Irwin sent me a Hanson tap and die set a couple of years ago, and it is a fantastic piece of kit.
This is one of those tool samples that I do not expect to part with it – it’s part of my semi-forever tool kit.
Every part of the Irwin tap and die set is well-made – the handles, taps, dies, drill bits, and all of the accessories.
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But, I would never use this set to cut new threads unless I was in a pinch. It’s part of my mindset, that a tap and die set like this is more for repair work than fabrication.
To start off, the cutting tools are made from high carbon steel, whereas I typically prefer to buy high speed steel thread cutting taps (I mainly cut internal threads).
These tools will hold up to use – which is why Hanson has had such a strong reputation over the years – but it’s not the best approach for anyone looking to get into metalworking.
If you’re starting to design your own parts out of metal, this is not the best way to get started with thread cutting tools.
Let’s say I strip a hole in a piece of machinery. I might use the tools in this kit to drill out the hole and tap a new one. Or maybe I would move the hole if needed. If handle stud or similar became gummed up or the threads got a little mangled, maybe I’d use one of these dies to clean it up.
A long time ago I bought an inexpensive Kobalt set. I opened it for my first project or two, saw it didn’t have what I needed, and it say untouched since then. I gave it away a few years ago.
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My most-used taps are the ones I purchased separately, as needed at first. I started with just plug taps and eventually also purchased 3pc sets, with taper, plug, and bottoming taps. I bought just the wire gauge and letter drill bits I needed, and eventually purchased a large drill bit set.
Gearwrench makes a budget-friendly tap and die set – this one is under $104 at Amazon right now.
I purchased the same tap and die handle set years ago – and they’re good, but I haven’t touched them in a while. A ratcheting handle isn’t a good way to start out with.
Like the Irwin Hanson set, the Gearwrench set comes with a lot of stuff that you might need, but not in the same way as you might think.
In another post, James commented:
I’m just getting into more metalworking, including thread tapping
I have chatted with a lot of readers over the years, and quite a few ask about the size of the kits they should buy.
I REALLY don’t think tap and die sets are as beginner-friendly as they seem, at least not for custom fabrication or beginner metalworking types of tasks and projects.
Here are of my thoughts and recommendations for beginners, which come from my answers to the most common questions I’ve seen over the years:
Don’t cheap out on taps. Yes, you can buy a no-name 60pc set for $30 and similar at online marketplaces, but how good will any of those tools be? Breaking a tap in a part can ruin your day. If the tap isn’t precise, it can ruin your part. It’s not worth it.
Buy as you go at first. If whatever parts you’re designing only require a single tap size, you’ll get more out of buying a good tap handle and just the tap or two that you need than by sinking money into a set.
Smaller tap and die sets rarely come with drill bits, and so you’ll need to buy that anyway. Will you also need a bottoming tap? That’s more that you have to spend beyond the set.
Buying as you go, or maybe a few sizes at a time, will usually help you budget for higher quality tools.
Pay attention to materials and coatings. I buy uncoated high speed steel taps, which are a step up from high carbon steel taps.
It sounder strange, but I pay attention to coatings only so that I can avoid them.
High carbon taps are great for a repair assortment, where you might use a tap a couple of times as-needed. But if you’re working on a project that requires more than a handful of taps, high speed steel stays sharper for longer and tend to be stronger, helping to reduce the chance of breakage.
Titanium nitride can provide benefits when applied to quality tooling, but do you need it?
Different coatings and surface finishes provide different benefits – and potential disadvantages – when working with various materials.
Because of this, I tend to simply stick with uncoated high speed steel with a bright finish.
A lot of coatings are great for working with steel, and there are special coatings for working with aluminum.
Just plain HSS has worked out well for me so far. It won’t deliver the same life as coated tooling, but I don’t have to worry about buying and using different cutting tools for different materials.
The same goes for drill bits.
You’ll see a lot of websites advertising that black oxide-finished drill bits are more durable than standard HSS drill bits. That is true, but it depends on the material. A lot of general advise is for working with steel. I still prefer uncoated HSS for use on aluminum.
Individual drill bits in smaller sizes are inexpensive enough that you can try things for yourself, but I’d still recommend saving money and going with uncoated HSS taps at first. I’d avoid high carbon steel unless it’s for a non-critical project and you don’t have plans for more.
High carbon steel is sold at a good price point for taps you might never use, which is why it’s found in a lot of high part count repair sets.
When in doubt, most metal tooling suppliers will have some good reference information on their websites and in their product catalogs.
Avoid home center brands. For the most part, the metalworking cutting tools you can buy at home centers and hardware stores are good. But what you can find at industrial suppliers are better.
If you’re just starting out, browse through MSC’s sales flyers, at the least to get a sense for what’s out there. The discounts vary, with not much variety on general purpose taps right now.
McMaster Carr is very beginner-friendly, in how they have highly effective search filtering and reasonable prices.
