I’m taking a break from prepping the rest of my Milwaukee 2015 new product symposium coverage, and wanted to ask everyone a question. Well, not “everyone,” but anyone who uses screwdrivers bits in a cordless drill, screwdriver, or impact driver on a regular basis.
I was working on a post about Milwaukee’s next generation Shockwave impact-rated screwdriver bits when I came across a slotted style screwdriver bit. Or at least I think this is a slotted bit. Maybe it’s a Robertson (square) bit? It’s hard to say, as the slotted bits have a hollow ground profile.
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This one is definitely a slotted bit. The one above, I’m almost certain now is a Robertson bit.
Back to the point…
What I am curious about is this – what style of screwdriver bits do you use with your powered drill or impact driver?
I’ve used Phillips (of course), Torx, Robertson, and that’s about it. I own 1-inch hex bits, but mainly use them in manual hand screwdrivers. Slotted? Sometimes, but only in a hand screwdriver as well.
I can’t think of an application where I would use a slotted screwdriver bit, or slotted screws, or a slotted screwdriver bit with multi-style Phillips + slotted or Torx + slotted fasteners. But brands make slotted screwdriver bits and impact-rated bits, so surely they’re in demand.
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I guess I could understand using slotted bits in a low-speed screwdriver to install light switch plates, outlet covers, and things like that. But that’s with a low-speed screwdriver or drill/driver. Is there anyone out there that uses impact-compatible slotted bits?
Phillips, Pozidriv, hex, torx, slotted, Robertson, nutdrivers, and so forth – what styles of bits do you use?
And if you’re feeling generous with your answers, please consider telling us a little about the screwdriver bit styles that you do NOT use.
Mike aka Fazzman
Torx,security torx,phillips,hex, and square I think are what ive used most. I have a bunch of styles in my kits I havent used mostly because I dont have and screws with that head type.
Max
Anytime I am driving something I use the impact driver (Craftsman Bolt-On). I have a metal plate in my right forearm and when a drill stops the torque on my arm is very painful.
Rob
Whenever possible I use Robertson bits. I’ve done quite a bit of construction and the only screw that comes close to Robertson is Torx, but they don’t stay on the bit as nice as Robertsons do. (You can normally put the screw on the bit, turn it upside down and press it to the lumber with only one hand on the drill and none on the screw) If you are driving a lot of them in an impact the bits on torx wear out faster than a Robertson bit.
Sean
I prefer Robertson as well, and I try to buy those when buying generic construction screws. I’d rather avoid the torx bits because I think it is annoying to have 15+ different sizes to deal with, and I guess by not buying torx-related products I’m demonstrating a lack of support for a stupid system. I know some sizes are more common than others and sometimes it is for “security” reasons, but those don’t help its case in my book. (My Stihl trimmer needs a T27, by the way. You may ask why not 25 or 30? Yeah, I don’t know either.)
Phillips is pretty awful, but we all have to deal with it regularly. I have used slotted impact bits for various tasks, and they work fine. Impact drivers don’t need to be run “hard” all the time. I find myself pulling the trigger softly more often than driving full-speed.
I’ve begun using my impact driver less and less, especially since I’m not a contractor (or in the field) so usually its for a quick task on the house. More often than not, I’ll need to use drill bits as well for whatever I’m doing, and so I grab the drill. The novelty of the impact wore off fairly quickly. Of course, I do understand and appreciate the reasons why the impact drivers exists, and I wouldn’t part with mine anytime soon.
Farid
Here is a list based on amount screws used in the last few years and descending order:
Roberstson
Torx
Posz-drive
Philips
Slotted
Note that the most reached for bit is the Philips, since a lot of purchased items or occasional repairs use a Philips. But I’m only driving a handful of screws then, so it does not come close to the total number of screws driven. I hope that makes sense.
The Robertson seem to wear out faster and screw heads ruin faster, but you drive them a slight angle if need be, which is tough to do with Torx.
There are some carriage style slotted screws that we have at work in some older systems that I use the cordless drive on occasionally, but generally it is tough to keep the bits in place without using a keeper or shroud
Chris Fyfe
I never use on slotted bits . I run Phillips , Robertson , and Torox quite a bit , not so much , with hex .
