Jon wrote in with a great question, asking about whether there’s a battery pack adapter that could allow for Milwaukee, Ridgid, and Ryobi cross-brand compatibility.
This is a question that’s more often asked about Stanley Black & Decker brands, such as Dewalt, Porter Cable, and Black & Decker. TTI is the parent company for Milwaukee Tool, and they also operate Ridgid and Ryobi power tools in North America.
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Here’s a refresher: Our guide to tool brands and corporate affiliations.
Jon wrote:
I’ve been wondering if there is an adapter that allows TTI branded products (Ryobi/Ridgid/Milwaukee) to share batteries? I am assuming that the li-ion batteries that TTI uses in its branded power tools either have identical guts or guts similar enough to allow them to work across the various product lines, no?
I would love to use my Ridgid batteries to breathe new life into my Ryobi circular saw and grass trimmer. Thanks!
Here’s the short answer: Nope!
This is a question I’ve thought about a couple of times now, so here’s the long answer:
Although Milwaukee, Ridgid, and Ryobi – at least the latter brands’ North American power tool interests – are all under the TTI corporate umbrella, the tools and their respective battery technologies are completely different.
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They’re designed differently, and to different specs. I don’t think the cells are even alike. I haven’t taken apart Ryobi or Ridgid battery packs, but I don’t think they’re even built with the same cells. Actually, I don’t think even all of Ryobi’s battery packs are built alike, since they have starter-level and more premium 4.0Ah battery packs. In that case, the batteries are all 18V One+ compatibility, but you might see different performance.
Ryobi came out with a cordless fan, and then Ridgid, and also Milwaukee. At Milwaukee’s recent press event, I asked a product manager as to whether any technology or design was shared across brands. They said they don’t have any official communication with their parallels at the other brands, except for maybe at the personal level.
It might be different for Ridgid and Ryobi, in terms of communication and partnership, but that doesn’t change the fact that the product technologies are going to be different.
Stanley Black & Decker’s brands share similarly styled battery pack form factors, but you still won’t see cross-brand compatibility there.
Chicago Pneumatic came out with a new line of 18V cordless power tools, and although the batteries are based on Ridgid’s form factor, I asked and found out that the components and specs are different.
There are only two exceptions I can think of. Black & Decker’s Matrix modular power tools, and Craftsman’s Bolt-On system are designed alike, and Mac’s power tools are
Modern power tools and their Li-ion battery packs are smart devices with a lot of sophistication.
Consider two Canon cameras – a point and shoot camera, and a dSLR. They’re both Canon cameras, but the battery needs and designs are different. Even two Canon dSLRs or two point and shoot cameras will have different battery sizes. The same is true for other brands. I have several Panasonic cameras, none of which can use the same battery, despite being similar in size or shape.
While we might all wish for battery adapters, or better – universal battery adapters, it’s not going to happen. Consider things from the other side of the fence. As much as we might moan and groan about having to buy and maintain multiple battery pack platforms, that’s probably better than unpredictable tool performance.
If I had to rank the three brands, I would consider Ryobi to be the affordable brand, Ridgid to be the mid-level brand, and Milwaukee to be the higher performance brand.
Rigging a higher-level battery to work with a lower-level tool might work without ill effects, ignoring for a moment whether there are any “handshake” compatibility issues. But what about going the other way around?
A Ryobi battery pack is not going to be as capable of powering a Milwaukee M18 power tool – certainly not the heavier duty tools with greater power draw. There’s nothing wrong with that, as they’re designed specifically to power Ryobi power tools.
I’ve seen a couple of adapters and couplers on Kickstarter and elsewhere, but nothing that I’d be optimistic about.
In January I posted about a question that came to mind – what if brands adopted Bosch’s wireless charging standard? I think that would be the closest we’d get to a universal charging system.
But as for battery adapters – not going to happen, at least I don’t think so. Brands pour a lot of energy into their battery pack designs, and are not going to willingly allow for mixing. Because when – and not if – users are disappointed after coupling one brand’s battery packs with other brand’s tools, who will they blame? The power tool brand? The battery brand? Probably both.
Jon
Thanks for the thorough and prompt response Stuart! I guess my dream of a more compatible tool chest is simply that, a dream.
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.
