Milwaukee Tool trolls and haters have left comments here, on our YouTube channel, and on Instagram, claiming that Milwaukee rushed to make a rolling tool box after seeing competitors’ hit the market first.
This is FALSE.
I posted a video last year, embedded below, where Milwaukee Tool’s Matt Vargo, a VP closed tied to the development and marketing of the Packout system, talks about the upcoming product (model 48-22-8420). That video was recorded on August 8th, 2023, and he gave me an ETA of early 2025.
Advertisement
I posted the video in 2024 because I anticipated we would see a prototype or final release version the next month.
I keep seeing trolls trying to argue that Milwaukee “rushed” to get the product out and hastily threw something together after seeing Flex, Klein, and ToughBuilt versions.
August 2023: Milwaukee reveals upcoming Packout rolling drawer tool box
August 2023: Ridgid rolling tool box announced and early samples shipped
October 2023: ToughBuilt announced StackTech tool box system
June 2024: Milwaukee shows off Packout rolling tool box
Advertisement
September 2024: Flex launches StackPack rolling drawer tool box
Late 2024: Klein ModBox rolling drawer tool box launched
April 2025: Milwaukee rolling tool box drawer preorders open
May 2025: Milwaukee rolling tool boxes start to ship
May 2025: ToughBuilt announces StackTech rolling drawer tool boxes with summer 2025 ETA
I dropped some hints that Milwaukee was working on a rolling drawer tool box. Even if you didn’t see them or my final heads-up before the official reveal, Milwaukee did show off their prototype at Pipeline 2024, months before Flex’s or Klein’s were revealed.
Milwaukee was working on the Packout rolling drawer tool box before the ToughBuilt Stacktech tool box system was even announced. Milwaukee’s reveal was earlier than all others.
I recently spoke to a marketing contact at a competing tool box brand, and they tried to convince me Milwaukee was “racing” to keep up with them. I delicately corrected them.
To put it bluntly, Milwaukee is playing chess and tends to plan moves several turns ahead, while many competing brands are playing checkers.
Milwaukee has been working on their rolling drawer tool box for a long time. So no, they’re not racing and rushing in response to other products that have hit the market.
“Well, why didn’t they deliver what everyone was asking for from the start?” This is a great question.
Nobody really asked for rolling drawers until a few years ago, and sometimes it takes a while for users to voice new demands, and for brands to respond with feasible solutions.
A long time ago, I asked Dewalt’s storage development team if they would be coming out with organizers to fit their nascent modular tool box systems, and they said they would not, as they already had a separate line of connectable organizers. Dewalt eventually changed their minds and launched TStak and ToughSystem organizers.
Can you imagine a modern modular tool box system that did not have any organizers?
Back when Milwaukee first launched their Packout modular tool box system, I had doubts about how many users would spend $299 for a 3-piece combo. Today, users are clamoring to get the $249 rolling drawer tool box.
Would Milwaukee have seen the same demand and fervor 5 years ago? Keep in mind that Milwaukee first launched their drawer tool boxes just over 4 years ago.
We don’t know when the idea to put a drawer on 2-wheels first came to the Milwaukee Packout development team, or if there were other factors that held it up.
Dewalt launched their ToughSystem tool box line 14 years ago this month. They still don’t have a 4-wheel dolly, although they did launch the double-wide DXL cart late last year.
It takes a while to do things right.
Milwaukee redesigned their rolling tool box handle after a few years, and Dewalt revised their entire system with ToughSystem 2.0. While rolling updates is always an option, it’s always best to get things as perfect as possible from the start.
Milwaukee was also working on an adjacent line of Packout add-on accessories that can also be used inside the rolling drawer.
I think that a bunch of things had to fall in place for this product to come together.
Here’s a photo of a Craftsman V20 cordless power tool battery charger from a review I published here nearly 7 years ago. Do you notice how it says V12 and V20? Where is the corresponding Craftsman V12 cordless power tool system?
I can’t tell you why Milwaukee’s rolling drawer tool box took time. Market factors? Parallel product development? Difficulty in designing a large drawer that can endure bouncing up and down stairs?
But I can show you the timeline.
