The new Festool Vac Sys workholding system started shipping out this month, so you might have already heard about it from retailer or Festool newsletters.
In a nutshell, the Festool Vac Sys is a vacuum-based work vise that can securely clamp onto non-porous workpieces and surfaces.
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It’s designed to give you full 360° access to your workpiece, and also pivots for greater flexibility.
What’s it For?
According to Festool, the Vac Sys system is a fast, easy, and highly maneuverable solution for almost any clamping application.
Applications mentioned in the press release include:
- Panel preparation
- Edge banding
- Trimming
- Sanding
- Final Finishing
- Clamping narrow stock for mortising
- Clamp doors final sizing, boring, or adding hardware
Components
This is what you get with their $1300 starter system, model no. 57000003:
- Vac PMP vacuum pump ($800 separately, 201064)
- Vac SYS SE 1 clamping module ($550 separately, 201065)
- Round vacuum cup with 8.4″ diameter
- Foot valve FV (not shown in the above photo)
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There is also a Festool Vac Sys System Set, model no. 57000004, which is priced at $1800. The Set adds a second clamping module to the starter system:
- Vac PMP vacuum pump
- Vac SYS SE 1 clamping module
- Clamping Module SE 2 ($550 separately)
- Oblong vacuum pod
- Additional hoses and fittings
The clamping modules, at least the ones sold separately, include Systainer 4 sized tool boxes.
What’s Nice About it?
It seems nice to be able to control the vacuum pressure and clamping capabilities with a foot valve. My guess is that the foot valve simply releases the vacuum, essentially creating a short circuit that releases or reduces the holding power of the clamp.
It’s expandable.
You can add a second clamping module, if necessary. It looks like this would be for increased stability when supporting larger workpieces. Maybe you can add a second foot valve for semi-independent control, but I doubt it.
There are several different vacuum cup clamp heads available:
- Round Cup, 8.4″ wide (standard)
- Oblong, 10.8″ x 3.9″ ($120)
- Small Oblong, 7.8″ x 2.36″ ($100)
- Narrow Cup, 10.9″ x 1.25″ ($150)
- 3pc oblong and narrow cup set, 495294 ($350)
Unless you plan to always stick with workpieces 8.4″ wide or wider, you’ll probably have to buy at least one of the oblong or narrow cup attachments.
Festool has also come up with an MFT clamp ($250), which looks to attach to the edge of your MFT table. It has a hinge, so that you can swing a clamp back and forth, to the top of the MFT surface for use, and to the bottom for storage.
There is one other accessory available right now – a 5 meter hose ($100) that lets you work a greater distance from the vacuum pump.
USA vs. International Differences
Overseas, the vacuum pump is built into a Festool Systainer. Here, the vacuum pump is a separate piece of equipment and it doesn’t fit into a Systainer, or at least it doens’t come with one.
Obligatory Promo Video
First Thoughts
I had the opportunity to watch a brief demo at a recent Woodworking Show, and was not terribly impressed. Maybe that’s because I looked up the price beforehand and knew that the starter set is $1,300.
Or maybe I was underwhelmed because the demo didn’t show off the full potential of the system?
And by “demo,” it was really a show and tell between the seller and another Show attendee that was asking questions.
If you ignore the price, and just watch Festool’s promo videos, the Vac Sys system does look amazing.
Festool doesn’t provide specs for the vacuum pump on its product page (yet?). I’m hoping they do, because it might allow for interested parties to source a 3rd party vacuum pump. Doing so could potentially shave a few hundred dollars off the price of the system.
$800 for a vacuum pump? Okay, maybe the continuous duty part bumps the price up a little, and the CFP probably too. That thing probably has to move a lot of air to support heavy wooden workpieces, especially at right angles where vacuum suction should be weakest.
Some of the accessory prices are a little high as well. $250 for the hinged MFT clamp? Maybe the hinge has sapphire or ruby bearings, or something like that.
The “this is for clamping non-porous materials” part has me a little worried. Festool USA shows the unit being used to clamp a piece of hardwood that looks to be unfinished (scroll back up to see it). Does that still count as non-porous? Because I generally cannot vacuum-clamp anything to my unfinished butcher block-topped workbenches.
While the setup looks amazing, the price is going to be a problem for less benefited users.
One more benefit – the system should be non-marring, at least compared to what could potentially be done using other physical workholding methods. A vise, even with leather-faced jaws, still has the potential to mar a delicate or finished work surface.
And even if you’re thinking that you could use Bench Cookies or similar apparatuses, I don’t think they would provide as quick or as flexible of a workholding experience.