Chris
Matt
I manage a 30yr old apartment complex in upstate NY. Those that came before me had an inert obsession with slotted bits, from slotted toggle bolts to machined screws of various sizes to slotted guys driven into anchors to secure medicine cabinets or vanities. We find slotted guys used in door hinges or rusted into old door sweeps and exterior casing. They’re everywhere.
I carry, already in a magnetic guide, both a Philips and a slotted bit, every where I go. I may not always need it, but a(don’t laugh) hitachi 18v Impact has become by gun of choice and is my EDC.
So, short story long, I have the need for a slotted bit almost everyday.
Seb
Philips
Pozidriv
Hex
Triwings
Tamper torx
And torqset
But i work in the security industry so i encounter some stuffs that arent common in other settings.
Robertson are very uncommon here in France. We also encounter some very unusual things like snake eyes or bnae or tamper hex
Nathan
timely thread as I’m looking to buy some new bits anyway.
but in power tools I’ve use slotted, phillips, torx, hex and some specific deck screw bit labeled ACR – seems like a posidrive and a philips cross
on an aircraft in my impact driver I’ve also used what I call Offset Cruciform but I think the technical name in Pain is the rear, no sorry torqueset.
I’ve use all of them in my impact driver these days – but my driver is that dewalt DCF895 device with the 3 settings. On the slotted only reason I’ve used them in power tools is to remove older slotted wood screws in some furniture and other stuff. when I fix or add new hardware it’s all philips, torx, or hex if I can help it. and if the cost wasn’t nuts I’d do torx and hex only.
I have never used a robinson bit that I know of.
also I run sockets with my 895 impact driver fairly often now too – mostly on the car.
fred
It’s more about the screws you regularly buy and use isn’t it?
We drove more drywall screws (Phillips #2) than nearly anything else.
Deck screws with Unidrive (sometimes called PhillipsII – Deckmate – Combo-Drive pattern) were probably next in line.
Some larger deck screws (e.g. Fasten Master) came with Spider Drive.
Trim Head screws – next in line for decks – were Robertson #1 or even #0
We liked Spax screws – they often were Torx
When we bought Stainless Steel screws – we usually opted for Robertson #2
Lots of hinges and cabinet hardware were mostly Phillips #2.
We carried a bit assortment for oddball – old work items – and security fasteners – but hardly ever used them. I know we had Phillips, Robertson, Torx and Allen (hex) security bits (hole in the center) that probably were never used in 20 years. We did a run (probably 60 or so) of commercial toilets – where one-way screws and twin-point (spanner head) screws were spec’d. I think a lot of the drivers for these are still in a cabinet somewhere.
Peter Fox
As far as bits pretty much everything, I work for an industrial control manufacturer so we are at the mercy of other manufacturers with regard to supplied fasteners.
In order of most common to least common in our shop.
Phillips
Slotted (mostly terminal screws and mostly metric)
Pozidriv (most commonly in combination with slotted)
Hex (Allen in both inch and mm)
Square
Torx
Working with lots of European manufactured electrical components Pozidriv and Pozidriv slotted combo screw heads are very common. we have had the best results from the combo bits that PB Swiss offers, other that Wera and CK i have not seen any other manufactures making this type of bit.
We also see lots of smaller slotted head screw on terminal and terminal blocks. most are made to metric standards and thus work best when used with metric sized screwdrivers (2.5mm, 3.0mm, 3.5mm, 4.0mm, and 5.5mm). Surprisingly for the small sized screws used for terminals slotted head seem to be the best choice as they will take more torque than similarly sized Phillips or Pozidriv screws.
My biggest complaint with screwdriver bits on the market is with hex bits. all modern electrical components are well insulated with deeply recessed terminal screws and no one offers longer hex bit that fit or work. a 3″, 4″, or 6″ long bit which is only the correct size for the first 1/2″ is useless. We usually end up using T-handles but it would be great if we had a decent option for longer hex shank hex bits. the only things close are the older Xcelite series 99 tools and a selection of longer 1/4″ square drive bits (Williams for inch and PB Swiss for mm).
At home it is mostly Philips and square with some slotted and Torx mixed in.