Even if we completely ignore Milwaukee’s 2023 reveal and initial 2025 ETA, here’s a condensed timeline:
June 2024: Milwaukee Packout Officially Announced
September 2024: Flex StackPack Announced and Launched
Late 2024: Klein ModBox Announced and Launched
May 2025: ToughBuilt StackTech Announced
Milwaukee’s Pipeline 2024 reveal predates EVERY announcement and launch by ANY competing system.
While they didn’t beat Flex or Klein to market, it’s fair to say the timeline suggests Milwaukee wasn’t inspired by those competing product systems. This also suggests they weren’t intent on racing or rushing.
In June 2023, Milwaukee set an ETA of around January 2025. The new Packout box arrived at Home Depot stores in May 2025 and is rolling out to more retailers this month. If anything that’s the opposite of “rushing.”
What about StackTech? Milwaukee’s discussion of in-progress development predates ToughBuilt’s StackTech announcement with concept art of future expansion products. In other words, Milwaukee was first in that regard.
So if you’re going to troll or hate on Milwaukee, that’s fine. But stick to matters of opinion.
“They should have thought of this from the start?” That’s an opinion I disagree with, but it’s still a matter of opinion. Users weren’t asking for a $249 rolling drawer tool box 8 years ago when Packout first launched.
“They rushed and raced after seeing competing rolling drawer tool boxes.” This one can be proven to be untrue.
If you’re going to be a fanboy or hater, fact check your claims or stick to personal opinions that can’t be easily disproven or refuted.
Milwaukee was first. Deal with it. Sorry/not sorry if these facts hurt anyone’s feelings.
Do you disagree? Let’s hear it, and explain why.
5-Step Guide to Being a More Convincing Milwaukee Packout Hater
Here are some tips for trolls and Milwaukee haters who love to rant about the Packout tool box system.
1) Form a defensible opinion. For example, “the aluminum, side rails are a waste of space.” The aluminum side rails serve a purpose, but yeah – they take up a bit of space.
2) Wish for something that is unlikely to ever happen. For example, “I wish that Packout tool boxes were available in navy blue.”
3) Complain about the price, even when there are freebies or discounts.
4) Complain about the inability for different modular tool boxes systems to connect to each other.
5) Complain that you can’t get Milwaukee power tools bundled inside Packout tool cases.
Remember, just because you passionately declare something to be true, that doesn’t make it so. But opinions? Go for it.
fred
Great swaths of folks seem to have become more and more polarized – or at least the discourse in the media and on the Internet have led me to that opinion. Maybe it’s just a vocal few – but I get the impression to some have come to believe that only their opinion can be correct and hence all others must be wrong – and/or have some evil motive for being espoused. We also hear lots about “fake news”, loss of faith in science and scientists, skepticism about medicine (western or alternatives), conspiracy theories, etc. etc. Perhaps it’s just human nature that is at play and is being promoted by a few on the Internet and/or social media. Maybe what Richard Nixon once referred to as the silent majority still exists – and that majority is still inclined to thoughtful analysis and the scientific method. I for one have enough introspection and self-awareness to realize that my opinions (this set of ones included) may be way off-base.
If I don’t like a tool – based on personal experience or preference – I understand that for what it is – and don’t have to deprecate the tool or its manufacturer and retailer. I also assume that the marketplace will soon draw its own conclusions – and if other like the tool better than I did – it will sell. But I guess that some folks – who want to be known as “influencers” may see a need for hyperbole or muddying the waters about the facts.
In any event, I thank Stuart for continuing in trying to keep things straight – and approaching the subject of tools from the background of science.
Stuart
Polarization is common, e.g Android vs iPhone, Yankees vs Red Sox.
With tools, preferential bias plays out in different ways, and some like X and therefore dislike Y.
I’ve noticed that people tend to parrot things they hear without bothering to fact-check. Some people make things up just to troll or aggravate strangers on the internet, or for “rage bait” engagement. Put those things together, and misinformation spreads quickly and easily.
I fact-checked the origins of Phillips screws and was surprised to find commonly repeated reasons to be completely false. https://14cyiuhvcgv.com/truth-about-phillips-screws/%3C/a%3E%3C/p%3E
Generally speaking, many people don’t argue or discuss in good faith. If they can’t support a point or argument, they then resort to different logical fallacies.
On top of that, logic and emotion tend to blend together. I only recently realized the distinction.
