YouTube loves peppering my feed with completely me unrelated Shorts, and so I tend to pay more attention to the ones that are tool or equipment related.
In this one, a YouTuber says that SawStop saved their finger from being cut off.
And, it does.
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They use a push stick, and everything goes smoothly. I was expecting a kickback event or similar.
No…
They removed the guard and then reach over the powered and exposed blade in an attempt to grab the cut work with their opposite hand.
Why not use the push stick? Turn the saw blade off first? Did the guard have to be removed for this?
Luckily they’re out just a blade and brake cartridge.
This was an avoidable human error.
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Not to mince words, I watched the video and thought “well, that was dumb.” But you know what? I do all kinds of dumb things too sometimes, usually by accident or unintentionally.
I don’t know this woodworker, but they can be any of us.
This is my question. Would this woodworker have demonstrated greater caution if they didn’t have a SawStop with flesh detection and active injury mitigation technology? Or would this have resulted in a disastrous life-changing injury?
The government is deciding on whether they will be creating a safety standard that would essentially require table saws to have similar safety tech. The comment window closes in one week.
Read More: We’re Much Closer to SawStop-Like Table Saw Regulations – Update
A common critical opinion is that SawStop safety tech promotes unsafe behavior. But the fact is that unsafe practices have existed for a long time and will continue to exist.
The woodworker in the video must be happy he’s not a finger or two short – or worse – due to a momentary lapse in judgement.
There’s also a chance that the video was staged as rage-bait, but I like to give folks the benefit of the doubt these days.
Should every new table saw offer the same protections?
Here’s the video:
Bob+Hinden
Wow, interesting video. It look like he was trying to put his finger between the blade and riving knife? Or he forgot there was a spinning saw blade. He is lucky it wasn’t worse.
I own a SawStop PCS. I don’t do things that are unsafe because it is a SawStop. That would require some conscious thought like: I am doing to use my finger to push something out of the way that I know is dangerouous and but do it because the saw will protect me. In my view, people do things like what was shown in the video by doing something without thinking.
In this case, he wasn’t thinking at all. Just doing….
Scott K
I watched this a few times trying to figure out the goal here. I think I had the same thought- he must’ve forgotten there was a spinning blade…I can’t imagine wanting to put my fingers there unless the saw is unplugged.
Eric
The goal was to trip the system and get views. It looks like this guy has had one or two shorts go viral and get tons of views, but most of them hardly get any views at all. He’s just chasing that next viral video.
Munklepunk
Even if you were willing to do it, it’s still $85 a cartridge. That alone would make me be extra careful.
Scott K
That plus the down time unless you keep an extra cartridge and blade on hand. I guess it’s not a big expense if you are already buying a SawStop.
eddie sky
Ah but if he gets $20/per 1000views… he made $20,000 so far. Which is what, 5 PCS sawstops?
Doresoom
No one is making nearly that much on YouTube long form videos, let alone YouTubs Shorts.
MFC
It’s possible that it’s intentional, but I am erring on the side of he was moving quickly, too many coffees and his brain didn’t sound the alarms.
I’ve done it. He has a lot of videos on making stuff so I can see this being just another B-role that happened to catch the injury.
Even with the knowledge that the sawstop does what it says it does, I can’t imagine moving with that much fluidity into a spinning blade on purpose. Our bodies fight to keep us from doing that sort of thing.
BigTimeTommy
Could be intentional. Social media “people” do a lot of dumb crap on purpose. The Instagram algorithms feed me a constant stream of construction related content and it’s mostly people doing things wrong. When they get called out in the comments they respond with this same nonsense “😂😂😂😂😂😂 Don’t care it gets views😂😂😂😂😂” Idiocracy is reality.
Stuart
Rage bait.
Ken
I saw this a while back and am highly suspicious that this “accident” was deliberately staged for clicks and monetization. Disregarding the stupidity of grabbing an offcut so close to the blade, why is there a cameraman filing the action in a close-up?
