Milwaukee’s new tool media events always leave an impression on me, as I see what the brand has been up to and learn a little about what they’re doing.
I found myself thinking about the competition between Dewalt and Milwaukee tool, but also about how my feelings and perceptions about the brands have changed over the years.
Dewalt and Milwaukee Tools have both been releasing steady streams of new tools, and that momentum doesn’t seem to be slowing down any time soon. The two brands are fierce competitors in several markets – cordless power tools, hand tools, tool storage, and others, and as each spreads into additional markets (such as personal protective equipment) that competition will only grow.
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Today, I found myself thinking about the different paths the two brands are on, and how they’re different.
Some Background Information
Dewalt, as you may already know, is a Stanley Black & Decker company. Milwaukee Tools is a TTi company, and is also considered the parent of Empire Level, Stiletto, and Imperial Blades.
Read More: Who Owns What? A Guide to Tool Brands and Their Corporate Affiliations
We have posted quite a bit about both brands over the years, and with reader questions, requests, and tips steadily hitting my inbox, there’s always plenty more to talk about.
See our Dewalt Tools Coverage | See our Milwaukee Tools Coverage
In the past few years, Stanley Black & Decker has purchased new brands, notably Craftsman, Irwin, Lenox, a partial share in MTD (outdoor power equipment), and Waterloo (metal tool storage), and Milwaukee Tools has acquired Empire Level and Imperial Blades.
I went to my first Dewalt media event back in 2010, and my first Milwaukee media event in 2012. I believe I have been to 5 Dewalt new tool media events in total, not counting 2 Stanley Black & Decker half-day events, and 5 Milwaukee NPS media events. I have a strong fondness for both brands, but feel that my understanding of Milwaukee Tool has grown to be far deeper.
What’s Happening in Cordless Power Tools?
Both brands have been pumping out new cordless power tools. Dewalt has been filling in holes in their cordless platforms, and also introducing updated models and specialty solutions.
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New Dewalt Cordless Power Tools
Some new additions to Dewalt’s cordless platforms include:
- 20V Max Heat Gun
- 12V Max Xtreme Subcompact Cordless Line
- 60V Max FlexVolt Blower
- 20V Max Atomic Cordless Line
- 20V Max Fiber Cement Shears
- 20V Max Dual Switch Band Saw
- 20V Max electrical cable stapler
Dewalt also added a couple of new cordless woodworking-focused power tools earlier this year, such as a sander, router, and jig saws.
Some tool designs, components, and know-how are shared with and by other Stanley Black & Decker brands, and this has become more obvious in recent years. For example, when Dewalt developed new nailers, did they start from scratch, or did they build upon Bostitch know-how? Dewalt cordless nailers then preceded Bostitch’s.
What’s next for Dewalt? It seems that their immediate focus will be on their FlexVolt cordless line, as well as the new 20V Max Atomic and 12V Max Xtreme SubCompact sub-brands.
New Milwaukee Cordless Power Tools
Here are some of Milwaukee’s more recent cordless power tool releases and announcements:
- M12 Fuel cordless installation drill/driver
- M12 Fuel right angle die grinder
- M18 Threaded rod cutter
- M18 Fuel rear-handle circular saw
- M18 router (details coming soon)
- M12 Surge driver (details coming soon)
- M12 motor-driven torque wrench (details coming soon)
- M18 Fuel 12″ cordless miter saw (details coming soon)
Milwaukee continues to expand their M12 cordless power tool lineup, their M18 cordless power tool lineup, their M18 High Output tools, and also RedLithium USB, which powers their personal lighting products, digital level, and heated gloves.
They are deepening the breadth of their existing product categories, and also reaching deeper into new markets. There is also continued focus on cordless solutions for electrical, plumbing, and mechanical trades.
Their decisions are interesting to follow. At the moment, there are 3 cordless air compressors on the market – Dewalt FlexVolt, Ridgid, and Ryobi. One would expect to see Milwaukee pursue this tool category as well, and it might be something they are working on, but they have instead announced updated nailers and new framing nailers. I have found Milwaukee’s release strategies to be logical and sensible.
Both brands are actively working on new cordless products, and are expanding their cordless platforms strategically with no sign of slowing down. It seems to me that Milwaukee is very focused on converting users. At the moment, Dewalt seems very focused on brand-building, given the emergence of Atomic and Xtreme Sub-Comapct sub-brands.
Milwaukee is actively expanding their headquarters in Wisconsin. As mentioned, I have been there 5 times, and each time there is a new wing or building to explore. There are more people, and more activities, and it all happens under one figurative roof.
Milwaukee is improving existing products, innovating with new ones, and pressing forward, and to be honest, I don’t see Dewalt matching that momentum. Dewalt’s momentum might have been impacted by Stanley Black & Decker’s acquisition of the Craftsman brand, which might have required some talent and resources to be diverted. The launch of new Atomic and Xtreme SubCompact brands does give me optimism, however, that Dewalt is readying to resume the charge. Dewalt and Milwaukee are fierce competitors, and neither can afford to give up any ground.
The question is this: As Stanley Black & Decker grows its Craftsman brand presence at Lowes and Amazon, will that take resources away from Dewalt?
Milwaukee Tool has been growing and bringing on new talent. Has Dewalt? Right now, which brand has the greater capacity for new cordless power tool development and innovations? As mentioned, I don’t know the Dewalt side of things anymore, and are unable to answer the question.
What’s Happening in Hand Tools?
Milwaukee came out with new rafter squares. Dewalt has new nail pullers and sledge hammers.
Milwaukee continues to expand and update their selection of tape measures, and is now expanding their mechanics hand tools to include breaker bars, 1/2″ drive tools and sockets, and open stock SKUs. We talked about their ratchets being available for individual purchase earlier this year.
Dewalt seems to have been taking fewer risks and doesn’t seem to be expanding their selection of hand tools very steadily anymore. Milwaukee has a maturing lineup, and although we didn’t see many new additions this year, I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw a bigger expansion in 2020.
Dewalt does have new licensed products, such as their painter’s tool and a selection putty knives, drywall taping knives, and mud pans.
I can’t explain why Dewalt never officially announced or advertised their USA-made screwdrivers. Meanwhile, Milwaukee answers users’ requests for larger markers, and you can be sure they’ll spread word about them.
Milwaukee’s hand tool line has very many holes. At NPS19, I was talking to two product representatives about tools I’d like to see the brand come out with. My needs are not always met by tools designed for general construction tasks and applications, and I pointed out that many of Milwaukee’s demos and test set-ups couldn’t be assembled by Milwaukee hand tools alone. Milwaukee doesn’t yet offer hex keys of any kind, ball pein hammers, dead blow mallets, or precision pliers (aside from their flush-cutting pliers).
Milwaukee doesn’t want to be “me too,” but there are still tools they could introduce to fill some large holes in their product selection. Milwaukee has been focusing on problem-solvers and frustration-easers, and it’s a sound strategy, but one that ensures that users must continue shopping other brands to fill in holes.
Dewalt can easily push into nearly any hand tool category they want to. However, Dewalt seems to more strongly focus on prospective sales. Will they launch new hand tools if they can’t put inventory in every Home Depot or Lowes store? Yes, I’ve seen some examples of this. But I do think they have become very cautious when it comes to hand tool designs and distribution. They can create all kinds of Dewalt-branded hand tools. But does it make sense to?
If you want a USA-made adjustable wrench, combination wrenches, hammers, or pliers, Stanley Proto’s product catalog already has all that. So why slap the Dewalt name onto it? Will retailers put those pricier USA-made tools on their shelves?
My point is this – there is a lot that Milwaukee can do that Dewalt can match.
Stanley Black & Decker spent nearly $2 billion to acquire Irwin and Lenox brands, and $900 million on the Craftsman brand. We have not yet seen what changes these acquisitions will mean for the Dewalt brand. More plumbing tools? Threading tools? Hacksaws and cutting tools? Pliers?
