We are about 10 days away from Milwaukee’s 2018 new tool media event, NPS18. They sent over this teaser earlier this month, announcing that the next M18 breakthrough is coming.
Can you guess what it is?
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Almost a year ago, after we came back from NPS17, I talked about Milwaukee’s next-gen battery technology, at least as much as we knew.
Possibilities
Today, professional cordless power tool brands have taken 3 paths towards higher performance.
1) Higher Voltage Tools
Dewalt stepped up to 60V Max and 36V Max tool platforms, powered by a 20V Max-compatible FlexVolt battery pack.
Bosch announced new 36V tools somewhat recently.
Hitachi has a new MultiVolt platform on the way.
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2) Multiple Battery Packs
Makita’s 18V X2 line of tools use (2) 18V battery packs to achieve 36V power. Festool has an 18V/18V x 2 cordless circular saw. Dewalt has a 20V Max x 2 mower.
Other brands have utilized 2x battery packs before.
3) Larger Battery Cells
Many brands have come out with higher capacity and higher performing battery packs built with larger Li-ion battery cells, in 20700 and 21700 sizes.
Stepping up to one of these newer batteries won’t provide universal benefits, however, since they’re larger and a little heavier than the current breeds of 18650-based battery packs.
What to Ask?
I figure that option (3) is pretty much guaranteed. But will there be any notable tool incompatibilities?
Just going with 21700-based battery packs is not going to be enough.
Let’s say that Milwaukee comes out with new M18 battery packs in compact, XC, and HD sizes, with 5, 10, and 15 cell configurations that provide 4.0Ah, 8.0Ah, and 12.0Ah capacities. So what? Other brands might offer the same in a short time. Battery makers will be perfectly happy selling the same Li-ion cells to other brands.
What else could Milwaukee do to remain competitive and possibly even lead the market?
Larger jobsite tools could either feature a higher battery voltage, or they can be designed to fit 2 (or more?) M18 battery packs.
How can Milwaukee power a 10″ portable table saw, 12″ sliding miter saw, or other high-powered tool that users want?
Milwaukee has touted their M18 compatibility history, and how M18 tools, battery packs, and chargers will simply work together.
Dewalt came out with an innovative backwards-compatible FlexVolt battery pack. Although FlexVolt tools are not backwards-compatible with 20V Max battery packs, 20V Max tools can fit the FlexVolt battery.
Hitachi MultiVolt batteries will fit 18V or 36V tools, although the 36V tools will only fit MultiVolt battery packs.
While I think the FlexVolt and MultiVolt systems are great ways to go for higher-power tools, and perhaps better compared to multi-battery interfaces, I don’t see Milwaukee going in that direction.
Milwaukee is very much about compatibility. Would they create a new higher-voltage system that requires a non-M18 battery pack? I don’t think so.
That leaves the option of a multi-battery interface, where 2 (or more) M18 packs are used to create higher voltage levels of power. With such a system, users would be able to power a tool using (2) M18 battery packs. Those same M18 battery packs could also be used for other M18 single-battery tools.
The new line of tools would likely have a new sub-brand, similar to how Milwaukee M18 Fuel tools are their premium brushless offerings.
Why must they offer even higher-powered tools?
Because users want them. They want cordless table saws that can run a full-sized blade, high capacity miter saws that can use a 12″ blade. Bigger cordless HEPA-rated vacuums. Cordless air compressors. Cordless lawn mowers. Powered carts. Snowblowers.
Milwaukee needs to take things up another step. Even if they don’t want to, they need to, to be competitive.
Milwaukee’s M12 lineup is broad, with lots of useful tools. Other brands are eclipsing Milwaukee a little bit, with high-powered cordless offerings that they cannot currently compete with. Of course Milwaukee has their own unique and compelling M18 offerings. But if they can’t match up what other brands are offering, they’ll stand to lose a fair number of potential users, maybe even current users.
What happens if you’re a Milwaukee M18 user and you want a cordless air compressor? More than want one, you need one, for more convenient trim work? You look longingly at Dewalt FlexVolt and Ridgid 18V platforms, and you either wish and hope for Milwaukee to come out with one, or you buy into another platform.
Even if one buys into another platform and works with two different battery systems, that user now has two purchasing options when they need a new tool. If you only have M18 batteries and chargers, you only look at M18 offerings. If you have M18 batteries and chargers, and also another brand’s, you now have two options for buying new cordless power tools.
In order for Milwaukee to remain competitive, and to continue offering new solutions that their users could benefit from, they have to step up to a higher voltage system.
They *could* just come out with a “super duty” battery pack with say 20 or 25 cells, for 16Ah or 20Ah capacities, given a recent industry tip I received about the move to 4.0Ah cells. But that’s going to cause all kinds of engineering and shipping headaches.