– E.A. Poe
KenZ
The only way to solve this is to “roll your own” which is what I did, although the outcome is probably not worth the effort unless you like the DIY aspect.
I have done three modifications:
A. Adapter to run a 36V Bosch from two 18V Makita batteries. This required leaving the Bosch’s circuit board in place; direct connection of the two 18V batteries in series didn’t work as the tool clearly needed some sort of ‘signal’ that it was attached to a valid battery.
B. Adapter to run B&D 18V tools from 18V Makita batteries. Direct connection works. Made from an old B& D battery and a Makita connection from a worklight.
C. Adapter to run Ryobi 18V tools from 18V Makita batteries. Direct connection works. Made from an old RYobi battery and a Makita connection from a worklight.
In a past life, we were testing power tool batteries and I had to measure volts/amps through a battery between the battery and the connector. Interestingly, for the old Dewalt LiIon batteries which used A123 cells (might be the newer ones too), if you remove the voltage between the cells and the battery circuit board, it permanently damages the board and I wasn’t able to resurrect it. So to make an adapter in that case, I had to basically do a hot swap of power from the old cells to new ones. Got the testing done; not sure if there’s an easier way to achieve success, but in that case at least they went through some pretty clear efforts to prevent substitutes.
Happy to send pictures of the adapters if anyone cares. But, as noted, the effort to be able to run everything from one battery type (Makita 18V in this case because I thought they were the best value in $/Wh at that time), was probably not worth it unless you are obsessed with the idea.
Hang Fire
I’m pretty sure that self-destruction feature is to prevent charging while the cells are shorted, which results in a fire. See newspaper articles on Boeing for more information.
GEORGE MANGUS
Mr. Hang Fire, I’ve thought about this previously. I would appreciate any info or pictures. I have older 18 volt Milw. Batts,. 18 volt Ryobi batts. and 19.2 volt Craftsman batts. Looks like the best would be to take Milw slide in batts and adapt those to any other. What do you think? GDM
JFessler
I’ve been wanting to do this as I have a Ridgid collection while my dad and brother use Ryobi. Sounds like if I strip an old battery from each I can direct connect to build adapters?
Chuck
Hello, i would be very interested in seeing the pics, we do construction and have multiple sets of tools from Milwaukee, makita, porta cable, and our main sets of dewalts, and ive thought about using an old dewalt battery and pop the top an try making an adapter to run mainly the makita sets but too scared that the lithium technology has surpassed me, thanks [email protected] o m (take spaces out)
Warren harapiak
Sounds great good job would love to see pictures of your adapters
will
Not to mention “what if Brand A’s tool fries Brand B’s battery pack or the other way around.”
Jerry
Not to mention that some brands have battery protection circuitry built into the battery, and others have it in the tool, different chargers have different ways of ‘communicating’ with the battery, etc, etc.
I still have some 18V DeWalt tools, and wished that they made an adapter to be able to power the old tools with the new battery. I wouldn’t mind buying into a new battery platform so much if I could use up my old tools using the new battery and an adapter, but it doesn’t look like it will happen.
However, I often wondered why when they went to the new slide-in battery packs, that they didn’t make them comparable within the entire parent line. For example, the new 20V Max DeWalt batteries, look almost like they’d interchange with the Porter Cable 20V Max batteries, which look similar to the B&D 20V Max batteries. Since they are all under the same patent company, I wonder why they didn’t make the batteries fit all 3 brands. The B&D could be the economy line, PC the mid line, and DeWalt the premium. If you had a PC drill, and wanted more runtime, get a DW battery. DW drill battery goes bad, use a PC or even B&D one, in a pinch. The only real differences between them could be the AH ratings, and maybe the quality of the cells, but think how much simpler it could have been (in my mind anyway) if they all used the same general platform? Chargers could be the same way: B&D chargers would be the economy (slow) one, the PC the 1- hour, and the DW the 30 minute or multi charger. Just think how someone just getting into working with cordless tools could start with B&D, and just seamlessly work their way up to pro level tools, without having to get all new batteries and chargers. It would almost guarantee that consumer would stay within the lines of the parent company, as they needed better tools. Ditto a professional with DW tools, who would like to get something for occasional use, they could get a PC or B&D tool, and save a few bucks.
