A small box containing Milwaukee M18 batteries and an HD starter kit (thank you Home Depot!) arrived today. After getting over having received a 2-pack of XC3.0 batteries when I thought the packing slip said CP3.0, the new battery we posted about this week, I realized that the on-package advertising made for a good follow-up to recent conversations.
On the package, it says: M18 Everything Fits. Then, there’s a chart showing that as you go from CP to XC to HD battery packs, you get increased power.
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Read Also: CP? XC? HD? Milwaukee M18 Batteries Explained
On the back, there’s a chart, showing a selection of Milwaukee M18 cordless power tools along a line that spans from light demand to heavy demand.
The XC battery is placed in the middle, presumably to indicate that it’s best suited for the middle of the range.
Generally:
The compact battery packs are suited for the lighter demand and more compact tools.
The XC battery packs are suited for all of the mid-sized tools, and can be used with the lighter demand tools. They can potentially be used with the higher demand tools.
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The HD batteries are matched to the heaviest duty tools.
Some are quick to point out that you shouldn’t use the smallest batteries on the largest tools, and that’s true. There are higher demand tools, such as the chain saw (see Ben’s comment here), where the compact battery simply can’t provide enough power for proper operation. It’s uncertain how the new High Output compact battery might change things.
XC battery packs are fairly capable at powering most of Milwaukee’s M18 cordless power tools.
For the heaviest duty tools that were designed with the HD battery in mind, an XC battery won’t provide the same performance, but lighter use of such tools is possible.
Take the Milwaukee M18 Fuel portable table saw, for instance. I was able to cut plywood and 2×4 materials with power provided by an XC5.0 battery. While an HD12.0 battery would have been the best choice, an XC5.0 battery still powered the saw through light cuts. It worked.
Update: Following is a video demo from NPS18, showing performance with an HD12.0 battery and then an XC5.0 battery.
For a light demand tool, you can really use any of the battery packs. For most tools, you should see good performance from an XC battery. But, in a pinch, maybe you can use a compact battery if that’s all you have charged and ready, but it depends on the tool. For the heavy demand tools, you should use an HD9.0 or HD12.0 high demand battery. But, for lighter use of those tools, XC batteries have been shown to work.
Think of it this way. Let’s say there’s a small brad nail that needs to be driven into a 2×4. One of my kids could hammer it in. A finish nail? Maybe they can do it, but it’ll be slower than if I were to do it. A couple of nails? They’ll get tired quick. A framing nail? Better give me the hammer.
“M18 Everything Fits” holds well for most of the M18 lineup, until you get to the heavy duty corded and gas-replacement tools released in recent years.
You have to match the battery to the tool and the task. When in doubt about which battery a tool should be paired with, look to see what battery or class of batteries it’s kitted with.
Frankly, “my compact battery won’t power my heavy duty tool” isn’t a complaint I’ve heard about yet. I’ve heard “can I use an XC battery in that tool until I can get an HD battery,” and the answer is usually “it’ll work for most tools, just not as well as an HD battery.”
If a tool is kitted with an HD battery, that’s a clear indicator that an HD battery is needed for it to perform optimally.
Chris
Have you seen Milwaukee’s Instagram posts like “We changed a lot in x years, but our batteries are still the same” or something like that. What a kick at Dewalt.
Jim Felt
This is exactly what Nikon, as the sales leader, did to Canon (camera’s both) when Canon changed their lens mount and Nikon did not.
Complain. Just complain.
Subsequently Canon has gone on to out sell Nikon for literally decades.
Canon was wise to update their lens mount and Nikon refused to change.
Analogous? I dunno.
Stuart
If Milwaukee hits a limit, there’s always the potential to go with a 2x battery sub-system.
Dave
As a heavy red tool investor, I’d very much prefer a Makita-style 2x battery platform over the buy-into-a-kinda-sorta-not-really-the-same platform DeWalt FlexVolt if Milwaukee ever does decide their 18v platform has hit its limit.
