I was working on a post rounding up all the new Milwaukee screwdrivers, and while dealing with familiar tips like Phillips, Torx and square drive, I also kept running into ECX. I wasn’t familiar with ECX bits, so I had to do a little research.
ECX bits are designed to fit a specific type of combination head screws that you see on many electrical components and terminals screws (shown below). These combination head screws can be turned with either a Phillips, slotted, or square drive screwdriver. There are also other types of combination heads that I’ll show later in the post that ECX won’t work with.
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I couldn’t find a good photo of what an ECX tip looks like, so I had to purchase some ECX bits and take the above photo. ECX bits are also very similar to Klein’s combination tip bits that Stuart wrote about a while ago.
ECX bits come in two sizes, ECX 1 and ECX 2. By my own measurements of the Milwaukee impact bits I purchased, ECX 1 corresponds to combination of a #1 square drive and a 1/4″ slotted blade, and ECX 2 corresponds to a combination of a #2 square drive and 9/32″ slotted blade. I’m not sure how to correlate the size to a Phillips bit.
Looking closer at the two bits, you can see why the ECX 2 bit has a width of 9/32″, that’s the widest you can get on a 1/4″ hex bit if you go from point to point.
Here are a few examples of places you’ll run into combination screws:
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Above is a combination set screw coupling. Several conduit couplings and wire connectors use some form of combination screw.
Some circuit breakers use the type of combination drive that ECX was designed to fit.
Now you don’t need to be an electrician to run into combination screws, everyday items like plugs and outlets use them too.
Above is a replacement plug I found while wandering around Home Depot.
The receptacle above uses combination screws for both its terminal screws and the screws that hold it in the electrical box.
As I mentioned above, there are several different types of combination screws.
The circuit breaker shown here has a combination slotted and square head. Notice the square head is in-line with the slot, not diagonal to it like the type of screw head the ECX bit was designed to fit.
This breaker I found has a combination slotted/square drive head where the square drive is positioned diagonally to the slot. I suspect an ECX bit would work in this screw, but I’m not positive.
Finally, this old switch has a combination Phillips and slotted head. It is NOT compatible with the ECX bit.
Final Thoughts
The whole point of a combination head screw is that you can use whichever screwdriver you have on you, or bit you have in your driver to turn it, and that you shouldn’t need to carry an arsenal of driver bits or a pocketful of screwdrivers. So doesn’t creating yet another bit type or screwdriver that you need to carry seem counter productive?
If in creating a combination type head, you make a head that doesn’t really fit any one type of driver very well, then creating a new bit type to fit these screws better might cause less frustration. Milwaukee claims that ECX Driver Bits are: “…designed for superior grip to eliminate rounding out fastener heads.”
Does ECX make life easier or just add more unneeded complication? That’s something I can’t answer. Maybe you can.
pete
I remember the first time i tried to use a ECX screw driver on a phillips head… it sure didn’t work! I wish most fasteners were Robertson #2. BUT what always makes me laugh is finish electrical work requires a flat head….. the only driver than can fit into a outlet is a flat head… lol
MT_Noob
Ha! I never realized that. That is a bit insane.
Jonathan
@pete, I have to agree that is a head scratcher, I’m surprised that code has been updated, I even see them on Decora face plates.
Most of the face plate screws also require a flat thin/small enough to easily slip n slide into a receptacles and make contact with the live/load blades.
Honestly I can’t imagine the price difference is the issue unless some licencing issue on the Phillips heads, even so a code change could easily override it, even on code GFCI outlets many face plates still sport flat heads.
Dov
As an electrician, I never thought of a reason to but an ECX bit. On conduit fittings, BX connectors, & breakers I use square #2 bit and see no reason to waste money on the “special” bit.
Frederick Seaborne
If the square bit fits the screw-head tightly enough, I suppose that might work adequately, but the ECX bit “gives you the best of both worlds” in that it had the centering-advantage of a Philips or square-drive bit, and the superior torque capability of a flat-head tip.
Andrew LB
It’s due to looks. And why firearms also still use them. I can’t imagine my Browning Auto 5 with Robertsons, phillips, Torq, or any other type of screw.
Alfredo Marquez
The reason why an ECX bit is better, is that a flat blade can easily slide to either side, especially when working in tight spaces or poorly lit ones. The diagonally placed square works as a centering stop, preventing the flat blade from slipping, which can produce a short circuit if you have to tighten a screw without cutting the power, or damaging a plastic part. Many decades ago, I built many Stereo speaker systems, and the only available screws, were of the flat slotted head… I destroyed some speaker cones when driving the screws by hand (we didn’t have the power screwdrivers or variable speed cordless drills for driving screws then!)…
ca
I’m not an electrician, but I have done a lot of electrical work. Robertson and Phillips bits work fine with these screws (slotted are terrible in general), so I don’t get the idea behind a specialized driver. Maybe the pros know something I don’t.
Ken
The pros I have seen tend to use a slotted driver for anything any everything on PLC panels and their ilk.
ca
Well, that shows what I know.
Wayne
Still, that doesn’t mean that slot-headed screws don’t suck. They do.
Thread Zombie-er
They just don’t round things off, and Phillips do.
I guess I’m the only one here who sees the ECX bit as the best of both worlds. The driver doesn’t slide off the screw head like a flathead, and it doesn’t round things off like a phillips.