As to Ryobi, Ridgid, and Milwaukee, they have far too different a battery form factor to ever be comparable, at least Ryobi does. They still have the battery that slides up into the handle, instead of sliding onto the bottom, an adapter would definately be needed. However Ridgid and Milwaukee could have had the same attest and charger setup, when they went to the slide-on batteries, with the same advantages as I mentioned above. However, for some reason, they didn’t.
Jason
The reason why Dewalt switched to the slide on packs is that it allows for a much slimmer handle on the tool. Secondly, every other brand was going in the same direction and from a marketing standpoint an uneducated consumer would think that Dewalt was falling behind the competition.
Brad
I don’t think any (many?) of us are suggesting that the manufacturers should not have evolved to the slide-in battery packs. In fact, I prefer that style and am okay with buying any new tools in that form-factor. I just want to be able to use my old tools with the new style batteries.
KC
Dewalt now has a 20V to 18V adapter in the USA check their website. You can buy up the newer line knowing you can still run the 18v tools
fred
Even within the lineup – batteries that can look alike may not be compatible. Take for example Makita’s 4 and 5 AH 18V batteries that are only compatible with the newer tools that have been marked with a star. Stuart wrote about this back in November 2013.
glenn
I have previously given this some thought, as in using my M18 batteries to power my remaining 2 Ryobi tools. I even went as far buying a dead M18 charger to chop up. I decided not to go ahead with it after having a look and a good think about it.
Firstly the Ryobi batteries only hook up to the tool via a + and a – connection. The Milwaukee batteries hook up to the tool with five electrical contacts having the + and the – connections being the outer of the 5. The other 3 I am guessing are for battery/tool protection as well as balance charging.
Not being an electronics expert, I personally didnt consider it worth the risk of potentially damaging my battery packs and I am guessing similar issues will arise between any combination of other brands. Unfortunately this is the price we pay for having li-ion tech with proprietary tool/battery protection circuitry as well as the very warranty periods we are now getting.
Unfortunately there is no single manufacturer that will have all the tools we want in their own platforms so I guess we are just stuck with having to have multiple battery platforms if we require tools outside any particular brands line-up.
KenZ
This will work fine. Just do the direct (and correct) + and – connections. The extra pins are a temp sense line, possibly a pack ID line, and at least one cell balancing line. But you don’t need those for the Ryobi.
To prove this to yourself easily without going through major shenanigans, just two lead wires with aligator clips and/or metal contacts on each end and connect away. Make sure your voltages are connected right. Make sure your lead wires are like 10 gauge or thicker, because the current going through these suckers is large.
Ari
I am also using my m18 for ryobi, bosch, and some others as well. Do not just forget about the protection those other lines give you. They help to protect the packs however it is the tool that stops, not the battery. Just do what I am going to do. While you are using them, keep an occasional look at the battery status with the indicator and make sure that when you get down to the 1 bar, you change the battery and charge it. If you go to flashing and too much past that, you can damage the battery cell.s
glenn
Meant very long warranty periods.
Tim
Yes! it can be done. You just can’t buy it, you have to build it. After getting some good deals on power tools of different brands then what I was invested in, I did some modding and was able to build batterpack adapters for those specific tools (can still be serviced, tool case can still be opened to replace triggers and such) . Then finally I thought i should build an adapter not just mod the tool it self. So i made a li-on makita 18v to old style dewalt 18v pod style adapter. If i could post pics, i would. Basicly 18v is 18v or what ever, so you just have to get the polarity right. However as some have mentioned, some of the newer tools are getting smarter and so are there batter packs and some communicate to each other and some have overload protection and will shut down. So you must first see if the tool will run with just voltage suppled from another source with jumpers. I thought at first the number of contacts would give it away, but i ran into a situation trying to mod a Bosch product and with just two contact it would not work. So i opened it up and found that a circuit board first sent a signal to the tool before it would operate.
KenZ
We were clearly separated at birth.
TimK
Hey, Ken I did not even read the previous posts before I posted…. now I feel silly. But for sure, I like the way you think. I am not going to have some manufacture tell me what batteries I have to use. Maybe we should email Staurt with some pictures and a short write up to help others out. I made the adapter with a grinder, epoxy, a drill and other basic tools.