I also wonder about how portable the system is. But is there even an interest in setting up something like this onsite?
I have plenty of other questions about the system that I suppose will only be answered with time, when user reviews and demos start pouring in. For instance, do the clamping modules channel some of the vacuum pressure to their bases, to lock them down to whatever surface they’re on?
And before anyone else mentions it, Lee Valley offers a vacuum clamp system that works off of an 80 PSI and 1 CFM or 2 CFM air compressor system. That requires a lot more DIY work to match up with the Festool Vac Sys system’s capabilities, but it’s much more affordable.
With everything said, I do think that the Festool Vac Sys looks to be a solution to a problem, dependant on whether it works as well as advertised, of course. I know that a lot of us are just wishing it wasn’t so darned expensive.
What do you think about the new Festool Vac System vacuum clamping system?
Jerry
I doubt it has to move a lot of air volume as much as reliably pull a strong continuous vacuum. I recently watched a Mythbusters rerun where they lifted an entire car using the power of a single shop vac. Getting a good enough seal and balancing the lifting point were their biggest challenges. I wonder if the attachments arent as important as the vacuum source.
Patrick
While cool in concept it often seems to me that Festool is sometimes trying to hard to over engineer a solution to a problem that’s not that big to begin with. I have a real hard time justifying this as a solution when for $1100 dollars less you can buy a set of clamps with non marring pads and a vice that will do the job almost as well and be more versatile while doing it. This has always perplexed me about Festool, it seems as if the spit in the face of the “keep it simple stupid” principles.
Zachary
Would you expect any less from the Germans? Why make something simple when you can make it as complicated as possible.
Shawn
I thought as you did but got a pair for Christmas. It is pretty cool to flip and rotate large panels such as a nearly 2″ thick headboard weighing well over 100 lbs.
As to whether they are worth it, that seems to be personal judgement. Still not sure I would spend that much for what I do but the versatility and ease of use compared to clamps is not inconsequential, especially with large panels. I have used them with solid hardwood doors and large table tops. If I regularly worked with them I would buy these in a heartbeat. I use them with other things but a good workbench is often a better solution, particularly with smaller parts.
fred
As you say – time will tell once folks get to using it. Maybe Tom Silva on TOH will spotlight it – as he seems to use a lot of Festool products . A recent episode saw him using a Festool Conturo portable edgebander ($3200 for the kit). I’m never quite sure if he just really likes the Festool offerings – or if TOH gets some donated to them (as in advertising placement) or both.
P
If you watch the episode where he gets the Festool Drill (it’s an early one) it definitely feels like product placement. On the other hand, I get the feeling he’d buy the Kapex himself.
BikerDad
I suspect one advantage to it may be that it’s quiet. At least, I hope so. Still, $800 for the vacuum pump is insane, even by Festool’s standards. You can get an American made vacuum pump for 1/3 the price!! I shudder to think what a Taiwanese unit would cost.
IF they do the frequent Festool move of using proprietary fittings and such, it will be even more difficult for it to make headway in the market. Yes, the idea of having a vacuum based pattern maker/carvers vise (which is essentially what we’re talking about here) is a good one, but in the age of CNC and CAD/CAM, is there really enough of a market to support it? At that cost?
From an engineering and application standpoint, it strikes me as near brilliant. From a market standpoint? I am skeptical….
Of course, Festool has managed to stay in business so far, so they clearly have been doing something right…
John
I love Festool, but I’m no blind fanboy and even I think the prices are wildly crazy at times and just not justifiable. What gets me upset are once you buy into a system of theirs it’s the accessories that absolutely kill you. You’d think once you made the initial big purchase they’d insentivise you staying in that system with cheaper accessories. Take for example their drill, expensive yes, but wait till you find it has a proprietary chuck and every Centrotec bit is 20 times more than a standard equivalent. That 5 meter hose extension for this clamp at $100 is obscene and just insulting priced.
fred
Exactly _ I bought their track saw – and then the accessories started adding up mightily. While no one was twisting my arm to buy it – when I purchased their FS 2700 (491937) track – the $320 (with sales tax) that I shelled out for it gave me pause for thought. At 2.7 meters long its a nice piece of aluminum extrusion – but $320 seemed more than a bit excessive. Had their 482107 guide rail connector ($18 – also IMO excessive) worked well for me – I might have saved a bundle – but ah well. The only solace is that I’ve used it to good effect – and the base price is going up to $331 come April 1.
BTW – I’ve seen a fairly new connector gizmo from Betterley (their part # SLC23) that is said to do a great job with connecting rails together. The bad news is that it costs something like $100.