Robert
Nikon and Canon just came out with new mirrorless lens mounts.
TonyT
Yeah, not because they wanted to, but because now they have to play check up with Sony’s made for mirror-less lens mount system (and maybe to some extent , Micro 4/3 for video use).
Stuart
Oh yes. They were less subtle in the past when FlexVolt first came out.
Chris
I think Milwaukee is not only hitting the nail on the head, they’re driving hay damn nail about a mile through into the earth! Their cordless table saw on a single 18v battery is incredible. If I had to start from scratch, I’d absolutely get all Milwaukee tools. But then again, I’m sure Dewalt will come out with something this year that will make me never want to give up my yellow 🙂
Clifford Alloway
The only dewalt cordless tools I own are flexvolt. The smaller tools are mostly bosch, and a little bit of millwaukee.
I don’t see it as an issue for dewalt to have 60 and 20v lineups because I don’t see the need to put a huge battery on a small drill or other small tool. To me the big battery belongs on the big tool. Plus they are capable of fitting on 20v if desired.
On other notes, The previous gen of millwaukee 7 in circ saw that I used had the worst line of sight in any saw we have used. Bosch, Makita, black and Decker, craftsman, and dewalt having the best Los, are all much better as far as line of sight and we have used all of them over the last 30 years,
The dewalt line of sight is much better than millwaukee imo, unless they have improved it. I use a circ saw with either left or right with the right hand predominately, though I don’t mind using it left handed for perspective. I got rid of the millwaukee and bought the flexvolt because of this issue.
I found a 30 or 40 year old millwaukee circ saw my father had and The los was imo very bad. It makes it hard to use no matter how powerful a tool is .
The only issue we see with dewalt is tolerances are to tight with flexvolt battery and can at times be hard to get out.
Eric
There really isn’t much difference between the platforms. There’s no special sauce that makes a 60v battery better than an 18v battery. They’re both using the same style and numbers of battery cell inside. The only difference is how those cells are wired together. The both have the same potential power output. Sure there are potentially some small gains in efficiency with 60v. But I doubt it’ll be more than a couple percentage points at most.
In my mind flexvolt is mainly a marketing gimmick. And I’m sure there is some “lets get people to buy a bunch of new batteries” thrown in there. And probably a little bit of not wanting people to put their small compact batteries in the “big” tools and dealing with customers complaining about the lack of power.
Stuart
There was a bigger difference when FlexVolt just came out.
It’s not a gimmick.
There was a limit as to how much higher in capacity 18V-class battery packs could go, and how much power they could deliver.
Milwaukee went with a 15-cell battery pack, Dewalt went with a 15-cell battery and thought they’d see better performance by dialing the voltage up to 60V Max.
Designing around 54V is going to be different than 18V, even easier because of the current draw involved.
It’s a good idea on paper, and in practice. That it’s designed for distinct marketing doesn’t take away from this, or at least it shouldn’t.
Hitachi/Metabo HPT MultiVolt is similar. https://14cyiuhvcgv.com/how-hitachi-multivolt-18v-36v-batteries-work/%3C/a%3E%3C/p%3E
When you think about it, it’s not much different than going with a 2X battery system, which Black & Decker has done before. But instead of requiring separate batteries, which has its downsides, the system allows for higher voltage operation, while also being compatible with 20V Max tools and chargers. It’s a very clever way to power higher performance tools.
Patrick
Feb 7, 2019
Especially when they went from 18v to 18v (but calling it 20v).
Julian Tracy
I still think I like Makita’s approach better. I don’t need any huge fat $200 batteries, I can just buy normal batteries and double them up in the 36v tools when needed.
Considering how they’ve been basically giving away 5.0 batts in the last year, they’re super economical too. I’ve had so many free two packs of 5.0 batts included with purchases that I’ve probably sold off 5-6 pairs of them on CL for between $120-140 a pair.
Point is, there is an excess of brand new Makita 5.0 batteries available because of all the promotions that they’ve become pretty cheap to acquire.