I just ordered a driver with an ECX bit. Going to see if it works as well in practice as it seems to from my reading.
michaelhammer
I asked my electricians why they use slotted for all the terminal connections. Torque, torque is the answer. Philips and square Drive yield a higher number of call backs for loose connections. Since slotted screws do suck, perhaps this ecx is the solution.
Stenn
Exactly ! Torque is WHY ECX was invented for tightening electrical connector screws down on solid conductor wiring, flat head sucks for torque, and Phillips always wallows out the screw or the tip, or both when trying to attain adequate torque.
Thread Zombie-er
I’m 100% in agreement with you gentlemen.
indigo
Square drive will have more torque than a slotted if they are comparably sized. Torque should never ever be the answer for slotted. It has the worst torque characteristics of any fitting. The more faces you have to carry the force the more torque you can generate. That’s why hex and torque can carry so much more than slotted and Phillips and square falls in between.
Sam
The reason a lot of pros use a hardened tip flat is because they also use it for the knock outs. Usually you just take your linesman pliers tap the back of the flat head to knock out the box then use your pliers again to twist it off. Tighten the screws on the cover with the same flat head and carry on
Richard Lovelace
All I use is robertson & flat tip. Never no problems.
Electricguy
If you’re running hundreds of feet of conduit using set screw couplings that use the ECX screws they’re great for mass production. Stick a the ECX in an impact and go. Large conduit couplings usually have 4 screws per coupling. Now imagine you have 5 conduit runs on a rack. 20 screws to set every 10 feet or so. You run those 5 conduits at least 100 feet. You do the math. I have found that the screw heads can be soft and oversized making them easy to cam out. Only problem with the ECX is when put in unskilled hands, people tend to over torque the screws and do so unevenly on those large couplings causing the first screw set to come loose and fall out over time.
Just depends. I would start the run trying different bits to see which was faster/easier. ECX bits were handed out to everybody for a conduit run described above.
I would not carry an ECX driver all day though, phillips and flathead do 90% of what I need. The other 10% would probably be square for breakers.
indigo
Square drive will have more torque than a slotted if they are comparably sized. Torque should never ever be the answer for slotted. It has the worst torque characteristics of any fitting. The more faces you have to carry the force the more torque you can generate. That’s why hex and torx can carry so much more than slotted and Phillips and square falls in between.
Rick S
Leviton uses the ECX screws on many of their receptacles and connectors. I like to use ECX for one reason; it is by far the best fit for these screws. For all electrical connections they must be firm, and this bit does the trick, yes for me the higher cost for these bits are worth it. To my knowledge, Milwaukee owns the patent on these bits so they charge what they want to for now.
Joe
don’t think anyone has the rights to it, as Klein tools has a version of it and so does Wiha from what I’ve found online. I originally came across this bit in an 11-in-1 klein driver.
Frederick Seaborne
The ECX combo head gives you both the centering capability of a Philips or square drive tip, and the superior turning force of a flat-bladed screwdriver. I suppose that a square-drive or Philips tip might indeed work adequately for tightening the screws; it all depends on how well the screwdriver tip fits the screw-slot.
Brandon
I despise these screws and will be purchasing a Milwaukee bit kit that includes ECX on my next HD trip. These screws epitomize “Jack of all trades, bad at every one.” I would probably even take a regular slotted screw over one of these. Who doesn’t carry a multi-bit driver? I think I have 14 tips in my ratcheting Channellock: these screws are completely unnecessary.
Maybe having a bit truly fits will help my anger.
James G
I do volunteer electrical work for Habitat for Humanity (I have an apprentice license and work under a Master Electrician) and do ~ 10 panels per year. Nothing beats those ECX bits (except Klein Tools c2-35, but it’s basically the same) for doing breakers. Square D’s 15/20/30A breakers have a 36 in-lb torque spec, which is hard to hit. Square bits tend to strip the screws. Flat heads don’t self center. Those combo bits let you get the most torque and don’t damage the screw at all.
I use the #2 for breakers and panel screws. The #1 works for most switches and receptacles.
Stenn
Thanks James G, great, experienced input….I think the ECX critics are just lazy….I will always prefer to make the extra effort to use the best tool for the job…and “professionals” using a flathead is no justification….some cheezy “professionals” also wire the wall sockets in a whole house with those bare-end push-in holes on the back of the socket too. 🤮
Brian
I agree that these are unnecessary. I wish manufacturers would standardize but no, they keep inventing new, unnecessary, drive types so they can sell more drivers. I really think having to own; slotted, phillips, pozi, hex SAE, hex metric, torx, torx plus, square…not to mention security drivers, including hex SAE and metric and torx is obscene.
Gordon
Each fastener type has a specific use. Generally it is determined by the engineer designing the product in the first place. Can be annoying, but it’s far better than having 1-2 fasteners that do a mediocre job.
firefly
While there are legitimate engineering use case for different type of fastener. I am certain that’s not the reason why there are so many different drive types available.
By now there are enough drive types that selecting almost any of them would fit the bill for most common application. So if I have to guess it’s more to do with supply chain than anything else.
Matt
Winner.
I don’t know about others, but most are all a single solution. Torx, Allen, Philips, Robertson, etc. The hybrid slot/philips/robbie is popular because it’s “universal” for both USA and Canada and ???