Stuart
For the longest time I’ve been meaning to buy a pair of their clamps, but at $39 each, it’s a tough sell.
Then again, one of my Jorgensen clamps (https://14cyiuhvcgv.com/jorgensen-gear-clamp-review/%3C/a%3E%29 just popped apart and I can’t find the pin that holds the moving jaw.
For the Festool accessories I really need and can justify, I drive myself to the understanding that their prices are what they are because they have everything made exactly the way they want them.
If I want a product that is tweaked around a target price, I buy a different brand’s offerings.
John
I assume you’re talking about the Festool Quick Clamp. It is a great clamp and I can see the value in it even at its price its justifiable if for the fact it is stand alone and can be used in a whole lot more than just Festool systems and even more so used across multiple systems. Its just I don’t understand the pricing consistency. How is that clamp worth less than half of a 5 meter clear plastic tube at $100 and the clamp is $39? Look for example the Festool Kapex Miter Saw Clamping Kit. You pay $1400 for the saw (which I love to death and is definitely worth the price) and then you pay $25 dollars for literally two 1/4 inch bolts? Again compare that to the clamp at $39 and 2 bolts is $25? Its just so bizarre at times and I can’t get my head around the pricing mentality.
fred
But that Festool 494693 Kapex clamping kit adds 2 nice plastic ends to the bolts (that must add mightily LOL) – and most vendors give you free shipping – so their cost must be substantially less than Festool’s current $22 list price.
The same with the FS2700 track that I was grousing about. Amazon shipped it to me in a custom made crate – cheap kind of rough oak and thin plywood – but still costly to make – shipped by a small freight company (not UPS or FedEx) and delivered to me via a scheduled delivery van. All this was included in my cost which was the Festool List Price.
Fulton fine woodworks
I had the chance to play with the new product today. Answers to three comments.
– Yes it does allow the suction to connect itself to a base just doesnt work on mft top due to the holes.
-no it does not require a slick surface. I put a 8′ wet pressure treated 4×4 to it and could not pull it off
– this old house and festool have no product placement agreements. I have actually talked to Tom Silva about this, he brings his own festool tools when you see him using. They would prefer he used porter cable. And he does for the non intricate or important work! 🙂 they do their best to cover up the festool logos however.
JMG
Back in the late 90s, I sustained an injury that left me without the use of one of my arms for an extended period of time. Due to various circumstances I was unable to stop working on the existing backlog of projects and found myself in need of tool aids like this product. As I could find no company that would give me a bid to produce what I needed at that time, I spent approximately three months “spare” time developing what I needed to work unaided (with the help of my brother).
I ended up producing a proto-type lift that could pick sheet material from a horizontal position and move it to my vertical panel saw, and as an offshoot ended up with a couple of fixtures that would hold some parts at the work bench so that I could rout edges and whatnot. The critical part of these systems were the suction pads themselves. The vacuum generators were secondary and I ended up using some fairly inexpensive compressed air units, primarily due to the minimal size of the units.
Having done this, the pricing that Festool is charging does not surprise me in the least, and if some form of their offerings had been available to me back then, I would still own them now. However, today, if I find myself needing to hold something in place with vacuum, modifying or fabbing a unit from parts I still have is what happens.
John
Never bought Festool as all their tools are ridiculous prices……just like this setup!
JMG
While the price may seem high to you, I would challenge you to build something that has the same functionality on your own. By the time you add in your own labor into the mix, I am fairly certain that you would begin to see that the pricing is not totally out of line. In truth, it might be a bit of a wash.
I do not currently own any Festool products myself, but there are some that are on my list of items to purchase if and when I reach a point in my current project that they could be of use. While I do agree that their pricing can be a bit over the top on many items, there are some tool systems in their line-up, in my opinion, that are not out of line.
toolaholic
well said
Senti
I’ve found in my career that the more quality the tool the better and easier for you to work. Take for example pro chef’s knives or artists brushes. There are the cheap ones that everyone feels work fine for them and then the ones professionals use that are much more expensive and make work easier. I find some festools are a good investment, but you don’t need all their tools just those that can help you achieve your goal and make life a little easier.
Jay
I am thinking of purchasing the Vac Sys System set. I have many Festool tools and have never looked back and said if I had to do this over again I would not buy them. They are as advertised. SUPER!! My concern with the purchase of the Vac Sys is definitely the price this time around. I am a hobbyist and do some furniture and cabinet making, but wonder in my mind whether this would actually be justified. If the complete system was priced at the $1300.00 price line, I would not hesitate to purchase this tool. I can’t see Festool putting this item on sale in the near future. Still a big fan of Festool, but I think this time I’m going to have to pass.