Stanley Black & Decker announced to investors that they are building a new factory in Texas. What new tools will we see come from there?
Milwaukee works with outside partners to manufacture some of their hand tools, and their overall pace seems to be steady. But, their in-house and partner capabilities don’t match Stanley Black & Decker’s, at least in terms of breadth. Milwaukee does not seem to be focusing on closing that gap. In many instances, except for tape measures, utility knives, and other examples, Milwaukee is going after other brands’ market share, and not necessarily Dewalt’s.
Dewalt can potentially tap into Stanley Black & Decker’s much larger pool of resources and capabilities. Capital investments could potentially benefit multiple brands and land new tools at multiple retailers and online dealers over time. For instance, Dewalt’s USA-made screwdrivers resemble Proto and Mac screwdrivers, and could have been manufactured at the same facility. Dewalt would have an easier time launching other USA-made tools than Milwaukee, such as premium ratchets, because they have pre-existing infrastructure and know-how.
The difficulty is that both brands are more minor players in many hand tool markets. They’ve gained market share, but other brands pose very strong competition.
If you ask me, I don’t think Milwaukee is done with their brand acquisitions. Brands that used to supply Sears and Craftsman are surely hurting a bit, and could present good partnership opportunities at the least. I wouldn’t be surprised if Milwaukee expanded their brand portfolio again soon.
Milwaukee has invested in their Empire Level brand, which is now producing their new USA-made Milwaukee layout tools, and that’s separate from progress made by Empire with their own products.
If they wanted to, Dewalt can adapt designs from Proto, Mac, Facom, Sidchrome, and Stanley to counter nearly any hand tool category that Milwaukee sought to enter.
Milwaukee can also work with their factories and partners to launch new tools.
Can Milwaukee bring hex keys to market? T-handle drivers? P-handle? Bit sockets? Possibly. Will they? Do hex bit sockets fit into their roadmap for mechanics tools? If hex bit sockets don’t fit into Dewalt’s product plans, that’s fine, you can still find them in Proto and Mac catalogs.
While Milwaukee has been expanding further into mechanics hand tools – excuse me, transportation maintenance tools – there are very many holes left for them to fill. Some of Dewalt’s sibling brands under Stanley Black & Decker ownership can allow for rapid expansion of Dewalt offerings, but it’s unclear as to whether there’s enough capacity to do so. Building up Craftsman hand tool inventory has to have pushed Stanley Black & Decker production capabilities to their limits, and I simply don’t know if there’s any room for any more tools to be fit into their current efforts. I am not very well versed in manufacturing, but I don’t imagine that there is equipment sitting idle and waiting for the order to being producing more tools.
Update: Dewalt’s mechanics tool lineup is actually more extensive than I had remembered – here is their latest catalog (PDF). However, their availability is not widespread. For instance, not many dealers carry Dewalt’s crowfoot wrench set, model DWMT75425OSP, or their external Torx socket set, model DWMT75424OSP. These tools were showed off at Dewalt’s last media event in 2017. If there’s a market for these tools, how quickly can Dewalt relaunch them?
At Milwaukee’s recent NPS19 media event, they discussed how their tools are uniquely designed, and criticized lick-and-stick rebranding. One example being passed around included Channellock retaining ring pliers next to like-designed Gearwrench pliers. Honestly, I don’t see the problem there. The two brands serve different markets, and the tool itself (I own one) is okay. Milwaukee meanwhile doesn’t offer any hand tool solution for working with retaining rings.
With cordless power tools, both brands are pushing the boundaries. With hand tools, they have to fight to enter or expand into crowded markets.
What’s Happening in Tool Storage?
Milwaukee will be coming out with a new smaller-sized tool storage cabinet (I believe it’s 36″ wide). Milwaukee and other brands are limited in the sizes of steel storage products they can import, due to Waterloo’s FTC complaint and the tariffs the investigation resulted in. Surprisingly, we haven’t seen any new Waterloo-made Dewalt steel tool storage products, or at least I haven’t seen this yet.
So, because of the tariffs, we’ve seen an increase in the size of Milwaukee’s tool storage combos, and in their price tags. If you recall, there are certain specifications that allow tool storage products to be exempt from the tariffs, but meeting and exceeding that criteria also greatly add to production costs and retail pricing.
Milwaukee has been expanding their lineup of Packout tool boxes and has many plans for future expansion.
Read Also: Milwaukee Packout Modular Tool Box Intro, in Photos
Dewalt has their ToughSystem tool storage line, and also their line of smaller and less expensive Tstak tool storage products.
Just talking about tool boxes (Milwaukee also has Packout-compatible tool bags, backpacks, and a cooler), the Milwaukee Packout system already rivals Dewalt’s ToughSystem selection. Dewalt might not feel the heat yet, since their products are lower priced. But, now with a new rolling dolly, mounting plate, and open tool tote, Milwaukee’s system continues to grow fast. We asked the product manager about what’s coming next, and were told to expect even more new Packout tool storage products and accessories next year.
Milwaukee Packout must have caught Dewalt off-guard. Milwaukee and their partner had to adjust to much higher demand than anticipated, and are now on a roadmap of steady expansion. It’s unclear as to what Dewalt might be able to do to challenge Milwaukee and prevent them from claiming greater market share. The success of Milwaukee Packout could get users more accustomed to premium pricing, which opens doors for Dewalt to consider more premium tool storage accessories or additions to the ToughSystem lineup.
Overall
There are areas where Dewalt and Milwaukee Tool are not evenly matched. Dewalt has corded miter saws and table saws. Milwaukee does have corded miter saws, but when’s the last time you saw one?
Milwaukee has been accelerating their efforts, year after year. It seems to me that Dewalt’s pace has slowed down a little, and if so, perhaps it can be explained by Craftsman’s relaunch and expansion efforts.
When you look at what the brands have released in recent years, how much more could they really race to develop? Both Dewalt and Milwaukee have been updating and innovating.
That Stanley Black & Decker appears to be able to focus some of their efforts across brands is not a disadvantage, but an advantage when all things add up. But this time of year, after NPS, where Milwaukee publicly lays out their plans for the next 6+ months of tool releases and privately shares hints about longer-term plans, a couple of readers always ask “what is Dewalt coming out with,” and our only possible reply is a shrug of the shoulders.
If I had to sum up my feelings, and again keep in mind these are just my opinions, I’d say that Milwaukee seems to have greater momentum in cordless power tool, hand tool, and tool storage spaces. However, Dewalt’s efforts are not at all stagnant, as they are still launching new cordless power tools and hand tools each year.
What will happen if Stanley Black & Decker focuses more of their outdoor power tool efforts into Dewalt 20V Max and FlexVolt systems? Lessons learned from developing new Craftsman solutions, in-house or with partners, can potentially result in Dewalt launching a second-generation cordless mower before Milwaukee announces their first.
In cordless power tools, both brands are doing well, although I feel I have much more information and a better understanding about Milwaukee Tool’s efforts and direction than Dewalt’s. Competitively, Dewalt seems to have slowed down, but it could be temporary. Or, it could be a matter of perception, with Dewalt’s pace only seeming to have slowed compared to Milwaukee’s.
They’re both breaking new ground and improving upon past releases, at their own paces.
Both brands are still increasing their presence in the hand tools market. The releases are intermittent and unexpected, but steadily so. Milwaukee practices their philosophy of disruption innovation, striving to make waves in every product category they enter. They start with an exploratory entry into a particular product category, such as by introducing a small ratchet and socket set, and before you know it, they have 1/4″, 3/8″, and 1/2″ sets, open stock, accessories, and a roadmap to expand their footprint in the mechanics hand tools market. This year, they’ll be participating at SEMA, an automotive tool and product trade show.
