My 6+ year old Chevy Equinox is gaining in miles, and I’m losing faith in its reliability. It’s also become a little too small for our needs. Plus, there are new safety features I want to take advantage of.
I’m also tried of receiving “hey, we discovered something that could be wrong with your car” notices that Chevy seems to send out every few months. The car left us stranded on Thanksgiving, due to one of those “early wear” issues that became reality at the worst possible time, but ironically one I never received notice about.
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Anyways, so I started researching vehicles.
I went from looking at same-class crossover SUVs, then 2-row and 3-row midsize SUVs, back to same-class compact SUVs. I haven’t a clue what I want.
I started off thinking I want more storage capacity, but I don’t want a huge SUV, and the midsize ones aren’t very appealing. Most brands have poured their time and energies into their compact SUV offerings.
I need a good amount of storage capacity, though. Enough for a portable table saw, a toolbox, maybe a miter saw too. Enough for a trip to the grocery store. Enough for a full-sized stroller and anything else.
Seriously, our stroller takes up maybe 85% of my cargo space.
95% of what I need is a daily driver with modest storage capacity.
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If I need to transport a lot of sheet goods, I’ll rent a truck from HD or U-Haul, or get it delivered from the lumber yard.
A trailer hitch would be nice, but the most I’d connect is a bike rack, and we’re years away from going anywhere with our mountain bikes.
Looking at IIHS and NHTSA safety ratings helped to narrow things down, but I feel like I haven’t narrowed things down at all.
None of the brands and models I’m interested in earn top safety scores from both testing bodies. Acura and Volvo SUVs seem to earn top safety marks, but that’s quite a bit more than I was looking to spend.
I also looked at reviews, but they are all over the place. In a lot of cases, it sounds like many reviewers were tasked with evaluating an SUV after driving around in sports car after sports car.
I went to a few dealerships to see if I can narrow down what I like and don’t like, and will soon test drive the few that make my shortlist.
Mazda CX-5: Everyone highly recommends it, but I can’t help but feel that it’s barely larger than the Mazda 3, which I find a little too cozy. I checked it out at a dealership, and will try for a test driver later in the week.
I know there’s a new CX-9 coming out, but I don’t think I want to wait. I also don’t like buying the first of a model redesign, a lesson I learned with the Equinox.
Toyota Rav4: I really liked what I saw at the dealership, and will also seek to test drive one this weekend. The rear seats fold down really low, except in the Hybrid version – which is surprisingly only a little more expensive – and the cabin felt roomy overall. The cargo capacity is my main concern.
The electric storm blue color looked AMAZING.
But if I want something bigger than my Equinox, will I be happier with something a little smaller? I love that the RAV4’s rear seats fold down really low, and easily too, but in the past 1-2 years it has usually been easier for me to find another way to get bulky stuff from place to place than to remove and reinstall the car seat.
On family roadtrips, we might just have to figure out how to pack lighter.
The Cars.com car seat check showed impressive results for the Rav4.
Hyundai Tucson: I’ve read good things about the Tucson, and it gets points for having an “Android Auto” infotainment connectivity, so that I can feed directions to the large LCD from my phone.
Speaking of which – that’s one of the reasons researching new cars has been weighing on me. It’s not just does it drive well?
Can the car accommodate a carseat easily without forcing the driver or passenger to move up?
Is the “infotainment” system effortless to use?
And then there are the few features that I don’t think I would be happy without. Most of these I have in my Equinox, but others I’ve developed the need for.
They’re luxuries, but ones I really, really don’t want to give up if I don’t have to.
- Auto-dimming mirror
- Automatic headlights
- Keyless start
- Powered liftgate
I’m also eager for blindspot warning alert. With my Equinox, it can sometimes be hard to check the blind spot. I’d be willing to give collision-mitigating auto-braking a try.
Some of these features launch me into higher-up trim levels. With some of the cars, which only offer certain upgrades as part of a pricey package or trim level upgrade, I might be better off looking at an entry-level luxury car instead. I might look at the Acura RDX for giggles (the dealership is on the way to the Toyota dealership), but as mentioned it’s more than I want to spend right now.
Nissan Murano: The Rogue is a little too compact-feeling for me, although the current design is a LOT better than the one I sat in years ago before I decided on the Equinox. But the Murano? It looks perfect.
But then I saw it at the dealership. It had a much larger cargo area, but it seemed smaller height-wise. It looks like I could stack things a lot shallower before it overflowed over the tops of the rear seats. There are features in the rear area I don’t need, like independently controlled heated seats.
I read that rear visibility is poor. What I didn’t read was that front visibility was horrible. No matter how I adjusted the seat, there were 2 configurations. Very bad visibility, or poor visibility with a sense of claustrophobia.
The salesman said something about the Rogue being more a car for women. But I felt while the Rogue was a little narrow, it had good headroom. The Murano was wider, but little headroom, and even with the seat raised, titled back a little, with the wheel at full extension, the dash and hood were too high and covered too much of my view.
It was like being in a car with a slightly too-small window.
When I first saw the Murano in the early 2000’s, I was in love. The new styling is a little… unconventional, but I could live with it.
My Equinox is a little masculine looking, if you ask me. The Murano, maybe not so much. But it doesn’t matter if I like how it looks on the outside, or not. Because I can’t see the road over the bulging hood!
If you can’t tell, I’m pretty disappointed about this. I thought the Murano would be the perfect answer to all my needs, but it’s just all wrong.
Subaru Forester: I’ve heard a lot about the Subaru, and shortlisted the Forester. It was shortlisted last time too. But at the Subaru dealership, I had 30 seconds to actually look over the car. Then the salesmen drove it out because someone had bought it.
I’ll go to a further dealership later in the week.
In the few seconds I spent with the vehicle, I saw that it had a very spacious cargo capacity, and also the rear doors opened really wide, almost at a right angle. I’ve put long bulky stuff in the rear compartment of my car lots of times, and getting it out, past the door, has been a repeated struggle.
Honda Pilot: I don’t need a 3-row SUV, but really want a little more space. But no minivan. From what I’ve read, the Pilot is minivan-esque.
Due to the positive opinions of reviewers, I just might have to give it a try. I can’t discount it based on its looks.
Ford Edge: The Edge didn’t earn top safety ratings, so I’m hesitant to even consider it. The same goes for the Explorer. There aren’t a lot of midsize 2-row SUVs, and so I’m hesitant to rule out the Edge before giving it fair consideration.
For what it’s worth, the Edge had top ratings via NHTSA testing, but not IIHS. In the IIHS tests, it received “acceptable” front short overlap crash rating, instead of “good.”
Toyota Highlander: While I was looking at the RAV4, I checked out the Highlander, which has oodles of space, and lots of nice little touches, like built-in rear window sun shades. It worked a lot better than crappy aftermarket ones, but it’s also one more thing to break.
Toyota 4Runner: *Drool!* But it looked to be too much for me, both in terms of too much car, and too much money. The cargo capacity was great! But I don’t need an off-road vehicle, I need a family car. Preferably one with space for lots of cargo and that’s comfortable and fun to drive. This doesn’t fit the bill. I’m still going to test drive it when I test the RAV4, because why not.
Chevy Equinox: I could buy another Equinox, but there doesn’t seem to have been much redesign since 2010. I heard a redesign is forthcoming, and it’ll be a reduction in size. Plus, I want something new and different. I’d look at the Terrain, but like the Equinox it’s also badly in need of a refresh.
*SIGH* Decisions, decisions. There will be plenty of opportunities for my next vehicle to be a fun one. Right now, I need utility, capabilities, storage, safety.
And no, I didn’t forget to add a truck to the list. I’m just not ready for one right now.
Surely I’m not the only one shopping for a small or midsize SUV right now. Which direction did you go in, or are going in?
No minivan!!
Argh! Things were so much easier last time.
Kent
Subaru all the way.
Adam
I drove either 2 Outbacks or 2 Foresters (I can’t exactly remember, it was for a test drive promotion), but what I do recall is that you got to get the Turbo model. Such a difference.
I did like the Suburus, and would consider it in the future, but for now I I am quite happy with my Toyota 4Runner, & would probably always look at them first when looking. I do tow things once in a while, and do need the power that the Suburu seemed to be lacking.
Drew M
Take a look at the Outback. It’s almost an SUV and now both the Forester and the Outback have the same CVT drivetrain.
I have a Ford Escape and, well, I’ll never buy a Ford again.
But it's me!
2000 Forester with 200K miles on it, so I recommend Subaru as well. My sister purchased an Outback last year and loves it. Our Toyota Sienna has burned us on Toyota — 2 A/C compressors, air bag warning light never repaired properly under warranty, getting recall work done takes months with our local dealer, etc!
P
Hmm, our friends have had the opposite problems, their 2005 Subaru Legacy runs fine, but every service seems to find something wrong, and work costs 3-4 times what it does for any of my Toyota’s (2003 Corolla and a 2007 Matrix).
Scottthetec
I hate to break it to you, but if you have 200k on the motor it’s on the way out. We have about 23 Forresters at work, and all the motors go just over 200k.
Also, DO NOT get the automatic. Subie autos are front wheel drive and drive like one. They also use a Haldex controller for the rear wheels. The sticks are RWD and the AWD system uses either a viscous coupler or a plate clutch that sends power to the front wheels and is much more reliable and predictable.
schill
It looks like most Subaru manual transmission defaults to 50:50 front:rear. The CVT versions default to 60:40 front:rear according to one source (70:30 in another I’ve seen). That’s not that big a difference (and I came to Subaru from RWD cars).
My 2001 Outback had 219,000 miles on it. The motor was not the reason I replaced it (although I did have head gasket issues that were fixed – which was common for a number of model years).
I’ve been perfectly happy with the performance of the my 2001 and 2015 automatics. I have had no issues where I thought the AWD was not performing the way I wanted it to (although I have not done any serious off road driving). Driving the Subarus, I don’t really feel like I’m driving a FWD or RWD vehicle. It just feels like a car that is sticking to the road.
I came to Subaru from a ’92 Jeep Cherokee. One of the reasons I did not get another Jeep at the time was because I was not happy with Jeep’s then-current 4WD options.
Of course, every car and driver are different.
Charles Stopczynski
Purchased a 2011 Subaru Outback new, love it. Joy to drive. Don’t get me wrong my Tundra is the very best truck I’ve ever owned. The Subaru is just a blast to drive, most people do not push FWD vehicles the way they’re capable of being driven. The AWD Subaru Outback is much more of a vehicle to drive. Would love to upgrade to all their latest safety upgrades. Their stopping distance being the best on the market!
Pas
If you were rational about this you would seriously consider a minivan – just saying: logistically given the needs you outline there’s no reason for the SUV given the space considerations you’re after. And in things like a Toyota Sienna you’re getting a Lexus sourced engine really – a very, very reliable option.
That said, I get the penchant for anything but van.
Do look at the Subaru for sure. You might want to look at the Ford Flex or Dodge Durango (some good towing muscle here).
Stuart
My sister just bought a minivan, and I think she’s pleased with it. I can definitely see the appeal of sliding doors too.
For me, it’s not so much the stigma that makes me hesitant, but the size.
I considered Dodge, but their Journey and Durango safety ratings leave something to be desired.
Kurt
I have a 2002 Chrysler Town and Country with 155K on it. It has been a rock solid vehicle for me. Reliable, plenty of power, decent mileage, and very comfortable to drive. (I drove an earlier version coast to coast a couple of times) I can haul plywood or my large ship models to the lake., or carry 7 people, or combinations of both.