KenZ
I think we posted at the same time! And that is exactly how I made mine. I had found a deal on the Makita worklights for like $18 ea, so I got my Makita connectors from there. That said, I did check a few years ago and someone had modeled and uploaded a digital file for a makita battery adapter that you could print on a 3D printer. If one were good with CAD, you could easily make a universal joint, print the two sides you want, and granted have to insert connectors and wiring, but whip these suckers out a lot faster.
However, once you have ONE (or maybe two if you misplace stuff) of them, you really don’t need more. I pretty much only use one drill at a time…
Steve
What about AEG over in Europe? Does that fall under the same won’t work with Milwaukee packs and vice versa? Also are there any sort of universal chargers for all the different brands battery packs at least?
AndyL
Yes, Mil and AEG batts not compatible, but Ridgid and AEG cordless tolls with LiPo 18+ slide batteries uses the same ones.
Richard G.
Wouldn’t it be cheaper and easier just to order same battereis on ebay and even ask a seller to solder them in needed pack? I did that for one very expensive item I had, to buy new rechargeable battery pack from a dealer would cost me about $300, I found same batteries on ebay, asked a seller if they can solder me in same order, sent them a picture, and here I am, $40 total including shipping. Regarding adapters, it would be against company profit to make a shared platforms, so no one will do that.
KVDE
Makita has 2*18V = 36V adapters for their tools. I really like this idea and would love to see this on bosch tools.
I am thinking about buying into the bosch 18V system but all their gardening tools are 36V. Buying a 36V battery pack just to shear my hedges once or twice a year is a little expensive. If I could buy the tool without extra batteries and use the 18V that would be worth it.
ToolBoxHero
Batteries Plus will also rebuild most packs and in most cases use a better cell than the original. It’s a great way to keep your favorite old Nicad system running.
Nathan
I’ve thought alot about this – more specifically the dewalt vs porter cable batteries. And I think I even asked once on this site about the ridgid vs milwaukee thing.
While batteries are batteries in the LIPO, LIon, world some are smarter than others. Some companies are putting the control/safety logic circuits in their batteries making them very unique. (bosch for certain – not sure on others) As the companies do the bluetooth controls and the like I’m afraid this might get worse.
that said – other than adapter plates to make the battery form factor “mate” with the tool – and consequently the charger – you have other issues. I’ll start by saying I’ve not looked in depth on the milwaukee – ridgid thing but I can see some parallels.
On the Dewalt vs porter cable thing – looking at the PC battery it would see that some minor millwork on some wood or plastic would make the tool connection easy and while it would add some bulk there aren’t giant PC 20Vmax Li batteries for me to worry about either. so minimal effect on tool ergonomics – they look like they could slide in – but in reality there is no way with out some adaption. ON the charger side of the coin – absolutely not. but hey PC charger isn’t that expensive either.
Electrically speaking – first thing I noticed we counting the connections – Dewalt has an additional blade in their batteries and tools. and if I’m reading it right it’s an additional + connection. both PC and D have 2, negative connections, a sense connection. but Dewalt uses 2 + rails where PC uses only 1. this throws off the alignment of the battery blades, and begs the question why. I suspect since the dewalt line up has tools with more power need – thus higher current draw, and dewalt as bigger batteries in their line up dewalt batteries have the ability to pull from 2 side of the battery at the same time (for the 4Ah and 5Ah packs) so they use that 5th rail
While I’d assume both systems sense the battery condition the same way – using the sense rail voltage against the other – lead to gage temp of the pack core, while using a + rail and a negative rail to sense internal resistance. I ‘d want to test that carefully. And I’d think I could take a PC battery, and in the adapter wire both + rails on the Dewalt side, connect to the same rail. I’d still want to use a PC charger for their battery and a dewalt charger for those batteries.
by the time all that’s done – it’s safer, and not that much more expensive to just use the better dewalt battery.
I suspect some flavor of this is equally true in the Ridgid vs Milwaukee story. Since milwaukee has some very high draw tools that I don’t see in the ridgid line up either.
As far as disassembly and re-working your old packs, easily done but be careful out there. Li batteries are extremely dangerous as they can short internally and discharge inwards (in very basic terms) and as they over heat the chemical reaction won’t stop and when it explodes it’s not just a pop but a splatter of 800+ degree liquid lithium.
