I have been having difficulty getting answers to my press/media questions regarding Makita’s new 40V Max XGT cordless power tool lineup.
I sent some questions, copied below, to the two Makita USA product managers who presented on XGT, as well as to Makita’s marketing communications manager. It has been 3 weeks, and Makita USA has not provided any answers or insights so far. I figure that if I post my questions here, maybe that’ll help to move things along.
I know my emails can be a bit wordy, but was I not polite enough?
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To put it frankly, I don’t understand Makita’s approach or goals with XGT, and was hoping they could untangle some threads.
XGT is Makita’s higher-power cordless tool solution – that much is clear – intended to compete against other brands’ heavier duty offerings. But, Makita also suggests this new cordless system will target everyday users, such as woodworkers and cabinet installers, claiming the lineup will meet users’ total cordless needs. They say they’ll continue expanding the LXT system alongside XGT, but then why are all the cool new tools and features seemingly exclusive to the XGT platform?
All of these claims can be true independently, but put them together and they conflict with each other.
I was hoping to better understand what Makita is going for with XGT, and for better cohesion between the very different claims Makita is making. For instance, there’s a new Makita XGT cordless brad nailer available overseas, and there doesn’t appear to be an 18V version. Other 40V Max XGT tools are also getting features that aren’t available in the 18V LXT lineup.
XGT can be both a higher-powered cordless system and an everyday handheld cordless tool system, but then where does Makita’s 18V LXT system fit in here? They say that the LXT system will exist alongside the XGT system, but where is the line between the two systems? Will there be two separate one battery platform solutions? No other cordless power tool brand does this.
If XGT is said to be a one battery platform solution for users’ cordless jobsite needs, what can we expect? For instance if a woodworker or cabinet installer buys into XGT, will there be cordless sander and router solutions, or will such users need to maintain multiple battery platforms, contradicting Makita’s marketing claims?
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With XGT, I’m hoping for clearer insights into the brand’s approach and intent. However, there’s also the possibility that the problem isn’t with my understanding, but that their marketing claims are utterly disjointed. Everything will become more apparent over the next few years, but clarity is needed now.
Here’s what I asked:
Makita XGT Cordless Power Tool System Questions
Thank you for the March presentation on XGT, it was very informative. Would you be open to discussing more about how XGT fits into the competitive landscape?
Specifically, I am having difficulty sorting out the areas where LXT and XGT overlap and [potentially] compete against each other with respect to handheld power tools.
In the presentation, you emphasized that XGT will be one battery platform that completes users’ total cordless jobsite needs, with handheld tools such as an impact driver, circular saw, drill, or “whatever that might be.”
Some of the new handheld tools, such as the hew hammer drill, overlap into 18V LXT territory, but offer the “latest design and tech” that Makita has in mind for the XGT platform.
Will the XGT platform be limited to these core handheld power tools? I am aware that the XGT line will also have jobsite radios, flashlights, and a fan.
If Makita is to maintain 18V LXT and 40V Max XGT as separate “One System” platforms, with 18V aimed at the users who don’t need higher power offerings, where do those XGT handheld tools fit in?
With the new hammer drill, the anti-kickback tech is a safety feature, and the electronic clutch is described as a way to target new trades such as “woodworkers and cabinet installers,” and not just the needs of heavy residential construction users.
In other words, XGT seems to provide compelling advantages for handheld power tool users, and not just those interested in the higher power 80V Max solutions.
Where will the lines be drawn in both systems? Will XGT stop here, or will it offer additional tools found in the 18V LXT system, such as cordless ratchets and oscillating multi-tools?
You said that there are limitations that prevent Makita from developing a higher powered battery that could be paired on a 15 year old 18V LXT tool. Are some of the same limitations responsible for why the new 18V LXT hammer drill lacks the advanced features found in the XGT model?
As the XGT platform grows, will the new platform essentially compete against the LXT platform with respect to users looking for a one-system solution to fit their handheld cordless power tool needs?
I am having trouble seeing how LXT and XGT can become separate “One System” solutions. Consider the woodworker that wants a cordless sander, but also a heavier duty drill with anti-kickback tech. Which Makita cordless platform will be that user’s “one system” solution?
How can XGT grow and provide a “complete cordless jobsite” without cannibalizing and competing against the 18V LXT system?
I am also curious as to why a one-way adapter wouldn’t be possible. HPT’s MultiVolt battery can fit their 36V tools and 18V tools, and Dewalt FlexVolt batteries can fit their 60V Max and 20V Max tools. I would think users would be extremely eager to see an XGT to LXT adapter so that they could get the best of both systems without having to maintain two completely different sets of batteries. I know there must be good reasons, whether this was by design or LXT tool-related limitations.
Makita XGT Drill/Driver Questions
I hope you don’t mind, but I am eager to learn more about Makita’s new XGT cordless drill technologies.
