In response to a recent post, a number of readers expressed an interest in cordless power tool kits being bundled with matching modular tool boxes.
“Festool does it, why not other brands?” seems to be a common argument.
I hate to break it to you, but it’s never becoming the norm in the USA.
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Every so often, we’ll see promo tool kits that are bundled with modular tool boxes, such as this Dewalt 20V Max and ToughSystem bundle.
Milwaukee offered a couple of M18 cordless power tool and Packout tool box bundles a few years ago, and once or twice since then.
Certain tools are bundled with modular tool boxes, such as the Milwaukee M18 Fuel track saw, and Dewalt’s 20V Max press tool kit.
Bosch used to have different cordless power tool and L-Boxx tool box bundles, complete with molded inserts.
Back in 2020, Bosch stopped shipping many tools with L-Boxx inserts.
In my opinion, tools and modular tool box bundles won’t be popularized anytime soon.
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It costs more. Bundles might force tool users to spend more for a tool box they don’t want or need, potentially driving them towards other brands’ lower cost options.
“But Festool does it!” Yes, and you’re paying for the included Systainers whether you want them or not. Festool tools are priced at a premium and typically cost much more than other brands’ tools or solutions.
Let’s say two competing tool brands both have $300 cordless power tool combo kits, but one of them throws in a tool box and raised the price to $350 accordingly. While some might be happy saving $5 to $10 on a cordless kit and tool box, the higher-priced brands will likely lose sales overall.
Don’t underestimate how price-conscious and driven consumers often are.
They take up more space. A lot of work is done to package cordless power tools and kits in as small a volume as possible. The more tools you can fit into a shipping container or pallet, the lower the cost to move them from factory to warehouse or point of sale.
A product’s footprint and packaging volume can make a difference as to how many can be stocked at retail stores, which is a very important consideration during high volume sales seasons.
There are also production volume considerations. How many more tool boxes would be needed to create cordless bundles for additional SKUs?
Tool users like choices. I want to be able to put a Dewalt tool in a Packout tool box, and vice versa.
One might argue that cordless power tool kits come with things like belt clips or chargers that a buyer might not need.
Belt clips and other such accessories can be a hassle to source separately. They have low value and are easier to bundle into a kit in case the user wants them. Only the most entry-level and budget-focused kits skip the belt clips.
As for chargers, they’re necessary to get customers going right out of the box. If you need a tool and a battery, it’s often more economical to get the complete. If you just need the tool and no battery, tool-only kits are more economical. If you get a kit, the charger probably doesn’t materially contribute to the retail price, and they don’t increase the size by a whole lot.
Some brands offer everything a la carte, but it’s not common.
Will bundling high quality tool boxes with cordless kits make anyone more money? This is what it comes down to. I’d say the answer is no.
Do you want custom-fitted inserts? A lot of brands and 3rd party companies offer customizable foam. If there was sufficient volume, I’d bet they’d produce custom inserts outside of special promotional bundles.
With Milwaukee’s M12 and Packout organizer bundles, a common complaint was that it doesn’t come with organizer bins. You can buy those bins separately, but that doesn’t stop a lot of customers from griping about it.
Milwaukee has Packout and screwdriver bit assortment bundles, and customers complained that it came with bins but no bespoke storage for the accessory set.
So now you can get Milwaukee accessory sets that take the place of the removable bins included with Packout organizers.
Most tool brands and retailers listen closely to what customers say they want, and also to what their wallets and spending habits are saying.
Let’s say you want a new cordless drill and impact driver combo kit, and you wish it came with a modular tool box. Are you going to buy all of that anyway, in the form of a combo kit and separate tool box? Then what’s the incentive for the retailer to bundle everything together?
If you’re looking to buy a Festool Domino floating tenon cutting tool, is the inclusion of a Systainer going to make or break your decision?
A $50 to $100 increase in price – or more – is absolutely going to steer users away from cordless power tool combo kits.
What size of tool box might be included with a cordless sander?
Oscillating multi-tool?
Heat gun?
At some point, tool users will end up with more tool boxes than they want – if any.
I think we could see more specialty tools in modular tool boxes, but sometimes the sizing doesn’t mesh well.
Until it is, or there’s huge demand for it, bundled modular tool boxes will remain an exception.