We went to buy a new car for my wife. One dealer was awesome but didn’t have exactly what she wanted. We went to another, and they kept trying to steer into emotional manipulation. They had what she wanted, so I refused to budge until we got the pricing and terms we wanted.
In hindsight, being cognizant of the separation between logical and emotional reasoning would have helped with other decisions I’ve made in the past, such as being convinced to accept an at-opportunity-cost ad arrangement “as a test” and to “pave the road to favorable consideration in the future.”
Since that somewhat recent realization, I’ve started noticing when people argue based on logic, and when they are just drawing on emotion. Emotion has no place when discussing things that are factual or scientific.
People tend to get very triggered when they don’t like the facts. Here, I get triggered when people get the facts wrong and I see the same over and over. It’s worse when they’re highly confident about things that can be easily proven to be wrong.
Internet content has declined recently, and that might be the subject of a future post. Hyperbole, polarizing content, and rage bait will be pushed to broader audiences than pure fact. “99% don’t know…” “don’t buy before you watch this” etc. Clickbait works. If I titled this post “99% are wrong about Milwaukee’s latest Packout,” it’ll likely reach more people. You’re going to see more of the same.
One mass media channel keeps repeating that various products are “nearly free” on Amazon, no matter what they cost. A game discounted to 50? “Nearly free.” A laptop for $600? “Nearly free.” A portable speaker discounted from $50 to $45? “Nearly free.” People will click on it, scoff at the nonsense, but because they’re on the page xy-number of seconds to find the price first, it sends a signal of “engagement,” and the post will continue to spread via news feeds.
When it comes to tools, if I don’t point out when hyperbole, repeated misinformation, or inaccurate claims are unsupported by facts, who will?
fred
Yep! I too fell into the trap on the why’s and wherefores of Phillips bit engagement. I had heard the argument that cam-out was a design feature so many times – and from some pretty reliable (or should have been) sources – that I took it for gospel. I appreciated you doing the homework to set the record straight – but I suspect that the myth continues. Sort of akin to the line in the film “The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence” – when in frustration the journalist says: “When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.”
While the lines between fact and fiction still exist – some will (intentionally or otherwise) blur those lines or promote fiction over fact. When the Internet appeared, I had great hopes that it would be an amazing tool for promoting science and fact-based study. Alas, I believe it to be the proverbial two-edged sword – a place for both facts and fantasy – and some of the fantasy not so benign. With AI tools emerging, one has to wonder even more about how fiction and opinion may be transmogrified into what appears to be plausible fact.
Joseph
Stuart is laying down Biblical truth here.
BK
You do realize that Tooltechnic Systems (Festool’s parent company) has been making Systainers through its Tanos brand for decades ?(1993) The carts, storage, drawers, interlocking system, stacking, all previously made. Milwaukee and others just brought it to mass market thru another name.
Stuart
Did you even read the post?
Show me a Tanos or Festool Systainer single drawer tool box with 2 wheels or that can fit on their pricey hand cart. They don’t have one.
I own quite a few Systainers. They’re smaller and more fragile than Packout, and in many cases they cost more and give you less. In this case, there’s no equivalent.
“Classic” Systainers have atrocious ergonomics and required 4 latches be toggled on and off to stack or unstack 2 tool boxes. They sent me some when I bought my vacuum clamp and I’m still severely annoyed with that. When you buy Festool tools, the Systainer isn’t free, you’re paying for it. T-Loc is better, and it only came out after Bosch’s L-Boxxes proved to be far superior to the Classic style.
I have a feeling that if Festool didn’t force customers to buy a Systainer with every tool, almost no one would buy any. They don’t even give you the option, presumably because that would cut into their profits.
Here’s a launch timeline for various tool box systems, excluding the terrible Classic boxes: https://14cyiuhvcgv.com/modular-tool-boxes-timeline/%3C/a%3E%3C/p%3E
Jim Felt
Thanks Stuart for reminding us all that the best ideas and resulting execution seldom emanate from just fairly obscure foreign made tool centric brands.
Blocky
BK, may I point you to early Carpathians:
https://www.livescience.com/archaeology/1st-wheel-was-invented-6-000-years-ago-in-the-carpathian-mountains-modeling-study-suggests
Jronman
They aren’t really a competing product in my opinion. The similarities are they are Modular boxes that store tools. Packout is designed to be kicked off a truck into the jobsite mess then abused by a framing crew. Systainer is designed for more gentle jobsites like finish carpentry.
