must own before they can do some projects. Obviously making a dresser requires way more tools than knocking together a shelf for a college dorm room.
So if by beginner you mean someone without any tools, their money would be better spent getting a broader collection of tools. Some good hands tools and 12v / 18v cordless tools is probably a better start for someone who wants to be a handy. Starting with the $1400 Festool Kapex miter saw is probably a bad idea.
But now lets say by beginner you mean skill. This person has a table saw, a jig saw, a miter saw, some cordless tools but their results aren’t great. This is a person who can consider some judicious Festool purchases.
For example, cross cutting sheet good on a table saw when you aren’t experienced is dangerous. A TS55 is great for a beginner. It is much safer and will give them significantly better results than they would get with their other tools. It increases their capabilities. Another example is loose tenon joinery is much easier with a Festool Domino for a beginner than actually making mortise and tenon joinery. But you really have to want that capability a lot to spend $1,000 for the unit and a collection of dominoes.
I completely agree with you, you need to have some project in mind before you go out and buy something. I know people who buy tools for a project and as soon as the project is over they sell it. Sometimes I think they are crazy but they sure have a lot of room in their garage and they rarely start a project that they don’t finish.
Ed
In my opinion you should buy the best tools you can afford. A woodworkers results will not vary much between using festool versus other quality tool brands, key word “quality”. What will affect your results is your skill level, that doesn’t come packed in a systainer. The skill level comes with lots of practice and lots of mistakes. I have a Makita track saw that probably cost half as much as a Festool and produces great results.
William
I have had the same internal battle going on: buy Festool or something else. Tw examples come to mind. 1) My local Woodcraft store had a scratch and dent Festool Rotex sander. Normally a $400+ sander it was available for around $200. That’s a great price for the sander, however I couldn’t justify spending $200 on a sander. I also factored in the price of consumables. The special festool sandpaper is 2-3 times more than “regular” sandpaper.
2) I was deciding between the DeWalt and Festool track saws. Personally I believe the TS55 is the most reasonably priced tool Festool offers. I considered the other accessories too. The festool track required to cut an 8′ piece of plywood cost over $300, on top of the original kit purchase. The comparable track came with the DeWalt kit.
Too me, you have to look at the whole system. Festool is an island. Most tools only work with their products and accessories. I compare them to Apple. Each Apple product will work on its own. But in order to get the most out of the product you need the system. Same as Festool. They are islands.
Jerry
I think a Festool for a begenning woodworker is like a Cadillac for a begenning driver. Not necessarily bad, but for the vast majority, far more than the need.
Creighton
I personally find that there is no product they make that I need. There are so many others out there that suits me just fine. I work in the full spectrum of house repair building etc. And Festools aren’t even on my radar.
John
I don’t know if I totally agree that a beginner has no reason buying Festool. You could make the same argument that a non professional should just buy a el cheapo tool.
Not all my tools are Festool, but when it comes to accuracy and the “system” it’s worth the cost. Festool is like Apple. They sell a “total experience” and a system that you’re buying into and yes you pay a premium for that. But I can tell you I’ve wasted far far far more money with “workarounds” and tools that get me to only 70% of my goal. If I’d just started into the system in the first place I’d have a heck of a lot less junk tools and garbage workarounds not to mention far more money in my pocket which includes resources like wood and steel which get wasted on those alternatives.
I think the question should be should a beginner buy blindly without a plan or guidance? Heck no. Find an old fogey apprentice with him a while get the foundations. Then figure out what you’re trying to accomplish and your long term goals. Do you have the time to rig up a workaround which will never be as accurate as a full system? Do you have the space for non-compact equipment? Another plus that Festool offers is compactness for small work spaces. Then after planning and learning the foundations then have no qualms buying the best tool or system you can afford which meets those.
Also I’d like to say, don’t worry what people think of what you buy. To hell with them if you wanna blow 3 grand on a vacuum. It’s your money and if this is your hobby and not your job and makes you happy and you can afford it, do it. Judgement on people’s purchases so sickening.
Stuart
If you’re a beginner woodworker and KNOW that a Festool power tool will serve you well, and you’ve got the cash, by all means the more power to you.