As for size, it fits comfortably in my garage. I intend to replace it in 2 years, but after doing some research and considering my needs, I will probably replace it with another minivan – the new Pacifica seems nice, or I like the Honda Odyssey.
Bruce
Safety ratings are stupid. When was the last time you got in a real wreck? Sure it can happen but it’s so rare as to be worth ignoring. Stop wrapping yourself in cotton and get the vehicle that actually fulfills your needs.
Stuart
What about seat belts and air bags – do you think they’re stupid too?
David Meyer
Just get a minivan.. we got a Honda Odyssey and love it. If you don’t need off road capability, get the minivan. They are not much bigger than SUV’s, but the storage space is much large. The passenger spaces are also larger, and much more configurable.
BonPacific
Only six years? Yikes, that Chevy is really earning its reputation. I’m sure you’ve heard this before, but Toyota and Honda really pay you back over time. Subaru’s are great vehicles, but everyone I know who drives one complains about how expensive repairs are.
The 4runners are nice. But visibility isn’t great at short distances, since the styling of the hood interferes. They also have really bad headroom with the sunroof (I’m 6’1″ and brush the roof in my boss’s).
Are you only looking for new cars?
Stuart
Yes, only new.
I’ve been very pleased with my Equinox, but in addition to the other wants, and my lack of trust in its reliability, I’m hoping for more power. Either a more spritely same-class vehicle, or more powerful bigger one.
I think that right now the Rav4 and Highlander are at the top of my shortlist. I’m going to check out the Tuscon again, and also find another Subaru dealership to check out the Forester.
I’ll need to test drive the CX-5, but I have hesitations about how slightly cramped it feels, although that could be due to how closely it looks like my wife’s 3. It just didn’t feel like it would be comfortable for long trips. It could be my imagination, but I felt like it needed more leg support.
Richard G.
Highlander is the way to go in your case, I think. This is pretty much a Lexus RX350 but without some amenities, Limited version is coming close though. You will have quite reliable, spacious enough car with towing abilities and, if needed, you can order all wheel drive.
Outback 3.5 will work as well, great car, but you need to have their dealership nearby just in case.
Whatever you choose, look at the car 10 years from now. How the same cars looks now , what issues they have, how do you feel when looking at them, you will have an idea
Stuart
I just saw that there’s an update coming out for 2017. If the Highlander comes out on top, I might just wait until the new one comes out in the Fall.
Jon
You are comparing Chevy Ford and Dodge to Toyota Mazda and Honda?
Honestly to make a tools related comparison – domestic brands of vehicles are like the Ryobi and Black and Decker brand of tools. Many many people buy them and do just fine with them, but if you start talking about overall value or total cost of ownership there is no comparison.
For example GMC will make a Cadillac using the same lower end and less refined drive train as their cheaper Chevy or GM offering. Meanwhile Toyota for example does the opposite and makes Toyota branded models using higher end more refined drive train from Lexus models.
Jim Felt
Jon.
While your analogy is pretty darn spot on it’s hard for most consumers to get past their prejudices, assumptions, familiarity and even familial experiences.
How else would poorly rated cars (using simple fact based statistics) continue to sell?
And look at your Cadillac Escalade v. Chevrolet Suburban comparison. Or technically RR with a BMW engine…
Ain’t consumer marketing a hoot?
Pas
Stuart, true enough. Was just thinking something like the Honda Pilot and Mazda CX-5 are somewhat different creatures size-wise (and otherwise). On that smaller end, I confess I’m partial to the Forester – if only because the ‘06 I had was as dependable as one could ever expect of a car and will probably be my choice again in the near future. Very good rear/side visibility in those by the way .
Justin
Maybe check out Jeeps offerings. They offer a lifetime warranty that you can buy online from a few large Chrysler Jeep dealerships, or you can buy the warranty at the local dealership. You can negotiate the price.
Stuart
I was going to, until I saw the safety ratings.
John
Is there any reason the Nissan Pathfinder isn’t on the list? Its not *that* much bigger than the Murano. Certainly more headroom and better visibility than the Murano though. Looks like its being skewed towards the “van” side than “car” side of crossover SUV. Nissan killed off the Xterra starting 2016 oddly enough which mighta also been a good option perhaps you can get an 2015 still for a good deal if that meets your fancy.
I have a 2007 Frontier, of which I have a 4 door crew cab version 6ft bed which I love to death. Bought it “new” with 9 thousand miles on it and I plan on driving it till the wheels fall off. Close to 100k miles on it right now and I’ve driven the hell out of it and through snow, woods, etc, and its given me no problems at all. I used to be a big Chevy guy, but after getting this, I’ll never go back to domestic brands again. Drives wonderful, most car like tight driving truck I’ve ever driven. That Frontier made me really eat some crow after defending Chevy for so long. The added features and options that come standard on the Nissan were all (if available at all) after market or expensive add ons are the reason why the domestic brands are doing so terrible. Its amazing that domestic trucks don’t come standard with a bed liner for goodness sakes, rails, etc that clearly the imports have figured out are important and include.
Stuart
I’d prefer a 2-row vs. a 3-row if possible. But if the Highlander ends up on top of my shortlist, I’ll give other 3-rows like the Pathfinder a bit more research.
Jeff
Just traded in an explorer for a sienna. The explorer had room for multiple strollers plus groceries… Tons of room. Just needed something more reliable so off we went to get a sienna. Surprisingly it isn’t much bigger on the outside, seems twice as big on the inside and can turn on a dime.
Bill K
Outback….. Safety, quality, dependablity, hard to beat! Check out Consumers Reports reviews. I’ve owned 5!
Ken
I love my Forester. I loved my last one too until I got rear-ended by a teenager not paying attention. I was pretty much unhurt. More than I can say about the car though – it did its job. I can fit 10 foot long trim pieces or 8 foot 2x4s in the thing as long as there are no other pssengers.
I am never buying another mazda again if my life depended on it. It ate tires like they were going out of style. It had many issues. Some that we had to take back multiple times to resolve under warrenty. After fighting with two seperate dealers about fixing it I gave up and traded it in for a honda.
I have only good things to say about owning a honda.
Szymon
I know you said no minivans, but they are GREAT.
I am on my third one in the past 8 years as a company car.
It is the Dodge Grand Caravan. No the prettiest one of them all but the most practical if you have the stow-n-go which mine does.
I have done many renos, moves, camping trips, large costco runs etc with this thing.
If you fold the seats down, you can fit a sheet of 4 X 8 matieal no porblem.
I managed to bring 30+ sheets of plywood and drywall with this for my basement reno.
I like it so much that I am trying to convince my wife to replace the 2013 CRV with a minivan. It would not be the Caravan as I do not like its look but either a Sienna or Oddesey as they are much more ‘attractive’
It is just a stigma of a minivan that is holding you back.
Im sure others can say that they. Once you get one you ask yourself why you waited so long. They are the best
When our daughter was little (before we had the CRV we had a Golf) I wouldn’t even need to fold the stroller. It would just roll into the back of the minivan as it was for regular use with a child in it.
Joe
Here is my advice to neone buying ne car. Dont listen to magazines they r biased. Go test drive all the ones u like then talk to an independant mechanic u trust not one at a dealership thats been in business awhile. If they r good they will kno which cars will last a long time and which ones wont. My mechanic always tells me if u want a vehicle that will last a long time to buy a volkswagen or a subaru.
Rman
Having many issues with Chevy I had to give up and traded it in for Honda Odessey van. Best choice I ever made no more Chevy excuses for poor engineering replaced by a roomy reliable car. I was an suv guy but with the room ride and reliability no hesitation to buy again. I have 119k will drive to 200k
Btw no kids but can put mil way in the back seat. Good luck
Regan
Just went through the same issue you are dealing with. We had a Terrain (same as equinox) and looked and tried out a pile in the end we decided on the Edge. The Edge is just a touch bigger than the Equinox/Terrain and is extremely well equipped. I can now fit a stroller length wise in the back of it and still have space to go. The 4cyl. ecoboost absolutely destroys the inline 4 from GM and the frigging thing comes with a 2inch hitch receiver. You’ll like SYNC3 and Android Auto is due out this year for it. I was shocked being a hardcore GM guy I liked the Ford enough to even try out one of their pickups.
Stuart
Thanks, I’ll head out today to look at the Edge. It is on my considerations list, mainly since it’s one of few midsize 2-doors, but its Acceptable IIHS rating for short overlap front crashes still has me a little hesitant.
Chris
Don’t be too hung up on the “acceptable” for the offset crash test… It’s a great vehicle and the chances of it doing much worse in a wreck is minimal
Allen
My wife has 37K on her 2013 Cherokee, no problems whatsoever. She gets 25+mpg, I check the computer when I get a chance to drive it.
There was a new transmission that year and we bought the lifetime drivetrain warrentee. We keep our vehicles 150k or more.
Travis
At 37K miles there should be no problems whatsoever. Don’t get too excited from what should be expected of any new car. It’s a Jeep, You will have problems arise.
JML
You owe it to yourself to check out the Volvo XC90, even if the price is beyond your budget.
Drew Hall
What about the Volkswagen Tiguan???
Drew
Or even a Touareg, but more expensive. Gas models of course haha.
Cr8ondt
I personally have little experience with small SUVs except for a Mazda MPV (SUV? Mini van?) It’s currently taking up space in my back yard with a charging system issue (replaced alt, starter and battery). I have a friend that owns 2 Suburu Foresters and loves them, 1st one he got used then he got a job that included a vehicle allotment so he got a new one. My son is a mechanic for Ford and says he hates when an Escape is on his rack, just hard to work on.
schill
I’m on my second Subaru Outback and I’ve been very happy with both. The first was a 2001. I replaced it a year ago after 219,000 miles.
I bought a 2015 Outback to replace it (it just turned 1 year old a week ago). Last year, the waiting list for Outbacks was very long. It took about a month for me to get my car, and that was one that was already on the dealer’s delivery list – not a custom order. They seem to be easier to get now – the plant in Indiana has been ramping up production – that must be working.
There are two engine options – I got the lower one and have been perfectly happy with it. It’s not the same as the larger engine but it’s quite a bit cheaper.
If you are interested in safety features, you should definitely be looking at Subaru. I have Eyesight and the blind spot detection system.
I have never liked to use cruise control, but with active cruise control (through Eyesight) I use it all the time. Having the car actively adjust to traffic is a nice improvement.
The blind spot detection works very well in my Outback. It detects rapidly approaching cars in addition to cars in your blind spot. The cross traffic check when you are backing out of a parking space is also very good – it has detected people (including children) as well as cars.
Before my first Subaru, I had a 1992 Jeep Cherokee. I really liked that car and planned on getting another Jeep when I needed to replace it. Jeep didn’t have anything available that I liked at that time and I got a Subaru. Now, I haven’t seen much reason to change. I checked other cars last year and nothing seemed to work as well for me.
schill
I wanted to add that the visibility outside from the driver’s seat is very good. You can turn your head and see things easily. I’ve rented quite a few cars, trucks, and small suvs for work and I’m constantly annoyed when I turn my head and can’t see clearly.