I can’t really say I have a preference, every type has advantages and disadvantages. I would like it better if there weren’t so many different choices as I end up running into all of them sooner or later.
Can some on tell screw manufactures to quit inventing new drive styles I have too many different ones to keep track of as it is.
Mike
Have a look here:
http://apexbits.com/apex-1-4-hex-power-shank-bits-inch.aspx
Make sure you’re sitting down when you look at the pricing, though.
Peter Fox
Those are close but most sizes still get bigger in diameter just behind the tip. Modern fully insulated electrical components often only have openings just large enough to get the appropriate hex size and no more.
The prices are also hard to justify, but if they would actual work I would probably look int getting some.
Even finding longer bit sockets has been hard, only withing the last year did I discover that PB Swiss offers 2″ long metric hex bit sockets in 1/4″ drive. They do not even have them listed in there catalog and their website description is poor I only found them through the Toolguyd posting on the PB Swiss bit sockets. Plus $10+ each they are expensive but they are currently may best option for metric in sizes 3mm through 6mm.
fred
Every inventor thinks he has a better drive style – and if you consider the evolution of drive types – then those thoughts may have some merit. From the invention of the slotted screw – Phillips was supposed to be a big improvement. While we’ve recently been posting about how we generally hate Phillips screws – the did become ubiquitous for some reason. The same can be said for more recent drive styles like Allen (Hex), Robertson, Torx, TriWing, Torq-Set, Mor-Torq etc.
We did a series of jobs some time ago on facilities at parks – where the State had opted to use screws with no drive mechanism at all – – just recessed flat heads that looked like someone forgot something. The nuts were worse – a style called Trident – that forced us to buy a batch of proprietary sockets:
http://www.tannerbolt.com/Default.aspx?page=customer&file=customer/tabonu/customerpages/trident-nuts.htm
Mike
Slotted bits still have their place. As Matt pointed out, there is still a lot of hardware out there using slotted screw heads. There are also many, many fasteners that have been painted over. On any combination screw it’s easiest to scrape and gouge out the slotted portion and then power it out with an impact driver.
I work with Torx a lot and I don’t like using those bits with a drill or impact driver. If the bit slips, and it will given enough opportunities, the higher rotational speed available from those devices grinds up the bit and fastener pretty quickly. The design doesn’t leave much extra material on the bit so a single high speed slip can easily ruin it. Torx tends to be used in sensitive applications anyway and using either of those power tools isn’t the best idea in those situations. I either use hand drivers or an electric screwdriver with a sensitive enough clutch.
The only bits I never use are the combination bits available from Klein, Milwaukee, etc. I guess I just don’t see the point of them. They only properly fit combination screws that accept Robertson, and even then only fit when the fastener is made with a specific alignment of all the bit sockets. A Robertson will always fit those screws, automatically centers, and doesn’t slip. The combination bits only fit where the Robertson already fits and will not fit many of the combination screws that the Robertson does. What’s the advantage?
Peter Fox
Maybe not in the case of the combination Robertson slotted bits, but the combination Phillips slotted and combination Pozidriv slotted bits that PB Swiss and Wera offer are a lifesaver in many cases for us.
With many of the combo head screws the compromise is really the worst of both worlds. Usually there is less contact area when used with either of the two options resulting in more stripped screw heads. Having a combo bit that fits and makes the best possible contact with the combo screw can make a huge difference.
Noah
I hate combo drive screws. Electrical manufacturers should just switch to one drive and stay with it. I’ll even allow the Europeans to use their Pozidrive if North America will choose Robertson.
CK
How do you get slotted screws to not cam out when using them? Whenever I have tried, the bit always cams out of the slot in the screw, often scratching the work piece. Am I doing something wrong?
richard
I have used slotted impact bits to remove old painted over door hinge screws, slotted obviously as the impact function breaks the gloss paint seal and normally frees up the screws
glenn
No.2 phillips bits are the ones I use the most. Just about every A/C unit here uses philips screws as standard.
For home use its still mainly phillips bits as its still by far the most common in use here in Australia.