Dewalt identifies a market need, or opportunities to fill shelves at home centers, and attacks it with the full might of Stanley Black & Decker’s resources. Do they need an updated lineup of hammers? *BAM*, Dewalt launched 14 new tools. 10 more new hammers followed half a year later. They can quickly introduce new hand tools, such as adjustable wrench 2-packs.
Both brands have room to grow.
If Dewalt doesn’t focus more energies on portable tool storage expansion, they’ll find themselves having to play catchup with Milwaukee.
It seems easy to compare the competition between these brands in a Coke vs. Pepsi manner, but the fact of the matter is that Dewalt and Milwaukee are completely different animals. Still, Milwaukee Tool is a much bigger company now than they were even a few years ago. Has Dewalt grown in that time? Stanley Black & Decker has, but what does that mean for Dewalt?
What’s your take on the competition between these two prominent tool brands?
red92s
While the addition of open stock orders for sockets is nice, I would love to see Milwaukee offer sockets sets (sans ratchets). I really like the non-rolling design, but today they can only be purchased in cased sets with ratchets. It’ll be prohibitively expensive to piece a set together via open stock, and like most tool nerds I’ve already got a stable of ratchets I’m quite fond of. It’s frustrating that you can buy the ratchets individually, and the sockets individually, but not a set of sockets . . . since they are the really differentiator in the line.
Glenn
40 Year contractor and i have to say i have almost every brand cordless tool in my now 2 man company. 4 or 5 years ago i was loading more up on Milwaukee but lately Dewalt. Dewalt definitely has my attention and because there were 6amp battery giveaways with purchase, i just can’t seem to kill those batteries. Also I’m very pleased with the XR line. I’ve been loving the combination of light weight, compactness and ruggedness. But every brand has something that pleases me. On corded i just love the Bosch table saw, I’ve been bringing it to job sites to make cabinets onsite for as long as it’s been available and there laser tape measure is awesome. I love my Makita saws from the track saw to there hand never without them. My metabo nibblers are a must. So on and so on, but every person has there just right tool, but it seems it comes down to batteries. If you have alot of one kind of battery over the next your nor gonna spend hundreds replacing them like I’ve done so many times in the past
Rob Allan
Milwaukee has been around forever. As a HD mechanic I have only ever used Milwaukee mag drills for serious work. Nobody else even makes a model. They have real tools for real tradesmen. They have branched out with the new lawn and garden stuff. But for the most part dewalt appears suited to consumers and construction trades. They both make great tools and some shitty ones but actual market segment groups are different
fred
I’ve bought corded mag drills (mostly Houghen) ever since I bought into a metal and pipe fabrication business back in the 1970’s. Milwaukee does seem to offer more cordless models – but they are not exclusive. Fein (they bought out Jancy – Slugger) offer a few cordless models too.
Altan
As Fred said, Fein does, much better than Milwaukee one I would say. Fein tools are mostly made in Germany and are very durable.
Steven
I personally dont think its pertinent to expand your tool library under a single brand monopoly. Milwaukee makes some great tools….some hand tools, not so much.
I like to keep my cordless line the same, but hand tools I will cherry pick from the best. Milwaukee/dewalt dont “need” hex keys when other companies have it covered a million times over.
Perhaps you have a brand OCD that puts me to shame hahah. I might need to step up my game
Stuart
Even if there are plenty of brands that already offer excellent quality hex keys, there can be a benefit to users to have a Milwaukee option also available.
Let’s say you know nothing about hex keys. Bondhus? Wera? PB Swiss? Husky? HDX? Eklind? Wiha? What’s the difference between all these brands?
Looking at Amazon, there are now so very many straight-from-China brands I’ve never heard about.
So do you take your chances and buy according to price?
If you have used other Milwaukee hand tools, say their screwdrivers, and have had good experiences, you now have a baseline expectation for how their hypothetical hex keys will perform. You don’t have to guess as much, spend time researching, or take the risk at making an uneducated choice.
Consider “prick punches,” a type of tool I haven’t discussed at length on ToolGuyd yet. Prick punches are like center punches but more used to locate holes for layout purposes than to create a dimples for starting drill bits.
While I haven’t posted much about prick punches before, it might still be of value to readers.
Sometimes I get questions about items that aren’t tools, and I presume it’s because those readers know what my typical criteria and judgement standards and want the same applied to those off-topic categories.
Think about the barbecue sauce section at the supermarket. You need 12 bottles of sauce for a school or work picnic event. You know Heinz from ketchup, and so you try the Heinz barbecue sauce. It’s a low-risk choice.
Wayne R.
The BBQ sauce analogy is interesting in the ways it doesn’t work: These days, with our little portable opinion terminals (smartphones), there’s little reason to enter any situation completely unprepared.
Additionally, a tool is something an individual is likely going to keep a long time & use personally. BBQ sauce for others is probably a lot lower risk choice as it’s far more ephemeral – but just as easy to check on-line, too.
In that light, I’m not going to pick up a hand tool from a power tool maker just because of a logo, though for the person choosing a no-name crescent wrench versus Big Red or Big Yellow, that falls into the Heinz sort of no-brainer, I guess.
It also goes toward the “why does every car maker make their own SUV/pickup/4×4”, and why does Jeep make little cars? There’s only so many highly skilled car designers & makers out there, it seems like broad industrial dilution to do all that duplication.
One view of Milwaukee & Dewalt is that they’re battery & charger companies – and their spread of devices comes *from-the-batteries*. Adding hex keys (as an example) to that seems like a dumb addition, to me.
Stuart
Perhaps something like hex keys might be a less than ideal example, but it relates to the question about where Milwaukee might stop in the expansion of their mechanics tools.
Milwaukee doesn’t need to come out with hex keys, specifically. That’s just an example of a hole in their catalog that they could potentially fill.
What about hammers and mallets? Talking about automotive maintenance and repairs, users sometimes need a good dead blow mallet. Maybe they need a ball pein hammer or drilling sledge.
Milwaukee has in the past made limited entry into specific hand tool markets, but have broadened their selection in following years. Presently, are there any holes in their selection of pipe wrenches? What about their screwdrivers? “Transportation Maintenance” is a very vast product category. They have combination wrenches and ratcheting combination wrenches. What about offset wrenches? Palm ratchets? Some socket sets have extensions and universal joints, but what about wobble extensions? Bit sockets? 12pt sockets? Stubby ratchets? How completely will Milwaukee seek to fulfill the needs of these users?
A few years ago, there were folks who questioned whether a power tool brand needed to come out with their own utility knives and tape measures.
Now, they own an entire brand of layout and measuring tools.
They made an introduction and went from there. What I like to think about is “where will they go from here?”
If Milwaukee is serious about making even stronger and broader gains in the mechanics hand tool space, or general MRO/industrial industry, they might 1) start planning for it with small releases, allowing them to test the waters but also learn a lot in the process that can aid future tool development, 2) consider potential acquisitions or partnerships, or 3) strategically limit the scope of the expansion within set bounds.
So, with regard to dead blow hammers, they might 1) develop a 2 lb dead blow mallet (which might or might not follow through to production and launch), 2) purchase a striking tool company (such as Nupla), or arrange for an OEM-type of arrangement, or 3) decide that they simply won’t offer dead blow hammers.
If Dewalt wanted to come out with dead blow hammers, they can make some customizations to Stanley Compo-Cast hammers and that’s about it.
Dewalt cannot quite counter all of Milwaukee’s advances, and vice versa, but other Stanley Black & Decker brands might. Milwaukee now has a good selection of pipe wrenches. Will we see Dewalt pipe wrenches? Probably not, but Stanley Black & Decker spent nearly $2 Billion on Irwin and Lenox brands and might want to invest in further developing Irwin’s Vise Grip pipe wrench product family.
ChrisP
Hart, a TTI company, already have a good range of hammers. Think it would be simple to move into this market with the Milwaukee brand?
