A few years ago I wrote about some Woodworkers Guild of America spam mailings that had frustrated me.
Now, at a new address, new Woodworkers Guild of America junk mailings started coming through.
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The spammy and deceptive mailings were the same and again started off with the Woodworkers Guild of America sending over an unsolicited DVD.
Then, a few weeks later, the Guild sent over another mailing saying that I should return the DVD in a postage-paid envelope or pay up some cash for the DVD and additional video selections. The supplied envelope is not postage-paid, and requires a stamp.
In large print, the Woodworking Guild mailings urge that I furnish payment for the DVD and continued subscription perks, or return the DVD.
Only in small print somewhere, possibly with the first mailing, it says that the video was sent without request and can be consider a free gift or discarded.
I expect to receive a third mailing requesting that I either return the DVD or pay up to the amount of $12-15 or so.
This is how the Woodworkers Guild of America works – they send junk mail and then use deceptive marketing tactics to force subscriptions onto woodworkers. A lot of woodworkers probably discarded the DVD right away as I did. The Woodworkers Guild of America probably knows this, which is why they offer two options – that recipients return the DVD (with postage required) or pay for the DVD and a subscription for additional videos.
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I don’t have any woodworking magazine subscriptions, which means they must have purchased or acquired my contact information from another source. Woodworking retailers and suppliers are the first to come to mind.
This seems to be a universal mystery. There are plenty of woodworking forum posts that start off with “I didn’t register with the Woodworkers Guild of America, and I didn’t request this DVD, so how the heck did they get my address and personal information?!”
In my case, the suspects are: Rockler, Lee Valley, and Woodcraft. I have ordered from all three stores, and all three have my contact information for catalog mailings.
Potential Woodcraft-WWGOA Affiliation
While writing up today’s post about Woodcraft’s Forstner drill bit sale, I noticed that a free 2-month membership to the Woodworkers Guild of America is included with every purchase. A similar message appears in the shopping cart.
And there doesn’t seem to be any way to opt-out from the membership. (Update: Woodcraft says that the WWGOA subscription, via email, is opt-in only, with customers having to supply WWGOA with a special code. That doesn’t mean they won’t still sell your mailing address, see below for details.)
So thank you Woodcraft, for selling my personal contact information to the horribly deceptive junk-mailing useless company known as the Woodworkers Guild of America. (Update: Woodcraft denies having supplied WWGOA with customers’ addresses, but would not offer respond as to whether they are selling mailing lists to intermediate partners.)
I hope Woodcraft received a lot of money from the Woodworkers Guild of America for my personal information, because they’re not going to see another penny from me for a long, long time. (Update: Even if they did not sell my contact information to the WWGOA directly, I am not yet convinced that they did not sell it to a 3rd party company that in turn sold/supplied it to WWGOA.)
Right now, I *believe* Woodcraft could still be the company who sold my personal contact information to the Woodworkers Guild of America, or a 3rd party intermediate marketing company. They’re also the only retailer who has my personal contact information that has a visible connection to and affiliation with the Woodworkers Guild of America.
It might be that Woodcraft is not the company that sold my private information to the Woodworkers Guild of America. But if they don’t want me or others associating them with deceptive, junky, and spammy unsolicited Woodworkers Guild of America mailings, then they shouldn’t affiliate themselves with the company and their practices.
Update: It now seems likely that Woodcraft, Rockler, and/or another company sells names and addresses to an intermediate company who then sold the contact information to the Woodworkers Guild of America.
It seems most plausible that companies are drawing up mailing lists based on printed catalog signups. Even if Woodcraft is not selling such a list to WWGOA directly, it is possible that such a list changes hands one or more times through 3rd party buyers and marketing companies. (Update: Woodcraft does provide mailing lists to 3rd party companies, just not WWGOA directly.)
Response from Woodcraft:
Woodcraft does not give or sell email addresses to Woodworkers Guild of America. Woodcraft is offering free access to the Guild’s premium content with orders, and we provide a unique offer code upon checkout. To take advantage of the offer, you must go to their website and sign up. At that point, you are on their email list, but have the option to unsubscribe at any time.
Emphasis added is my own.