As I recall, Makita’s chargers are pretty much at the top of the heap in terms of charging time too.
Stuart
There were plenty of Milwaukee battery promos and freebies during the holiday season as well. If you don’t see many being resold on ebay, that’s because users are keeping them.
Makita 18V X2 is a good but limited system. But at the moment, a pair of Makita batteries max out at 216 watt-hours (2x 6.0Ah batteries). Dewalt’s 12.0Ah FlexVolt and Milwaukee HD 12.0Ah High Output batteries can deliver the same, but since they’re built with larger cells they can handle greater power output and run cooler.
Makita is going to have to do something else if they stand a chance at competing with Dewalt and Milwaukee next-generation offerings. There are some things they can do, but will they?
D
Metabo HPT/Hikoki multivolt is the best implementation imo. No huge batteries, and still the potential to go X2 for 72V.
Madnys
Makita have dug themselves into a corner, a great deal of the x2 line don’t have the spacing between packs, including the brand new brushless saw XSH06 to use 21700 cells to match new 10 cell 8ah batteries. Along with XSH01 not being able to use 15 cell packs without reducing cut capacity.
Hitachi multivolt also means they cannot produce 15 cell packs but the AC adapter would probably make up for this. I am looking for a battery mitre saw, vacuum and sds max and if they turn out decent I will most likely buy Hitachi + batts for the flexibility .
As an electrician I would like a combo of slim 3s and fat 8s no real need for the 6(flex)/9/12s in my job.
Dave
I know I just praised the Makita x2 system above, but something comes to mind: unless you’re using your batteries as married pairs (both packs get used the exact same amount in the exact same application), you’re going to end up with some cells being overtaxed trying to keep up with the fresher, newer pack. That doesn’t bode well for overall life expectancy…
Stuart
That’s definitely a limitation of the X2 system. Generally, runtime is dependent on the lowest capacity battery of a pair. Wear on unmatched batteries is harder to comment about.
Eric
Form factor is a big problem with the x2 setups. On something stationary like a table saw, or their wheel barrow it’s not a big deal. Space on those isn’t much of a problem. But when get into circular saws and grinders and big SDS drills then having 2 battery packs makes things weird and awkward.
Albert
While I applaud Milwaukee for thinking about backwards compatibility, I can’t help but think back to the days when V28 batteries were king. I’m sure glad I didn’t buy any of those.
Fm2176
I agree, such strategies (attacking other brands’ product updates/innovations) is a bad look when you are as–if not more–guilty. DeWalt’s Max systems are all somewhat compatible, exceptions being the niche 40v Max and tiny 8v Max platforms. For instance, I can power my DeWalt USB charger with any of my 12v, 20v, or Flexvolt batteries. My Milwaukee USB charger is only compatible with M12 batteries.
Dcl
You can pull all the current you want at 18v. But you are doing so at significantly greater resistance. Eventually this 18v strategy is going to catch up to Milwaukee, and as technology advances they are either going to have vastly inferior products, or be the last brand to adopt a higher voltage platform.
madnys
But that is exactly where BLDC motors shine, because they have multiple poles ( generally 3 pairs ) that are switched via PWM to act like a 3 phase AC motor where our corded AC tools are only single phase.
By having the 3 phases in the motor winding’s each winding only carry’s a third of the total current and because power loss is I2R ( an increase in current equals exponential increase in power loss. )
Motor winding losses can be countered with thicker/thinner wires and less/more turns depending on voltages, which have an effect on overall size of the motor which is clearly seen in milwaukees new saw.
At the end of the day it is easier / cheaper to make a 36v/54v tool as the electronics don’t have to be as beefy or motor as costly but by far they are all powered by the same cells and these are the biggest limitation.
Nate
Someone correct me if I’m wrong but brushless motors are not 3 phase, if it has a third wire, that motor is sensored to know the exact position of the rotor at all times. The third leg on a battery is for battery current monitoring.