Nathan
A impact wrench with battery packaged in a box with space for impact sockets and maybe an extension or 2 might work. Same with a power ratchet and space for sockets ..
Say tough system box. Medium. DeWalt compact impact dcf921 and battery with a few pieces then tray above for 15 impact sockets 2 extensions
Another med box cordless ratchet battery and space above sockets and extensions and breaker bar or manual ratchet
Farkleberry
This gets to why it’s a niche idea at best.
You want one medium box with a 1/2″ impact and some sockets? Another medium with 1/2″ ratchets, breaker bar and more sockets?
Same sockets? Different sockets?
Ok if you can open up and work out of both boxes, rather than unstacking and shuffling. Are you constantly bending down to access these boxes open on the ground?
The appeal of modular storage is everyone can set up differently as needs and preferences vary and often change.
I’m not saying your suggested setup is bad, just personal to you.
The Packout ratchet set in slim organizer is actually pretty space efficient tray wise, (though the latch/cleat system adds significant relative height). Having this kit above a drawer unit with impact driver and power ratchets could work, but will full sets of impact sockets, extensions, swivels, etc. overload weight capacity or plastic drawers? Probably.
If you go back to boxes, are you unstacking, bending down on ground, or do you bring a folding table everywhere to array all your open boxes (with lids interfering with each other)?
Look at the examples above. A packout box with a drill combo makes sense on the surface, and adds protection. It also adds size and weight, in stores and in use.
You’re ready to use your drill, what goes in it? Now you’re opening another box for bits, etc.
The big combo’s in large boxes seem to make more sense. There are a lot of tools and a charger/batteries crammed in there. Problem? Where are all the accessories and consumables stored? In another box? In multiple separate boxes or organizers? Always opening two or more boxes for every task is inefficient.
Now there’s unstacking, since all your tools are in bottom box.
What about drawers? The drawers are even smaller and more limiting on how many tools with accessories fit, size and weight wise. They’re also more expensive, and would add a lot to bundled tool purchases.
MFC
Yeah, I hear people saying they want all of their tools in packout, tough system, etc. But I definitely don’t. I only put my tools in drawers or cabinets. I refuse to unstack and have to lift a lid. I have too many tools to do that and left Ridgid because they didn’t have drawers at the time.
Give me bare tools and I’ll put them in the type of box I want.
Now, if they offered a contractor drawer box with all of the basic tools in a rollable drawer kit… That’d be tempting.
fred
That’s just it. Most want the choice – not the dictate to take it with the price built into the bottom line.
In our cabinet shop and fabrication plant – some precision tools were kept in their cases – but practically everything else were stored in cabinets, drawers, shelves, bins, shadowboards and carts. In the Fabrication shop we had mostly Lista storage. In the Cabinet shop – it was a mix of shop made and Vidmar. Why would we have wanted to pay extra for cases of any sort? When tools came into those shops in blow-molded cases the cases just got tossed out with the rubbish. A Packout case would just be expensive rubbish,
In our remodeling business we transported tools more often in not in vans that had been upfitted (we used Dejana) for storage. If a case fit into that scheme, we might keep it – but paying for a case was not worth a premium to us for all tools.
In our plumbing business they guys were a bit slobby – and the idea of using pails for tool storage seemed ingrained in company culture. With some of the newer Force Logic tool sets – I recently noticed that the tools seem to be still in their cases. So maybe in that business for M12 and M18 plumbing tools the guys might come around to the idea of accepting a Packout storage solution if it came with the tool purchase.
Contrasting all of that, the painting contractor that we used – and I still use personally – has most everything neatly stored in systainers to go along with his Festool sanders.
Overall, I agree with the thesis that the one-size-fits-all approach would not be popular, and many would balk at an added cost for including upgraded toolboxes in the price of a new tool.
Al
Yeah, I can’t bring all my kit every time…or ever. So i grab a tool bag, dump in the required power tools, batteries with covers, and a charger. Canvas bucket for loose stuff.
Sometimes i envy the folks with a rolling garage of tools.
But, I’m also glad I have a backpack with small minimal kit bags when I had to walk up five floors this morning.