Call me cynical, but I don’t believe much on YouTube these days. The monetization system that has been set up strongly encourages deception and other bad behavior.
George
I’d agree. The fact that the camera just stayed on him, didn’t miss a beat, and even zoomed out or the camera man backed away is a dead giveaway to me. What kind of sociopath would witness that and just say “eh, keep rolling”?
MM
I honestly feel similar. A few things that stuck out to me:
1) Why is this being filmed at all? Is this part of some bigger project? If it’s part of some other project, why aren’t they talking about whatever that project was?
2) Why does the cameraman not react when the operator started reaching towards the blade? I think I’d be freaking out if I saw that. But even if given the benefit of the doubt, the cameraman wasn’t aware of the risk, etc, then that brings me to my next point:
3) For all the cameraman knows, his friend or employer just got his fingers caught in the saw blade. Why is he not panicking, asking if his friend is OK, at least until he realizes there was no major harm?
ChuckMcB
I must agree, it does look staged – on the other hand (excuse the pun) – I would rather eat a Tide pod than sticking my fingers into a spinning saw blade. Even with a 100% safety record – “what if it doesn’t work THIS time?”
Clickbait could be a valuable thing, and there are probably always a bunch of idiots who will do absolutely anything for attention, especially while being paid handsomely. But still, there are probably not a lot of said bunch who would touch a live wire just to see if the GFCI is working as advertised. I think a sharp, spinning steel blade is even more fearsome…
Jared P
For sure – no way I’m intentionally touching a spinning blade regardless of the safety mechanisms. You notice that when the inventor did his demo with his real hand, he dipped it in water first. And all those hotdogs in the tests are glistening with moisture. In real-life circumstances, hands are dry and covered with sawdust so it could take a few milliseconds longer for the saw to activate and even if you don’t lose a finger, you could easily lose a significant bit of flesh.
bg100
Here’s a small sample, just based on my personal contacts who use table saws regularly:
Serious finger injuries: 2
Serious finger injuries, but saved by the Sawstop: 12
I admit, I am a relatively small sample size, but breaking it down I can see that the Saw stop definitely and directly leads to complacency.
My old shop teacher (and his shop teacher) absolutely love the Sawstop in classrooms. Kids are dumb. One of those finger injuries I referenced above happened in class in high school. No saw stop, lots of blood.
But neither shop teacher will buy a Sawstop for themselves, because they use many, many tools that do not have that safety feature, and know they will come to rely on it, and miss it dreadfully when it’s absent. I trust their experiences with and without the Sawstop. I know I am at least a little more carefree when I use the shiny black and red cabinet saw at my brother’s shop.
People can buy it and use it all they want. But force me to use it? No thank you. I’d rather just be careful. Just like with my bandsaws, circular saws, jigsaws, recip saws, router and router table, rotozips…
ITCD
This is a legitimate problem. I wonder if researchers have put a name to it? I feel like they probably have. But it’s like that guy who liked to show off how strong the windows were in his high rise office until the structure that held the glass in place gave out one time.
But I am sure this is an actual phenomenon where things intended to be a backup for when the primary (common sense, instruction and technique, guarding) fails, ends up becoming leaned on as the primary.
Karlen
Too little information for your statistic.
What is your base user group for each? Experience of users on sawstop and non? Amount of time spent on sawstop and non?
Don’t get me wrong, sawstop tech is amazing, and yes, users of both sawstop and normal table Saws grow complacent over time. Ask any professional woodworker who has had an injury on any machine really. I think the real critical argument is that it is far easier to grow complacent faster with a sawstop than it is with a table saw without the safety features.
Saulac
What is the practicality of wood cutting w/o traditional blades, such laser or “dry” water jet? I know laser cutting thinner wood is nothing new. But how about something like a table saw, but with a powerful laser beam instead?
Stuart
I doubt that we’re going to see consumer products with lasers capable of cutting through 2″ or thicker hardwood.