Adam
We had a pretty good sized fire here last year due to a lithium watch battery being tossed in a bucket with other batteries and shorting out. Something like $10,000 in damage, including having to replace a huge amount of phone and network cabling that the fire burned through.
aerilus
following is a tl/dr post with horrible grammer and spelling of what i have figured out about battery packs over the last couple of years
tool batteries are pretty much the same as laptop batteries. they are all based of the same cells that are in a tesla roadster. the 18650 cell the different amp hour rating come from the increased power of the newer cells you can get them up to 3400mah now. these cells are charged up to around 4.0v and dissipated to around 3.0V. if i recall correctly if lion cells are disipated past a certain voltage you can get run away and start a fire. this is why lion stuff just stops working instead of dying slowly. there is a chip that cuts off current at a certain voltage you can buy the individual cells with each cell having this chip built in(called protected cells). with laptops, flashlights and tools generally several functions including this shut off function are build into a dedicated pcb somehwere in the plastic housing. in laptop battery packs and tools there is a temperature sensor that is monitored by this pcb, laptop packs are also wired in at more than just two poles to allow pulling current from batteries evenly . each 18650 cell is calculated as being 4 volts 12 volt tool lines ussully have three batteriy cells in their pack in a series circuit. for the higher capacity batteries they wire 2 sets of three into paralell allowing the voltage to be at 12v but the current pulled to be increased. 18v(same as 20V) works the same way the smaller packs are 5 cells wired in series the larger are 2 sets of 5 cells. lower ah ratings are just cheaper lower powered cells the most common cells are rated at about 2600mah. there is no magic here. the magic is the fact that manufactures do little things to intentionally ruin compatibility. car keys and ipods do the same thing. in order to make a battery pack or charge an ipod you use a usb wire that has 4 pins on is only two of those are + and – in order to diy charge one though someone had to figure out that apple had a 100ohm resistor across the two pins and would charge unless it detected this. some newer cars keys are the same there is a resistor in them that is tested when inserting the key to make sure its not a copy. the pcb on these batteries monitor temperature and voltage they may also pass through this info to the pcb in the tool. I would imagine they may also pass the fact that there are two channel (two circuits in parallel) the tool pcb to allow the tool to better balance power. one problem laptops seem to have is they are generally made up of 6 cells. if people dont fully discharge their battery periodically and just leave there laptop plugged in all the time where it discharges to 99% then recharges to 100% only two of the cell of those 6 will be worn out but the circuitry reports the whole pack as bad. its a good way to harvest 18650 cells for flashlights e-cigs, lasers, electric bikes/cars and other projects. now the only noticable tangent to this is lipo cells which apple has been using for awhile in there laptops, all cell phones and most pro level RC stuff use lipo, I would hazard to guess there is a least on tool out there running off one of these packs instead of 18650, generall now adays if the battery is not user changeable and its not a lead acid its a lipo cell. one other tangent though, you will notice that some tools like hitachi have strange voltage ratings. they are the same exact battery the voltages is just given as what the battery produces in a more discharged state. 18650s are marketed as being 3.7 volts tools sold at 10.8v or 14.4 volts are just using 3.7 to calculate there voltage. its the proper way and not the maketing friendly way to do it. if you pull the battery out of your laptop somewhere on it it will say 10.8 or 14.4v
Paul
I always though that a slide in adapter running of household current allowing you to run your cordless tool as a “corded” tool would be great. But again why would the manufacturers want to cannibalize their lucrative battery sales.
Nathan
brushless tools, and most modern battery operated tools want DC current – so if you do that you’d need to rectify AC to DC and provide the right nominal voltage (usually 16-18 Vdc) and also have a circuit that maintains some level of current through put (in the order of 50 Amps or so for heavier tools)
your circuit now has components that outweigh the battery.
aerilus
this is the same as what i gathered from my research. the current at 18-20 volts you would need to push would be so large is makes it unruly. they make stuff that does this specifically for rvs and solar systems they are about the size ad weight of a desktop power supply which consequently does the same thing. server power supplies are pretty good at supplying 12V at very high amperages and can be hacked together as a cost effective solution to running a dedicated bitcoin miner.
