While strolling the tool aisles at the local Lowes, I learned that Stanley FatMax had come with some new screwdrivers. The new drivers, part of a 6-piece set with model number FMHT62052, features (simulated) diamond-coated tips!
Yes, that’s right, they’re (simulated) diamond-coated, in order to provide more grip and better bite. Diamond is a fantastic abrasive – the best there is (to my knowledge) – and so it does provide for an ultra frictiony fastener fit.
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I don’t know if I would use these on fasteners that would see multiple installation and removal cycles, and definitely not on painted fasteners or those made from delicate materials. But for fasteners that will go in and out maybe once or even once in a blue moon, the (simulated) diamond shouldn’t be an issue.
Even though I could only use my smartphone to photograph the (simulated) diamond coating of the Phillips #2 driver, you should be able to see its textured surface.
Hmm, what I really wonder is whether they used economy-quality diamond particles, or very high quality diamond particles. Maybe something in between? In case you’re wondering, these two links lead to past ToolGuyd posts where I show off some electron microscope images I took of diamond abrasive particles.
To the naked eye, industrial diamond particles look like glitter, or even very fine sand. Under the electron microscope, the view is quite different. Sorry, I digressed a bit there, didn’t I.
I wasn’t taking notes, but I believe the 6pc set was $20 at Lowes. Their online product page says that the set is no longer available, which probably means that Stanley shipped everything they have to Lowes’ physical store locations and that we might see them pop up for sale online shortly.
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Oh, and the handles are quad-lobed. They don’t look at all like Stanley’s Proto (and Mac Tools) Duratek screwdrivers, which are made in the USA, but bear closer resemblance to the new Dewalt screwdrivers that were revealed at Dewalt’s recent media event.
What do you think? Leave the (simulated) diamonds for the ladies, or yaaaay (simulated) diamond-coated screwdriver tips?
Here’s Stanley’s 30-second promo video:
Robert
Craftsman has a fairly new diamond coated set with 6 equivalent drivers. They’ve gotten consistently high reviews. They’re currently on sale for $29 with the usual retail being $39. They can be found in most Sears stores at the moment.
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-6-piece-extreme-grip-diamond-tip-screwdriver/p-00915495000P?prdNo=2&blockNo=2&blockType=G2
I would imagine that the Stanley versions would be comparable quality. If they’re only available by mail order however, they’d be close to the sale price on the Craftsman versions after you factor in shipping.
That’s just for what it’s worth. I’d probably be just as happy with the Stanley versions. There is some difference in the grips however, which would be worth comparing before buying.
Gil
They seem to have a limited number of kits at Amazon too http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-Fatmax-Variety-Pack-Screwdriver/dp/B00XV9ARJG
Stuart
I didn’t link there b/c they’re only sold through a 3rd party seller at double the price.
Farid
Looks like to me a solution looking for a problem! Sorry, but could not help, given that all the applications shown in the video should not require any extra friction to accomplish, as long as the proper SIZE screwdriver is used. Nothing beats a properly designed and accurately manufactured screwdriver bit.
(I’ll get off my soap box for now)
Tom Jones
Sorry but I dont think you have actually turned that many screws in the real world. If all is new and sharp good results are possible. Any wear on either end and problems can develop. Give me a sharp edged bit with roughened surface. And no chrome thank you. Can’t tell if these actually have manmade diamonds or just a rough surface. What does “simulated” mean? If some sort of diamonds are on the surface that should stop wear and rounding. That’s what is missing in understanding this new solution. Now give it to me without some silly handle inspired by a jogging shoe. So much wrong headed design…please. You have to spend twice as much to get professional simplicity. Costs no more or less to develop without the gimicks. The genious of books and sweat…..you’re welcome.
fred
Ooh la la? C’est magnifique?
I’m not sure – but we really liked the Wera Impaktor bits with diamond coating.
Wera apparently hasn’t yet made these into fixed blade screwdrivers – but their lasertip screwdrivers are what I reach for most often in my home shop.
So my thoughts are that they are probably worth a try.
Jerry
I say YAY! Anything, and I mean ANYTHING that works towards Phillips head screwdrivers at getting a Berger bite on the screw is a welcome addition. Even if they aren’t the cat’s meow, at least it shows Stanley is at least trying to address the problem of cam-out.
I have an older Craftsman Professional Phillips screwdriver with some sort of textured coating on the tip, and it is my go-to screwdriver whenever I have to remove a Phillips bit that I think may be stubborn. It could mar the finish on some furniture grade hardware more than a smooth bit, but that is not usually where I am concerned about cam-out. The old Stanley screwdrivers from 20 years ago, the USa made ones with the little ribs cut into the tip, were very good drivers, but when mine wore out I could not find them anymore. Hopefully, these new ones will work as well.
