Shown above is a screen capture from an earlier version of Agilent/Keysight BenchVue software. Now? I have no idea. Because something went wrong with the update and while waiting for it to download again I discovered that Keysight started charging for software that used to be free.
Here’s some backstory:
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A few years ago, I bought an Agilent 34461A benchtop digital multimeter. Back then, it came with a free Windows utility that allowed for easy data logging on a PC via USB.
And then Benchvue came out. It wasn’t perfect, but it was quite handy. Coming from my experience with Agilent’s digital multimeter utility, I was very optimistic about BenchVue, and how it would make it easier for me to visualize, record, and share data, such as voltage, current, and other related multimeter measurements.
I bought a second Agilent/Keysight multimeter, upgraded to an Agilent/Keysight programmable power supply, and splurged on an Agilent/Keysight oscilloscope.
Benchvue was imperfect. It had a habit of crashing and disconnecting my multimeters when I was taking crucial data, and discussions with Keysight’s tech team didn’t really help. I haven’t seen the connection failures in a while, because I’ve given up on using the software for certain types of measurements with certain test accessories.
There were other weird crashes that the BenchVue team tracked down to a certain way of launching the program in Windows.
Years later, I am mostly convinced the specific dropped-connections and missed data issues might have been with the multimeter hardware in some way. Maybe something between the multimeters and my computer? It’s never been sorted out, and mentioned I’ve been less reliant on the BenchVue software.
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That’s what happens when something fails and disappoints you.
But Benchvue was free, and it was useful.
I upgraded Benchvue at some point, and probably once or twice more since then. After one of the early updates, it installed a bunch of other software on my computer, including a very annoying license manager that scans any USB drive or device that’s connected to my computer. It’s always been intrusive.
There were new software licenses and a Pro version. But there were less featured of the different device “apps” that were free. Free “lite” versions. Okay!
I was annoyed. BenchVue offered the same digital multimeter functionality as the previous DMM utility, but at a price instead of being free. But that free option was still all I needed.
Now, I went to upgrade BenchVue again, because why not. I was upgrading some other software on my computer.
It removed the previous version, and installed… nothing. All I have now is a bunch of bloaty license managing stuff, and a BenchVue troubleshooting utility that tells me everything is okay. Huh?
So I go online to download the full version.
What do I learn? BenchVue 2017 has no more free function-limited apps, EVERYTHING requires pricy license fees.
So it went from free, to free with paid function upgrades, to paid software.
I spent a couple thousand dollars on Keysight equipment, and now they want money for software functions that used to be free.
I read that users who bought Pro licenses now have to work with Keysight on getting the newest version to work, since it’s a completely incompatible licensing structure.
A search online shows that the previous version is still available, but for how long? I can’t find any of the free utilities that predated BenchVue.
This is a great example of what NOT to do. Milwaukee has said their One-Key app will always be free. I believe the same is true with Dewalt and their Tool Connect app. Fluke’s Fluke Connect app is mainly free, at least all of the functionality most individual users might need.
Keysight’s BenchVue software was great when free, but it’s too buggy for me to ever pay for. The fact that I would now have to pay for software that was free makes me extremely hesitant to buy Keysight test and measurement equipment again.
I have a BK Precision and Rigol equipment, and they come with so-so software. My BK Precision electronic load software has some particularly amateurish aspects, but it was free and continues to be free.
In my experience, BenchVue has the stability and bugs of free software, but I couldn’t complain much, because it was free and it was useful. What I’m especially steamed about right now is that BenchVue played a hand in my purchasing decisions, decisions I’m starting to regret quite a bit.
Getting the new paid version of the 3 BenchVue “apps” I’ve used would cost me close to $1,000! Getting perpetual licenses for a bundle of their most popular apps, apps I might use someday, is over $2,000.
I’m going to try to reinstall an older version. Because I’m NOT going to pay $900 to regain functionality that used to be free, once-free functionality that had at the time convinced me to deepen my investment in Keysight test & measurement equipment.
I love – or rather I loved – my Keysight equipment, but this possibly irreparably hurt my impressions about the company. Maybe one day I’ll pay for BenchVue app licenses out of necessity, but only if they very drastically improve it.
Argh.
Update: The older version of BenchVue seems to be working just fine, but this hasn’t done much to assuage my strong disappointment and frustration at Keysight. A lot of sites have Keysight product listings that still mention BenchVue as a free software option.
Brett
I’ve never used test equipment software that wasn’t some combination of disappointing and frustrating.
That said, does the device enumerate as a serial port or something like a serial port when you plug it in via USB? The manual describes a simple ASCII/text interface (“SCPI” starting page 195) that seems to offer basic remote control and could be used to facilitate more reliable data logging. You may need to set the USB port for SCPI mode, which I see on page 146.
Stuart
I haven’t tried it.
There are other ways to control and read instrument data, such as Matlab and LabView, both of which have affordable personal use, “maker” or hobbyist licenses. Having used Matlab before, and having tried to work with LabView, I know that both have powerful capabilities but time-consuming learning curves.
My instruments have built-in logging capabilities, but it’s not as easy as interfacing with BenchVue. Although, after suffering instrument communication problems and data loss issues in the past, I tend to use the built-in memories whenever data integrity matters.
The BenchVue team has always been excellent, and I already received an email response to my update failure “issue report.” Before learning about the changes made to the newest version of BenchVue, I tried to update it, and it failed, only offering up a “troubleshooting” script that checks for common issues. I hit “report an issue,” and fired it away late last night.
I always considered that I would eventually upgrade to the PRO version of the apps I used. But now, being forced to because the “lite” versions were completely eliminated? That completely and utterly sucks. Or I can use the older version for as long as it’s available, but it probably won’t be supported, which would mean no bug fixes or compatibility updates.
I too have never used test equipment software that didn’t give me a headache, but BenchVue, with all its faults, was the best cross-instrument software I had ever used, not to mention easy to use.
I dropped several thousand dollars into more Keysight instruments, rather than shortlisted competing products, because of the promise of what BenchVue could do, and the idea that it would be forever free until or unless I needed advanced functionality.
Nathan
Lab view is easier than it initially appears, I will say that.
have you looked into other DAQ softwares and systems. I bet the hardware you have is supported by other programs – I wish I could remember what we used in the lab but it was on a win XP machine years ago that was never connected to the internet.
Also have you looked into LInux based systems.
Stuart
Not really. I started looking into such systems, bought a then-Agilent multimeter, and loved it so much I bought another. Then when I needed a beefier power supply and better oscilloscope, I went with Agilent/Keysight models partly because of the free BenchVue software.
I’ve dabbled with LabView trials before, and have a lite version to control a Keithley power supply I use for higher precision needs.
Mark
I recommend buying a license of Vee and just making your own utilities. Vee is much easier than LabVIEW or any text based programming when it comes to interfacing with test equipment. You’ll probably even enjoy it.
Nathan S
I’ll say that we have three 34461’s at work that I really like, plus some older 34401’s which are also pretty good (SCPI support on the 34461 is to make them backwards-compatible with software written for the popular 34401). I’ve scarcely used Benchlink with them (as well as with a 34980 DAQ) and didn’t like it so much. I suppose since we do also use LabView with most other test hardware, it’s natural to just incorporate these meters into the “code” and display or log the data however I want.