Plugs and Switches in Canada started as slots, then robbie, now hybrid. I’d bet USA went slot-philips-hybrid. That way they don’t have to make a run of robbies for Canada and philips for USA, just 1 screw to rule them all but strip out far easier so that you bugger a few on every job.
Canadian electricians need 2 sizes each for flat, philips, robbie, and then both metric/sae allen keys. Torx isn’t very common. Precision can be handy in certain tasks. Occasionally the black #3 Robertson rears its head. It used to be more common but larger hybrids or bolts are often used instead.
Krazy Kanuck
#3 Robertson are typically used on breaker panel covers, but they also have a large slot. However, the last one I worked on the screwhead was filled in with cement and I had to chisel it out with a big old slotted screwdriver; would’ve been harder to clean out the square recess…
fred
At one time having a different drive type – may have also made it inconvenient for the DIY crowd to service an item.
Examples would be socket screws with linehead (aka Nintendo), oval, pentalobe, triangular or tri-wing recesses found on some electronics.
Appliance manufacturers once seemed enamored with using one of 2 varieties of clutch-head (butterfly pattern) socket screws and security screws requiting twin-point spanner bits. Automotive/Motorcycle applications that use drive styles like D-Shaped recess, XZN (Triple Square), Mor-Torq, Ribe (Polydrive), Quadrex, and Torq-Set – may be based on engineering needs – or perhaps to frustrate the casual mechanic.
Then there are those center pins applied – as security measures to socket head screws with drive styles including: Hex (Allen), Pentalobe, Phillips, Ribe, Robertson, Spider Drive, Torx, Torx Plus, and XZN.
Today – with internet access – one can find almost any style bit.
Tjb
Utilities around here often use a pentagram-shaped bolt on hand holes or transformer doors. To get in you either need needle nose pliers and a lot of patience, or you need to buy a couple sizes of five-sided sockets. Same idea.
firefly
This remind me of a company that manufacture special lug nut for bicycle wheel. So they are selling a set of lugs nut plus a matching wrench. Apparently they have enough unique combination that make it difficult for the average thief to get his hand on all the different wrenches.
Welcome back fred, we missed you!
Travis
In regards to the bicycle and the variety of special head patterns: I ran into a terrible time when working on an ex’s Volkswagen. The special socket to remove one of the wheel bolts (Yes, VW uses bolts instead of nuts) had been misplaced. I first borrowed another VW owner’s, but to no avail. Then tried get another one through the dealership, and learned there are something like 100 different styles for any given vehicle. It would’ve been possible to order one straight from Germany using the VIN, but I ended up just drilling it out (which was surprisingly easy, given they were bolts instead of nuts!)
Charlie
Phillips are great for power tools and automated production lines because they will fnd the screw slot even when the bit is turning. Lousy for torque though they eventually climb out of the hole. As for Torx, they are the biggest source of warranty on screwdrivers (I sell tools for a living). For my money square bits (or better yet original Robertson bits) provide the best torque and true Robbies will hold a screw on the tip without any fancy retainers. Slotted drivers are just the first design but not by a longshot the best
ibuyer
You can clear grout, paint, varnish out of a slotted. Not easily out of any of the others. I run into this all the time, especially on boats, but also, for instance, mosaic walls and custom furniture.
Eric
Phillips are designed to climb out to prevent over tightening. It literally is a feature, not a bug in the design. This is one of the reasons they are used in mass production.
The yeti
Ive seen the screws. They are neat. Work with a #2 robbie or a flat. I did not know there was a special driver for these screws . Neat. Good find.
Anthony
Ecx is shorthand for electrical connector, not that that helps explain their function. I don’t think the issue is with the driver, it’s the screws themselves. It seems like milwaukee was just tryi g to offer something that few, if no other, companies offered. Manufacturers are still trying to find the best combination of screw head and matching driver to eliminate cam out. Milwaukee saw a screw head type that had no driver counterpart and attempted to fill the void.
Hilton
Seems like the trade just needs to be educated a bit more.
tjb
I’m an electrician and I love my ECX driver.
Running EMT for example. A straight slot slips out of the screws too easily when trying to get a good crank on those set screws. And a Phillips won’t tighten them well enough without a LOT of downward pressure. The ECX lets you crank them down good and quick without a ton of extra labor.
I don’t recommend the ECX bits in a cordless driver. They easily slip out and go into your thumb, and that particular kind of bit is poky!
They’re good for some breaker styles yes, but as you pointed out some of them have a square/straight instead of the diamond/straight, like most ground bars, so ECX doesn’t work on that kind.
For devices, I prefer a #1 Robertson(square drive). I’m usually devicing with a cordless impact (on its lowest-torque setting), and holding the device in the palm of my left hand. Again, slipping an ECX bit on a driver into your thumb or palm really hurts! Robertson don’t slip or strip.
FYI the reason it’s a #1 ECX or a #2 refers to the diamond in the middle. Analogous to the size Robertson you’d otherwise use. #1 Robertson on devices, #2 on nearly all set screws clamps breakers and such.
I think someone makes the other kind – square/straight (like the one breaker you pictured, or many ground bars), but can’t remember who. I use a #2 Robertson for those. But I do love me my ECX, as much pipe as I run!
Jason
I have a Milwaukee 11n1 screwdriver that has these ECX bits. I bought it because I was going to be replacing a lot of the outlets and switches in my house. It worked fairly well on the screws in the new Leviton outlets and switches I bought. However I did find a flaw, it is easy to snap the wider wings of the bit off if you use too much torque. Finding replacement bits is not easy, or it wasn’t when I broke a bit 3 or 4 years ago.