On a side note, I wonder about tip life. With diamonds being much harder than any screw head they will ever encounter, i would expect the tips will last longer than uncoated driver tips. Hopefully, the diamonds are well bonded so they can’t flake off.
Jerry
Ps, the only gripe I can see having with these, is that they are magnetic. For my uses, all the magnetism does is cause the tips to become coated with steel filings.
Stan
In case you were wondering, I strongly doubt this Stanley item is USA made. Then again, not much is 100% USA made by Stanley anymore, only made in USA of global components.
Sorry, but I agree with Farid on this tool. Seems to be gimmick as a tried and true screwdrivers have been used for more than a century.
Stuart
Just because “tried and true screwdrivers have been used for more than a century,” doesn’t mean that’s the way things should be.
The Phillips cross-pattern screw socket is prevalent, but there are better screwdriver tip and fastener patterns to use.
The USA is one of 3 countries that hasn’t adopted the metric system. Some countries use select imperial units, but most are unneeded in today’s world. Imperial measurements have been around for a while, doesn’t mean that’s what should be used.
Tongue and groove pliers are tried and true. And they suck compared to adjustable pliers. I still own a couple, but they see very little use these days.
I’m not saying these are THE screwdrivers to own, but don’t knock change. A lot of time, change is good. And I’m not even talking about how much better ergonomic and comfort-grip screwdriver handles are!
Farid
Stuart,
I don’t think I or Stan were knocking change (nor the handles). The diamond coating is an improvement on drive bits. These are not power drive bits, nor real diamonds either.
A lot of times, suppliers jump on the trend bandwagon without really addressing the underlying issue in the first place. As you said, Philips screws have been a round for a long time. It seems every year or two, manufacturers come out with new claims regarding a new bit or screwdriver that is supposed to solve all your problems. It seems a waste of time and energy, when the fundamental problem with the Philips design is that it is not designed to prevent cam-out. That, and the fact that overabundance of screws and screwdrivers out there with real sloppy tolerances and lousy manufacturing. Anymore, I try to avoid Philips heads in application where power drive might be used. Perhaps if there was a more consistent standard for Philips pattern.
Between work and home, I have literally hundreds of bits and screwdrivers of various sizes and there are vast differences in the physical size of the screwdriver bits of the same size! We found that using the screwdriver bit that fit the best for each screw brand used does the best job of preventing damage – more than any other gimmick added to the bit. I stand by my original comment. For the applications shown in the video, you should need anything more than a good set of screwdrivers. If your in the market for new screwdrivers, then by all means, but I am not going to rush out and by these no matter how cheap they are. Both the video and the product are pure marketing development, not real breakthrough.
Stan
Farid, THANK YOU! This is EXACTLY what I am meant. I am all for change, but let’s be real, this is just another gimmick and both Stuart and Ben B have both mentioned this isn’t made out a real diamond.
Coatings are great and do make a difference in the beginning perhaps. But in a long term situation, instead of fixing the problem, companies try these stupid workarounds that make claims that almost never hold up. Truth of the matter is, the Phillips design is going to cam out no matter what.
As Farid has mentioned, if you are in the market for new screwdrivers, do what you have to. However, I will add that you might want to think critically and look at the video and product. All I see is just yet another gimmick and nothing truly is innovative.
Hang Fire
The USA adopted the Metric system decades ago. See any Army or NASA publication. The US government simply does not enforce consumer products to be made to Metric dimensions, but it does require some product labeling to have Metric quantities.
Gary T.
I bought these screwdrivers and I also purchased the Craftsman extreme grip screwdrivers. You know what, I think Stanley makes the Craftsman screwdrivers. If you look at the slotted blades, they look identical and have the same offset on the sides of the blades. I like both of them, but I like the Craftsman version a little better.
The handles on the Craftsman screwdrivers feel more sold and have slightly more weight to them. The handles on both are similar in shape except the Craftsman have the grooves in the handle (for extra grip I guess). Sears also sells a version of the Stanley screwdrivers, but with cheaper blades.
Bill K
The additional bite with the diamond grip sounds like a good idea. Wonder about the durability.
In looking at the Philips coated driver tip picture, it looks to have a constant edge thickness like JIS and unlike conventional Philips tips. If that is the case, then by design this driver tip will not cam-out by design. The diamond coating would only help.
Can anyone verify my observation?
Bill K
Hands-on inspection: Phillips tip shape appears to be very convention, not JIS. Nothing special!
