I went to a local home center the other day , knowing they carried, or usually carried some things I was looking to buy.
I went looking for de-waxed shellac, and they had it, but only in gallon size. I only wanted a quart.
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They had the satin water-based polyacrylic finish I was interested in, but the quart of satin finish was sold out, only leaving the super-pricey smallest size. I need 2 quarts, not half a pint.
I also wanted to buy 4-foot and 6-foot ladder, and while there were plenty of the 250 lb-rated ladders on sale, where was the 300 lb-rated one I thought they had carried and was looking to buy?
So I left, with no de-waxed shellac sanding sealer, no poly finish, and no ladder. I’ll head to another location today to see what I can pick up.
But ordering online is not all glamorous either.
I ordered a fiberglass ladder online. It arrived with scrapes, dings, and shallow gouges that I’m not too happy about. I thought it would have been shipped with better protection. No, it wasn’t the one shown above, it was a Louisville-made Dewalt.
Yes, certain tools and pieces of equipment will be worn and damaged with time. But it really irks me when there’s damage and wear before the first use.
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I still need some de-waxed shellac sanding sealer, and found a different clear finish I want to try, but Rockler has a 7-10 day shipping quote, with no other option.
I’ve really been spoiled by Amazon Prime. Amazon does offer the same stuff, but I’m a little hesitant. Rockler likely knows better how to ship quarts of finish. Still, I’ll give it a try. The alcohol-diluted shellac might take a little longer to ship, but the poly looks like it’ll come in 2 days. Both are claimed to arrive in 2 days.
They’re a few dollars more via Amazon, but it looks like I’ll get them quicker. And with 2-day access for the polyurethane, I don’t necessarily have to buy 2 cans at once. I can work through the first quart and order the second when I’m sure I need it.
If you buy a can of paint/shellac/finish in-store, you can be (almost) sure there’s no damage. Ordering online offers no guarantees. I guess… wish me luck?
As for the ladders, I’ll be heading to a different Home Depot today. I’ve been making due with step ladders, but for the stuff I’ll be doing soon I’ll need A-frame ladders with their larger footing.
Steve
I know its too much to ask, but very few stores actually employ people who know anything about the products they are selling. The biggest stores – home depot, lowes, rona, are the worst for this. If you can actually find someone they don’t know where anything is.
Canadian tire is one of the few stores where you can ask any employee where an item is and they respond with ” yes aisle X about halfway down on the right at chest level”.
If your job involves staying in a building all day walking around, get to know what you are selling.
3ymbie
I was at a Canadian Tire waiting for 45 minutes while they tried to find a closet rod. Their app said they have 52 in stock. Also had 29 of the larger sizes. After 45 minutes, they concluded that they have no clue where these items were. So I went to a nearby Home Hardware, asked about closed rods, walked to Isle 34 (?) and picked-up what I needed.
Anyways… Canadian Tire is hit or miss.
Biff
I worked at Home Depot many years ago. I also worked at a few Ace stores as a kid.
It’s impossible to know everything about every product in a big box store. There are tens of thousands of items in there and it’s not realistic to expect some guy making 2 bucks over minimum wage to know every application and detail of them all.
Better to just do your research before hand.
Retail has high turnover. Low pay. And you get treated like dirt by every jackass that walks in who expects you to have all the answers about whatever their dangerously stupid project is.
If you want Home Depot to hire experienced people I hope you enjoy paying 50% more for everything in there.
KL
Yep, the “Look Local First” campaigns just make me chuckle. Every time I try to shop locally I regret it. I think we’re just in a changing time and B&M is slowly dying. I do wish more online retailers would get onboard w 2-day shipping at very reasonable costs –seems to this is the key to really competing w local stores (ie the consumer wants it soon)
Years ago I ordered a 4′ ladder from HD, one of the uber-duty double sided ones. It came in a huge cardboard box w no damage. Seems packaging on big items is unpredictable
Bigskydoc
The Home Depot and Lowe’s apps are awesome. Without leaving the house, I can find out whether an item is in stock, and exactly where it is located (which aisle and which bay). If it isn’t in stock, I can order from within the app and have it shipped free. Not as fast as Prime, but if the likelihood of returning the item is high, it is more convenient.