That said, if I were to buy one of these for my personal use, I think I would also want Benchlink to just simply work, let alone be available. For the price of the meter, this is a bad call. Also, with the voltage rating on these meters, I would want easy remote access and control. We talk about whether or not DeWalt or Milwaukee integration makes sense, but I would say this is a no-brainer to provide free tools to easily integrate with a PC, phone, etc., just to provide a bit of distance between you and potential electric death. Doubling the cost of the meter to have only part of this functionality will not lead to more sales or wide acceptance.
FYI, Keysight’s page for the 34401 no longer lists Benchlink, but says “BenchView Enabled.”
Wes
Have you tried or looked into Keysight TAP? It’s a new GUID based programming interface Keysight has put together that looks pretty promising. Unfortunately it is also paid software but there are free trials! Since it has been built from the ground-up away from BenchVue you might have better luck with the stability of the product.
Stuart
Not yet, but I’ll add it to my research list. Thanks!
Farid
It has become unaffordable for a small company to own engineering and scientific software. You spend $15,000 for a CAD package, only to find out that a feature you need has a bug. There is a fix available, but in order to get it, you have to buy a maintenance subscription annually at a cost of $1500 -2500 per seat. Multiply that by 3-4 other software and 3-4 seats each, then it becomes huge.
If it’s a piece of software that you use heavily everyday, then perhaps it is justifiable, but if it is one that only use occasionally but still need, then it becomes hard to justify. What is most unconscionable to me is having to pay twice for features or functions that were supposed to work right in the first place.
The last time I used any kind of data acquisition software that worked without hiccups on HP meters was house written code in DOS. We wasted a lot of money and time on packaged software and hardware; all ended up collect dust. We have had some decent luck with some of the Yokogawa stuff (they actually manufacture some of the Agilent hand held meters btw).
Alick
Hi Stuart, I can understand your irritation over this.
I’ve recently had a very good response from Keysight UK over a warranty issue with their U1273 OLED DMM so I’m feeling well disposed towards them right now but I hate it when companies do a poor job with software.
I find the 1273 handheld DMM a decent unit and it plays well with their (free) iphone app for remote / reading logging over the 100m bluetooth link.
The availability of user friendly wireless remote software certainly affects my buying decisons for test tools these days. In the portable field, Fluke have long been the leaders but their PC software is disappointingly primitive and expensive with it. I’m sure the decision to build their software on top of MS Access and incur licensing costs didn’t help.
Good test and measurement equipment will have a useful life far longer than most PC’s and their latest operating system. Software lifespan / maintainability is a real issue where MS and Apple are both doing everything in their power to force users to continually update.
One way forward: PC’s are cheap enough these days. Rasperry Pi’s are cheaper than a text book if there’s linux based software available. Dedicate a machine to the job, get the software working then take it off the internet. If you don’t update it, then it won’t ever get broken by some half tested “improvement”.
firefly
I totally understand your frustration. I see both side of the story based on my experience working as a software engineering for many years.
Fixing bugs are usually not difficult once they can be reproduced. The first problem are to identify them. That mean we need a front line of technical support personnel that can work with customers to get determine is this really a bug? Even engineering software services all level of users. So just servicing those clients take a lot of man hours. Once a bug has been identified. It’s time to sort through then priority and that can be a battle in it own. Fixing a bug in a complex software can introduce new bugs. So that mean more hours spend in testing. And that’s just barely scratching the surface. For example the Integrated development environment (IDE) that us developers use also need to be kept up to date along with the company OS update. However that isn’t always feasible. It’s not always possible to use a new IDE to target an older framework. So that mean as time progress multiple IDE/OS version need to be maintained just so we can maintain the software. That’s up keeping time out of the IT side of the house. So overtime it get to a point where it’s no longer feasible to maintain a piece of software.
Currently there is two basic software models: one time cost and subscription models. Neither is ideal. As we can see the cost of maintain a piece of software grow overtime, so the one time cost model shall expected to have a limited supported shelf life. The one time licensing model is problematic for both the consumers and the producers because the risk of software piracy. Whether they are committed intentionally or not. For the advance consumer that doesn’t waste the software producer time on unnecessary support call still get charged the same. That doesn’t exact seem fair to me. So some company will release the software at the cheaper price to make it more appealing. However they’ll charge a subscription model to support it. This might explain Farid question on why do I have to pay twice for a feature that suppose to work correctly in the first place. That’s because he is paying for the support part of the software that might not have been accounted for in the first place. So regardless of whether the support call is legitimate or not it’s a support call and is treated as such. Might not be exactly fair in some case but understandable. The subscribing model is a much better model in my opinion since the consumer are paying on the usage so they are paying a much smaller amount upfront and are only required to keep paying as long as they still need to use the software. Problem with that is there isn’t a good solution exist to maintain that subscription model, at least one that isn’t intrusive. Because for a subscription model to work we need to identify where that piece of software is installed. Who license it’s being tied to and such. That also mean that the software need to “phone home”. From a consumer perspective I am not a fan of any software that want to phone home. Because while they are phoning home they might also share a little secret here and there…
I don’t understand why a company would want to discontinue a piece of software all together however it could be that they still get to field support call for a piece of software that’s no longer supported. So sometimes it’s a good idea just to drop it off all together.
Nate
I didn’t realize there were any demand for these sorts of programs, but I write them all the time. Does anyone know of an open source program like this? If not, it wouldn’t be too much to put together one (at least as a Windows program, it may take effort for other OSs). Most automated software packages for test equipment are terrible and even ones coming down the pipeline are years behind where they should be. There are hard problems in writing software of this kind for measurement analysis or automatically creating measurement systems, but from what I’ve seen, what benchvue tries to do is pretty elementary.
chris M
The new LabVIEW NXG is precisely made for you. Easy to use for reliable instrument control and data logging applications. It is a paid tool but for sure overcomes the shortages you have been experiencing.
Sid ( Keysight Technologies )
Hi Stuart,
I’m the product manager for BenchVue at Keysight technologies. I’d like to try to speak to your concerns around BenchVue and your recent experience with it. I assure you, any and all feedback from our customers is treated with a high degree of scrutiny to ensure we are actively listening to all your voices.
Our goal for BenchVue has always been to simplify the world of test and measurement to allow engineers to focus on what really matters – innovation. It’s why BenchVue was created and why the team gets up in the morning. While we have quite a journey ahead of us, we’re committed to our mission.
Over the last few years, we’ve been fortunate to have many customers such as yourself choose BenchVue for their test needs. We’ve grown from supporting a few instruments with some basic functionality to now over 500 products in our portfolio focusing on easy instrument engagement and accessible automation. The thoughtful feedback we’ve received from across the world has been channeled into making a better product.
With the expansion of our active user base and the growth of the BenchVue program, it has become necessary to increase the level of investment to achieve our original mission resulting in this pricing change. Keysight has tried to cater to a wide range of needs with flexible pricing options ranging from $87 to $330 per app. We sincerely believe what we have planned for BenchVue will continue to add significant value to our customers.
The strong requests for free basic software functionality with instrument purchases are being heard and I assure you we are actively investigating this. In the mean time I hope we can convince you to evaluate BenchVue again and to work with us to address the issues you are having. I also encourage any of your readers to send us candid feedback at [email protected] which comes to me personally.