KL
Some have done adapters successfully, but all the ones I’ve seen appear rather Frankenstein-ish, or have some definite caveats/gotcha’s/must-remembers. That’s fine but I’d love to see plug ‘n play, and I think it’s happening under the radar w 3D printers. Some are afraid of lawsuits/injunctions so they don’t advertise. But in most cases the biggest challenge is plastic molding, not electrical.
Nathan
OH and there are some noted interchanges. MAC tools offerings of cordless drills etc – not only say Powered By Dewalt – but they will indeed take a Dewalt battery – and they are identical. Doesn’t void the warranties and some MAC dealers even carry Dewalt tools on their trucks with them.
Mr. X
OK so interspecies battery exchange is not going to happen. How about an adapter that plugs into a cordless tool’s battery terminal that has a cord and the necessary transformer/power supply to use that tool as a corded model? Why would I want to do this? Maybe I don’t have time to wait for the next battery to charge, or maybe I want to save my battery charge for another job. It seems like a simple thing to engineer. Why not?
Chris
Benjamen
I’m surprised no one else came across this as a possible solution:
http://cordless-drill.rambobattery.com/
Rambo battery, the name pretty much says it all.
Stuart
But that’s only for NiCad and NiMN battery packs. Something like that won’t work with Li-ion cells or packs.
aerilus
its possible you would need a controller pcb http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm3622.pdf and you would most likely wind up with at best third degree burns and at worst body parts strewn around your lawn. lithium ion is not as forgiving as other battery technologies to mistakes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTzEHsJVZhA
Cr8ondt
Porter cable, Black&Decker, Bostitch and Standley Fatmax batteries ARE able to be used with each other, mind you very minor modding is required ie tab cut off etc.
Stuart
But are they meant to be? Not if there’s a tab that purposefully prevents battery swapping.
If something should happen, such as a tool overheating and starting a fire, the brand will be in the clear and you’d be on the hook for it.
Sure, you could route a TV’s power cord through the wall, or run an extension through the wall from one room to another. But they’re not designed for such use, and are against code. If a fire starts and the investigation reveals that improper wiring was the cause, or even potentially related to the cause, insurance won’t pay a penny.
A while back I received straight-off-the-line battery packs from a brand. Before they even arrived I received a warning to not use it with certain of the brand’s newest tools, as the initial production accidentally lacked a certain safety measure and would overheat under certain conditions.
Brad
Here’s a thread on the feasibility of interchanging batteries/chargers amoung the Black & Decker family of tools (B&D, Porter-Cable, Stanley, DeWalt, Mac).
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5081012
You’ll also find in the above referenced thread a link to an 11-page thread regarding the feasibility of building an adapter between old/new generations of Dewalt tools.
In short, the Dewalt and Mac Tools brands are off on their own island, even though they share the “20V Max” naming with the other less expensive B&D brands. The primacy reason is the shut-off circuitry being built into the tool with the Dewalt/Mac branded tools.
The shut-off circuitry is built into the battery for the B&D, Porter-Cable, Craftsman, and Stanley 20V Max products. As mentioned above, the B&D and Craftsman 20V Max products are fully cross-compatible. The Porter-Cable and Stanley products are made to be incompatible, but myself and others believe that is totally for marketing reasons, not technical. I’m finding several examples of people successfully making the necessary mods to overcome the “marketing created incompatibility”.
Elvis
Any tool that was available with BOTH Nicad and Lithium batteries has the battery protection circuitry in the battery. Examples of these are the “18 volt” (nominal) Ridgid, Ryobi, Porter-Cable & Dewalt (pod-type), all of which have 5 18650 Li-Ion cells in series. Dewalt’s pod type 18-v Lithium batteries were the only one to use LiFePo4 cells, which are only 3.2v nominal per cell, and they had 6 cells in the pack. Those are the exception, though. Further confusing matters is that Black & Decker sold TWO types of 18-volt Lithium batteries, one of which fits their older style 18-volt NiCad tools (and is very rare), and the other being identical to the 18v Porter-Cable style pack.
As far as I know, all the mainstream tool manufacturers are now using Lithium-Nickel-Manganese-Cobalt (usually referred to as Lithium NMC or “tri-metal” referring to the metal used for the cathode) although Ryobi’s cheapest Lithium packs might still be using the older Lithium Manganese cells. At the present time, if the battery pack is advertised as having good cold-temp performance, it is almost certainly has Lithium NMC cells in it.