JML
Lee Valley has long sold German-made diamond-dust-coated 1/4″ bits: http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,43411,43417&p=56716
I have a full set. Work well for those difficult-to-remove screws and doesn’t destroy them.
BenB
I don’t think Stanley is saying that they are Diamon Coated. They are diamond simulated.
Stuart
Hmm, good point. Still, depending on what the “simulated diamond” material is, it’s going to have similar properties. Maybe it’s artificial zirconia, sapphire, or similar.
Thanks, I’ll update the post accordingly. I should have caught this myself.
Tina
As I known these diamond coating series had used industrial diamond.
however, don’t Stuart needs to confirm or testify it before updating the post or comment it any further?
fred
I’m guessing that clarity and sparkle were not necessary – and nobody is likely to test the tips of these with one of those electronic diamond testers to see if its cz, moissanite, or some yttrium-aluminum oxide.
https://www.google.com/#q=pmut+tester
T
Id be more interested in the quality of blade steel and the grind profile, especially if they are put into pro use. I used SK branded, Bost made (Facom france), sparkle coated tip drivers a number of years ago – worked ok until the blade tips wore out (coating and profile) quickly. If Stanley packs these individually, Ill try one for s/g. Until then, Ill stick with my fav German made Wurth (Felo) drivers with excellent steel and perfect profiles. Gimmicks hide imperfections and performance shortfalls.
SteveR
I don’t know…I’ve got more screwdrivers and bits (lots of bits) than I know what to do with. If you’re in the same boat, but have problems with generating enough friction to remove the occasional stubborn screw, nut or bolt, an alternative might be Screw Grab. It comes in a small bottle, 0.5 fluid oz./15 ml, and is referred to by the manufacturer as “friction drops” on the label. It’s an abrasive fluid available on Amazon for $9.95 with free shipping with a $35.00 order, or through Amazon Prime at no additional cost.
The nice thing is it can be used on all types of screws, as well as nuts and bolts turned by wrenches or a ratchet with a socket. This expands the number of fastener types it’s able to improve your grip on, so it may be a worthwhile alternative. Reviews were generally favorable, so it would be worth a look if you’re on the fence about simulated diamond-tipped screwdrivers. It purports to increase your grip up to 800%. That’s probably an exaggeration, but simply doubling or tripling your twisting force would be helpful in many cases.
And don’t forget to try things like penetrating fluid (particularly PB Blaster), or CRC Freeze-Off Super Penetrant. The latter “freezes and cracks rust”, which can be safer than heating a chewed-up, corroded fastener. Many of us don’t have a propane or other torch available (I don’t), so it’s a different way to approach the problem.
fred
One old trick for getting out stubborn screws was to hold the screwdriver tight into the screw and then pound on the back of the handle while turning. This sometimes works – and is probably best used with a screwdriver that has a shaft extending through the handle – or a handle cap designed for this purpose (ToolGuyd has posted about some of these in the past)
Another variation on this theme is to use a impact screwdriver – once fairly commonly sold in auto parts stores. These employ interchangeable impact bits (often 5/16 or 3/8 hex drive) and use a spring-loaded mechanism in the body that you “cock” then release (to apply torque) with a hammer blow.
A variation on this is this pricey slide hammer screwdriver:
http://www.amazon.com/Mega-Impact-Screwdriver-GKL-Products/dp/B00D2C3E38/
Finally – when bit braces were a more commonly used tool – they were often used with a screwdriver bit – to apply pressure and torque to removing a stubborn screw. My experience (probably 40 years ago) from using this method was that it worked – except when it broke the screw-head off.
SteveR
I suppose most of us have tried the pound-on-the-screwdriver trick out of desperation. The Mega Impact Screwdriver is a tool a professional would turn to, but size and cost would be limiting factors for most DIYers. It’s interesting to know it’s out there,
though.
A cheaper alternative would be a simple impact driver, which would run between $15 and $50 through Amazon; they’re also available through auto parts stores and industrial suppliers like Grainger, MSC, McMaster-Carr. They are most often used with stuck nuts and bolts, but the more expensive models come with impact-rated screwdriver bits. I keep one (and a hammer) in the trunk to help remove lug nuts when changing a tire. They can also be reversed to re-tighten lug nuts after the tire has been changed out.
And there are damaged screw extractor sets like Alden’s “Grabit”, which require a drill to use them. The problem with those is that if it doesn’t work, you’ve destroyed the screw head, forcing you to drill out the screw. That can be a tedious task all by itself.
