The new Festool CSC SYS 50 cordless table saw has been out for a couple of months now, and we’ve heard about some problems with it.
The most common complaint so far has been about alignment issues, which one wouldn’t expect to see on a Festool product, let alone what’s supposed to be a high-precision saw
Early adopters have been complaining that the table saw’s table, sliding table, and extension table are not aligned or coplaner out of the box, requiring users to fix and adjust the tools themselves.
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Some users have taken to fixing the sliding table alignment with playing cards or other types of shims.
One user shimmed their saw and then reported the table saw’s blade angle didn’t match the settings at 45°.
A ToolGuyd reader reported a different kind of problem. Mike shared that, after shimming his Festool cordless table saw’s sliding table to compensate for its out-of-the-box tilt issue, he discovered that the very center of the table isn’t flat.
So, in addition to being tilted out of the box, the sliding table is cupped.
Mike says that Festool customer service responded, and said that they said the extruded table is intentionally cupped.
Looking online to see if anyone else has reported this, I found one other user saying that their table is slightly deformed upwards around the blade opening.
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We reached out to Festool USA and asked them to comment about the issues, if they will be fixed on future production batches, and if all users should expect to have to shim the table. We also requested a loaner to check out the problems firsthand.
We gave them a full business day to respond and were told they are working on a statement.
Update: Festool USA’s Response
Thanks for sharing your concerns regarding the new CSC SYS 50. It is common when a new product comes to market with a new design and use of technology that some may be skeptical and extra critical of the product and its components. In the case of the CSC SYS 50 we have not had any reported defects concerning the high-pressure cast top. It is purely cast and not machined like a cast iron saw might be; however, we hold a tight tolerance for these tops and if there is truly any defect with the top, it most likely will not be corrected with shims and would have to be replaced. The head of our service department says that they have only replaced one top since the machine was introduced. That top was for a machine that the customer dropped and it caused one corner to be chipped. If the concern is regarding the sliding table mechanism, again shims should not be needed. The sliding table itself is extruded aluminum (using the same processes we use with our guide rails) and also have a tight tolerance for flatness. Some consumers expect that this sliding table should be coplanar with the cast top that is mentioned above. This is not how sliding tables should be set up. The sliding table surface should be slightly proud of the cast portion of the top. This can be adjusted by the consumer if they desire by quite a significant range above and below the cast surface. In case of concern, we suggest customers to contact us directly. Our phone number is right on the tool and we have application and technical staff prepared to support any inquiries.
I have seen some complaints about coplanarity, but the bulk of the complaints seem to be about the sliding table not being flat or in parallel alignment with the cast top, with shims needed to compensate for the tilt.
The misalignment seems to vary, with users reporting a deviation of up to 1°.
Mike wrote:
After spending about two hours fiddling with this and settling on the solution [playing cards as tilt shims], I did call Festool.
When I explained the problem to the “applications” customer service agent, his response was that “the sliding table should be higher than the saw body in order to allow for the clearance necessary for the cut.”
I explained several times that what I was describing was that the table itself was not level from right to left but after several minutes, it became apparent that my best course of action is to send the saw in.
I found a video showing what looks to be the problem some early adopters are complaining about:
So here’s the question – isn’t the sliding table supposed to be flat and parallel to the main table saw surface?
We asked Festool USA rep How much cup and tilt deviation are acceptable or within tolerances? but have not heard back.
MM
Alignment issues are exactly what I would expect–not because I have anything against Festool, but but because any time you introduce a separate part you add an opportunity for things not to align correctly. It’s common for even a bolt-on rigid table extension on a table saw or jointer to require some shimming and adjustment to get level. Make that feature moving and it’s even worse: the folding table and sliding function are useful features but are both inviting inaccuracy. It’s hard enough to do those perfectly on a full-size cast iron commercial cabinet saw. I imagine it’s an extremely difficult challenge on a portable saw that’s made largely out of plastic. The electronic blade angle control is another place where inaccuracy can very easily creep in and I wonder just how much I can trust that sensor and display.
Nate
I did a talk at a woodworker’s group about digital tools, with the central argument being the classic “accuracy and precision” problem. Most digital tools indicate higher accuracy than they are capable of achieving. My digital angle gauge displays down to a tenth of a degree. The sensor can achieve +-.2 degrees. There’s a few other tools where the difference in resolution and accuracy can be off by as much as one decimal place. It’s easy to let the resolution of a digital tool lull you into a false sense of security.
