Albert sent in a deal tip about Makita’s X2 circular saw. Over at Home Depot, they’re offering a special bundle that includes two 18V batteries for free!
We’ve seen this deal before, and assumed it was special for the holidays. But, seeing as how it’s now late-January, two thoughts come to mind.
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Is Makita having trouble selling their X2 tools? For example, Milwaukee’s 18V Fuel full-size brushless circular saw seems to be in far greater demand than Makita’s non-brushless X2 model.
Or maybe Makita just has a stockpile of 18V 3Ah batteries that they want to move. They just came out with 4.0ah batteries in the USA, and haven’t even announced the 5.0Ah batteries that are widely available overseas. Other brands are already talking about 6.0Ah batteries. It’s going to be hard for any brand to effectively sell 3.0Ah battery packs pretty soon.
Maybe there’s a 3rd possible explanation that eludes me.
In any case, for $229 you get the bare saw and (2) free battery packs. If you don’t already have a charger, you’ll have to buy one.
How much is the required charger? $100! The lowest I could find the DC18RC charger for is $90 at some online dealers. You might as well buy the special Makita 18V hammer drill kit for $99. That way you get a hammer drill, a third battery, and a charger.
Or you could buy the dual port charger for $129. Although some dual-batteries tools, such as Festool’s cordless circular saw, can work with 1 or 2 batteries, I believe the X2 must be equipped with 2 charged batteries to work. And so the dual port charger might make sense.
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fred
How much is the required charger? $100! The lowest I could find the DC18RC charger for is $90 at some online dealers.
How about ToolUp ($50 for the DC18RC ):
http://www.toolup.com/makita_dc18rc_18v-lxt-lithium-ion-rapid-optimum-charger.aspx
Stuart
Don’t know how they can offer it for so much cheaper. Maybe they’re separating some kits into tools, batteries, and chargers?
fred
It could be what you say. While not in Amazon’s league, I think they are a pretty big seller. They seem to stock lots of items – and (I think) they most often ship from their own warehouses. I’ve bought from them over several years both for personal and professional use and have been happy – although you need to be sure of what you want since their return policy is not as liberal as Amazon.
Pablo
The industry has turned brushless into such a buzzword in the past few years, that it’s an uphill battle releasing a premium tool that is not brushless.
Even if the brushless version is weaker/heavier/less runtime, it would sell more than the brushed version.
Milwaukee has that nailed down pretty well by slanging brushless tools left and right. Everyone is begging DeWalt to release more brushless, even though their brushed tools are pretty close performance-wise.
adam
What evidence do you have to support these claims, if the tools haven’t been released yet?
Pablo said “Everyone is begging DeWalt to release more brushless, even though their brushed tools are pretty close performance-wise.”
Why didn’t Dewalt release regular 40v yard tools? It seems if they performed the same, Dewalt wouldn’t throw down a bunch of r&D $$ if they didn’t have to.
adam
also, power isn’t the only factor in comparing. runtime also is a big thing for many
Joe
[quote]The industry has turned brushless into such a buzzword in the past few years, that it’s an uphill battle releasing a premium tool that is not brushless.[/quote]
That are many variables to just saying it that simplistic way. For example, I hate to use Milwaukee as an example, but I know for a fact that they use different brushless motor specs that gives them greater power to sacrifice in other areas. Dewalts brushless is not as big but spins faster than milwaukies, if I can remember correctly…there are too many variables to look at very closely but at the end of the day, fuel 12v line have torque due to their beefy brushless motor.
[quote]Even if the brushless version is weaker/heavier/less runtime, it would sell more than the brushed version.[/quote]
I took a couple of days to compare brushless in many brands like festool, milwaukee, dewalt, makita, others…and I only did it by looking at their specs plus the size of their motors and the way they had their windings plus the count of poles too. etc. I only did it to educate myself and I came out that brushless sure is benefitial in the tools just like festool has been doing (like their drywall screw guns) but brushless is not for all tools IMO. But then again, there can be inprovements in the transmision in the future since most of the torque comes from the planetary gears too. It’s complicated lol
Pablo
What’s also interesting is how Metabo is the only company that’s attempting to buck the trend that brushless is always better. They make both brushed and brushless tools, and sometimes their brushed tools are a good bit more powerful.
http://cdn.metabo.com/tt/pics/c91499a994.jpg
For example, their brushed SB18 LTX will belt out 974 in-lbs, but their brushless SB18 LTX BL will “only” do 797 in-lbs. They also say that as the demanded torque goes up, the advantage actually goes to the brushed tool.
http://i.imgur.com/ch0FBNr.png
Things that make you go hmm…
Pablo
Here’s a “very German” test comparing the two back to back:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWMdXWl1–g
huu
This is nothing new. Impact drivers where the motor never slows down under torque were the first and best application of brushless. OTOH on angle grinders brushed will offer better performance for most applications.
JMG
Speaking of the Festool TSC 55 cordless saw: Are there any recent rumors as to if or when we get to see them in the states?
The Makita does require both batteries to be installed to run, which does not bother me over-much. As it is, it has plenty of power to get the job done. Might have been nice if they had given it the ability to run on a track though.
Chris
You can get a makita charger for a good bit less than $100.
take for example
http://www.jccayer.com/product.php?productid=294
not sure why but the big box stores always seem to be much more expensive when it comes to makita chargers.
If this deal was avaliable in Canada I would be very tempted, even though I perfer the blade on the left.