I then asked: Can you affirm with absolute confidence and accuracy that Woodcraft does not supply the names and addresses of their customers and printed catalog recipients to the WWGOA, or to other 3rd party companies that might be relaying this information to the WWGOA?
And they said:
Woodcraft does not give email or postal addresses to WWGOA.
And then we asked: Would you be able to clarify as to whether Woodcraft sells or supplies names and addresses to ANY 3rd party company that might in turn be selling or supplying lists to WWGOA?
There was no answer, so I Nancy at Woodcraft an email, essentially asking for assurance that Woodcraft does not sell mailing lists to 3rd party companies who might in turn be supplying them to WWGOA.
She evaded around the question and repeated the same as before:
To confirm, Woodcraft does not rent/sell our email names or our postal addresses to WWGOA. For more information on Woodcraft’s privacy policy, please visit our link online.
Which says:
We occasionally make our customer list (postal mailing list only) available to carefully screened companies whose products may interest you.
In other words, Woodcraft is not selling mailing lists directly to the Woodworkers Guild of America, but could be selling them to companies that compile or resell lists to the WWGOA.
I asked multiple times whether the WWGOA is getting their hands on mailing lists via Woodcraft partners multiple times, and Woodcraft has NOT given me a straight answer. They did point towards their privacy policy which says Woodcraft DOES provide their mailing list to 3rd parties.
Apparently Rockler does the same:
Occasionally, we make a portion of our mailing list available to respectable organizations that may interest our customers.
Lee Valley does NOT do this:
Please note that we do not rent out our customer names. You will not receive mail from others as a result of buying from us.
James C
That’s bad news; thanks for bringing this to your readers’ attention. I really like Woodcraft, but selling contact info like this (if that’s what they’re doing here) is unacceptable.
Albert
I hate that kind of sh*t! Too bad the return postage for the DVD isn’t paid. I’d tape that DVD to an old tire then send it back to them.
Stuart
That’s probably why they stopped including postage-paid envelopes. Back when I received my first Woodworkers Guild of America spam mail a few years ago, the envelope also required postage. Otherwise I would have used it to send them some unsolicited junk mail in return.
John S
They just lost my future business as well.
Michael Quinlan
Retailers should be smart enough to know that slimy practices like this will come back to bite them in the @$$ in the long run, especially when such practices are easily exposed to the public in blogs such as this, or in consumer complaint forums, and customers buy elsewhere as a result.
For a long time I’ve been using Gmail with my own domain, and a “catch all” email box combined with filters, to allow me to create custom email addresses on the fly when registering with any new service or web site. When I start getting unsolicited junk from somewhere, this makes it very easy to identify the source of my personal information. For example, I might use [email protected] for here; if I start getting spam to that address, I’ll know who sold me out. I believe LifeHacker has an article on how to do this with a standard Gmail account.
There may be an equivalent tactic for physical mail, but I’m not aware of one.
Stuart
With gmail, add a + after your email address. For instance, [email protected] would be sent to [email protected]. I use this sometimes as well.
Here on ToolGuyd, I am the one and only person that ever sees commenters or subscribers’ email addresses. Most people use their everyday or consistent throwaway email addresses, and a handful of people change it up all the time. Jesse’s email addresses tend to be the most amusing.
I don’t mind when people use fake email addresses to leave comments, but it sometimes complicates giveaways.
Richard
Sadly some bastards have caught on to that and won’t allow you to use an email address with the + anymore.
I’ve started using opayq.com – it’s a browser addon that generates a new email address for every site and forwards your email to you from that retailer. If you start getting spammed, you click a link at the top of the email and opayq turns the email off.
Napoleon
Thanks, I’ll give that website a shot. I was at a point of creating a new email for every for new online store that I purchased from.
Rich
Thank you Stuart for brining this up. Woodcraft certainly lost my business.
These tactics are in bad practice and make no mistake, I will tell others about this as well.
Jim Felt
Wow. Who would have expected a “legitimate” retailer to be this uncaring or at least unaware. And that’s giving them the benefit of the doubt. This kind of ugly knowledge goes viral really really quickly. I’m glad you noticed and “reported” it. Now are you going to cancel your order? Kidding.
#woodcraft.
#badwoodcraft
#woodcrafterror
10-4
jesse
A federal law was passed some time ago that mandated that recipients of unsolicited items were not obligated to return them. This ended the common practice of dubious companies sending something out unsolicited and then demanding payment.