I would much rather see a shift to square drive though.
mnoswad
Short torx t20 or t25 depending on what brand screw i’m using and always in a bit holder. Sometimes square drive too………..but never flat and only 5% of the time phillips.
mnoswad
forgot, pozi too………..when assembling euro style cabinets and Blum hardware,
T
Torx accounts for about 75%, followed by metric hex then phillips. Tried a power driver on slotted once, never will again. At high torque, I have found torx to be the most reliable of the three internal drive profiles I see regularly. I can put over 400ftlb on a t55 or t60 without issue – youre pushing your luck with anything else – try drilling out a hardened 18mm hex that stripped its head. As long as torx bits are properly seated in the fastener head, all is well.
fred
There is a slotted style drive system called Hi-Torque (Apex makes the bits) that I’ve never seen in building construction – but maybe its an aircraft type of fastener.
http://omegatec.com/hi-torque-bits.aspx
Cr8ondt
I do a little bit of it all and bits i have them all. I mainly use t25 for decks but occasionally use s2, drywall obviously p2, but i do run into remodels that require the whole gambit. I do own a few impact rated bits but mostly use normal rated ones even in my impact, I rarely ever use my drill to drive screws anymore, my drill only makes holes these days.
Keith Whitmore
I use to swear by Phillips bits. Then after stripping out God knows how many heads trying to get the screw in, I switched to Torx. From the day I switched over I have never had that problem again.
RX9
Yes. At first, I was ticked off at the idea of using a weird proprietary fastener. Then, I realized that not only do torx fasteners not strip, they stay on the head of the bit as well. I now demand torx screws.
Jerry
I probably use Phillips the most, but not by choice. My preference is to use square drive, or Torx for screws where the head will be exposed. However, my ‘favorite’ fastener head style for impact use is hex head. Not the internal hex, like an Allen style, but external hex, like a bolt. Naturally, there are many places you can’t use them , but I do where I can. Sheet metal and machine screws seem to be about all that is common in hex head, but I can’t imagine running 3 inch long roofing screws using a Phillips head!
pete
I’ll use my impact driver on just about anything that I can get my hands on.
Phillips
slotted
Robertson
torx
drill bits
uni-bits
1/4+3/8+1/2 socket drives
There isn’t much I won’t throw on a impact. Although for precise drilling apps I still use a drill, the impact 1/4″ wobbles too much.
Favorite Phillips bit- gold Makitas all the way, I have yet to break one. And I’ve broken dewalts way too many times, I’ve broken a Irwin once I think.
Chip
Pete speaks for Me!
I install decks(#2 and #1 roberton), screen rooms (1/4and 5/16 hex) fencing(1/4 to 3/8 hex, #2-#3philips, 3/8 drive sockets up to 1 1/8),
and handrails that are a mix.
I despise torx, Philips, and flat, but I will put an impact on them.
I love Robertson, we buy a 25lb bucket wherever we can find them (hard to find @big box stores).
The Makita gold double ended bit is great.
We buy 2in,3in,and 6in 2pc(hardened tip) bits from rockler?
The only time I use a drill, is to mix anchoring concrete, or drilling steel…….. everything else, I drill with an impact.
My m12 fuel gets used every day, while the m18 fuel sits in the truck.
Pete
Forgot about hex, yep those too.
My M12 impact is also my go to. All 18v stuff stays in the truck or tool box unless needed.
Pete
If you use #2 phillips alot try the magnetic hitachi bits. I was hesitant but they hold and drive great! I was sad i didnt try them earlier.
BikerDad
My Preference:
Robertson/Square (note: they are not exactly the same, but nearly so)
Pozidrive
Torx
Hex
Phillips
then waaaayyyyyyy at the bottom is slotted.
My actual usage:
Robertson/Square
Phillips
Hex
Pozidrive
Torx
slotted.
Garrick
I try to use Robertsons exclusively. They hold well on the bit and seldom cam out.
Lately I’ve switched to the shockwave bits. They seem tough and come in lots of lengths. The also have round shafts which reduces the likelihood of damage when it rubs a cabinet edge. I never use insert bits (the 1 inch long ones) unless I’m tight on space. I will use an insert bit holder as short extension when needed.