Thanks
Sid
BenchVue Team, Keysight Technologies
Wolfgang
Hi Sid,
I miss some logic behind Keysights latest move that you have to pay even for the most trivial functionalities like screenshots or simple logs.
If I need to pay anyway, I could as well go for LabView or another industry standard product that supports all kinds of manufacturers, not just Keysight products.
To my knowledge BenchVue does not allow the integration of non-Keysight equipment, am I right ?
regards
Wolfgang
Sid ( Keysight Technologies )
Hi Wolfgang, my apologies. For some reason I missed your response on 9/7 and only saw it today. I have responses to this post going directly to my email and it looks like I missed this one.
Regarding your question about non-Keysight equipment – We allow connection to non-Keysight equipment via Test Flow which is our drag-n-drop measurement sequencer. One has to use a SCPI block or a Command Expert Block within Test Flow to accomplish this. You wouldn’t get the app UI experience like you do with Keysight equipment however.
Regarding the free vs for-pay functionality – we are taking this feedback very seriously and looking at how to support our customers that just want to perform basic functions like screen captures and data captures.
Thanks for your feedback and questions,
Sid
Keysight Technologies
Wolfgang Griebel
Hi Sid,
nice that you finally found my mail and replied. Better late than never !
I had some mail exchange with your support manager (Brian), I dont know if you are aware of this. What would be nice is a timeframe for your pricing decisions, because I am in the process of acquiring a block of hardware (2xEXG, some other hardware and some options) and BenchVue as it is now is rather a counterargument on my side. Again, none of your competitors (RIGOL,R&S, Anritsu, …) does it your way.
Best regards
Wolfgang
Sid ( Keysight Technologies )
Hi Wolfgang,
Glad to hear you talked to Brian. If you haven’t already gotten your question answered, could you email us at [email protected] regarding your pricing question ? I wasn’t quite clear what information you needed regarding timing of pricing decisions – will be happy to provide you with whatever I’m able to.
Sid
Wilken
Hi Stuarts,
thanks for your comment on BenchVue. Do you have any advice for me where I can find the old/free version. I wanted to test the trial version but just ran into licencing issues. The installation is just a huge mess and I surrendered after several hours.
Cheers
Stuart
http://www.keysight.com/main/software.jspx?cc=US&lc=eng&id=2417463&pageMode=PV
I did a Google search for “BenchVue” and “Previous Versions” as I wasn’t able to find it on their site so quickly just now.
Stuart
Don’t forget that you also have to download apps, or modules, for the different functionality you need. I do this through BenchVue, but you can also find direct links, thanks to BenchVue’s team, at:
Power Analyzer Installer
http://www.keysight.com/find/BenchVuePA_installer
NA App installer
http://www.keysight.com/find/BenchVueNA_installer
DAQ app installer
http://www.keysight.com/find/BenchVueDAQ_installer
DMM app installer
http://www.keysight.com/find/BenchVueDMM_installer
Function/wavegen app installer
http://www.keysight.com/find/BenchVueFG_installer
Scope app installer
http://www.keysight.com/find/BenchVueScope_installer
Spec An app installer
http://www.keysight.com/find/BenchVueSA_installer
Power meter app installer
http://www.keysight.com/find/BenchVuePM_installer
Power supply app installer
http://www.keysight.com/find/BenchVuePS_installer
Eload Installer
http://www.keysight.com/find/BenchVueEload_Installer
Signal Generator Installer
http://www.keysight.com/find/BenchVueSG_Installer
FieldFox Installer
http://www.keysight.com/find/BenchVueFF_Installer
Universal Counter Installer
http://www.keysight.com/find/BenchVueUC_Installer
Ed
Does anyone know the version number of the final “free” version?
I’m running 3.0 and have the basic unlicensed functionality. Is 3.7 the final “free” version?
Stuart
Yes, it’s 3.7.
2017 is where things change to a pay-only model.
vokars
I bought the DMM App license today. As you write: It is handy for the visualization of small measurement tasks. I like it. But I agree: The licensing is overkill for what the software can do. Only devices from one vendor and limited measurement logic.
For larger or critical measurement tasks (devices from different vendors, complex measurement logic) I use python + pyvisa + matplotlib funcanimation (realtime data visualization):
1. You also get other OS like Linux, …
2. You can connect to nearly everything: Not only instruments from other vendors but also via socket without VISA, arduino-virtual-COM-port-connections, …
3. You can implement complex control and measurement logic
The python implementation of simple measurement logic is about 5 lines code with pyvisa. A digitizer with matplotlib visualization10 lines more and the funcanimation (using a simple change of the decay example in the matplotlib-doc) for a realtime logger is about 20 lines of code. Once you have it, you can use it also as template for fast small tasks.
With jupyter notebook you get inline matplotlib realtime data visualization (using the “%matplotlib notebook” magic).
Walter Cambeis
I am an adult student looking to transition into electronics. I had purchased a DSO
3024T a couple years ago and found benchvue extremely helpful as a learning tool. I then purchased a 33500B and a 34465A. I had to update the old version of Benchvue (that was working perfectly fine) after doing an update on my oscilloscope. Now to use benchvue I will have to pay $600 per year or $1200 for individual licenses. Starting to regret my decisions.
Sid ( Keysight Technologies )
Hi Walter,
I’m sorry to hear about your dissatisfaction after upgrading BenchVue to the new version. In case you weren’t aware, the free version ( 3.7 ) is still available for download on our website. This should get you back to your state prior to downloading.
Regarding licenses – yes you’ll need a license for your scope, DMM and function generator. There are a variety of options to choose from as shown below. For a yearly license you could get all three for $261/yr. If you’d rather have a perpetual license, the cheapest option is a node-locked license which would cost $690 for all three.
12 month node-locked license US$ 87
12 months transportable license US$ 114
12 months floating license US$ 122
Perpetual node-locked license US$ 230
Perpetual transportable license US$ 299
Perpetual floating license US$ 322
Do contact us at [email protected] should you need help with understanding the differences between licenses. More information can also be found at http://www.keysight.com/find/benchvue_apps
Thanks,
Sid
Kaz
I could not agree more. I got a few benchview licenses and I have uninstalled them all. I tried the demo of the New Paid for version (my existing licenses came with an upgrade offer – but I declined)
The problem with BenchVue is it is a patchwork of different software glued together with chewing gum. One of the reasons for the prices they charge is probably license fees to 3rd parties.
But the tools set and mind set of Keysight is all wrong. I think their firmware software developers would rotate in their caves if they saw the source for BenchVue.
BenchVue needs to be lightweight – portable – with little “background” processes and not 3 license manager executables running constantly using a lot of memory.
I could understand the absolutely wasteful programming if it was true multi platform built on top of some portability framework. But no – it is all .net – but .net does not need to be that slow or cumbersome – we are only dealing with SERIAL style data coming fast. Nothing fancy.
And about Sid’s claims of support for 500 instruments … hmmm that depends on how you count. In reality it is closer to 40-50 instruments with their different sub models – but coding should be the same for the sub-models.
And then product politics are involved so my ARB generator in my scope so BV can’t control it – like it could an external Keysight ARB. Just plain stupid protectionism from produt managers.
A tool like BV should really be used to EXPAND on the usability of instruments – not just provide a limited access to functions.