But I have heard all too often:
I want to get into woodworking and need Tool A, Tool B, Tool C, Tool D, etc.
Why? What kind of projects do you want to work on?
*Blank stare*
Do you have any idea what you want to make?
*Blank stare*
John
Sure no argument there. I think planning is what I mentioned being very important as well as learning foundations. But I don’t think Festool itself is the bar for entry or some kind of skill deliminator. If you’re willing to buy into their ecosystem and can afford it, it works well. Is it the best? Probably not in all cases and depends on your plans and what you’re trying to accomplish. But like I said Festool is a “total experience” system and environment you’re buying into. Their way of doing things, their consumables (most of the time) . Like I don’t, myself, consider their drill worth it when I gotta worry about some proprietary bit atatchment process.
I fully agree with you though I’d say in any endeavor blindly pouring money and buying the highest price anything without some knowledge or idea and plan what you want to do is pretty unwise in itself. Have a plan first and goal. Go ahead to a Festool rep see what they say and try out their stuff play with it in your hands. Try out competitors, read books, watch videos, and research. Heck I live next door to 4 70+ year old wood workers who love the company and gladly show foundations, have probably the best equipment anyway to teach you, and can sure use the extra set of hands to help.
My only qualm is this kinda “hater” mentality I run into when you say you have a Festool. Like “Oh more money than sense” or that it’s some kinda elitist group to be part of or you’re some kind of “fan boy”. No other name seems to do that as quickly as Festool. It’s a tool, if it serves your need and makes you happy go for it.
John
Sorry I mean when ” I say to someone” that I have a Festool tool not “you” of course. I don’t mean to imply in any way your article or replies are that just to be clear. I have much respect to your fair and balanced analysis and journalism, open mindedness, and honesty. So I’m a big fan of your site and articles.
Stuart
Don’t worry, I know what you meant.
I edited the post prior to your first comment. Before that, I had quite a bit more about my own purchases.
There are lots of fanboys, but also a lot of haters, almost cancelling each other out.
Hugh
You must run into quit a few festool peps drinking that neon green and blue cool-aid. I have festool tools and enjoy what they can do for me. I don’t believe I’m greater than another person because I own them. I talk constantly with other tradesmen that love there bosch, dewalt etc tools, and seem to be perfectly happy with the quality they can deliver with them. I trained with a carpenter that could do phenomenal things with a sawzall. It comes down to skill and talent, carpenters have been masters with out festool and some masters may never use them.
If a person were buying festool tools just to look down on others that would be sophomoric and a waste of money.
Joel
The benefit in buying better tools, even as a beginner, is that they can make some tasks easier or easier to complete with precision. A beginner, by definition, lacks knowledge and experience, so anything that can help them do better work as they build that base of knowledge and experience is a good thing.
Even if they only use 20% of the features of a given tool in the beginning, eventually they’ll start a project that requires something more complex. It’s great to realize that you can accomplish that task with the tool you already own rather than having to buy a new one.
Stuart
That’s my point, though.
Too often, beginners might not know what they want to do, and so they buy tools that might not fit their needs.
It sucks to realize that you cannot accomplish what you want to do because you spent all your money on the completely wrong tool and have to save up to buy something else.
Chris Fyfe
If you have the interest , and the cash , why not . BTW , on some ” away missions ” the Carvex + accessories and an M12 Fuel Recip , and Circ . Are the only saws I carry .
Chris
Derek
Until you know it’s something you enjoy it’s foolish to spend lots of money on a hobby. People do it all the time and that’s how we get deals on things on craigslist and yard sales.
$700 for a track saw can buy you a jigsaw, sliding miter saw, circular saw, cordless drill, kreg pocket hole jig and you’ll still have money left over for a sander or trim router depending on what you get.
