We recently talked about rumors that Makita is launching a new tool box system at Home Depot in December.
As expected, there are a couple of comments about Makita being “too late.”
They’re not too late. I would argue that it’s never too late.
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Let’s talk about Milwaukee Packout for a moment. Who is buying Packout tool boxes, organizers, accessories or other system components this year?
There are new customers, including tool users buying their first modular tool boxes, and also those who are switching from a different system.
There are also existing customers who are expanding their kit, either because they have new unmet needs, or because Milwaukee has come out with new Packout products that meet additional existing needs and wants.
The modular tool box market has seen phenomenal sales growth in the past few years, resulting in a surge of competing systems entering the market in attempt to capture a piece of the pie.
However, the growth rate is ultimately unsustainable. At some point, there are going to be fewer new customers and more competing systems and brands.
But that doesn’t mean that everyone who wants modular tool boxes have already purchased everything they need. We also don’t know the size of the new user market. While the peak might have passed – or perhaps not – yearly sales will likely plateau at a still-substantial dollar amount.
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Every year, how many tool users buy into their first cordless power tool system?
There will always be a large pool of new customers, especially if modular tool box popularity continues to grow.
It’s better for Makita – or any other brand – to launch a tool box system when they can.
Dewalt launched their ToughSystem tool box system in 2011, and Milwaukee Packout didn’t launch until 2017. Dewalt announced an updated system in 2019 that was largely backwards-compatible.
See Also: A Timeline of Every Modular Tool Box System
I don’t think anyone anticipated that Packout would be as big a hit as it turned out to be – I certainly didn’t. I thought that, despite benefits compared to existing systems, the high prices would have slowed adoption.
If Makita launches a system that’s innovative and distinct, the timing won’t matter in the long run.
Milwaukee launched their M18 Surge oil impulse driver in 2016, and Makita launched their 18V model in 2014. Ridgid launched a quiet impact in 2015, and Ryobi in 2016.
Makita hasn’t updated their oil impulse/impact driver in 10 years, and Milwaukee in 8 years. Ridgid and Ryobi models were both long-discontinued. Does it seem like this is a huge market? There are rumors of a new Dewalt oil impulse driver coming out. Is it too late, or will it sell very well and in turn refuel competitive efforts?
Here are the top competing tool box systems in the larger form factor and construction-focused market – please let me know if I left any out. I consider smaller form factor tool box systems, such as Systainers and T-Stak to be in a different subcategory.
In no particular order:
- Dewalt ToughSystem
- Milwaukee Packout
- Flex Stack Pack
- Kobalt CaseStack
- Klein Mod Box
- ToughBuilt StackTech
- Craftsman TradeStack
- Ridgid Pro Gear
Milwaukee is leading the industry with respect to popularity – from what I can see – and has by far the largest selection of compatible components and accessories.
Makita stands a chance to best a number of these brands.
Yes, it’s difficult to break into a saturated tool category. Flex launched a new line of cordless power tools. Milwaukee launched USA-made electrical hand tools.
Success takes time, and it’s never guaranteed. It’s also never too late.
Dewalt ToughSystem 1.0 launched in 2011, and Ridgid Pro Gear 1.0 in 2014. Milwaukee Packout launched in 2017. Is anyone going to argue that “late timing” hurt Milwaukee’s success or popularity?
Back when we talked about ToughBuilt’s StackTech launch, several readers also opined that ToughBuilt was “late” to market.
There are so many other things that can make a tool box system successful or not. While still important, launch timing is way down on the list behind a slew of other factors.
If Makita does launch their new tool box system at the end of this year, let’s revisit this in 2030 and see if the timing really mattered.
TomD
“ Or will succeed” – probably needs an it.
The surest way to kickstart a new modular system is to include containers with toolkits – and I dare say you can hide a bit of margin in it, too.
How many people use systainer because a tool came in one?
Ross
It does seem like it would be a marginal expense. Any container, blow molded or even zip bag, has to be designed to fit, produced and shipped around. Doing so would also make more system lock in, encouraging users to purchase other tools and accessories that attach or clip into their existing collection.