Altan
Hex keys are dead for me, I use 1/4″ hex shank screwdriver bits instead, Hex keys (Allen keys) are not comfortable to use and it is the matter of time also. You can use cordless screwdriver or a screwdriver bit handle to use them. I don’t understand why people are still looking for hex keys.
Corey Moore
This, I couldn’t agree more. Wiha’s 50pc Terminator bit set has a bunch of metric and imperial hexes, and I use them endlessly, rather than fishing out my L’s or an Allen key.
Walter
I switched to Milwaukee 4 years ago and never looked back. The m18 multi master is garbage however.
Julian Tracy
Dewalt and Milwaukee certainly have the majority of trades people converted or already bought in, but I’m firmly in Makita’s camp.
Though they haven’t gone as deep (if at all) into speciality tools like pro pex, grease guns, etc, the Makita lineup is still far deeper than either the red or yellow lineup for a general contractor or woodworker.
I have absolutely no need for Makita drywall knives or pliers or sockets, but certainly they could pickup their slack in cordless finish guns and framing nailers. But overall, Makita is front and center in dust collection solutions, cement tools and they’ve had the oddball super handy tools the yellow and red lineup haven’t even thought of yet or are only just now starting to produce like Makita’s super slim and shallow head right angle impact driver as one example.
To those in the know ( smarter than the average contractor), the other brands have basically been playing catch up with Makita’s tool offerings for the last 5-7 years.
And personally, I’m a big fan of Makita’s approach to the higher power tools with their x2 lineup. I can have the exact same batteries for all my tools. Don’t have to buy the half a loaf of bread sized Dewalt Flexvolt batteries or the 9.0 or 12.0 monster Milw. Batteries in addition to the standard sized 3.0/4.0/5.0 batteries.
Sure, the yellow and red approaches perhaps can supply even higher power tools, but at some point the tech that’s out there now has fully supplanted any need for corded.
As a part-time (some tools) Dewalt user, I’ve found that in general, Makita tools have a higher grade fit and finish and build quality as well.
Carlos
Makita 18v and Milwaukee 12v is the way to go
Andrew
I agree with the x2 platform. For the vast majority of what I do I just dont need that kind of power. A corded miter saw is cheaper and does the job for me. A trim saw will do 99% of what I need. With that said I dont need 30 impact options that really just seem to be there to say they offer an expansive lineup just like I do nt need makita drill bits to match my makita drill. Tool storage, well makita blue, green, whatever, is ugly to me so something else there. I just like their tools, find them comfortable, and reliable. As a home banger on the cars I do like Milwaukees new sockets but eh, ill stick with my old usa craftsman. I am jealous over the competition nailers though. For a major competitor in the market its kind of embarrassing how bad and far behind their nailers are.
Stuart
It’s even more complicated when you bring Makita into the discussion.
As far as I am aware, Makita USA is mainly a marketing and customer support entity for Makita, with tools being designed and developed in Japan. Makita market share is larger overseas than it is here. If accurate, that’s not bad, and there are other companies that seem to operate in a similar manner, but it makes it even harder to track the company’s movements and predict their future path.
I have been in communication with Makita USA’s communications contacts, but I have never spoken to a product manager or engineer there, something I have done countless times with Dewalt, Milwaukee, and other brands. My insights into the company are probably not any better or deeper today than 10 years ago.
oflannabhra
Makita also complicates things by being independent.
Advantages could be: only having to support a single brand, ability to focus on a single segment (power tools).
Disadvantages could be: not having the enormous resources other conglomerates have, being less focused on NA market (at least this would be a disadvantage in my eyes, as I’m in the US).
I see hand tools mostly as a distraction for these companies/brands. I understand why they are doing it, and brands are a powerful force to align on, but conglomerates like Stanley Black & Decker don’t give me much hope for innovation.
From a brand perspective, I think that Milwaukee is really on a roll in North America. I think they have a huge advantage in momentum there, on top of momentum in their 18V and 12V tool releases. TTI seems to be putting a lot of wood behind the Milwaukee arrow.
Corey Moore
Could you elaborate as to what “far deeper” includes? They had that cordless router before rigid, I recall that, and their corded hypoids+routers were common with framing and carpentry/finish work, but I’ve never worked for/with/met/seen a GC or carpenter that had a preference for Makita cordless. I’ve owned and used a few, and really liked them. The nifty battery bumper/spacer thingies are neat, but for fit and finish, I don’t know that they stand out from Dewalt and Milwaukee in any particular way. Makita tools are great, but I want to hear your detailed take on why they’re so superior to what the less intelligent, average contractors are attracted to?
XRH07
I’d add that Makita’s use of Omron trigger switches is a pretty nice advantage for overall fit and finish. Especially over whatever Dewalt/Milwaukee use.
I say this because Dewalt has so many tools with mushy forward/reverse selectors. The DCD996 & DCF887 I bought for my dad are this way and the ones I’ve had in my hands at Home Depot feel the same way. So I’d have to wager it’s a feature rather than a bug.
Makita’s approach with Omron has 2 other advantages that I’ve seen in my power tool repair ventures:
-The switch isn’t embedded into the ESC like Dewalt & Milwaukee, which means that replacing a switch in a drill or impact driver doesn’t amount to you buying a $90+ motor/switch assembly. With most Makita impacts & drills you unplug the switch and drop a new one in.
-Omron switches incorporate a bellows to help limit dust/dirt intrusion. So they are pretty much designed to last.
Not that Makita doesn’t fall flat elsewhere. They like to overuse and over detail a lot of their tools with TPE. We have a couple XDT14s where the TPE around the motor housing and end cap started peeling where the TPE became real fine and wasn’t anchored into the tool body.
This is something I like about Milwaukee because they limit it to the handle + a large uniform piece of TPE on the end caps & around the motor housing.
Corey Moore
That’s an awesome thing to learn, that I had no idea about. Thanks!
MichaelHammer
I have invested heavily in Makita. Their tools are decent, but I wouldn’t say they are any better than any of the tops brands available. They have longevity, I’ll give them that. Ultimately I bailed on the brand because their batteries absolutely suck. With cordless power tools it’s all about the battery. When you boil it down, what you’re really buying, what you’re investing in, is a battery platform. Makita’s got no power.
Jim Felt
“Makita’s super slim and shallow head right angle impact driver as one example.”
No kidding. We’ve had three I believe iterations of these wonderful if only occasionally but intensely used tools. Never once a failure. Just a “failure” of battery technology as time marches on.
Julian Tracy
Makita’s cordless x2 10” miter saw completely replaces a corded model for me. It’s smooth, accurate and as powerful
As any corded mitersaw; or at least enough to where it can replace it for me.
Mitersaw and tablesaw power is completely relative to the proper blade being used for the task at hand too though.
Corey Moore
Great write up, Stu? Speaking to tool storage, in my opinion Milwaukee makes a great system, but Dewalt is the winner hands down with their dolly and the toughbox. It was refreshing to see that trolly come out for Milwaukee, but that not going to let someone wheel around a packout stack across a fresh ground construction site, thats going to be an indoor only option. And speaking of stacks, having to unstack to reach tools/materials in the bottom or middle of said stack is a huge disadvantage compared to the Dewalt dolly, which also functions as a real dolly and can carry buckets/sacrete/non brand specific boxes underneath your tools and stuff. Finally, while they’re far less common to see, the toughbox is simply put, an outstanding supplement to the tough system. Since getting my 60″, storage and travel of all my tools/gear has been orders of magnitude easier, and more secure. I’ve got a deep tough system box clipped to the top of a tough system 2 drawer on the floor to keep most hand tools, my table saw on the floor in the opposite corner with harness and underground PPE, the center filled typically like any gang box with a medium-ish pile of most used power tools, and then 3 tough system totes sliding on the the rails of the top section of the gang box- one full of batteries and chargers, one full of bit indexes, sockets, blades, just general accessories, and a third that holds whatever I’m using daily, along with some more sensitive instruments I don’t want rattling around a big metal box with 500lbs of industrial tools lol. I can’t adequately explain how much greater it was than I anticipated when I purchased the gang box and it completely assimilated my entire previous collection of tough system boxes. I try my best to avoid polarized opinions, and Milwaukee makes some damn good stuff, packout included to be sure- but as an owner of the full breadth of the tough system, there’s a couple of amazing areas that no other modular system can really answer/compete at present.