Also, something else to check in general: how big is the display for the backup camera (if it has one)? I’ve rented cars with large displays in the dash that use only a tiny portion of it for the image. The 7″ display in my Subaru is filled with the image – it makes a big difference.
peelman
The wife and I are planning on getting a Grand Cherokee at the end of this month. Trading in her 2008 Mazda 3, which we hope to outgrow completely soon. Between the diesel option (additional power and towing, the same or better fuel mileage as the gas V6) and the creature comforts available, I haven’t found anything that matches it in the year or so I’ve been researching. I have never been a fan of the aesthetics of Toyota, Nissan, or Honda. I love our Mazdas, but the CX5 is too small and the CX9 has never impressed me. I miss the CX7. The European imports are just too damned expensive, plain and simple. VW, Volvo, BMW, Mercedes. Once you start optioning them out, they flat out leave the ballpark of the domestics and asians in terms of options.
Ford Edge is ok; but the options and ergonomics aren’t great. As a nerd, the Jeep holds the edge (i think) in the technology department). Same with the Explorer. Chevy’s unibody SUVs haven’t impressed me. Enox/Terrain is too small, and the Traverse/Acadia is too bulby/ugly, and my wife doesn’t like the size of the Tahoe (though I wouldn’t mind). I also don’t like the drive trains of any of of the above domestics; they either have crappy transmissions, crappy motors, or super-crappy AWD.
Anyway, that’s our reasoning. The Jeep is something that is going to be able to go in the snow, has pretty great safety features, and has a drivetrain that doesn’t make me want to only drive it off a cliff. They haven’t been without their issues, but recently, nothing has been “safe” from that perspective.
Norcal
Toyota Highlander are solid suv’s. Not small or too big. Your stuck because your expectations and wants are limited by your budget. I say spend a little more and be real happy with your purchase. You won’t regret it. My wife and I just bought a Lexus GX460 and love the truck. She says she can’t wait to drive it every day. Sure it was expensive but it has everything we wanted in an SUV. It can even tow 6500 lbs.
Benjamen
When it comes time to buy go to Costco Auto: https://www.costcoauto.com/ enter in your vehicle info and see if they have a discount program with any of your local dealers.
We saved almost $2000 off the base price, plus they have special pricing off all of the add-ons if you want to purchase those. For instance, it wasn’t my decision, but my wife bought the extended warranty at like a 30% discount. Savings vary depending on a number of variables. There are limitations, like they only work with certain sales people at certain dealers.
When you apply they give you the price you’ll pay, the dealer to go to, and you set up an appointment with a salesman.
I’m surprised Honda wasn’t on your list. Everybody in our neighborhood has either a Honda Oddessy or CRV and loves them. My wife had to replace her Jeep and she bought a CRV. While she misses her Jeep. The CRV has been rock solid. She’s put over 30,000 in year in a half and had Zero problems.
While it has a lot of cargo space and the back seats fold down for even more, I’ve never really had to test it. I just use my good old 2001 Silverado that just keeps on ticking.
I don’t know if this applies to all new cars or just Honda. We were supposed to get like 33 MPH highway, but for a while we were only getting in the middle 20s. Then gradually the mileage got better and when my wife does all highway driving she gets about 30, 31 now. I know the new CRVs are supposed to get 35 or better now. It really is nice getting that kind of mileage after the Jeep.
Benjamen
oops, the Pilot was there…
herp derpson
By 2020 small-suv’s will replace minivans in the “I don’t want a minivan” line everyone who should buy a minivan says. Mark my words.
A Focus (insert any small/medium car) with a small trailer ($300, harbor freight) fits your requirements for hauling people, tools and stuff. It also saves you monies and is better to drive the 90% of the time you aren’t hauling at tools and stuff.
herp derpson
And then take the $10k you saved and put it in a college fund or buy some land.
Derek
We have a CX-5 and love it. Enough room for our needs with a ~1 year old. BUT, strollers are so big now they don’t fit in the back. I wish the new CX-9 was available when we were in the market.
I’ll 2nd the Jeep offering. Don’t bother with the Cherokee, it’s smaller in the trunk than the CX-5, but the Wrangler Unlimited and Grand Cherokee are quite nice. The Wrangler has extremely usable space, making it seem like there’s more.
Check out the Volvo XC-70. It’s really a wagon but it’s marketed as a SUV. My mom has it, it fits car seats just fine. Enough room for strollers. in the back. I think if you fold the seats forward you can fit 6′ boards or ladders in the trunk.
fred
When my kids were growing up – we always owned a full-sized station wagon (Buick or Oldsmobile) plus a mid-sized sedan (usually an Olds or a Chevy). The combination was good – but GM quality back in the ’70’s and ’80’s left much (maybe even everything) to be desired. When the kids started driving – I had 5 Chevy’s lined up in the driveway – not because I liked them so much – but that was what I could afford to buy for the family. When they graduated college , I let them pick out (within my budget) a new car as a gradation gift – one after another they chose Honda’s – and I switched to having 2 Honda sedans as well – my latest one still has a new car smell – and something like 2000 miles on it. One of the kids just traded in the Accord EXL I bought her and bought a CRV touring . She likes it quite a bit – but its too new IMO to know how it will last. I’ve always bought my cars outright, kept them until I thought they might start being unreliable and traded them in on the next one. This strategy seems to be what you are doing – so you probably want reliability in what you buy – and my (admittedly anecdotal)experience is that the Honda brand delivers pretty well.
Maybe take a look at the CRV , the Pilot or even an Odyssey (my sister likes hers- but she leases so never gets to really test reliability) – and good luck.
Julian
Subarus are very popular here in Minnesota. When I sold my 2012 Subaru Forester I could not believe how much people were willing to pay me for it! It was a sturdy car, but the mileage wasn’t great due to the AWD.
I’m surprised you didn’t list the Honda CR-V on your list of considerations!
schill
On a recent trip with my 2015 Outback (2.5L, 24K miles), I got 33+ mpg with almost all highway driving (on adaptive cruise control most of the way). I think that’s pretty good for full time AWD. And it’s nice to go over 500 miles on a tank of gas.
Stuart
I suppose I’ll look over the CR-V when going to see the Pilot.
The Forester does a lot better in snow than the other options, but I think its AWD capabilities generally exceed my needs.
Nathan
I was in this same market last summer. Except for my wife mostly demanded 3 rows for her taxi service or whatever the smurf she is doing when not at work.
to that end I’ll make this recommendation first. go ahead and look for a tick bigger. IE you’re looking as a honda pilot and a highlander – but then have a equinox and ford edge on the list. as opposed to the traverse and the explorer.
or the flex. you should be able to get some good incentives on the flex and it has tonnes of room.
but – all that aside – if oyu can swing it – get over your selves on the whole mom mobile angle and get thee a minivan. namely a chrysler town and country. notice I say that and not the dodge grandcaravan. mostly because by the time to price them together and get any sort of features – just get the chrysler.
anyway – stow and go seats get out of their own way – goobs of room for crap. when the seats are up – there is storage in the floor. the rest of the device is decent, I know people with 14+ models that havn’t had issue one in 80K miles.
To that end – I couldn’t get my wife over her self and she wouldn’t even test drive a flex. or the town and country. so we ended up with an 2016 explorer vs a 2015 buick enclave (the incentives last summer around june were pretty awesome).
if I was picking just for me I’d have gotten either the town and country, the flex (as a sport model) or the ford transit connect was also a contender – but even I admit it’s a touch fugly.
Kevin
I was recently in the same situation- we ended up with a Subaru Outback. Great space, easy to clean interior, accommodates the car seat well (I can still sit in front of it at 6’1), excellent safety and reliability, not to mention AWD. Lastly, the pivoting crossbars on the roof make a Thule box or bike rack super easy to install and uninstall.
Patrick
I’ll mention that the Honda Pilot can fit full sized sheet goods based on my measurements at a local dealership. Big plus in my mind.
firefly
Stuart… get a Model X!
Unless you are concern about cost, then just go with a minivan. My daily driver is a minivan and I love it. I prefer the ride of the minivan to my SUV. As far as SUV I think the Pathfinder have the best seat configuration bar none. If you want a mini minivan then look at the Mazda 5.
Tom
It’s time to step up to a minivan:
http://jalopnik.com/if-youre-a-real-grown-up-minivans-are-cooler-than-cros-1764226230
RX9
Have you ever checked out the LTQI?
http://longtermqualityindex.com/
This site has a ton of info on long term vehicle quality, gleaned from the experiences of real owners.
My quick recommendations are to:
1. Avoid crossovers with CVT transmissions, like the Nissan Murano (which consistently presented problems by only 80K).
2. Avoid motors with turbochargers on them.
3. Avoid the WV Touareg like the plague.
4. Get a Toyota Highlander if you can afford it.
Ron
I have been visiting the website for over a year now and reading the great reviews on products. I appreciate the non bias reviews and what other people have to say. So I would like to say thank you to everyone for that. With that out of the way I got my wife a Honda Pilot a few years ago. She has beaten the snot out of it and it still looks brand new. We have two kids and live in northeast Ohio. Also the location we live is by Lake Erie so we have to deal with a wonderful thing called Lake effect snow. Thae pilot has performed really well in all different types of snow. It’s AWD and has a ton of room in it. I drive a Honda Crv and that thing is a tank also. We use to only use to drive Fords but after seeing how the hold up, I will never go back.
Tim
4runner all the way.
The rav4s are not all that good a vehicle. I have never talked to anyone who really liked their rav4
Noone ever buys a hyundai twice. Probably a reason for that.
As an aside you may want to look at a Durango, theyre being discontinued this year and are really nice vehicles. Up here you can pick up an almost $50k loaded durango new off the dealer for somewhere in the mid 20s.
Wifes next vehicle will ve a 4runner though. Good luck.
DH
We just went through this last year. We were replacing my wife’s 1999 Accord (220K miles on it) and were looking through our options. Another sedan for her? A new SUV for me and her driving the other one (we already have a 2006 Pilot)? One of our requirements was 3 rows – we have 3 kids and wanted the extra room for friends or the grandparents when they come over so we don’t have to take 2 vehicles everywhere. The only SUVs that matched our criteria were huge (Expedition, Yukon XL/Suburban, Mercedes BlueTEC, Sequoia) and expensive.
Well, we decided to go with a minivan, a 2013 Odyssey, and it’s awesome. The new SUVs looked like a minivan anyways. We have 2 kids in the middle and left seats in the middle row (still in 5-point harnesses) and the oldest sits in the back with the right passenger middle seat removed – easy to put back in if we need the 8th seat. The 3rd row easily flips into the floor if I need it. The double stroller easily fits back there with the seats up. Both in the Pilot and with the 3rd row folded down in the minivan I can get 4×4 sheets in there with the tailgate closed. Also, since we keep the 8th seat out, it’s 8 feet from the back of the passenger seat to the tailgate, so I can get plenty of 2x in there (and have put 8 foot plywood that Lowes ripped to 24″ width for me a couple of weeks ago).
You get Honda reliability, much better gas mileage compared to SUVs. Now that I’ve been driving it for 6 months, I’m hooked on the blind spot detection, the sliding power doors and the backup camera. It’s weird driving the other car without it. The biggest drawback for me is that it drives like a car. I had an F-150 and the Pilot prior to it and like the feeling of driving the truck/SUV.
Anyways, just thought I’d throw it out there, I was pretty much anti getting a minivan before this.
Tim
I too have a 2013 Odyssey and love it. You know if you fold down the third row seats, and remove the 2nd row seats; you can fit full 4X8 sheet goods in the back. We have a 3 year old and a 6 month old. The odysseys and sienna’s are just made for families with kids. They are great. Driver and passenger have plenty of room with car seats installed. We have a DVD player for the kids on long trips. But they don’t drive like mini vans used to. They drive like sedans. GO TEST DRIVE ONE STUART!!! You owe it to yourself to drive one. And take a car seat with you to put in some of the other cars. Don’t just guess that you will still have legroom up front.