John
The third possibility is, that Makitais having issues with battery and tool compatibility. Go to their website and see the star chart for battery compatibility
Jerry
I wonder, with the newer generation of 18V tools, if the demand for the X2 line isn’t shrinking. The way I figure it, there was a place for saws like this one not long ago, when it made headlines when 18V batteries got bigger than 3AH. Now, we can buy 4, 5, and soon 6AH batteries, if we can’t already. From what I understand, the larger AH batteries not only provide for a longer runtime, but they can provide a larger current draw as well. Remember, volts X amps = watts, and it is watts that is the actual measure of work. If you double the amperage of a battery, you should be able to do double the work (in theory, at least, provided the connections and wiring are up to the task). So anyway, it would seem to me, that a saw, with two 3AH batteries, would do the same work as a similar saw with a single 6 AH battery. Now, if that 6 AH battery could provide twice the current draw (amps). The saw should also have equal power, but will need wiring capable of carrying the higher amperage. The question is, whether the trade off of heavier wiring, switches, etc. is offset by needing only one battery. I do farm maintanence, and that includes replacing electric motors, many of which can be wired to run on either 120 or 240 volts. A motor that draws 10 amps at 120 volts, will draw 5 amps at 240 volts, with the same load. We wire for 240 when practical, because we can use smaller wire, which can be a big deal running wire a hundred feet or more, but with a battery 6 inches from the motor on a cordless tool, I can’t see it being a big deal compared to incorporating a second battery port. I have an 18V NiCad circular saw, and it has the power to cut 2X12s, and rip 3/4 inch plywood. All it really NEEDS is more runtime. Yes, power is lacking compared to a plug in saw, but if i were building a house, I’d probably use a corded saw anyway, preferably a worm drive, for heavy use, and a cordless for smaller jobs here and there. My 18V XRP can easily do all the framing for a closet on one charge, and probably all the cuts necessary for the rough framing for 2 walls of a house. The more I think about it, the more I lean towards one larger battery. You don’t need two chargers for two batteries, and keeping them in sync.
Stuart
https://14cyiuhvcgv.com/cordless-power-tool-faq-what-does-ah-really-mean/%3C/a%3E%3C/p%3E
Amp-hour is not the same as amps. Larger Ah does not necessarily mean you a higher current draw.
Let’s say the 2.0Ah cells used in a 4.0Ah pack are rated for up to 20A load. 2.5Ah and 3.0Ah cells used in a 5.0Ah and 6.0Ah packs won’t necessarily be rated any higher. The rating or real-world limits might vary, but it won’t be by much.
The control circuitry should be the same, such that the power draw from a high capacity battery pack is the same, whether 3.0Ah, 4.0Ah, 5.0Ah, or 6.0Ah. This way you get consistent performance.
Since high capacity battery packs have two sets of battery cells to provide extra runtime, you can in theory squeeze extra power out of the pack. For example, Milwaukee’s brushless drills can deliver higher torque with their higher capacity battery packs, compared to their compact packs.
In theory, if a compact battery pack can deliver 20A of current, a high capacity pack could deliver 40A. But this is never seen in practice. I would imagine that certain high performance tools are designed to draw maybe 10-15% higher current from higher capacity battery packs than compact battery packs.
Makita doesn’t do this – they make many of their 18V tools incompatible with their compact battery packs as a way to ensure consistent performance.
JMG
The original engineering that Makita used to limit access to compact batteries also has a major downside in their current battery upgrade path as well. Many old stock tools still being sold will only use the 3ah battery pack due to the type of block built into the battery mount to keep them from using the compact unit. I purchased a couple of these tools this past year that I now wish I had waited to do so until the new versions had become available (I wasn’t paying attention to what was in the channel). Granted I could modify the tools to accept the larger packs, but that is something that goes against safety practices I generally adhere to.
On the flip side of this; the tools originally designed for the compact battery type will accept the new larger packs as there is no blocking in the mount to bar their use. This inconsistency makes on wonder if there will be problems down the road for these older tools when using the newest large packs.
Jerry
Ok, let me try to clarify. What I was meaning, was that it would be more practical, to make a battery with both higher storage (AH) and higher output (amps), and be able to use that bigger battery on your existing tools, than to go to a whole different platform/voltage. No harm would come from using the bigger battery on smaller tools, (they will just draw what they need) and people with common sense would know to use the bigger battery for the higher powered tool. Just add a label that says something to the effect that the tool will only give full performance with the bigger battery. This would give the added benefit of a single platform, and extended runtime for your existing tools.
huu
“watts that is the actual measure of work”
No. Work (symbol W, this might be where your confusion comes from?) is force times distance, and the unit is joule (J). A watt (W) is a unit of power (P).
Julian. Tracy
I’ve chiseled out the little plastic “stop” tab in my Makita that made it so the compact batteries wouldn’t fit. I’ve had a set of about 4 compact batts in addition to the 3.0 batts that have been used on any number of tools they weren’t designed for; no ill affect after a few years of use.
I will say I’ve specifically made sure not to use the tools past the initial drop in power, especially with the compacts. That’s sure to have helped them last.
As to brushless, whatever… Sure, if you need a drill or saw, I’d buy the BL versions, but I’m not so unimpressed with my brushed cordless tools to think I’ll pay to upgrade.
BL marketing has turned into the megapixels of the camera world – the false assumption that more megapixels automatically equals more quality….
JT
Chip
I bought the bare saw (clearance aisle) for$58!
Amazon warehouse deals gave me the fan for $40….now I need batteries ,charger,and the chain saw for cheap.