Stuart
That’s something I had considered, but there are also advantages to Packout tool boxes over ToughSystem. Before I donated a huge number of ToughSystem tool boxes to the local high school, I had them in side-by-side stacks. How do you access the contents of a ToughSystem tool box that’s 3 units down in a middle stack?
That Packout tool boxes can be stacked and latched together in a forward-to-rear direction is HUGE.
I have been considering switching over some of my Bosch L-Boxx stacks, but there would be huge expense to do so. Packout tool boxes are not inexpensive.
We’re starting to see Packout tool box stacks in large urban centers, in environments that Dewalt’s large carrier dolly might be a bit too wide to easily transverse.
Let’s say that someone needs to bring tools down to a basement. Dewalt’s ToughSystem carrier is not fitting down those stairs and around the bend at the bottom. BUT, both brands do have rolling tool boxes that might.
Even if Milwaukee keeps growing their Packout tool box system, there will still be some pros for going for Dewalt’s ToughSystem lineup instead, depending on the user’s needs. But, having more options, more products, more variety, that increases the chance that Milwaukee will win over more of those users who have different needs or wants than the average user.
I can’t wear standard safety glasses, I need over-the-glasses safety eyewear, which usually means goggles. Milwaukee just came out with 3 different styles of safety glasses, each with clear and shaded lenses. That doesn’t mean squat to me because I can’t wear them, but for discussion purposes I tend to look at what the new products will mean for average users.
Corey Moore
I’m not sure I’m understanding what you mean by front to rear on the packout… You’re referring to their stacking method? And with regard to how I’d access the third box down on a dewalt stack, I would lift its side handles and just pull it off my dolly/wall rack, ignoring the two above it lol I should clarify, as I have pretty much the entirety of tough system, I’m hypothesizing this comparison as a person working with either entire line, building my job trailer or shop. Again, I couldn’t be further from implying that packout is an inferior product, just that considering either complete system, dewalts racking and transport method, and the bulk storage options are much better suited to my needs in a company that runs multiple commercial and industrial building constructions sites across the state. Several of my crew have packout, and they love it, and I recommended it to new hands as a quality option. All of them have grilled me about my dolly and gang box, too though lol Then it’s a conversation about investment and intent, knowing that maybe a third of the guys coming up at any moment will actually continue building up to a storage system and tool collection the size of mine. I have tough system because it came out first, and I count myself fortunate that at present, that initial investment has me in the better system for my needs years later.
Stuart
Sorry, I mean that in my usage, ToughSystem and L-Boxxes have been a slight pain, because you need side access to unlatch them.
ToughSystem boxes are harder to lock/unlock when you have multiple stacks, and so I rarely latched them together. The issue is much bigger with Bosch L-Boxx because they auto-latch when stacked together.
Your use is a perfect example of needs and wants that are better suited by ToughSystem products, I was trying to describe a scenario where it’s not as ideal,.
The two systems are difficult to compare because they’re both very good, but also very different.
A few years ago, the decision was a lot simpler. Now? If someone has the budget for either Packout or ToughSystem modular tool box systems, there’s a lot to think about before deciding.
But, let’s say there are 10 users, 6 with “easy” and common needs and wants, such as related to capacity, portability, and durability, and 4 users were specific needs outside of that. The more products added to the tool box systems, the greater chance that users’ individual needs are met.
For your use, the ability to transport tool boxes on a large carrier with individual mounting rails is a big plus. Another user might want a connectable open tool bag. Someone else might want to mount an organizer flat against a wall or van.
When the ToughSystem tool boxes were first announced, I asked whether there would be an organizer. I was told “no, we already have clear-lid organizer options in other systems, and this small case has removable bins.” (or something to that effect.) Since then, Dewalt has added an organizer. Packout has 4 different options now.
Packout was launched two years ago. What has Dewalt added to their ToughSystem line in that time? A new 2-drawer unit.
There are merits to both systems. But if Dewalt doesn’t start brainstorming and investigating whether there are additional accessories, configurations, or expansion products might serve users’ needs beyond what the core products can do, they’re going to lose a lot of ground to Milwaukee.
What I’m looking at, or at least referring to, are the recent releases, current strengths, and future potential of both systems.
Milwaukee Packout is not going to shut Dewalt out of the market. But, I do believe that more users with average needs and wants are going to be choosing Packout over ToughSystem, which is something I would never have thought two years ago when the system first launched. At that time, Packout looked like a good albeit pricey competitor to ToughSystem. Now, given the path the two portable tool box systems are headed, it seems that Milwaukee’s Packout has the higher ground in more ways than not.
I think that the carrier system, wall mount rack, and lower pricing are definitely in Dewalt’s favors for user that don’t quite need a lot of the unique expansion products found in the Packout line.
If Milwaukee continues to release new Packout products and continues to feature them in promo bundles, Dewalt will have to find a way to respond. Competition is good for users, and so are more options. I really want to see Dewalt pour more energy into active and ongoing ToughSystem product development.
Corey Moore
You’re pretty insightful, Stu lol and your 100% right, of course- Tough system suites my needs perfectly, and I feel compelled to provide my example because those needs are prevelant in a mining town where all the contractors operate similarly. Per my situation, I tire of constantly making space for my guys’ packout in my trailer lol there’s racks right there, buy the cheaper stuff that clips to it haha but for Joe/Jane homeowner fighting for space in a garage, or even smaller contractor operations without fleets and what have you, a quick stack of packout is probably much more efficient than outfitting for the full benefit of tough system that I see.
Rick
I agree with Carlos, Makita 18v and Milwaukee 12v are the way to go
fred
There may be an analogy in tool buying to the phrase “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” . What fits one person’s hands, meets their needs, is best for their work style etc. may not be best for another. When I phased into retirement about 7 years ago – my plumbing business had Makita 18V and Milwaukee M12 cordless tools – but were phasing in Milwaukee M18 and Foreclogic tools . The GC/Remodeling company had mostly Makita 18V tools. The installation part of the cabinet business had a lot of M12 tools. Our metal/pipe fabrication business hardly used any cordless tools other than those we had for shop maintenance.
While I like to think we listened to the input and feedback of the crews who were actually doing the work, my partners and I made the tool buying decisions. I am enough of a realist to think that if we assigned someone else to make the buying decisions – we might have well have had more Dewalt cordless tools.
My take on buying cordless tools for small to medium-sized businesses is that there are reasons to want to stay with as few battery platforms as possible. But they are not so compelling to prevent one from looking at what’s coming down the pike and might make a compelling business case for switching. I see the competition between Milwaukee and Dewalt as a healthy things that can benefit us all – but think we can not dismiss Makita (dare we hope Bosch too) for folks to keep an eye on.
andy
I’m pretty sure I could make the exact same living with either tool brand.
Altan
Partially you are right, but you have to remember we humans are the laziest animals on the earth, why the hand tools are becoming power tools? One of the reasons is that we are lazy by our nature, and another reason is that we want speed and speed brings more money. Another thing is that we humans are getting more stressed compared to the past and looking for more cordless tools instead of corded ones is a way of escaping from the danger caused by stress and not being fully concentrated at work. I always get stressed when I work with corded tools specially saws.
John
This is a very interesting article. Full disclosure I use DeWalt’s 20v line but Milwaukee’s 12v line.