Stuart
I tossed away the mailing, but remembering seeing fine print in the first mailer that said there is no obligation to pay or return the unsolicited DVD and that it can be considered a gift.
The latest mailing did not mention this noticeably and might not have mentioned it at all. What they send as a first follow-up looks very much like a bill and only gives two options – return the disc or pay up for it and future mailings.
Michael Quinlan
There’s no need to keep the original mailing, or document the fine print in any way. According to the US Postal Inspection Service, you, the consumer, may only legally be sent two types of merchandise through the mail without your consent or agreement: 1) Free samples which are clearly and conspicuously marked as such, and 2) Merchandise mailed by a charitable organization that is soliciting contributions.
If you do not wish to pay for unsolicited merchandise or make a donation to a charity sending such an item, you may do one of three things (in each case, by law, you have no obligation to the sender): 1) If you have not opened the package, you may mark it “Return to Sender,” and the Postal Service will return it with no additional postage charged to you, 2) If you open the package and don’t like what you find, you may throw it away, or 3) If you open the package and like what you find, you may keep it for free. In this instance, “finders-keepers” applies unconditionally.
For more information: https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/investigations/MailFraud/fraudschemes/othertypes/UnsolicitedFraud.aspx
Jerry
I know I bought stuff from Rockler several times, and never was on any junk mail list, just to bring up someone who didint do that to me.
Stuart
That doesn’t mean Rockler is innocent. I get a lot of random woodworking flyers and solicitations from companies I never heard of before. There’s no way to tell who is selling out information.
I believe Woodcraft sold my info to the Woodworking Guild of America because of their current “free 2-month subscription” offer. I am assuming Woodcraft’s relationship with the Woodworkers Guild of America goes beyond this.
jesse
One technique I heard about long ago to track where junk mail is coming from is to use different middle initials in your name as a code when you order online. If you order something from a specific company using a unique middle initial in your name on the mailing address, you will know where future junk mail originated.
The Direct Marketing Association also offers some kind of opt-out program, but I don’t know if I would have much faith in it: https://www.dmachoice.org. Who knows, you might wind up with more junk mail. It wouldn’t surprise me.
But its me!
Woodworkers Guild reminds me of the Handyman club of some sort that would send junk mail several years ago, often with some dubious plastic item, like a screw size guage. I would toss them of course, since I had an old gauge I trusted. Too bad it isn’t postpaid, like others have noted. Probably makes no difference to their bottom line, but mailing stuff back with postpaid at least makes it feel better!
But its me!
Should have included this in my post, but I only have two brain cells… This stuff always bugs me because they rely on taking advantage of recipients being responsible. Then if that doesn’t work, they try making you feel like you will end up in trouble for not coughing up payment. And Woodcraft has never been all that great in my book, price and selection-wise!
Mike47
Thanks for the heads-up. I too will refrain from patronizing Woodcraft in the future. I hate spam mailings!
Lenny
I got the very same DVD last year along with the follow-up letters asking for payment. Luckily my wife asked me about it before she mailed the check when she was paying the bills.
Jimmie
I’ve received similar deceptive mailings from Woodworker’s Guild a few years ago. I was tempted to hand over the mailings to my state attorney general’s office along with a complaint about deceptive tactics. Alas I never got around to it. Think I’ll follow through next time I receive one.
I’ve subscribed to a number of woodworking magazines over the years and have bought things from Woodcraft, Rockler, MLCS and a number of other places so I couldn’t nail down which one ratted me out. Sounds like Woodcraft may have been the culprit. It’s a shame because I like my local Woodcraft store.
Pete
Stuart, I actually think I got my DVD as a result of a Rockler order. I just got the empty threats letter from WGOA last week telling me to pay up or else. I looked at the letter simultaneously dumbfounded and amused. I have also ordered from both Rockler and Woodcraft. Im pretty sure my most recent Rockler order had WGOA fliers in the box. I also seem to think the DVD came shortly after a previous Rockler order.
While I’d like to say I wont buy from them again, because i do NOT condone this nonsense, they service a niche market with some truly unique items that cant be bought elsewhere. Oh well, Guess I’ll just install a spam mailbox next to my regular mailbox and ask the postal lady to filter out the junk mail for me 😛
CB
Stuart,
Thanks for the heads up. What a bummer! I was just about to order the Forstner set but I really hate this kind of underhanded guerrilla business practices.