Nathan
Indeed I only diy but I’ve gotten to using a bag and picking out the items I need plus a few extra. Maybe 2 bags on occasion
Nathan
Oh typing that as someone that doesn’t have any. But my Bosch jugsaw came in box that I do keep blades in. Same with my nailers and their nails
MM
Many American power tools DID come with boxes, the problem is that people didn’t use them for whatever reason. My corded Super Sawzall came in a metal box with a carrying handle. I accumulated a large pile of black plastic boxes that many Dewalt tools–corded & cordless–came with. Dewalt seems to have switched to cloth bags instead.
Personally, I rarely used these boxes, for a variety of potential reasons:
1) The box didn’t have any room for vital accessories
2) The box took up too much room
3) The box was crappy quality
The cloth bags are an interesting trade-off. On the one hand they don’t protect the tools as well as a hard box did. On the other hand, they’re generally useful for other things. I’ve thrown out a whole bunch of unwanted hard plastic boxes. I haven’t thrown out a single cloth bag, those always have uses.
Jared
Another nice thing about the bags is that they conform to the space easier. E.g. you can fit a lot more tools in the back seat of your truck if they’re each in a separate cloth bag than you can if they’re all in hard-sided boxes.
I still use a few of old power tool boxes as parts organizers. It seems to me that it would drive me nuts if I had my power tools in them because I’d have to take the box off the shelf, place it on some surface to remove the tool and then close the box and put it back on the shelf to reclaim my workspace.
I realize that’s a minor annoyance, but it’s a lot easier to just reach into a drawer and pull out a tool.
Bob
My Sawzall from the early ’90s is still kept in its original metal tool box along with a huge assortment of blades. It’s a quality box and practical – not too big and holds everything that’s needed with it. It travelled to many job sites working summers remodeling houses and held up great.
I had a Milwaukee 12V drill of the same vintage. The drill is long gone, but the metal tool box it came with is still in use. It was also practical holding the drill, charger, both batteries and room for a drill bit set, driver bits, a hole saw and some other miscellaneous things. It also got dragged to many job sites.
MM
I liked that Sawzall box for the exact reasons you mentioned. It wasn’t too big but it had enough room in there for plenty of blades. I’d still be using it today if it hadn’t been stolen. I never owned one of those drills personally but when I was in university I borrowed one from my departmental ‘tool crib’ many times. They had a lot of other tools that likewise had metal boxes: Porter-Cable belt sanders and planers, Skil 77’s, etc.
If you ask me, it *was* common to find power tools bundled with boxes here in the US. I don’t think it’s a question of “will the US start doing this”. I think it’s a question of “why did they stop”.
JR Ramos
It was super common. There were always complaints with every type of case (metal lids twisting or spot welds on hinges letting go, blow mold latches or uni-hinges splitting away, other plastic cracks and breaks, etc, etc). Compounding the unhappiness was the general unavailability of replacement cases or aftermarket solutions. I think it was Makita that tried to improve things with pinned hinges and replaceable red latches on their 2nd generation plastic cases, and that wasn’t great either, but better. DeWalt’s early hard plastic cases cracked and broke far too easily. But I think between all that and a couple rounds of inflation and cost-driving, they all started to give way to cloth bags (not well received at first and seen as “cheapening” the value by many customers) and then to the majority being totally bare-tool.
I have a fantastic old metal box for a Porter Cable 690, really smartly designed with lots of room for a fence, wrenches and collets, plenty of bits. It’s still much appreciated and used today (bought that in 1998 or so). Those Sawzall metal cases were great, too…Porter Cable and DeWalt also had great metal ones very similar.
My favorite of all is a Milwuakee box that I think was for a 1/2″ Magnum electric drill, can’t remember now. But it’s a chunky short tall rectangular box with a great metal lift-out tray. Tons of room for a drill and lots of accessories just like a regular toolbox except a better shape. Not sure I ever saw another aftermarket box like it but I would buy another in a heartbeat and use it today. That was probably from around 1993 and metal cases were starting to get phased out for most tools then.
Interesting to look back on that evolution. At some point storage and replacement options became an afterthought and real frustration…the few companies that really gave it some thought and made good solutions seemed to get a lot of praise just for that from our customers but we sure tried to help a lot of frustrated ones figure something out where others fell short. Although everything is plastic these days we sure do have a plethora of various storage and organizational solutions today, and that’s great (and yet there are still lots of holes that we have to live with or creatively figure out). I think now it’s just an added hassle/cost for manufacturers and many don’t want to deal with it, and then on the customer end nobody wants to pay more than half of bottom dollar, either.
