This isn’t one of those posts where I ask a question in the title and then answer it in the post. This is the kind of post when I am utterly stumped and need some help.
I am making some progress on my office workbench. I have 1-1/8″ thick Ikea butcherblock tops I can use, or I might order 1-1/2″ maple tops, I haven’t decided yet. Either way, those tops are both finished on the front edge. How do I create a clean seam?
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A miter joint is one way to go, but not really, since my corner joint will be formed between two sections of different widths. One will be about 22″ deep, the other around 16″-18″, I haven’t finalized it yet.
So, a butt joint will be likely. Since the side and front edges are pre-finished, they will have to be modified so as to prevent a dip that needs to be filled.
There’s not much advice on user forums, and a lot of what I found dealt with laminate, which is easier to fit together than wood.
The one advice I found was to use a Trend jig, shown above. The jig, which comes with a router bit and guide bushing, trims most of the joint flush, and then looks to modify the front at a 45 degree angle. The photos I’ve seen show a very tight-fitting joint.
It’s a good-looking jig, and I do have a couple of projects where this will be handy, but I have a few hesitations. First, it’s expensive – $130 after discount. Second, it’s designed to work with standard countertop depths, and will require some finagling to get it to work nicely with my smaller-sized panels.
Lastly, surely there’s another way to do this? I’m sure that this isn’t the only way to cleanly trim wood countertops for an invisible seam.
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Maybe I can build my own template. I can use a guide rail or straight edge for the straight section, and then possibly a 45 degree guide for front part of the joint. If so, how large should that miter joint part of the seam be?
While this is “only” a workbench, I’d like to have a flat and invisible seam if possible, and so I’m treating it as I would a countertop.
Buy Now(Trend Jig via Amazon)
The jig seems useful, but it’s about 3X the price I’d pay for limited project use. I’d use it for maybe 3 or 4 workbench builds, and that’s it.
One other suggestion I saw was to fit the two panels together but with a small gap between them, and use a router to trim both at the same time, creating matching profiles. But if the joint will have a straight section and s small angled section, that’s not necessary.
And, I realize that the shape of the joint also serves to hide laminate countertop substrates, but in other examples I’ve seen, it looks good with wood countertops too.
A straight trim is necessary, to remove the finished edges so the top surfaces meet flush, and the angle provides a transition to help align and lock things together. The concept seems perfect, but the process, at least without this jig, eludes me.
How would you fit things together?
Kevin
For kitchen counters of two different widths a modified miter joint is often used. You can use two pieces of cardboard to make a template. Starting from the back outside corner draw a line at 45 degrees. Draw a second line from the front inside corner at 45 degrees. For two sections of the same width the lines should be the same place. For sections of different widths the lines do not meet. In about the middle of the counter draw a line parallel to the narrower section to join the first two lines. This type of joint often factory made when ordering counters.
fred
The rounded over or bullnose prefinished front edge will result in some mating issues. With the joint you picture – there will be a small gap unless you mill a vertical curve in the short end of the notched piece to mate with the bullnose. It just might be easier to use square-edged countertop boards – then rout the bullnose once the countertop is made. When we did a job like this – we’d come in with doorskin (plywood or Masonite) strips/ pieces and hot glue a template together – then fabricate the countertop in the shop using the template
Stuart
If both have eased front edges, shouldn’t they match well if meeting at 45° at the inside and outside of the corners?
The image isn’t mine, it’s an example of how the Trend jig cuts countertops to fit.
ktash
Would what Fred describes be something like making a coping joint over quarter-round molding? only on the curved part. Just curious.
Stuart
Brilliant!
I sketched out a partial miter and straight section at the rear, but it looked horrible. Your method makes a lot of sense, thank you!
I probably won’t go this way for this build, as it will require me to cut from a 96″ countertop instead of 84″, leading to even more waste. (The narrow section will have to be 86″ long if mitered in this way.)
But I can do this elsewhere, where I’ll be using the IKEA blocks I have on-hand.
Koko The Talking Ape
Yeah, I was going to say, just cut a 45 degree miter from the inside corner in both pieces. In the wider piece, the miter won’t hit the outside corner, but who cares?
Or, if you want a cleaner look, just cut a miter at whatever odd angle will join the inner and outer corners.
Oops, it looks like Lawrence said the same thing!
Lawrence
Sounds like you haven’t ordered your counter tops yet. A few years ago I ordered counter tops from Menards. They help you with your design and when they arrive they’re all ready to be bolted and glued together. CNC cut – fit together like a dream
Stuart
I have 6 IKEA countertops (birch or beech, I forget), that I ordered at clearance, and have been cutting to size for smaller worksurfaces.