In the video presentation, you discussed how the new electronic digital clutch and anti-kickback tech “allows Makita to now target other trades such as woodworking and cabinet installers.”
To me, this seems to create appeal for the XGT system and its handheld power tools that’s separate from the higher-powered 80V Max options, especially for users solely interested in handheld everyday-use types of tools.
Will these features, and others like them, also be found in the 18V LXT offerings? The 18V XPH14, for example, was recently launched with identical torque specs, but it does not have the same anti-kickback feature as the XGT model.
I am hoping to understand why the similarly-powered 18V tool was not designed with the same features. Is this due to a limitation of the battery interface, or is it simply a way to differentiate 18V LXT from 40V Max XGT products?
I understand that this might not be something you are able to answer. Any answer you provide would be considered unfit for quoting unless you specify otherwise.
Could you also describe the electronic digital clutch? In testing other brands’ products, I have found electronic clutches to be less precise compared to traditional mechanical clutch designs. Is this inherent to all electronic clutches, or has Makita found a way to ensure repeatability that matches that of mechanical clutches (at the least)?
Additionally, I understand that there are 41 clutch settings for one of the speed modes. Does changing the clutch setting require individual presses of the button? What is the experience for users who want to adjust from say level 2 to level 40?
Mike
They do have an 18V version of the 2nd-gen 18ga brad nailer coming soon. It’s supported fastener length is shorter than the 40V, and it’s not on the US website yet. Otherwise seems like it’s a sister tool to the 40V:
https://www.makita.ca/index2.php?event=tool&id=3418&catid=9
Lukas Chodur
Of course it’s finally coming after i finally went for milwaukee 18ga
MM
I don’t think you went too far, Stuart. Those Emails seem polite and reasonable to me.
If you ever hear back I’m very curious to hear what they say about the one-way battery adapter, or why the XGT batteries cannot be used on the LGT tools the same way the Flexvolt batts are backwards-compatible with 20V max tools. To me it seems mindblowingly idiotic that they did not design XGT batteries to be backwards-compatible with LGT tools. The only possible explanation I can think of is a legal one–perhaps Dewalt has patents making this a problem?
Also, there is absolutely no technical reason why an anti-kickback brake would be limited to the 40V platform. Makita could have put one in the XPH14; someone made a conscious decision not to put one in there. Of course I have no idea why–maybe to keep the cost of the LGT model down, maybe to give people a reason to “step up” to the XGT, etc, but it’s most certainly not technical.
Chris S
I think I literally got a head ache from parsing the “XGT” and “LXT” being used back and forth in your questions.
I feel this speaks volumes to good “consumer friendly” branding and Makita doesn’t doesn’t come to mind with that.
Milwaukee has done a decent job with M12 and M18 being easy enough, but for people not fluent in “Milwaukee-ese” the brushed, brushless, and FUEL categories can throw some people.
Hopefully MX will stay separate and not add to confusion.
Dewalt is…just…no. (8,12,20,40,60,120,flexvolt…etc.)
Stuart
That’s the thing – I have a very thorough understanding of Milwaukee’s philosophies and how their different sub-categories are differentiated, and the same is true with most other brands.
Most brands will gladly ensure I perfectly understand the motivation behind a tool or product family.
Here, I’m stuck, and it seems Makita’s claims are contradicting each other. I gave them the benefit of the doubt, and hoped some discussion could clear things up. They thanked me for my “thoughtful questions” and suggested answers would be forthcoming, but that was 20 days ago. Subsequent emails were never responded to.
Dewalt has tidied things up. 8V Max is limited to specific tools (similarly to Milwaukee M4), 12V Max is their compact line, 20V Max is their main line, and FlexVolt is their higher powered solution. Their subcategories can be a bit blurry, but there’s enough context and background information for me to understand and infer.
Makita USA has always been reticent. Maybe it’s because they are structured differently? Dewalt and Milwaukee, for example, are based here and they develop most of their tools here. I’m of the increasing impression that Makita USA is only a regional marketing branch, selling and servicing tools designed in Japan. But, similar positioning doesn’t stop brands like Metabo, Metabo HPT (formerly Hitachi), Festool, Bosch, and others from readily providing information and insights.
I don’t get it.
If a reader asks a question, “I don’t know” is the worst answer I can give. I’ve done everything I can to learn more about XGT, but Makita apparently doesn’t want to enlighten me.
Joseph
Is it that do not want to enlighten you or they just do not know? I would lean towards the second. I have never seen a company that does not at least have some marketing mumbo jumbo for the questions you are asking.
They do not have seemed to have answered the why of their lines. Or even really asked it themselves.
Stuart
One thing to keep in mind is that I’ve been running ToolGuyd for more than 12 years. I have worked with many different brands and companies, and every experience fits on a scale.