A tip. If the item shows as in stock and the shelf is empty, go to the customer service desk to ask for it. They will confirm that the item is in stock and send an employee to get it from the back. If you ask one of the floor workers, they will almost always tell you that the app is wrong and the item isn’t in stock. I assume this is because they don’t want the hassle of going to the back to find it.
When I am shopping in person, I usually have the Amazon app open to check reviews and any other options of any item I may be interested in.
We are lucky enough to still have a couple of independent hardware stores locally. They get all of my business possible, but in off hours, Home Depot/Lowe’s/Amazon are the only option.
Ron
Good point. Check the website of the physical store app or website to see if the item is in stock. Its not a fair comparison if you can check the infinite space of the internet for a product and then be annoyed when 1 physical store with finite space is out of stock.
Stuart
My Home Depot experiences have been different than yours. If I want an item that’s in stock but not on a peg or shelf, an associate will help me hunt it down and will retrieve it from a top pre-stocked position.
But the other day, I hadn’t considered finding an employee to help, and I was also with my son whose fondness for Home Depot is in direct competition with his limited patience for waiting in one spot for too long.
Derek
Your Home Depot experience is only as good as the guy working there. I went last week to buy some spray paint. Check online and it said they had 9 cans of that color in stock…I get their and that space is empty. I ask an employee for it, he looks it up on their computer, and sees 9. So he tells me they recently got a truck in, and they haven’t taken the material off the pallets yet. I asked if he could go back and get it, and he told me to stop back tomorrow and it should be on the shelf. Great customer service. s/
BonPacific
I’ve always had good luck with employees at the big boxes finding things that are in overstock or top shelves. I can understand them not breaking open the shipping crates/pallets while you wait there. That’s a much bigger job than just grabbing a forklift to bring down what you need off a tall shelf, and they probably don’t want one worker taking an hour to do so, and possibly messing up their inventory further.
Robert
If their computer shows 9 then they have scanned it and it is NOT still on the pallets. You may notice the tons and tons of small to medium boxes on the top one or two shelves. This is where items are stocked and any Big Box store now has hand helds that will tell them EXACTLY where to look for anything they show in stock.
Les
Actually work at Lowes and the trouble is we don’t scan anything off the truck, we rely on good faith receiving from our warehouse and the worst thing is sometimes stores share a door at the warehouse and product will be shipped to the wrong store. Trust me it’s as frustrating for us as well.
BonPacific
Being able to search their current stock is a lifesaver, especially with 2 HDs and 2 Lowes nearby (dense suburbs) I can figure out which store has what I want. I’ve started using the pickup in store option more and more as well, it usually takes less than two hours for them to grab everything, and I get text when its ready.
Amazon offers Prime Now in my areas, which is handy, but they have a very limited selection of tools/hardware. Given I live near one of their largest distribution warehouses, it would be nice to see them offer a little more.
Christopher Luce
Big Boxes have disrupted the home improvement/hardware scene, now they are in the maximizing profits phase. They are stocking based on maximum stock turn-over and margin. They aren’t going to stock the 1a and 1aa ladders when they can stock the Type 1 ladders in more colors and sell more.
I now hesitate to buy tools from big boxes, not knowing if they are going to discontinue the line and end any easy exchanges. Even their house brand changes manufactures, sometimes making what should be a simple exchange a huge hassle.
I order most of my tools online. Most of my trips to the big box just end in frustration. Lack of product knowledge, lack of product, lack of stock-keeping, even lack of cashiers. HD is still the first place I go when I need a repair item, but I just window-shop the tools.
Toolboxhero
I don’t have a Lowes or Home Depot – Only Menards, but I will say the two Menards I shop are many times better than they were 10 years ago for knowledgeable staff. Now they even carry many of the old familiar name brands I like.
I’ve had great luck with shipping from Amazon. I’ve bought paint through them, sanding sealer and even 40lb bags of Scotts grass seed. Everything came packaged well without a scratch.
I will say that I’ll buy directly from Amazon whenever I can instead of the third party sellers.
RC Ward
All brick and mortar stores are hit and miss. Sometimes you find someone that knows something and is helpful and sometimes you don’t. But I would rather anyday, go and get what I want and not have to order it online and hope it comes on time and in one piece and you don’t get one that someone else returned and they send it to the next guy to see if he will take it. Both ways have their bad point as you said.
