Unlike the Milwaukee M18 Forge 6Ah battery that launched late last year, Milwaukee’s upcoming M18 Forge 12Ah battery will not feature pouch-style rechargeable Li-ion battery cells.
Milwaukee has yet to announce their M18 Forge 12Ah battery, but we already know a little bit about it.
For example, we know that the upcoming Milwaukee M18 Forge 12Ah battery will feature “tabless” cylindrical-format Li-ion battery cells.
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Shown here is a view of what the Milwaukee M18 Forge 6Ah battery looks like on the inside, with an individual pouch cell held alongside it.
Milwaukee’s tabless battery cells, as shown in this image next to an MX Fuel Forge battery pack, have a more familiar cylindrical format with very different internal construction.
In a recent post, a reader asked:
How do we know the Forge 12.0 will have cylindrical cells? I would expect it to have pouch cells like the Forge 6.0.
Thank you Dave for the great question!
I asked a lot of questions at Milwaukee’s Pipeline media event last year, where they introduced the new M18 Forge 6Ah battery.
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The beauty of media events is that conversations can stray. It’s an opportunity to get into the nitty gritty of Milwaukee’s new tools and technologies, and we can springboard into even deeper discussions.
We know the upcoming M18 Forge 12Ah battery won’t have pouch cells, thanks to Milwaukee Tool’s Andrew Lentz (Senior Vice President Product Management), who provided us with definitive insights.
This 40 second video clip should help clear things up:
If you want to dig deeper into Milwaukee’s Forge batteries and what we know so far about the expected 12Ah battery, see: Milwaukee Pipeline Primer: M18 Forge Batteries.
Jim Felt
Thanks for posting this. Most of us just want a lighter more powerful longer life battery that can be rapid charged occasionally as needed.
Oh wait… Hmmm.
Stuart
That’d be the Forge 6Ah.
There’s the potential for a more compact Forge as well, such as a 4Ah with pouch cells. But that’s just pure speculation. Maybe that’ll be next year’s focus.
Joachim Osmundsen
A dewalt rep told me they’re soon launching a 3,5ah powerstack
OW
Whenever I see a powerstack in the wild I’m unimpressed with their size. They’re not significantly smaller than a regular battery.
Michael F
I have to disagree. The smallest PowerStack batteries are significantly smaller than, say, an M18 HO 3.0 pack with 21700 cells. I’ve used them multiple times and I just can’t agree.
Lyle
This might be true for the 5Ah PowerStack battery, but their 1.7Ah PowerStack (the first one they introduced) is amazing. It is much smaller and lighter than previous packs and can output a lot of power when necessary. Its capacity is small, but it’s the perfect size/capacity for a lot of tasks that you might perform with powered hand tools (drill, impact driver, cut-off tool, etc.). I was expecting the same reduced size for the 5Ah when it came out, but sadly this thing is actually bigger than the older 5Ah. Hopefully they will introduce something to replace the giant FlexVolt packs that offer a similar size/weight advantage of the original 1.7Ah PowerStack battery.
Rog
The 5ah is surprisingly large but the 1.7 is perfect. I love the size for around the garage tasks
Lyle
This would be great if I didn’t invest in a bunch of 5Ah PowerStack batteries. I was thinking that Dewalt would next move on to using the pouch cells to make FlexVolt batteries. Hopefully the 3.5Ah versions are small and light like the 1.7Ah and not BIGGER than the equivalent using 18650 or 21700 cells.
DanFromMass
I think FlexVolt is dead.
MM
@DanFromMass
There have been multiple Flexvolt tools released recently but they have been more specialist oriented so I don’t think they’ve been getting as much visibility with the average customer. The DCG 460 9″ grinder came out earlier this year and it is a monster. There’s at least two new chainsaws–one top-handle climbing style and the other is a standard type with a 20in bar. They also have a couple demolition/chipping hammers, a breaker/jackhammer, snow blower, a welder made in partnership with ESAB, etc. They also announced an adapter for their new PowerShift heavy-duty line to allow them to run on Flexvolt batteries. I think they recently updated the Flexvolt lawn mowers as well but I’m not 100% sure on that. They have a couple of new pressure washers, I bought the DCPW1000 a few months ago and I love it. I think there is also a new blower out as well, DCBL777. There are probably others I have forgotten.