Also many equivalent models are missing – despite having 99% same SCPI command sets. It would be a trivial job to support them but as they are out of production no effort is put in – and we are not allowed to do so ourselves.
BenchVue should be redone from the ground up – without most of the 3rd party licensed frameworks – but with configuration files in XML for all instruments. XML format should be open (somewhat open) – so I could modify the XML for a Signal Generator not supported directly – and post my XML device type online for others to benefit from.
I have seen a lot of code & software – and had it been an exam project – BenchVue would have been given a C- or a D.
I do like my Keysight instruments – they are truly great. But BenchVue one of the only Keysight products I do not like at all.
So due to the lack of support for my Scope function gen – and my older signal gen – I ended up hacking together my own scripts to complete the job. My script now deals with about 7 instruments of which 5 are Keysight. But it works, is stable and does not need updating every time I start the computer. It could run on Rasberry Pi if I needed it to.
But the whole promise of BV was to ease the work – but BV did the opposite. “No you can’t to this – no you can’t do that unless you use CommandExpert – no this instrument is not supported, no you can program ARB in the function gen on the scope) – so a lot of “no”’s in the BenchVue.
I’m an EE with 25+ years of SW Project Managment & Developement in ASM/C/Csharp/Pascal/Delphi/Python/.net/Erlang – and a few more – in my baggage.
Wolfgang
I am thinking in the same direction. BenchVue is just a big piece of bloatware targeted to extract extra money from an installed instrument base. Its certainly not rocket science; rather a wrapper around a sequence of SCPI commands and some presentation arount it. On top of that, it is buggy. Maybe some people (including myself) should team up and make a compact, free utility for the most common instrument classes. The utility should be able to set just basic parameters, to grab a screenshot, and maybe log some data.
Sid ( Keysight Technologies )
Hi Kaz and Wolfgang
I’m sorry about your experience. Our goal is certainly to enable you to derive more value from your instruments when used with BenchVue. I can appreciate where your comments are coming from and the points you make. Given the complexity of the topic, I would be happy to connect 1:1 with you should you want to dig into it a little deeper ( [email protected] or 970 679-5506 ). As you well know from your 25+ years of experience there is a lot that goes into productizing a company-wide SW platform. There are some explicit trade-offs we’ve had to make that add complexity to the design for the sake of incremental value to our customers. We hear the feedback and are constantly working on making the product more efficient.
I do want to assure you that any lack of functionality you’ve experienced ( such as no support for your scope ARB ) is not due to organizational or product politics at Keysight. We work closely with our HW teams to ensure a cohesive offering. We just haven’t yet gotten to scopes arb support in this case : )
I truly do hope you’ll give one of our future releases another try. We have a great team that is focused on continuously enhancing BenchVue.
Wolfgang
Hi Sid, Hi Brian, Hi Kaz,
I did have a lengthy email discussion with benchview feedback (ask Brian). The point is that nothing changed. All arguments have been thoroughly discussed, I think. The problem is not that you dont listen, the problem is that you dont *move*.
My last state of affairs still is
– for the 100K worth of Keysight equipment I bought this year it would cost me more than 2K to have it supported by the new version of BenchView
– the only thing I need are screenshots, and those used to be free. I am simple not prepared to pay extra for something so trivial, and I do not need anything else (and a lot of other people dont either).
– there is no date when a free basic version will be re introduced, and there is no statement that this will done at all.
– its still buggy (you know of my E5071C screenshot problem), but reaction times for fixing are extremely slow. OK for freeware, but not for something you have to pay.
In my opinion, all this weasel wording about what not BenchVue can do for you does not change anything. The only thing thats for sure is that you try to extract extra money from an existing instrument base by charging for things that used to be free. I dare say that a lot of users never used BenchVue advanced functionalities.
A last word: I prefer to keep discussing in this forum instead of by private communication nobody else can see.
Best regards
Wolfgang
Kaz
Wolfgang – I do totally agree. I have mails from Dec ’16 (and more) that has never even been answered. I also have later mails without reply.
I think maybe because I’m harsh – Keysight do not feel obligated to answer. But I do have their best interest at heart.
I would have like the Source Measure device – and since I’m not rich – I looked at starting with the USB Source Measure option and then maybe later upgrade. But then I find out BV Source Measure will be split so the USB version gets it’s OWN software – so if I bought that I would have to buy yet another license for full Source Measure.
So again – Product Politics – great that they support the USB products – shame politics gets in the way and all the USB products are treated like outcasts and separate products. The USB products are btw. the only real new products supported within the last 12 months?
So Sid – please tell me when I can copy Scope captures to ARB on my MSOX3000T via BenchVue? (As I would be able to with an External Generator) – or just – when will Arb in my MSOX3000T be treated like a normal Arb?
Sid ( Keysight Technologies )
Hi Wolfgang,
Thanks for the response. Given your lengthy interaction with Brian I suspect you’ve discussed alternate means for getting screen shots, so this is more for other readers who may not be aware. If all one needs is a screen shot there are two other potential means of doing so
1. Using the instrument’s built in web server to remotely grab screen shots ( you do need to be connected via LAN for this. Just enter the instrument IP address into your browser )
2. Use our SCPI Block in Test Flow to grab an image. Test Flow is included with the platform and does not require a separate license anymore. You would need to find the SCPI command for screen captures from the programmers manual but that’s about it. Test Flow will capture, format and allow you to export ( along with all the other sequencing type functionality that it supports ).
Regards,
Sid
Wolfgang
Hi Sid,
I will try your proposal with the TestFlow SCPI command block. It is probably not terribly elegant but lets see. All my instruments are connected via USB, so the webserver solution is nothing for me (and many others).
Can I try this also in version 3.7 first ?
Best regards
Wolfgang
Sid ( Keysight Technologies )
Hi Wolfgang,
Great – you know how to contact us should you need help. I will ask our support team to reach out to you with any tips.
Unfortunately you wouldn’t be able to do this in 3.7 ( unless you enable a Test Flow trial ). Test Flow required a license in 3.7 but now it is included with the platform ( no trial or license needed ).
Sid
Wolfgang
Hi Sid,
can I run the new BenchVue inside a virtual machine so I do not need to reinstall everything if something goes wrong (this takes *hours*) ?
Best regards
Wolfgang
Sid ( Keysight Technologies )
Hi Wolfgang,
We don’t officially support running inside a VM. Folks have had mixed success when attempting to do so
Sid
Kaz
Hi Sid,
not running inside a VM is actually one of the clear indicators that the programming is not super 🙂
All software should be able to run in a VM if standards are followed. But if you use undocumented functions and features – then things break running in VMs. 🙂 Always test on the 3 major VM platforms and find bugs.
Usually you will find a lot of bugs if you use “platform graphics tools” meant for multi-os releases in my experience. Tools like QT or Unity etc can have issues and requires very careful reading of documentation to make certain that things like RDP & VNC works. If a program does not work with RDP in a VM – that is ALWAYS the case. 🙂
If standards are followed to the letter – 99.9% of all software can run encapsulated in a VM.
Wolfgang
Hi Sid,
I just found a new bug in BenchVue. Its as simple as that:
My new N5172B gets a syntactically incorrect SCPI query string right t the start and BenchVue subsequently fails to talk to the machine. N5171B: same story.