If I go with 1-1/2″ maple tops instead, I will also likely order standard sizes – 25″ x 84″ that I’ll fit myself. Even if I could order custom-cut tops for this build, I have those IKEA tops I’ll need to join in the future, for a few corner and maybe one U-shaped bench.
There’s no Menards around here, but I’ll keep it in mind.
Jason
For brute simplicity at the cost of wasted material, just cut a 45 degree miter from the inside corner. It won’t run through the outside corner, but so what? For a slightly more aesthetic approach (but one that wastes even more length), graph out the correct miter angle for your two different width pieces and cut a miter that runs from inside to outside corner.
If you want to make a gapless stopped miter joint between the two pieces, you could make a homemade version of that router jig with about five bucks of material and a pattern-routing bit.
To replicate the joint without the router or jig, crosscut the end of the narrower piece to remove the finished edge. Mark the width of the narrower piece on the end of the wider piece and make a stopped miter cut an inch or two into the wider piece from that mark, keeping the kerf on the waste side. Rip cut from the end of the wider piece to meet the end of the stopped miter cut. Line the two pieces up and scribe this cut line onto the narrower piece. Pare as needed to get a tight fit. You can screw this up and recut the end of the narrower piece a bunch of times before you use up as much material as a simple miter cut will take.
Stuart
That will actually work better, not having the smaller counter run to the outside corner. For that, I’d ideally need an 86″ countertop, but 84″ is standard.
Working the narrow piece, which in my case will be the “male” component, seems fairly easy, or at least easier. It’s working the female piece that will likely require the most focus. But I suppose that if I take too much off the inside corner, there will be a slight mismatch at the wall, which isn’t a big deal.
It took finding that Trend jig to visualize how this is actually done. Some recommendations I saw online involved wood filler, which seems like a horribly lazy way to do things.
I have a Festool guide rail and a router (test sample), which should make the straight cuts a cinch. Matching them up at the inside, I should be able to build a clampable jig for short miter section.
(Thank you everyone!)
Russ
I put walnut countertops in my kitchen and this is what I did.
Establish the angle, no math: Build a cardboard template and run a straight edge from the back corner to the inside corner.
Transfer the shape to the two countertops. Cut both of the angles with a circular saw and straight edge guide. If you need, run your router between the two parallel pcs of the joint as described in the original post. Relieve the bottom of the joint slightly with a plane to allow for swelling and a better looking visible joint. Use a dowel or biscuit jig to lock the height of the two pcs and route locations for the miter bolts. I made my own jig to do this.
If the ends opposite the miter are not finished you can leave it a little long for extra “opportunity”.
alex
I would use some kind of knock down connectors, something like this :
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=71046&cat=71685
Stuart
Thanks, that’s what I’m planning for!
I figure that, after cutting to fit, I’ll line them up, upside down. Mark the locations. Drill the holes, route along the lines.
My one concern is how to drill perfectly even holes for the connectors, but it seems that they don’t have to be at perfect depths. The important thing is that the sidewall is smooth and straight. If I’m really worried, Kreg’s hinge drilling jig is sized for 35mm bits, same as the larger Zipbolts.
Then I’ll use a dowel jig or Festool Domino (review sample) for alignment, but they won’t be glued.
ktash
I’ve been eyeing the Woodpecker cross-dowel jig. Up to 3/8″ fasteners. It looks very cool, though I don’t make that type of furniture. If I ever do, it’s on my list.
https://www.woodpeck.com/universal-cross-dowel-jig.html
Stuart
I bought their other cross-dowel jig, but hardly ever use it. I envisioned being able to use it for several different things, but that ended up not being the case.
The new jig looks interesting too, but its applications are likely strictly limited to cross-dowels.
The good thing is that it’s not a One Time Tool, so one could always change their mind if it’s needed in the future.
Whiskey and Wood
Cope the profiled portion on one piece and finish it out with a 90/butt joint for the majority, then use something like the domino insert or countertop hardware to bolt them together and pull them tight, as long as you take your time on the cope, it’ll look good, and it’s a large cope compared to crown, but not so large it’ll take a ton of time.
ktash
So, that answers the question I asked earlier. One thing you can do with the coping is to not cut the counter to final size until after the cope is perfect. Then cut the end opposite the cope to size. Assuming you have some extra slack in that piece.
Daniel Lawson
fast cap has something like that other tool but its call flipbolt the connectors are 1.09 a piece and the template piece is 11 bucks and it will pull it togeth
er
alex
BTW, Ikea recommends to not miter their countertops if I remember correctly (because of wood movement I suppose). I would cope and back bevel them like another user was suggesting. It’s not too hard to do if you take your time and you can always put some wood filler if your cope is not perfect. Plus, your workbench will be able to deal with some wood movement.