MM
I don’t think lasers are the solution, I used to have quite a powerful one in my old machining business. We didn’t use it for wood for work purposes but of course everyone’s wife or girlfriend wanted a wooden plaque or sign or something so we certainly used it for that on the side. Lasers burn wood, fire is a constant risk and even when there is no ignition smoke is ever-present. It must be carefully controlled because if this smoke were to condense on the laser’s lens or mirrors those are now permanently ruined, because the laser instantly burns that gunk instead of reflecting off the mirror or passing through the lens. This is an expensive oopsie when it happens. I know from personal experience. As far as cutting goes that is also a problem for thicker materials as the laser beam is “hourglass shaped” with the point of focus right at the narrowest point of the hourglass. In other words, the kerf isn’t a narrow straight line like a metal saw, it’s that hourglass shape. For thin materials you cannot tell but for thick materials you never get a straight cut because of the shape of the beam. Nevermind the fact that lasers have hazards all their own: even a tiny little reflection going into your eye will instantly blind you. Thus the laser and the workpiece all need to be enclosed so there’s no possible way a beam reflection can get out.
Koko The Talking Ape
Re smoke, I wonder if a constant stream of an inert gas would prevent combustion, the way it prevents oxidization in MIG or TIG welding. The gas couldn’t be too cold, or it would create fog and block the laser.
Re the hourglass shape of the beam, could it be hourglass-shaped only in the plane of the cut, so the cut is clean? Or it could be tilted backwards in the cut, so that the first beam the workpiece sees is straight vertical. And perhaps the focus could scan up and down, so it works kind of like a bandsaw.
MM
Our laser had purge gas, we could set it to either shop air or run it off nitrogen. I didn’t noticed much of a difference with wood smoke with either option but the nitrogen was absolutely necessary for some plastics which would instantly ignite otherwise.
The “Hourglass” thing I mentioned is a power problem. Lasers inherently produce straight paralell beams which would make nice straight cuts. But that’s assuming you have a laser powerful enough to cut like that. That is how the large industrial lasers which cut steel, etc, work. Most laser engravers or the ones used by sign shops, hobbyists, etc, to cut wood get around the power problem by using a less powerful laser but then focusing the beam on the cut, just like you might have used a magnifying glass to burn a piece of wood as a kid. “Tilting the hourglass” doesn’t really help: it would present a straight edge, but the problem is that the laser doesn’t cut well except at the center of the “hourglass”, where the beam is focused. If it cut like a router bit, where every bit of the “hourglass” shape was cut away effectively by the laser that could work, but the hourglass shape defines the power of the beam.
Making the focus move up and down might work though now the process has become much slower (and it was already slow to begin with), and there’s added complexity to the machine.
Koko The Talking Ape
Thanks for your detailed response! I learned a lot.
SlowEng
I have considered buying a sawstop for my father who in his age is starting to get tremors in his hands. For most of us, including my dad, it would be hard to give up our tools and the ability to build things. Similar to having to give up our drivers license or pilot license some things are hard to realize it’s time to quit.
So maybe the sawstop will buy the family some piece of mind and him a little more time doing things he enjoys.
Chris
Sawstop was a great invention. But it’s expensive. Between the saws themselves and then the cartridges and a new blade every time the mechanism is tripped. (Yes, I understand it’s way cheaper than a trip to the ER, especially if you don’t have great health insurance)
But accidental tripping can occur, if the wood is wet or if you forget to disable the safety feature when cutting something you know is conductive. And then it adds unnecessary costs.
Recently new technology has come out from other brands that can stop and lower the blade without damaging it. But that’s stuff like Felder and the saw it’s on is something you’d only see in a high production cabinet shop. So that definitely isn’t cheap either.
I’m a proponent of the government stepping back from mandates and such. Just let people do their own thing. But I’m not sure how I feel about mandatory sawstop technology. If every manufacturer decided on their own to incorporate this technology that would be one thing. But for it to be a mandatory technology just changes everything.
I think in the near future we will see sawstop-esque technology in many more saws. From portable contractor saws all the way up to big cabinetry saws at a price that is easier to swallow. Especially if it’s that technology that doesn’t destroy the blade when activated.