I have been purchasing quite a bit from Rockler (mail & store) over the last 5 months but have yet to receive any junk mail (snail mail nor email) and that’s just the way I like it. I have not ordered anything online thru Woodcraft
Maybe in your Forstner sale article that you should post an FYI about your suspicions and that it may possibly happen if you order from Woodcraft?
Having said that, we all need to be careful about making accusations without facts but I really do hate junk mail that requires me to waist energy on. It might also be dependent on which State you live in because of local laws (or lack of) on unsolicited mailings.
Maybe these big discounted item offers are subsidized by third parties so the seller can better afford (not see red) to make such offers?
We should all contact Woodcraft and ask them if there are party/involved giving out info to Guild of America and that we want to be given the immediate option to opt out from 3rd party junk when ordering anything from Woodcraft.
CB
Oh and I forgot to say Thank You for posting both articles. I enjoy visiting your site.
Stuart
Having said that, we all need to be careful about making accusations without facts…
I am very careful. If you look closely, I emphasize that, due to Woodcraft’s current visible arrangement with Woodworkers Guild of America, I *believe* it was them who furnished my personal contact information to them.
I have no proof, and also commented that it is possible Woodcraft is not the culprit. The fact that they’re now offering trial membership to the Woodworkers Guild of America with every purchase makes them somewhat culpable in my eyes.
Back in high school, I told my mother about a friend who I realized was stealing from the small bodega we visited after school on the way to the train station every day. One day a bottle of Snapple I didn’t see him pay for fell down his pants leg and shattered on the ground. She said something along the lines of associate with thieves and you become an accomplice by association.
Woodcraft is partnering with Woodworkers Guild of America for this offer, so it possible they partnered with them in other ways. I have yet not seen any visible relationship between Rockler or Lee Valley and the Woodworkers Guild of America.
Even if Woodcraft is not the one that is selling our contact information to the Woodworkers Guild of America, they are still supporting them with their current arrangement.
Maybe in your Forstner sale article that you should post an FYI about your suspicions and that it may possibly happen if you order from Woodcraft?
I am okay discussing my suspicions that Woodcraft furnished the Woodworkers Guild of America with my contact information, and it is true that I will avoid spending money there given Woodcraft’s choice to support and promote this organization.
But even though I suspect it was Woodcraft that sold or supplied my contact information to the Woodworkers Guild of America, it might not have been because of an order.
I have not ordered from Woodcraft or Rockler in a while, but I did give them my new address in order to receive printed catalogs.
When you sign up for a catalog on Woodcraft’s site, they say they won’t share your email address with anyone. They say nothing about selling your name and physical address. The same goes for Rockler.
Even if Woodcraft isn’t the one who sold/gave my name and address to the Woodworkers Guild of America, *someone* did. I can count on one hand how many woodworking companies have my current address. Of those, Woodcraft is the only one I have seen to have a visible relationship with the company.
Cyley Mirus
Always keep in mind: If the mail isn’t certified then it was never received.
rob
On that note too, if you receive a “free” item you didn’t order you are not required to return it when they ask for $. I believe since the DVDs were sent out on a trial basis they are yours to keep since you never agreed to join their “Club” or shared your credit card info with them. They can come after you all they want but you never agreed to join nor did you give them any payment issue. Many mail order companies are famous for the “opt out” clause rather than “opt in” to join. I know many State Attorney Generals have said for years the items they send you to join are yours to keep even if they demand payment, being you never agreed to join.
Cameron
HA! thats what they get for messing with a guy like stuart with considerable influence in the tool community
Richard
I really hope it’s not Lee Valley; that would shatter my perception of them being one of the most honest retailers out there. :/
jeff
if they sent me something in the mail, without me asking to, and then asked me to send it back to them or id have to pay.
I would do neither, there is no contract, there is no signature, there is also no proof that you ever received it. I would ignore it. I dont respond to blackmail, or fruad.