When it comes to higher powered tools, it becomes far easier to increase voltage to get greater wattage, than to increase the current.
So, I think that we’re going to see a new Milwaukee M18 multi-battery interface, and new 21700-based battery packs.
I would think we’ll see at least some of these new tool possibilities:
- M18x2 12″ sliding miter saw
- M18x2 10″ table saw
- M18x2 HEPA dust extractor
- M18x2 cordless mower
- M18x2 cordless air compressor
I think that these tools would all be candidates to be kitted with 8.0Ah XC or 12.0Ah HD battery packs.
We’re also likely to see new tool storage products, new hand tools (perhaps new 1/4″, 3/8″, and 1/2″ ratchets?), and maybe even a Packout tool box expansion.
Doresoom
I think we’ll see a X2 rear handle circular saw, and track saw as well. Bonus points for the air compressor if it’s Packout compatible.
Brian
Am I selfish for wanting a cordless track saw?
Stuart
No.
But I question whether it’s something Milwaukee will come out with. That’s something they could do with M18.
The question is this – can Milwaukee make a better cordless track saw? With finite R&D resources, I would argue that they might have focused more on a rear-handle worm-drive-like saw, and tools that are in high demand but low competition, such as cordless full-size table and miter saws.
Ryan
thats a slippery slop for them… have to prevent customers from straying…
I went ahead and bought the Makita track saw despite being previously all Milwaukee. Since then I’ve added 5 additional Makita tools will likely be phasing out Milwaukee. Having two chargers on the wall in the meantime is no big deal.
Ryan Jacob
I completely understand your dilemma. I have a lot of Milwaukee tools and they are my favorite brand, but to be honest despite being my favorite brand they do lack in some tool categories. I ended up buying a Makita track saw because I was tired of waiting for Milwaukee to come out with one. It was a pretty sweet deal with 4 5.0 ah batteries, a 55 inch track and a dual battery rapid charger. It’s my one and only Makita tool but I guess at least I can get more Makita tools in the future if needed. Both Dewalt and Makita have far outpaced Milwaukee in the woodworking and carpentry lines.
James
As a construction company owner/operator I was 100% milwaukee for cordless and misc brands for larger stuff. As my tools wore and needed replacement dewalt was coming in with flexvolt. My mitre saw lit on fire and table saw motor bearings were grinding, after purchasing the flexvolt 12″ mitre saw and flexvolt table saw I took a good look at flexvolt and started buying flexvolt as my stuff wore out. Arguably dewalt has made the most cost effective and well built carpenter wood power tools such as their sanders, planners, jigsaw, track saw, table saw, mitre saw, oscillating tool, etc. I was able to trade my corded dewalt track saw for the flexvolt and I cannot tell a difference in power. Both the mitre saw and table saw are nearly identical to their corded counterparts. Bought the flexvolt grinder, just like using a corded grinder. Bought the toughsystem radio, toughsystem containers with the shop rack system in my trailer, 20v brushless planer, HEPA vacuum, 15 & 18 gauage 20v nailers, hammer drill, impact, etc. I look around my trailer now and see all flexvolt/dewalt with a few milwaukee tools.
I have the m18 SDS hammer drill and it broke after 3 uses, m18 drywall gun, first time used threw assembly grease onto new sheetrock in front of customer. m18 hammer drill burned up after 1.5 years. When Milwaukee came out with m18 nail guns I was excited but after owning bostich phneumatic nail guns with smart point I laughed at the stupid nose on the milwaukee gun. The m18 10″ mitre saw came out, I could flex the head in the rails while demoing it.
The hammer drill and SDS Max drill broke in the same week, right before the tool show at ACME, I brought these to my rep and he knew I was all milwaukee at the time. He wouldnt do a SINGLE thing except say send them to warranty. I bought the SDS max gun to avoid any rental fees and the following week I was back to renting. My dewalt rep on the other hand has been amazing, sending free batteries and occasionally power tools, answers the phone with any questions or concerns and fun person to chat with at the tool shows. He explained that Milwaukee is typically first to market and dewalt is typically 1-2 years behind but that is because dewalt takes longer for R&D, it shows in their tools. Spoke with the milwaukee rep last week regarding what were the idiots thinking when they designed the m18 nail guns. Where they kids off the street that had never picked up a power tool? I explained I bought yellow nailers because milwaukee couldn’t design a simple head for their nailers. His response, wait a couple weeks, we are releasing updated gen 2 models that have a much better design. I asked, “why release a flawed product, get it right the first time.” The old saying applies, “why is it always easier to do it twice than do it right the first time?”
There is a reason dewalt has been making the same designed 12″ mitre saw and table saw since early 2000. Their 20v nailers use the same slot design and nose as their bostich brand. I suspect Milwaukee will show off something impressive but there will be problems with it. Mark my words, Milwaukee needs to make the full lap of design instead stopping when it is “good enough”.