I was looking for a particular tap on a different supplier’s website today, and I had to sort through less relevant results and then dig into a manufacturer’s catalog to sort out differences. McMaster can help you narrow down the selection fast, and they provide a good amount of hand-holding as to how to choose based on different criteria.
3pc sets are a good way to get started if you don’t otherwise know what you need. Here’s a filtered list of results at McMaster. Play around with the search configuration as you please.
For instance, if you know you’ll be cutting a lot of 1/4″-20 holes, the 3pc set is under $18 and comes with taper, plug, and bottoming taps.
Taper taps can make it easier to start taps, plug taps are good for general purpose use, and bottom taps allow you to cut threads closer to the bottom of a hole.
Plug taps are a good do-it-all, and are what you usually get in repair and starter sets. Taper taps are good to have, and bottoming taps are more of a “you’ll know when you’ll need it” style.
Don’t forget the drill bits. Sometimes I overthink the drill bit selection, but not usually. For instance, 36 gauge is a typical go-to for drilling a hole for a 6-32 tap, 29 for 8-32, 21 for 10-32, 7 for 1/4″-20, and F for 5/16″-18. I rarely stray from this. Stick with online tap and drill bit charts – here’s a good one from the Little Machine Shop – and stray when you have reason to.
I started off with just a couple of drill bit sizes – as needed.
If mating two parts together, I am more diligent about clearance hole sizing when working with thicker materials. The same F size drill bit that creates a hole for tapping to 5/16″-18 in aluminum can be used for a close fit for 1/4″ diameter hardware.
I didn’t worry much about close vs free fit drill sizes until I bought my first wire and letter gauge drill bit index. If you’re not sure what this means, all you need to know is that there are different classifications of drill bits beyond the fractional ones you’ll find at the home center.
To summarize things, there are fractional drill bits, such as 1/4″, numbered drill bits, such as 7 (0.201″), and letter drill bits, such as F (0.257″). Here’s the Wikipedia entry.
In addition to fractional drill bit sets, you’ll find 1-60 wire gauge size drill bits, and A to Z letter drill bit sets. A complete set might have 115 pieces give or take.
Good drill bit sets are pricey – if you’re just starting out buy what you need at the same place and time as your taps. Avoid the desire to buy a huge set of no-name drill bits.
An example, this Norseman 115pc drill bit set (available at Amazon) comes with (29) fractional drill bits 1/6″ to 1/2″, (60) wire gauge drill bits from #1 to #60, and (26) letter drill bits from A to Z.
Again, I typically stick with bright-finish uncoated HSS drill bits in jobber length. As for drill bit lengths, you’ll probably find out if and when a shorter or longer drill bit is needed.
Advice for Your First Hand-Cut Taps: A good rule of thumb is that you turn the tap half a rotation forward and then a quarter turn back. This usually breaks the chips, which helps to prevent jamming. If a tap breaks off in your part, you’re in for a terrible time.
Use cutting or tapping fluid appropriate for the material being worked on, take your time, let the tool do the work, and don’t force or rush things, especially when working with smaller taps or in harder and less forgiving materials.
Tapping threads with a half step forward and quarter step back process can get tedious, especially if you have a lot to do, but it’s a rule of thumb for good reason.
Once you get a feel for the process, you can consider more advanced (and pricier) styles of taps that can handle faster and even machine speeds.
It’s okay to practice on scrap material – isn’t that what small cut-off are for?
Reader Opinions and Advice?
What would you share with someone just getting started in metalworking or thread cutting with hand taps?
I’m stubbornly of the opinion that sets are great for repair work (and maybe occasional very light use), and not at all for new fabrications. Do you agree with this? Or do you know of a beginner friendly starter set?
Rx9
Sound advice. In taps/dies, drill bits, screwdriver bits, sockets and more, I feel there is a temptation to buy large sets for the sake of completeness, despite the fact that in reality, there are often only a few specific sizes in heavy use.
Stuart
With many types of tools, you don’t know what you need until you need it.
It’s even worse for beginners, because – in any field – they often also don’t know what they need for what they want to do, and those needs can evolve quickly.
When I bought my first wrench set – a Craftsman 9pc set or similar, I was really only looking to buy 2 sizes, but the 9pc set was more cost-effective even if I used at most 1 or 2 other sizes. If I bought 2 pieces, then 1 or 2, and then 1 more, I’d have spent more money for less than a full set.
Taps are more specialized, but a lot of people – myself included – mistakenly try to extend the “it’s better/more cost-economical to start with a set” mentality.
If you buy a wrench set or socket set, a size you don’t use today could very well be your most-used size tomorrow. The same isn’t really true about taps.
With taps, you don’t lose out if you buy them individually (ignoring shipping costs). Aside from 3pc same-size sets, taps are sold individually (or in bulk quantities).
All that to say is that the existence of tap and die sets, and the inherent tendency to buy tools in sets, can steer beginners in the wrong direction.
Maybe that’ll be an interesting discussion for another time – which times of tools are better to be deliberate about purchasing.
Saulac
What situation absolutely requires taps and dies?