Rx9
Excellent article!
I remember a while back, there was a post talking about ways of getting around the power limitations 18v systems, with a couple of approaches being discussed.
The easy and first answer was to simply up the voltage of the battery system, which always had the two main drawbacks of heavier packs and no backward compatibility. Dewalt and Milwaukee made early attempts with 36 and 28 volt systems that have since been abandoned.
The next option was Makita’s choice, doubling up packs on high demand tools. This took care of the compatibility issue, but made things bulky for some tools. It also introduced issues with charge mismatch in battery packs.
The third option was to create switchable voltage batteries, like Dewalt’s flexvolt. That allowed users to exchange Ah for voltage, but limited them to specialized batteries capable of that task.
The options listed thus far focused on upping voltage for higher power, but increasing current can do that as well. The problem with increasing current though, is that its often harder than upping voltage.
The easiest way to up current is adding parallel capacity, as discussed in the middle of today’s article, but that comes at the cost of bulk.
The harder way is to make the individual cells in the battery capable of reliably and safely outputting higher current, and that seems to have been the thrust of modern battery design.
Stuart
Things get murky because now we’re talking about ways to make more powerful tools.
When it comes to battery power, an individual Li-ion cell won’t tell the difference if it’s delivering x-number of watts from within an 18V battery pack in 5S2P configuration or a 36V battery with 10S1P configuration.
With the same wattage output, the battery cells are under identical loads.
Consider 10 people dragging a heavy weight from a single rope. Attach a second rope and split the people into two groups. You still have 10 people dragging the same heavy rope. The tension in the ropes will be different, but no rope-puller will feel any difference in the work being done.
If a brand wants to increase the power output of a battery pack, they need improvements in the Li-ion battery tech. This is true regardless of the tool or platform’s operating voltage.
Rx9
That’s true, but my point is the advent of high current cells allow you to do more with less cell-wise.
High current capacity allows a 5s1p configuration to pull the weight of a 10s1p.
To paraphrase your example, its like like only 5 people pulling on that rope instead of 10, but now each of those 5 people are buff powerlifters who can each lift much more than a regular person.
Trev
The problem with upping current/amps for more power from the tool, is that everything electrical inside the tool must become larger to handle the current(heat). The battery connections, the wiring, the power switching, the motor. It is a losing battle, the tools will become way to large and heavy. Raising the voltage means all of these components can be smaller, and still deliver the same or more power.
There is a reason every time you step up a voltage class in cordless tools, they are more and more powerful. The future will be higher voltage, I love my M18, but they will soon be a dieing breed, at least for high power tools.
Same reason electric cars run on 400 volt batteries and not 12, at 12v the power needed to run an EV, the cables would be as big around as your arm, at 400v they are the size of your finger, but you still get the same power out of them.
Milwaukee knows it, that’s why they came out with MX Fuel for all the larger job site tools. They would do a lot better in the lawn mower as well, but the average joe is not invested in MX Fuel batteries, but probably has a garage full of M18. All the outdoor power equipment brands use much higher voltage batteries, look at EGO, their stuff blows Milwaukee away, way more power and runs longer. Milwaukees benefit is their vast array of tools, covering a huge spectrum of uses, tons of people have M18 batteries because of this. Whereas stuff like EGO, the batteries pretty much have one purpose, to take care of your yard, not as useful as Milwaukees vast array of tools.
Stuart
Different cordless platforms and battery sizes are suited for different types of equipment.
You can’t – or at least shouldn’t – power a cordless drill with an EGO battery. MX Fuel powers tools like core drilling rigs that don’t make sense to power with the same battery you’d use with a handheld drill or impact driver.
When it comes to cordless outdoor power equipment, M18 handles just fine – up to a point. The same is true for 36V and 60V Max tools tools and batteries that have the same form factor.
With Dewalt’s 60V Max FlexVolt cordless snow blower, product listings say that 2x 12Ah batteries are *required*. Even with those batteries operating at 54V nominal, I ran into overheating while the batteries still had charge and there was cleanup work to be done.
M18 AND higher voltage 18V form factor battery systems – such as 20V Max, 24V, 40V Max, and so forth – are all running into the same power delivery ceiling. Forge raises the ceiling, just like Milwaukee did with other tech advancements and developments.