I checked the manual and website for the CSC, and there was no information on accuracy or precision of the tool. While I think it’s a pretty neat looking saw, I won’t be ponying up for this one. That’s half the price of a no frills Sawstop PCS…. 🙂
Mike McFalls
There is a lot posted in FOG about this and a number of YouTubers who did not receive demo’s or are affiliated have reported the same.
Saulac
The sliding and cross cut jig reminded me of a Ryobi table saw about 20 years go. I believe that saw have a following, but also have issue with alignment/shims(?). I have been think about getting one of those but have concert about the lack of safety features due to how old they are. But Festool seems to validate that design makes me thinking about that old saw again. Poor guy Festool table saw?
JD
I had the craftsman branded version of the Ryobi BT3000. It requires constant adjustment to stay accurate. The slider relied on plastic shims which degraded is rapidly and spare parts were getting hard to find 5 years ago.
Still, despite it’s issues, it sold me on the slider. Hopefully I’ll have the space and funds to afford a larger high quality sliding table saw
BigTimeTommy
What are the shims made out of? Is it a part that needs to self lubricate as it wears down like delrin? If not maybe replacements can be easily 3D printed.
smoothness
That sliding Ryobi is one of those tools with a “cult”/”skunkworks” following. I’ve always wanted to buy a used one, but there were always too many “this piece needs to be hacked” components.
From what I can remember, some of the dynamic elements weren’t durable enough/built with replaceable sacrificial surfaces. Sliders, stops, gears, etc.
These days, it’s probably doable to just 3D print or send off files to be machined out of an “exotic” material…but it’d be cost-negative/a huge time-sink for those who have the knowledge/skill set.
TL;DR: Blue Ryobi > Green Ryobi.
JD
They were some sort of plastic. 3d printing is probably a good idea. It would be nice to be able to find tune the tolerances on the printer.
The other problem is that good ones are pricy on the used market. Last one I saw was $450 on Craigslist. Of course, I live in a delusional market on Craigslist 😉
J. Newell
I had one of those and could never get everything into any sort of relationship with the other parts of the saw in a way that would produce accurate, repeatable cuts. Loved the concept, but in real life it didn’t work for me.
But thinking about that is instructive. As I posted further down the page, my saw has dimensional “issues” but I’m not seeing those show up in real life work, unlike the BT 3000 that I had.
I would guess that there are cuts on stock of some dimensions that could be problematic on my saw, but I haven’t encountered them (yet). That’s different from my experience with the BT 3000 and also different from my experience with several defective 10″ Kapex saws, where basically every cut was “off” to an extent that actually mattered for a large majority of cuts.
Doresoom
I’m calling BS on their customer service rep and their claim the table is designed to be cupped. Hopefully it’s just ignorance on their part, not intentionally deceiving the customer. I’d love to hear the explanation they provide as to why it’s cupped, because I can’t think of any at all, however far fetched.
Extrusions can be tricky to achieve accuracy over the entire length, especially for larger asymmetrical profiles like that sliding table. And if they’re not machining it afterwards, it’s even more of a challenge. Just speculation on my part, but Festool may need to find a vendor with a larger press that’s not operating at its limit if they’re having trouble keeping it in spec.
Robert
I too was curious why a table saw table would be intentionally cupped. You don’t have much surface area on this particular table saw, so it’s impact would be more pronounced, seemly to slightly tilt your stock at times. This issue deserves querying Festool.
BigTimeTommy
Definitely sounds like BS, guess they haven’t had time to come up with the official BS yet.
MM
Yeah, “designed to be cupped” sounds like a load of nonsense to me too. I’m very curious what the official response will be.
Adam
It’s not designed to be cupped, that’s definitely BS right from the start I thought a cordless portable table saw with a sliding table was ridiculous, and it’s way over priced and no mains power option I w never buy it.
Mike McFalls
the Festool customer service and engineering response explanation is that is a manufacturing bias due to the difficulty in manufacturing extrusions. What is interesting is that they wanted for the sliding table “to be above the fixed table to function properly” which when the issue is a cupped table brings the QA process into greater focus. In the situation describer, it would only impact smaller cross cuts sitting directing in the center of the table and while you shouldn’t have to, you can compensation with a .01 (or whatever degree the table is off) reverse angle on the blade.