Jeff @ Tool Box Buzz
Jack Miter with the wide piece running long. Jacks are the only way to go on beaded face frames or window/door casing. Your situation is similar just with larger pieces of wood.
Stuart
Aha! Thanks, I couldn’t remember the term! Hopefully it’ll help me uncover more in my Google search for tips and tricks on how to do it with countertop-sized slabs.
MichaelHammer
Jeff wins for the first correct answer. The process is simple and cheaper than $130. Looking at the example shown above, miter only the profile of the countertop on the right (B). For the left, measure and mark from the end the width of B. With a speed square mark your plumb line and 45 degree miter. With a dovetail saw cut the miter through only the profile. If you like, clamp a scrap of wood with a 45 to the countertop to guide you. Now, from the end of the countertop to the tip of the 45 use your track saw to remove the profile. Finish the cut with a flush cut saw. Use a wood rasp to clean up the cut. Use the connectors that Alex mentioned. You now have a professional countertop.
Brett
There’s a lot of good ideas here, I’d probably just do the cut at 45’s and make something up for the extra 2″ as others have suggested.
I want to point out though that you’re worried about jigs and (I think) also own a 3d printer. Seems like you could solve your own problem there. I wouldn’t print one as big as the Trend you posted but something to align and gauge depth for the countertop connector bolts would be no problem.
Stuart
I don’t have a 3D printer.
A CNC machine would allow me to make a jig super-fast (and with cleaner walls than a 3D printed template), or even cut the joints for me. But I don’t have one of those either.
tim Rowledge
This should help explain the way to do a jack mitre –
https://www.finehomebuilding.com/2018/07/09/a-better-joint-for-beaded-casings
If you’re not a subscriber you can get a trial etc etc.
Stuart
He has a page on his own site showing similar http://www.garymkatz.com/TrimTechniques/jack_miter_jig.html , but it’ll be hard to translate that into worktop slab dimensions.
His example, at least on his page, requires a chamfering bit. I was hoping to simplify things and only use straight bits. Working in two dimensions seems easier than if I have to worry about the cut varying in the Z direction as well.
fred
I’m reminded that all that nice trim work in colonial era houses were cut by hand – no electricity available to power a router or track saw. Trimming off the bullnose for a jack miter with a stopped cut using a track saw – and finishing the cut for a square end with a hand saw should be easy enough. Cutting the 2 mating miters on the bullnose with a back saw should also be easy.
BTW – I’m reminded by your link about all I’ve learned about casing over the years from folks like Jim Chestnut – I’m also a fan of his Clam Clamps for casing work:
https://www.miterclamp.com/
HTG
The Trend jig also has a pattern for the connectors. Most importantly, the Trend jig is old, off patent and commoditised. There are some super-expensive versions out there which are, I’m sure, super accurate and super durable. But if, like me, you only want a joint or two, a really cheap one will do the job quite nicely. Have a poke around on eBay for example. Don’t get a second hand one, since I think people only get rid of them because they have accidentally routed one of the slots wider or something. But there are plenty of cheap ones to choose from. It’s the right tool for the job, and satisfying to use. And it cuts the slots for the joining bits too.
ToolOfTheTrade
If you haven’t bought it yet then forget about ikea and go get it from an actual countertop outfit and give them the dimensions and have it cut as one piece. It may cost a bit more, but at least you won’t take the risk of screwing up your offset miter cuts & it will look a hell of a lot better than 2 pieces. Being that the corner is 2 different depths where they meet to form the 90, it’s no going to look good no matter what cut or miter angle you attempt unless the edges are flat. Especially the front overhang. No round edges or bevels. If you opt for ikea, then you need to know if your office is even square before you even think about cutting anything. Have you put a framing square in the corner to see if you got 90° on the wall? If it’s not, which is likely the case, then you’re going to have to cut the miter angles to the offset. A simple 45 45 cut will not work if the angle in your corner is not 90. You will have a gap either at the miter or at the wall. A jig ain’t gonna help you unless you have a perfectly square corner. Make the correct templates first. Once you have it, you can cut your fermica. The color you choose will also determine how apparent the seam will be. Stay away from wood colors.
Stuart
I actually want 2 pieces so I can break things apart if/when necessary. The entire build will eventually have a built-in look, but with the ability to get into the corner and make changes if or when need be. Not that I plan to have to, but still.
The cabinets are bolted together, and are guaranteed to be perfect right angles.
It won’t be formica, it’ll be laminated maple butcher block – solid wood made from smaller sections glued together. Or the Ikea solid laminated wood tops I have a couple of 74″ boards of.