Robert
Stuart, first I heard that you have a YouTube channel. I see the most recent video is 11 months ago. Have you stopped posting to it? Is that why you don’t promote your YouTube channel on your blog here?
Stuart
I’ve been making YouTube videos for 16 years, just not a lot of them.
I tend to prefer written content, and nobody has been screaming “do more videos!”
There’s a link in the sidebar (desktop) and below content (mobile). I’m looking for ways to make it more prominent in the still in-progress site update/redesign.
Michael F
Look I just really don’t like red, okay. It’s that simple.
James
Man I hate red. After spending a year’s salary on Packout and accessories because there’s simply nothing like it……
But that awful color….I will at some point have a go at spray painting a bunch of them…
Stuart
Branding.
I thought that maybe they’d release black here as a limited edition if sales ever slowed. Sales never slowed.
sdsdv10
LOL, the red color is a badge of honor. I think if they changed the color, less people would buy them not more. How else would you know from a distance that they are firmly in the Milwaukee camp.
VS
The red Labour just screams “look at me” and attracts unwanted attention from across a parking lot. I would much rather have the black Packout units even if they do get hotter inside than the red.
I’ve looked into getting sets of them shipped in from the UK but the price threw me off instantly.
Jim Felt
Their European versions of Packout are not red. But would their actual shipping weight to NA negate or enhance their snob appeal? If it was a more techie product they would probably already be here.
TomD
I got some Blackout™ from Amazon.UK – somehow, adding two of the half-width full-height organizers to my order of a bike made the shipping MUCH cheaper … by more than the cost of the organizers. I didn’t complain.
I wish I had more time when I travel to UK, EU, I’d buy blackout and bring it back as luggage each time.
JoshtheFurnaceGuy
Now that he mentions it, navy blue Packouts would look sharp.
PW
I think Navy blue with some white accents would look pretty sharp.
Jronman
I think Tanos-ifying Packout would boost sales by a huge amount. Imagine if a company could hire Milwaukee to package their product in Packout using alternate color schemes like with Tanos. Also would be nice if the user could go to a Packout website and order color customized Packout.
Kay
I don’t get this kind of hate… Anytime something becomes the next “PlayStation vs Xbox” from the ’00s, I just mentally roll my eyes 🙄
It’s completely pointless, because everyone has different needs/wants/preferences. You could sit there arguing that the quality of a thing is better than its competition until you’re blue in the face, (and you could be 100% correct that the thing is better quality), but that doesn’t mean that it’s the best item for everyone’s needs.
That’s why I love that there are so many cool tool storage box systems out there right now! I am very particular about how organization aids work with my ADHD brain, and right now I can look at a bunch of them and consider how well they would work for me. I especially appreciate that the big box stores usually have a bunch on hand so I can go in-person to feel them out.
VS
The divisiveness is built in by marketing. Many brands actively foster the opinion, even hiring firms to go around on social media and drum up arguments to reinforce the division.
In short, it’s all about the money, unfortunately.
Stuart
Some do this. I’ve caught at least one Festool associate cheerleading for the brand. I caught several of Dewalt’s licensed tool partners engaging in dirty marketing tactics. Brands like Dewalt (direct), Milwaukee, and Makita have strict policies against this.
Tony
Great post, Stuart. Sometimes you gotta ignore the dumb dumbs, but sometimes you gotta take it right to them. Good on you for doing that.
Irving
I’m waiting for some Bright Guy to make a “universal interface adapter” so you can latch ToughSystem 1.0 and 2.0 boxes , Systainer cases, Klein Modboxes and Toughbuilt boxes on your Packout roller drawer unit. Each adapter must come with a can of appropriate color spray paint so all the boxes can be made to match. I recommend Universal Government Office Green.
Stuart
A lot of the latch mechanisms are protected under different patents. People can make adapters, such as via 3D printing, that companies wouldn’t be permitted to manufacture and sell. Technically DIYers might not be allowed to disseminate infringing adapters – IP law is confusing in that regard – but brands generally don’t go after end users.
s
my understanding of IP law is that if i were to make an adapter, as long as i offer it for free to anyone/everyone, because money doesn’t change hands, there’s no infringement.
but, if i create the file, and then charge $0.25 to anyone that wants, it, now it infringes, and i’m liable for cost damages.