Stuart
Me neither. But a lot of people do fall for it, otherwise the Woodworkers Guild of America wouldn’t continue the practice. I don’t remember ever seeing forum or community posts where woodworkers say they subscribed to the guid out of enjoyment for the content. All I ever hear about Woodworkers Guild of America is how they send out unsolicited mailings and videos.
Dave
For what it’s worth, I’ve purchased items from Rockler and Lee Valley, but never Woodcraft, and I’ve never received the junk mail you’re talking about. I think I may have *almost* purchased something from Woodcraft but backed out when I saw something during checkout regarding some subscription (I could be remembering wrong). That doesn’t make Woodcraft the culprit for sure, but it’s good enough for me.
Thanks for posting this information, and all of your other quality posts!
Esther
I think mom said ‘If you associate with dogs, you’ll get fleas,” but who can remember?
firefly
First thanks Stuart for this post, this kind of deceptive business practice always bother me greatly. I am very happy to see that you and most other people here are fairly knowledgeable of the law that you are not required to send unsolicited mail back . I have a few good friends in business school and this is one of the thing that I learned from them.
With that in mind I see two thing from this article, first Woodworkers Guild of America is a scumbag and they deserve to be notified to the FTC.
Secondly there is a clear visible tie between Woodcraft and Woodworkers Guild of America. However I wouldn’t be so quick of boycotting Woodcraft all together because of it. Unless we have taken the initiative to report Woodworkers Guild of America to them and they refused to do anything about it (either influence their partner to engage in ethical business practice or serve the tie all together). All in all, IMHO, they deserve a second chance.
Stuart
I’m not encouraging that anyone boycott or blacklist Woodcraft. But, for me, their current promotion of the Woodworkers Guild of America makes me very highly reluctant to give them any of my business. It’s not a permanent decision.
The first mailing always has clear wording on the back saying that the user can consider the product a free gift. The followups are less clear and what probably cause the most scare-induced signups, as by that time most people have already discarded the DVD.
firefly
Thanks Stuart, while it’s clear that you didn’t encourage anyone to boycott or blacklist Woodcraft. It seem like a sensible thing to do and it also seem that a large number of the comments gravitate toward such action. So I just want to play the devil advocate and warn against it without giving the company a chance to take corrective action.
Personally I like to give others a second chance but definitely not a third. Once they have a chance to take corrective action and they don’t without any sensible reasoning I will boycott them for life.
Allen
I don’t know. If this type of thing helps keep the prices at Woodcraft lower, it really doesn’t bother me.
I can’t see how this Woodworkers Guild thing and groups like it can keep doing this stuff, how many folks really end up sending them money ? Older folks I imagine, and I couldn’t base my business on taking advantage of the old or the folks who are so easily duped.
I hate to see a business be blacklisted for such things, they may have traded lists with some other respectable group, and it fell into the wrong hands. Lesson learned I guess.
jesse
Apparently Wood Magazine has some relationship with Woodworkers Guild of America: http://www.wwgoa.com.
Stuart
I believe I have gotten Wood Magazine mailings a few times as well, despite not having any relationship with them. They shouldn’t have my contact information either. Maybe WWGOA sold my address to Wood Magazine, or the same company (Woodcraft?) sold it to both.
Al
Handyman’s club pestered me for 2-3 years, until I finally wrote back and said that I would contact the Attny. General in my state. This was a few years ago. I have wondered just how many mailings I rec’d from them..a lot!
Allen says:
“I can’t see how this Woodworkers Guild thing and groups like it can keep doing this stuff, how many folks really end up sending them money ? Older folks I imagine”
My wife, for many years, worked as a hairdresser in nursing homes. she would often comment on how people wanted to make sure that she got paid, but said that they didn’t have any money.
Some of of these people haven’t had any contact with money for years. Some had their minds intact and some didn’t. They rec’d an allowance every month, and the homes would keep it in an acct. for them, to be used for purchases and whatever.
My point being that these people had it ingrained in them, that they had to have the money to purchase things. I can see where some older folks, living at home, would certainly pay these people. They didn’t want to owe anyone.
CB
After a little digging around, it looks like Woodworkers Guild is owned by TN Marketing, LLC and they have a large complaint list on BBB for the same exact reasons (http://www.bbb.org/minnesota/business-reviews/marketing-programs-and-services/tn-marketing-in-wayzata-mn-24000741/complaints).