SecretSquirrel
This, absolutely this. Every bag or blowmolded tool case I’ve gotten I’ve thrown away. I’ve committed to Festool because I like their tools, and they come with a systainer. My van’s full of them only because its a good consistent system.
I use to use Dewalt, why doesnt every tool come in a Tstak? Or Milwaukee, why doesnt every tool come in a packout?
If companies would do this, we would have less waste in this world, and more organized tradespeople.
Backcountry164
?? Why can’t Ford provide as many amenities as Ferrari?? Is that your question?? Gee, I don’t know. Maybe they want to keep thier products affordable…
JR Ramos
Many of DeWalt’s tools used to come in blow mold cases and then for awhile hard cases that were similar to Tstak (non-modular, a bit weaker) before they went to bags and mostly did away with it altogether. We had very few customers complaining about the omission but we did frequently have complaints about the previous hard cases (and back in the day there were even complaints about the well made metal toolboxes that many were in, from Milwaukee, Porter Cable, and Makita (some from Bosch and I think DeWalt had a few too)).
Because people like you throw them away, it just made sense to omit them and keep the price lower – which everyone enjoys – and let people figure out their own storage solution (or not). Downside is that now the customer usually pays full retail for the storage if it’s even available and it’s a lower cost savings up front (tool/kit pricing doesn’t fall much if at all).
Bags became popular when they started making them with lesser materials in China and could produce them for cheap, so that stuck around for awhile but now you don’t see them as standard anymore either. The cost to make and store dies for molding is not inexpensive even for larger scale production on simpler things. I’d venture to say that the die creation and maintenance for Packout boxes would run quite a lot more than simpler boxes or blow mold and although they use good materials (slightly more cost) the dies and molding process (time) are probably the lion’s share of the end cost. All that to say that if you wanted one included with “every” tool they would have to start making a crap ton of new dies and process lines and there is zero way that they could keep from marking up the cost a fair amount (which then gets increased again once or twice as it makes its way to your retail pricing)…..and there would absolutely be an increased freight cost that would be passed on to us as well.
For me, if every tool came in a box I would be left with the hassle of trying to sell a whole bunch of boxes I don’t want and that waste precious space for me. So that would end up costing me twice. I love bare tools with minimal packaging and I’ve created my storage and use systems in a way that works great for me.
Less waste at more cost for the consumer but overall that seems like a win in the big picture? I enjoy the savings. Those that want a box for every tool probably don’t enjoy the added cost (apparent or realized).
ITCD
I think the best way to balance it is to sell the boxes, and then separately sell inserts made for their tools. Increase the modularity.
Those that want to have fancy spots to put their drills and drivers can have them. Those who just want the box can have them. Those who are fine going without, can enjoy the savings of going without. Plus such a system would allow you to fit multiple tools within a single box, rather than having a whole box of the standardized width and depth just to hold a little impact driver.
Rob
Other way around. I’ve bought tools just because they were the one that came with a Systainer.
As far as brands that home stores carry, they’re sold in cases outside of the US (including bare tool). To meet cheap American’s expectations, tools come without cases here for a reason. Not only that,, the giant retailers prefer packing more product in a smaller area.
Todd+shaffer
but will home depot support it
Stuart
If the Makita system brings in foot traffic and sales? I think they absolutely would.
Enrique
They just need to have competitive pricing . Otherwise it will just be taking space on the sales floor.
Rob
Stuart, you already know that Makita doesn’t bring in sales nor foot traffic to Home Depot.x 😁
Luis
Home Depot is a TTI monopoly at this point
Stuart
Customers vote with their wallets.
IronWood
My local Ace-affiliated lumberyard has all their remaining Makita tools on clearance right now. Seems like less and less places have them on the shelf.