Tim
I forgot to add, the toyota sienna comes in an All Wheel Drive version if you live in snow country.
DH
I figured I could fit the full 4×8 sheet in there, just haven’t needed to… yet 🙂
We went another year older so we could get the fully loaded Touring Elite for a few of the features – the memory seats are great, I’m 9 inches taller than my wife. The DVD player is a must for the long trips. And yeah, it drives just like an Accord. Tons of leg room all around, one of the things I researched was 3rd row leg room, the Odyssey and Sienna had the most, more than Suburban or Expedition.
We went with the Honda because I’m partial to them (owned a 88 Accord, 01 Acura CL, 99 Accord and the 06 Pilot) because we like to keep our cars for a long time and not spend a ton on fixing them.
Les.Shelest
Rav4 is very roomy and good enough for a family trips, it is quite roomy too, but It’s definitely too small for construction workers stuff.
Highlander is pretty much the same + little bit more cargo space, but it’s too much carlike. It’s very soft… It doesn’t feel manly enough.
4Runner is great. Drives like truck, have huge space for cargo and sturdy enough to haul.
I would think about tightening a belt, but getting the best out of options.
Mazda is shit, Murano too.
Never tried Pilot, or Forester. Heard they are great.
Good luck.
RX9
You will get some people campaigning for you to get a minivan. Some folks will tell you about the myriad virtues of a wagon. Other folks will try to tell you that a crew cab pickup is great. I’m a dedicated SUV enthusiast myself, and as much as I love my full-size SUV, I understand there are quite a few folks who just aren’t cut out for it.
You are in the market for a crossover and that’s ok. I also see that you want a new one, so it looks like the reliability question is going to be really about warranty terms in your case.
My suggestion is to test drive a few different models until you have a shortlist of cars you would be happy with. Then get written numbers from each dealer that stocks those models.
1. Final Sale Price (tax&fees included)
2. Financing terms (length & APR)
3. Trade-in Value
Above all, don’t be afraid to walk.
Nathan
OH and one other thing – modern center stack layouts for some people suck.
I didn’t like nor would I inflict Idrive or the new mercedes thing on my wife.
touch sense buttons for radio and HVAC controls also suck pretty hard – especially if you happen to be moving and in the PAX seat.
So another swing toward the explorer for us – was the buttons included and the way the steering wheel controls worked.
Tom
One suggestion for you….. go to your local Carmax to look at cars with your son. They will have all similar-sized cars lined up. Tell him to open all the doors and get in and out of the cars. Watch him to see if there is a car that is easier or tougher.
I did this with my kids and subtle differences that I probably wouldn’t notice become apparent fast…. like the floor being another inch off the ground. That made getting in tougher for my two year old. Good to know.
The Ami
Top picks, not in order, Subaru, Honda, or the Toyota. They are all reliable and you can actually have some residual resale value if you choose to sell it for whatever reason. That right there tells you what others have experienced driving these makes of vehicles.
As far as amenities, you’ll have to figure all those out for yourself, no one knows you and your family better. I don’t know where you live, but here in the Portland metro area the dealers come out with loss leaders on Friday to try and drive sales over the weekend. The cars they choose aren’t always *strippies*, some being well appointed vehicles.
Buy the car at the end of the month, they have quotas and bonuses to meet, they’ll be more likely to sell you the car for a $1 over what they paid for it.
Good luck!!!
Dan
Check out the Subaru Outback!
I have a 2013 and it is perfect. Eyesight is a really great safety feature, lots of room (no problem with a car seat behind me and I am 6.4), decent performance if you get the 3.6, decent mileage if you get the 2.5.
Bob
I have a 2004 Honda Pilot with 135K miles on it. I love it. For Doctor Who fans, it’s like the Tardis…a lot bigger on the inside than you would think from the outside. When it dies, I will consider a new Pilot, even though the MPG isn’t great. I recently drove a 2015 Honda CR-V and I really liked it. If my son, who is 6’7″ [and the reason I got the Pilot!] can fit in the CR-V, I might get that. It has a lot less space in the trunk, though, but it gets great MPG.
Brett
Why on earth would you not want a minivan? They’re the best. Comfortable, reasonably efficient, and you can put more or less anything in them. I have never had a car that makes me feel more ready to handle whatever cargo/carrying situation I may encounter, and on a website that has multiple posts discussing every day carry scissors I feel like that should count, probably more than whether it makes you look cool to drive it.
Stuart
How it looks isn’t anywhere near my primary concern.
I’m not too seriously looking at 3 row vehicles (yet?), and isn’t a minivan even larger?
It can be difficult for me to park the Equinox in some lots, space-wise.
With the 3rd row up, there’s no a lot of cargo space in a midsized SUV. With the third row down, there’s more space than I’ll need, and possibly a sacrifice in 2nd row space.
I’ll look at a minivan or two, maybe the Odyssey when I look at the Pilot.
John Blair
Here is my two cents. The price difference between the Pilot and the Odyssey really is “Pay more so you aren’t driving a minivan”. They are the same vehicle but the Pilot costs more.
I love the Odyssey. Fold the rear seat down into the floor and you can move all the tools you want in it. Take the middle seats out and you can fit 4×8 drywall or plywood. Remodeling is so much cheaper when you can put a tarp down in the back fill the thing to the brim with junk and dump it yourself instead of renting a dumpster.
The automatic sliding doors are also a plus.
Christopher Luce
I suggest you at least test drive Volkswagen and Mercedes. Volkswagen has a bad rep for their diesel cheating scandal ( I seriously doubt they are the only ones though), but their engineering is top-notch. Their 1.8L Turbo (gas) is incredible, consistently delivering better than claimed mileage numbers (38-40 MPG @ steady 75MPH) in my 2014 Passat.
Mercedes has also put a ton of work into their SUVs. Both brands are worth a look. If VW doesn’t fit your image, don’t forget you can usually get the same thing in a premium version from Audi.
David
Another vote for a minivan. We have a 2009 Odyssey that has hauled everything from tag sale finds to everything needed for an art show with boxes, tents, tables, etc. Rides and handles well. Great trip/travel vehicle with the in-laws. Comfortable, too. And we don’t have kids.
Go rent one for a week and don’t look back.
Thanks for a great site.
Carl Sampson
Another vote for checking out a Honda CR-V. Reliable and roomy for the size.
Another option instead of a minivan would be a smaller truck with a crew cab such as a Nissan Frontier. Put a bed cap on that and that will give you the more tool hauling capacity than any of the SUV’s without the need to fold down the second row seats.
Toolboxhero
We have a new Grand Caravan as the primary and a Subaru Forester as the backup for the wife when I am out on the road. Did you know the Grand Caravan is only 4 inches larger than the Subaru? You don’t realize that until you park them side-by-side.
My “pickup” is a 2004 Grand Caravan. I have the seats out and it will hold 4X8 sheets of plywood and 10 foot 2X12’s with the rear hatch closed. Plus I can easily haul 1000 lbs of bagged stuff like mulch.
Conor
I have a 2011 Toyota Rav4 and have been pleasantly surprised with how much cargo I can fit in it. With the back row up, I can easily fit 3 adults and a dog, plus (citing a recent example) a fold-up wheelchair likely the size of your stroller, a compound miter saw, a Dewalt contractor’s table saw, and a box of paint and painting supplies. Back row flat and it sleeps two!
Pros:
-Reliable. Have done nothing but consumables (oil, pads, tires, filters) at 100,000 miles. Will likely be doing rotors front and rear in ~10,000 miles.
-Plenty of storage
-Good safety ratings
Cons:
-Bland driving experience. Gutless engine and tranmission is slow to shift, would never want to tow anything with it.
-You tend to hear more valvetrain noise than exhaust note, which is occasionally concerning. The 2.5L 4 cyl had some issues in the later 2000s with broken intake gears, which made a rattle at cold start. Something to keep an eye on since the newer 4 cyl engines share significant heritage
-New models put the spare tire under the trunk, so you lose my favorite storage spot for keeping jack stands, spare fluids, jumper cables, etc.
Nick
Please whatever you do you buy from an American company.
james d
im all for “buy american” but not at the expense of safety recalls frequent repairs etc.. its just common sense im not gonna buy an inferior product just because its made in the usa especially when my families life literally depends on it everyday
Dan
Subaru Outback is made in US…
RX9
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/06/19/automobiles/20090619-auto-plants-4.html?_r=0
There are a huge number of ostensibly “foreign” manufacturers with assembly plants in the United States.
Really, the only people who suffer when you don’t stick to GM/Ford/Chrysler are mostly the CEOs/ investors/ and Union Execs.
Plenty of American jobs are created by Japanese, German and Korean auto firms.
Matt J
I’d absolutely avoid the smaller GM suv/crossovers, we’ve done a lot of work at a dealership in town and they’re putting new engines in them on an over the top basis.
I’d look into the Honda or Toyota. Another option that I’ve rather enjoyed is the Acura MDX, it’s sporty and fun to drive and has plenty of room.
Stuart
I’ve read good thing about the MDX, but its price puts it out of range right. I’ll give the RDX a look, since its base is not much more than the higher trim levels of the other SUVs I’ve looked at, not including any 3-rows or midsize models.
David
We have a 2013 RDX and really like it. My wife gets a consistent 28 to 30 mpg with mostly highway driving. The V6 is nice to have when merging onto a highway and to pass people. I am glad that we got it over the CRV and Edge we were looking at. It is a lot more fun to drive than my friends 2013 CRV. My only complaint is the technology is a bit outdated compared to other comparable cars.
I have been renting cars a lot for the last four years now for work. Hyundai is much better now, but like Kia you can tell that they were built to a price point. I wouldn’t want to own one past 100k miles.
For some reason I felt like the Toyota’s I drive were the most bland and soulless vehicles I had ever driven.
The 2015 Chevy Equinox I rented a year ago was the biggest turd I have rented to date. The interior was very cheap looking/feeling and it had more road noise inside than any other car I have ever rented. It really surprised and disappointed me since I used to be a big GM fan.
I would suggest an RDX, CRV, Edge, or Subaru. They all seem to fit your current needs and you can upgrade in size as your family grows.
Steve Zissou
If New 4runner is a budget buster, consider a used one. I have a 2010 model, 100k+ miles. Has been absolutely phenomenal. I also own a 2003 2wd Tundra Pickup, 230,000 miles … I had to get the transmission rebuilt around 200k but it had quite a few trailer miles on it and I had never serviced the original transmission (doh).
I can assure you a late model Toyota will give you none of the reliability issues you are dealing with with Chevrolet. Phenomenal vehicles …
We also own a high mileage Infiniti sedan (same corporate parent as Nissan) and it has been quite reliable as well. But if you want an SUV, I strongly suggest looking at a 4Runner, new or used.
Stuart
Looking again at the 4Runner’s safety ratings, I’ll probably discount it from consideration.
Thinking aloud here:
The Explorer also has a not-so-good front crash safety rating, and the IIHS doesn’t even test the Expedition.
The F150 SuperCrew has better safety ratings, but I’d feel silly taking it for groceries or hauling a stroller out the back during trips to the mall. I’ve got plenty of use for a truck, but a truck would fill secondary needs more so than my current primary ones.
Plus, the few times my wife might drive it, she’d probably feel lost. Maybe not. If I test drive the Edge, I’ll test drive an F150. But I’ll probably test drive a minivan first. From what commenters are saying, and I have also read elsewhere, an Odyssey can fit full 4×8 sheets of plywood in the back with both rows of seats folded down.