Let’s say I write about sushi.
At my local supermarket, the seafood department can answer all kinds of questions about their fish – where they come from, how to cook them, and for most varieties they receive whole fish and fillet them in-store.
At my local grocery store, they might not have whole fish, but they’re always fresh. I l recently asked why their “farmed” salmon tastes so much better (in my opinion) than wild salmon, and received a detailed explanation.
The insights matter, and it’s why I might go back and get that particular farmed salmon over wild salmon that sounds better on paper.
Then let’s say there’s another fish market. There’s a certain level of knowledge I would expect them to be able to convey based on their industry peers. If I ask them what kind of salmon they have, and they say “our salmon is the best,” that doesn’t help anyone.
Gerald
“I don’t know” is the worst answer I can give.
I think we revolve in different circles, I have found I dont know works a lot better than giving a wrong answer. Sometimes you just have to accept the fact, you dont know and they aint tellin.
Stuart
Knowingly providing the wrong answer is of course worse than “I don’t know.”
Gerald
When someone spends $100,000 on a robotic cell, unknowingly giving the wrong answer is just as bad as knowingly giving the wrong answer. At some point the customer has to do their due diligence.
I dont know may not be the answer you want to give, but it is a valid answer. Makita has some reason to be mum on the subject I guess, sometimes, it just is what it is
Stuart
It’s more of a last resort answer.
Let’s say you’re a robotic automation specialist and a client wants you to design and build a robotic cell for their plant. Are you going to recommend Supplier A who cannot provide necessary details for you to gauge their product’s suitability for your client’s needs, or are you going to go with Supplier B who can and has?
“Will Brand A suit my needs?”
“I don’t know and tried to find out, but they won’t offer any clarity; I’d go with Brand B.”
If my answer was simply “I don’t know,” and it’s not my fault, I’m going to make it clear where the blame should be directed.
mizzourob
I don’t think you’re the only one having doubts on this lineup, youtuber ontheworkbench had a (perhaps too long but detailed) expose comparing XGT to other higher voltage platforms that I had forgotten about that had come and went. That video was interesting when it pointed out that a dual battery XGT setup could match Milwaukee’s MXFuel on voltage. If that is possible I’m very intrigued by XGT but then doubt the future of LXT, and if dual battery XGT does not match MXFuel then I don’t see XGT lasting long.
Stuart
There’s no way XGT can match up to Milwaukee MX Fuel.
Voltage doesn’t mean much without context.
Makita XGT: 9V battery. Milwaukee MX Fuel: 6x D-sized batteries.
Makita will tell you “hey look – 80V Max” but comparing that to MX Fuel would be a laughably lopsided comparison in Milwaukee’s favor.
Brody
In what figures do you foresee MX being able to break into that x2 can’t?
I agree Milwaukee has better motor design and thus better output at a given voltage, but Makita isn’t really a slouch. If they actually stick to making more than just rotary hammers in 40×2, say into like cut off saw at 72v it’ll probably just trade blows with the fuel and not a clear winner or loser. Just like current impact lineups, there are winners but the wins are marginal. I don’t see how MX currently provides something that can’t be rivaled.
Stuart
Look at what MX Fuel launched with: https://14cyiuhvcgv.com/milwaukee-mx-fuel-cordless-tool-construction-equipment/%3C/a%3E%3C/p%3E
What is Makita XGT launching with that even comes close to MX Fuel options? There’s already a comparison.
Is Makita really going to come out with a comparable hammer breaker that’s powered by (2) 18V form factor batteries?
Yes, I’ve seen the images of giant seemingly 20-cell XGT batteries, but a big part of the XGT showing is that they went with a 36V battery configuration in an 18V form factor to avoid giving users a giant awkward battery. 20 cell batteries in handheld tools would be very awkward.
With MX Fuel, they could have went with 2x M18 batteries. But look at the size of the battery interface.
MX Fuel: 6pt racing harness in NASCAR racecar.
XGT: lap belt in 3-cylinder sedan.
Brody
In their 18×2 offerings they sell in packs with 4-5ah batteries. That alone is 20 cell count, I see no difference in packing a 40v 20cell battery on my blade left circular saw than I would 2 10 cell batteries on my blade left circular saw. Of course there is a huge downwards range where these 20 cell batteries are going to be god-awful, but to me these products already have solutions. Either sticking with a 12v type system, 18v system with a 1 row setup, or their new 36v (talking 40v max here) system with a dual row setup, and having other batteries as spares for my more demanding and runtime focused tools.
If Milwaukee can sell a 15 cell battery with the user understanding that it wasn’t ‘designed’ with their 1/4 impact driver in mind, then a user can also be presumed to understand that the 20 cell battery probably isn’t best compared to just using their 10 cell offerings standard in kits.