Considering the problems to run it in a VM and the long list of bugs I will have to wait until I get a new PC to try the new version out. That might take a while.
Sid ( Keysight Technologies )
Hi Wolfgang
Not saying you cannot run in a VM, just saying we don’t support it and have not tested it thoroughly. I know our internal teams have run BV on a VM 🙂
Regarding your bug : Will forward to our support manager to get back to you on this. This seems like a basic start up issue and I suspect there might be another variable involved.
Sid
Sid ( Keysight Technologies )
Hi Kaz,
You’re not being harsh – our goal is to respond to every email we receive. If there are ones we missed, I suspect they fell through the cracks for some reason. Our apologies for that.
Regarding your USB SMU question – We do have a free version of the USB SMU application in BenchVue along with a PRO version so there would be no need to purchase two licenses.
Regarding the MSO Arb question – I’m sorry I can’t give you an exact date on when we will add support but assure you it’s been added to our list of scope improvements.
Sid
Kaz
SMU – well I do need the PRO license. I do understand you want to offer a lower price SMU option for the USB part. That is fine – and covers schools / academia.
But you should have the USB devices supported in the BIG/NORMAL SMU license – so the USB SMU can run of a full SMU Pro license.
That means I can buy a USB SMU with Keysight Big Power Supply & SMU Pro BV License. And when I then get a full desktop SMU – I do not need to pay another $XXX for a Big BV Power/SMU License. But right now USB’ devices is NOT supported with the normal power/scope/generator licenses.
But I’ll test the latest BV now and see how that goes. But I do hate License Manager as well – that is also just badly implemented and just takes so many resources. Please stop relying on so many 3rd party libraries filling my computer with crap – especially for something that runs all the time. And who had the idea that it should scan USB devices every time you plug in or plug out?
Any background process like license manager should be SMALL and efficient and only start big things UPON INTERACTION from End User! Dynamic load big Dll’s if you need them – but then UNLOAD them and clear the space and do not use CPU unless you really really have to.
🙂
/Kaz
Sid ( Keysight Technologies )
Hi Kaz,
We’ve gotten various responses for the USB scanning you describe. Some customers that are actively using Keysight licensing love it ( since its a completely automated process ) and others like yourself not so much. We have fed this back to our licensing team to investigate. In the interim there is a mechanism to disable this feature that I’ve posted here (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/t57461/msg1307157/#msg1307157). This will take care of it for you.
Sid
Kaz
Hi Sid,
yes it takes care of USB scanning but not the absolute waste of resources …. 🙂 when the program is not active.
If software had a BMI measurement the License Manager would probably creep in at around 30+… 🙂
Ronald G Vinsant
The DVM software is an issue for sure. It is probably better to use Mathcad then the BenchVue stuff.
What I really find odd is that simple things like using a browser to access the 34461 is buggy.
I get this:
This web page requires Java.
For more information, see the FAQs on the instrument product page at http://www.keysight.com/find/TrueVolt.
If you go to the webpage in the error message there is not much there. Certainly nothing that helps with the problem nor any links that help with the problem.
I have the latest version of Java too (Dec 2017)
I have had to install BenchVue twice; it failed the first time so I had to remove the first install then reinstall. Very frustrating.
Not worth paying for in my view.
Ronald G Vinsant
I have also found that loaded BenchVue will wipe out some of my Desktop shortcuts..
Jim (Annoyed Test Engineer)
I have to say I had a terrible experience with the BenchVue software as well. Did a site install where I used a piece of rented test equipment that was used for a month on site and another couple in house. The piece of equipment seems really nice, until you try to automate any of the data captures.
There was no way to externally trigger the capture then save the data from the benchvue application, the reps had no idea how to perform a simple save of data at a set time increment. We are talking once every minute here, nothing even close to interesting. I ended up having to build in a autohotkey button press to kick off the capture on the benchvue software which worked for anywhere between half an hour, to 6 hours requiring constant babysitting. When talking to the techs pointing us to this software, they had no alternative routes to getting the data from a simple time activated capture. How do you screw up a piece of capture software so badly you can’t even capture data at a known increment. Apparently the VNA software was not fully vetted and released very recently. These type of activities were available for other pieces of equipment in Benchvue.
Oh, and the software itself, startup messages that would never go away even when selected for the 50th time, Bloated memory, random crashes, not saving a full VNA profile when reloading after a crash that would require two reloads for it to then bring it back in to the correct settings, minimized screens not showing all the options that a maximized screen would show.
Let me just say this was one of my worst experiences with a piece of test software that I was forced into using. The equipment seemed nice, just the pricey bloatware bug strewn hunk of software they try to force down your rental equipment throat. URGH.
Oh, and after reading your article realizing this software used to be free really puts the cherry on top.
Regards
Wolfgang
Hi all,
You know what: I got a free upgrade from the old BenchVue to a new one including all instruments I have (N9000A,E5071C,N5171B,N5172B,U2004A,34465A,34401A). The story like this:
– I complained about BenchVue being buggy and unfair because now you had to pay for everything, even trivial things that had been free in the past.
– I agreed with my dealer that I would only buy equipment that is supported by the free version of BenchVue. They said OK.
– I bought some instruments that were not even recognized by the old BenchVue, even if the manuals said it was a supported instrument.
– Then they wanted to sell me a high performance scope. I said yes, but only if they fix the Benchvue problem for me free of charge.
– For accounting reasons (they said) they gave me an additional discount for the same amount as a full new all-instrument Benchvue license, plus the license itself. So, no extra cost.
Result:
Two of the bugs are gone, the third one could be outsmarted somehow. Stability has somewhat improved, but the screen flickering is still there. Quite some features of the instruments are only partially supported. Crashes have become less frequent, but still occur (sometimes when you manually do something on your instrument that is not supported by BenchVue and then try to go on with BenchVue).
Sorry to say, still not a great product. Better than the old one, but still buggy, incomplete and not worth the money. In the meantime I wrote a C program that does all the screenshooting the classic way. It is simple, but it always works.
Andrew
This blog was incredibly useful. Thank you, all!
Was looking to update Benchvue for my Agilent DSO (which I bought new many yrs ago):
– got confused with the licensing options at Keysight
– found this blog
– found the link to the older free downloads
– began install, but aborted after reading that the scope has a built-in web server; man, I forgot all about that! I really only need screenshots 🙂
Mark P Huth
I just have to weigh in here. Bench View seems to be in the same category of most other vendor supplied test equipment software. Not really any better than Rigol or other second tier vendors. I had hoped for better.
Today I down loaded BenchView with the DAQ app for my brand new DAQ970A hoping to do some test development. Bzzzt, thank you for playing. In a little over 3 hours I have crashed the app in a hard lockup twice, found that the histogram bin labels are useless, as it is all rounded to 3 decimal places – useless when testing a voltage reference that varies by a few microvolts over time. The per cent axis can be set to 6 decimal places, but the the bins.
The crash is induced trying to set the offset for a channel in the strip chart. Pressing the down button repeatedly locks up the application. The drop down box for the offset is also rounded to 10.000 even though it seems to accept higher precision numbers for the offset.
Basically, worth exactly what I paid for it. No wonder they are now giving the license away with the instrument purchase. It’s completely useless. The web browser app seems to work much better except that it likes the programmability needed for test sequences.