Bob+Hinden
BTW regarding some of the comments.
There is no “cameraman”. Most YouTubers used a fixed camera on a tripod.
The film a lot of stuff and then later edit it into a video they can post on Youtube.
MM
Many youtubers do that, yes. But I don’t believe that’s what’s happening here. There’s even a minor flinch when the SawStop activates, which obviously wouldn’t happen with a tripod mounted camera. In my opinion there is obviously a human behind this camera. They just know what’s going to happen in advance so they don’t panic.
Stuart
Did you watch the video?
The camera is moving the entire time as if handheld.
Bob+Hinden
Yes, several times. Looking at it again, you are right, the movement was more than a tracking camera. My error.
Ken
I agree with your comment that most YouTubers use a fixed camera on a tripod. The fact that this guy wasn’t filming solo, and instead had someone deliberately zooming in on a shot of his hand near the blade, is just more reason to believe the guy was purposely monetizing a Saw Stop brake activation. And guess what: the ruse worked. I’ve now watched the video on two different occasions, inadvertently sending YouTube dollars his way both times. 42 million views.
Meanwhile, the honest woodworker enthusiast who carefully creates a video on table saw safety accrues a few hundred views.
LukeH
There is absolutely no scenario in which ‘saw stop’ safety tech should be mandatory. Sure, accidents happen, but it’s up to the individual if they want to pay for the extra safety. There are plenty of other things government should do, that’s actually part of their sworn duties, that would save far more people from injury or death, besides making tools prohibitively expensive. Sorry if this sounds too political, but it was a question about government regulation. 🙂
potato
Bring on the mandatory sawstop safety regs.
Anyone who doesn’t want it will undoubtedly have a glut of cheap tablesaws to purchase once people sell of theirs for something safer. They also still have all the freedom in the world to: turn off the safety mechanism, cross the road with your eyes closed, drive without insurance, buy a house in a flood or firezone, travel to russia. The world of disregarding safety and/or regulations can still be your oyster.
Koko The Talking Ape
I agree. Leave the mechanism on by default, and let people disable it if they want. People are safer and “freedom” is preserved. 🙂
Koko The Talking Ape
“There are plenty of other things government should do… that would save far more people from injury or death…”
I agree. The government could, for instance, ban tobacco products entirely. That would save about half a million deaths per year (painful, slow, agonizing deaths), and spare millions of people from an addiction that drains their wallets and makes them slaves to corporations.
Why don’t they? Because our government is in the pocket of corporations too.
But sometimes that’s okay. If they mandate some kind of SawStop-like tech in table saws now, it’s only because the patents are expired and the feature won’t cost the manufacturers too much. They could have mandated it decades ago, and saved countless maimings, amputations, pain, disability, etc. But it would have cost the corporations $.
Jared P
Whether this was a real accident or staged (I lean heavily to the staged side of the fence), the guy is an idiot either way. And I say this as a sawstop owner who is also an idiot – I have a keen sense of recognizing my people.
I would never consciously trust my saw’s brake to save me. I’ve noticed too many times that when my hands are dry and dusty, I can touch the stopped blade without the “I detect a finger” light going off. So it’s not gonna activate the brake until it finds fresh meat, and that may be too late. Security and safety are all about layering, and the brake is just another layer.
Nate
Good on ya for posting this. I don’t have a SawStop. I want one. I have a Jet hybrid saw. I am extremely careful with my current saw, but I also am very much considering my own “idiot” idiot factor as a good reason to get a SawStop.
Some like to say the tech makes for complacency, but it’s usually folks who are tired and ready to be done for the day and make “one last cut” who get hurt. It only takes being complacent once to get hurt.
Nathan
Marketing vid or a bait vid for saw stop. I bet they even paid for it.
Or it wouldn’t surprise me if they did. Like hey here’s a free saw and some blades…. But will you do this in a video.