I uave no personal experience with their new 40v system, so all my statements are heresay, but I think a system that is able to be compact as an 18v standard offering, but expandable in-the-same-system as a 72v standard system is significantly more insightful to me as a forward direction.
Makita had a lot going with their 18×2 system, but they really jacked up some of their engineering and design that ultimately stunted the system when matched against a high-output 18v or 54v system. Them resetting is to me the best plan that they really had available.
I agree they really should have had more 40vx2 tools out if they wanted to sell the customer on the idea that they care at all about it. To me they rushed with what they had as they were already behind on release dates of the XGT system to the US. 40vx2 was most definitely an afterthought system, but a clever pivot if they fulfill on it.
IF they don’t release direct MX competitive tools (very soon) then they really are screwing themselves and the customer. Even more so if they bring out the leaked “64v max” line that they produced some batteries for.
As for the interface I don’t get why it matters? If they come out with a 20cell 21700 at 6.0AH then it serialized is exactly the same voltage, amperage, watt-hours, and cell count as the XC MX battery. Again in a more convenient form factor than just having on giant 72v battery limited to MX tools only.
MX Fuel: 6pt racing harness in NASCAR racecar (all it can be)
XGT: lap belt in 3-cylinder sedan. (That can theoretically double as a 6pt racing harness if done right)
Jared
I worry that any answer they give will anger some sub-segment of their users.
E.g. Why spend all the money for a XGT upgrade if you can get substantially the same thing in LXT? Why buy LXT if it’s going to be phased out for XGT?
If I were to take a guess, I’d presume they LXT will continue being supported for several more years and new tools will come out for awhile too. But XGT is the future. That’s where all the new tech will be, latest innovations, most power. I expect Makita may worry about saying that when XGT is just taking off and they don’t have the myriad of tool options available to LXT users yet. No doubt they want LXT users to continue buying LXT tools, but also to buy new XGT stuff too.
x lu
You’re concerns are well placed and i find it hard to believe you weren’t polite. The problem is with the brand or brand in US. It is a dead brand walking. Kinda of like the guy who hangs around outside the girls locker room praying he can score a date. Never gonna happen. Not enough room in the marketplace for Milwaukee, Dewalt, Ryobi perhaps Craftsman at mass market and the other true specialty solutions (eg Festool, Dremmel, etc). Others like Makita will eat table scraps-that is the retailers keep you on life support to maintain leverage against the vendors that actually matter. Everything can change if you create a truly unique labor saving solution, battery innovation or one of the key vendors has a falling out with HD, Lowes etc. Unlikely for Mikata as there best days are likely behind them.
Aaron
interoperability between different lines in the same brand is lacking across the board.
Some time ago I had lots of ryobi 18v tools and was considering their 40v lawn tools. Turns out there is no reason to stick to the brand because none of it works together anyway. I went kobalt for my 40v.
Dewalt and Milwaukee have nods to the idea that you would use both by having multivoltage chargers. When I was using mostly m12 tools it didn’t seem like too much of a stretch to get an m18 vac because the charger could do both batteries.
So if an LXT user needs some beefier tools then maaayyyybe they feel like the charging adapter is enough to keep them in the line… but far more likely they end up shopping all the options. Maybe they end up with flexvolt?
Stuart
With Ryobi, their 40V battery is a completely different form factor than their 18V, and with a lot more cells.
Here, if you take off the labels, a Makita 18V drill is the same size as their 40V Max drill.
For tools where you have an 18V X2 and a 40V Max, the XGT will be smaller due to the battery interface, but less energy capacity given battery watt-hours.
If you have a Venn diagram between 18V and 40V Max, how much overlap will there be?
Makita showed charts in the presentation and won’t respond to my requests for permission to share them, where they show XGT being the system that takes Makita cordless power tools to competitively heavy duty levels. But then there are all these signals and claims about XGT being a one battery platform that will also suit everyday users. All of these messages conflict with each other in a way that needs to be resolved.
With Ryobi 18V vs 40V or Craftsman 20V vs 60V, Dewalt 20V vs FlexVolt, Milwaukee M18 vs M18 Fuel and High Output, there is a logical and clear separation and relationship between power, features, and capabilities.
For the LXT user that wants beefier tools, there are going to be so many different brands to consider – I don’t think a charger adapter is going to be enough to keep users loyal to the brand.
Rob
Dude, you’re really hung up on the anti-kickback feature. It’s the missing electronic clutch that made me sad-face. Out of curiosity,
what products did you find to have an in-precise electronic clutch? Fein and Metabo I felt it kicked in slow. Festool and Bosch I’ve found to be super precise and reliable.