One thing I noticed about this year’s NPS coverage is that there wasn’t much comparison between brands with the M18 tools. This seems like a departure to me, but could probably be explained. I think the hands on demos between Youtube and Instagram will tell that tale anyway. I think the reason this stuck out to me is that a lot of the M18 releases felt like playing catch up. I keep thinking about the rep at NPS either last year or the year before saying that they didn’t want to release tools simply for the sake of releasing them and they would only do so if they could offer something superior. If that mentality still holds why not show it? I think the nailer has a good chance, but otherwise, I’m skeptical. Obviously I wasn’t there so I can’t authority on it, that’s just my opinion on the presentation of a company who definitely cares about presentation.
M12 on the other hand looked great to me. Lots to be excited about there. I have to wonder why Dewalt is even trying to re-enter that market unless they plan on rolling out a bunch of very good tools, very quickly.
aerodawg
If it’s a regular use power tool I’m sold on DeWalt. I’m just waiting on their heat gun to come out to see how it works. Make small electrical repairs away from the house much easier.
I’ve also been well pleased with their 60V OPE. Been using the trimmer for a while and just picked up the new blower. One battery for each gives plenty of power to clean up around my house.
Altan
Thanks for the post, Stuart.
I have emailed Festool and asked them if it is OK with them to share the info in your blog for discussion, waiting for an answer now.
I started to hear from a lot of people in recent years that Milwaukee is a few step higher than DeWALT, I had no idea about Milwaukee tools until 6 months ago then I started to read about their tools, now I see exactly what you mentioned in this post, DeWALT should work on their 60V cordless platform and also 12V cordless platform and definitely on their Toughsystem toolboxes, Toughsystem is a good idea but very incompleted, I wish you had a post just to discuss Toughsystem toolboxes, that would work better.
Corey Moore
Could I inquire as to why you’d classify tough system as incomplete? If you couldn’t tell from my above comments, I’m of quite the opposite opinion lol
Altan
The main reasons I got attracted by Toughsystem tool boxes in the beginning were that they were water proof, dust proof, very strong, lockable and different tools could be stored in same size boxes and storing the boxes were easy then, before DeWALT tools were coming with different size tool boxes and when I wanted to store them in a small storage it was not easy to manage the space properly, but these tool boxes have solved that issue, I like their trolley also, very well made it is, DS100, DS150, DS300, DS400 and DS450 are the best and also their van racking systems, but there are some problems with DS130, DS250, DS290 and DS295, the problem with DS130 is that you can not use 8 yellow container instead of 4, I like the design partially, that it does not have an extra handle on the lid as it is not necessary but I want to use a tool box for tools only or just for accessories, fittings, screws or different things, I don’t like the empty middle part of DS130 which is designed for tools or hand tools and the containers on the sides for fittings or screws. I would go for it if it could accept 8 containers even if it does come with 4 originally and containers are available separately, the problem with DS250, DS290 and DS295 is that they are not lockable, and DS250 is not dust proof/water proof also.
They need to come up with a new one called DS200 which is 200mm in height to store their large accessory cases, they need to come up with Toughsystem version of TSTAK caddy or similar to that which I would say should have a lockable/water proof lid (I would prefer it with a lid)
They need to come up with insert foam for every tool they make to fit Toughsystem toolboxes, or made of solid plastic similar to Makita’s ones, they have made insert foams for a few of their tools and I don’t understand why not for all tools at least all cordless tools. Also the ones they have made are not well designed and lots of space has been wasted which could be used for storing accessory cases or tubes that DeWALT makes. I could have made some photos to explain better but I can’t add it here to show.
There are more things that Toughsystem platform needs, I will write about them later.
Corey Moore
I agree with your assessment of the second generation of what I consider budget boxes, which were marketed closer to what packout decided to emulate with a rolling box, rather than the separate much better dolly (much more expensive, admittedly). I actually don’t own any of the second tier versions of the originals- I’ve got 4 of the smalls, 2 large, 2 xl, 2 totes w/out handle, 1 tote w/handle, 1 original 2 drawer (only box I’ve hated lol) the dolly, the 60″ gang box, 3/4 clear organizers, and some wall rack. While I can understand your annoyance with the second tier boxes wasting space, I’d point out that you don’t have to buy those boxes? When packout came out, wasted space and odd internal shaping was something that prevented me from converting, and a common slight at tough system was that they were “just boxes,” which sounds to be what you’re looking for. To be fair, the split development between tough system and tstak has frustrated me. I’d love those tool caddy frame boxes and a dust collector for tough system. For odd shaped stuff, though. I use the caddies. The lip that’s cut into the front keeps the contents easily accessible even when the box is snapped under another one. I feel like I’m getting sales pitch-esque here, but I can’t help but think in the definition of “incomplete” that packout is less useful in actually using it, and outside of it looking neat all stacked in a corner. The carpenter bags are cool, but I’ve got boxes that keep dust and water out for hand tools. The backpack looks great, but I throw that on my BACK if I’m moving it, or below my dolly, or off the handles. Wall rack is infinitely easier than squaring and individually installing a shelf for each packout. And being able to grab just whatever box I need without unstacking stuff I’m moving around with me cannot be beat. To boot, the accessibility of the front of the tote, even makes grabbing something in a stack much easier. If I stack them, it’s typically drawers on the bottom, totes middle, and something with a lid up top, with a parts organizer snapped to that lid so that it doesn’t affect opening anything. If I swapped everything I have for packout, and extra stuff they have that I don’t, it would still become a much bigger pain in the butt to work with, always stacking and unstacking stuff as opposed to how I can roll now with one giant gang box of all my stuff, then load the dolly and I don’t have to stack or unstack anything until I pack up after shift. I apologise for rambling lol but I know you’re always good for a conversation and I was sincerely curious about your views on the subject.
Altan
It is fine, no worries, I like to dig and read about tools and discuss about. I am quite slow in writing English as it is not my native language otherwise I would write even longer :))))))))))
Stuart
While I am eager to be privy to the discussion you had with them, I am even more eager to see their response to your request. =) If they agree, that’ll fuel some interesting discussions, and if they politely object, it reinforces the point I made in our discussion about the ability (or inability) to successfully solicit product roadmap insights from tool brands.
Altan
As soon as I get an answer I will let you know.
Thanks
The What?
Why is it that everyone thinks that every tool brand should make every type of tool there is? Seriously? What’s wrong with Milwaukee not making a ball pein hammer or hex keys or dead blow? Why should they when there’s more than enough other brands that make these tools? That is the biggest problem with the entire tool industry right now and it’s been a problem for a while. Every brand out there is without a doubt a me too brand. Everybody has been making the exact same shit as everyone else for far too long. As soon as one brand releases something, three more brands will release the same fkn thing in less than a year. They keep releasing the same fkn thing over and over again year after fkn year. So they might add some sort of new technology (that’s rarely groundbreaking) and within a years time 5 more brands are releasing the same thing. How is that innovative or new and improved? There is absolutely zero originality to any of the brands that are sold in stores today. Zero. I have a question. How many tools did you see at the Milwaukee event that aren’t made by anyone else? And what I mean is something that you’ve never seen before. I’ll take a wild guess and say zero. They might manufacture it a little differently than others but they’re all still the same thing that the next guy is making. So how can there be a discussion about Milwaukee vs Dewalt when there’s nothing that really separates them other than the obvious things (brand name, color, ownership) and people’s loyalty to the brand and their opinions. The funny thing is that this is the same exact conversation we had at lunch today except we talked about all brands. And we all came to the same conclusion.