Larry Crooks
The whole life blood of our society is the eletric power grid and wilwaukee is tsking over the industry very fast with new products. The Rep I talk to said that they are putting a lot of money to utility products.No matter what ,my opinion is they are the best .
Nathan
Sort of expect them to do none of the above and roll out a new higher voltage Red Lithium battery pack. IE they have a singular 36V nominal pack system and tools that go with. ANd maybe a charger or 2 that will interface the current M18 and the new M36V systems.
Keeps them different from their competitors – making a similar yet optimized product – makes more money per unit – and keeps them away from potential patent or trademark lawsuits in the future.
Stuart
It’s possible, but doing so would go up against their M18 compatibility claims.
If I’m an M18 user, and Milwaukee comes out with a new 36V platform, with tools, batteries, and chargers that are not compatible with M18, why not just buy into another brands’ higher-voltage platform?
Buying into Dewalt FlexVolt, for example, would open up doors to both FlexVolt and 20V Max lineups. The same with Hitachi MultiVolt.
Adam
MIlwaukee has always tried to keep their tools compatible with batteries for as long as possible. If I know they could make the same tool with 2 backs vs 1 new style, I won’t buy. That is the biggest reason I like the FlexVolt tools.
I see it as a loss if they create a new battery design. Going to be more R&D (which sort of has to happen anyway). There will be a wider selection of batteries so less volume of each sold resulting in higher production cost. Potentially alienate people who want a variety of tools that may only need one or 2 with extra power.
No lawsuits should arise, as putting 2 batteries together is not patent-able. Milwaukee also filed a patent in 2016 for a multi-voltage battery technology, so should keep Dewalt or Hitachi in check on that front. I really doubt Milwaukee would set themselves up for massive lawsuit like that.
Nathan
what compatibility claim? If I recall correctly, big if, Milwaukee never said they wouldn’t develop a new battery platform just that they wouldn’t develop an 18V tool that used a different battery platform or vice versa.
They always talk about being more efficient and even decried against the dewalt system as wasteful and impractical when it came out. If they stick to their marketing guns and don’t pull a BMW, then they will not roll out a multi volt system.
Meanwhile IIRC they also disparaged against the whole dual battery ordeal with Makita first put theirs into play. It would be in their nature to bring out a new voltage platform and go down the marketing road of “this is the most efficient use of . . . . . . . “. It is somewhat accurate to say making a system that work on a specific battery voltage and current throughput design is efficient from top to bottom.
Stuart
When they released the 9.0Ah battery, and especially in vs. competitor comparisons, they emphasized the compatibility.
Personally, I think that a higher voltage platform with 1-way cross-compatibility, or adapter of some kind, would be better than a multi-battery interface. But a multi-adapter interface would be more inline with their past compatibility efforts.
Raoul
Since Flexvolt came out, which I bought into, I thought someone (most likely Milwaukee) could really outdo Dewalt with a selectable voltage. Figure a three bank battery like a Flexvolt that is controlled by the user to select 18, 36, or 54 volt depending on the task. If they need light duty but extended run time, select 18v, or heavy duty short run time at 54 volt, or in the middle. It would be the best of both worlds. Default the battery to 18v so it retains compatibility with old tools and default the new tools to 18v so it’s compatible with old batteries. All problems solved. Control it with BT to make it slick. Also I think multiple batteries are critical for big tools like a 12″ miter and 1p” table saw. It could all be incorporated.
Raoul
Thinking outside the tool box, one could reasonably look to other industries to see what the future possibilities in power tooks are. Take Tesla for example. A Tesla is basically a power tool. Whatever features they are packing into a Tesla could probably put into a power tool such as their use of different modes of performance. I don’t know how many modes a Tesla has but there is at least a normal mode and Ludicrous mode.
Adam
I hope to heck they will be announcing a M18x2 chainsaw, or single M18 with some new battery. Otherwise I’ll be looking at another brand, as I can’t wait another year.
Not a huge mention, but Milwaukee just released a M18 mini Radius light. Came across it while looking at the original unit.
fred
Other tools that might benefit from the x2 or higher approach:
M18x2 or x4 router table
M18x2 or x4 Wet Tile Saw
M18x2 concrete saw
Eric
I don’t see much demand for a router table or tile saw, they’re both stationary tools, and primarily used when there is already power available on location. Even with 2 battery packs a router wouldn’t last very long. And a tile saw needs water run to it anyway, so not a big deal to run power to it too. And no way are 2 battery packs going to power a decent concrete saw.
Chris
Dewalts flexvolt concrete saw certainly does look like a capable tool. From what I’ve seen it out performs Stihl’s cordless electric concrete saw.
James
Dewalt recently announced a 12ah battery that is the same form factor as the 9ah.