Makita has been the only company (afaik) to have everything on one 18v battery. No 12v or 36v required. No “compatible but performs bad without new 20700…erm…21700 cells”. Their 18v customers are spoiled in this regard. I’m willing to take it easy on them by viewing XGT as an ancillary until further notice.
They plan to ditch gas motors and they’re meanwhile very serious about OPE. Those “80”v tools will win many hearts and minds. They have interest in concrete. They’re ready to go on framing (minus the nailers…buuuut…air is still king atm). They mayyyy get more into finish carpentry. In all cases, you may as well throw in some basic drills/impacts. As stands, XGT has every power tool I was expected to have when i was a laborer. It’s a solid start.
Stuart
The anti-kickback tech is one of few indicators right now as to the direction the line can go. I can only work with the little I have to go on.
My biggest frustration with electronic clutches is with very small fasteners, where they don’t seem to be as repeatable as mechanical clutches, at least in soft joint applications such as in wood.
No brand is without its downsides. Sure, you have 18V and 18V X2 tools, but battery management can be a hassle. Runtime is also limited because they don’t have those higher capacity options. XGT was introduced because 18V LXT has too many limitations they just couldn’t get around.
Adam
I think if the XGT tools do well, makita wil discontinue the 18 LXT tools eventually, or the 18 volt will just be for smaller tools , drills impact drivers multi tools that kind of thing, but not circular saws, that will be the XGT 40 volt.
Brody
They’re going to make 40v max their new “pro”-pro line of tools.
If you want specific killer feature, it’s only going to be on the 40v line. It’s going to cost more, but that’s what they expect. It’s going to be their, versatile, yet roughly equivalent to 18v lineup. They’re limited in their downward ability, not being able to have a battery smaller than the 10 cell 18650, but they see the upside to be worth in exchange. The tools are going to be severely focused on runtime, and power.
In the lower left you can see a 4th battery that hasn’t been announced yet, it seems larger than the 5.0AH that’s currently released, so probably going to be a 20 cell 21700, coming out to be 8.0AH.
https://images.makita.co.nz/_images/2021040101/home/carousel/2021/XGT-slider-1632×544.jpg
They’re in all likely-hood going to use this lineup exclusively for their “stationary yet battery powered” tools as well. Table saws, bench top grinder, drill press, bench router.
They’re never going to produce an 21700 battery for LXT due to form factor, but they’re going to use that to “upsell” users into the XGT line. At most in the future we could see a 9.0AH 3 row, 18650 18v battery but I doubt we ever will as it would have probably already been out by now.
This lineup is to be the LXT that LXT can never grow to be due to historical design flaws, 18v limit (not being able to realistically serialize higher than 18v x2 setups), and overall capacity. XGT needs mirrored tools like drills, impact, circular saws to get people into the system, or else it would die off just like their old 36v attempts.
But the core of this lineup is to give them the flexibility of having handheld tools like an impact driver, but also huge tools like those in the equivalent MX lineup use the same battery. MX is going to be limited to those who want that specific MX tool, it’s too expensive for homeowners, or even small contractors, and the batteries are limited to larger tools. 40v max has the ability to be just like it, but also be able to smack onto an impact, or circular saw if needed. Therefor making it cheaper for the consumer to get into the lineup, and make “stepping up” into more powerful tools cheaper since, hey you already own 2 4.0 AH batteries, just buy the tool only (whatever) and you’ve saved 200-400$ vs the competitor.
P.S if you ever want to make your head boggle, look at their Japan catalog.
https://ecatalog.makita.co.jp/view/administrator/284/
They have 7.2, 10.8 (in two different form factors), 14.4, 18, 36 (original), and 40v max tools and accessories listed. They also have an exclusive to Japan 18v lineup specifically for lower end and homeowner grade tools (essentially their own Ryobi).
BF
This is the most sensible answer, and when you consider that Makita will repeat their X2 game plan on XGT it makes even more sense.
I truly don’t understand all the hand wringing and ink that has been spilled over this battery platform.
Stuart
Because I’m sick of saying “I don’t know and they won’t clear things up” when readers email me with XGT questions I can’t answer.
it’s_jake
Forgive my lack of electronic/electric understanding but don’t systems run more efficiently at higher voltage? e.g. higher voltage at lower amperage gives the same amount of watts but somehow operates in a way that uses less watt hours/loses less to inefficiency?
if that is the case, there’s no reason you can’t keep 18v level tools running on 18v tool sized batteries but keep the platform open for something that kicks a lot harder.
either way i’m on lxt and certainly won’t be making the leap as a homeowner. i just like looking at tools 🙂
Stuart
In theory, yes. In practice, barely. Milwaukee, for instance, has made some technological advancements that lets them draw greater current output from their higher capacity batteries built with 21700-sized Li-ion cells.