I’ll keep a log over the next few years, to see if there are enough times when a pickup would have absolutely come in handy. Maybe if my wife’s next car is a compact or maybe even a luxury SUV, I’ll be in a better position to think about a truck.
Or maybe I’ll win the lottery, allowing me to buy an F150 (or another model) just for those times I’ll need or want it. Plus something small and fun.
james d
subaru all the way top safety awards and top overall owner satisfaction and also top resale value it will last you over 200k miles
Cody
I’d go with the Honda pilot or a Kia Sorrento. I have a 2016 Kia Sorrento that i bought 8 months ago and love. AWD, turbo, roomy, 10 year 100,000 mile warranty and window air bags. I’d stay away from chevy they have many recalls and my just adopted a baby girl a year ago so i didn’t want to take any risk.
Jim Felt
Funny you should mention the Sorrento. Once our 2017 arrives we’ll have had 3 of these American made crossovers. And all designed by the same German designer.
And all because I bought a 400hp V8 Hyandai Genesis in the midst of the Great Recession. And loved it. Though it was our last sedan.
Doug
Just bought our third Subaru last Friday — a Legacy sedan for my wife. BTW, she drove 9 different vehicles getting to that (from GM/Honda/VW). Her comment was that she was hard pressed to find one that felt like much improvement over her 2002 Accord V-6 until she drove the Legacy.
We also have a Forester (2009 –my car) and previously an Outback. Both of those are/were fine cars. Drove the Outback into what I thought was the end of it at 225K, and someone came along and chased me to buy it. Love those University towns…
I think that in the Forester and the Outback, the only deliveries I have had to had made was big quantities of drywall and decking delivered in past 10 years — everything else has fit inside or on that roof rack. Better still spend another bit of money and get the rack augmented with hardware pieces from Yakima. I always carry good tie downs in the back storage well (under the deck) just don’t have those “shoot, should have brought rope ” moments. Add the rubber/ lipped mat for the back, and you don’t even worry about gardening supplies and spills. You can get those from Sube or the aftermarket.
They have been great cars, wonderful in Michigan winters, and the local dealer has been fair and reasonable on service, but they aren’t exotic vehicles, so anybody will work on them in my experience (ask me about breaking down in what I like to call my “Last BMW Ever” in western Minnesota one vacation day).
The AWD is trouble free, seamless and absolutely great on that ugly mixed snow/slush/ice/dry pavement episodes we get in winter. Whoever mentioned the wide opening of the doors and tailgate is also correct. Won’t let a 4×8 sheet lay flat certainly, but neither will most vans. But the large accessible openings are very helpful when trying to get large awkward pieces of mystery woodwork in there!
Can’t do much better on the safety ratings currently and historically. The new electronics for rear view/lane change etc electronics all seem to work nicely so far, and aren’t goofy and jittery and irritating like some of the others I have seen this year. Ask me in 10,000 miles.
We used the Costco deal too, and it worked fine. Not all dealers are on their list, but we found that everyone would match it. A word of warning though — expect the usual “profit recapture” attempts from any of the dealers after they take the Costco price and finding “paint protection”, “GAP Insurance” , “dealer installed” accessories, and Elephant Avoidance Stripes to show up on the offer. Smile and Just Say No.
Good luck!
schill
Nobody told me I could get Elephant Avoidance Stripes on my Outback. Maybe it’s time to trade in the 2015 for a 2016.
I’m wearing a Beware of Rhino shirt right now. maybe the elephant stripes work for them too.
http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/79436572-beware-of-rhino-signpost-vaalbos-national-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=zkucjr1Nwty%2BEWkb%2BNgWbqR0d08UdjGkkyAGMd%2FtaFjnli4SznzaCj4sT7qLLqPd
Ethan Phillips
I would highly recommend a 2015 Honda Pilot Touring, 3rd row completely disappears when you dont need it, V6 is plenty powerful, reliable drivetrain, very well thought out features on the interior. I dont like what Honda did to the styling on the 2016s, they look like a minivan. If you buy a certified-pre-owned 15, you still get a 100K warranty and the vehicle has already taken the initial hit on depreciation. Just read what long term owners have to say about the comfort and reliability of the Pilot. I own a 2003 and a 2014, the 2003 has over 226,000 miles on it and its still going strong.
Eric
I would vote for the Toyota Highlander. I bought the 3-row Hyundai Santa Fe at a screaming deal a few years ago but have always wished I had the Highlander instead. Lots of space, Toyota reliability, nice looking car.
Matt
I defer to Mr. Money Mustache on these topics… An older, easy-to-maintain hatch or wagon which I can buy with cash.
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/03/19/top-10-cars-for-smart-people/
fred
For personal use, I have only ever considered cars that I could buy outright. Car loans can be tricky – some designed to stretch things out so that payments look attractive – but you may end up at some point owing more than the car is really worth. If I had to finance a depreciating asset like a car – I would be looking to pay the loan back in as short a time as possible – certainly not longer than 3 years IMO. So maybe the most cogent car buying question is what can I afford based on my down payment and trade in with either no loan or a 36 month loan.
I think that I’ve heard PBS financial Guru Suze Orman talk to her TV audience members on this subject along with outstanding student loans and credit card debt – but I realize that the temptation exists to convince ourselves that we need a better or more luxurious car,
Benjamen
I think it really depends on the situation. I’ve never had a car loan above 2.9%. I’ve been told by other friends that they don’t qualify for those dealer rates because their credit isn’t good enough. We got 0.9% on my wife’s CR-V. It added a total of $500 over 60 months.
In the past we’ve made double payments to keep down the amount of money we pay in interest, but this time around we’re just paying the monthly amount and putting more money away.
Even if you have the money to pay outright, if you get a good deal on a loan, there’s a school of thought that you should keep that money in the bank for other emergencies, but you need to be disciplined.
It also depends on how long you keep the car. If you keep your car 10 years and finance it for 5 years. Going upside down on the loan is meaningless.
fred
The car loan business and car pricing is sometimes akin to a shell game. Does anyone really believe that money will be loaned out at 0% APR? Or is the financing built into a bit higher price you pay for the car or other fees? On one occasion, a dealer asked me why I would pay cash when I could finance for free for 60 months. When I dug deeper – there was no interest stated but a “small processing fee” – some of it paid up front and some of it paid along with the monthly payment. My calculation was that it was a good deal (something like 2%) – but not zero. I understand that automakers and dealers often wish to move cars off their lots – and offer incentives to do so – but not at the expense of making a profit. My view is that many of the so called deals are really meant as enticements to get you to purchase a more expensive car than you would have done otherwise – and naturally the dealer does better with a pricier car.
Russ
I’m driving a 2004 Honda CR-V LX bought new; it has @168K miles and has been very reliable which is a primary concern of mine. I plan to keep it until 200K unless problems start to interfere. It’s a daily driver and now that I’m retired it sees a fair amount of stop and go driving 3 or 4 days a week when I deliver Meals on Wheels. I’ve taken it on many 1K-2K mile trips and driven it cross country several times from my home on the west coast. If I had to replace it today I think I’d look at Subaru Forester or Outback but another CR-V wouldn’t be out of the question; they are great cars. PS- My wife has a 2003 CR-V LX, just as reliable, with @145K miles.
Jacob Edmond
Well, since I haven’t heard anyone chime in on the Rogue yet, we bought one new a year ago, a 2015 model, base model S and I don’t have anything negative to say about it. Even though it is a base model, it has bluetooth capabilities, steering wheel stereo and computer controls, rear view backup camera, power windows and locks, and many other features. A step up or two in packages and you would have a really nice SUV. it is compact enough for my wife to feel comfortable as a daily driver, but roomier than any of our friends crossovers.
Where it really shines to me is roominess in the back seat, and cargo space. There rear 40/20/40 seats slide forward adding I believe an extra 9″ to the cargo space, and in addition, the cargo floor drops down to add another 4 or 5″ in height. it has multiple configurations that we use every day, for a divider, which works great for use to keep the very large Graco Jogging stroller up against the backseat, while protecting the bread and eggs back by the door. For long trips, you can create an upper and lower deck for stacking luggage or diaper bags as well.
We have the same issues as you, with a toddler carseat, and stroller, and soon to be a second carseat. I have many times hauled 8′ lumber with my daughter and wife, as well as brought home a new table saw, lawn mower, many large ticket items.
In addition, it has great power for a 4 cylinder in the model we got, and I added a 2″ received myself after market.
For the price, I think the value and convenience is definitely there.
Toolfreak
Only real reason to get an SUV is if you honestly will go off-road or live where snow and 4WD would be a benefit during winter months.
Otherwise, for a family vehicle and cargo hauler, I’d agree a minivan makes more sense. They often have more cargo capacity than an SUV, can have plenty of pulling capacity for a trailer with a V6, and of course mileage is better due to aerodynamics, handling is better being lower to the ground, and safety is better due to it being a primary consideration rather than height/looks.
You don’t really appreciate the extras like the sliding doors you can open from the drivers seat until you are picking up your kid at school or taking them somewhere with their friends. Minivans that come with a third row are fine since the seats all fold down flat anyway and you can just keep the rear seats down for plenty of cargo space but they are there if you need them.
Also when buying a “new” vehicle, don’t forget to keep an eye out for dealers that still have a few of last years models – you can often get something that just won’t move off their lot for way less than the current year model, putting something that would normally be outside the budget comfortably in it.
trippy
You mention one with a reciever hitch. For family trips I used to use one of these behind our Tahoe. As I wasn’t real big on strapping items on the roof.
http://scene7.samsclub.com/is/image/samsclub/0002506703080_B?wid=1500&hei=1500&fmt=jpg&qlt=80
Wrapped things with a tarp.
jcayce
Do you need a new car vs used?
And Toyota and Subaru quality of late has been quite questionable (I know I will receive a lot of slack for this because nobody has more fanboys than Toyota and Subaru).
I moonlight for a car blog and without a doubt do way more research than necessary on everything. If I cannot convince you to get a used Tacoma or 4Runner then you have definitely convinced yourself that you want a small SUV.
There is probably no point mentioning Honda’s upcoming Ridgeline replacement or any other midsize truck either.
I’m cooking dinner for the family and will come back to this.
Stuart
New.
I just checked car seat fitment, and the Tacoma has horrible car seat compatibility. The 4Runner is better, but not ideal.
I haven’t made it to any dealerships today, but after reading up some more on all the models I’ve been considering – and then some – I’m most interested in visiting the Ford dealership to see the Edge.
I think I saw mention of the Ridgeline in my recent research efforts. Looks awesome, but maybe a few years from now, not right now when I need a full-size back seat to accommodate a rear-facing car seat.
jcayce
Real world fitment of car seats in my 2009 Tacoma Double Cab TRD OR 4×4 is rather good. My wife and I are both 5’7″ and we use Graco car seats for our 4.5 and 1.5 year old. 4.5 year old sits behind me and I don’t have to move my seat at all to accommodate him. Wife drives a 2014 4Runner and the inside is huge. We keep a cooler and stroller in the back and I can easily fit a week’s worth of groceries along with them.
Both have the 4.0 V6, hers has the dual vvti system. Power delivery in the 4Runner is smooth although driving is boatlike with brake bobbing. Tacoma 4.0 feels rough but will break free the 10 ply 265/75/16 BFG ATs from a rolling 35 mph. Brakes, cabin noise,and ride are like a truck.