Wood Magazine is deep in the sheets with TN Marketing and Woodworkers Guild.
If you receive a DVD from them, under no circumstance feel like you have to send them any money or need to act on it, just consider it a gift/trash. It’s just a money making scam being directed at you.
Woodcraft needs to be contacted by as many people as possible telling them to stop being a party to this scam and to stop sharing there customers personal information.
I think this is one the biggest no-no’s for internet businesses.
Phil
Hot Rod magazine did a similar trick with me a few years ago. I was sent an unsolicited DVD that was part of a new series of instructional videos. Like your mailing, it had lots of options to continue the subscription as well as a return envelope for the disc (but not the box, which was more expensive to return) and a tiny blurb stating the disc was a gift and not requiring return. The annoyance started when I got several followups demanding the return of the disc or subscribing to the expensive series, with each appearing more “serious” than the last. They lost a subscriber over that.
David
firefly says:
So I just want to play the devil advocate and warn against it without giving the company a chance to take corrective action.
Not trying to flame, just disagreeing with the second chance and why:
Corrective action will not get any of our personal information out of the hands of the companies sending out all of this BS. I do not know of many companies that just go into practices like this blindly. They typically see a way to make fast and easy $$ without much regard to who or how it effects anyone else. The simple fact that one of the posters above was able to search and find out how many complaints that have been registered, lets me know that the companies that associate themselves with WWGOA either didn’t do the needed research or did and decided to go for the $$. Either way it’s a bad business practice and one that will cause me to take my business elsewhere for life.
firefly
You are taking a stand and it’s one that I can respect.
I don’t know what your experience is but I am an engineer by trade, working in the corporate world. I also running my own business on the side. From my personal experience with almost every single large corporation I can assure you that not every option is always vested thoroughly. After all not everyone is competence or responsible, even the one that do make also make mistake. Corporation are run by human after all… Base on my entrepreneurship experience running/managing a company is a hard job. It’s not always possible to hire good people. So again mistake happen.
So when corporation made mistake all I hope for is that they really fess up and be honest about it. Furthermore I also want them to take the extra step to set thing right. The one that try to cover up never get a second chance from me.
As far as corrective action doesn’t stop our information from the bad companies that already have them. Truth of the matter is what is done is already done. The corporation, IMO, should apologize to the customer, serve the relationship and do their part of publicizing the matter so other company won’t fall into the same trap. As consumer I believe we are responsible as well to notify friend/family and report unlawful and unethical behavior to government agency.
Anyway I believe that if we care enough we can make a different, especially when a large number of people care enough we can definitely make a different… It’s always easy to point out the problem but the bigger question is always have we done our part to be part of the solution?
Nancy Miller
Hello Stuart,
Your post was just brought to my attention. Woodcraft does not give or sell email addresses to Woodworkers Guild of America. Woodcraft is offering free access to the Guild’s premium content with orders, and we provide a unique offer code upon checkout. To take advantage of the offer, you must go to their website and sign up. At that point, you are on their email list, but have the option to unsubscribe at any time.
We thought our customers would be happy to receive free content, and have had positive feedback from our in-store customers about the offer. I am disappointed to read about your experience with the Woodworkers Guild of America, and will address your issues with them.
Our goal is to provide the best possible woodworking experience for our customers in all areas. Thank you for your comments.
Nancy Miller
Head of Digital Retail
Stuart
Hi Nancy,
Thank you for taking the time to respond!
You mention explicitly that Woodcraft does not give or sell email addresses to the Woodworkers Guild of America.
What about postal addresses collected through online sales or printed catalog requests?
Woodcraft is offering free trial-basis access to the Guild’s premium content, but what is the nature of Woodcraft’s affiliation with the Woodworkers Guild of America? Is Woodcraft being paid to offer this to their customers? Is Woodcraft providing information about customers to the Woodworkers Guild of America as part of the arrangement?
The whole issue is not about email subscriptions, but physical mailing list subscriptions.
I never opted in to receive WWGOA’s DVDs, subscription offers, or their follow-up letters urging that I pay for or return the DVD. They’re getting woodworkers’ names and mailing addresses without explicit permission and sending unsolicited DVDs and payment requests.