While the ECX bits fit the screws pretty good, a Robertson #2 fit the screws better. I agree, most of the time it’s not the driver, it’s the screws and lack of quality that is the problem.
Personally I prefer to use Torx screws and drivers when I can. I have had less problems out of them than any other type of screw head. Robertsons are a close 2nd.
Frank
I use Facom phillips/slotted and pozidriv/slotted drivers sometimes when doing electrical control cabinet work. It allows you to get a 100% contact with the screw when terminating wiring. It completely eliminates slipping and cam-out of the screwdriver and gives a much better ‘feel’. I don’t see many robertson/slotted screws but if I did I would get these for sure.
EricM
Personally I’ve found that these drivers work much better on these screws than either a flat or philips. I’ve never tried a square drive.
The only issue I have is that like a slotted screw, you have only two orientations that that the bit will fit. One nice thing about philips or square is that you have four such orientations.
smee
I agree. I’ve replaced a number of old outlets and switches with new Leviton ones that use these screws. The Milwaukee driver I’ve got (not just a bit) works really well with these screws (better than flat, at least as well or better than philips). I’ve also used square drive, but the Milwaukee driver is in my “electrical bag” so I just keep using it.
The driver came in a set of 3 insulated drivers that I got from HD last year.
Jim
I found this type of bit from Klein a few years ago. If I am going to be doing a good bit of electrical work, I use them, if it is just something minor, I don’t. They do help avoid cam out, and are a lot cheaper than buying a quality set of slotted drivers that are actually sized properly for slotted screws. I think the multi head screw came first as an idea of convenience then the unique driver later to make a couple bucks “solving” the cam out issue DIYers have.
Cr8on
Lets just make specific screws and bits for EVERY trade and every different material to…. Ya’know make it “less” confusing.
Wayne
And then multiply it by Metric or Silly versions, too.
Jeremiah
They also have to restrict purchase of the tools for each trade to those licensed in the trade ;(
jec6613
The heads were designed so that you could use the first screwdriver you brought out of the bag, but one massive problem with these combination screws on electrical connectors is that they can’t be driven to the proper torque by any of the drivers they fit – kind of defeating the purpose. A specialized bit on a torque driver solves this.
fred
I think that on a prior post a reader pointed out another – bit similar looking – drive style called Xeno. Drivers and bits of this style are available from Wiha (maybe others too.):
https://www.amazon.com/Wiha-71456-Terminal-Number-2-2-Pack/dp/B002QPPWQE/
fred
I should have mentioned that Xeno and ECX bit style are not identical.
The Phillips II Plus style screws also combine elements of square and cross point drives
Lukas
The Xeno’s make more sense to me. Phillips keeps the driver centered and slotted helps avoid cam out. With these ECX bits, why not just use the square option. That already does both of those things. Wiha, Felo and Wera all make the insulated Xeno/Terminal screwdriver. They also come in a pozidriv/slotted combo.
michaelhammer
You cannot get the proper torque with square drive. I know this better than most because as a carpenter the industry touted them as the greatest thing in screws. From Cortex to deck screws to cabinet screws, oh the promises they made. Absolutely god aweful. Constantly stripped screws, then you’re screwed, because you can’t back this buggers out. Torx is the answer to all screws that need torque.
Hilton
The only time I get my 1inch 1/4″ driver bits stuck in a screw head is when it’s a square. Phillips, Slotted, Torx etc all just release.
Noah
I would be happy if everything electrical just went square already. It’s the best fitting bit to use on those combo screws anyway. Phillips will strip them out instantly.
Adam
I couldn’t stand using flat head drivers when wiring the electrical for our house. I got got the ECX bits and worked great. I used them in my 4v Craftsman driver, and never had them cam out. I used them on both receptacles & the panel. They came in handy when I had some cross threaded screws on the panel cover that are quite tight even when they are threaded properly, as I didn’t hesitate to put then in my impact driver.
Steve
Am an electrical apprentice. These bits are shit.
It is a great idea in theory, but the execution sucks.
EMT connectors and other electrical equipment screws are made by a variety of manufacturers in different countries, and their standards/tolerances are not equivalent in my experience. The depth of the robertson hole relative to the bottom of the slots is not always going to be the same from screw to screw.
This means that the fit is still sloppy and if you ever are trying to insert a screw into the connector – when you have to remove it to tighten them into a box when conduits are going in close together, or when they fall off during shipping) . Because the fit sucks, the screw falls off the driver. With a red robertson, the screw does not fall off the driver.
Regardless, if you need more torque than a #2 robertson, you are doing something wrong. EMT connectors, nor equipment screws require more torque than the amount of torque that is going to strip the square hole out.
Steve
To add:
Dear America: PLEASE stop making slotted screws for equipment.
I know that it is illegal to be working live other than during testing and troubleshooting, but who’s bright idea was it to put a screw that is the easiest to have a driver slip out of inside of an energized piece of equipment?
Jim Felt
Steve. Two of my on site journeymen electrians just agreed with you. Even if they’re otherwise weird enough to use the other “red” brand Hilti for most of their power tools.
And I’ve build entire model railroad benchwork starting in the early ‘90’s with only with #1 and #2 square drive screws.
Tim
I hate slotted, as I think most do.