Unlike NiCads, all currently available lithium batteries must have battery protection to avoid damage from over discharge. Overcharge is usually not a problem because any of the cells currently used in mainstream power tool packs cells use essentially the same relatively simple peak-voltage charge termination rather than the delta-V required for NiCads but balancing individual cells is, and the battery protection circuit handles that too (by effectively controlling the charge of each cell independently). Any of these lithium batteries (even the LifePO4 cells in the old Dewalt 18v packs) *MUST* have battery protection in the battery pack because they fit older-generation tools that obviously do not have any battery protection in them.
Putting this in the battery pack not only takes up more space, it also adds significantly to the cost of the pack because the circuit must handle the peak load of ANY tool it can be used with. Battery protection circuits capable of handling the peak amp load of tools that will be loaded heavily (like a drill or saw) are not cheap.
So when most cordless tool manufacturers decided to switch to an all-lithium lineup, they intentionally changed the battery style to make them incompatible with older tools, which allowed them to put the battery protection circuitry in the tool itself, which also allowed them to use less expensive protection circuits for tools like flashlights that will never pull a lot of current like a saw or drill. The marketing people had already polluted the well by referring to the previously introduced “10.8 volt” (nominal) 3-cell compact tools as “12-volt MAX” so when it came time to bring out new & improved 5-cell (18v) lithium tools, they did the same thing to them, by referring to them as “20-volt MAX”
If Dewalt produces a battery adapter that allows the use of newer “20-volt MAX” batteries with older 18-volt Dewalt tools, they can easily put the protection circuit in the adapter.
As for anyone else making & selling adapters, years ago there was an ebayer who sold adapters to use Ryobi 18v batteries with 18v Dewalt tools (to give you an idea of how much of a kluge it was, the Ryobi packs’s stem inserted into the bottom of a gutted 18v Dewalt pack that served as the adapter, so the overall size was about twice as large). Dewalt forced ebay to stop him, claiming some for of infringment on their intellectual property rights. Evidently Makita doesn’t mind someone doing the same, but the ebayer currently selling Makita adapters doesn’t adapt other-brand batteries.
As for a DIY solution, the 18v Ryobi, 18v Ridgid & 18v Porter-Cable Lithum packs are commonly available and they all have battery protection PCBs in the battery, and the latter two have a physical configuration that allow fairly easy adaptation. But this isn’t very cost-effective unless you have a source of donor tools to provide the “socket” that the tool latches on to.
The other alternative (which I have done) is to graft the output side of one battery onto the BOTTOM of another. This provides a more direct connection (not going through two sets of contacts). Since I have a lot of older, aging 18v B&D NiCads and several tools that use them, along with several newer 18v Ridgid Lithium packs but no donor tools to hold the output side of that battery to connect to the output side (top) of a dead B&D battery (of which I have many), that’s the approach I took: the top section of an 18v B&D battery fits nicely onto the bottom of a 18v Ridgid Lithium battery.
aerilus
thee is always one weird brand that goes LiFePo4 cough macbook cough
Brian R Parker
Does anyone know how to determine whether the battery is protected or is the tool doing the protection for a specific battery line? I want to use some Bosch CORE 18V batteries to do something non tool related, but I do not want to kill the batteries.
I am having trouble finding this out.
Elvis
One other thing I forgot to mention: the latest trend which seems to be happening parallels what computer printer makers have done to inkjet cartridges: taking steps to prevent third parties from rebuilding their packs by building some identification & usage data collection capability into the packs. Apparently the latest Milwaukee and Makita tools have some of these capabilities.
aerilus
common way to do this in electronics is with a simple resistor across some contacts apples does it with ipods/ipads so that other chargers wont work with them. if ipod dont see 100ohms acoss the two data lines on the usb wall charger they wont charge i would imagine that tool manufacturers didnt reinvent the wheel or put some elaborate smart id system in.
aerilus
there are actually several projects on thingaverse that almost directly address the original question
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:772345
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:244011
if anyone is really serious about testing I will print it out and mail it to you reply to this thread with an email and I will get up with you
bill
you guys know way way way more than I do on this subject as evident in your post, so I pose this to you all as a “yes” or “no” question (only because I understood about half of what you were talking about). Instead of making an adapter for tools, would it not be feasible to swap out name brand connections? For example: I would like a cordless shop vac but Makita doesn’t make one, Dewalt makes a nice corded/cordless one- could I take out a Dewalt battery connection on tool and wire in Makita battery connection–maybe even just wire in + and – so tool works (18v=18v)?