About 70% of my driving is done with a 2 inch #2 Robertson shockwave bit in a Bosch PS21 (2 speed, 12 volt) driver.
ktash
Robertson/square screws are my favorites for woodworking. I’ve tried the spax screws that are supposed to be a combo of square and phillips, but they don’t work near as well if I’m using a square bit, they work ok for phillips. Robertson should replace phillips, but it doesn’t seem to be happening. Because I’m spoiled by Robertson/square I really dislike having to use phillips.
I use the Milwaukee shockwave bits in a driver most frequently for square drive and phillips.
I’ll use a gyro screwdriver (black and decker) if I need to work with slotted screws for something that already has them in it.
RX9
I mostly use torx and phillips bits on screws. My Robertson bits are gathering dust. As a car guy, I tend to use my impact driver and right angle drill as a secondary impact wrench and ratchet, respectively. With that in mind, my socket adapter bits get used heavily. I occasionally use hex shank drill bits in my impact driver.
Mahalo
In my impact driver? Never, ever have I used a slotted bit. I never really thought about it until this post, but you bring up a great point. It also made me think about the way bits are often sold in “combo” packs. Those slotted bits never end up being used.
I do use impact rated bits in my impact driver, and I haven’t found a reason not to use them in my drill/driver. I know that they are designed to “give” at the reduced profile, but for my purposes it doesn’t seem to matter when used in a normal drill/driver. I have used Torx, Robertson, Phillips, and once or twice a combo Robertson+Phillips bit with anti-cam (ACR) for deck screws. Those bits work great, by the way, but obviously only on screws that are Robertson+Phillips drive.
Chip
Speaking of bits…..have you had a friend “help” run screws in,by turning drill/impact @1200rpmsand the screw turning 600? Metal shavings, where your bit and fastener were once pristine. I helped a buddy with a project,of which he couldn’t get……. that the centerline of bit should run thru the screw……not @a 15deg angle,or running deck screws below the surface on wood. Ok rant over haha.
Mike
I saw a video just like that not too long ago!
(Sorry, I could not help myself.)
Jon
Anytime I replacing or updating something around the house that uses a slotted screw (except for outlet covers), I replace the slotted screw with Phillips screws. For a while I would save the slotted screws for future use, now I just throw them out.
Like the floppy disc and CD-ROM, slotted screws are obsolete.
fred
I agree – with the exception of period-piece furniture or built-in restorations where you should try to use the old fasteners – or if not possible replace then in-kind (e.g. brass slotted screws, hand-made or cut nails etc.)
Nick HD
This one’s easy to answer – you use the matching bit for whatever fastener head type is encountered. Exactly.
I avoid using power drivers for straight/slotted heads, but when I am using power tools (on Phillips, Posidriv, Robertson, Apex, Hex or Torx heads), I tend to favour Wera and Wiha brand bits.
My golden rule is that if the fastener bit is contained in the centre of its fastener, then power drivers are OK – at low torque settings and slow speeds. If the bit can slide out of the fastener’s side, turn it by hand.
Nathan
question then – if all the companies, screw makers etc etc – all just agreed to move to torx head?
would that suffice for all situations and be the better overall option?
there is a part of me that says yes. for everything.
eCo
Which Torx ?
.Torx ?
..Torx TR ?
…External Torx ?
….SPAX Torx ?
…..Torx Plus, IP or EP ?
……Torx Plus tamper-resistant, TS or IPR ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx#Variants
http://www.acument.com/products/torx-and-torx-plus/torx-plus/
http://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/sites/www.emhartamericas.com/files/downloads/Torx_Plus_Brochure_EN.pdf
Endless debate; big profits ahead… 😉
Personally, all my screws are now Torx, down to 3×12 !! (metric size, I’m from Europe)
Bubs
I found a new and very helpful use for the slotted bit. I was confronted with seriously cammed out phillips bolts on an office chair–installed by the manufacturer. The phillips bit in my drill/driver couldn’t get enough purchase to loosen them. I used my 3/16 slotted bit from my Picquc multi-bit screwdriver in my new/first M12 impact driver and it loosened it very nicely and re-installed with no problem! Oh, and I also invented a new driver bit–the “twisted-slotted” bit. While I was replacing that bit I ordered a set of impact-rated bits–including some slotted ones. A better solution than I would have thought.