I never had a problem with phillips screws growing up. I have started to hate them recently, but I think that’s mainly because of all the cost cutting with cheap fasteners. I’m sick of rounding out screws with them.
Alfredo Marquez
STEVE: I am in total agreement with you! I bought two sets of Milwaukee ECX #1 and #2 screwdriver bits at Home Depot and thought: “What a great thing”… only to find that their fit into the several electric devices I was trying to wire, was TOO SLOPPY! Either the Mileaukee bits had too much freeplay, or they just didn’t get to full depth into the screw heads!
Contrary to their Cordless Tools, I have found that many Milwaukee brand hand tools are just CRAP… Even trying to “fix” one set by slightly and carefully grinding the protrusion on the very tip of the square, was NOT helping at all, because the overall size of the flat wings, and their slight rounding of the edges, makes these bits totally useless as their fit into the screws of both LEVITON and LEGRAND screw heads is very poor. And I ended up using the excellent Robertson #1 and 2 bit from an inexpensive “TRUPER” bit set sold in Mexico… And the torque was more than enough for the service.
Alick
ECX does look like a North American style equivalent to the “modulo” / “xeno” or whatever hybrids of philips or pozi with a slot. These are ubiquitous across European electrical gear these days and do turn much better with a matching driver.
Just as Robertson square drive is uncommon over here, i’ve never seen ECX in the UK.
Have you seen the torx / slot hybrid terminals in the US ? Like torx themselves, they work well. I’ve never seen a hybrid driver for those. Just use an ordinary torx.
Checking the lineup of VDE 1000V insulated screwdrivers in a wera compact set, I count 4 sizes of slots, 4 torx, 2 philips and 2 pozi. All these are quite likely to be found alone or in combination on euro electrical kit.
fred
Is the Wiha Xeno configuration exactly thr same as the CK Modulo?
http://www.all-spec.com/Manufacturers/CK-Tools/Hand-Power-Tools/Screwdrivers-Accessories/Screwdriver-Sets/T49146-65551
Alick
Hi Fred,
I’m not exactly sure. What I can see is that these hybrids which sometimes go by the name of +/- (“plus minus”) as well, are simply a hybrid of a flat blade with either a philips or a pozi.
I have the CK modulo drivers shown in your link. They are pozidrive / flat hybrids. Actually I hate using them. The handle is fat in the palm and rounded rectangle in section. You can apply good torque but it’s really awkward to spin in your fingers.
I’ve been buying Wiha slimfix VDE recently which are terrific. They are very slim at the neck so they spin screws in and out quickly, then the piece in the palm is both round and size matched to the blade. Stops you overtorquing small screws but gives loads of grip for big ones. Their hybrid is also pozi / flat.
I have some really nice Wera sets, especially the separate handles and bits or blades but no Wera hybrids to confirm what variant they are. I HAVE used philips / flat hybrids but don’t recall the make…
Best wishes. Alick
Alick
I should add, if you put a philips hybrid driver in a pozi hybrid socket, or vice versa, just like mixing ordinary philips and pozi, you can tell that they don’t fit properly and you have to fight to stop them camming out. Mismatched, I don’t feel that the hybrids provide any benefit at all.
Brandon
I just drive these type fasteners with a #2 square driver. Works great. Able to apply sufficient torque with no cam out.
Ecotek
Haha. I’m glad to hear everyone else say the same thing. I hate slotted screws! They should outlawed. There is no situation where the screw head couldn’t accommodate some other type of driver. As far as electrical goes, I use square drive. I keep a small slotted to put the cover plates on, but everything else is square. As someone else previously stated, they will give you all the torque you need and then some.
Corey
I feel like there was a pozidrive post pretty recently…am I here too often? Lol
Daniel
It provides you with more torque as opposed to less torque with a square driver. Without the possibility of slippage (electrocution) like on a regular driver. Or the usual stripping with a philips driver.
So yes, I love and use ECX drivers for electrical.
Jon
Using anything but an ECX is a bad idea when working on something that is live. Generally speaking if you can sit it off you should but when you can’t using a Phillips or strait leaves you more likely to slip out of the fitting and possibly short out. The benefit is it won’t slip out like a strait bit and it won’t round out like a Philips, both terrible situations when dealing with electrical connecions/screws.
Joe Smith
Whoever decided the world needed 300 different types of screwdrivers needs a good beating. Even if if I have to invent a time machine. Forget Hitler. I’m going back to kick that guy in the face.
Hilton
That and whoever was responsible for 110v vs 220v and right vs left driving and US vs UK vs Euro vs Japanese shoe sizes and various bed sizes and in general standards which are not standard.
Just imagine how simple life would be if we all just drove on the same side of the road (left :-)), only had to worry about a shoes sizes 3-12, plugged a shaver into ANY socket in the world and only had one toolbox of screwdrivers instead of three.
Tjb
It’s not so much the 110/220 as it is the 60hz vs 50hz. Which WAS done to make things incompatible across the pond.
Alfredo Marquez
Well, having the USA as our neighbouring country is great in many things, but NOT at having the same lousy 120 Volt AC system… Many devices and tools are just too limited in power than the “220” nominal (which can be more like 230 or 240 Volts!). Like my puny Pressure washer, that had insufficient power to fast wash a car on only 120 V AC! or my air compressor, or my Inverter MIG welder… or even my wife’s steam iron!