Nate
Well I’ll correct myself, turns out the most common brushless motor is a 3 phase but they’re handled by internal mosfets not the common 3 wires we use for ac motor connections.
The third wire is still for a sensored motor. Sensorless only use 2 wires.
madnys
You need 1 wire per phase as the motor is star connected, to control the switching of mosfets a hall effect sensor is employed on each phase and you need 2 additional wires per phase for the controller to know the exact location of the rotor.
TonyT
A permanent magnet brushless DC motor is 3 phases, and needs 3 wires (and 3 half bridges to drive it = 6 MOSFETs). Commutation can be handled by various means, including 3 Hall sensors (3 wires + power & ground), sensorless (typically using back EMF feedback on 2 phases), commutation encoder, or standard encoder.
Most stepper motors are 2 phase, but some 3 phase and 5 phase ones exist.
Corey
I find everyone’s marketing wank annoying and condescending. Of course a 60v motor needs a 60v battery. A high output 18v motor isn’t going to compete with a 60v motor without a high output/demand/abclmnopxyz battery. Two batteries are twice as large as one battery. Tools remind some people of bad gangster movie characters, kind of loses me, but okay. Everyone picked a horse (made a platform) let’s just have the race (develope the crap out of them). Personally I think Makita has the most budget friendly answer, Milwaukee has the most impressive, DeWalt has the greatest potential, Bosch has me most curious (despite or because of the head scratching), and Hitachi has definitely invested in being taken more seriously as a heavy duty tool brand. Beyond those, I think the universal truth of the moment is that it’s a great time to be buying into a legitimate cordless replacement for anyone’s work.
Fm2176
“…I think the universal truth of the moment is that it’s a great time to be buying into a legitimate cordless replacement for anyone’s work.”
?
CountyCork
It’s a very good time to be a cordless tool buyer for sure, everyone is innovating, no one loses.
Clifford Alloway
Plus no one is going to put a 2 amp battery for on a full size circ saw or recip
Clifford Alloway
This was meant to be posted to my above comment and put it here by accident. The jist is why criticize a company about their 20 and 60 v system when the 60 will work on 20. To me it is redundant for the high draw tool gets the large battery and no one in their right mind would put a small battery on a high draw tool. Millwaukee is being pointless imo.
Eric
If your working overhead all day I could see using a smaller battery just to help reduce the weight as much as possible.
OldDominionDIYer
Frankly I don’t see what all the hoopla is about. Each MFR has chosen a battery configuration/path that they are most comfortable with, each one has it’s advantages and disadvantages. If common sense were to prevail the user would logically select the right battery for the tool to be used. This article (for the Milwaukee battery infrastructure) explains it very clearly. It’s not rocket science! A responsible and marginally knowledgeable user is not going to plug a small battery into a high demand tool and expect it to work flawlessly by the same token if the user uses an HD/HO battery in a low demand tool expect it to be heavy and cumbersome, don’t blame the MFR for your own personal poor choices in either case.
PHILIP JOHN
Dewalt 12 amp charge time 1h 30 min.
Milwaukee charge time 2h 30 min
With higher current.
That’s the 60v advantage plus future bigger tool.
Milwaukee making great stuff though.
Julian Tracy
Two Makita 5.0 batts charged in 50min.
Julian Tracy
No wonder Milwaukee folks are holding on to their batteries, as per Stuart.
Nathan
yeah sorry Dewalt’s batteries technically didn’t change. The 20V pack is still applicable to all the 20V listed tools. They made a new higher capacity platform – and managed to also make the batteries for that platform compatible with the weaker tool system.
But again, marketing semantics.
Eitherway – I do like that there is some competition in the market place. Without that we are doomed to all having the exact same thing even if it doesn’t work well.
Hoppy
Which battery should be used with the Milwaukee M18 Fuel 4-1//2″ grinder? XC or HD in the 6AH rating?
Stuart
I believe that XC should be fine.
When in doubt, look up the kit for that model number and see what battery Milwaukee typically bundles it with.