I my advise would be save taps and dies for repair only, because you have no choice. So you should get a decent set with many size as possible. But if you are fabricating something new, you are in control and should go with fasteners instead.
If you are insist on using taps and dies, at least focus on only a few sizes and stick with them. Creating threads are not cheap.
Stuart
Some tasks require taps, others dies. They can be used together, but usually are not.
Let’s say you need to build a jig that involves two 3/4″ thick aluminum blocks being fastened together in an L-shape configuration.
Drilling and tapping one block and drilling through-holes in the other allows them to be bolted together using fasteners.
Fabricating the L-shape from two pieces of metal will be considerably less expensive than machining it from a single large block.
“Going with fasteners” isn’t an option at all. In theory you can make it an option, with recessed or insert nuts, but it would involve much greater complexity, effort, and cost.
Or, as in the case I was discussing in the other post, I wish to add threaded stud casters to aluminum extrusion that has a hole at the middle. Enlarging the hole and tapping it allows for this. There’s no other way to “go with fasteners instead.”
Dies let you cut male threads into cylindrical parts. Let’s say you have a router table and want a small cylindrical post as a freehand support pin. You can take cylindrical stock and add threads to the bottom so it can be securely attached to the router table insert plate.
Basically, taps create female threads that can accept fasteners and threaded rods or studs, and dies create make threads for inserting into threaded holes.
In a set, you often get dies more suited to repair work than thread-cutting, but I wanted to focus on taps here.
Dies are many times used to create parts to engage with threaded holes, and taps are mostly (or entirely in my experiences) used to create threaded holes into which with fasteners and other hardware can be inserted.
Many times it’s far more economical to create threads than to find a workaround.
Martin
Tips for beginners:
If you break just the tip off an otherwise good tap, grind is flat (without ruining the temper) and use it as a bottoming tap.
Do your best, cheating however you can, to keep your tap as straight in the hole as possible. If the piece you are tapping is small enough to get under the drill press you can use that to help keep it straight. If you have a project where you are going to do a lot of hand tapping consider a hand tapping machine like this:
https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-hand-tapping-machine/g8748
Using a long handle on your tap -can- help you eyeball keeping it straight but resist the urge to use the leverage to put more pressure on the tap than it will take.
When you get some holes under your belt you’ll start to get a feel for how much stress is too much and know when to back off. Until then the 1/2 turn forward 1/4 turn back is good practice.
You will eventually break some taps, you might as well get that over with in some scrap with cheapo taps and practice some broken tap removal before you have to do it in something you care about. There are a lot of tricks for that depending on what tools you have at your disposal. I’ve never found a tap removal tool that consistently worked any better than the field expedient methods but maybe Stuart has given more of those a try than I have.
Good luck.
Stuart
I have a similar hand tapper that I purchased a few years back, and it’s not as useful as I’d hoped. It seems better for high repetition, or for better alignment without using a taper tap. I tend to go back to it when tapping smaller diameter holes when there’s greater risk of breakage.
Drilling guides – such as these https://14cyiuhvcgv.com/big-gator-tools-drill-guides/%3C/a%3E – can help with free-handing straight holes when jigs or a drill press aren’t available.
I feel that it’s best to spend a little effort to avoid breaking a tap in a hole than a whole lot of effort trying to get it out. Luckily I haven’t had to buy any tap extractors yet. If you break a hand tap, a tap extractor will engage the flutes for removal. I’ve seen removal sets, but they’re pricey and not comprehensive.
I figure that if I break a tap, my best chance of removing it is to order the same size removal tool from McMaster and get it the next business day. If I can’t remove a tap otherwise and it’s not worth the $25 and up ($18 per extractor per shipping), for an extractor of the same size and flute-engaging finger count, I’ll remake the part.
Breaking a tap in a part and breaking a ball hex end in a socket head cap screw are two headaches I’m trying my best to avoid ever experiencing.
Paul J. Ste. Marie
The tap removal tools are generally useless, at least in the smaller sizes. What does work is a carbide drill or a EDM tap burner.
Boris Ioffe
Well I was a beginner few years ago. I don’t consider myself a pro by any means. Here is my take:
a) Don’t buy as you go (waste of money)
b) Buy yourself a nice used Greenfield beginners set to 1/4 size (Under $30 shipped on eBay if you are lucky). It could be about 80 years old but I the probability is it will be still better than this contemporary made el-chipo product. Made in USA out of best HSS available at that time.
c) Once you realize that there is more to tapping that size of thread, you can expand your collection. Interestingly enough my collection was slowly growing even without necessary buying into it (you find them or people just give them to you)
d) Get yourself a largest master set you can afford and fit into your toolbox
e) Get into CNC machining and realize that you probably have to start from a beginning. Buy as you need, get the best ones specifically for the project in mind.
f) Get a rigid tapping capabilities in your CNC and cut your threads with a single point cutting tool.
At that point your journey is complete and you have about 1000 taps laying about 🙂
Stuart
Such as?