I have numerous minor issues with the Tacoma, none that affect drivability or reliability. Truck has 28,000 miles. 4Runner has a chirpy AC, has 26,000 miles but no other issues.
Value of the Tacoma for resale makes no sense. 4Runner is slightly above average.
Both are appliances to drive. Zero handling characteristics but consistently get us where we need to go. Very boringly.
Small SUV’s seem to be your focus, I wish I could convince you that a brown manual diesel station wagon is what you need. VW fit and finish seems impeccable at first but quickly fades. BMW and Mercedes and Jaguar and Porsche and…any European vehicle require premium servicing and do not seem to be what you are leaning towards, if you are correct me and I will address them individually. Toyota’s will be overpriced for what they are based on perceived value with average finishes. Subaru has even more average finishes but again, perceived reliability. Mazda cannot be beat for handling and driveability in the CUV price point but ranks low on the Japanese car scale, being only one higher than Mitsubishi.
American cars after I do the dishes.
jcayce
Forgot Honda. CRV seems to be the size you want. Pilot requires an exceptionally high price/trim level to get good stuff. Gas mileage is dismal for what it is. Odyssey shames it. Reliability has remained strong. It is another appliance to drive. All Hondas. Sorry fanboys.
Do you need or desire AWD/4WD/4×4?
Derek
Search for Car Seat fitment on Cars.com. They rank the different configurations in loads of cars.
Stuart
That’s what I’ve been doing, and it’s awesome! If a car can’t fit an infant seat or rear-facing convertible seat in the back without pushing the front passenger seat all the way in, I won’t even look at it.
I’ve just been googling “make model car seat check,” and the cars.com page comes right up.
Aristokatt
Subaru WRX STI hatchback. ~4.8s 0-60 , tenacious AWD grip, a fair amount of cargo capacity, quite reliable, incredible resale value. It is a perfect year-round sleeper car. The boxer rumble is the icing on the cake
Harry
Quit whining about a new station wagon and get back to posting tool material.
A CX5 is based on the Mazda2 platform so, it’s going to be cozy. I’d get an Outback if I was shopping. However, this is a tool site so, lets get back to tools.
Go ask the bums on garage Journal which station wagon you should buy.
Stuart
I’m fairly sure it’s based on the Mazda 3, not the 2.
Yep, it’s a tool site, my tool site. Maybe tomorrow’s post will be on warm weather socks and Spring work boot colors and styles.
fred
Stuart – keep doing what you do
A diversion from time to time keeps us grounded. Anyway a car is really a tool when you think about it – only more expensive than many of the others that we buy (unless you are buying an excavator, or the like). If we thought about it logically – we might be able to reduce car buying to a purely practical exercise – work up a spreadsheet to look at the value proposition and how best to invest our money. You hinted at this when you said that rather than buy something as a family car that could also haul lumber – you probably would be better off renting a truck when you needed it. I know folks who do the same for family vacations – renting a larger vehicle than the family sedan to haul the camping gear, canoe etc. – probably makes more sense than perpetually driving around in a Suburban or other gas guzzler – when you only need it one or two weeks a year. Then there are the other confounding issues related to how automobiles are embedded in the American Psyche. Does the car we drive convey the image of who we are – or want to be? Do we feel safer or more powerful in a larger vehicle – even if logic and crash tests might suggest otherwise? Are we buying to cover all eventualities – and want AWD even if we know that we most likely will avoid driving in conditions where it might have most benefit? Then there are all the factors like what the car looks like – compared to our notion of what we want it to look like and how we will appear driving it. I bet if we thought about car buying like buying a cordless drill – we might decide we need the top of the line 18V Milwaukee, Dewalt or Metabo – or we might just settle for an older M12 model – or dare I say it decide that an inexpensive Ryobi suited us just fine. When I talk to friends who own apartments in Manhattan – most do not own cars – but rent a sedan or SUV when they need one. I would not be surprised if a calculation based on economics would not lead many of us – to make different cur buying decisions than we have done. Meanwhile – while no Bentley’s for me – my top model Accords probably have more add-ons than practicality would demand – although the new one’s cameras, navigation, touch screen and synched connectivity are really nice to have.
Jim Felt
fred. I live in Portlandia and bikes and Teslas and Prius’ are required. If you don’t own a ute or a boring Subie. And of course a darn Yakima rack thingie.
And I’m only half exaggerating.
fred
My neck of the woods is cluttered with Audis, BMWs, Mercedes, and Porsches – and a few Bentleys and RRs – many I suspect are leased “for business purposes of course”. I can’t get excited about fancy cars or wish to give into peer pressure – preferring to spend (or give away) my money for other pursuits and drive something less flashy as long as it is safe, reasonably comfortable and reliable. I guess if I collected cars, like I do hand planes, that might be another thing – but then it would not be SUV’s unless Hispano Suiza or Dusenberg made one.
Jay
The Commander, (my better half) loves loves loves her Honda Pilot. She keeps the third row down most of the time. Lots of room for shopping, rolling with the grand kids and taking the dogs to the vet. I’ve been very impressed with the build quality all the way down to the detailed owners manual.
We narrowed it down to two vehicles, the Honda Pilot and the Toyota Highlander. In the end we both though the Pilot was the better buy. And don’t let the minivan tag throw you. The Pilot’s roomy interior is a major plus on trips.
Scuba Steve
Today’s SUV’s are really just cars with slightly higher ground clearance. You get no more cargo space than a sedan with a trunk. And, lots of SUV’s tout third row seating, but the seats are often tiny in back. The few remaining models that have managed to maintain the functionality of truly useful towing capability and cargo space are probably the Yukon XL and Suburban.
Otherwise, look at a quad cab truck. You get seating for up to 6 people, true 4wd capabilities, and a cargo space that can be covered with a cap or tonneau.
OR, look at a minivan! They are actually VERY good at efficiently moving people and gear, with a smooth ride, tons of options, good MPG, and automatic doors. I’ve packed one with several bags of cement, a vibrator compactor, and lumber, and it did well. An SUV could barely hold a few bags of cement.
Jay
We were scared away from the Yukon and Suburban by all the crashes that were traced back to defective ignition switches. The manufacturer did it’s best to duck responsibility until forced to act. We drop them from out list early on along with Jeep. Seems like every year Jeep has to issue a major recall of some sort.
Stuart
Even if the cubic footage is the same, the cargo space is more accessible. No more reaching over and into a trunk – I can slide heavy stuff into the cargo area a LOT easier.
Plus, I find driving an SUV to be a little more comfortable, posture-wise.
In the past few years I rented a few cars when out of town, and I definitely prefer the raised driving height and view an SUV provides.
Preferentially, I can’t go back to a car if I can help it.
ScubaSteve
As a guy who is regularly involved in DIY projects, hauling kids, and “stuff” in general, a midsize SUV isn’t even an option. I have a fullsize truck which I use to haul trash, lumber, kayak, and outdoor gear. It is very useful to have a “dirty” area to put things in versus cramming them into the back of an SUV and having to take multiple trips and worry about wear/tear on the interior. My wife has a GMC Acadia, which has been nice because it has bucket seats in the second row and a space in the center to easily get to the full third row. It has good power and MPG…but can get cramped when we go on road trips or do a large grocery run. The Acadia is our more refined people mover…we have had multiple minivans which I felt were fantastic, but my wife didn’t like the “soccer-mom” image. IMO we took a step down in terms of capacity and versatility when we bought the Acadia, but it has worked okay.
Another idea is to get whatever fits your family comfortably (plan for more kids if possible). Then get a utility trailer. Or, consider a car-topper that can be removed when not roadtripping.
Stuart
I like the idea of large or even truck-based SUVs, but they can’t go everywhere. I had to park in a small lot yesterday to pick up something for dinner. There was a Sequoia in a corner, but a large SUV wouldn’t have fit in the open spot in the middle of the cramped angled row.
Going to be a tough choice. My wife’s car is teeny tiny and used for commuting.
I’ll do some test driving and comparing. Right now my mind’s all over the place.
This decision wasn’t as hard last time around.
Reviews are making things even harder.
Apparently one of the cars I’ve been looking at is slow to shift into park, and slow for doors to unlock. Others have leggy infotainment systems.
Rick Ross-ish
I was looking for a vehicle last summer, and had the exact same checklist you do. The Subaru Outback checked all the boxes. I am with you on the sheet goods.
Full Disclosure: I was biased and was looking for a Subaru, but I can tell you now, that it has exceeded my expectations, I a probably would have regretted a purchase of different auto maker. The Forester is a fine choice as well.
The vehicle drives so much better than other SUV / “Crossovers”. But if for no other reason, so you can do this:
https://14cyiuhvcgv.com/seatrack-interior-cargo-rack-suvs/%3C/a%3E%3C/p%3E
Heroes get remembered, but legends never die. Follow your heart, kid, and you’ll never go wrong.
…And Subaru’s reputation is Legend… wait for it… dairy!
Lauren
2010 Rav4 driver here. I love it with usual junk in the cargo area. Fits people, dog, suitcases just fine. Once even laid the seats down to bring an oven, edger and broadcast spreader home without any issue. If I need to haul anything long, it’s a pain. Examples:
1. 4’x8′ plywood secured on top rack. I need to invest in longer tie-downs but I got it the few miles home from Home Depot. Keeping the plywood flush to the rack wasn’t an option with my ratcheting straps and how the rack was designed.
2. 300 lb treadmill didn’t fit completely inside and I wasn’t about to try and put it on top. Rear door opens on a side hinge. I had to angle the treadmill on its side inside and then I had to strap the door tight to the treadmill and connect to one of the hooks in the cargo area to feel safe taking it three hours down the highway.
3. I’m barely fitting any 8′ lumber or poles down the middle from front dash to the cargo door.
Worst part of the vehicle is the way the rear door opens. If my rear window rolled down like my old 4Runner, I wouldn’t care. I never thought a side-swinging door would be an issue until it actually was.
Stuart
For what it’s worth, the newer models have an up/down liftgate, no more side-opening, and the donut is beneath the cargo floor.
Jacob
From the experiences with new Chrysler and Jeeps of the family friends I know over the last 2 years, I would steer clear of any of them. My brother bought a Chrysler 200S brand new, and is on his 3rd transmission, and they told him he has to drive it until it completely fails again before they will replace the car.
Our other friends bought a brand new 15 Jeep Grand Cherokee. Off the lot the salesman told them the sunroof opened over itself somehow, which they later found out was wrong, and it wasn’t assembled right. Then the brakes went out while trying to stop at a stop light, plus a recall I believe that was on the airbag.
DaveMD
All of these will hit 200k miles with no major issues. Don’t get wrapped up in the details that won’t make a difference. Pick your favorite based off looks then price. Buy a cheap trailer and your set for everything else you may need to haul for those three or four times a year you need it.
I personally favor Toyota’s.
Yadda
RAV4 is my choice, and I would probably buy another one, but I wouldn’t necessarily recommend it. I’ve owned one since 2010. Quite a few recalls so you wouldn’t get away from that. The big brake fiasco was an issue. Air bags may be an issue. My only real gripes are that the gas mileage could be better and the cabin noise is loud at times.
Andrew
If you’re looking at a small SUV that maximizes value and utility, there are really only 3 options with a couple of “honorable mentions.”
Basically it goes CRV, Rav4, and Forester. CRV is considered the top in it’s class for reliability, reputation, and resale. These things simply don’t depreciate, and they offer utility and comfort for a small family.