To really complicate things, before the 1970s, we also had a mixture of old 50 Hz and newer 60 Hz electrical grids, and the change to 60 Hz was not easy but necessary, requiring us to modify many items at every home!
Matt
For electrical they’re actually probably the best. Philips is the worst for stripping out with the craptastic hybrid screws because the meat is missing due to the Robertson inset. Robertson is also compromised by the Philips. There are some that are better than others but devices seem to have batches with strong screws and then batches where looking at them will cause them to strip.
My first ECX experience was with the Gen 1 screwdriver set from Milwaukee. They’re currently the only 2 that I haven’t worn the tips out on. My success with them led me to my first “ECX” bit from Racketeers – I wasn’t aware of any other options at the time. I actually broke the wings off it after about a year of use. Very rarely would it strip because it fit so well everything was properly engaged. It was awesome.
Initially, I thought it was an answer to a question nobody asked. If you work with a lot of crap Philips/Robbie/Slot combo screws and find them to be prone to stripping, you’ll find the ECX is an amazing invention.
I wish there could be some standard not shitty screw, but that doesn’t appear to be happening anytime soon. I mean we can’t even standardize Metric or Imperial here in Canada, and with some things like Allen Keys it’s like well they’re both equally sloppy… So frustrating.
Hilton
I must say I’ve not come across a sloppy Torx screw head.
Matt
Torx does seem to be the best but also the least common in my experience. The problem is when it does strip it might be the worst – not that Allen is really any better.
JoeM
Funny! I actually thought of electrical terminals when I saw the image of this tip!
I, honestly, prefer a Philips head for these combo screws. Normally I prefer Robertson screws as a whole, but when forced to, I prefer a Philips for Electrical Terminal Screws. Don’t know why. Probably some subconscious thing, or I have more spare Philips bits to wear out when using them than I do Robertson.
These ECX bits don’t seem to actually address the genuine problem with Terminal Screws. That inner divot meant to allow Philips to torque-out without stripping the terminal. The ECX only address the Robertson and Flathead components. It needs to come to a Philips star on the very end, protruding from the Robertson Square, to distribute the grip across all three surfaces of the terminal to actually maximize efficiency and reduce both torque-out and reduce stripping. Plus it would restore the act of pushing the bit straight out when it’s over-torqued, like a Philips does, preventing stripping.
But, hey. If Milwaukee wants to waste everyone’s money on a crappy design, what do I know?
fred
If you don’t like the Milwaukee varieties- you can try those from Klein or Rack-A-Tiers
https://www.amazon.com/Klein-Tools-c1-35-5-Combination-Drivers/dp/B00Q2UAR1O/
JoeM
Those don’t address the problem either. They just stick the Robertson out farther than the Flat head surface.
It really needs the point to end in the star pattern. There’s 4 tiny divots for them at the bottom of the bowl of the terminal. The only difference between the one in those links and the Milwaukee ones is that the Milwaukee is flush at the end, and the Klein extend the Robertson surface. All that is going to do is hold the Robertson in longer when the flat head edge surface torques out, forcing all that torque to strip the Robertson surface inside. Embedded at the bottom of that Robertson are 4 little divots for the Phillips surface, and when a Philips torques out, it leaves those divots, and turns totally free in the Robertson, stripping nothing.
Neither of those designs handle the Terminal as well as a Philips does. Of course, this is also the least of three separate evils. Much like asking “How would you prefer to die? Shot, Hanged, or Set on Fire?” Terminal screws are crappy designs unto themselves, attempting to please everyone. It’s bad enough we have to deal with them, why can these ECX type drivers at least acknowledge they’re doing the same? Flat Head for reduced chance of stripping, Robertson for reduced Torque-Out, Philips for quick engage-disengage application. It needs the Philips head all the way down to the bowl, so the little divots push the Robertson up and out of the screw straight, and doesn’t allow it to catch at an angle for a chance to strip the screw. It would also completely prevent the flat head “Wings” from re-engaging at an angle and outright breaking the screw head.
ECX is just a bad design as a whole, and LAZY at that! Just use either Robertson or Phillips for these Terminal Screws. At least with them, the entirety of their best features are available to you, and with none of the complications of angles, torque, or stripping the terminal problems that this ECX is trying for.
Tool Of The Trade
These are for the square/slot screws that always strip out when you are doing electrical work. Those screws are horribly cheap metal and should be illegal. I’m not sure how those screws pass qc to be used for electrical work. I think it is safe to say that there is no qc at the facility where they are made. You make an excellent point, JoeM, that the divots in the screw are too shallow for the bit to do its job. This is a huge problem for almost every fastener that is made. Very few companies make a bit that properly fits the fastening drive of the screw. Very few fasteners are made to where a bit can bite into the screw to drive it home. Philips screws should be banned forever. They are the worst of all. They were purposely made to strip out. Wtf is that? There should be no cam out whatsoever when driving a screw to fasten something. How is it that the entire fastening industry has been unable to get it right after all these years?
Hilton
“Very few companies make a bit that properly fits the fastening drive of the screw”
I think it’s the other way around to be honest.
JoeM
I disagree about banning Philips heads. Manually, they don’t strip. The benefit is that they slide into their star pattern quickly, and disengage quickly. It’s not the ideal pattern, I agree. But they do drop in and out of a manual driver quickly. Faster than a Robertson or Flathead. Downside is, as you said, if you torque them too hard, they just go straight to stripping the screw.