Doresoom
Thanks for the clarification, Mike. From my own engineering perspective it sounds like Festool probably cut costs by not machining the top of thhe extrusion flat, which is really the only way to ensure an extrusion that size is flat under 0.010″. Their extrusion mill probably gave them a flatness tolerance they knew they could produce reliably. And since Festool figured users would notice a workpiece rocking on a convex surface (1 pt of contact), but not on a concave surface (2 pts of contact) they made it an assymetrical tolerance biased toward the concave side.
So not really “designed” to be concave, just made that way because they didn’t want to spend the money to machine it flat.
Barri
Guess you have never dealt with festool customer service.
Here’s my experience.
Domino XL not cutting level
Festool response (We have never had a complaint about that)
Kapex motor burning out
Festool response (We have never had a complaint about that)
Hose garage plastic cracking easily
Festool response (We have never had a complaint about that)
HKC55 saw not shutting down
Festool response (We have never had a complaint about that)
Splinter strips peeling off tracks
Festool response (We have never had a complaint about that)
MFT leg crimps not tight
Festool response (We have never had a complaint about that)
CT33AC making high pitched noise
Festool response (We have never had a complaint about that)
C18 trigger not connected right
Festool response (We have never had a complaint about that)
UG stand plastic brittle
Festool response (We have never had a complaint about that)
The list goes on with these guys. The customer service is some of the worst I have ever come across for a tool company. I actually started calling the UK customer service line as I was sick of getting talked to like I was the problem not the tools.
Jow
I’m on my 4th hose garage for my CT!
And I hate their splinter strips. No matter how much I clean the track with mineral spirits, degreaser/dewaxer, etc, I am inevitably have to purchase a new one because it had peeled off!!
I do love my C18 though.
BigTimeTommy
That’s a pretty common defect for extruded aluminum. Granted I have a low opinion of festool, but I’m assuming they knew they had this quality control issue and gambled on the customers noticing and caring. I’ll be pleasantly surprised if Festool users don’t happily lap up whatever lies Festool puts out.
eddie sky
It will be “improved” in the next model CSC SYS 51 because we believe our customers have deep pockets and willing to test our products out for us! Why waste corporate funds on Quality Control and testing when we can just use AI Marketing Bot!
*cupped? no, that is not right.
While I was foaming to get one, gasp $1999, was enough to realize, I don’t need this. Cordless, digital scale, and sliding table… too good to be true!
Thank you for this information, Stuart!
Tree Stooges Sawmill
You could buy the Metabo HPT?Hitachi, Milwaukee and Bosch cordless table saws for that price-each we have on our construction work and The Bosch and Metabo HPT are very accurate
BigTimeTommy
Lol nailed it. Festool users have a nearly unrivaled pathological brand loyalty. I’m sure a lot of people are already excited to buy the new improved version next year.
John
I don’t have any need for such a small table saw but I think it’s normal to calibrate/dial-in a saw after receipt and periodically thereafter. The only quality issue in that regard for me would be if it doesn’t hold its adjustments for a reasonable period of time, or if it’s particularly difficult or impossible to make those adjustments using features built in to the saw. You shouldn’t need to be using playing cards to do it for sure.
As to the intentionally cupped top…. someone is very confused.
Stuart
As users are resorting to using playing cards as shims, this doesn’t seem like a standard type of adjustment one should expect to have to make.
Tree Stooges mill
Just go with the Metabo HPT/Hitachi 36V hybrid jobsite table
Largest table out feed and width as well as 36V batteries can be used with the industries only AC adapter which allows for unlimited run time and no need to use batteries when power is available
We are a construction company and have put two of these through tough work for over 4+ yrs and their still kickin
eddie sky
http://www.metabo-hpt.com/us/main-navigation/item/c3610drjq4-36v-multivolt-brushless-10-table-saw-tool-body-only
Hmmm. and AC adaptor option!
josh Morris
I was a hard pass on this saw already because out can’t cut 2x material at 45
All this is just more reason not to get it
Mike McFalls
For those casually passing through or unaware of the ToolGuyd forum- a full review has been posted about this saw.
https://discuss.toolguyd.com/t/festool-csc-sys-50-tablesaw/3377
Laurence
There’s a forum? I’ve been coming here for years and I didn’t even know it existed.
Stuart
Yes, but probably not for much longer, at least as it exists now.