JR Ramos
I don’t know that timing is as important as what the products actually bring to the table. At this point they had better be offering something that at the very least has the same rugged durability and simplicity of joining/separating the boxes. Klein and Toughbuilt were quite late but tried to add some features were wanted or helpful. Lots of room for overlap now if patented features aren’t in the way (and at this point we won’t know if Klein’s ModBox will continue to exist, depending on where that patent lawsuit goes). While waterproofing/resistance has mostly been adequately addressed, there are still issues with getting the interior soaked or splashed when wet lids are opened…that would seem like a good place to improve. I’d still like a more granular drawer divider adjustment system so that 5″ grinding wheels/discs could be held decently (I’d probably buy into a stack of whoever if someone would do this). Will someone *actually* give us decent durable wheels, at some point? Baffles me why that is always an issue (and it has been going way back before any of these systems were here, except on dollies and industrial carts and such, but it’s such an easy thing to incorporate).
I wouldn’t discount the color in consumers’ decisions, either. People have clamored for the black euro Packout in the US for a long time and when Toughbuilt was first parroted, songs of praise were sung for their black muted color.
So what is Makita bringing to ensure their late-entry success? If it doesn’t offer improvement or new features, and if it’s priced the same or higher than existing successful systems (or if their are questions about availability/support) then it might indeed be “too late” to be successful, but there will always be devotees and adopters to at least get the product selling a little at first and visible out in the wild.
The in-store aspect and floor space challenges are important, but possibly less important these days with so much media material available to digest and help people make decisions when buying without seeing in person first…but this particular category, most people want to see it in person. Makita’s waning popularity may make it difficult for any retailer to justify the investment and space if they aren’t profitable enough compared to products that were/could be using that space.
fred
From my vantage point, industrial quality wheels would be a great selling point. But we might not like the price that come with them.
It may all come down to how many units Makita need to sell per year to make the venture successful.
MM
I think you hit the nail on the head. Fact is that good wheels or casters are not cheap. That said, I can think of a couple solutions that could work: they could design the boxes to be compatible with standard wheels such that customers who needed stronger ones could get them 3rd party, or they could sell upgraded wheels as an optional accessory.
JR Ramos
They don’t need to be full on industrial in capacity, just better than the crap and near-crap that they have always provided. Even the slightly better ones still fall short. It could all be done cheaply with plastic, just do it so that we don’t have cracked bores or cracked whatever, and wider tread width so it’s not sinking into soft dirt or gravel so easily (and tread patterns are wholly unnecessary).
Or, yeah, spec the box and axle such that we can easily swap aftermarket wheels. 10″ Ace Tuff wheels are fairly cheap and durable and don’t bend at the bearings or races so easily. Even the knockoff polyurethane dolly wheels are pretty suitable. Some concerns with overall box width and/or intrusion into the inside storage space but I bet most consumers would gladly accept tradeoffs there just to have suitable wheels that can handle a load of tools.
One standout I’ve seen are the Kart-A-Bag wheels used on the neat collapsible dollies that this company sells. They are excellent wheels that can handle a lot of impact and years of use…but they are proprietary and pricey wheels to replace (pretty much have to buy them from Kart-A-Bag)…still all made in the US though, and a super nice company. If wheels like that were made to work with these storage boxes it would be a great step up, and I’m sure those could be done inexpensively with a large company and overseas manufacturing.
Doresoom
Wow, I wasn’t aware of the ModBox lawsuit from TTI. I did some digging, and it looks like TTI has a pretty solid case against them: https://insight.rpxcorp.com/litigation_documents/15727156
It’s hard to imagine that Klein thought it wouldn’t be an issue.
JR Ramos
You can bet that whoever their IP firm is got an earful! There are always details behind the scenes before a case is filed, and things outside parties won’t be privy to during the case, but we’ll see where it goes. If Klein made a mistake in interpretation of the patents, sometimes they can fix that by agreement or licensing but I would guess that in communication prior to the suit Klein probably refused or dug in their heels, and here we are.
That said, it would appear that TTI filed suit a mere two weeks after serving a demand letter on Klein, and that’s rather odd/super aggressive in this world of law. Perhaps that was because of a response from Klein, maybe not.
If the suit is in favor of TTI then once that becomes painfully clear sometimes licensing or whatever will still happen…if the product is selling well and has a future then sometimes the $ penalty plus future licensing costs will still make it worth it, but these things can go a number of different ways. They certainly aren’t required to allow licensing.