Stuart
That’s what I thought too, but I’ve been reading over current IP legal documents, and some arguments sound like infringing brands are enabling infringement by end users.
I don’t know enough to interpret things like that at anything but face value.
Kompahko
I recently discovered with Ridgid, that I dont need a rolling drawer xl box. I put all my accessories in the drawers, put the handle on it and put all my tools in a xl box on top of it.
The problem of constantly stacking/destacking is solved and its the reason why people ask for rolling drawers.
Stuart
Theirs is a fantastic approach.
You kind of have a similar option with Milwaukee and some other systems where there’s a 2-wheeled hand cart, although it’s not the same.
eddiesky
I ordered this (from your previous Acme Tools link) and its not shipped yet. In the meantime, I wanted to try packout from M, and ordered the small and large Packout parts storage containers. Its taken a week to arrive, and they are sitting in Woodbridge NJ. (I suspect due to weekend, weather related events, a delay, and besides its Free and Fedex Ground).
Don’t care about chicken or egg, but do care that FINALLY, someone made a drawer that is mobile. Now, Milwaukee, ya listening? Make your packouts fit as drawers you can leave to use as drawers, or pop out to take along for specific task.
And dewalt, shitorgetoffthepot with your inconsistent (customer is the beta tester) System 2..whatever. Stick with the DXL because those are “very nice”. Like I post, Dewalt FINALLY made a storage unit that will hold their flooring nailer/stapler and supplies (in the single drawer DXL).
Jim
Personally I don’t have a need for a drawer box, but I’ve had my packout system (which consists of 7 components) for close to eight years now and the only “issue” is the casing around the release button on the roller box handle has faded in color. And in all actuality, does anyone really care about who did something first? I certainly don’t.
JM
Launched and talking about a launch are 2 different things
Stuart
Agreed. Some of the uninformed critics have claimed Milwaukee raced to beat still-unreleased products to market.
Bob
They need to make a wall mount system that holds the nail guns sawzalls circular saws so I don’t have to throw in my tool chests.
Taylor
I still run the original Dewalt toughsystem that came out nearly a decade earlier. The dolly allows me to slide my boxes out individually without destacking. The 2.0 fit on it just fine. Ive called Packouts the Milwaukee Blowmybackout for years. I said the first day i saw a Packout that the bottom box should’ve been a drawer and the handle needs to come out. Amazing it took this long.
Peter
I think describing people you disagree with as “haters” is a bit of a strong word.
I know it is more of a buzzword at this point than everything but still odd to me.
Bonnie
I get the sentiment and the frustration from Stuart’s side, and his point is correct.
But I also think Stuart has a bit of a personal stake in Milwaukee (compared to other brands) that creeps in here and there in reporting (the big “I can’t tell you anything about it but there’s something totally incredible coming guys” post a few months back left a really sour taste). Everyone has biases, they’re impossible to completely avoid.
Stuart
That one’s complicated. I let my excitement take over my sleep-deprived brain for a stretch.
When I’m just starting a creative project and get stuck on the design, sometimes I go to Home Depot, stare at the lumber rack, and all of the design specs start to fall into place and I buy what I need.
At the last Pipeline, which was preceded by several calls about new tech, we discussed their new tech at detail. The tech went into the new circular saw, but I visualized all of the different ways they could implement it.
Now, I’m waiting to see HOW they implement it, to see where the potential is exploited for user benefit.
We’ve got to talk more about the tech, but I’ve been a bit lazy since it’s strictly whitepaper type content that might require a ton of prerequisite posts. It’s still in my to-do list.
Stuart
You don’t see the types of comments I do.
There are haters for a lot of popular brands. For example, I posted about a Fluke multimeter and someone took it as an opportunity to rant about Klein multiple times.
In comments to completely unrelated posts, “blah blah Milwaukee sucks, blah blah.”
Sometimes the comments are logically linked, but a lot of times they’re rants to topics no one brought up. It’s like talking about hamburgers and someone starts ranting about salsa.
Peter
I just can not wrap my head around hating something like a toolbox etc..
Just stuff and if I do not like it I move one, same with music, tv shows and such.