Good advice though, thank you!
Barrie Lindley
The trend jig is very popular in the uk for kitchen worktops.
Unika also do a great worktop jig. Both jigs have a connector bolt template built in.
This is definitely the best way to join worktops
fred
Does the Trend jig require a special sub-base to be fitted to your router – in order to accept their 30mm guide bushing? Or can you use a router base that accepts a Porter Cable or similar 30mm (1-3/16) guide bushing ?
Barrie Lindley
I use the makita rp180 with a 30mm guide bush (no sub base required) so as long as you can put a 30mm guide on your router, you should be good to go.
Alick
The trend style jig has been “standard” in the UK for 20 odd years. They are so ubiquitous that I can’t imagine any kitchen fitter not owning something like this plus a half inch router to suit. They make an excellent joint, virtually invisible as the bolts milled into the lower surface pull the joint together tightly.
I think that the trend sub base is only provided to make the guide bushes accessible to routers that lack a proper or metric range of accessories. It won’t be needed if a 30mm guide bush is available to fit the router directly.
Alick
Here’s how to put it together once it’s cut …
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i1EeKGdQ5xc
fred
@Alick
Thanks for your response.
When I sold-up and retired in 2012 – it seemed like laminate countertops had become passé for us – and our Bettterley laminate routers and other laminate countertop tools were gathering dust. Butcher block tops for islands still seemed to be popular with our clientele – but otherwise the business all seemed to have turned to stone (granite mostly – with some quartz, marble, soapstone and other exotics thrown in). Solid surface materials seemed to have come and gone in a flash – also replaced with stone.
The only thing, I did not see in the video clip you attached – was a step to scribe the countertop (or more likely its fabrication template) to the walls and corner. We’d typically create such a template before fabricating a countertop – and it was sometimes surprising how out-of-square corners were – or how much a wall wiggled on remodeling jobs (sometimes even on “new work”.) The cabinetry might be perfectly square – but the walls often were not.
Alick
Absolutely Fred 🙂
I’m not in the trade and our kitchen tops don’t need replacing so I’m not up to date with the latest fashions but friends have had stone or solid wood worktops fitted in recent years.
I picked the French video just to note that the method is not at all specific to the UK and I was a little envious of the guy’s nice square walls 🙂 ours had to be scribed along the back edges just as you describe.
All the best.
Stuart
While the technique is not specific to the UK, it’s more in tune with laminate.
I have no interest in caulking or gluing my butcherblock tops together. Silicone *can* be used, as per some manufacture notes I read, but glue is ill advised since wood benefits from being able to move slightly.
fred
Real butcher’s blocks (as in ones that you use a cleaver on) still have some tendency to crack and check a bit. But I suspect that they were invented by some guy who became frustrated with using a sawn-off hunk of a tree trunk (sometimes used for anvil stands) . The idea of laminating lots of small pieces of end-grain together was inspired as the swelling and movement of each individual piece tends to be less than what you get using glued-up long boards (as in a table top).
On table tops – one often uses “bread board ends” that can float to finish off the construction and accommodate board movement. Table tops are also fastened to the table frame using schemes that allow for movement. The same is true for door construction – where things like raised panels are not glued in to surrounding stiles and rails – but are allowed to float.
Stuart
In addition to less expansion due to smaller sizing, the grain directions are more varied, making a lamination stronger, and I believe that the expansion averages out a little.
I have angle brackets with elongated screw holes so as to allow for some movement.
I also ordered rubber balls for experimenting with 5-panel drawer fronts.
SteveW
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SteveW
Well that didn’t turn out like I intended!
Stuart
It looks better in my inbox. A good attempt, and appreciated. =)
steve
It’s also called a “mason’s miter”.
JMG
One reason for choosing a forty five degree cut, from front to back, when using solid wood as a surface material, is related to seasonal movement of the wood itself. If you were to use that template method to join the tops, the “male” section of the top could push itself back during the time of year when humidity was increased, and when it lowered at another point in the year, a small gap could appear at the short section of miter in the joint.
Cutting on a forty five maintains a uniform dimension in the seasonal movement of the materials, as long as they are of the same wood type. Even if the lumber in the tops was kiln dried, it can take years for the material to localize, and if you move to a different part of the world with the tops with different average humidity, the process would start all over again.
I still have the first piece of furniture I ever built for myself, before I understood anything about wood movement, and over the thirty five plus years I have hauled it across the country and back, all of it’s mistakes in fabrication have been enlightening, while watching it grow and shrink with the ambient humidity of the areas I lived in.
Taras
Why not just cut short 45 degree mitre through each bullnose and then finish the cuts to allow it to be butt jointed together?