JR Ramos
I’m still trying to keep tabs on the “hyper step” drill bit situation. They invalidated the patent so the Chinese inventor and manufacturer lost there (solely licensed to Astro who then also licensed it to a number of other brands). Norseman wins, but no indication from any of them about a change in anything. The patent owner did refile a new application for the same damn thing, probably trying to ungrouse issues raised during the suit (and hopefully with better counsel…what a poor circus it was). It’s only been a couple months since the decision was made so maybe things are still shaking out through the federal and patent office systems. The original examiner seems like a good one with very few invalidations over her many years of work.
MM
“If Makita launches a system that’s innovative and distinct, the timing won’t matter in the long run.”
That is really what it comes down to, with an emphasis on the first part. But that’s also challenging given how many other players there are in the market right now. Everybody wants a slice of the Packout pie and this has no doubt stormed countless brainstorming sessions with very smart people at Milwaukee and their competitors. I’m sure Makita can make a great modular tool storage system but time will tell whether it will be innovative or distinct enough for people to choose it over alternatives. I don’t see Makita differentiating themselves on price–they are not a value brand–so the question becomes how will they stand out from the rest. Other brands have brought new things to the market: Some brands are lower priced, Klein targeted the needs of electricians specifically, StackTech has a number of honestly new ideas that others didn’t have. Does Makita have something totally new like StackTech did? Or is it just a me-too system? When ToolGuyd first wrote about StachTech there were some people who thought they were too late to the game, but there were also a lot of people who praised their new ideas. What, if anything, are the new ideas from Makita?
Rossy
How about the husky boxes?
I love the cantilevering and slide out stacks.
Not as burley has some others, but still pretty good
William Adams
I’ve been debating on getting two more drawer units, or getting a Tanos Sortainer.
I still think the first company to make a unit centered on a wheeled base which:
– has drawers, or doesn’t have any storage (allowing total customization and avoiding the problem of having to unstack to access the base unit)
– is easily able to navigate stairs
– facilitates being loaded into a truck or van
and which costs less than a Tanos MW 1000 Mobile Workstation
will do well, but if I don’t grab two more Husky Rolling Connect drawer units, I’m going to finally break down and buy the Tanos/Festool option.
lk
I agree— not too late at all. Toughbuilt is a great example of a late entrant with innovative ideas that fueled some rapid adoption and very positive feedback from users. Their first 3-6 months had a lot of energy. Sadly it seems like lowes botched everything beyond that and it looks like TB will be late on their promised ‘24 lineup.
Makita wont be as limited in distribution and isnt a business mired in deep turmoil like TB.
Jacob
“Every year, how many tool users buy into their first cordless power tool system?”
Arguably not nearly as many as the halcyon days of the early 2000s when nearly every brand was in the game with a system. Nowadays the bands that turned out to be desirable have been acquired and are whitelablers.
Grokew
Klein Orange, Milwaukee Red, Ryobi LimeGreen/black, DeWalt Yellow/Black, Ridgid Orange/Black, Husky Black/Red, Flex Gray, Hart Blue/Black.
Yes, there is room for Makita Teal, there’s also extra space for purple, pink(it will definitely sell), a darker shade of green (like the color used by SK), and even Channellock Blue.
David
They can break into the market but they have to be smart about it . Undercut packout pricing significantly, buy one get ones, include them with tools. It’s something they are going to basically have to give away for a few years to get people invested. I’ve looked at the Flex stuff and quite frankly I do think they made some improvements over packout, but I’m not going to ditch my $3k worth of packout over it, especially when they are basically the same price. I still have lots of stuff I’d like to get into packouts, if a competitor offers the same thing at half the price I would probably give it a serious look, but it’s got to be worth my while. A little bit better at 90% the cost isn’t going to cut it.
Michael
This is actually quite topical for me. I’m looking into my first “pro” battery/ tool system, and one of my turnoffs towards makita was the lack of boxes. I have tested all of the major storage systems at the big box stores and have found the Flex models to feel the highest quality. I’m just hesitant to invest in a brand that may not be around for the long term. I’d pull the trigger now if I felt better toward their long term viability, but may just wait for the Makita units and see how they compare.