The Rav4 is considered the blander only slightly less reputable small SUV. I own a 2012 and it’s pretty awesome in all weather conditions. It has a locking differential under 25 mph that comes with the 4WD/AWD version (the only version you should buy) that doesn’t really exist in any other small suv. My 2012 is the last year it came with a full size spare on the sideways opening back door, and my wife made use of the area where the spare would typically be by making it into a baby changing station. I did see the hybrid in that new blue color, and it is nice.
The forester is the more “offroad” capable of the three, but it carries an even more premium price, and likely more expensive repairs vs a simpler rav4 or crv. It has the best AWD system of the 3, but they also helped Toyota develop the older Rav4’s AWD system in the past.
Honorable mentions:
CX5 – the most fun to drive, probably less space than most
Any Nissan – They’re competent, but the top 3 are considered the best in the class, no real reason to go for a nissan unless you’re getting a fantastic deal or you love the design
Larger SUV’s (anything foreign/Japanese will have a high value after many years):
4-runner – the SUV I wanted but didn’t want to sell my first born for. I could only afford a used one with “high” mileage. They last forever, though, and have practically no depreciation. It’s crazy how expensive they are even after years and high mileage on them.
Pilot – High family utility vehicle, the more modern ones are moving towards the “Crossover” look, though, and therefore look like every other bland suv on the road. It’s a great car, though
I don’t like saying this, but bypass everything American. Reliability is a crapshoot, and the used or trade-in market is awesome for anything Japanese. You’re highly likely to have equity on the car after 3-4 years with it depending on how you buy it, and you’d be fighting for that with anything domestic.
If leasing is an option, I’d follow this site, including the forums:
http://leasehackr.com/
Sometimes you can find leases for less than $150/month with no money down on the car (state & lease fees might have to be up front).
I typically wouldn’t recommend a lease, but if you can get a deal so good that you end up spending less than the depreciation, then by all means go for it.
John A
My wife bought a 2016 Forester. I don’t like it at all. Won’t go above 23.7 mpg, 80% highway, very, very uncomfortable.
Don’t know your size, but I’m 6′ 2″ 215 lbs.
I can’t drive her car for more than an hour, then I have to get out and stretch.
She’s small and says she loves the car (biased because it was her final decision)
Her other car was s Nissan xterra. No longer made, her 2005 made it to 260k miles with only a few sensor issues near the beginning of ownership. A slow tranny leak that I kept putting off led to tranny going into safe mode (3rd gear).
I’d go with a Nissan product. Solid. Buy certified used, save 20-30%….
David Funk
My wife’s 2011 Caravan burned me bad. Two transmission jobs new cylinder head (70K) and she said I don’t want to be stranded with the kids in winter this thing got to go. So Ok but no one wants a used mini van they don’t hold any value. (it was Clean never even eaten in, new tires and Weathertechs.) So you can not beat the ride of a chaise on frame vehicle. So my recommendation is to buy a Tahoe. It can Haul, tow, its roomy and its mileage surprises me for its size. It holds its value very well as opposed to the minivan. Good Luck
Whit
My wife did not want an SUV so we purchased a 2015 Subaru Outback 4 CYL in Dec 2014. They don’t seem to deal much on prices because of popularity but we did get the credit union, Costco, USAA or whichever one we used price. We have been very happy with it. I do need to take it in to have the fuel mileage computer adjusted. We went from 27 MPG to over 40 MPG in a couple of weeks. I’m not sure we are averaging 27 MPG but it could be close. It might be a bit bigger than the RAV4, it is comfortable to drive and of course has great safety ratings. My car is a 2002 Toyota Tundra which has served me well since new. We have a good combination. The truck gets me to the train station and back and to Lowes for the big loads. The Subaru is the family car and gets three of us around comfortably and safely. Good luck Stuart.
NERemodeling
Have you considered getting a 2 or 3 year old off lease vehicle of a higher caliber? For the same money or less you should be able to get a bmw x3 or x5. Audi q3 or q5 or something like a Volvo xc70. You should be getting all the safety and tech you want. Also you will be amazed at how much nicer those vehicles are to drive. Also when you go to sell it you won’t be taking such a hit on depreciation as the first owner was kind enough to loose all that new car depreciation money for you!! Good luck and enjoy the process. Don’t forget to negotiate
Mike
Good compressors and generators use Honda engines. Better compressors and generators use Subaru. Subaru Boxer motors are reliable enough to be frequently used to power small aircraft. Subaru has a small lineup, and an even smaller range of motor options. Almost a specialist type product compared to motors that are more…general. FWIW, BMW and Porche build a number of motors awfully similar to the Subaru Boxer.
Subaru AWD is about as good as it gets. Here in Chicago I’ve dealt with snow that my 4×4 Ranger(special Southwest Off-Road package) barely overcame but a significantly lower Impreza dealt with admirably.
Subaru safety is at or near top spot, year after year after year.
Subaru customer satisfaction is top spot year after year.
Subaru resale value(relative to purchase price) is at or near number one in the industry year after year.
I once read that a crazy number of Subaru autos are still on the road after 10 years—something like 90% IIRC.
I would strongly urge you to avoid Hyundai generally. I’m convinced their success derives from one factor more than any other: they are mistaken/confused with Honda.
I would urge you even more strongly to avoid Kia at all costs.
Toyota was and still is a reliable product line. Nearly 50% of cars in Japan are Toyota. Personally, I like their trucks.
Honda is OK too I guess. They sure do make a great lawnmower.
Nissan gets my vote for runner-up.
BTW the popular gossip about Toyota being a Lexus with a different badge(or Honda/Acura and so on) becomes LESS true every day, or model year more precisely.
ps If more visitors complain about your content choices, direct them to me, I have an auto recommendation for them as well. I’ll post contact info for their region so they can CALL A WHAAAMBULANCE! 凸(-_-)凸
CyberRanger
We learned an interesting lesson with AWD systems. The consensus is Subaru has the best AWD system. We learned that isn’t the case. My daughter had a Subaru Crosstrek & we thought it was really good… until she traded it for a Jeep Cherokee. The base Jeep system is far superior to the Subaru system on dirt, snow, ice, mud, etc. Hands down.
Go figure.
Sergey
Why a good used car is not an option?
I was in the same boat last summer with looking to replace my wife’s 2002 Santa Fe. Nothing was wrong with Santa Fe, but it had 180K miles and just refused to die, so we got bored of it and wanted to get something else that was compact, yet had spacious cargo and was fun to drive.
After a lot of consideration I decided to test drive a nice 2013 Lexus RX 350 just to see how it feels. I was hooked from that first test drive, bought it and never looked back. It’s an amazing car. Extremely responsive for it’s size, quiet, powerful, with lots of cargo space (stroller + a week’s worth of groceries in the back with space to spare). It has great safety ratings and legendary reliability. And the finish is really great, way, way better than 2016 CRV or RAV4 with all options included. Price-wise it was the same as a new CRV.
I could fit a full size bandsaw and a 6″ Grizzly jointer (2 separate trips) into RX 350 with no issues.
Personally, I’m not ever buying a new car as I can get so much more for the same price out of a 2-3 year old vehicle. For me, the only reason to buy new would be exceptional features that I want not offered by anybody else (any Tesla).
Stuart
I know too many people with bad experiences with used vehicles, and I’m very particular about the features I want. I’d rather buy new.
I’ve been looking at the RX 350, not very seriously yet. I saw one on the road, and it looked to be a very nice size. Pricey, when I priced out an Edge, the difference didn’t come out to that much.
I’ll give it a test drive, and if I love it, I’ll see if I can make it work, or I’ll consider looking used.
The front of the new RX 350 is sooooo ugly though.
I’ve heard great things about the Acura MDX, but it starts at even higher.
I’m leaning more and more towards 3-row vehicles or larger 2-row.
Stuart
So I tried to check out the CRV and Pilot today.
The CRV was locked. One sales guy was about to help then excused himself b/c he’s “on the preowned side.” The new sales guy had me sit down. He wanted to bring out cars, while my son was fidgety and my wife was resting in the car since I told her I’d be less than 5 minutes.
There wasn’t any Pilot on the sales floor for me to look at and the CRV was locked so I couldn’t look at the cargo compartment.
Oh, maybe I can come by Saturday for a test drive. Then he told me it wouldn’t be a good idea, too hectic, maybe I could stop by another time, they’re open until 9pm.
I’ll try tomorrow, but another dealership a few minutes extra away in the other direction.
I didn’t even see where a Pilot would have been, assuming they just sold it. And if they just sold it, wouldn’t they have brought a new one in?
I’ve had good and bad experiences at dealerships before, but this was just a bit nuts. Or maybe I was just frustrated by the sales guy’s “don’t come in at your convenience, come it at mine” attitude.
Jay
Service department is the same way. Called the dealer to have the Pilot inspected prior to a 2000 mile road trip. Earliest available “appointment” was three weeks out. No worries though. Great cars. If we had to buy another family car tomorrow it would be another Pilot.
fred
I have several Honda Dealers within reasonable driving distance. Over the years I found that one had a much better service department than the other 3 – bigger – more accommodating to last-minute scheduling – and just friendlier. Not sure if their prices are any better – but that’s who I bought my last 2 Accords from. I had ruled out one local dealer early on based on a hassle when trying to buy – hard to get a straight answer on price without my trade in – and then wanted to change the price when I said I was paying cash and planned to sell the trade in separately.
Jay
Run, don’t walk, from those shady dealers. One bad dealer we ran into would not provide straight answers. When the salesman walked up and offered his services I asked him to provide the specifications and price for the vehicle we were looking at. He replied by asking how we planned to finance and if we had a trade in. I gave him a second chance thinking that perhaps he did not understand the question. No luck the second time. He said he needed to know about financing and trade in before he could give a price. We thanked him for his time and walked.
Benjamen
Back when we were looking for my truck, at a Dodge dealer we were physically blocked by another salesman from leaving the first salesman’s cube. They said they wouldn’t let us leave until we bought the truck we were looking at.
I got up and buffaloed through the guy standing in the way with my wife in tow.
If you live in the Twin Cities I’ll give you one guess which convicted felon owned the dealership.
Matt
Stuart I did this 2 years ago. We too had an Equinox. We test drove everything available at the time. The old Murano, Rogue, Rav4, CRV, Forester, Tiguan, Edge, Escape, CX5, and looked at the Range Rover Evoque, Q5, and allroad. The last 3 were beyond the budget.
Everything with a CVT is unable to tow so that killed the Rogue, Subaru, and maybe a couple others.
The old Edge drove like a tank. It wasn’t comfy or sporty or anything. It felt like something someone old would love. Big flat seats, soft suspension, good visibility.
The Escape, CRV, Tiguan, Rogue, Rav4, and CX5 were all a little small.
We hated the passenger seat on the Escape. It was locked in a high position and we felt perched on a hill. It also wasn’t that comfy. The bottom seat wasn’t angled right. We found this problem in 3 models we tried.
The Rav4 had in our opinion a terrible interior. Looked scattered and cheap.
The Rogue seemed bigger but the CVT like almost all CVT units is only good for about 1000lbs. This is when we made this discovery.
We finally ended up with a loaded Santa Fe Sport. We still like it. We do wish it had a powered tailgate. It gets around 40% better mileage than our 2006 Equinox did which is rather huge. I’d still love to get a Q5 – especially an SQ5 – but the finance rates aren’t even close to competitive.