Jeffrey
While I do shop at big box stores and department stores sometimes, it is rarely an ideal experience. I prefer Amazon. The big box stores usually have “good enough” tools, not good tools. There are exceptions to this (Klein at Home Depot, and Knipex in a few big boxes)…
Online, you can price shop. You can get the exact product you want (not some corporate bean counters choice), too. You can then have it delivered right to your door.
None of these companies are loyal to the American worker. Why give them your money. These are the people who ruined small town America. I feel absolutely no loyalty to them.
Ron
I’ll tell you why you should be loyal to them (within reason). Home Depot and the like employ a hundred people at every store. These people spend their money in the local community. Employees also pay local taxes and state taxes which benefits where u live. Home Depot also collects state sales tax in my state of PA. Amazon pays no workers in your area and pays very limited state sales tax.
Jeffrey
I want to add a point…
Sears has a really bad online/retail strategy. It is often cheaper on Sears.com than in the actual store. Are they actually trying to get you to stop shopping in the store? It sometimes seems like they are.
Mike
It’s puzzled me for a long while as well. First items were cheaper online but were still in the stores. Rather than take an item to the register, it was less expensive to order on one of their computers or your phone, wait for an employee to walk past you and pick up the item, then wait for him to take it back to the pickup area and process a bunch of paperwork.
Now few tools are even in the stores. Everything but the most basic items (or whatever holiday ‘Hot Buy’ items are being pushed) are no longer stocked. They’re online only and have to be shipped out.
And their online shopping experience is terrible. It’s slow and difficult to find items. Their website is pathetically slow and crashes browsers with all the useless Java applets that need to load before you can even view prices. Advertisements for other retailers on the Sears website? How bottom of the barrel are they trying to get?
So you can’t get most things in the stores and buying them at sears.com is at best painful. Where does Sears expect to make sales?
I read an article a little while ago that might explain things and more or less confirms what some people have said for years:
http://www.businessinsider.com/sears-obsession-with-wall-street-2016-3
The photos are pretty much what the last store near me looks like. Lots of open shelf space with all the products down at one end. This is what they stopped stocking items for, empty space that makes the place already look like a going out of business clearance sale.
ktash
Sears is the saddest case. Sears used to have the best of everything at reasonable prices. Paint, kid’s clothes, appliances, and of course, tools. Sears even sold houses! Here’s an article about it.
http://www.oldhousejournal.com/magazine/2002/july/sears.shtml
Compare that to the article above about Wall Street digits being more important than real life products and customers and you can see what has happened not just with Sears, but more broadly. I can’t tell you how sad I find the pictures of the dying Sears, and of course, walking into my local Sears I see those pictures in real life.
Toolfreak
Even though the lower online prices say “online only price”, the hardware dept will usually price match it, if you get people who know/care. Sometimes they have to get a manager, sometimes they just need to check the price at the in-store kiosk to verify it’s the same item number.
The weird part is a lot of those “online only price” items show as not available for delivery or store pick-up, but if you go to the store, they do have them. So a price match is pretty much the only way to buy it at that price.
Jerry
Unless I am going to the store, I usually order online, especially if I know exactly what I want. Part if not most of that reason is travel time to a store of any size (I live 45 minutes from the nearest stoplight and even then there are only 3 in the whole town) so shopping for anything but the basics takes some real time and effort. However there are some things I feel is worth the trip. As someone who doesn’t like heights at all, I won’t buy a ladder sight unseen. You can’t believe the difference in ‘shakiness’ between ladders of the same weight rating. Unless it is significantly cheaper online I will get it at the store that let’s me test a few to see if they are OK for my needs. Also, hand tools I plan to use a lot, are worth checking out for ‘feel’. Lastly, I actually enjoy wandering around a store, because it is much easier to find things on sale or so mething new by just checking out the displays. Some stores like our nearest Menard’s will put clearance items in a special place in the store that you will not find online. Home Depot seems to have the clearance prices online, but for me, it is much easier to find sale stuff I might be interested in at the store.
On the other hand, when I am looking for something specific going online let’s me compare prices much faster, and nothing beats the convenience of having it delivered to my door.
Benjamen
Speaking of Menards clearance items, they actually do put a good number of the clearance items online on Rays List, and tell you if the individual stores have them in stock: https://www.menards.com/main/c-13275.htm
But the prices in store are usually higher than the prices they list online. You can also see stuff people ordered into the store but didn’t pickup or returned sold for a discount.