To add insult to injury, the program cannot send bug reports with configuring an email server. Who uses outlook, anyway. I have a MATlab license, so I gues I’ll just have to use that and right lots of code for my testing. I really didn’t want to have to do that, but while the instrument is great, the software just plain s..ks. It is in the same league a Rigol, which means the software basically doesn’t serve a useful function. At least it hasn’t fallen off the net yet, so I guess I should be grateful, eh?
At least the help files cannot be read on a high resolution screen, as they can even get the fonts to scale properly. Needless to say, I am very disappointed in what was once a very good company. I really didn’t expect crap like this from them.
Wolfgang
I tried to hack a screenshot tool for a lot of instruments myself.
Its written in Python and free, source included. No BenchVue needed anymore if a screenshot is all you need.
https://electronicprojectsforfun.wordpress.com/a-generic-screen-capture-tool-for-scpi-instruments/
Dave
I just went through this horrible experience myself. Bought a new scope, installed the “free” software and bam – it crapped all over my hard drive installing a dozen or so components, services, what a mess. Hopefully I’ve got it cleaned up, but a restore point would have been in order. It seems the license manager is the only thing that is free and what a PITA it was to obtain my “free entitlement” (a.k.a. license) for software I can’t use.
DANIEL WILLIAMS
I just bought a Rigol MSO5000 and have it talking to an old version of VEE. Still my favorite test software. Too bad Keysight won’t support it anymore and won’t let VEE go open source. It really is still the easiest to use.
Wolfgang
I cant help to dislike even VEE. Compared to what Python can do all this “programless” environments like VEE or LABVIEW are crippleware. And they are not even free.
Bo in Finland
Hi guys,
Interesting read indeed.
In the old times before digital memories, we used a Polaroid camera with a black extension to block stray light for taking screen shots. Worked just fine and then we had to fix the photo and could write comments on the backside. The problem was to find enough with film, hidden in the secretary’s locker when working late to get the thing working.
Well, today I use my small Canon pocket camera for quick ones and use NI VISA with Excel and write some code in VB. Not as elegant, but works just fine with any manufacturers instrument at all different interface standards that VISA supports, including obsolete out of support HP instruments having only GPIB. With the Excel spread sheet tool you can run any measurement and get the data out and format it to your liking. NI used to have some examples to start with.
Today I believe Python would be a safe bet, just as someone already pointed out. You need to invest in programming the stuff, but no license manager is calling home and no google constantly looking over your shoulder.
Patrick Stone
Thank you very much for this article. The posts have been very useful as well. I am beginning my first journey with a 34970A, and I believe this information saved me a great deal of headache. I would encourage an update or another article on the open source workarounds that others have created. As a community, I’ll bet we can do something good with this situation. Thanks again for everyone that has contributed thus far.
Brian Wood
Hey everyone, Brian here from BenchVue Support at Keysight. Just a note to say that many of the comments here have been addressed. The “BenchVue Included” program was due in large part to the fact that we heard you and found a way to raise the price of our instruments by a small amount so that licenses could be included with instrument purchases at no additional charge (starting June 1, 2019).
And now with Keysight’s PathWave program, the various apps that make up BenchVue are being ported to the new architecture (C++, multi-OS support, cloud computing, more). The look and feel is similar, licenses will migrate, and new instrument models and new features will continue to be added in these standalone apps. Since they are separate from the platform, they won’t weigh down your system with anywhere near as much bloat. You can download and install only the apps you need.
Of course that also means that if you *want* to use the features built into the platform (Test Flow, Start All, Stop All, Load All States, Export All, Data Manager, Library, integrated license management) you will have to use the old versions of the apps.
Also, it will take us quite a while to move over support for the 700+ models that “Classic BenchVue” currently supports. We currently have standalone apps for the DMM, FG, Scope and PS, with more coming soon.
As the main factory support person for BenchVue, I can personally attest to the fact that the stability has improved greatly. Not that it’s perfect, but it’s way better than it was when this thread was started. We do run into some pretty bizarre situations, though, thanks to problems largely out of our control, such as .NET bugs, Microsoft KB updates, VISA library corruption, MATLAB compiler runtime issues, instrument firmware updates, IT rules that play havoc with installation, GPU oddities, and confusion about how licenses actually work.
A word of advice for anyone having problems – make sure your instrument firmware is up-to-date, install the latest version of BV app compatible with your support subscription, use Test Flow’s SCPI and/or Command Expert blocks to talk to unsupported/competitive hardware (even screen shots can be done easily, for free), and if you are using an 82357B USB-GPIB adapter to talk to your 34970A, change the address from 9 to 10. If you use RS-232 adapters, make sure they support HW handshaking. Finally, our Tier 1 and 2 agents are very good, so don’t be afraid to call KeysightCare for help. Just remember that starting May 1, you will need to provide proof that you have a current support subscription.
Wolfgang
Hi Brian,
its a while since my personal BenchVue story was over, and I see now that Keysight has learned something from the desaster the first approach has left. I still think that the IT complexity of the products is way to large, and that makes your product unstable and dependent on a whole universe of external components you cannot control. You are saying this yourself, but this problem wont go away.
Why is’nt there a lean, generic Python interface to all this ? It runs stable as a rock, has few external components, and Python math and graphics is as least as good as all the proprietary stuff. On top of that, you have no problems with multivendor environments.
For my side, I will not even consider using proprietary add-ons any longer. I have many instruments (VNAs, SAs, DMMs, PSUs, SMUs, FGs, Counters, SGs, Scopes) but also stuff Keysight does not make. Its critical that I am able to control a complete measurement setup, not just the instruments by a single vendor.
Open interfaces have no alternatives, I suppose.
Brian Wood
Hi Wolfgang. Python is not a panacea either. There are big differences between versions, so 2.x to 3.x can be a problem. I’ve had no end of trouble getting it to work right with some SDR software I’m trying to use on a Raspberry Pi 4.
Nevertheless, there are several ways to use Keysight HW in a Python environment. You can export sequences developed in Command Expert to various formats including Python. Here’s a little snippet showing what’s needed to talk to a Keysight instrument from Python:
import pyvisa
import time
import os
os.add_dll_directory(‘C:\\Program Files (x86)\\Keysight\\IO Libraries Suite\\bin’)
# start of DMM measurement
rm = pyvisa.ResourceManager(‘ktvisa32’)
v34470A = rm.open_resource(‘TCPIP0::192.168.0.48::INSTR’)
temp_values = v34470A.query_ascii_values(‘:MEASure:VOLTage:DC?’)
dcVoltage = temp_values[0]
print(dcVoltage)
v34470A.close()
rm.close()
# end of DMM measurement
Wolfgang
Hi Brian,
It seems to be a good idea to clear up a few misunderstandings.
– I am a PhD student (almost done) and am using a large range of Pro Keysight equipment (E5071C, N9000A, N5171/72,U4000B,34465A, 34470A, B2962A,B2902A,DSOS0604,53230A,33622A, …) every day. But also
non-Keysight Equipment like R&S FSWP or some auxiliary Rigol stuff is part of the lab.
– For my work, I wrote about 20K lines of Python/PyVisa code to use the equipment in test automation. So, thanks for your example.