I find bags really useful but it’s irritating how the quality in them has dropped in the last, oh, 5-6 years or so. Even the “heavy duty” ones now are pretty mediocre compared to what used to be standard (fabric and material choices, thread quality and stitching, webbing especially, and often construction methods and/or QC of that). I have a Makita bag that came with a 5″ grinder I got about 23 years ago and it’s so superior to any bag I’ve seen in the last decade, save for a few.
fred
I recall a time when fiberboard toolboxes could be found in many hardware stores and industrial supply houses. The had luggage-style handles, metal corner protectors and came in a variety of sizes. I still keep my PC 505 sander in one that fits it like a glove. When the use of plastic took off – they seemed to fade out. But they still seem to be made – looks like mostly for transport cases:
https://www.fibrecase.com/toolcases.html
Jared
I don’t see the problem with selling tools without boxes when the boxes are readily-available. However, custom-molded or foam inserts for specific toolboxes would be cool.
It’s the sort of thing that is expensive or time-consuming to do as a one-off though. While it would be nice if the manufacturers offered that as a separate accessory, you can see how it might easily get out of hand when you consider how many different toolboxes and tool combos might be in-play.
You could just design each insert so that one tool fit per box, but then wouldn’t everyone complain about the wasted space?
Saulac
I think it definitely will be the next wave for the US market. Once the modular tool box market is saturated. And once the power tools + accessories + hardware/fasteners are offered as a single solution. Like the Hilti model. Tools would come in cases with sufficient space for accessories and consumables.
Ken
I’ve noticed that on Amazon’s German website that many (most?) Bosch tools are listed as both “in box” and “in L-Boxx”. For example, the sander that you posted above (GEX 18V) is offered in the same listing as either “in box” for $135 USD or “in L-Boxx” for $153 USD. The L-Boxx version also includes a custom plastic insert. So that’s $18 extra for the L-Boxx and custom insert.
The reasons you gave in the post for NOT including boxes make sense to me. But I’m curious why these reasons don’t seem to hold in the Euro market. I’m also curious if the probable release of Bosch’s new storage system in the US market might also introduce the option of purchasing tools in the new boxes with custom inserts.
JR Ramos
I think it’s tradition and expectations. I can’t speak for the Euro market but for Bosch US, they botched up an awful lot of product descriptions in recent years regarding cases/boxes. Many were shown as “case included” but in fact the US products were not (even on some sold as bare tools, it showed a case included). Since administratively Bosch US seems a little bit of a mess, I suspect it was oversight and copy-pasting information, but then that gets mirrored and regurgitated on every placard and retail website page. I think they’ve cleaned up most of that now. I don’t browse overseas retailers much at all but do remember seeing some Amazon listings that showed a case and I wondered if that was accurate or not. It used to be expected here in the US that a case would be provided but tradition died pretty quickly here….it’s interesting how the different markets are catered to, though. Offhand, I wonder if there’s some cultural differences in those expectations, too…Americans tend to embrace the “quick & dirty” and “lowest cost to get the job done” sometimes to extremes, while a lot of my experience and observations of various trades and hobbies in Europe-general seem to lean toward slower and methodical with an emphasis on quality results…and oddly a nice case might fit very well into that approach. Probably oversimplifying and there are lots of contrary examples, too.
mizzourob
I suspect another issue is that these toolboxes are not made near where the tools are made so that too would add to the supply chain costs for packaging the tools with containers.
Masterforce at Menards seemingly experimented with this for about a year back in 2021 +/- with several ‘kits’ that were eventually clearanced out.
Stuart
That’s definitely also a hinderance.
Champs
Talking about Milwaukee, because that is what I know, the OMT bundle could be something simple like an insert to drop in the bottom of a Packout “ammo can,” or more elaborately as a complement of the compact organizer with a foam insert that has slots for the tool and standard Packout accessory cases.
I don’t know everything about scale, but those one-off parts strike me as more economical than the blow molded cases that still seem to ship with corded tools smaller than a table saw.
aaron+s
I use red and green tools but boxes from the yellow brand. If they’d done bundles 10 years ago it might have got me but now it’s just something I have to ignore.