Adomahawk
Not sure how it is in the US but I know a lot of Makita users on site in the UK that use Packout for the sole reason that Makita only offer a trolley for the Makpac system. I myself bought the trolley and would certainly ditch it along with the Makpac boxes if Makita could make a modular that was anywhere near as good as the Packout for the sane sort of money.
Farkleberry
Personally, I was extremely excited by the promise of modular storage systems, but have yet to realize the potential.
The top systems excel in relatively lightweight, yet impact, dust and water resistant storage boxes for whatever you want (not just tools).
The unstacking issue thankfully brought about drawers, though these sacrifice weight capacity, durability and the water, dust and impact protection.
If you have a specialized trade doing the same things repeatedly, and use a transit van or a box truck or trailer, modular storage is amazing. The ability to 3d print, cut Kaizen foam or buy solutions, can organize your tools, materials and work flow, keeping things accessible and protected.
If you work in urban areas with tricky parking and long waits for freight elevators, stacking everything on a dolly for one trip, then having mobile vertical storage in tight working quarters is invaluable.
For a carpenter, for example, with a single cab pickup, throwing some boxes in the bed and having impact and water resistance is great, unless you have to leave them in a store parking lot.
Where I think these products often fall short is in their space efficiency. Some of these situations are:
-DIY or jack of all trades setups. With specialized setups, you can have one or two tools and all the accessories organized in each box. For wide ranging needs, the number of boxes necessary becomes onerous.
-Large garage setups. Wall space is usually quite limited in garages, and the typical 14-18″ depth means these units give up a lot of space to a typical 22-24″ deep mechanic chest or shelves. OTOH, if you have a typical tight garage, they could be ideal.
-In general, the stacking features, corner tie-downs, etc. and limited footprints mean they are often significantly less space efficient for a lot of tools and accessories than different sized totes and bags stored in one or two layers deep or on adjustable shelves. They are also typically more protective, but less accessible.
Mark M.
First-to-market advantage is a real thing. So timing does matter, although innovation does too. Not hating on Makita but they would have an uphill battle to say the least.
Aaron SD
Being first isn’t as important as innovating is.
It is bleeding edge vs leading vs following. Those appeal to different consumers. Being first is good but not always key. Being the best is more important.
Apple is rarely first on technology and learn from others and or spend more time refining to make it perfect.
Plus the first iteration isn’t usually the best version…. I read a lot here of people waiting and seeing….
JR Ramos
I agree with that from a consumer standpoint but being first is a HUGE advantage for new category products if there are IP rights that can be enforced and the manufacturer did all of that smartly before release to market. Gives a good long chunk of time to profit and maybe refine/improve while others have to figure out something different if they can. Tool boxes aren’t usually so unique but we can always look at the sad example of SawStop…
Farkleberry
I think two of the most important features that have made Packout so successful are:
-Front latch design. The side latches are virtually a no go when you have to unstack multiple stacks stored tightly side by side.
-Cleat system. The system is rugged and reliable, and if clogged with debris, relatively easy to clean off, vs a hidden latching system like Stacktech, etc.
The ability to home brew any manner of solutions using one or more individual cleats, has given Milwaukee an unlimited stream of free ideas to build and sell the promise of the system. If manufacturers fail to recognize this, and have a locking/stacking system that’s not easy to adapt by clever inventors/end users, I don’t see them competing long term.
Seeing all the ways to hang the units by back or side rails from hand trucks and like shelves seems to be the next battleground.
s
i question if makita is ‘hungry enough’ for it.
toughbuilt is a great example of a late player that still brought innovation to the game.
makita has felt very much like they’re running on autopilot lately, at least for the american market, and need to overcome the press cycle to get people interested in seeing their products again.
a big part of it will be if they can offer enough variety in the new system to make it worthwhile to buy into. a big detractor of many of the smaller systems is limited availability/options.
another big part also going to be the sizing of the system. i feel dewalt’s systems have failed miserably at this, and are almost too small for most uses, which severely undercuts their potential customer base.
personally, i’m much more interested in makita’s color scheme than i am of klein’s ‘steal me orange’ color scheme.
mnoswad
I aint buying no toolbox system unless they have wider drawers.