Stuart
Yes. https://14cyiuhvcgv.com/dewalt-12ah-flexvolt-20v-max-battery/%3C/a%3E%3C/p%3E
Nathan
Apr 23, 2018
follow on – if they do the mitre saw route I could see that but again I see a 36V battery pack. If they do the X2 route I’ll be slightly surprised.
Now I suppose I could also see them doing the “flexvolt” idea but via BT connect system sorry – One Key – it knows what tool it’s attached to and via electronics internal it swaps voltages. Thus not like the switch on a dewalt and not like using different prongs on the hitachi.
and if they make a table saw I expect it to look alot like the current ridgid but I sort of bet they don’t. and I do expect to see them bring out a new impact wrench on the new battery system. Just to do so – nobody else has one right now so it would make them the new power king.
lights – for the new system
and probably the hepa vac system
Currie
Milwaukee needs to come out with it’s own battery inverter that attaches to the pack out, the inverter dewalt has is the only tool dewalt has on Milwaukee
Joe Smith
DeWalt makes a lot of things Milwaukee doesnt. And vice versa.
Don’t let brand loyalty get in the way of facts.
David C.
I was thinking about the possibility of a built in inverter inside of the larger higher demand tools. That way higher demand tools that would benefit from the efficiencies that come from higher voltage motors can still use the same M18 battery as the rest of the line. For example, a M18 9.0ah could be converted to approximately to 54volts at a 3.0ah equivalent (minus energy converted to heat through the inverter). Obviously it would require the use of a certain minimum amp hour battery to be used in the higher demand tools, but that battery would work in all M18 tools.
alex
What you are referring to is a step up or boost converter not an inverter. Inverter changes direct current to an alternative current unlike boost converter that increase dc voltages to an higher value.
David C.
Yes, you are correct. I meant to say boost converter. thank you for the correction.
James C
I’m thinking nothing less than an m18 exo suit. Come on Milwaukee, don’t disappoint me!
michaelhammer
That we be AWESOME! Carrying an entire rack of 2 x 6’s, now that’s efficiency. You could have a saws all hand and a hand where different drills rotate into place. Certainly would fit the hipe.
Cody Zinker
Home Depot just dropped the price of Milwaukee’s M18 hedge trimmer, string trimmer, and blowers. Maybe they know something. x2 yard equipment coming?
Adam
not sure where you are looking, but pricing is all the same, except the Gen 1 blower dropped to $99 to stores that still have it, and $129 on most tool sites.
They did already come out with a Gen 2 blower, but I see no reason for them to replace the current string or hedge trimmers. More than enough power, and trade off of extra weight to power probably isn’t go to be worth it.
The only M18x2 outdoor equipment that makes sense are a chainsaw & backpack blower.
Carl Sampson
I’ll through in a wild guess for a new M18 battery pack type that allows for wireless charging.
AngryDrumGuy
All of the milestones they’re touting are power-based, so you have to think this would be along those lines.
Chris
M12 table saw. I’m calling it. It’s going to happen.
Adam
ripping a lot of balsa wood are you? lol
Darth
This made me laugh. M12 table saw tearing through that balsa wood.
Josh
M12 Surge, I’d buy it tomorrow.
Jeremy J
I love my m12f impact, it fits in my tool pouch, and inside cabs. But it’s too loud for indoor work/offices and the precision on the Surge is awesome.
James C
I have the first gen m12 impact. I love how quiet it is when it’s in the paperweight or doorstop modes.
An m12 surge would get on my shortlist immediately.
Diplomatic Immunity
If they want my attention then coming out with their own Flexvolt/multivolt that is backwards compatible would do that.
Austin
I don’t think they will do x2 stuff. I think they will do a multi volt system. I think it will be like hitachi 18v and 36v. The batteries will have ten 21700 cells. They are capable of 5ah on 36v and 10ah on 18v. The difference will be that they will be backwards and forward compatible. You will be able to use any m18 pack on the new 36v tools but they will run with less power much like the festool cordless tracksaw can run on one battery. And the new multi volt batteries like flexvolt and hitachi will work on any m18 or new m36 tool. That’s my prediction. But I will find out soon enough as I am attending nps next week.
Stuart
While possible, I would think that “turtle” and “hare” modes like on the Festool might be more problematic than not allowing for 2-way compatibility. That would require Milwaukee to design the new tools to handle a wide range of power and current capabilities. A tool would have to run on 1.5Ah 5-cell batteries and theoretical multi-voltage batteries alike. That might lead to compromises being made.
Raoul
With the tools alk being run by microprocessors now I would think they could make them smart enough to do that.
Mike
I’m not sure but I think Hitachi has patent on it I know Dewalt has a 7 year patent on the flexvolt
EastBayGrease
“The dawn of m18 Fuel”… (cues “2001: a Space Odyssey” themesong)
Chris
Perhaps an M18 job site microwave oven to compete with Makita’s coffee maker?