Brad
For the most part the answer is yes, as long as the two brands have the voltage monitoring in the battery rather than in the tool. Most notably, DeWalt has the voltage monitoring in the tool for the 20V Max line, so things get more challenging with cross-breading that line.
That said, how do you plan to physically attach the battery to the tool? It’s one thing to make something work on the bench, but it doesn’t work out too well having a drill with a battery hanging in the wind attached via some jumper cables.
bill
thanks for the reply brad
the brands i would like to cross are makita (batteries, as I own just about all their tools) and dewalt (dcv581h vacuum)
i was thinking that i could hot melt/ epoxy a connection (from an old makita drill i kept for parts when it died) to the vacuum. doesn’t have to be pretty or ergonomic, just has to work. hardwire the connection in. I make it sound like I know what I am doing but I am sure there will be some smoke and sparks involved before I am done. thanks for any advice for this adventure
Tim Zhun
Broadcast video cameras and higher end DSLR still photography cameras use batteries that can transfer over to upgraded cameras so one doesn’t have to dump a collection of batteries from previous cameras. My current Panasonic 3100 camera uses Anton Bauer Gold mounts, the same as my old Sony Betacam camera from 25 years ago. My Canon 7d uses a LP-E6 battery. the same as the newer 7d and all the 5d’s, 60D and 70D. The 1D line has maintained their own size through the years. I’m sure Nikon does the same. Why can’t tool manufacturers, at least with their pro level tools, maintain compatibility so one doesn’t have to dump their old batteries when upgrading tools.
Stuart
Because battery pack technology has changed vastly in the past few years.
Especially at the pro level, competition is a huge motivation factor. If you don’t move with the times, you fall behind.
Slowburn
Looks like some people are trying to do exactly what the OP asked about with an open source implementation. Here is Bosch >> Porter Cable
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1497614
another implementation example given Makita>>Ryobi nailer
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:244011
I haven’t gone this far yet although I have cannibalized a NEW HFT drill battery into an old Porter Cable 12v drill that I had loved. Getting to dissect the HFT you could see how cheaply corners could be cut compared to the 12 year old Porter Cable.
I am eyeing up the 12v HFT lithium power pack ($20) in place of the brick that is in there now.
Slowburn
also meant to include some articles on Instructables http://www.instructables.com/id/BlackDecker-adapter-for-Ryobi-Battery/
I think the bottom line is most people pick a line of tools based on a battery family, like in my case I have 7 cordless tools from DeWalt, but there are a few other tools for which DeWalt doesn’t have a product or there offering is not as preferred as that from another vendor.
greyghost
For What it is worth: All of the recent 18-20v battery packs I have serviced use industry standard 18650 Li-ion cells (various brands..Sanyo, Panasonic, etc.)
Even the Tesla autos use them ( something on the order of 10,000 per vehicle)!
Brad
I don’t doubt that, but for the purposes of this discussion it’s largely irrelevant. I suppose the only way it might be relevant is if you were considering using brand X LiON charger with brand Y LiON battery. But even then, I’d be concerned there might be something else going on with the way one battery pack charger does things vs. another.
I’ve always said I don’t mind investing in the charger, I just want to have one battery platform to work with. I have that now, using the B&D/Craftsman 20V Max batteries with my Dewalt 18V tools and the B&D/Craftsman 20V Max tools.
Travis Fair
I work at a battery shop and I can assure you that 90% have all the sales that I take out of those are made by LG are exactly the same some have different capacity the thin packs versus the thick packs. Running a series parallel to get more capacity now there are some with lesser Amp hour rating but most you can safely draw 15-20 amps
DeeJay
Not sure if I can post a link but I found this Ridgid 18v to Mil M18 adapter for $50 on Etsy…. looks like they are made in this guy’s kitchen tho.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/620719778/rigid-18v-battery-to-m18-adapter
JB
eBay has all kinds of adapters now!