That’s what I’ve done over the past 2 years. I would love a track saw (Festool, Dewalt, etc.) I’ve come to realize I don’t use sheet goods that often and would much rather a contractor type table saw. I’m sure eventually I’ll upgrade some tools, but limited time and resources prohibit that.
devin
Me and my father started our first woodworking project together recently creating a coffee table from an old wine barrel. We started the project without any festool tools and just winging the project. Now we have the t18+3, MfT, CT 26, carvex, kapex, of 2200, ro 90, rs2, ts55, and mft3. Of course festools are expensive, being able to purchase all of those was a great asset for beginners like us. You learn very quickly that the right tools make all of the difference. Not only the tools that work so nicely with the tables but the big thing is the vac. The dust extraction not only makes it so clean up is easy but working with white oak there is no wood shaving that are very irritating. I say yes the tools are for beginners because the ease of use makes them very nice to use.
Derek
That’s one expense coffee table, Over $6,000 in tools plus materials.
Mike
Festool is like Jimi Hendrix way overrated, twice the price and can’t even compete with Dewalt,Milwaukee Makita or Bosch so why would you buy it, just because it cost more you thought it would be better.
Mark S.
I respectfully disagree – not one of those companies’ primary targets is the woodworking community. That’s like comparing Jimi Hendrix to Neal Peart – both are musicians but one’s a guitarist and the other’s a drummer. Festool has put a ton of time and effort into their tool designs and the beginning woodworker can benefit from this simplicity of design.
That being said, the cost is harder to justify for a casual woodworker like myself. A Carvex jigsaw is going to trump my basic B&D or Ryobi jigsaw but that level of control isn’t what I need. A Kapex miter saw would be superior in cutting accuracy than my Kobalt miter saw but I don’t really cut miters so I don’t need superior accuracy. A T55 track saw is worlds away from most portable table saws in terms of ease of use and noise pollution but as I need neither (don’t break down sheet goods myself, have the pros do it for me), I can’t justify the expense.
Fran Tark
As a woodworker myself I can tell you that high quality tools will make some difference, but what really makes the difference is putting in the time to learn how to build. A festool domino will create a better butt joint than a kreg pocket hole but it’s a lot more expensive. New woodworkers need to worry about making as much sawdust as possible before plunking down $1000’s for tools.
My analogy: I think kids need to learn how drive on older cars, stick shift, no power brakes, no power steering, bad window seals etc to know what 65mph really feels like. They need to learn to slide the cars around and use the e-brake. Learn real car control. Learning how to drive in mom’s escalade leads to overconfidence and a lot more accidents. It’s too easy.
Same with tools. Learn on the cheaper stuff and then you can appreciate the finer differences. And if you bust up a 1985 black and decker jig saw by repeatedly pulling it out of the cut before it stops, it’s better than doing the same thing to a new festool.
And teach every new woodworker you know that sharp beats dull every time. Sharpen, sharpen, sharpen. A crap tool with a good blade always beats a great tool with a dull blade.
John S
Two benefits of buying Festools that have not yet been mentioned I do not think:
1) You can test it for 30 days. As a beginner, you could buy it for a project and then return it if it doesn’t meet your needs.
2) You can sell it back for most (80-90%) of its value (used a lot or untouched), especially after the price is raised at the end of the year. You definitely cannot do that with other tools, even if they are untouched.
Chris Fyfe
Some of their offerings , like the CSX drill system can get you outta a lot of jams .
Chris
robert
Horses for courses.
Everybodies’ situations is be different.
ketan khandekar
hello everybody,
my name is ketan khandekar and in live in pune city in maharashtra state in india.i am a complete beginner to woodworking and have seen a lot of good videos and customer testimonials of festool power tools.i want to know just how durable and reliable are these tools.i also want to know whether the motors of these tools are good or bad and also durable.my friend had suggested me to buy these tools which i have no problem doing but now that i have read the above article i am having second thoughts.would some be so kind enough as to guide me in this aspect.your help will be most appreciated.
thanking you,
yours sincerely,
ketan khandekar
Rick
I only own one festool. And it’s a Domino xl. There’s nothing like it on the market.
I’m not a pro. I am not even that good at wood working. But this tool saves me time.
Precision is the key to everything. If your precise, without a.lot of family fair. Your free to create and not worry about the mechanics.
The domino XL + accessory, tenon’s, systainers, etc. Are easily double that of the ts55. I’m still not getting the ts55.