Along that same cooking theme, a complete line of M18 kitchen equipment. Blenders, mixers, electric knives, can openers… the possibilities are endless. Imagine an entire restaurant kitchen without cords!
Maybe I’m all wrong and they are going after the sportsman market.
An M12 fishing rod that eliminates that pesky reel crank?
A dual battery M18 air conditioner for those hot days camping?
A quad battery M18 ATV or outboard motor?
I can’t wait to see this stuff!!!
😉
JeffMC_VT
I’ve been harassing the Milwaukee sales rep in my area for 2 years to get him to pass along a request for an M18 table saw.
I’d also like an M18 drone for inspections, an M18x2 HEPA vacuum backpack, an M18x4 shopvac, an M18x10 pump jack and an M18x20 pickup truck – all Milwaukee red with a lightning bolt on the side of course.
Darth
I’d seriously buy into the M18 line if they were able to get an M18x20 utility vehicle. ~360v engine. That would put out some serious torque. Almost enough to have a M18x40 farming tractor. After all, why only go into the construction market when you can tap into the farming market. One battery to rule them all.
michaelhammer
That’s a hell of a multi port charger you’re talking there.
Andrew
I think they might just show that you can get 1800 or more watts out of 18 volts.
Doug
Good comment, I like quantitative comparisons. Both Metabo and DeWalt claim 2400 watts of power in their newest tools. Metabo using 20 cells (two 18 volt packs, each with 10 – 21700 cells) and DeWalt using 15 – 20700 cells in a single Flexvolt pack. I think 1800 watts or greater is feasible for an upgraded m18 pack, with 15 cells. Two of those and you’d have enough power to run just about any woodworking or outdoor power tool, right? Too bad Milwaukee has never reported max watts out on their battery packs, to my knowledge.
Andrew
the 4.0 21700 cells available now can continuously output 30 amps and easily 60+ amps for reasonably extended bursts. So while it’s feasible, the challenge is still making things viable and efficient at this high amp/low voltage setup. Car starters are a more extreme example, but they aren’t efficient. And needing to run 8 gauge or so wire within a tool might be a problem.
Andrew
Called it.
Stuart
=)
J Durst
Remember the ridgid max select tools of a decade ago? They worked on existing 18v and 24v batteries with different degrees of performance. Ridgid and Milwaukee are now sister companies under the tti umbrella. Just saying.
Andy
Maybe it will be tools that have any sort of dust and moisture protection. I swear if one more of my milwaukees has to go into warranty repair for trigger/ circuitry failure, I’ll sell off the whole lot.
Jeremy Brown
???
Rocco Cipriani
I have become a big fan of Milwaukee tools and going all cordless. It would be a homerun for me to see more “MADE IN USA ” in their product line-up.
taras
That’s because batteries are measured in Watt*Hours, and all batteries should have this labeled on them.
Watt output of tools is a different thing, and it’s not an accepted standard because the watt output of a tool is affected by2 different variables. Watt output of a rotational tool is made up of torque and RPM. You can keep the same Watt output by decreasing torque but increasing RPM, that’s why it’s not a good measure of tool output, because it’s dependant on 2 variables.
The yeti
M18 fuel sex bots for the fan boys ?
Jason. W
Battery backpack. Enough power to power any tool you could use (at a any volt you choose)
Think ghost busters, but not as cool
D
That’s would be handy. 10 battery packs and a built-in charger.
D
A multi voltage battery that does 18V and 36V, as well as two of those batteries in X2 for 72V on certain tools would be the ideal battery platform. A very flexible system indeed.
That’s taking the best of Hitachi and Dewalt and combining them.
D
A multi voltage battery that does 18V and 36V, as well as two of those batteries in X2 for 72V on certain tools would be the ideal battery platform. A very flexible system indeed.
That’s taking the best of Hitachi and Dewalt and combining them.
I think it will just be an announcement for X2 however.
OldominionDIYer
Milwaukee will continue to offer backward compatibility I think it is a mainstay of there brand. I do believe that in order to keep pace or lead in the cordless power arena they will have to have a multi-voltage high amp-hour battery utilizing the 21700-based battery packs its either compete or die, and Milwaukee wants to compete. I will be very interested to see what direction they go. If they don’t introduce a new battery system/technology (that is backward compatible) then I will be rather disappointed frankly, the timing is critical. How about One-key linked batteries turning non-one key tools into one-key style functionality, I could go for that but I doubt it is possible. Just bought my first OPE from Milwaukee and am very pleased with it, I could see them expanding in this area quickly if they introduce a higher power/capacity battery technology.
I am standing by Milwaukee … Amaze me!
Lazy Guy DIY
At the tool event up in NYC earlier in the month, Milwaukee had a very strong emphasis on their M12 line that they teased, but were unwilling to share.