Cleveland and Greenfield 17pc sets covering 4-40 to 1/4-20 cost over $300, and are the only ones I’ve seen with HSS taps (but carbon steel dies). I feel there are lot of better ways for beginners to spend that kind of money.
Most brands’ pricier sets still seem to give you carbon steel tools with more accessories such as thread checkers, rather than better grades of taps or style variation (such as taper and bottoming in addition to plug).
I also haven’t seen sets for spiral point or fluted taps, which is why I consider this to be the rare type of tool where it’s worth it to buy as you go.
NoahG
Honestly, Irwin/Hanson are riding on name reputation and really aren’t good taps at all. I’ve been converting my set over to spiral point taps. I find them much easier to start. My local supply counter carry’s Alfa tools taps made in Bosnia and they are surprisingly nice.
Also, the thing that makes a huge difference for me is a quality tap holding wrench. The cheap Irwin handles always come loose. I picked up a used Starrett from and estate sale and the difference is so great that I’d gladly pay retail price for another one.
Steve
I bought a nice set long ago and use it sparingly – although, when you need it, it’s sure nice to have. I’m sure if I didn’t have a set, I’d have a number of taps and dies lying around, which is fine I suppose, but I prefer orderly. Maybe start out with a small set and upgrade to larger sets as needed. For me, I do a lot of household type of things – carpentry, electrical, plumbing, etc. and the set I have is probably too large, but I don’t have to worry if I have a need. If I had to do it again, I’d get a smaller set…
Wilbur
Taps – Most people do not know how many different types of taps there are, and the popular kits do not include any of the useful but much lesser known ones. I’ve bought taps and dies as I needed them, and over the years accumulated a fairly large – and expensive – collection. One thing I’ve found hard to find now is bottoming taps, used to fully thread blind holes; most taps “commonly available” – read: “in kits” – are tapered thread taps (and tapered thread taps come in different tapers…)
Dies are another issue – round dies that were adjustable for cutting depth used to be common, now almost everything is “generic hex.” Which, for 72-75% threads in “standard” materials and conditions, is probably adequate, but incapable of chasing threads to salvage damaged fasteners, and incapable of threading to other than th egeneric 75% thread depth standard that whomever put the “kit” together decided you need.
You can find different types of taps, and adjustable round dies, but they’re not specialty items and priced accordingly.
Stuart
Individual taps (including bottoming) are widely available in many different styles from industrial suppliers.
Wilbur
I think that’s what I kind of said with ” I’ve bought taps and dies as I needed them..”
I do not buy sets of taps or dies, I buy the specific tap or die, in the particular type I need, when I need one. Sometimes a small specific-use set – same diameter and thread pitch, but multiple styles (1-3 different tapers, flat, and bottoming) – may be available in taps but it’s rare. Adjustable round dies are rarely available in sets, but it does happen occasionally.
It’s an expensive way to build a tap & die “set” but the best way I’ve found to get exactly what’s needed and in high quality.
Stuart
I was more commenting about how you said “One thing I’ve found hard to find now is bottoming taps.”
Bottoming taps aren’t hard to find at all. I don’t think I’ve ever seen them in sets.
My point is that buying piecemeal isn’t a more expensive way to build a tap and die set because – as we agree – you’re generally getting a higher grade of tools and sizes or styles better suited to your needs. It’s not the same as say wrenches, where you can usually buy the same tools but at higher individual pricing.
M
Don’t forget to clean the hole and use cutting oil/fluid too. Takes me a longer to cut the threads than most but I make sure to break and clear chips frequently. I’ve only broken taps when rushing or tapping tiny little holes. Never is fun.
Matt C.
I have the Sears Craftsman set that I bought a few years ago that has served me well. I opted to buy the Gearwrench ratcheting handles and highly recommend. I consider this a must have. If I knew about them sooner, l would’ve just bought the Gearwrench tap and die set since it already comes with the ratcheting handles. Also I bought a tap guide by Gator? My first tap went in crooked so I learned my lesson to always use a tap guide. I was tapping into the front spindle of my old Mustang for a disc brake upgrade. Not the place where you want a crooked tap.
Jasper
I have been happy with Chicago Latrobe Drill & Tap set if you do not need bottoming taps. Decent value, includes drills. Been using them for 3-4 years but mostly in aluminum and plastic. Not broken any yet. https://www.amazon.com/Chicago-Latrobe-High-Speed-Uncoated-18-piece/dp/B001VY0MDO
MM
I feel this is generally great advice. Taps are probably the best example of a tool where cheaping out can get you into real trouble. Substandard taps are difficult to use and more easily broken, and few broken tools cause as much cussing as a broken tap. I’ll also add that good tap HANDLES are also well worth the investment. A handle that’s wobbly or doesn’t grip the tap securely only makes things harder on you. Special sockets are available for taps as well, these are handy for using your ratchet set or a drill.
Get quality HSS taps.
Use the appropriate lubricant.