With that said I’d recommend doing your homework and then going and driving the options you don’t immediately cut from your list. I’d even recommend trying the ones your hesitant about. If you’d told any of my family or friends 5 years ago I’d be driving a Hyundai they would have laughed but I really can’t say anything bad about it and given the same scenario again I’d still get the Santa Fe. I would be interested in how the new stuff compares but I’d also really like to see an updated version of the Equinox and the Terrain. They’re both solid choices but I feel their design has been around too long. I felt that way 2 years ago when we were looking!
pete
My mother has a Rogue and she is going on her second transmission. I think shes at 125k? It’s decently fun to drive but it is a tin can. No noise deadening at all…
Mr. X
Check into the reliability of the Subaru CVT. They cost a fortune to replace out of warranty.
How about a BMW 328i xDrive Wagon? Lots of certified pre-owned out there, great warranty, excellent fuel economy, plenty of space, safe, and drives like a sports car. A low mileage CPO will likely cost $25-30k, well within your crossover/mini SUV budget range.
Good luck!
Chris
Hepdog
Honda CRV. No contest with any listed.
I have had an 08 model for several years now – bought it used w 50k miles and have put 200k MORE on it driving all over the eastern US. No issues, regular maintenance only. Unbeatable reliability AND resale value.
I would not go anywhere else.
Hep
Rob
We got a Honda Pilot because we didn’t want a minivan. We have 3 rows if we need it, but we typically keep it folded down so we can use the storage. Our Pilot has TONS of space. We absolutely love it. It’s also great if you have extreme height differences in drivers. I’m 6’2″ and my wife is 4’11”. We can both drive it in comfort. We got the lowest model that still had leather seats for easy cleaning. We’ve never regretted the purchase.
pete
My wife is in a 06′ 4runner with a V6 at 130k. I have had to replace the struts and the water pump which i did myself and was actually pretty easy. It has good power and has been dead reliable. The 4.0 v6 is a good motor.
I would look at a slightly used 4runner with either motor-v6 or v8. They’re both proven reliable motors. The nice thing about 4runners is that the owners are usually very handy and there are plenty of forums and write ups to do just about anything you want to do.
Jerry
Does it ‘have’ to be new? A friend got a 2 year old certified Mercedes M-5 with 20 some thousand miles for less than a new minivan. Lots of useful room inside, great ride, and has had only a battery and tires in several years of high mileage driving. Got a ride in it once and it had hands down the absolutely most comfortable seats my rump has ever had the privelage of sitting in, and with adjustable back support that had to be experienced to be believed. I have heard repairs can be pricey but his hasn’t needed any yet.
Kris
Tonight I bought a 2016 Hyudai Tucson Sport after much deliberation. It was such a bizarity to see you post this question as I have been in the same boat for some time. Stuart, I’m counting on you to make the same decision as me with the Tucson. It will be the utmost valididating factor after your extensive research.
Kyle
I will say it depend upon your anticipated number of kids. We had found our Jeep Grand Cherokee would not hold 3 car seats side by side, (carrier, and two front facing) it was too narrow and the car seats keep getting bigger and bigger. We went with the Pilot, its a great vehicle, we needed the AWD and ground clearance. Plus with the third row we have extra kid hauling abilities without a mini van. My wife did not want a full size SUV( suburban/tahoe ect) The Pilot works and has an acceptable towing capacity if you get the AWD. downsides are the parts, an OEM alternator is $350,( it went out at 138k) . It has decent cargo cap, with the 3rd row down, and you can fit bags of groceries behind the 3rd row.
Stuart
I think that, as of right now, it’s down to:
2017 Ford Edge
Honda Pilot
2017 Toyota Highlander
Maybe the 2017 Tucson being a 4th pick.
All pending test drives.
The Edge seemed comfortable and spacious enough.
The Pilot was a bit big, and the cargo area was a bit too high up. With the 3rd row folded down, I’d have to climb in to get anything out. It seems that one of the features I want is only available on the 2 highest trim levels, which are pricey and with a long waiting list, meaning no more than a $500 discount from MSRP.
The salesmen was telling me that there’s a very little discount, such that the resale value is protected. huh? Oh, so I would receive less of a discount for my own benefit?
The Highlander was okay, I’ll have to look at it again. At the time, I was more interested in the Rav4, so I didn’t pay a lot of attention to it. There’s a new redesign for 2017, with Toyota saying more engine power, and I like the look better.
Android Auto and Apple CarPlay is coming to the Ford Edge, but only in 2017, and Android Auto integration with the 2016 Hyundai Tucson has been delayed. I think I read that it’ll still come to the 2017.
I’ve been using navigation a lot more these days, and I don’t want to deal with windshield stickies or having to look down at my phone on the console.
The Lexus RX 350 looked nice – real nice – and wouldn’t be much more than a loaded Edge or Pilot. And I might still give it a test drive too. But I think I would be too protective of it. If my son runs a toy car into the side, I’d be more sensitive than if he did it to say a Ford or Honda.
Tojen1981
I’d include the traverse/enclave/acadia model as long as you’re still looking. Everybody that owns one that I know really likes theirs. And now that GM has the timing chain stretch issues well behind them, the powertrains are pretty reliable.
John A
While my car was having the transmission replaced the dealer lent us a Ford Edge, I believe it was a 2016 model. I will tell you this, it was actually very comfortable. It had a semi sporty feel to it but everything was laid out comfortably orgonomic Lee. I was almost ready to go by 1 LOL. Good luck with your choice, however try to hold off until the fall to buy a new car I guarantee you you will save some money. Don’t use accessories to negotiate a price.
Matt
Why are you looking at Ford, Toyota, and Honda’s bigs SUVs and the little Hyundai? The Santa Fe Sport is much more of a competitor to those you’ve listed tho both the Highlander and Pilot would be even larger more like a non-Sport. The Edge and Sport are both 5 passenger kind of midsize utes. The Touareg, Q5, and X5 would also be in that league. The Honda and Toyota are 3 row utes. If you want a 3 row I’d really recommend looking at a Tahoe especially a used one. More space, more power, reliable, abundant, and they seem to get similar real world mileage according to Fuelly.
Stuart
I considered the Santa Fe Sport, but it doesn’t have good front crash ratings.
jason. w
I work at Subaru of Idiana Automotive… We make the outback and legacy. I can tell you that the safety features and care put into every car is too notch. Their new “eye sight” system is top of the line in safety. They get great gas milage as well. I plan on getting an outback as soon as I can afford one.
Mike
Anxiously awaiting a white paper quality level review of “windshield stickies”.
Tom
The 2016 Mitsubishi Outlander GT. Mitsubishi has had a no so good reputation of recent but the 2016 has 100 improvements over last year. Only get the GT model. It is the only SUV in its class to offer a V6. They are quiet and smooth and loaded for a good price. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d32ABhmPdo0
bobbyg53
There is a reason that the Honda CR-V has had the highest owner retention and resale value (residual value) in the industry for many years. Also, former minivan and large SUV drivers that downsize to the CR-V often never leave for another make or model.
Drive one, but take your checkbook with you. It is the most package-size efficient SUV in the industry.
Justin
We have a 2011 Honda CR-V that we bought Certified 3 years ago. It’s a great vehicle. We also have a 2014 Jeep Patriot Sport. I kinda prefer the Patriot (has more character) and it’s a nice simple box.
But the CR-V has nicer fit and finish I suppose.
But I think Stuart wants a 3rd row for more flexibility? I think I’d go for the Ford Edge or the Toyota Highlander. Too bad Toyota made the front end of the Highlander sort of goofy looking starting in 2014. Up until 2013, it had a nice 4Runner style front end.
Justin
Plus CR-V’s are too small IMHO.
Steve
Have I missed an update on the final decision or is this still pending?
Stuart
Still pending, and changing. I’m now also open the possibility of a Jeep.
Jim Felt
Stuart. I’ve owned several Grand Cherokees. Both before and during the Daimler Benz owneship fiasco.
That said the current (Fiat owned Jeep) Consumer Report ratings still look like my experience. All too many visits to the dealership for repairs. Both under warranty and after. I’ve had cars with zero repairs for literally years on end. But never a Jeep. Or BMW. Or Lincoln. Or MB.
Steve
Stuart:
You’ve received lots of good advice. For my 2 cents I’ll simply add that we currently own 9 Hondas and have owned many before this. Depending upon how you prioritize your purchase criteria, Honda products might or might not work for you. For family drivers that I NEVER wanted to get stranded, Honda has served us well. We don’t buy based on styling or prestige – only for safety, dependability, function and cost of ownership. We buy them and keep them for hundreds of thousands of miles. Again…$0.02 that may be worth even less than that. Good luck & thanks for your site!
Sunny
what Vehicle did you ended up buying then?
Stuart
GMC Acadia (new smaller, lighter version).
I figure I’ll post about it in a few months or couple more thousand miles.
So far, it drives well and I love the hauling capacity. I’m still not used to it – I can never get my arms comfortable on longer road trips. The cargo hatch doesn’t close perfectly, even with adjustments, and the driver’s side door panel doesn’t close flush. Some finish trim is missing around the seat belt base between driver’s seat and center console.
It looks like the robots and workers put it together at 4:55pm on the Friday before a 3-day vacation weekend.
The dealership can fix everything, but I’m hesitant to send it to the body shop, even for free.
Jim Felt
Wow. Sorry about your fit and finish, not to mention, ergonomic issues.
I’ve had 3 US built KIA Sorrentos in the last 6 or 7 years and have had exactly one headliner squeak in the very first one. And friends of mine have bought them based on my success and they’ve had the same experience.
I’ll never go back to BMW/Benz/Cadillac. Too much hassle.
My bigger Ford rigs are fine but not as problem free. Though I did gift one Expedition to a friend at 255K and she still drives it.
And Tesla? No range and no gas option for greater distance. But that’s just my routes and preferences.
Good luck with the Jimmie.
Stuart
I was actually pretty determined to get a Kia Sorrento. The dealership had “hundreds in stock” and all trim levels. The salesmen was pushing me to come back for a test drive.
I was ready for a test drive. They didn’t have any in stock except the lowest trim. They didn’t have anything of the engine I wanted.
I asked when they’d be in. He called me back, and all he was interested in was knowing when I wanted to buy, what I was driving now, how I wanted to pay for the new car.
When I was considering he GMC Acadia before deciding it wasn’t for me, the salesman made me feel like he was interested in my needs and wants first and foremost.
So I hung up on the horrible Kia salesman, called my GMC guy, and he got back to me within a half hour. We set up a test drive, and then a weekend test drive, and then a final test drive and purchase decision.
He was the opposite of pushy, and convinced me not to entertain the idea of a final bump-up in trim level.
We talked about the Sierra, even though I wasn’t going to buy one for this car.
And we also dismissed the idea of a Yukon.
This was one rare time when a salesman helped me make a purchase.
I ended up going with an Acadia with captain’s back seats, and fold-down 3rd row.
We’ve used that 3rd row a couple of times, and I don’t at all regret my choice to go with captain’s chairs instead of a bench.
Oh, and the headlights suck. They were poorly rated in safety ratings, and I found mine to be no different. They seemed to be aimed too low, not covering enough space ahead of me. The dealership adjusted them to aim higher, and the headlight coverage is now a lot better, so much that I hadn’t even thought about it in a while.
Jim Felt
Stuart.
Crappy salesmen are the bane of that retail experience. I’ve literally always found a salesman/sales manager/GM I like than stuck with them. And they with me. Plus a favorite service writer/service manager.
And expected and received a loaner/car wash ticket/something! for always letting the dealership do the service.
And kinda sadly name dropping helps.