– I have a Windows-10 only environment, and I have to say that Python 3.6/PyVisa just works. Using native SCPI, I can access all instrument functions and not some
crippled (and always incomplete) command subset as implemented in BenchVue. This is only natural; BenchVue is absolutely far off from covering ALL instrument functionalities of complex instruments with a 1K pages programming manual. BecnVue is beginners tool, not for pros, with limited functional coverage and no elegant inclusion of non-Keysight equipment. And, to my experience, is much more buggy than Python ever was (on Windows). As long this is free (as all other hardware vendors do it), no problem.
Becoming philosophically, the old HP way was to enable people acvieve something by supplying well-documented, open instruments that could serve needs that not even the inventors of the instrument could think of. Now, we see a trend for a proprietary ecosystem where you try to generate a constant flow of revenue by nudging the user to work with closed-source tools, proprietary probe interfaces, pay-per-use software and the like. That might work if you have a cutting edge advantage over the market, otherwise (like BenchVue I) its a marketing desaster. Only dumb people would like to be fenced in and pay for the fence on top.
Some ideas here:
https://electronicprojectsforfun.wordpress.com
Brian Wood
Wolfgang,
I can vouch for the issues encountered in Python when the examples were written for 2.7 and I am trying to use 3.x. Never could get it to work right. If I could get everything I need in 3.x, that would be grand. But I can’t. Have to wait for all the libraries to catch up with each other.
The argument about pricing has been made moot because of “BenchVue Included”. Anyone who buys a supported high-volume instrument gets a BV license with it, at no extra charge.
Non-Keysight HW is controllable using SCPI from Test Flow, or using SCPI or IVI drivers via Command Expert, which is callable from Test Flow. But we don’t feel any obligation to provide a fancy GUI for our competitors’ instruments.
We do have plenty of pros using BV. In fact, NASA tested the Mars helicopter (on Earth) using BV!
Wolfgang
Hi Brian,
Python two is double as old as BenchVue and phased out since a long time. What Python stuff is missing in V3.6 (I did not find any) ?
I have no pricing argument with free tools. As long its free, who cares.
The support for non-Keysight hardware in BenchVue is so rudimentary that its
almost useless (try to juggle some binary or raw data).
Nobody asks you to write GUIs for instruments you dont make. But if you try to sell an integration platform, it would be a sales argument that YOU as the user could do it if the need arises. That, in turn, needs open APIs. Example: For ultra-stable oscillator tests, I need 6 34470s, a scope, 2 SMUs, and a phase noise analyzer Keysight does not have (R&S FSWP working at 5MHz). With BenchVue: no chance. Python: No problem to remote control this. Lots of other examples.
I dont know any pro who uses BV for serious tasks. And I really hope the Mars helicopter was not tested just on BV alone (coming from personal suffering).
Steven
Hi Wolfgang,
I am using 3.7 version of BenchVue and 3.4 version of DMM app for my 34461A. It is annoying that a paid license is needed to log data beyond 1 hour. Is there an early version available that allows unlimited data logging?
Cheers
Steven
Brian Wood
Wolfgang,
We used to have a “Pro” license that removed the one-hour restriction. But those licenses are obsolete and no longer available. The latest platform is free, and the DMM App has an $80 node-locked one-year license (our cheapest) that has no restrictions. Also, if you own a BenchVue-supported DMM newer than June 1, 2019, you qualify for a “BenchVue Included” license, which you can enable at no additional charge other than the cost of the DMM.
Brian Wood
Keysight BenchVue Support
Wolfgang
Hi STeven,
unfortunately I deinstalled BenchVue completely after I switched to Python, so I dont know. Due to an ongoing shitstorm they change their license policy constantly, annoying users any day. First, it was free, then all pay, then some crippled version free, then free with new instruments, then free with a new instrument but not an old one of the same type – too much for me.
What I would to is the following:
– Start the BV version you have, and connect your DMM
– Enable Keysight IO Trace
– Run your measurement and record all SCPI commands
(probably no very complex in your case)
– Run the same command in Python. Simple, no license, works as long as you want, forever free.
To Brian:
– I suffer with you because you have to defend the idiotic moves of a braindead marketing department insisting to extract continuous revenue from existing customers by denying them the use of trivial functions.
As this thread shows, life can be a harsh mistress.
Steven
Hi Wolfgang,
Thank you for the reply. I will give your method a try. I think Brian was trying to answer me which was nice of him although it pretty much just boils down to “pay us to perform basic functions when using our equipment with a computer”.
Keithley/Tektronix did the same thing removing their Kickstart 1.9.8 utility provides good range of basic functions of unlimited data logging. I requested them to provide the app to me but not surprisingly they ignored me. I did eventually find a copy of that online. (not easy) I also did ask Keysight to provide me a copy of Agilent DMM utility which provides unlimited logging before I found a copy of the app from a fellow user.
I do not know what other reasons there are to make these basic free app unavailable through the official channels making them almost impossible to obtain. It is just so obvious there is financial interest to the company to remove free options and push paid options. I am not against that idea. These guys have a company to run and profit is not too much to ask. But the strategy of taking away free features (by removing free unlimited version) and start charging users for basically the same thing is not good for the users. These are people who have paid for the hardware which was advertised to work with the free unlimited app. The smallest help you can offer is making the app still available to download.
Sigh… I guess there is still good money for Keysight’s decision and Brian as a company man is just obligated to defend it.
Brian Wood
Guys,
One thing to remember is that if all you want is a simple DMM measurement, no logging, no exports, no Test Flow, no interaction with other instruments, it’s not that hard to use SCPI to send the command to the DMM to take a reading. :MEAS:VOLT:DC? 10,.001 is all you need to take a reading on the 10V range with .001V resolution. You can do this in any number of languages or even use the free Test Flow sequencer in BV, using the SCPI block, to do it. You can also use Command Expert to help you find the right commands. In fact you can also use Interactive IO in Connection Expert to do it.
Brian
Steven
Missing the point Brian. There is little point in taking single measurement with a command other than for testing purpose. People can just do the same with the instrument front panel. Logging data beyond 1 hour is important. I log data with 34461A for 24hrs+. I cannot be there all the time hence I need data logging automated. Having that option moved behind a paywall is not good for the users who spent the money on your instruments already. It is cool for you to say “but you never paid for the software, it was just a courtesy from Agilent”. Problem is every Agilent branded DMM back then was sold with this statement in your own market material for the Truevolt series – “DMM Connectivity Utility software enables control, capture and views of your DMM’s data on your PC or mobile device with a single click”. Now, how can people use it when the software is removed? Oh wait BenchVue is asking for money! Not a good look from a user perspective is it?