I don’t think coatings are worth worrying about from a hobby or DIY perspective but they absolutely do prolong tap life in a production environment.
On the subject of sets, I don’t think I’ve ever seen one that I’d consider super nice. You’ve got the low-end cheapo sets in carbon steel which are never worthwhile, IMO. Mid-grade sets in HSS are available like Cleveland, Greenlee, Osborn, and various no-name industrial brands. These aren’t bad, cost about $300 a set, but they should be thought of as emergency repair tools not production tools. I have never seen the really high quality taps like OSG or Emuge, sold in general purpose sets though they are offered in sets for a given size, for example you might buy a 3-pack that contains a taper, plug, and bottoming tap all in the same size.
James+C
I’ve been reading ToolGuyd almost daily for a very long time. Am I crazy or is yesterday’s post the first time lettered drill bit sizes have been mentioned? I’m sitting here thinking “what the heck are these letters?”
Anyway, if you can’t tell, I’m the one who commented that I’m just getting into metalworking. What I’m doing is a pretty niche use case: building and modifying enthusiast flashlight components. It’s just a hobby that I enjoy and takes my mind off things.
Say I’m making a new flashlight head for a stock manufacturer’s body tube: Take a brass pex end cap. Drill out the cap end for a lens. Do some shaping with a belt sander and a rotary tool with jigs (very poor man’s mill). Lastly, before installing the reflector and electronics, it needs threads that match up with the existing flashlight body.
The best tool for the job would be a mini metal lathe that can cut threads, but that’s well out of my hobby budget. So I’m left with taps. The body threads on my current project are m19x0.75 so I bought that tap. Another light I want to mod uses m24x1.0. I’m out of luck, I think, if the stock light I want to mod uses trapezoidal or square threads.
I’m my case I think buying taps as I need them makes sense. I never know what size I’ll need until the light is in hand (thread specs are never shared by manufacturers). I don’t need the best quality since I’ll likely only use them a few times and I’m working with soft metal (brass or maybe copper).
Stuart
Lettered drill bits – and wire gauge sizes – are a tricky type of tool/accessory/tooling that most people don’t learn about until they need them.
I have mentioned letter drill bits before, but probably less than 5 times.
It’s on my to-do list to rework some older posts, such as this one on silver and deming drill bits – https://14cyiuhvcgv.com/silver-and-deming-drill-bits/%3C/a%3E . That one’s from 13-1/2 years ago.
Even if you don’t do much wiring work, you probably already know what wire cutters and strippers do. Letter gauge drill bits are not something you’ll come across at the home center, and won’t have a place in your tool kit until you need them.
I’ve only seen a couple of DIY flashlight projects and modifications over the years, and would love to see your project once completed!
David
Stuart – I’ll happily cheer on the silver and deming drill bits update. I recently took a blacksmithing class and I’m finding I now have a deeper interest in a broader array of drill bits than I’ve had a use for previously.
While I’m raising my hand for articles – drill bit storage is always a pain, and I’ve eyed both Vevor’s drill bit drawer storage and the classic Huots. I’d love to see coverage on that at some point as my collection of bits and sizes and types grows.
Stuart
Drill bit storage: how many are you storing?
Huot is the most recognizable and imitated brand.
Durham drawers are good. Akro mils has some good multi-purpose plastic and metal benchtop organizers.
I use Durham organizers and Schaller Corp bins in 1″ depth (https://www.schallercorporation.com/).
Keeping track of loose individually sized bits are a hassle, and I tend to keep them in a Durham drawer with Schaller bins. I use a couple of specialty bits but generally pull from an index and replace missing or damaged bits as needed.
Money saved on an organized meant for storing bulk quantities in a machine shop might be better spent on a 115 pc set that comes in an Huot index. Drills needed beyond that can be organized in different ways.
I don’t have a good system yet for things like brad point or plastic drilling bits, but I don’t spend much time looking for them.
For up to maybe 12 sizes, a simple divided plastic organizer box can easily do the trick.
I keep things simple until lost time or costs become a problem.
You *can* get a drill bit drawer storage box like the Vevor or Huot, but if you’re not filling at least half the drawers with multiple bits, they’re not very space-efficient.
You can also build an organizer without too much trouble – here’s one from Sandra/Sawdust Girl:
https://www.youtube.com/@Sawdustgirl
I probably won’t have a post on drill bit storage anytime soon since mine aren’t as well-organized as they could be. I’m not at the point yet where I’m interested in putting new time or cost into better organizing my loose bits.
Dewalt’s ToughCases are a good inexpensive way to keep things portable.
https://14cyiuhvcgv.com/5-reasons-to-buy-this-dewalt-toughcase-parts-organizer/%3C/a%3E%3Cbr /> https://14cyiuhvcgv.com/dewalt-toughcase-organizer-with-milwaukee-screwdriver-bits/%3C/a%3E%3C/p%3E
One thing I have been meaning to try is paint-filling the markings on my drill bits, as it’s getting harder for me to read some of the sizes.