L
1)A narrow & wide packout sized batteries would be nice, you could use them to plug in equipment directly with a standard power outlet or usb port …but you could also use them to charge M12 or M18 batteries as well.
2) I think the packout system currently offered is only the tip of the iceberg in terms of what could be offered…Think premade inserts,shelving options,
3)Given TTI owning so many vacuum brands I see this as an area where Milwaukee could lead the industry in dust control options
3) Maybe enter the digital measuring space….it would be nice to see Milwaukee’s take on laser tapes and measuring tools
JC
First off NPS18 caught me off guard. Im used to it being in June but this saves me a bunch of anticipation.
I think Milwaukee will go with a dual voltage and a couple of dual battery tools ala Flexvolt. I hope Milwaukee makes a dual battery table saw, dual batter compressor that can produce 2+ scfm, a power station like dewalt, and a rear handle circ saw – I had the dewalt version in my cart last week when Acme was running 15% off but I held off and good thing seeing as NPS18 is earlier this year.
I also hope as I have been for 5 years now that they will release an updated jigsaw with a blower and led.
Joe
Milwaukee claim to fame was …1 battery can do it all…1 tool 1 battery…they blasted Makita for 2 batteries and Dewalt for 2 systems ,,, endlessly….how do they save face by having anything but 1 battery 1 tool…? ..
A battery that can do 18v and another voltage (60v ) has been done….I’m interested to see what they do to compete with Dewalt FlexVolt…..I don’t consider metebo a threat in the USA…and most construction guys I know don’t like the 2 battery systems, they are much heavier and requires Twice the amount of batteries on hand and charging, plus No two battery tool is even close to the power of Flexvolt tools., never mind an 18v tool.
Lance
DeWalt isn’t THAT far ahead of X2 36V tools with their 54V FlexVolt System (it’s not 60V). There may be a difference, but it’s not huge; 50% higher voltage but 25% fewer cells.
The 120V miter saw is a step ahead, for sure.
Joe
It’s leap years ahead ….I’m a framer, Nothing is even close to Flexvolt circ saw, nothing…and the rear handle direct drive saw is in a class by itself…absolutely true……..the 12” mitre and tablesaw perform as good as corded …..looking at stats on paper is so far from the truth it’s staggering…watch YT on the sds plus ,it blows away the comp and with less power, except Hilti at 3x the price.
HolyGrail
” No two battery tool is even close to the power of Flexvolt tools., never mind an 18v tool. ”
Well I don’t know about that. The Flexvolt Sawzaw still can’t compare to the Fuel Sawzaw. Including the terrible vibration.
The Flexvolt circular saw on the other hand, that one’s a beast. Runtime sucks tho.
Philip
Well it seems most agreed dewalt has a great set up. And any plain old cell Tec spun up… Any one can possibly build. If it’s multi v… Did they pay dewalt a settlement. Speed switches already conserve power on hi demand tools. Bottom line 2 bat’s on hand tools are horrible… Larger stuff okay!
HammerDrillJoe
My guess is Milwaukee will announce autonomous tools. then we can all retire as the tools do all the work.
Mike
When Dewalt came out with flexvolt that Was game changing, that must have gave other tool companies anurisms, panic set in makita was quick with the 18×2 system and Milwaukee with the 9amp battery which didn’t work out too well with the 10inch miter saw not enough power even the makita with 2 batteries still isn’t enough, the Dewalt using 2 60v batteries knocked it out of the park it was more powerful than their corded and hope if they make a 10inch they use the 2 battery system . If these companies were smart they would make 40 amp battery backpack with a flex cord to hook up to your power tools like stihl and Husqvarna did it would be great for when your doing sawing and drilling and yoi don’t want change batteries all the time or on the OPE equipment
Philip
Not exactly sure what u mean… But will give it a shot! Take a look into dewalt power station/charger. Will take 4 large batteries. 3000 peak watts.
Joe
Absolutely true, so far Flexvolt is the dominating force.
Norwegain Milwaukee Viking
M18: 21700 Battery’s that get fully charged in 20min.
Packout: Charging station, Lamp, Compressor, Radio, vacuum, and cooler.
M12/18: Green Cross Lasers.
Milwaukee Digital Levels. (Empire just red)
M18: Table saw and Track Saw.
M18: Adapter so you can use all tools with cord.
Philip
Oh don’t forget a new charger to go with new 21700. Everyone knows 1h and 50 min is horrible and not even competitive. Dewalt already done job 30 minutes prior with a 12 amp hour!
Jim
They are going to come out with a 12ah battery.
Jeremy Brown
Rechargeable M18 car jumper pack with small inverter/usb outs. Logical use for the high power batteries, and gives multiple uses off one battery platform. Good quality high power ones are >250$, so not having a built in battery would be very competitive.
I’d like to see a better m12 dremel and an m18 track saw, and a hydraulic driver.