Mike McFalls
I have no desire to weigh in on the staged or staged debate, but I will say this- if staged that’s one hell of a risk to take for a video. God forbid something that happened and the break hadn’t worked.
s
it seems this ‘mandatory safety’ idea is in the same vein as all the recent autonomous vehicle tech that’s been rushing to market in the last few years.
while i agree that tech in vehicles or power tools can absolutely save lives, history also teaches us that many people also begin to rely on and expect the existence of the system that offers to save them by allowing the system to save them instead of not subjecting themselves to the situation. airbags in cars are great technology, but it’s a heck of a lot better to never need them!
what i’m slightly disappointed in is the lack of an active discussion of other tools that can be so much better suited for the task.
in the video example, can anyone explain why a chop saw or band saw weren’t used for the task instead? either are arguably safer tools to use for such small cuts he was making in such tiny stock, and either also inherently guard the blade better than tables saws do. i know this site is dedicated to the love of all tools, but at some point, we all must recognize that no tool is the ultimate tool that every shop must have, each tool has a purpose, and using a tool outside it’s original purpose carries increased risk.
we can utilize all the technology in the world to make for a safer scorpion stinger, but the reality is the venom is still toxic. the first and best solution to not getting stung by a scorpion is to not subject oneself to scorpions.
but i must admit, i absolutely despise table saws. i know of too many close calls and injuries with them, all mostly having to do with inverting the tool and exposing a large sharp flywheel of a blade. i absolutely refuse to use, or even own a table saw.
in this age where nearly every brand now has a track saw option, why do table saws even need to exist?
personally, i’m not by any means a hardcore woodworker, but i’ve never needed more than a circular saw or chop saw for all of my projects, from ripping down 4’x8′ sheets to trim work.
i’m not saying that accidents can’t happen with other tools, but table saws generally carry more risks due to the intertia of the blade combined with the exposed nature of the cutting edge. other tools tend to cover the blade better, and are many times more controllable, which further limit personal injury risk.
while i support the concept of sawstop tech, i guess i just can’t support the tool it’s used on, as so many other safer options can exist, but it seems most people’s stubbornness prevents them from using those options.
Jared P
> in the video example, can anyone explain why a chop saw or band saw weren’t used for the task instead?
Those are not as good for the cut in the video. Chop saws aren’t as accurate when ripping, especially small pieces that aren’t going to have a lot of material to register against the fence. Presumably this guy’s intention was to slice the piece into many of the same size, and a chop saw just isn’t going to give a comparably good result.
The bandsaw is doable, but the blades have too much drift for glueup-ready cuts right off the blade. It’s very very difficult to dial in and tune a bandsaw to get results anywhere near as good as what you get on a table saw. Maybe other people can do it, but I’ve never been able to.
> in this age where nearly every brand now has a track saw option, why do table saws even need to exist?
Track saws are great for breaking down plywood. But the tracks slip and flex and it’s easy to get a little bit off when positioning them for the cut, so again, they can’t give the near perfect results you get from a good table saw. They also can’t do dados as accurately or conveniently as a table saw, and although I haven’t tried it, I suspect the power and blade size difference would make track saws unusable when cutting thick hardwood. They also aren’t very good when cutting pieces narrower than the track itself.
I own a band saw, chop saw, and track saw and I would 100% go to the table saw for the cut in the video (and many, many others). But I’d be using my grrripper rather than the push stick for a cut this narrow, and obviously I hope I wouldn’t absentmindedly stick my finger on the blade for no reason.
Nate
I have a track saw, bandsaw, and tablesaw. I agree, the tablesaw (with grrripper style block is the best for this rip.
That said, I first acquired the tracksaw, then the bandsaw. No tracksaw that I am aware of can use a dado stack. However, I have used my router with the track for routing dados. I’ve liked that setup and it does work fairly well.
The biggest thing the tablesaw brings is easy repeatability. Duplicating rips on a tracksaw takes careful measurement and track placement. It becomes really difficult when you are trying to make thin rips.
AC
My father uses one of our large city’s park district wood shops. They have a Stop Saw and someone’s accidentally ran their finger into the blade twice in the past 3 months. Blade brake works as advertised!