JoeM
Y’know what I’d Like to see? A Voucher System. Use it or not, up to you. Buy a DeWALT tool, voucher for the appropriate sized TSTAK or ToughSystem box required. Doesn’t have to be the price of the whole box, maybe 20% off at most? But when cashing in that voucher, the cheap moulded insert to hold the tool in the correct orientation to fit the box is included. When the voucher gets activated, your tool you’ve bought is already Registered with the company, they obviously know your address at this point. Scan with the inventory app on your phone, pick the storage system you’re using, it gets mailed to you free, and you’ve already bought the box from the participating store for the discounted price. Day, maybe a week, later? Assemble, latch on, and go. Not using the box type from the company? Fine. Scan the Insert code to get the generic insert for the tools, put it in your tool inventory as “Other” for the storage box. So you like Packout, StackTech, ToughSystem, TSTAK, or any of the other systems? Fine. They’ll at least help with organization. This is literally the least they could do here.
Just a simple set of QR codes. Once scanned by the owner, takes it out of the DeWALT database so it can’t be reused a thousand times. If it wears out? Stamped part number on the actual tray. Maybe this one you have to pay a minimal fee, and shipping this time. Again, not a huge impact. Does that take up space? Well, they’re just making as many as get scanned. Change the total materials by what? 2%? Less space on store shelves, more shipped from manufacturer. The Voucher System could work!
s
i want to say someone tried this in the early 2000’s. maybe it was the first edition of packout.
it failed miserably.
turns out people prefer to buy things the way they want them equipped, and adding extra steps to the process turns a lot of people off.
Scott K
A lot of reasonable hurdles are mentioned in previous comments. I think the number of possible combos makes this very difficult. You will end up paying more for boxes that may not meet your needs. If you bundle tools with small boxes that hold individual tools you end up with a large collection of small boxes that may not make sense to connect together. If you bundle tools with boxes that have room for other tools, you may end up with several minimally filled larger boxes.
I think it would be an interesting model to offer a small discount on purchasing a box that meets an individual’s specific needs.
Rzorrok
How about just selling the tool in a foam insert that happens to fit in a case that’s compatible with the company’s existing packaging system. The tool needs packaging in the box anyway. It would encourage buyers to buy your packing system or could be discarded as it costs nearly nothing to include.
s
my issue with tools-and-containers is right in the lead image.
that’s great for someone that needs only two batteries of two drastically different capacities, a charger, impact driver, and a small storage area for bits. but how many people need only that? very few.
and there’s also a significant waste of space within the container. the container could easily fit a drill as well, but that’s no longer an option with the foam.
MatW
How hard/expensive would it be for manufacturers to just add the cleats or clips to the boxes that come with the tool kit. For example when you buy a milwaukee fuel kit it comes in a hard plastic case already, how convenient would it be if that case had the cleats to slide it ontop of your packout.
Stuart
Extremely difficult. Kit boxes are built completely differently from ToughSystem or Packout boxes.
Jronman
If not here then why is it common in Europe? It is more common to find something in modular storage than not across the pond. If you don’t need the modular storage you can at least sell it to someone who needs it. It is harder in my opinion to sell a blow molded case or tool bag than it is a Systainer or Packout box.
Stuart
Just the way it is.
A while back I asked a tool brand why they promoted x-frame levels in Europe and box-frame in the USA. They said something like “Americans prefer bigger levels.”
Jody
Still disappointed in Bosch north America for ending that… Among countless other things..
The Bosch ROS65VCL lives in its large lboxx. Is there wasted space, yes. Its decently protected with custom cutouts and everything is secure though. I dont mind if the cordless sander takes up more space in a case vs bags.
Michael F
All the reasons you’ve mentioned to NOT sell tools bundled with a toolbox definitely make sense. However, I’d like to point out that the reason Festool purported to begin selling their tools in Systainers was to reduce waste. They claimed that by shipping the tool in the box that would be used to store the tool by the end user that they reduced packaging material, etc. I wonder if that was actually true or just a marketing spin.