Brad
I wasn’t aware until a few weeks ago, and now I’m a an addicted lurker who has considered participating. If you do keep the forum in a changed form, do you have any ideas for what significant change(s) might be?
Alexk
Thanks, Mike. Ten years of reading and being on this site, and I never noticed that there was a forum like you linked to.
Alexk
Do most people here know about the forum?
Ben
FWIW I’ve been coming here regularly for a couple years and was not aware it existed until recently. Perhaps that’s a problem of underutilization or something I just missed somewhere, but Stuart mentioned shutting it down due to those issues. https://discuss.toolguyd.com/t/forum-shutdown-decision/3343
Joren
Sadly I’d never come across it. Thanks for bringing attention to it!
Koko The Talking Ape
For my money it’s the most light/least noise place in tooldom.
BigTimeTommy
I didn’t, but Stuart is probably glad that’s the case 😉
Duane Hurley
I think what most people don’t realize is that this is a sliding table. A miniature version of an industrial sliding table saw. What the blade does for the crosscut can be set for that side of the blade and the right side is for ripping. When you start to understand how to operate that kind of saw then it all comes clear. I completely enjoy using my saw for what I believe it was truly intended for. The fact that the blade can tilt to a negative 10° makes it that much better than the average job site saw.
Phranq
I had no idea there was a forum. Been coming to this site for years for no nonsense tool reviews.
AdamF
I picked up this saw the first week it was out. I do a lot of kitchen installs and was using a dewalt cordless saw in the trailer for site work. Most of the cordless in the trailer has already shifted to festool so it was an easy purchase since it was one less battery system to lug around. Have used it on roughly three installs so far and love it. Maybe I got lucky but mine seems very accurate. I have not boticed any table issue though to be fair i have not really checked that much, it cuts smooth as butter and was able to rip hardwood without much issue. Seems to have more power then the dewalt but in fairness one battery to two so not much of a surprise. I use an altendorf f45 in the shop and I feel for small parts I get a better finished cut on this little guy. Again haven’t attacked it with calipers, just been using it.
J. Newell
I own one of these and measured a lot of dimensions earlier this week – there were a lot of variances in various dimensions, running anywhere from 0.10″ – 0.18″. I admit that I was a bit annoyed (at Festool, as well as at myself for not checking earlier). However…
I had been using the saw before I measured the tables (there are really three: the sliding table, the fixed table, and the flip-up table extension), and I did some cutting tonight. All “normal” projects, nothing intended to test perfect alignment.
I have to say that of all the pieces I’ve cut in the last six weeks only one had any dimensional issues, which at the time I chalked up to either poor setup or poor control of the work when I cut it. I still think that’s probably the right diagnosis.
So although I think my saw could show up better with straightedges and feeler gauges than it does, in real life I am not seeing any issues at all.
For what it’s worth…never got anything free from Festool, not an “influencer,” don’t have a YouTube channel…just an ordinary guy who cuts wood.
Brad
Seems like the main justifications for a table saw with a Festool price premium would have to be accuracy and precision, so I’m confused about this saw’s niche, not just tge above-mentioned issues. I could see a meticulous carpenter making use of higher degrees of accuracy and precision, but aren’t cordless jobsite saws more of a construction tool?
Jimmie
For what it’s worth, the old Ryobi BT3100’s sliding miter table also sat slightly proud of the table. It was one of the more annoying aspects of the saw because it meant that blade squareness depended on the width of the piece being cut: if workpiece was narrow enough to fit between the sliding table and the blade, then you need the blade to be square to the main table. If it was wide enough to fit slightly on the sliding table, the proudness of the SMT caused the workpiece to be very slightly inclined so you want the blade to be square to *that*. And if the workpiece was wide enough to fully rest on the sliding table then, again, you’re back to needing the blade to be square to the sliding table (which one hopes is coplaner with the main table).
I still have my BT3100 but only because my garage isn’t big enough for a larger saw.
J. Newell
For what it’s worth, if you ran into that when using the Festool saw, in theory if you knew the two blade alignment positions you could save the vertical blade alignment adjustment as a preset and go back and forth with the press of a button. Not saying that’s ideal, but I think it is possible and would be an effective solution.
Mike McFalls
J Newell- exactly. Anything landing in the middle of the skidding table will need a -.1 saw angle to be a perfect 90