David
I haven’t seen anyone other than Milwaukee make a desil powered impact
fred
Maybe the idea of having a nearly complete line of tools – all under a flagship brand has an appeal to behemoths like SBD and TTI. Brand recognition certainly can sell products. The alternative of having brand differentiation with multiple brands each representing what they do best may be losing its appeal with consolidation in the industry. The Germans seem to be better at keeping smaller more focused companies successful. I don’t think we’ve seen as much consolidation among German toolmakers – and companies like Knipex seem to be “sticking to their knitting” so to speak. Even Bosch who has bought up companies like Dremel, Freud, OTC and Vermont American- doesn’t seem to be compelled to enter every part of the hand tool business. Maybe it has to do with the US market and how the big-box stores assign rack/shelf space – or how their tool buyers negotiate pricing. Of course there will always be a fringe of individual tool buyers who want to be “color coordinated.”
Brand differentiation and real competition among brands – especially if small companies can survive – would seem to better promote innovation. A small company might not have the R&D resources of a Dewalt or Milwaukee – but new ideas might be easier to promote in smaller more nimble and hungrier companies.
Altan
Hi Fred,
Could you please Change your name to “Fred” not “fred”? :))))
Stuart
There have been a couple of Freds over the years, but one and only fred.
Altan
I think you we should name this one Fred the Great, not fred, don’t you agree?!
David
Milwaukee does have hex key tool just saying
Stuart
Hex bit screwdrivers, yes, but that’s not the type that I was thinking of.
The point isn’t about specific tools, I’m just wondering about “completeness factor” tools.
How much expansion will be needed for Milwaukee to satisfy a majority of “transportation maintenance” hand tool needs? Will they go that far? Can they go that far? Dewalt, on the other hand, would have an easier time, given products and needs already served by Proto, Mac, and even Stanley, plus Facom and other SBD brands more prevalent overseas.
fred
In the hand tool business – companies that had a substantial MRO orientation – always seemed to have pretty expansive catalogues of tools.
I’m thinking of folks like Williams – who in their heydays had mechanics tools, plumbing tools, a smattering of trowel trade tools, some carpenter’s tools, some hydraulics and quite a few storage options.
The trend now is that what had traditionally been power tool companies crossing over to manufacture/supply hand tools. With Dewalt – some of that may be re-branding other SBD tools – but they like Milwaukee seem to be adding new items that are different enough to say that they are unique to them.
Gary
Isn’t that supposedly what they’re doing with the Craftsman brand?
Stuart
But not at the quality level I had hoped for.
Julian Tracy
I’ve been with Makita for years, and have always been very anti-multiple battery platforms. But Dewalt’s 20v cordless 7.5” mitersaw is a gem and was easily half the cost of the Makita, probably even less than that.
So the miter saw was first and I’ve added a few of the specialized tools as I see them like:
– cordless fan (much quieter than the Makita version at low speed)
– cordless heavy duty 1/2” impact wrench (I like the 3-speed switch as opposed to the stupid electronic buttons on the Makita)
– cordless air pump
– graco airless sprayer (uses Dewalt batteries)
– multi-tool (the trigger switch and body are so much more ergonomic compared to the Makita option.
– new Brushless Dewalt barrel grip jigsaw
Haven’t bought the jigsaw yet, but I did buy Makita’s LXT barrel grip brushless saw back when it was only available outside the US. It was not suitable for coping and so I sold it, I’m hoping the new Dewalt will work better.
Altan
I have used DeWALT DCS365 (the European version of DCS361) and I must say it is a good tool but for bevel cut it was suffering a bit.
A W
Fantastic post Stuart.
Minor typo: “only possibly reply”.
I think that in the long run, SBDs focus on Crafstman will pay off big, especially if their made in the US hand tools manage to fill the niche of reliable but still affordable. In terms of momentum, I think that’s the biggest thing for SBD right now, and they’re rightly fixated on making sure that launch goes well.
For now, it may be diverting resources away from DeWalt, but with them restarting the 12v product line and sub-branding with Atomic, I think they’re still very committed to expanding on the success of DeWalt.
And I say that a Milwaukee M18 user.
Stuart
Thank you! 3000 words and only 1 apparent typo isn’t bad, right?
I wouldn’t doubt that SBD is committed to continued Dewalt development. What does concern me slightly is whether the new workload will be burdened on existing talent. Craftsman adopters and users are going to expect a steady stream of releases too. If Craftsman is going to be competing against Ryobi in the cordless space, which I would believe both Stanley Black & Decker and Lowes are hoping for, there will have to be constant efforts at growth and development. Some of those efforts can come from past Dewalt, Porter Cable, and Black & Decker designs and engineering work, but there’s going to have to be a lot of new efforts. If the pool of design, engineering, and management associates has not increased, they won’t be able to put the same time and effort into Dewalt developments as they could before the Craftsman acquisition and relaunch.
Milwaukee has been expanding their teams for years. Seasoned power tool designers and engineers don’t just grow on trees, and it takes for more junior associates to learn on the job. Quite frankly, we don’t know what Dewalt has been doing. There haven’t been any announcements of headquarter expansions or hiring efforts. Stanley Black & Decker acquired the Craftsman brand, but I remember being told that they weren’t bringing over Sears associates who had worked with the brand. So, the people responsible for relaunching the brand and all those tools we’ve been seeing had to have largely been from within SBD.
There has not been a lot of activity in Black & Decker or Porter Cable brands in recent years, at least not that I’ve seen. Milwaukee has no reason to slow down their M12, M18, or M18 High Output efforts. Dewalt really cannot risk the potential of lost ground by slowing their 20V Max or FlexVolt efforts. But, Craftsman is also a new platform and there is going to be strong demand, from users, their prime retailer partner(s), and Stanley Black & Decker leadership, for that Craftsman cordless system to grow and thrive.
If some resources are being diverted from Dewalt to fuel Craftsman development efforts, and keep in mind that this is all conjecture, it’s not going to be temporary.
My belief is that some efforts can be jointly managed, such as 12V-class cordless power tools for both brands. Developing say a 12V Max brushless drill for Dewalt and one for Craftsman might save some efforts if done in parallel than at different times or by different teams. But how long will that work for, and for what types of tools?
Stanley Black & Decker has been hiring more people (as suggested by job listings on Indeed and elsewhere), but brands are always hiring. Are they expanding their facilities? We have no way of knowing what’s going on internally, but can watch activity and product launches from the outside.
I have no doubt that Stanley Black & Decker and Dewalt are firmly committed to the continued development and grown of their professional tool brand. But IF they are diverting some resources, or splitting their attention more than before, they stand to lose ground against Milwaukee, who has been growing their dedicated teams over the years.
Matt
I agree Stuart. SBD has a fine line to walk though. You mentioned Craftsman = Ryobi. While for some products, I’m fully on board with that. Others however, I expect far more from Craftsman. I bought into V20 only because of the brushless drill/impact. And the sole reason was I knew they were heavily DeWalt based and I assumed more were coming. I expect that from their core products like impacts, drills and saws. Something like a glue gun or air inflator I can see a Ryobi approach. Being invested in V20 now, I’m really hoping SBD ups their game.
Just looking at youtube videos, most people are looking for Craftsman to compare to DeWalt, Milwaukee and Rigid on core products. The saws and 1/2 inch impact gun for example don’t exactly inspire confidence in V20 though. I’m all for DeWalt… I’m a Craftman guy though and really hope I don’t regret jumping on board with V20 & V60 both. V20 needs a new round of higher quality brushless tools to launch pretty quickly before more people pass on the line altogether. Because that’s definitely happening.
I’d really like to think a company like SBD could do DeWalt/Craftsman they way they should be done pretty easily.
Stuart
I don’t think that Craftsman will compare with Dewalt, Milwaukee, or Bosch. Ridgid? Maybe Craftsman will have a higher tier of cordless power tools that could, but as of now they only have a brushless drill and impact driver that might be up to task.
Sears’ Craftsman C3 line never went up against pro brands’ cordless offerings, and although they did have a Professional cordless line, it was very limited in selection before being discontinued.