John
Ironically I’ve seen more damage at the actual B&M store and in particular the local Home Depot. Several occasions at this Home Depot I’ve gone in and tried to buy something in stock and it’s been layed in such a destructive manner. I too was looking for a ladder and a set of metal saw horses. The saw horses looked like someone just threw them in a pile and I spent a better part of 30 minutes going through this pile and extracting two without damage. All of them dented, scratched and rusting on the exposed scratches. I couldn’t find 2 good ones out of the probably 15 in the pile. All of them damaged. Given these show up as “in stock” I imagine they’ll never get a new stock to replace them either. So this section will be a black hole till someone realizes no ones buying them cause their damaged. Same deal with the ladders, scaffolding, and even most of the building materials (melamine boards wet at some point and bulging). You’d think they’d have some pride in displaying non damaged materials and tools but stuff just thrown around, it’s actually pretty insulting as a customer.
Stuart
But at least when that happens you don’t have to buy the item.
When you get a damaged product delivered to you, you have to live with it, or go through the hassle of a return.
Ron
Yes and the hassle increases exponentially with the size and weight of the product.
RKA
B&M’s of all sorts are a frustrating waste of time for me for exactly the reasons you described. If I can avoid a trip to the store and order online, I’ll gladly keep the 90 mins I saved going out to the store.
However, I have started using Home Depot’s website lately to check stock and location. I’ll make a list of what I need so the time in store is minimized. I’ve found I get a lot less frustrated this way. And every time I decide to skip the extra step of checking online first, guess what? Can’t find it, out of stock, it will be in later this week, etc. 90 mins down the hole.
Justin
+1 for Canadian Tire employees! They don’t just hire children there, and they seem to know what they are working with and where it is located in the store. 90% of the time at least.
When you get (very) lucky and can actually find an employee on the floor in a Lowes/Home Depot store here in Ontario, you better hope they’re over 60 years old or your not finding the item you want for a while.
Hurrah
Store associate to hardware please!
Ron
Those of you who hate the “B&M” stores make me laugh. Yet, where is the first place you run to when you need an emergency item that can’t wait on the job?
I’ve seen it many times.
Joren
Speaking of Amazon lately, they’ve been driving me nuts! Item shipped from them, purchased through them, guaranteed delivery date of X, and this summer it’s been five or six times I’ve had date X pass by, and they still have yet to ship the item. Often it’s been 1 day shipping items, but even with 2 day, it’s taken a week or so to get items. Often I’ve ended up for IT things, I’m buying from B&H in NY (I’m in PA), as they are more reliable and will ship things when they say they will.
Ladders on the other hand, I just setup a craigslist search for – seems I can get better ‘used’ ones locally, than anything in a box store. Especially the 375lb rated ones.
Strange world. Not sure where things will go next, but it seems even Amazon is no longer ‘easy’.
BonPacific
This. Amazon has definitely taken a downward turn in the last six months to a year. Its harder to tell the good products from the crap, and their shipping is getting worse. It seems the more they focus on their 2-hour and grocery services, the core business is getting back-burnered. Either that or Bezos is finally trying to rein in the money they’ve been needing with loss-leader services.
I was actually enjoying JET for awhile, but now they’ve been bought by Walmart I can’t justify giving them money.
Satch
First I will address the whole ‘support local over online’. Sorry, it does not make it some catch-all for how to conduct commerce. 125 years ago Sears was in the sights of every frontier ‘general store’ because their mail order catalogue was able to undercut the retailers by significant margins. Particularly for things like building materials due to their buying power. It is why at one time you could order whole house kits from them. Even motorcycles at one time and I think even cars. Over time they dropped what became more convenient to buy…locally.
Ironically, it was Sears and Barnes & Noble who beefed the loudest when Amazon came along. Their failure to adopt online ordering as a full compliment to their stores was silly. Sears particularly was well placed to be a major player in online retail. If they would have kept to tools and outdoor equipment, major and counter top appliances, and major electronics they would have done pretty well I think. Especially with their built in purchasing abilities since they had their own credit card already.
Okay, more to the point. Online for good hand tools most times. You simply cannot get the model selection you want at almost any brick and mortar store. It is too much to ask them to stock it all. And besides Menard’s pretty solid selection of Knipex, the other two main players do not stock that big a selection of the major brands like Klein. Even at Home Desperate the Klein selection is pretty sparse compared to their catalogue. Power tools? Almost always a good mix of both online and in store. The big boxes know how to negotiate for power tools. It is rare to genuinely best their pricing and returns are always easier there.