I’ve bought some accessories from Ikea thinking I could use them for drill bits, such as an ice cube tray with long stick-shaped recesses, and a waved kitchen insert tray that looks kind of like Lista’s https://listacabinets.com/products/lista-slotted-grooved-trays but used them for something else.
James+C
I’d be happy to share it. I plan on doing a write-up on budgetlightforum and I’ll give you a heads-up when it’s finished.
Jared
I think my budget approach is a little different than what Stuart suggests – but while it works for me, I think the pitfalls he’s warning about are real. In other words, maybe following my example actually isn’t good advice.
Nevertheless, I bought a big cheap set many many years ago that I still use now. I’ve no idea what kind of steel the pieces are made of. They’re extremely hard, but also brittle. I’ve broken taps and dies over the years, and it can be a real pain. At some point I broke enough of them that I bought a second cheap set just to make sure I had my sizes covered.
However, I’ve also bought better taps and tap sets from Grainger in the sizes I use most often or when I need something specific not covered in either of my big sets. I don’t bother using these to chase existing threads, but I do use them when fabricating.
The first set I bought when I didn’t know better and just wanted to have as many sizes on hand as possible. When I bought the second big set, I did know better but still didn’t want to be caught without a size I might need. I think there’s value in that approach. You need to be cautious with cheap taps though. You get a feel for when you’re approaching danger, but you probably can’t develop that without making a few mistakes. It may not be worth it.
I’ve done pretty much the same thing for drill bits. I have a big index, many many smaller sets and individual bits on top of that for very small or large sizes. My big index isn’t high quality. Nevertheless, I rarely need a bit size I don’t have. When I break or dull my cheap bits, I replace them with better ones – since obviously those are sizes I use.
fred
One of the things that our fabrication shop became locally known for was removing things like broken fasteners and taps from assemblies. We had a man who was quite skilled at this – might start with trying a Walton tap extractor and work up through EDM. This service was not for the cheap – and usually was applied only to things where replacement was impractical or extremely costly.
For reference – here is a listing for a small tap extractor set:
https://www.amazon.com/Walton-Tools-18001-Tap-Extractor/dp/B0006NGGCM
and an inexpensive EDM rig:
https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Reamers-setting-Remover-Disintegrator/dp/B084JJVRK4
Jared
That tap extractor set is brilliant! I need one of those, just in case.
Luckily I haven’t yet had to pay someone to remove a broken tap for me, but broken taps are always a headache.
Peter Fox
I would caution against excessive enthusiasm with regard to broken tap extractors. While they can work well in some circumstances they are far from a sure thing.
Their success depends heavily on how and why the tap broke in the first place. If you slipped and snapped it off while unwinding it from the hole you just tapped there is a good chance that a properly sized extractor will work. If however it broke from over torque while tapping there is a high chance that the broken tap will be stuck and require more torque to unwind than the fingers of a tap extractor can exert before shearing off themselves. Over the years I have had about a 50% success rate using them. For the ones that tap extractors didn’t budge machining the tap out using carbide drills and end mills usually did the trick but that’s beyond the means that most people have at their disposal.
Additionally you might need more extractors than you realize to cover all the taps you might use. For each size there are 2 or 3 versions each having a different numbers of fingers (2, 3, or 4). it get expensive if you want to have every variation to cover every possibility.
fred
From what I heard over the years – the 50% success rate might be optimistic. Extractors also will not work on spiral flute taps. Some folks who came to us for removal work – probably had already tried the simple approaches and sometimes boring the tap (or broken fastener) out might not have been as good an option as EDM.
MM
Those can be lifesavers in the right situation but they are not so useful as one might think when one first learns about them.
For starters there are different types: 2, 3, and 4-prong. You not only need to have the right size, but you also need the right prong count to match your taps. It doesn’t do you any good if you have a 4-flute extractor but your broken tap is a 3-flute. Sometimes you can take 2 of the prongs out of a 4-flute model to make it work with a 2-flute tap but those are weaker than 2-prong models.
Second, there’s very often no room to use those tools because chips packed between the flutes block the prongs from properly engaging. Smaller sizes are worse about this, but of course smaller taps are the ones that usually get broken.
They don’t work at all with spiral fluted taps.
And finally, they are delicate. Even in an ideal situation where you have no chips packed in the flutes these tools cannot transmit very much torque so you can’t necessarily get the broken tap out anyway.
A couple tips I’ve been taught over the years for removing busted taps that can be helpful in some situations:
-use a torch–gas or TIG–to ruin the heat treatment of the busted-off tap. Now you can drill the busted tap out with ordinary bits, or if it’s big you can get a screw extractor in it.
-carbide tooling will cut taps. Depending on the part you may be able to use a carbide end mill, drill bit, or even a small burr in a rotary tool to cut away the broken tap.