Improved m18 vacuum would be nice.
Better packout toolbags. The current ones are dumb. Waterproof tough boxes and open top only tool bags are a silly combination.
More packout organizers, either with removable shallow trays or drawers.
glenn
They may do a 2 battery system but stay with 18v and have tools designed around the extra current available.
James
Maybe they’ll make a universal adapter system to use any major competitors batteries in their tools. Perhaps with update-able firmware. Then the resistance to buy into any particular Milwaukee tool would be far lower if you were exclusively on a different system. Well that’s what I would do if I wanted to sell more tools.
Matt
Marketing and BS aside, is there any Milwaukee tool with a FlexVolt equivalent that’s truly lacking power and it wouldn’t be fixed by an update? Like it’s a complete night and day difference? I can’t think of anything, but some of the comparisons are using “old” Milwaukee tools with the “new” HD battery and they’re pretty competitive against the competition that knew what the benchmark to beat was.
For example… The Super Hawg is 3-4 years old now and while it doesn’t have the speed the DeWalt has, it’s hardly a slouch. With an update to Gen 2 or skip 2 and go to 3, it might be even better – especially with the QuikLoc or whatever chuck you can get for it.
12″ Miter – maybe? I’ve yet to see anything larger than the cordless DeWalt 7.25 on a site.
I would REALLY like to see a Milwaukee Framing Nailer, using what they’ve learned from their smaller stuff, and the Hitachi. That Hitachi is really tempting. Also, Hilti has a cordless, gasless nailer for concrete now. If Hilti can shoot into concrete cordless, without the assistance of a .22 cartridge, there’s no reason Milwaukee can’t shoot 3.25″ nails into wood.
I’d also like to see PackOut kits at HD Canada again. I had 2 ordered but there was a shipping issue/something got lost, so no beuno. Individually they’re about $150 more than the kits HD had. HD USA gets way, way more Milwaukee love than we do up here.
An M12 Surge would be awesome. I’m really loving the G2 kit. The impact is not what one would consider quiet tho.
Packout Radio
I could see the “Next Breakthru” being an updated Battery and Fuel Mk 2. Refreshed mainstay M18 tools. Drills, 7.25 Skilsaw, Sawzall, and a few new things tied to the new generation. 12″ Miter and Table saws for example. I could also see an expansion of the M12 Fuel line.
Stuart
I don’t think we’ll see an M12 Surge. It’ll likely be close in size to the M18, and probably cost nearly as much.
Joe
Sorry but ,there is not 1 tool ( except the sawzall) that can even come close to Flexvolt power. I run 2 framing companies, nothing is close to the 575 or 577 saws for power, not close,not kinda close, …..Makita rear handle is in the ballpark, but Milwaukee is not even in the game for construction tools . ….
Matt
The Sawzall is Gen 1 from back in 2013. The 7 1/4 saw launched 2014. Up until the FlexVolt, I don’t think that DeWalt had anything that was even close in the cordless department. Perhaps the tables are somewhat flipped now, but you’re also looking at a brand new saw vs ones that date back 5 years.
A “Gen 3” update/refresh would likely go a long ways getting back what FlexVolt took. Voltage is important, but it’s current and frequency that also play a large role in these tools.
nfletcher2
How long after NPS does Milwaukee generally release the tools they announce? I have really stepped up my tool purchasing lately and I have a few items I am eyeing but would love to wait and see what Milwaukee has in store first!
Stuart
1-10 months.
Joe
True.lol
nfletcher2
Do they give any timeframe on a tool by tool basis? And what the best way to track when specific tools will get released? I’ve heard people discuss pre ordering. How do you do that?
Many question, sorry!
Stuart
Timeframes? They have in the past.
How to keep track of ETAs? I don’t know?
Here’s how things usually go: NPS (New Product Symposium) announcement, then official press release and public announcement, and at that time there’s usually a more accurate ETA and vendors have pages up for preorders.
ETAs supplied at NPS are usually rough, and I believe they’re more for editorial reference than public purchase planning.
I’ve seen prototypes at NPS shows, and R&D production models. Generally, these aren’t retail or supply chain production models.
The NPS show typically showcases the next 1-10 months of releases. I’d say most of the new tools are 1-6 months away from being officially announced or released, but some are 6+ months out.
With this past year, the ETAs were all 1-6 months out, and I believe Milwaukee hit most if not all of those targets.
Thus, if the trend continues, most of the tools that will be announced next week will likely be on the market by December 2018.
In past years, recent announcements like the inflator, rivet tool, and cordless sander might have been announced at the previous NPS.
nfletcher2
Great in-depth answer. Thank you Stuart.
Nathan
You know if they wanted to get me to buy red – there is one thing I don’t see on the market that would help us southerner’s out.