The problem is, Makita cannot or will not develop a higher capacity next-gen battery for their 18V system. They hit a hard ceiling and cannot break through it. They cannot squeeze any more power out of their 18V system, even with 18V X2 (36V) options. The solution was to come out with an entirely new system designed with current and future potential in mind. They *could* have come with a replacement 18V or 20V Max system, but everyone will probably agree that 40V Max makes better sense from a marketing standpoint and to avoid confusion. Higher voltage does allow for less complex tool designs and theoretical efficiency gains since less energy is lost.
its_jake
Right. I don’t think i’m doing a good job of not talking in circles here, but- a 40v tool that functions like a whopper of an 18v but being able to put that same battery in a proper rotary hammer or one battery circ saw makes sense to me. similar form factor including battery size (similar to a 3-5ah anyway), take advantage of higher efficiency, etc.
it’s not “backwards compatible” but a 40v tool doesn’t *need* to be bigger than an 18v right? Just don’t use it all, and have that same battery compatible with a single battery circular saw that works well, whatever other heavy draw applications.
hoping they don’t abandon the lxt/18v stuff but i get it if there’s not much more to be done- current stuff works really really well.
Pablo
I’m wondering when and if they’re going to upgrade their track saw to their new battery system. I’ve been wanting to get one but rather wait if there will be a new one using the XGT.
And when will they put it back on sale? They use to offer once a year a deal with 2 additional batteries and a track
Stuart
I’ve been wondering about that too.
The X2 track saw is great, but the two batteries can be a nuisance to deal with. A single battery solution would be convenient, but then runtime is going to be compromised unless you go with one of their new higher capacity batteries. Given XGT’s very high pricing right now, with side by side options a lot of users might go with 18V X2 instead, especially with the occasional promo deals like the one you mentioned, or competing Bosch and Dewalt single-battery options.
Adam
An XGT 40 plunge saw would be good, they will bring one out, I don’t know when, I think it will be soon I would wait.
Handymike
Wouldn’t the 40v battery be bigger and heavier than 18v? I don’t want a heavier or bigger battery on my drill or driver. Thought that was the whole idea of making these drills and drivers lighter and more compact.
I recently bought the makita blower and trimmer kit. I bought it over the x2 or ryobi 40v due to the weight. My wife did not like using the gas blower( heavy), hence my decision.
To be honest they are great tools too, very happy with them.
Years ago it seemed they went with bigger is better then down sized to more powerful, compact and lighter. Now they are going back the other way. I don’t get it!
Stuart
Yes, and no.
With the smallest sized 40V Max XGT batteries, they are essentially the same as 18V batteries but in a slightly different configuration.
For an 18V 5.0Ah battery, you have 10 Li-ion cells with 2.5Ah charge capacity configured in 5 pairs. If it helps to visualize it, you have 10 cells arranged in a double line. For a 40V Max battery, they’re simply configured in a single line.
2 battery cells in parallel, each with 2.5Ah charge capacity, can be thought of as a single 5.0Ah battery. Stack 5 pairs of those cells and you have 3.6V per cell x (2 x 2.5Ah) x 5 = 90 watt-hours. Stack 10 cells back to back and you have 3.6V per cell x 2.5Ah x 10 = 90 watt-hours. Same size, same weight, same energy capacity.
Think of it like two 6-inch hot dogs vs. a foot-long hot dog.
Franco Calcagni
There are new tools coming out all the time on all the brands/platforms, so in this day and age to have a system like the LXT, that has more tools available, or maybe the 2nd most tools…then come out with a new system, XGT, with no compatibility with LXT, really makes no sense!?!? Especially when Dewalt has done it as well as Metabo HPT, what Makita has done is just beyond comprehension.
If the long term plan, even if they do not admit to it now, is to have XGT completely replace LXT, that is a heck of a lot of tools to replace. It is also killing off an incredibly large user base of LXT people. Where do these people go? Yes they can go to XGT but they could also go to M18, Dewalt 20v/60v or any other brand because they are essentially buying into a new system.
To me, first off, a very large percentage of 18/20v tools are more than capable of doing most jobs for the diyer and the pro. For the other tools that more is needed, the way of the future is cross compatible models like Dewalt has with there Flexvolt and HPT has with their 18 and 36 volt, and also Makita’s 18vx2 system. Of the Makita LXT 18×2 tools I have a lawnmower, tracksaw, rotary hammer, circ saw, and HEP dust extractor. I am incredibly satisfied with all of these tools and see no reason to look elsewhere for more powerful tools.
So the whole XGT system is just a baffling situation. At least Milwaukee’s MX system is so different and far ahead than what M18 offers, it makes sense and devoted M12 and M18 users will not feel being stabbed in the back by this new system. XGT is essentially LXT 18×2 without needing 2 batteries.
Not enough of a difference to justify the whole new platform WITHOUT backward compatibility.