Stanley Black & Decker has the capability to produce tools of equivalent quality to Sears’ era Craftsman Professional offerings. Perhaps their new factory in Texas might also be intended for such purposes.
There’s a neat and tidy chart where Stanley Black & Decker shows how they intend to treat the Craftsman brand with respect to their others, and the brand spans nearly the entire length from “Consumer” to “Automotive/Professional,” also including “Tradesman” and “Professional” categories. So far, their first wave of products seem to popular the left half of the chart, with the more professional-grade stuff to come.
https://14cyiuhvcgv.com/how-stanley-black-decker-targets-their-tool-brands-in-2017-and-other-insider-info/%3C/a%3E%3C/p%3E
Matt
Oh, I understand DeWalt is their flagship/Cadillac brand. Craftsman is more Chevrolet.. I don’t expect that to change (although the V60 offerings are definitely top tier). That’s the lawn side though and I actually expected a lot there. Nor do I as a V20 investor expect it to overshadow DeWalt.
I’m just saying there was quite a bit of expectation from many who wanted to give V20 a shot in support of SBD Craftsman after 10 years of ruin by Sears. And when you see what they’re coming from, they were the big names. Sears C3 most certainly wasn’t impressive for most tools. Even as a Craftsman guy I owned just a few. Everything else I ever bought with a battery was Bosch or DeWalt. Even the Ryobi equivalents of many C3 core tools are now brushless though. I’d certainly be thrilled with a true Rigid competitor from V20. I’ll patiently wait as I know they had a lot to do. That chart looks promising actually. A lot of ground there… Thanks!
Jamie
Recently, it seems like Dewalt has been less of an innovative pro-focused brand and more like a pro-sumer brand that’s focused on selling drills at big box retailers.
With the Craftsman acquisition I’m sure that a lot of energy at SBD is being focused on sorting out their various brands and securing contracts with various retailers.
In contrast, I think Milwaukee has done an excellent job of developing new tools that trades people and consumers find appealing.
I think you’ll see a lot of carpenters and framers switch to Milwaukee if their new nail guns can match the performance of pneumatic nail gun. Adding the new “worm drive” 18v saw only sweetens the pot.
fred
Milwaukee also seems to have been first to market (at least in the USA) with some tools for plumbers – like their M12 and M18 PEX expanders and Force Logic press tools. Not surprisingly, Dewalt now has their versions as well – but sometimes “the early bird catches the worm” – and the Milwaukee introductions caught my attention and dollars in my plumbing business .
PHILIP JOHN
I have both dewalt and Milwaukee… if I can pick one tool from each that I feel is superior… it would be … Dewalt 60v flexvolt grinder. The most ergonomic and 6 inch is very versatile. The switch and handle is perfect.
For Milwaukee… it’s the new hi torque impact wrenche… No need for air tools anymore.
Timothy Wiggins
I’m guilty of being a brand loyal customer more often than not. I have a Hitachi compound miter saw and router that I love but when I bought my first Milwaukee tools it was game over. There are some tools Milwaukee doesn’t offer I need to upgrade and I wouldn’t complain if I had to buy another brand for the time being. As a woodworker and avid diy guy Dewalt does have possibly the best benchtop planer on the market. I would like to see Milwaukee compete with them but they definitely will have to make a great benchtop planer to compete with DeWalt. When it comes to a 12″ sliding miter saw Milwaukee’s is nice, it’s the dust collection port on the back I’m not a fan of and hooking it up to a dust collection system in the shop is a no go. DeWalt miter saws are something I’m not a fan of either and Hitachi’s cross capability is lacking severely. As for drills, impact drivers, hand tools and storage I’ll stick to Milwaukee. Their are holes by both companies the other can fill but it also leaves both companies short on possible market opportunities and profits. The warranty alone on Milwaukee vs DeWalt and the fact a Milwaukee warranty service location is only an hour away if needed is a big difference for me as well.
John
A few months ago I was looking into buying air tools and such for my personal shop and work as I’m a mechanic for all levels of on road vehicles as well as off road vehicles and equipment but after an ad popped up showing a battery powered impact (one of the items I needed the most) i figured I’d take a look at them again. Through out my research it just seemed that Milwaukee was out to produce quality products (that’s not to say they haven’t had their failures) and they were the ONLY company at the time that i could find power tools strong enough to do the job I need to get done. I’m not rich by any means and part of the reason I did the battery powered tools over air was the cost… portable air isn’t inexpensive even when you go cheap. So far I’ve not run into anything I wasn’t able to do with the level of tools that I purchased and I was really shocked and extremely impressed when I removed an aluminium bud style wheel with a Milwaukee 1/2″ gun from a dump truck. I was doing it by hand with a 5′ 1″ breaker and still ensured the tire was tight with said breaker bar but the fact that it removed the lug nuts and bells using only the 1/2″ gun… they’ve won my loyalty and I’m growing my Milwaukee stuff still. I’m really really pissed off at Stanley for what they did to craftsman tools, I’ve been a fan since I was able to use tools as I’d lose a tool or break one (seldom had this happen until Stanley) and I could afford to get a new one or warranty it and they were an excellent quality tool for the price. After Stanley took over I purchased 1 set on the way home I hit a speed bump a little to fast and the box come off the floor in the bed of my pickup and when it landed it exploded everywhere. I figured ok it’s Stanley now it should be good maybe just reject box that got threw somehow so I spent $30 on another box (just the box no tools) and that one I’d remove the bottom drawer and the top two would fall down. So i took it back showed them what was going on and traded it for the oldest box they had in stock (pre Stanley take over) the plastic was way thicker and just higher quality all the way around. Then there’s the Stanley craftsman tools… ratchets that don’t work brand new on the shelf the tools look, feel, and break faster then Chinese no name junk! Brand loyalty lost… I’ll never buy another product Stanley has any affiliation with clear on up to mac.
Boggsy
If only one of them could figure out the stair matrix in life. Milwaukee does make a better packout system, and I love the insanely priced electrician totes that mount to half of it… Brilliant. Neither quite do what I want though. Should go with toughsystem, since I have the generator, but nothing mounts on top of it, so you lose any temporary work surface. Maybe if I got the 60v dust collector, I’d consider Tstack. Other than those two (separate system) items, it’s just bins, and wheels, and radios which are a dime a dozen these days (even dust/water rated ones). I’ll figure this out, and build the perfect system. And when I finish it in 20 years, I’ll link you guys! =P
Mark
I’m an unabashed Milwaukee fan, and all my cordless power tools are red. However, I feel the opposite of excited when it comes to their new cordless power tools. Am I the only one that is disturbed by the weight/size of these new cordless tool batteries? I love milwaukee and bought into their platform years ago after using a coworker’s m18 sawsall and seeing the shear power it had in a cordless tool, but if I cant get it done with a 5ah xc battery, I don’t want to do it. I understand the need for those batteries when it comes to stationary tools/vacs/lights, but I truly dont feel like lugging those gargantuan batteries and the weight they add when it comes to a handheld cordless tool. I know that all the tools will run on any battery, but I feel as if they are designing their new tools to work specifically with those monster batteries (or you dont get the gains they are advertising). I feel like I can’t be the only one that feels this way, but sometimes when I read this site I get a little jealous of some of the yellow offerings FWIW.
fritz gorbach
I am a full in dewalt guy for the 20v lineup. Just dont want multiple batteries . that being said, I feel I’d be equally happy with the Milwaukee line.
BUT, and a huge BUT, for Milwaukee, has been repair and customer service. I recently purchased into the 12 volt line to fill some hole. While I mostly love the tools I have, I have had three occasions to call for service or warranty help, and they have all been miserable failures on the part of Milwaukee.
In many years of dewalt 12 volt and 20 volt, I have also had occasions for repair or service, and these have been handled quickly and painlessly.
So as a pro whose time is money, I’ll choose dewalt first every time.