Ladders and paint/finishes? Almost always in store. Prices are just as good because of the shipping issues with things like flamable finishes and the bulkiness of things like ladders and tool chests.
Toolfreak
It’s still kind of hard to break the old-school habit of going to the store and looking for whatever it is you’re after, rather than looking it up online and seeing if it’s in stock and comparing the prices between stores, and what you can get it for online with shipping.
Places like Home Depot and Lowe’s could really help out their customers by having store-to-store transfer of items, so if the paint I want at store A is out of stock, but store B which is 180 miles away has tons of it, I can order the gallons I need and have it in the next day or two. A delivery truck that is dropping off at Store B and Store A could simply take on the store-to-store items, rather than have empty, unused space.
I realize one reason they don’t do this is inventory, but it seems like it’d be easy enough to take out 4 gallons of paint from Store B and add them when they arrive at Store A.
Just another thing that seems obvious to me but stores don’t seem to do. Even if they only offered this for certain minimum purchases (say, $500+), or for commercial customers, I think they’d get a lot more business, or at least lose a lot less to competitors.
Dan
HD, Lowes, and other big box and department stores aren’t so bad, IMO: I know what to expect. Some stores make it much easier to shop them by having stock details on their website/in their app, and having staff that are actually willing to help find things, but that’s about all I expect from them.
It’s the specialty stores that drive me to Amazon and other Internet retailers. I’m typically going to a specialty store because I have some questions (and then I can easily thank them by buying from them [assuming reasonable prices/markup] or to buy a quality item. I’ve learned, however, that these specialty stores (I’m most especially thinking of my local Woodcraft) often employ people who know less than me. So, I’ve then got to spend the time to do my own research to find answers. They also often sell the same marginal-quality goods as I can get elsewhere, too. At this point, local specialty stores have proven largely worthless to me: I have to go elsewhere to get the answers I need and to get the products I want.
Tom
One thing that I have noticed recently is that when you order online and select “free in store pickup” you usually get the worst of the selection. I ordered a box of nails at Lowes recently and was given the only one on the shelf with an open box. I bought some caulk at Home Depot online and was given tubes that were clearly cracked. With Sears, I always get the pair of pliers with the nick in the handle. I think that stores use the in store pickup option to try to unload less than perfect merchandise.
David C.
I have noticed this as well on occasion. I do a lot of pick up at my local sears because I can get decent deals ordering it online with points and coupon codes. My favorite was when they tried to give me a two pack of pliers were one of the pliers was rusty, covered in grease and the handles were all nicked up.
Gary
Brick and Mortar all the way.
I realize that I’m in a totally unique situation because I’m in Hawaii…
I use to be all about amazon. Great selection, cheap (free shipping to hawaii), and a great price. Recently the shipping delays have been totally unreasonable, even with prime! I’ve ordered items in stock with an estimated shipping date of 1 year after the date of order!
Considering amazon recently stopped shipping items to Hawaii they consider hazardous or for whatever other reason they can’t explain (I’m guessing it could be oversized or too cheap and large for them to profit on the sale). I’m totally ok with paying some of the shipping fees, but I can’t order it at all.
Most recently amazon stopped shipping anything with a battery in it, however it really is a hit or miss as far as them enforcing this policy.
With many brick and mortars closing, people in Hawaii are screwed. If home depot and Lowes close I wont be able to easily buy spray paint, fuels, aerosols, or solvents. Yes, I’m sure I can go to Sherwin Williams, but the selection is extremely limited.
With the recent closing of sports authority we don’t have ANY big box/chain sporting goods. There might be a few mom and pops here and there, but the selection is extremely limited. I have the choice of buying whatever is on the shelf or ordering sight unseen.
DaveMD
I order online first when possible.
Going to HD has become such a chore, no one knows anything, and I’m constantly being bothered from the Solar people or the ‘have you heard about our new promotion’ kitchen sales pitch…. Before the guy can say something I’m telling them I’m not interested.
I tried to order ahead online to avoid the hassle, but the order is always messed up and I end up finding what I need to correc the order before the staff does. Lowes is preferred but not close.
I try to go local but the selection isn’t there and every time I send the wife (an engineer) to get a coupling or something simple while I’m busy; they treat her like a dumb house wife and tell her she needs something else.