Personally, I like the idea of every tool having a box, but only if the boxes are part of an interlocking system. Blow molded cases are useless to me and I usually end up putting them in my storage unit until I sell the tool. As many others have mentioned, more support for foam inserts and other organization bits from the manufacturer would be a great compromise. Milwaukee is on the right track with their small Packout organizers that have bits and accessories in them.
aaron+s
I subscribe to the “family versus coworkers” organizational philosophies. Does it live with its family? That’s a box of hammers. Does it live with its coworkers? That’s putting a hammer in my flooring box, a second hammer in my drywall box, a third hammer in my framing box.
I’ve always found these pre-made bins tri for an awkward middle ground that doesn’t work for either strategy. Like especially with cordless tools. Am I putting two batteries kitted with each tool? That’s a lot of micromanaging batteries and checking each bin for charge when I load or unload. So no, batteries live with their families in the battery bin. Like most readers on this site I have drills and impacts aplenty, so those can pretty much stay with their coworkers and get tossed around. Really the only place where he inserts make sense to me is on specialty tools or on systems where I only have one tool and it makes sense to keep the batteries together.
Michael F
I’ve never heard this referred to as “family versus coworkers” but I really like it. I agree that putting batteries in every function-oriented (coworkers) kit is difficult to micro-manage. The way that I solve this, when I make a function-oriented box, is to keep the batteries in a “family” box that only has batteries and a charger. That way I know that if I need to do a specific task, I grab one function-oriented coworkers box, lock it on top of the batteries family box, and I’m good to go.
Farkleberry
Nice analogy, but I think it depends on application.
Most projects require more than one, often several power tools, thus the appeal of a single battery platform.
Many rough carpentry tasks, for example, can be performed with a single rolling duffel bag filled with a charger and several different sized batteries, a medium drill, impact driver, circ saw, recip saw and OMT. The bag will also hold small organizers for impact, twist and paddle drill bits, and saw blades, rip guide, etc.
Another bag can hold your measuring, marking, hand tools, etc. Another bag for clamps, demo hand tools, etc.
This can be duplicated with one or more modular stacks. The boxes are larger but more protected. Boxes are easier to wheel over flat surfaces long distances, but more cumbersome to load into truck cabs, etc. Easier to stack vertically, etc.
If you’re doing specialized work repeatedly, but spread out in different locations, time savings from a “coworker” box or bag can be substantial, versus toting and accessing multiple storage areas.
Delicate, expensive, precise, etc. tools with specialized accessories, or those often used by themselves are probably best served by a dedicated co-worker setup.
If you’re working from a home workshop and do lots of different things, either method can work, for both specialized and general use tools.
-“Family” makes it easier to remember where things go/are.
-“Coworker” makes for faster access and workflow.
Farkleberry
I also imagine your talking about a static, rather than mobile situation.
How many hammers, drills, saws, etc., etc., are you taking to work area?
Or do you pick out which hammer, etc., accessories, and fasteners you need, then take to work? You only have two hands, so why not put all the tools you need for the job in a bag, tote, box or bucket?
If you’re only doing infrequent projects around house, and have limited storage space, this is a good way to go. Pull tools and consumables from “families” into a carrier and go.
If you’re a pro doing this all day, time is money and loading up for a half hour+ every day, only to realize left X, Y or Z with their family sucks big time. If you do certain tasks regularly, amd can afford duplicate tools and storage, have a carrier ready to go for each.
Shane
Milwaukee doesn’t do it mostly because of cost. They pay Keter a hefty royalty for every packout product sold.
Stuart
Most brands don’t manufacturer their own tool boxes. Payment for manufacturing services is not the same thing as a royalty.
Wayne R.
Would there be a business opportunity to 3D print custom box innards to suit various box choices, various tool combos and storage options? Tool makers could provide the shape files for their tools, box makers the shape files of their boxes, and a customer could drag & drop things to fit their desires. Could be for tools, equipment, photo/video, medical, weapons, on & on.
The old blow-molded cases did a pretty good job of protecting tools and in a lot of cases were somewhat stackable, but they almost never had room for accoutrement.
Doresoom
Jonah Pope has done exactly that with his Packout inserts: https://jonahpope.gumroad.com/
(I’m not affiliated in any way, he’s just the only one I’ve seen with such an extensive library of well-designed inserts.)