MM
I couldn’t agree more. If the goal is to eventually discontinue LXT and move customers to XGT a fantastic way to do it is to make the batteries backwards-compatible just like others (Dewalt, HPT) have done. Customers who already have LXT tools could slowly transition into XGT, using the new XGT batteries with their old tools. As you said, in this situation LXT customers are faced with jumping into a whole new system, and customers could just as easily switch to a competitor as they could switch to XGT.
Lava
All this talk of discontinuing LXT seems naive to me. XGT will never deliver what I want LXT for. Namely a compact 2ah battery paired with a light tool with more power and use time than a 12v tool, and access to 18v tools that just don’t exist in 12v class.
I haven’t been watching DeWalt — did they discontinue their 20v Max tools after they established their 60v tools?
Stuart
Dewalt 20V Max and FlexVolt batteries can both connect to the same charger. Flexvolt batteries can be used in 20V Max tools. Two synergistic systems with conveniences for users who want to buy into both.
I don’t think Makita will discontinue LXT, but it seems all the good stuff is going to XGT. How do you have two “one battery platform” systems when neither of them can match up to competitors?
Think of it this way. Dewalt 20V Max is a tool belt. FlexVolt are suspenders. You can use them independently but they also work great together.
Makita 18V is a tool belt without any suspenders option, and XGT are suspenders without any tool belt option right now. You absolutely cannot use them together (aside for a charging adapter add-on), and Makita is saying they’re both all users will ever need. A user wants suspenders and a belt, how can Makita be the solution for them?
CountyCork
Not sure what there is not to understand about makitas coexisting 2 platforms. If you want one system to fully compete with dewalt 60v and milwaukee mx fuel then makita in my eyes has some nice advantages. Milwaukee has 2 platforms as well and their batteries aren’t compatible. I think makita has the right strategy considering what the xlt limitations are. There is so many good choices these days and makita has always been a leader in inovation. My guess is they asked their engineers what can we do to keep up and even surpass what’s being offered currently and will provide a solution way into the future they came back with 40v. In any case I’m sure makita carefully came to what they thought was best for them and their customers.
Stuart
That’s the thing – you’re guessing.
I need to dig deeper before I am allowed to guess. At least several times, I received emails or calls about why I wasn’t fair in my “reviews” when I expressed my opinions and didn’t ask for elaboration.
I don’t ask questions and nobody’s happy.
I ask questions and nobody’s happy.
I can tell you exactly what just about every other power tool brand’s “how,” “why,” and how they might suit different users’ needs. Bosch, Dewalt, Flex, Kobalt, Metabo, Metabo HPT, Milwaukee, Ingersoll Rand, Ridgid, Ryobi, Skil, Craftsman, Harbor Freight Hercules, Hart.
You want Makita-brand higher power tools? Go XGT. Existing 18V offerings XGT doesn’t offer? LXT. This part is clear.
But here’s the thing – so very many emails with “I want to buy x, y, z cordless power tools, and might need j, k, l in the future, is this brand good for me?” types of questions.
There’s a giant grey area, where either I’m not seeing things as clearly as I should, Makita has no clear plan on how the different lines will differentiate against each other where overlap is planned or possible, or the plans will disappoint or frustrate users.
If the problem is with my clarity, I need help seeing the picture. Otherwise the only answer I have to “so will buying into Makita LXT/XGT be future-proof for me within one system?” is “nope, it’s completely unclear what Makita is planning.”
As a user, I would NOT buy into Makita’s 18V LXT system right now if all the new advanced tech (such as with the drill) is reserved for the higher-priced XGT system, and I would NOT buy into their 40V Max XGT system right now if it’s unclear which smaller handheld tools will be coming to the system. Neither system serves my or most users’ needs if they want to stick to a single platform.
Apparently it’s too much to ask for some understanding on how the systems will relate to each other.
So many users ask questions about buying into new cordless systems because it’s a huge investment and if they choose wrong – which does happy – they either work around frustrations or face having to change over at huge expense.
Saying “I don’t know, Makita won’t explain their positioning” isn’t a good option.
I also don’t know why so many are trying to compare XGT with Milwaukee MX Fuel, there’s simply no comparison. Where are the XGT offerings that match MX Fuel capabilities?
M18: Mountain bike
MX Fuel: Dirt bike
Of course the parts aren’t going to fit.
Makita 18V: 10-cell battery in 18V form factor
Makita 40V Max: 10-cell battery in 18V form factor
Why isn’t there at least one-way backwards compatibility similar to Dewalt FlexVolt or Metabo HPT MultiVolt??
Under the hood, a “40V Max” is mostly the same as an 18V battery – 10 cells, battery management system, some electronic connections. 80V Max configurations are going to be largely the same as 18V X2 but with a little more power delivery since they don’t hit the same current ceilings.