I do prefer, most of the time, using Robertson. Maybe the fact that it was invented by a Canadian like myself that makes me biased here, I don’t know, I acknowledge it’s possible. It holds securely, it stays where you put it, and those screw heads have to be pretty strong to get a full square stamped into them, so you don’t strip the screws QUITE as much. It’s still possible, but it happens less with the Robertson. It’s only on these Terminals that I find the quick engage-disengage to be a better choice. They are very soft screws, and we all are embarrassed to know we have to acknowledge their existence. The Phillips really does engage the Terminals the best, and especially by hand. If you’re using a power tool on such soft screws… I think you’re very brave. At least much more brave than I am. They are definitely garbage screws as a whole, and my personal views of them echo many of the emotional reactions many of us have to them. They’re frustrating as a whole, and we don’t like them.
fred
Maybe that’s why Greenlee et. al. sell screw-holding drivers for the electrical trade:
https://www.amazon.com/Greenlee-0453-15C-Holding-Flathead-Screwdriver/dp/B003NFHX40
Hector
Im a electrician and i love using them especially when running conduit all they using a flat tends to slip out when thighting the set crews on coupling but with the milwaukee tips dam they bite and never slip
Dominque
I just did some diy electric work and I used a slotted screwdriver and had no problems. I suspect these may be helpful to a pro.
SteveP
Living in Maine close to the Canadian border, I try to stock up on CDN-market electrical devices so that my Robertson screwdrivers are usable. It’s just so much easier working with a positive engagement fastener. I mean, you can put the screw on the driver and then reach ito the box if necessary – try that with slotted or Phillips.
Having done a lot of home wiring, I’m surprised by the comment above that one electrician thought he avoided callbacks with slotted fasteners. My experience is the opposite – slots might allow for more torque in a perfect world with a blade that fits perfectly, but in reality there is usually lots of slop, which both allows for stripping and slipping (possibly into a live wire).
Bob
Just change everything to Torx. Done deal. Unlike all the rest, I never had one fail or strip. Very forgiving of bad angles.
The Devil’s in the details. The chances of getting ANSI, ASME, ISO, ASTM, SAE, EU, PTA, FBI, SAG all on the same page is pretty slim.
fred
Then there is NEMA too for stuff like this.
bob
had to tighten the loose factory contactor lugs on a quantity of chillers. a #2 phillips, a 1/4 slotted, and a #2 square didnt quite fit. i ‘found’ the milwaukee driver with ecx bits. was able to torque about 60 lugs until the ecx #2 tip broke. replacement #1 & #2 combination bits seem to be unavailable. had to buy replacement as a single bit.
i agree, let’s standardize this shit
BathMc
If this number of head variants, slotted, Philips, Torx, Pozidrive and ECX confuse you boy oh boy are you in for a shock. Go onto the Apex Tool Group website and click onto their Apex Bits link. 10,000 varying screwdriver bits. They have 18 different screw head configurations and then all of the sizes in each head type. They will also make a new screwdriver bit just for your new design if you ask them. Apex bits are used in vehicle manufacturing and Aerospace because of their manufacturing expertise and the quality of the bits they produce. Most people have never heard of them, thinking that brands such as Irwin, Whia, Makita, Stanley etc etc own the market. This may be true in the retail world but in the industrial world Apex is King.
fred
In my post above, I talked about some of the different sorts of drive styles – a bit more than the tip of the iceberg but there are lots more.
In cross point styles there are: BNAE, JIS, Frearson (Reed&Prince), LOX, Mor-Torq, Phillips, PhillipsII, Poxidrive, Quadrex, and Sel-O-Fit.
In socket styles there are: Clutch Head, Hex (Allen), Hex Plus, Linehead, Oval, Pentalobe, Pentagonal, Ribe, Roberstson (square), Spiderdrive, Torx, Torx Align, Torx Plus, 5 point Torx, Triangular (TA), Triple Groove, TwinPoint, Unidrive, and XZN.
Even straight slotted drivers have a variant called Hi-Torque:
https://www.kctoolco.com/wera-055950-1-x-32mm-hi-torque-bit/
As I said, many also come in tamper-proof styles – with a center hole in the driver bit to fit over a pin in the screw socket.
fred
My spelling of Polydrive (looks a bit like Ribe) and Pozidriv (a European standard) – seems Freudian – as I combined them both into “Poxidrive”
fred
I also seemed to miss 4-pin drivers, a socket style called Trident Screw and a cross point style called Tri-Wing.
If I missed your favorite (or not so) style, I apologize.
Jason
I recently encountered the Tri-Wing while servicing a laptop. Quality tri-wing drivers are not easy to find. Most are made in china and are of very poor quality metal. I did finally locate a set on Amazon with 4 sizes and they were better made than any others I had found. They were made in Taiwan.
I agree, too many bit types these days, but I know why manufacturers do it. It’s mostly for security because they don’t want end users to be able to service anything anymore. We are in a throw away society and selling whole units is much easier than supplying parts. Fortunately those of us who do repair things and know where to look on the Internet can usually find the tools we need to service just about anything.
fred
I believe that Wera make quality Tri-Wing drivers in the Czech Republic as do Engineer in Japan. If you want a USA brand – you might try Moody. I also think Wiha sells Tri-Wing bits as do Eazypower and Irwin. Some Proto sets come with tri-wing bits too.