Harrison
Idk man. Go watch Tools and Stuff’s review comparing two 36v 1/2” routers to the newish Milwaukee 1/2”.
The new Forge 6ah battery ran into thermal overload, and couldn’t match HiKoki’s older 4Ah 36v. The new ‘tabless’ 4Ah pack on the XGT was another level of performance up from that.
I’m tired of the ‘18v is just as good’ gaslighting…. It’s not.
Milwaukee is the only brand that melts battery contacts on OPE. It’s happened to my friend, and countless other people. His new m18 metal cutting saw burnt out on 12mm plate.
I rented a Milwaukee SDS Max a few days ago, with the 12Ah batteries for some foundation work, and I could only drill through half a battery charge before I had to put the tool aside and let the battery cool down. I had 6-7 battery thermal overloads, and the tool itself thermally overloaded 3-4 times. I had to start hitting the motor housing with a hose. It was a frustrating day to say the least.
Only Milwaukee sells a rotary hammer that can’t operate continuously, battery powered or not.
I agree all voltage classes have their limitations, but M18 struggles to match the performance of a 1500w tool, and will definitely thermally overload if you try to work continuously. Other brand carpentry tools simply do not have this problem. The 6ah forge packs haven’t really changed that- They are not on the same level of the existing 12Ah, and it’s debatable if they are even any better than the 6 and 8ah. A tabless 12Ah Forge will be quite potent, but any M18 tool that can take advantage will still struggle with overloaded circuitry.
Droid
That tools and stuff video I have a hard time believing tho. Especially since i used to use that metabo router and thought it overheated rather easy. Plus the milwaukee ran through way more battery, like three times more. Nobody can make a motor that inefficient. So it puzzles me.
ITCD
Upping the voltage can be an easy answer or a difficult answer, depending on if that answer is more cells or if it’s new chemistry. A 12V NiCad tool needed 10 cells in its pack. An 18V Li-Ion only needs 5. With cordless being popular for many classes of goods, there’s no shortage of research being done by companies on the next big breakthrough in power density or resilience to change over time or voltage per cell.
Perhaps what we need is the next big breakthrough. We’ve had lots of good steps in Li-Ion since they started showing up in consumer goods 30 years ago but in my view we’re starting to hit ceilings with the technology.
Brad
Constructive critique from a former editor’s perspective: I read the article and watched the video, and my first thought was, “So what?” As in, what are the implications? What are the advantages and disadvantages of these two battery techs in comparison to each other, as well as what’s already in most consumers’ hands? I could research it a little, of course, but I’d be surprised if even half of readers would know why tabless cylinders or pouches are significant.
Other than that, it’s great that you bring new info about (presumably) cutting-edge innovations in tools to your readers. I enjoy that and your deal posts so much that I find myself checking your site multiple times per day.
Brad
Side note: while it doesn’t fully answer the so-what when it comes to pouches, this article certainly addresses tabless, so linking to it might make sense.
https://14cyiuhvcgv.com/milwaukee-pipeline-primer-m18-forge-batteries/%3C/a%3E%3C/p%3E
Stuart
The takeaway is squashed assumptions and increased background knowledge.
This post was intended as a sort of encyclopedic footnote to the other one, and you’re right – a link to that post seems beneficial, I’ll add one in. Thanks!
The challenging part is that there is no firm list of pros vs cons for pouch vs tabless battery cell technologies.
With many brands launching new next-gen battery tech, we need to build towards knowledge and understanding.
There has been the assumption for a while that pouch cells will pave the way forward and break through current power ceilings. While trye, it’s conditional.
Dewalt’s isn’t launching higher capacity or FlexVolt-sized PowerStack pouch cell batteries.
Milwaukee isn’t using pouch cells for their expected Forge 12Ah battery.
The “why,” stemming from discussions last year, points towards temperature build-up and dissipation.
Getting “Forge doesn’t mean pouch cells” let’s us get this detail out of the way so we don’t have to repeat it in future posts and discussions about the matter.
TJ Cornish
Do you know if the new packs have cell balancing in them? I have several 12.0 batteries that only charge to “3-dots” due to cell leveling problems that seem related to either high-speed charging and/or high discharge and an inadequate cell balancing process. They can be resurrected by taking them apart and manually charging the weaker cells, but this is a major failing of their current flagship batteries.