Jjosh
I tend to buy in big sets and replace the most used taps or drill bits with new and better ones. I picked up a cheap tap set and broke the handle almost immediately
Garrett
I’m pushing 60 and in spite of using taps many many times, not one time have I ever needed a die. I’m offended that they force you into buying dies in almost all of those combo sets. Those Norseman drill/tap sets are just spiffy for all my needs.
fred
I probably have 25 years on you – but also have used taps way more than dies. The exception being early on when threaded pipe was more prevalent. In that milieu dies/diestocks and threading machines got much more use than taps. Taps were mostly used to clean out old fittings that could not easily be replaced. Once in a blue moon we might use a small NPT or NPS tap to add in a sample line or gauge to an existing larger line (something like a gauge on an existing 6 inch low pressure steam line.)
My home threading has been both with metal, wood and plastic. I’ve cut quite a number of internal and external threads in wood – initially using metalworking taps and dies and/or Acme T&D sets – but buying specialty (Beall) taps and dies meant for wood back about 20 years ago – used to make a batch of Christmas nut crackers.
My basic stock of taps and dies came in the form of boxed sets bought in the 1960’s and ’70’s. At that time Greenfield Tap and Die had been recommended to me and that’s what I bought. That covered me for most common US sizes from #2 to 5/8 inch in NC and NF threads. Back then these were USA -made items – and the sets came with split (adjustable) round dies. I filled in over the years as needs arose for BSW-Whitworth (RH & LH) standard (for British motorcycle’s), BSC, BSF, other Imperial sizes and Metric (both RH and LH for bicycles, UNEF, and my most recent acquisitions in ME (Model Engineering Thread) to work on some old English toy steam engines.
Robert
Fred, are the Beall taps the best for making wooden screws? I came across their web page recently and it was intriguing. I have no use for taps and dies for metals. I’ve visited enough factories with CNCs and other metal fabrication that I want absolutely nothing to do with metal shavings as a DIYer. But I can think of several projects that would have a major cool factor with 1 or 1.5 inch wooden screws and matching nuts.
Mark M.
All really good advice. It may have been mentioned but for quick and dirty jobs there are drill bit/tap combos which work reasonably well in thin wall stuff. There are also nut rivets, which I didn’t know was even a thing until about a year ago and in some cases that’s a better solution than tapping.
Scott F
I think I have used 1 die, ever, and my use of taps has been reasonably small, so by no means an expert. That said, you need them when you need them – I played with the idea of buying a big set for a while, and I think it would do everything I need and in the instance it couldn’t I would have to buy individual as needed.
But that said, my best piece of advice is LOOK AT YARD SALES. I found a 25lb bin from some machinists collection, and got it for $20 off of his estate from a set of estate salers who knew no better.
Sorting that kit was a tedious job, but now I have many types of all the standard sizes coarse/fine, a handful of 6- 8- 10- taps, and some pipe thread taps. They are older than I am, many are HSS, and I expect will do the job they need to do for a long long time (especially given my minimal use). I was even able to put a set of standard coarse/fine plug taps together to give away!
I have no dies, but we’ll talk about that another day!
JR Ramos
First, my advice would seek out what “getting into metalworking” means to that person. Most people are served just fine by carbon rethreading sets, but sadly what used to be common knowledge/education about this stuff is almost absent these days. (the difference in repair vs. cutting, for one, but also things like rod sizing for cutting threads by hand with a die…many think they can plop a 1/4″ die on a 1/4″ rod with or without a little sanding and have a go at it).
For those that want to cut, I’d say consider just picking up the complete 3-piece tap sets as needed (or maybe buy the most common/your most common sizes at once and pick up the others down the road), and dies if desired. This is like many tools or hobbies where the initial cash outlay can be intimidating or unreachable and not many are willing to invest if their needs are just repair-centric with occasional creation projects.
Many would be served best by getting the really cheap hex rethreaders by KaStar (nka Lang and still found under various labels) and picking up taps as needed.
There are some pretty decent Chinese hss taps and dies these days but there is still a ton of junk, too. MaxTool is a good source of high quality ones that are reasonably priced (limited presence and I think solely on Amazon, pretty good tools and a wide range/product lines). The popular “Drill America” is really really hit and miss. Traverse Tools is a great source for cheapies that are vetted and also much higher industrial quality brands.
Most important thing? Drill plumb, tap plumb. You get either one of those most basic aspects off and a) your chances of breaking a tap skyrocket, or b) you get parts or assemblies that don’t fit as well as you wish they would have. I love those Big Gator guides, have six of them, but they have their limitations and they are not for precision work such as what you can do at a mill or even a drill press with some attention. Starting taps are not a guarantee of staying plumb but they often help a lot. Really is a good approach to go with the 3-piece start/plug/bottom sets and you’re prepared for just about everything.
In addition to learning your way around taps and techniques, you really need to spend some time learning about Threads. That 75% engagement rule is generally the most common but an awful lot of hardware is in the 60% to 65% range these days (much of that being rolled/formed rather than cut). And that’s often just fine (maybe even desirable). If you play around and drill for something like 85% engagement or higher, you’ll certainly feel the immense added difficulty (depending on size, material, and quality of grind) but you may end up not noticing an appreciable benefit in the final product mating or performance. And if you’re drilling at a typical diy/shop press (not a mill or industrial press) then you should account for the inaccuracies of drilled holes and perhaps undersize your bit choice by several thou if that % engagement is important to you.