AC
I’ll add that one of the two blade breakers was very experienced. The other, not so experienced.
Zane
This jackass obviously did this on purpose and I would recommend removing it from your tools blog asap
Zane
Notice he looks at the camera immediately after the “accident”.
James
100% staged. Even the way he approaches the blade from the side and not the top because he knows he’s being a jackass and no doubt is a little bit scared (I hope!).
Ross
When I bought my sawstop as I was leaving the working waved so I could see he was missing a finger. Turns out he was prepping material for a class after hours and a cop walked by; didn’t knock or anything, but it distracted him for a second; that’s all it took.
kent_skinner
Not going to give that guy any monitization or views, but I’d avoid watching any video on tablesaws with somebody wearing baggy, long sleeves.
Nate
Apparently, the monetization for YouTube Shorts is very low. My is understanding is that lots of “content creators” are working hard to figure out whether the increased engagement from them is worth the lower monetization than the longer videos. Regardless, I still find it weird that someone would want to put so much of themselves out on video.
Tool Junkie
I have a Sawstop; however, it doesn’t make me complacent.
I still use my bandsaw, if its safer.
As far as the video, I saw that one. It wasn’t as dumb as this other person, cutting a round on a jig!:
https://youtube.com/shorts/ZCfP9c8WYdY
ITCD
Some time ago someone on Reddit posted a pic of their blade with cart stuck to it, speaking like they had joined some sort of club by tripping it within 1 week of owning it.
I think they were expecting high fives and upvotes, instead they got absolutely flogged by other users that just because a safety system exists doesn’t mean it is a challenge or otherwise “cool” to go checking those safety systems. Common sense and proper operation always rule the day, the safety features are the backup to that.
David
Well…. He protects his fingers with the SawStop but he must not have gotten the memo about protecting his eyes with some glasses. Pretty sure you don’t grow any more of those either!
Daniel L
Mmm.
Risk compensation theory. When used to argue against safety features, it tends to strike me as a sort of moralistic argument feebly masking a clear financial incentive.
Lots of chichago school of economics types that I tend to disagree with on a host of other topics as well. Same folks that get up in arms about “moral hazard”.
Honestly, the tech is expensive. This is true. Then again, hospital visits are expensive. Severed limbs, quite expensive. Disability is expensive. Death? Really expensive, it turns out.
I’m curious how the balance works out, in macroeconomic terms, when all table saws are equipped with saw stop-type tech. For the individual, all it takes is one ER visit…depending on one’s health insurance…to make up the difference.
Bill Doorley
Suggesting that SawStop(tm)-type protection will encourage bad habits is just stupid. It’s like saying that mandatory seat belt laws encourage reckless driving. I was curious about this, so I looked it up. (Thank you, Google.) Sure enough, a 2001 study published by the Harvard Law School looked into this exact question. The result? Here’s a quote from the abstract:
“Testing the compensating behavior theory, which suggests that seat belt use also has an adverse effect on fatalities by encouraging careless driving, we find that this theory is not supported by the data. ”
In other words, seat belts save lives and do not make people reckless. I predict the same would be true for any (sensible) table saw regulations.
Kimber Janney
First question- why was this being recorded in the first place?
I purchased a SawStop several years ago after cutting into my left thumb in a split-second moment of carelessness. Barely nicked into the bone and drove myself to the emergency room. Overall, medical cost was more than cost of SawStop. I had been using a tablesaw for over 35 years without a blade contact injury. It only took a fraction of a second for injury to occur. We purchased a compact site SawStop a little over a year ago; it seems well worth it to protect the carpenters working on site.
Paul Edward Hacker
Trust me we all have done things that make no sense while working … example .. how many have cut with a torch or ground with a grinder … knowing it was hot and pick up the hot part without thinking? … I’ll raise my hand a few times in my lifetime anyone else?
HTG
Safety devices and guards aren’t there for when you are concentrating. And humans just can’t concentrate always. I’m all for safety devices that enhance safety.