No matter what you use, it all comes down to finesse. Start out slowly, gradually increasing the amount of force until you either succeed or determine a particular tool won’t work in this situation.
fred
If you can grab the screw head – then some of the Engineer screw pliers that Stuart has posted abut might do the trick.
Screw extractors have always proved problematical for me. I usally start with using a left-handed cobalt drill bit.
SteveR
I had forgotten about those screw pliers; I bought a pair (which I think are identical to Vampliers models), but haven’t had an opportunity to use them yet.
I can sympathize with your experience using extractors. The sets that utilize a LH drill bit to start the process can sometimes pull it out just by running the drill in reverse–but not always. I’m less enthused about the extractor/easy-out that is then used to remove the screw. They’re rather large, aren’t very sharp for grabbing the screw to remove it and can spin around if you don’t start slowly until it catches.
A few months back I purchased an Irwin Hanson Straight
Flute Extractor Set #53645 on Amazon. They, too, are wider at the top than at the bottom, but have four sharp straight (concave) flutes each. I believe these wedge in tighter and start more easily than the spiral flutes (which have five flutes) used in the extractor set described above, and you can use a hammer to get them seated.
In both cases, you need a tap wrench to turn these, as the top part resembles a square drive in both sets. As you know, these sets don’t come with the tap wrench, so you have to buy one or more if you don’t own a tap and die set. I don’t use an adjustable wrench on them as they’re awkward (hard to start and keep turning straight). You could use a ratchet with a socket, but the tap wrench gives you more control.
Ken S.
I lightly sandblast the tips of some of my screwdrivers for a better “bite” which does help, so I would have to assume this would work just as well, but for a longer period of time.
T
Ill add a good ol trick: dip the tip in valve grinding compound then knock the driver into screw with a hammer to seat the blade, works great.
SteveR
Stuart–This may seem a little off-topic, but I’m mentioning it for everyone’s benefit. I just watched the “How Screwdrivers Are Made” video from the popular series, “How It’s Made”. You can catch that on cable TV (Discovery Channel) or on YouTube. They made these for several types of tools, including ratchets, sockets and combination wrenches, among others. They also happen to have filmed these primarily using video taken in a Snap-on Tools factory.
In the process, they included a short bit showing how some of their screwdrivers also have a hex bolster included on them (both Phillips and slotted styles) to increase turning force on difficult-to-remove screws. My reason for mentioning this is that you rarely see anyone using the bolster for that purpose, as if the user doesn’t realize what the bolster is for. Of course, many brands don’t offer this feature, nor even the helpful shaft knurling that’s also offered on some smaller screwdrivers. Yet another feature on some (not many) are the anti cam-out ribs on Phillips drivers.
I dug through my toolbag, and discovered I had several small and large Snap-on screwdrivers that did have the hex bolster. One has a 1/4″ wide slotted end (3″ shaft), and another has a #2 Phillips driver (4″ shaft). Both of these were hard-handled plastic drivers from the early 90s, which look exactly like the J.H. Williams screwdrivers you can now purchase as a set on Amazon. While writing this, I realized I typically turn to my ratcheting screwdriver(s) these days for most jobs, which have none of these features.
Anyway, my point is that if you’re having difficulty removing a screw, try using these features to your advantage if the screwdriver has it. Those with the hex bolster can be turned with an adjustable wrench, combination wrench or flare nut wrench Most of us just plow on ahead, and end up damaging the screw or the driver’s tip, or both. I’m not as familiar with other domestic brands and European-makes (Wera, Wiha, etc.) that may have them. However, some probably offer one or more of these features, which can save the day with hard-to-remove screws.
Furious
Bought them. Used them. Like them – alot.
Replaced a set of 30 year old standard tip Stanley screwdrivers with these. A major improvement. First: The handles are comfortably beefy and rubber for a good grip and application of torque. Next: The simulated diamond tips (with equal hardness to real diamonds) really do hold onto screws better – much better. They don’t cam out. Third: they are magnetic which helps with one handed operation in hard to reach circumstances. Four: The handles are color coded for either phillips or standard.
Rick Siegert
Right now (10/26/17) the Craftsman sets are selling at Sears for half price, making the 6 tool set $19.99. I picked up a set. I also just bought the Fat Max Diamond set at a local employee owned store for $14.99). I haven’t opened either package, and am looking at them, and their handles. I am a homeowner, and only do casual projects. I had a great handled Craftsman set, before I moved cross country, and they vanished with my toolbox…
I think that I don’t need the extra heft of the Craftsman grips, but still thinking on it, for a few more days.
christopher baker
As much as I very much like that these resist camming out, the end of the tip broke off during my first use of the #2 size philips screwdriver. I hope this was a fluke.