Michael F
I think this would be really cool, especially for smaller boxes (like the half-size Packout organizers). Imagine being able to grab an STL file from Milwaukee for different size organizers, bit holders, or multi-tool/recip blade holders. I don’t think we’d ever see it happen, but it could definitely work for the small stuff. You’d need a really large printer for tool inserts.
Farkleberry
Why not use Kaizen foam? Easy to custom design and cut yourself, and lighter and more protective than rigid plastic or maybe even TPE.
The trick and genius with these organizers is to leave enough foam, etc. for protection, and take out enough for space efficiency while predicting what shape and size voids will fit the right type and amount accessories.
Farmerguy
Maybe we can go one step further and uncouple batteries, chargers, and tools. Would simplify the number of SKUs on store shelves, not have wasted items, and allow more unique product specials while easing into higher grade choices. I am sure some marketing guru sees obfuscation of the tool buying algorithm as a profit center. Pat Homeowner probably would complain that they paid $xxx for a tool and can’t use it without battery or charger, but anyone else probably wants choice.
fred
Most new tools seem to come either as bare tool or as kits with battery and charger. Some manufacturers also offer battery/charger starter kits. So. we probably have quite a few mix and match choices. More would be necessary but might add additional complications for the retailers and confusion for some customers (the guys who order a bare tool and complain about the lack of battery ??)
When I ordered my first new car in the 1960’s the dealer had pages of options (from engines choices to accessories and trim) that I had to go through with codes for almost every item, codes for supposedly popular bundles of items, and list of what would work or not work with what. That was so they could advertise a low price for some base model car. It was almost as the “what no-battery?” complaint – and the joke was that you needed to specify some code like JXQA1458xx if you wanted an engine. When the switch came to more standardized option packages being built into specific car models many complained about what they thought was a lack of choice and need to step up to a higher cost model perhaps to just get one or two extra features bundled with others that they did not want.
Stuart
That’s a good idea that doesn’t seem to work well.
Harbor Freight tried it. They discontinued Hercules kits and moved to a la carte purchasing with bundle discounts. They’ve since moved back to offering their most popular tools in boxed kits. They also started offering “free with purchase” promos similar to what’s been popular at Home Depot and Lowe’s.
It’s very difficult for companies to break from established practices and user expectations.
Not all power tools are available in kit format. When they are, the kits likely sell well enough to justify the separate SKU. I’m sure there are many tools where kits vastly out-sell the tool-only SKUs.
JR Ramos
I guess it depends on the brand but I think we’ve already decoupled a lot, and that was after some clamoring from trade/industrial customers in the late 90s/early 2000s, and a lot of it was heralded by the quick evolution of cordless tools.
If a retailer is to be well-stocked to serve customers’ needs, then this actually can compound the sku/shelf/purchasing situation, but it makes sense in so many ways. These days with such emphasis on maximizing profit-per-foot and lean inventory, etc., there are few who would really embrace the idea even if their customers wanted it badly.
This is fantastic for professional users, but yes, absolutely, with all the joe homeowners and sally crafters, you do see ridiculous amounts of clueless/uninformed complaints about no battery or whatever. I don’t think we should let that drive the industry (maybe ok for craft-focused companies on the lower tier of things?) but we apparently do. This may just be driven by the consolidation and general dumbing-down of the market, where pro and diy have been so intermixed with the evolution of big box stores and now online platforms. I might venture a guess that hobbyists and diy’ers are the lion’s share of the market these days, though and/or small time handymen and contractors that have a similar approach in purchasing decisions.
The only problem with a total a’ la carte approach is that it requires either or both that the customer and the seller spend some time to educate and familiarize and communicate. A great many are just to impatient or lazy to take that time even if it benefits them.
JR Ramos
A random but related take on this is how we used to see tools in a complete kit format, more or less. Cost cutting drove some of that away. Take something like rip fences for circular saws (and jig saws to a lesser extent) – used to be standard to get those with the tools but what a cluster that became over time when manufacturers stopped including them and sometimes even stopped having them available later, to say nothing of not providing simple freaking dimensions so that customers or salespeople could find a fence bar that would work with a given tool. It all works with manufacturers support things fully but way too few actually do anymore…greatly exacerbated by overseas manufacturing and batch production limitations (and we see those difficulties in many many industries/categories now…possibly a fault of the way we embraced the automotive approach to things).
eddiesky
I just want a storage box, by DeWalt, for their pneumatic flooring nailer (when we gonna see a cordless of that, btw?). I will continue to post this, whenever cases, storage or packouts are discussed because, who makes a tool but nothing to store it in when not in use?? (apparently, DeWalt. So come on Milwaukee, beat them at their game by making a flooring nailer, with storage case, and FUEL cordless!)