Makita has not been a leader in innovation. Yes, they have their fair share of innovations, but it’s increasingly rare for them to be the brand pushing the industry forward; they’ve largely been playing catch-up.
There’s a lot of potential here, but the user in me – as well as someone that fields countless recommendations emails each year, I’d like to understand what the story is, beyond the marketing fluff that doesn’t actually tell us anything.
A user wants a rotary hammer, high powered cordless drill, compact impact driver, circular saw, reciprocating saw, portable vacuum, and a cordless jig saw.
Maybe they like the drill features that are coming to XGT. But will there ever be 40V Max jigsaw?
Skip the jigsaw and special features. When should a user pick LXT, and when should the pick XGT? There’s a grey area. If I don’t understand the positioning, my default then sets to “neither,” but that doesn’t help anyone.
Right now, there are barely any 40V Max XGT tools – relatively. I cannot see the line between where the two systems will be positioned side by side. When does a user cross over between 18V and 40V Max? 18V X2 and 80V Max (72V in 2x18V form factor)?
I could simply say “I don’t know, forget about Makita, a different brand might suit you better,” but that doesn’t exactly help anyone.
Hans
If XGT is really planned to replace LXT anything they would tell you would amount to either outright lies or the kind of fluff that’s making you itch. They probably figure they’ll be slowly moving away from LXT for 5-10 years. For the next three years you’ll get a brushless coffee maker at christmas or some other BS so they can claim they’re still expanding. I’m happy with conjecture as a proper explanation. They will not be explaining this to you.
Andrew Titmus
I agree that Makita are unlikely to list the limitations of the LXT platform but I suspect it is down to the legacy tool/battery interface that would make it very hard to develop on.
I understand that the Makita LXT batteries are protected internally (MOSFET relay) and there is no digital communication with the tool. They could create higher output batteries but it would fragment the operation for a user. An original style battery on a higher output tool might trip or damage the internal protection and result in frustrated users etc.
The XGT battery presumably relies on internal balancing and communicates digitally so presumably the tool can be aware of the output potential of the battery. With the better spacing on 2x tools to allow for larger cells, replacing the platform makes sense but some greater clarity would be appreciated from them. Nonetheless this is a commercial entity and the operational risk in people abandoning the LXT platform is likely to be unacceptable.
I have the XGT combi drill and am very impressed but I upgraded from 24v Bosch NiCd so didn’t have anything to lose. It is a gamble though as to when/if they release other tools such as an oscillating multi-cutter andother, currently LXT tools, to the platform.
I suspect that LXT’s future, if it remains in the longer-term, will be with the lower demand/DIY tools until 10.8v performance surpasses it and makes it obsolete.
Stuart
Every other brand has been open about what necessitated their platform changes – Dewalt and Porter Cable come to mind. Makita very thoroughly described in international press materials why they switched from the 12V Max stem-style battery platform to a 12V Max slide-style battery.
Makita’s essentially saying each system will be a “one battery platform solution,” but this isn’t what their actions are showing, and it doesn’t seem to be a sustainable or feasible strategy.
As a user, I think it’s unwise to invest in either platform right now until they make the direction of each system known. I was hoping for assurances otherwise, but hiding behind a wall of science sends an even worse message.
LXT won’t be abandoned, but it’s already not getting features that are coming to XGT handheld tools.
They also have $99 drill and impact driver kits every year, and budget combo kits for $299 around the holiday shopping season seemingly aimed at DIYers. Considering the XGT prices right now, maybe you’re right about Makita 18V being the “lower demand/DIY tools.”
Some clarity would sure be nice, but I won’t hold my breath.
Ron
I’ve had the XGT stuff sitting here for almost a week now and haven’t used it, yet. 🤣
What I can tell you is that while some of the products are near identical to their LXT siblings, the grinders, larger drill and impact driver are their own thing. Makita won’t answer you, but I can shed some light on the XPH14 not having the features of the XGT version… there is no XGT version.
We assumed that the XPH14 is the LXT version of the XGT drill and we were wrong. The XPH14 and GPH01 are entirely different. The immediately noticeable difference is in the width. The XGT drill is much narrower. The 5” grinder is also much more slender than my 5” LXT grinder.
In the US they are forcing AWS on us (which means our SDS Plus drill is $150 more than what anyone I know outside of the US paid for their’s).
I’m not sure what the upcharge is for since you still have to pay $70 for a chip…per tool. The little Festool Bluetooth remote (and you can buy plenty of third party remote starts) works just fine for me…
The build, features, and trigger throws seem to be a little more premium over the LXT line. Not up there with the German/Swiss made $$$ stuff, but , again, slightly nicer than the 18v line.
I’m not sure if the fans are bigger, but I presume they are. The vent openings are bigger and everything is louder.
Stuart
Thanks!
Interesting observations!