Can you affirm with absolute confidence and accuracy that Woodcraft does not supply the names and addresses of their customers and printed catalog recipients to the WWGOA, or to other 3rd party companies that might be relaying this information to the WWGOA?
CB
Stuart,
Those are good questions, it’s good to see that Woodcraft has noticed your article and responded, lets hope they get back to answering your questions and put this to bed. I would like to perceive Woodcraft in high regard but TN Marketing is shady with deceptive tactics illustrated by the Better business Bureau.
It looks like your article and this subject is being discussed and gaining traction on the lumberjocks forum.
I can’t imagine Woodcraft went into partnership and affiliated themselves with a company and did not do their homework/due diligence.
It so far it appears Woodworkers Guild/ TN Marketing, LLC has done the same thing in publications related to auto enthusiasts, gun owners and religious followers so it’s pretty wide spread.
Stuart
I’ll see if I can find the LumberJocks thread later when I have a chance.
This issue of WWGOA DVD mailings and somewhat insistent-worded follow-ups is not new.
I suspected Woodcraft because of their current affiliation with WWGOA. They’re obvious friends, which makes Woodcraft the prime suspect at the moment.
If it’s not Woodcraft, then the list of other possible culprits is still very short. When I moved, Woodcraft, Rockler, Lee Valley, and possibly MLCS were the only woodworking companies that I gave my new address to via catalog request signups. Of those companies, Woodcraft is the only one I see in bed with the Woodworkers Guild of America.
In addition to WWGOA junk mailings, I have received unsolicited flyers, catalogs, and offers from other woodworking dealers and publications. Again, it comes down to Woodcraft, Rockler, Lee Valley, and MLCS. The only explanation is that one or more of these companies are selling lists of names and addresses to 3rd party woodworking-related companies directly or to 3rd party marketing companies who then sell lists to others.
Nancy Miller
Stuart,
Woodcraft does not give email or postal addresses to WWGOA.
Nancy
Stuart
Thanks! Would you be able to clarify as to whether Woodcraft sells or supplies names and addresses to ANY 3rd party company that might in turn be selling or supplying lists to WWGOA?
Mike
I wouldn’t be so quick to blame anyone on this mailing. A couple of year ago we move to a new address in a new city. The first piece of mail we received was for my mother-in-law who didn’t even live with us. God only knows how we got that.
Just be so damn quick to place blame on someone or a company till really have all of the facts. You’re only guessing it was Woodcraft and that’s not fair to them!!!
Stuart
Regarding your mother-in-law, that mailing probably resulted from some link your wife had with her through banking or credit cards.
The WWGOA targets woodworkers and acquires their names and addresses through indirect means. I am now of the very strong belief that they acquired my address through woodworking retailer catalog signup, and Woodcraft is the prime suspect since they have an open and active promotional arrangement with WWGOA right now.
WWGOA mailings aren’t anything new.
Since posting about the WWGOA junk mailing a few years ago, I have received quite a few emails from equally grumpy woodworkers who received these mailings. They do a quick Google search, find my post, and think that I can somehow help them avoid these mailings. I cannot.
The only way to stop the mailings is if woodworking companies stop selling our names and addresses to WWGOA directly or through 3rd party companies.
Woodcraft is supporting the WWGOA’s tactics by partnering with them in any capacity, which still sours my feelings towards Woodcraft in general.
Nancy from Woodcraft is choosing her words carefully.
I asked: Can you affirm with absolute confidence and accuracy that Woodcraft does not supply the names and addresses of their customers and printed catalog recipients to the WWGOA, or to other 3rd party companies that might be relaying this information to the WWGOA?
She said: Woodcraft does not give email or postal addresses to WWGOA.
Even if Woodcraft does not sell or supply WWGOA with names or postal addresses does not necessarily mean they’re not selling them to a 3rd party company who then passes names and addresses to WWGOA.
Richard R.
Maybe we should just take the DVD to our local Woodcraft Store and give it to them and have them return it in the Postage not provided return mailer.
If enough local stores got them brought in I am sure the Owners would contact Woodcraft Management about it.
Benjamin E.
Hmm, this thread is a year old, and I find myself in possession of a WWGOA DVD only a month after making an online purchase from Woodcraft. I don’t recall asking for their catalog either, but, here it is! I guess the dollars are still worth more than the customer’s affiliation.