Harrison
As I said on the other post, clearly this isn’t going to work for cheap drill kits and affordable bare tools.
The obvious place to start would be more expensive tools that are dependent on a system of accessories, Track saws being a great example. You need to not only protect the precision base of the saw, but store clamps, a rail square, extra anti-splinter rubber, an alternative blade, etc. You already see this from Milwaukee, Festool, Makita, and every other brand that sells a track saw.
Milwaukee is now packaging their mechanics handtools in the thin Packout containers. It’s not the most efficient use of space, but Packout is still a significantly improved experience vs your standard blow mold socket set, and the sets seem to be moving at the home stores.
It’s really hard to imagine Milwaukee moving backwards on this now that they have started. I see their expensive plumbing tools like PEX expanders and Pro Press tools following suit, and every other ‘system’ tool in the $400+ range.
Stuart
With respect to Milwaukee’s standard vs Packout-compatible mechanics tool sets, I have found the standard cases and trays to be better for tool drawer storage. They are not at all like the blow-molded sets you typically get with socket sets. I like that there’s always the option to buy Packout-compatible trays later.
Most tool brands will follow user demands where practical.
CMF
I have an old (spline drive, before SDS) Hitachi 1 9/16″ rotary hammer that came in a nice, solid metal box.
Being that it is a specific job tool and the box happen to be the right size for ME, I keep the 5 bits and 3 chisels, plus the grease and rubber dust boots, all in the box…because it fits. I do have a 24″ bit that does not fit and I carry on the side.
This box happens to carry what I have just right, but if I had more bits, or core bits or other accessories, I would not have room. This is on of those exceptions that works…minus the 24″ bit.
But in general, the way I want my tools + accessories, in a box, varies a lot depending on the tool, and will vary from tool to tool, and even more so between everyone posting on ToolGuyd. It would be next to impossible to satisfy…even a third of tool buyers.
I am a dual citizen Euro, but never lived there. I don’t understand how and why this is successful in Europe and globally.
Maybe they buy a tool and conform to the limitations of the storage box. I personally like to have my tools conform to my needs, so some tools a small flat box, some bi, some that have limited accessories will be all together. Other items there are too many blades (jigsaw) or attachments or bits; they must be in a separate box. I next to never carry a charger, almost always have more than 3-5 batteries.
To each their own.
Archer
I think including boxes makes more sense for Festool given their use case, their core demographic are cabinet and furniture shops using their tools in a fixed location where space isn’t that big of a concern and they can be stored in their boxes on a shelf and only pulled out when they need to be used, which in the case of a lot of Festool stuff might only be once or twice a week as well. (Especially for low-volume custom shops or the many affluent hobbyists buying them.) It’s a very different calculus for the more mainstream tool brands that cater more to people who need to cram them into the back seat or side box of a truck and then carry everything onto the site every day, if every tool had its own box those guys would end up with packout stacks taller than they are.
fred
That may have some influence on the Europe versus USA difference in preferences. I recall seeing way more vans in Europe than pickup trucks.
al
Black friday 2020 milwaukee offered the gen 3 impact driver, 2 3.0 ho batteries and charger in a packout box (48-22-8424) for $179. Lets say best deal possible for these items would be $60 for the batteries (although really its more because they are high capacity), and $100 for the tool (or $70 for the tool and $40 for the packout). I needed an impact driver, i really wanted the h0 3.0s and the packout i wasnt invested in. I never would have thought about it were it not for the packout. In fact, now i am knee deep in packout because of that first purchase.
I think there are pros and cons. some users wont use the modular box at all and sometimes users (like me) never used it and started because of this purchase. The only thing is that companies cant raise the prices (as Stuart said), because otherwise, it will only cater to the ones who want it exactly like that. This would highly limit the customers for this product. If companies are willing to give a way a box (or discount it significantly), i think it could be benedificial. but i dont think it will make a tremendous difference.