Good bits are a pleasure to work with. Consider whether traditional 118° tip angle is the way to go vs. the diy-ubiquitous 135° bits (both have their place). Thus far I still think USA drill bits are the way to go…however that MaxTool brand I mentioned above actually has a line of “gold and black” bits made in China that are surprisingly excellent…great deal on the 1-60 wire set if you don’t mind the shoddy index…really they’re excellent).
Tap follower in the drill press is a great thing to have along with wrenches/tap ends that will accept the plunger tip. If the piece will fit there, it’s a great cheap effective solution vs. a bench hand tapping unit and less chance for error than with the Big Gator guides.
Coatings…eh. For hand tapping I don’t think you’re really getting any benefit but they absolutely save coins for production/automated operations. Plain old TiN is nice with typical aluminum if you get a good quality coating rather than the cheap-o ti that is usually sold now. For some of the automotive forged aluminum alloys that are so tough and abrasive, maybe cheaper to just replace an ordinary bit if need be.
JoeM
Short and Simple this time: Thank You, Stuart! I appreciate this advice, and will take the sets mentioned into advisement.
Don’t worry, I don’t plan on using Tap and Dye on frequent projects, only for light repairs of connections, and the odd large project that needs easy assembly/disassembly in the form of bolt hole assembly.
Jay S.
Seems like most are against tap and dies, but what about thread chasers to try to save what you can?
Nathan
for a thread chaser I tend to lean toward a same bolt with a slot cut down the threads.
I like where you state full sets are more for repair work. if you diy car repair you will need a decent quality complete tap set and might even consider just a metric only set.
I find I never use the dies. I’ve not once had an issue where I needed to use a die on a threaded part that wasn’t readily replaceable or in most cases was some lightly modified bolt. I’m sure there would be one, some day.
on the metal work angle if you do plan to get deep into it there are tooling sets you can buy of higher quality – but they are spendy and you might get some deals from places that have gone out of business. but spendy. so I like that idea of; you know what you plan to make, you know what sizes – go get a quality item of that size and yes it might be a 40 dollar tap but it will knock out those 20 holes with ease and less frustration.
I don’t like ratcheting taps – thought I would but I don’t. was it my imagination or did someone once make a drill that had an automatic tapping mode?
Stuart
Metabo has a cordless tapping drill.
MM
I’ve owned Bosch tapping drills in the past, I know Fein makes them too. Metabo has a drill with a “quick change tap chuck” but I don’t think it automatically reverses.
A tapping function is common on full-size industrial milling machines and drill presses as well. Sometimes it is electric, sometimes it is a manual clutch, other times it’s a reversing gearbox that engages when the quill is pulled up. There are also tapping heads which install on a drill press or mill and add that functionality, “Tapmatic” is a well known brand. Those are super handy if you have to tap a lot of holes, not only do they auto-reverse but they also have a mechanical slip clutch inside so you can reduce the risk of snapping taps.
Travis
I have a bit of a problem with the older Greenfield sets in the oak boxes….The dies (Greenfield calls the multi part ones “screw plates”) are the highest quality, best functioning ones I have ever used (and I have used the OSG, etc ones).
Additionally, I honestly feel like the vintage (color case hardened) tap wrenches and die stocks (die wrenches) in these sets are the best, period, for stuff over 1/4″. Under 1/4, I really like the Starrett T handle stuff (93A, 93B, 93C). The 93A (the little one) for #4 and #6 is, in my opinion a necessity for anyone having to tap holea this size more than once.
fred
Some of my larger GT&D die sizes – they called Acorn dies – used with a mating die stock that holds them in place with a collar assembly. Most of what I have though are just round split dies.
I agree with you that my Starrett tap wrenches (also 50 years old) are much better quality than what came with the Greenfield sets. I have Starrett 91C, 91D straight tap wrenches and their 93A, 93B and 93C T-Handle wrenches. But Stuart complained about some lack of quality issues with a more modern vintage Starrett – straight tap wrench.
https://14cyiuhvcgv.com/starrett-tools-tap-wrench-bad-quality/%3C/a%3E%3C/p%3E
Back when I was doing quite a bit of hand tapping – I also found ratcheting T-Handle tap wrenches from General Tools (#160R, #161R and #162R) to be useful.
https://www.amazon.com/General-Tools-160R-Reversible-Wrench/dp/B000WSWOIQ
Stuart
It’s been 10 years, but I’m still disappointed that Starrett shipped premium-priced tap handles with greasy chips gumming up the action. One would have been forgivable, two formed a pattern.
MacLean Flood
Lilse tap sockets and I’m not having any issues with my HF metric and sae tap kits. Tap Magic and a little patience go a long way.