Cooling suits. Some tool company should make one. (yes I know about the makita blower shirt that I can’t get)
I’m talking peltier or other cooling device – recirculation system – runs off battery pack and yes it means I’d buy more batteries too.
fred
Its a thought and an issue for workers everywhere – not only in the South . You need to transfer the heat away from the body. Where you put the “hot” junctions of a Peltier effect array might prove to be an issue. Using a fan for air circulation works because you take advantage of the latent heat of vaporization carried off by evaporating sweat which works better when relative humidity is low, Maybe circulating chilled water or other coolant from a backpack would work?
Aaron
Stuart, I honestly don’t foresee a scenario in which Milwaukee leads the market (I’m assuming you mean sales) and overtakes DeWalt for one very simple reason: they’re almost exclusively a Home Depot entity. If I want to buy DeWalt, I can go to Lowe’s, I can go to Home Depot, I can order off of Amazon. If I want to buy Milwaukee, I’m mostly just stuck with Home Depot. They’d be better off trying to sell their stuff at Lowe’s like they did circa 2007 as I much prefer Lowe’s over HD overall.
nfletcher2
That is very true. I would not shop HD unless they sold Milwaukee. The HD in my area is horrendous for support. If I have questions, I go to Lowe’s. If I need Milwaukee , I go to Lowe’s.
Also, HD doesn’t really have a good price match policy. I was there purchasing the M18 Fuel Sawzall (tool only) and found it on Amazon, sold by Amazon, significantly cheaper. I inquired about price matching and was first informed they do not price match from online. Then they said they would price match online if it was sold at Lowe’s or Menards. Funny because neither of those sell Milwaukee.
Stuart
I simply don’t have access to the type of data that would enable me to agree with or argue against that.
But I can tell you that I remember claims of Milwaukee catching up to Dewalt with respect to sales or market share. I don’t remember if this was USA-specific or not, and I can’t find any hard evidence of these claims.
Damian
Hoping Milwaukee comes out with a space heater like the Ridgid branded one.
Nicholas Thomas Ranella
My local HD clearanced out the super hogs in my store, somebody above mentioned that it’s about 3-4 years old. I can see something comparable to the DEWALT FlexVolt. Hopefully some new m18 led stick lights.
Andrew
Next prediction: More like Hitachi 18/36V, but with one extra option: the biggest battery will be 2S2P with 20 cells and be 16Ah at 18V and 8Ah at 36V. More power than Flexvolt, less cumbersome than Makita, remains backwards compatible.
SurvivalSpec
I have hopes that Milwaukee has an answer to DEWALT’s Portable Power Station, which in my opinion, is THE best tool available on the cordless market. Milwaukee is an excellent quality tool manufacturer having proven they can make a globally manufactured tool that can meet and even exceed domestic made tools. An X-2 system would be great or a 12 Ah battery possibly multivolt as well. Back to reference the Portable Power Station, Milwaukee could go further with innovation by including a DC outlet, true AC modulation, and a solar option for off the grid recharges. Milwaukee could go so many ways, it’s exciting to see what they have coming.
Chip
I started in 2004 with DeWalt for the impact,and grinder all the way up to 2014.
Next was Milwaukee for the only 7 1/4 saw(and yes I had the 36v DeWalt circa 2006 ish).
Now am switching to Makita,blower, chainsaw, Trac saw,and miter saw so far.
I buy for the available tool first,then for the power.
Was waiting for Milwaukee gen2 leaf blower (November),then noticed Makita was rated better on social media.
Meanwhile the chainsaw came out+ the Trac saw….and despite makita having less runtime with only 5ah batteries..the power difference between the 2 brands 10 in miter saw is staggering.
Timing of price, availability,and more power in the same tools made my choice.
Milwaukee has had very few industry tool leaders (sawzal,and 1/2 impact) is all I can remember for very long…not counting their plumbing tools .
They have to somehow compete in power with DeWalt,and the other companies using x2’s.
Sam Spade
Hmmm, the quiet elephant in the room is that Milwaukee already has a higher voltage system that they’re phasing out. Too bad there was no forward-thinking in marrying the connectors for the 28 and 18 volt systems for compatibility and that would give them an easy foothold back into the higher voltage Market
Daniel
Would be awesome to see a Milwaukee rebar tier!
Michael
I guessing we see a M-18 power station. (I’d be awesome if it was based off of their 6 place sequential charger with an option to run off of 4-6 batteries.)
With a 6 battery setup you’ve basically got 108v dc available. You could almost convert that directly to A/C. If they made the output 2000w it’d be able to stand in as an emergency power supply.
Make it a charger too and you’re off to the races. The thing would be terribly convenient for all sorts of applications.
That and an M-18 portable air compressor. Maybe a 1.5 or 2 gallon with 1.5 to 2 CFM at 90psi. (Basically the main tool I’d be looking for if I didn’t have a portable A/C power source.)