But I understand and do not envy you as someone who has to deal with people like that on regular bases.
Which makes me even more appreciate the way you run your great site Stuart.
So big thanks your way from me.
Stuart
Thanks, I appreciate it!
Honestly, I think it’s human nature.
When we make a choice, it’s not a big stretch to go from “a better choice over another good choice” to “a good choice over a bad choice.” Purchasing decisions are a choice. Buying into a cordless power tools system or modular tool box system involves a series of choices.
Consider sports. Fans often cheer for their favored team and boo for the opponents or rival.
A certain amount of brand loyalty is fine and even expected, but some people go way beyond that, and not with honorable reasons or intent.
Jack S
Stuart, Given all of the “stuff” you go through for continuing to deliver an absolutely excellent tool review site, here’s a word of encouragement to keep the faith and keep doing what you do. It’s awesome – like no other. Thank you.
Stuart
Thank you, I appreciate it!
Blythe
Somewhat related, the Ridgid dolly is now available, I saw it in store. Looks beefy, and has large wheels for a dolly
John Blair
I tend to be more of the “I want everything to be organized” camp than the “I want to transport everything in my work truck” camp. I have never cared about who was first; I always care about whether it meets my needs.
While I have plenty of Packout organizers; however, I am not going to buy the drawer dolly. It looks like it fits the “I want to transport lots of loose tools” model more than it fits my “I want to be organized” usage. I ended up buying the Klein and 3D printing an adapter plate to fit my Packout drawers on top. I store my Milwaukee Track Saw in the bottom drawer and M12 items in the top drawer.
I got my Modbox two-drawer base for $139. I love it. If I were starting over again today, with the difference in price, I might choose the Klein product. But of course, memory is fickle. I am sure I got great deals on my Milwaukee Packouts. I never paid full price for any of the stacks or drawers, but I don’t remember them.
I don’t understand the us vs them division that seems to be occurring today. Just because I don’t have a use for a product doesn’t make the people who do bad people or the companies that make them bad companies. Don’t like red, orange, blue, or yellow, buy a can of spray paint or buy a different product… don’t get a pitchfork.
TomD
People forget that how these tool storage “are to be used” has changed significantly since Packout and friends were released.
They were very much “here’s a way to clean up the job side and get it to the truck” and not a “here’s a rolling toolbox you can move around and never dismantle”. It’s a subtle difference, but once it kicks in with drawers it becomes huge.
Milwaukee also got burned on that original base-box (the wheels were notorious) and wanted to make sure they got it (and the slides) right. They’re at least cautious when they get burned.
Jp
What’s your youtube channel??!
Stuart
https://www.youtube.com/toolguyd
scott
Keep up the good work Stuart. You are tha man
will
Im sorry but its not like this is aome huge advancement in storage. Put some casters on a square box with drawers and you have a rolling tool box made of plastic. So who cares who was first or last, doesn’t make a difference. Oh and whats up with fanboys and haters for these huge corporations that could care less about you ,they only care about your money so no reason to hate or love these companies or corporations because they won’t give you a second thought. So get a grip and buy what you like and live your life. Just dont buy Milwaukee i F****** hate that company lol.
Rich Shew
You announced the release of the Ridgid Pro Gear 2.0 drawer boxes on August 4, 2023. Not to nitpick by four days, but your own site suggests Ridgid was first with a drawer box that could be on the bottom of a rolling stack.
Stuart
Ridgid doesn’t have built-in wheels; their solution is a hand cart that works with XL tool boxes. It’s also not sold in such a combination.
Milwaukee’s hand cart also allows for drawers on the bottom, and it came out years earlier https://14cyiuhvcgv.com/milwaukee-launched-rolling-drawer-tool-boxes-earlier/%3C/a%3E .
Rich Shew
You’re right that Ridgid doesn’t have built in wheels. Their solution is superior. With the Ridgid boxes you’re not forced to take the same bottom box to every job.
We’re splitting hairs here because they’re all just plastic boxes. Granted they do make our lives easier, but they’re just plastic boxes.
On the other hand, you seem to be going way out of your way to defend Milwaukee when they don’t really need defending. Really, you’re starting to sound like that bear guy who is always shilling for horror fraught on YouTube.
Stuart
“You’re right but (red herring) and (personal attacks).”