Was all excited for toughbuilt until i saw the drawers are too narrow. I want to put long framing hammers, 16inch prybars and a crosscut handsaw away in drawers.
I need something somewhere between packout and dewalts big new system.
Dave
At this point they should have the ability to latch to milwaukee or not bother. History is full of examples of too late to the party and this is going to be just another addition.
Harrison
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again-
If the barrier to entry for these plastic boxes is low enough that even our regional Home Hardware and niche brands like Purdys paint accessories can commission their own ‘storage systems’, I think a global company like Makita can figure out how to sell a few. If they can’t figure this one out, they might as well just throw in the towel.
I don’t think they’re going to lead the market at this point, and that’s okay. The containers just need to be adequate, anything is better than MakPak.
There will be a diehard contingent of Makita users eager to house their tools in a matching container, many of which will just order them online day one. Having some of these in Home Depot is gravy.
I think the opportunity cost of not releasing this product is way worse than the risks of launching. It’s somewhat unacceptable at this point to not have a rugged storage solution if Makita wants to count themselves in the *distant* top 3 or 4 tool professional tool companies in North America.
dale clark
How many of these modular tool box systems can the market support?
JR Ramos
I’m gonna say sixty. The best days are yet to come………
Champs
There isn’t a big switcher’s market and I don’t see price-competitive options flying off the shelf for new consumers. The tool-toolbox adoption path would be a good one to take (that’s how I went Packout) but then there’s the Makita market share issue.
I love this idiosyncratic brand like crazy (the vented jacket, the microwave, etc.) but without embracing Gridfinity for a HUGE head start on the customization people like about these systems, I’m not expecting to reconsider my Packout lock-in, nor are most.
Apple Maps, even with the advantage of being preinstalled on 40% of smartphones and building on OpenStreetMap, is still kind of the butt of jokes almost 12 years later. Just sayin’.
Bengt
The tools should come in the cases. Are you saving money buying them separately?
At least being sold in the cases should be an option.
Festool systainers are light and efficient. Inserts to house tools securely are part of the deal.
They are not strong and weather proof.
The others are weather proof and strong.
But HEAVY and lack inserts for tools(would be nice as an option at least).
If Makita could make a strong weather proof case that is lightweight it could fill a niche. Especially if they offer it with tools with inserts.
Stuart
This business model works for Festool because their customers are already paying a huge premium. It won’t work for other brands outside of special promotions or very limited SKUs.
Most consumers are very price-conscious. If someone wants a modular tool box, they can buy it separately.
Harrison
Makita seems to be moving in a direction where they aren’t competing on price. And they’re no stranger to copying Festool’s homework.
If they can offer a tool + case SKUs that beat the individual prices, they could use that value to help drive adoption.
I definitely agree there is no room in the price of a $199 drill kit for something like this.
Bengt
Price conscious? Yet they spend big$ on giant red boxes. $199 ? A Milwaukee premium kit is $399 ? Right or am I wrong? I think the Festool is 650. So if Milwaukee offered it for 450 with a stackable case wouldn’t this make sense.
Alex
I see three options when you come late –
1. be better i.e better features, things people really want
2. be niche – absolutely tailor yourselves to a specific group or task – airplane electricians or dry wall instalers e.g. don’t chase everything but make 1 group love you and build from there
3. be compatible – build your stuff so that it can bolt on to other systems and people can mix and match
Do we expect a significant used market in this space in years to come? I might question buying used electronics, but a plastic box should be a safe bet? That might reduce the new market significantly
Luis
You left out Bosch’s L-BOXX system. One of the earliest entries along with Dewalt. It still sells with some success worldwide but it looks like there is very limited distribution in North America
Stuart
Like Systainers and Tstak, L-Boxxes are not competitive against the tool box systems listed above.
Brian
Makita should just buy out ToughBuilt’s StackTech side of the business and call it a day.
I’d be very happy with a Teal colored StackTech system.