Brian Wood
The DMM Connectivity Utility morphed into BenchVue 7 years ago. BenchVue added a lot of capability, but was designed to help sell our instruments, not to be a for-sale product. When Agilent spun off Keysight, Keysight decided it wanted to become a software-centric solutions company, and thus, the software was going to have to be for sale. If BenchVue was to continue being offered, it had to be for sale. So the BV team wrestled with how to make it as affordable as possible while meeting the new corporate licensing requirements and generating enough revenue to be able to continue being offered. The result was a plethora of license choices – fixed to one PC, transportable to other PCs, USB portable via a dongle, and network-based. Then, largely as a result of comments in this very blog, we found a way to raise the price of the BenchVue-supported instruments very slightly to allow us to offer BV “free.” But we couldn’t make that retroactive to all instrument purchases – it had to start on the date of the price increase. So there were now five license types ranging from $0 to $2000 depending on type of license. Then the company decided that support would have to be done a different way, which resulted in many options for support terms. When the company then decided that everything we made had to be written in C++ and not use .NET so as to allow future use as cloud-based apps and run on more than just Windows, BV again had to morph, so all apps are being completely rewritten to be compatible with the “PathWave” standards. That has resulted in “standalone” apps that are a lot more lightweight, since the platform “bulk” is not needed, which was another complaint voiced in this very blog. But you can’t justify the huge investment in engineering without charging for it. Remember, it’s not just the DMM. There are about 30 apps involved, supporting over 700 models of Keysight instruments. So, BV has been buffeted by multiple corporate decisions, but we’re still here, still growing, still providing cool software to use with our top-notch instruments. And you also get top-notch support when you call and ask for help through our global support organization. If you don’t want any of that, well, you can write your own app using SCPI. That’s just the way it is.
Steven
You awesome support just told me to buy Pathwave BenchVue because they do not have the Agilent DMM Connectivity Utility anymore.
What huge engineering cost is behind that utility? You said the app was helping the sale of your instruments. So if the finance dept was not daft they would have factored the dev costs into the price of the instruments. Just like how you increased prices in 2019 to include a BV pro license for then sold instruments. Therefore it is very likely that users already paid for the development of the Agilent utility. Why take that away and tell people only need basic data logging to buy or write SCPI?
Your company literally rebranded and repackged basic software features people bought your stuff for, and attempted sell it back to them. When the sales did not go well? Your company wiped out the download of the basic app. You know it did not go well because users do not like to pay twice for the same thing and a lot of people out there just need some basic features.
Brian Wood
You guys are missing the point. I will not comment on sales, but I will say that you are wrong about it not being a success. Licensing changes were done company-wide and were not a result of lackluster sales of any particular product. I have been with BV since the beginning, and have tried to stick up for the little guy as we navigate all the changing corporate requirements, which is in large part why we now offer the software free with purchase of an instrument. Want BV for free? Buy a cheap DMM, and you can then use it with all your other DMMs, on as many PCs as you want, forever.
Steven
Taking basic features away and reselling it to those who already paid for it is not on. No I do not want BV for free, I value the work of the engineers who made it, whose work I paid for through purchase of the instruments. But I would not pay for it twice.
Wolfgang
When something trivial was free for a long time, you will always have a hard time telling users they now need to pay for this. Benchvue has so many disadvantages that its very hard to convince users to pay for this gook:
– Closed environment. Keysight only. The support for other equipment is completely crippled and not half serious.
– Incredibly huge footprint. Installs some Gigabytes, background monitor processes scanning all your disks, a license manager and whatnot.
– Usefulness is fairly modest, function coverage of more complex equipment is incomplete, and it has many bugs surviving for years.
Benchvue and its license model has been redesign many times just in the last few years. Let me guess why: It never became a big success and as popular as the marketing geeks wanted it to be.
Doctor
Having a complete hell in our company at the moment trying to get the floating licenses to work with BenchVue.
Just avoid.
Brian Wood
Doctor,
Floating licenses are our most complicated. Lots of things can get in the way, including firewall restrictions from IT departments, existing Flexera servers, network issues, etc. Make sure all clients can ping the server. Make sure you are installing the licenses on the server and that the MAC address of the server matches that of the license file. Please reach out to KeysightCare for help if you continue to have problems. If they can’t help, they will call me and I will help them help you. That’s what we’re here for!
Brian
Darren
Hey Wolfgang,
I’ve been following the thread, your blog is awesome and if that pillock at Keysight had of taken 30 seconds to read it he would have discovered you’re probably not someone to condescend when it comes to programming python. And from a sales perspective? :-0 I’m shocked. My guess is after your PHD you’ll be snapped up by Cern or financed for you own lab. So the only quest left is, will you be buying R&S, Tektronix or Lecroy? lol
And just to point out people of Keysight, most of your DEV costs are likely coming from the process of locking up your software in the first place, if you put more DEV dollars into improving the software and not into licence management for your software, it might actually work a little better after 4 years? Just a thought……
Wolfgang
Hi Darren,
thanks for the compliments, in fact I am using a lot of Keysight and other equipment and from the hardware point of view most Keysight stuff is never cheap, but quite good. BenchVue is not even close to the normal Keysight quality level, and for me it has the maturity, functional coverage, flexibility and stability of free giveway toys from other manufacturers, i.e. its a pest to use for any nontrivial purpose. I fully agree with you that the incredibly bloated license manager presents a sharp contrast to the very limited functionality BenchVue provides. Keysight instruments only with no serious possibility for mixed vendor environments, reduced command sets only, buggy, not really stable, … Come on. First do it right, then ask for money …
Don
I own a small chemical products manufacturing company, reading with interest for our lab decisions. I see both sides, but we are uninstalling our Keysight software and will use other software solutions – it was too much. And I feel for the Keysight employees that have to be the firetruck for so many complaints that spread and remain on servers and in user memory for many years. That would be a nightmare for our company and I will do just about anything to never let that happen.
Your discussions have just saved my company a lot of time and money. We have similar issues with other vendors who think this way, and are eliminating them one by one when possible.
Wolfgang
Hi Don,
well, you’re not alone with your problems. I like most Keysight hardware, but their software like BenchVue is just a hassle. I have very good experiences with controlling mixed vendor environments via SCPI and Python. It can do way more than vendor-specific crippleware, its free and all the bugs are your own – and thats good news.
Kevin
I just ran across this thread and it will save me some time (thanks).
Who in the heck wants to deal with software problems, limited functionality, licensing bs and IT involvement when you’re trying to get work done.
Come on Keysight, with all the cheap mediocre test equipment ballasting container ships just keep making professional test equipment and support it with included drivers / software. You will make more money by helping the little guy because they spread the gospel when they end up working for the big guys. Leave software revenue streams to the web geeks. You may want to prep for the AI takeover though lol.
I first starting using HP automated test equipment back in the 80s with a room full of 19″ racks all connected through HPIB to an HP PC with HP Basic lol. But it worked perfectly. I moved to product development and left that to test engineering people.
I have helped a few production groups set up testing with 34970s, 75000 Bs and various supplies / scopes etc. and generally used VB6 for GUIs – SCPI to the hardware. I also set some up with Benchlink for simple data collection during temp cycles which seemed to work well.
I had a job thrown at me this week and looked at a 34980 setup and thought BenchVue might meet their needs. With all the versions, problems and caveats, maybe not . May have to waste a week on a custom GUI and testing where I thought it might take just some channel configurations. Oops.
Wolfgang
I beg to disagree, somewhat. The problem is not that the idea of a cross-instrument integration platform is flawed as such (a lot of people need that, NI makes a lot of money from that), but that Keysight software product is expensive, buggy, crippled and not cross-vendor. They could do this right, if they want. Only, they did not and try to go after fast money with a crappy product that convinces nobody. Money from software is fully OK if it has the same quality and productivity as Keysight hardware mostly has. They are veryfar from this. But as long as you can do everything using SCPI and Python you wont miss BenchVue. Its a toy console for beginners.