BTW – I’ll add Bristol Spline to my list of drive types
Kevin
I have not used an ECX bit very often as a Robertson is more than adequate for most electrical work. The most difficult screws that I have encountered are the ones holding a device to a box after they have been painted over several times. I do not think an ECX bit would help. A Robertson will sometimes work even without cleaning the paint out of the screw. The Engineer screw pliers are useful to break the screw free. There is a difference between ‘square’ drive and Robertson. The tip of a Robertson driver is made from a separate piece of hardened steel and it is tapered to hold on to the screw. No matter the driver/screw combination that is being used quality is as much a factor as the style. There are lots of cheap cross point screws that strip. Drywall screws and much door hardware use Phillips drive without serious issues. Gunsmiths use slots drivers. It is the fit that is important.
fred
Not everything that looks like a Phillips Drive is.
If you buy European cabinet hinges like those from Blum – they use Pozidriv.
Sel-O-Fit bits can be used on Pozidriv.
I think the some Ikea cross point screws are Pozidriv as well.
Trim screws on older (60’s -70’s cars are often Freason (Reed & Prince)
Lots of cross point screws on Japanese products are JIS
Some French products may have BNAE.
While the Phillips name has become almost akin to Kleenex or other brand names that are associated with the product – it is actually a protected trademark of the Phillips Corporation. In a similar vein folks who don’t want to pay for a license to use the Robertson or Torx names – will call their bits “square drive” or “star drive” respectively
ACalz
Thanks Stuart I had no idea, very cool thanks just learned something.
Flotsam
I think these articles about ECX are real useful for gaining understanding about a new technology. It is sad only Milwaukee currently makes the ECX bits. I find ECX to really make connections quickly and more surely.
fred
Klein has a pretty close equivalent – with what seems like only a minor difference of having the square center drive standing a bit proud of the slotted driver. Stuart posted about these:
https://14cyiuhvcgv.com/klein-combo-tip-screwdrivers-bits/%3C/a%3E%3C/p%3E
Siebelguy
Believe it or not, but they work amazingly on those Ikea cabinet standoff studs.
https://goo.gl/images/R57vQP
Joe
They are the best bit I’ve come across
The material we’ve been getting now days is such cheap garbage that these are the only bits that actually work now. for many 3/4″-2″ EMT set screw type connectors and coupling they are complete garbage.
They’re not small enough for a #2 robertson to grab tight and not big enough for a #3 robertson to fit. Only drivers that seem to work now are either a flat or these combo bits.
Even on receptacles where it always used to be a #1 Robertson, more and more they don’t fit.
My only complaint with these combo bits is you need to make sure it is perfectly seated before hitting it with an impact driver or whatever. It takes a tiny bit more work to line up straight than a robertson would but it tightens so much better.
So I guess ideally, if manufacturers could stop cheaping out on the screws and actually make a screw that takes a #2 or #3 robby and not an inbetween there would be no need for this combo bit.
Isaiah Laderman
The advantage of slotted screws is that you can clear paint out of the slot with the screwdriver. That is far harder to do with any other style screw (except the cross-head double-slot).
Chad
I use ECX bits every day, and I love them. They stay on the screw, they don’t strip/round out screw heads, you can torque them a lot harder…
I use a Snap-On ratcheting screwdriver with them, and it makes life a lot easier.
Emilio+Gonzalez
Klein Tools USA and Wera bits are better than these horribly ground Milwaukee tools.
Alfredo Marquez
I believe that both you and me bought a terribly bad Milwaukee ECX set og bits… The two sets that I bought were purchased at Home Depot the first one, and thee second at a tool expo I visited one week after. When I tried to install some electrical fixtures from reputable manufacturers like LEGRAND (a couple of their 20 Amps excellent quality outlets), and other devices from LEVITON.
I simply could not seat the Milwaukee bits correctly into the screw heads… Fortunately I was careful and avoided stripping the screw heads!, but also found that a cheap Made in China 99 bit set from “Truper”, had the #1 and #2 Robertson bits that fully went into the screws and allowed me to fully tighten all without any hassle, as those seated into the screw heads just perfectly! …
Lastly, I find most of the
Milwaukee HAND tools to be of low Chinese “quality”, very inferior to their cordless tools… probably made by others, to be sold on pure fame by exploiting the name.
indigo
Seems like a ton of people in the comments who are knocking this haven’t ever tried them. They are conflating whether this should exist vs if it’s actually useful considering the reality we live in.
I wish these combination fittings weren’t all over electrical terminals, but they are. I wish they were torx or square drive only and fit well, but they aren’t.
A lot of these screws are made from really crappy metal and strip easily. A lot of times the previous home owner or user went to town on them with a Phillips in a drill and it’s stripped to hell.
Guess what will do the best possible job in that situation when the square is rounded out and half of the slotted side is beat down? The ECX.
It shouldn’t exist. It’s kind of dumb that it does. But if you’ve actually used these, you understand that they are very useful for practical reasons in the reality we live in.
Alfredo Marquez
The philips were a kind of “fix” to avoid over torquing the too soft aluminum used on the first aeroplanes, also to avoid stripping the threads of those low quality screws too…
Henry Ford could have avoided ALL US the pain in the rear that Philips have ever given us, but his greed and jealousy broke the firm possibility of making the excellent Robertson the way to go.